Podcast Summary

Always Be Testing, Episode #113

Title: How Bad Incentives Quietly Break Affiliate Programs
Host: Tye DeGrange
Guest: Ziggy Kopetti (Head of Affiliate, Woot)
Date: January 27, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Tye DeGrange sits down with seasoned affiliate and performance marketing expert Ziggy Kopetti to debunk affiliate marketing myths, analyze how incentives and measurement challenges shape affiliate programs, explore the effects of AI on the industry, and share hands-on experiments and learnings from managing some of the largest brands in the space. The discussion is energized, candid, and insight-packed, ideal for anyone in growth, performance marketing, or affiliate management seeking actionable wisdom and new perspectives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Debunking Affiliate Marketing Myths

• Common Misconceptions:

  • "People get wrong more than they get right about affiliate marketing." (Ziggy, 01:16)
  • Myths include 'last-click only attribution,' 'affiliates just steal traffic,' and 'loyalty publishers don’t drive incrementality' (01:16-01:56).
  • Cost perceptions: Affiliates seen as expensive but often are not if managed properly.

• Reality Check:

  • If managed correctly, affiliate can be a highly profitable, incremental, and strategic channel.
  • Success relies on holistic integration and innovation within brands.

2. Lessons from Brand-Side Leadership (Buy.com, Columbia Sportswear)

• Buy.com Launch:

  • "It was one of CJ's first dedicated teams for an advertiser program...a big thing." (Ziggy, 03:38)
  • Early affiliate days highlighted the value of innovation, risk-taking, and internal brand alignment.
  • No fear in creative tests—"willing to throw some money at things just to see if it worked." (07:19)

• Columbia Sportswear Experimentation:

  • Started with liquidating excess inventory (socks) exclusively through affiliate channel (04:53-05:30).
  • “That program just grew and grew…merchandisers were buying inventory specifically for the affiliate channel.” (05:30)
  • Affiliate delivered higher margins vs. wholesale channels and caught executive attention.
  • Key Insight: Strategic, exclusive offers in affiliate can unlock new value streams.

3. Evolution of the Publisher/Partner Ecosystem

• Shift in Value:
  • Transition from primarily coupon and loyalty sites to content creators, micro-influencers, and content commerce (08:32-09:34).
  • “Affiliate can drive traffic all the way through the consumer shopping funnel…engage at every level.” (Ziggy, 09:31)
  • Measurement of success increasingly includes both awareness and conversion.

4. The Woot Affiliate Program & Brand Playfulness

• Quirky Branding:
  • Woot’s irreverent landing pages serve as a deliberate filter and attract the right partners (10:05-13:39).
  • Host compares Woot's ethos to early Zappos for boldness and assertiveness.
  • "It draws in the partners you want to gather." (Tye, 13:19)

5. Building Trust & Authenticity

• Modern Brand-Building:
  • Younger demographics demand brands with values and authenticity (14:21).
  • Woot leverages content commerce, influencer marketing, and Amazon's legitimacy to build trust with new and loyal users (14:21-16:36).
  • “Micro-influencers have been probably the largest success story for us.” (Ziggy, 16:50)

6. Attribution, Incrementality, and Testing

• Complexities and How to Win:
  • Need to segment partners by their role in the funnel: discovery, influence, and conversion (17:27-18:30).
  • Evaluation of data must consider both new vs. returning customers, and time-to-purchase.
  • “Run holdout tests…adjust commission structures…that’s a good way to learn who drives true incrementality.” (19:30)
  • Testing is an ongoing, essential part of affiliate optimization.

7. AI’s Impact on Affiliate Marketing

• Optimism & Caution:
  • "AI will fundamentally change how affiliate marketing is operated, but not why it works." (Ziggy, 22:35)
  • Predicts AI will automate matching of offers, segmenting, and commission optimization, making programs more scalable and measurable (mainly reducing manual work, not relationships).
  • AI likely to democratize 'big brand' tools, enabling small creators to act like large publishers (23:20-24:45).
  • Hope that relationship-driven aspects remain despite increasing automation.

8. Experiments & Inspirations

• Notable Tests:
  • Liquidation of inventory via affiliate channel at Columbia (28:24)
  • Strategic focus on micro-influencer activation for user acquisition (28:54).
  • Testing new customer pixels & commission strategies at Woot for incremental growth (29:12).

9. Personal Insights & Book Recommendations

• Ziggy’s real name: “Zagaine” (with a T at the front—Tzigane). Means "gypsy rose" or "one who wanders." (31:11)
• Current book picks:
  • The Women by Kristin Hannah (“fantastic, intense, amazing picture of women nurses in Vietnam”)
  • Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghey – “beautiful book—great on audio.”
  • Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins – “a good framework for personal and professional focus” (32:23-33:48).
• Amazon’s internal push on AI for productivity and strategy (30:10-30:50).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Affiliate Myths:

  “People get wrong more than they get right about affiliate marketing.”
  — Ziggy, 01:16

• On Affiliate as a Growth Engine:

  “Program just grew, grew, grew…merchandisers were buying inventory specifically for the affiliate channel—which is pretty phenomenal.”
  — Ziggy, 05:30

• On Creative Risk-Taking:

  “They were willing to test anything and everything and see what sticks—the support was there.”
  — Ziggy, 07:19

• On Content & Publisher Evolution:

  “Affiliate can drive traffic all the way through…customers engage at every level.”
  — Ziggy, 09:31

• On Trust:

  “Customers want to shop with companies that they trust, that they know are quality, that…stand for something.”
  — Ziggy, 14:21

• On Micro-Influencers:

  “In the five years I’ve been here, [micro-influencers] have been probably the largest success story for us.”
  — Ziggy, 16:50

• On Attribution:

  “Segment your partners by role…look at data—new vs. returning customers—then test, test, test.”
  — Ziggy, 17:27-19:10

• On AI’s Future in Affiliate:

  “AI will fundamentally change how affiliate marketing is operated, but not why it works.”
  — Ziggy, 22:35

Important Timestamps

• 01:16 — Affiliate program misconceptions
• 04:53 — Columbia Sportswear affiliate experiments
• 07:19 — Brand-side creative support & risk-taking
• 09:31 — Evolution of content publishers in affiliate
• 13:19 — Woot’s quirky brand & filtering for partners
• 14:21 — Building trust and authentic brand partnerships
• 16:50 — Micro-influencers as Woot’s growth driver
• 17:27-19:10 — Segmentation, attribution, and holdout testing
• 22:35 — AI’s impact and future of affiliate operations
• 28:24 — Success stories from affiliate testing
• 31:11 — Ziggy’s real name origin story
• 32:23-33:48 — Book recommendations

Conclusion

This episode shines as a practical, honest, and wide-ranging guide to what smart affiliate and performance marketers should focus on in 2026—from debunking dated myths, through tactical, data-driven optimization, to how AI and authentic partnership will define the next chapter. Ziggy Kopetti’s experience with Woot, Columbia, and agency leadership provides rich, real-world lessons underscored by a human touch and a willingness to experiment and adapt.

Connect with Ziggy Kopetti: [LinkedIn – Ziggy Kopetti]
Recommended Reading:

• The Women by Kristin Hannah
• Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghey
• Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

For full context and more insights, listen to the episode on your preferred podcast platform. Skip the intros, get right to the actionable content.