Podcast Summary: Always Be Testing #76 – Unlocking B2B SaaS Growth: A Partner-Led Strategy with Jennifer Rhima

Hosts:

• Ty DeGrange – Host of Always Be Testing
• Jennifer Rhima – Director of Partnerships at Apollo.io

Release Date: March 18, 2025
Duration: Approximately 30 minutes

Introduction

The episode kicks off with Ty DeGrange welcoming Jennifer Rhima to the Always Be Testing podcast, highlighting her expertise in B2B SaaS, product-led growth (PLG), and partnerships. Recorded live at the Capital Factory in Austin, Texas, the conversation promises deep insights into growth strategies, performance marketing, and data-driven decision-making within the SaaS landscape.

Understanding Apollo.io

[01:02] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer provides an overview of Apollo.io, describing it as an all-in-one sales, intelligence, and engagement platform tailored primarily for the Small and Medium Business (SMB) sector, with an expanding focus on mid-market companies. The platform offers a comprehensive database of contacts, engagement tools for outreach, and newly launched conversation intelligence meetings, positioning Apollo as an indispensable tool for sellers and founders.

Key Points:

• All-in-One Solution: Combines sales intelligence, engagement tools, and conversation intelligence.
• Target Audience: Primarily SMBs, expanding to mid-market.
• Features: Extensive contact database, outreach tools, and conversation intelligence.

[01:34] Ty DeGrange:
Ty commends Apollo's strategic approach, emphasizing the importance of embracing PLG to deepen user engagement and growth.

Notable Quote:
"It's a smart strategy in the B2B SaaS PLG play, trying to expand and wrap your arms around your users." – Ty DeGrange

Building and Scaling Partnership Programs

[02:03] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer shares her journey at Apollo, where she established the partnership programs from the ground up. Starting as a lone initiator, she has grown the team to six members, managing four distinct partner programs: affiliates, agencies, technology integrations, and the startup ecosystem.

Key Points:

• Program Development: Initiated and scaled partnership programs over three years.
• Team Growth: Expanded to a dedicated team handling diverse partnership streams.
• Program Types: Affiliates, agencies, technology integrations, and startup ecosystems.

[03:29] Discussion on Best Practices:
Jennifer emphasizes that launching a partner program is relatively straightforward, but distinguishing factors lie in partner enablement. Instead of merely acquiring new partners, successful programs focus on activating and empowering existing partners to prevent stagnation.

Notable Quote:
"It's easy to focus on how many partners are you acquiring each month, but 20% of your partners are the ones that are active." – Jennifer Rhima [03:29]

Strategies for Success:

• Enabling Partners: Providing resources, continual engagement, and support.
• Data-Driven Decisions: Tracking partner-driven revenue, activation metrics, and pipeline influence.
• Collaborative Culture: Fostering internal relationships across sales, marketing, customer success, and product teams to integrate partnerships seamlessly into the business.

[05:31] Ty DeGrange:
Ty underscores the importance of internal buy-in, acknowledging that partnerships require cross-departmental support to thrive.

[06:07] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer discusses the ongoing challenge of educating internal stakeholders about the value of partnerships, highlighting the necessity of data to demonstrate their impact.

Notable Quote:
"When you have data to say, we had a partner help us close this deal in a shorter amount of time or we had a higher contract size because a partner was involved, people start to take you seriously." – Jennifer Rhima [06:07]

The Evolution and Impact of Partnerships in B2B SaaS

[07:09] Ty DeGrange:
Ty reflects on the growing recognition of partnerships as a critical growth lever in B2B SaaS, contrasting it with the limited conversations surrounding it five years ago.

[07:36] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer shares her experiences from abroad, particularly noting the difference in partnership dynamics between the Middle East and the U.S. She points out the emergence of communities like "Partnership Leaders," indicating that partnership roles are becoming integral to SaaS companies.

Notable Quote:
"Partnerships are fairly new in businesses, so you're constantly needing to highlight why it's important." – Jennifer Rhima [07:36]

Effective Partner Program Components

[10:23] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer delves into the foundational elements of a successful partner program, emphasizing the use of Partner Relationship Management (PRM) tools. She advocates for automating training processes to ensure partners are well-versed in Apollo's offerings, fostering investment and commitment.

Key Components:

• Partner Relationship Management (PRM): Utilizes tools like PartnerStack to streamline and scale partner management.
• Automated Training and Certification: Ensures partners understand and can effectively sell Apollo's products.
• Data Integration: Integrates PRMs with Customer Relationship Management (CRM) systems for seamless data flow and accurate tracking.

Notable Quote:
"End-to-end tracking is so important, and a PRM allows you to make sure that attribution is being attributed to your partners." – Jennifer Rhima [14:09]

Leveraging Agencies and Undervalued Partners

[16:58] Ty DeGrange:
Ty prompts Jennifer to discuss underutilized aspects of partner programs, steering the conversation towards the significant yet often overlooked role of agencies.

[17:34] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer reveals the substantial impact agencies have within Apollo's partnerships, contributing to 20% of partnership revenue. She explains that agencies, unlike typical affiliates, have direct relationships with their clients, fostering trust and driving higher-quality leads that enhance customer retention.

Key Insights:

• Agency Partnerships: Go beyond referrals, offering co-marketing opportunities and customer implementation support.
• Impact on Retention: Agencies assist in customer onboarding and product adoption, reducing churn.
• Mutual Benefits: Agencies seek not just revenue share but comprehensive support and collaboration from Apollo.

Notable Quote:
"Agencies are not just a referral relationship; they want co-marketing, they want you to send customers to them." – Jennifer Rhima [17:34]

Trends and Future Directions in B2B SaaS Partnerships

[20:14] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer expresses her enthusiasm for the evolving role of partnerships in go-to-market strategies. She emphasizes the ongoing need to prove the efficacy of partnerships through data, inspiring her to continuously enhance Apollo's programs.

[21:25] Discussion on Attribution Models:
The conversation shifts to the critical issue of partner attribution. Jennifer highlights the complexities of accurately attributing revenue to the correct touchpoint in the customer journey, noting that partnerships often contend with traditional paid channels.

Notable Quote:
"There's a bigger focus on partner attribution to ensure you see the ROI in partnerships." – Jennifer Rhima [21:25]

Key Trends:

• Enhanced Attribution Models: Moving beyond first-touch and last-touch attribution to more nuanced, partnership-specific models.
• Integration of PRMs and CRMs: Improving data accuracy and visibility across marketing and sales channels.
• Focus on Quality Over Quantity: Prioritizing partners that drive high-converting leads over sheer volume of registrations.

[23:13] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer discusses Apollo's internal debates on attribution, striving to attribute revenue to partnerships regardless of whether it's first or last touch. This reflects a broader trend of companies re-evaluating traditional attribution models to better account for partnership contributions.

Data Analysis and Performance Metrics

[24:31] Jennifer Rhima:
Emphasizing a data-driven approach, Jennifer outlines Apollo's key performance indicators (KPIs) for partnerships:

• Registrations from Partners: Tracking the volume of leads generated by each partner.
• Revenue from Partnerships: Measuring the financial impact of each partnership.
• Activation Metrics: Identifying active versus dormant partners to focus efforts on the most productive relationships.
• Free to Paid Conversion Rates: Analyzing which partners drive high-quality, paying customers to optimize commission incentives.

Notable Quote:
"Our main North Star metrics are the registrations we're getting from partners and the revenue coming from partnerships." – Jennifer Rhima [24:31]

Applications:

• Targeted Campaigns: Running higher commission incentives for partners that not only drive registrations but also achieve high conversion rates.
• Continuous Optimization: Using data insights to refine partnership strategies and enhance ROI.

Personal Insights and Recommendations

[26:24] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer shares personal interests outside of her professional role, revealing her passion for reviewing places on Google Maps and her love for travel. With experience in 41 countries, she highlights Japan and Lebanon as her favorite destinations, offering recommendations for fellow travelers.

Notable Quote:
"I'm an avid Google Maps reviewer with 20 million views on my photos. I love posting photos of restaurants and food." – Jennifer Rhima [26:29]

Book Recommendations:

• "The Alchemist" – A book Jennifer intends to reread.
• "The Ride of a Lifetime" – Jennifer's favorite about the Disney story.

[28:43] Jennifer Rhima:
Jennifer humorously admits to struggling with responding to LinkedIn messages but invites listeners to connect by mentioning their appearance on the podcast.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Ty and Jennifer expressing mutual appreciation for the insightful discussion. Jennifer encourages listeners to reach out via LinkedIn to continue the conversation, and Ty applauds her strategic and data-driven approach to partnership management.

Final Quote:
"Building the foundation and making sure everything was set up properly is why we've been able to scale the way we have." – Jennifer Rhima [16:58]

Key Takeaways

1. Strategic Partner Enablement: Focus on activating and empowering partners rather than solely acquiring new ones to ensure long-term engagement and revenue generation.
2. Importance of PRMs: Utilizing Partner Relationship Management tools like PartnerStack is crucial for scalable and efficient partner management, enabling accurate tracking and attribution.
3. Agency Partnerships: Agencies can significantly impact revenue and customer retention by leveraging their trusted relationships with clients, making them an underrated yet valuable partner type.
4. Data-Driven Decisions: Continuous analysis of registrations, revenue, activation rates, and conversion metrics is essential for optimizing partnership strategies and demonstrating ROI.
5. Evolving Attribution Models: Re-evaluating traditional attribution models to better account for the unique contributions of partnerships is a growing necessity in the B2B SaaS landscape.
6. Collaborative Culture: Building strong internal relationships across various departments ensures that partnerships are integrated and valued within the broader business strategy.

Resources Mentioned

• Apollo.io: Apollo.io Website
• PartnerStack: PartnerStack Website
• Books:
  • The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho
  • The Ride of a Lifetime by Robert Iger

Connect with Jennifer Rhima

For more insights and to connect with Jennifer Rhima, listeners are encouraged to reach out via LinkedIn, mentioning their appearance on the Always Be Testing podcast.

LinkedIn: Jennifer Rhima on LinkedIn

End of Summary