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#76 Unlocking B2B SaaS Growth: A Partner-Led Strategy | Jennifer Rhima , Director of Partnerships in Apollo.io
00:30:37
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- [00:00]
Ty Degrange
Foreign. Welcome to another episode of the Always Be Testing podcast. I'm your host, Ty degrange, live and in person here at the Capital Factory. And I'm really excited to have Jennifer Riemann today. Jennifer, how are you?
- [00:19]
Jennifer Riemann
I'm great. Thank you for having me, Ty. It's a beautiful day here in Austin, so I can't complain.
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Ty Degrange
Amazing. It's so good to see you again. And sounds like you might have some other folks here as well in Austin.
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Jennifer Riemann
Yes, I do.
- [00:32]
Ty Degrange
That's great. Well, maybe. Jumping right in. So Jennifer leads partnerships for Apollo. Definitely view her as a B2B SaaS and PLG expert. She's spoken numerous conferences and is just a phenomenal resource in the partnership space, in particular in B2B SaaS and PLG. So you're in for a treat today. It's going to be fun and I think we're going to get into some good stuff.
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Jennifer Riemann
Thanks. Thank you, Ty. I'm excited to be here and thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
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Ty Degrange
Absolutely. Jumping right in. What is Apollo?
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Jennifer Riemann
So for those that are unfamiliar with Apollo, we're a B2B all in one sales, intelligence and engagement platform and we target mostly the SMB space. That's our bread and butter. But we are moving a bit upmarket to mid market. So sellers, founders, they use our platform. We have a database of contacts and then we have our engagement tool so you can reach out to those prospects. And then recently we've launched conversation intelligence meetings. So we're really trying to be that all in one tool for these companies.
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Ty Degrange
Definitely a smart Strategy in the B2B SaaS. PLG play. It seems like a theme I'm hearing a lot of, of kind of trying to expand and really wrap your arms around your users. And Round Barn Labs has been a customer of Apollo in the past and we're fans, so thank you.
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Jennifer Riemann
We love hearing that and we love meeting happy customers. So good to hear it.
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Ty Degrange
Yep. Maybe some users out there in the audience tell us a little bit about just what you do for Apollo.
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Jennifer Riemann
Yeah, I've been at Apollo for almost three years and I joined to start our partnership programs from scratch and now we've built out a team and we focus on four different partner programs at Apollo. We have affiliates, we have agencies, technology which are integrations, and then we have startup ecosystem. So we built it out three years ago and now we're a team of six people focusing on these four programs.
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Ty Degrange
That's amazing. That's amazing. I love to see the growth and sounds like it just kind of continues and builds on itself.
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Jennifer Riemann
Yeah, it's been amazing. And I actually used Apollo before joining. So to come in and love the product and working on partnerships has been phenomenal.
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Ty Degrange
So do you think that that kind of helps or is maybe required for someone to really do the role like you've been able to do it so successfully?
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Jennifer Riemann
Not necessarily. I think it definitely helps because you can come in and hit the ground running. You know the product already and knowing the product is essential within partnerships because you know what type of partners you want to work with. So I definitely think that helped a lot. But it's not a requirement. So people on my team, it's not something that I require them to have experience with. But again, it is a plus side.
- [03:14]
Ty Degrange
That's awesome. And we think about, you know, B2B SaaS, PLG partnership programs that you've been running now and running it so well. What is something that kind of sets those apart from those that are maybe like best in class versus those that are just not operating as efficiently?
- [03:30]
Jennifer Riemann
It's a good question. I think it's fairly easy to launch a partner program, but I think what sets some partner programs from others is instead of just focusing on new partner acquisition, you focus on enabling those partners. So that was something I really wanted to focus on at the beginning whenever we were a very lean team of we're lucky to have all these partners wanting to work with us, but we need to understand how to enable them so that we can activate them. Otherwise you're just onboarding partners and they're going to go stale. So I think that's very important. It's easy to focus on how many partners are you acquiring each month. And you know, I'm at fault for that because we do still focus on how many new partners are we bringing in. But it is common that 20% of your partners are the ones that are active. So you have this 80% that are just sitting there. So I think it's important to really focus on that and give, give your partnership teams time to set up the foundation. So what I mean by foundation is having resources available for the partners to leverage when they join your program. Are you constantly reaching out to them so you're staying top of mind? I think that really will help you scale your program. So setting that up at the beginning is important. I think another area is leveraging data to drive decisions, tracking the partner driven revenue that's coming from your programs. What are the activation metrics? What is the pipeline that is influenced from your from your partners so that when you do actually build out the team and you're scaling your programs, you have the data to back it up. And then I'd say the last, the last area is like building a culture of collaboration, not just externally because within partnerships and ty we've spoken about this is you are actually having to build a lot of relationships internally so that your internal stakeholders are understanding the value of partnerships. So that's working with sales, marketing, customer success, product team to ensure that partnerships are fully integrated into the business.
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Ty Degrange
Yeah, I love that. And this came up with another conversation recently where there was a real, and it was B2B SaaS and there was a real, you know, top down buy in and understanding of partnerships. I feel like that's something that not a ton of people talk about. Get some lip service. But curious if you have thoughts there. It just seems like building that culture of collaboration is so spot on. And I think, I don't think people always realize like how much of that really matters when you're thinking about partnerships, as cliche as it may sound, I feel like it's, it's very important to get that buy in across multiple people.
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Jennifer Riemann
Oh no, for sure. And I'm still doing that today. You know, we're three years into our partner programs and at the beginning there was a lot of documentation, there was a lot of sessions that I attended talking about why sales should take partnership seriously. There is still a need of educating internally. I think you're always going to have to do that just because it's new. Partnerships are fairly new in businesses so you're constantly needing to highlight why it's important. I think when you have data to say, oh well, you. We had a partner help us close this deal in a shorter amount of time or we had a higher contract size than we normally have because a partner was involved. I think that's when people start to take you seriously. So having, having that data driven approach I think will help in the long run. We're still struggling with that today of sales. Hey, our partner sent us this deal. You know, why are you not working it? Well, they have a lot of inbound leads coming in so we, yeah, it's managing again like those internal relationships which I think you're always going to have to do.
- [07:10]
Ty Degrange
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And I think one thing you said jumped out at me just there is thinking about like how much growth we're seeing in B2B SaaS, partner marketing and partnerships and it's like it's an exciting opportunity. Like you're kind of on that Wave. I feel like we both are. And you've, you've really, you're illustrating its value, its scale, its opportunity. It's really happening. Whereas I don't think five years ago we were really having this conversation as much.
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Jennifer Riemann
Yeah, I agree. I mean I lived abroad in the Middle east as you know, and partnerships is not what it is in the Middle east as it is here in the us. I mean you have communities like partnership leaders, which when I started at Apollo I came to know about partnership leaders and I was so fascinated that there was this community of all of these partnership leaders that are working in SaaS companies. And so yeah, it's interesting. I think now it's here to stay, which is very, very exciting. So yes, I agree.
- [08:06]
Ty Degrange
It's proven its merit and it's so rewarding when clients or the experiences you've have is like, oh my gosh, this is one of our most efficient levers and it's a huge part of executive team's growth and strategy. That's the place we want to be. And I think it's taken this industry a little bit of time to get there and I just think it's exciting times to be in it. Speaking of which, what are some of the things you love about partnerships?
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Jennifer Riemann
I love the relationship building aspects and how cross functional the role is. You know, I mentioned that you're not just working internally with your sales team, but you're also working externally with all of your partners stakeholders, which it's a lot to manage but I think it just, it requires like a long term game of building trust alignment internally, externally and it's so different than being very transactional which sales is. You know, I, I was in sales in my early on in my career and moving into partnerships, it's, it is really about building the rapport and it's a, it's a win win and sometimes it's hard to forget that it's a win win for both sides. Yes, partners want rev share, but they also want so much more. And I think understanding that is the beauty of it, of okay, I want this, but also how can I help you? And yeah, so mostly the relationship building side of things is what I love about partnerships.
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Ty Degrange
I feel very similarly and I think there's also this, I don't know, there's this cool vibe of like small business and entrepreneurship ingrained in it as well, which obviously you understand. And I think that, you know, not a lot of these partners are sometimes bigger than the brands they're promoting. Like sometimes they're as Big, sometimes they're multinational, you know, they're huge. But a lot of times we're talking about maybe one single individual that is a great assessor of these tools or a creator or someone that's integrating these tools professionally. And so I think there's just, there's excitement around that, you know, not necessarily pumping more money into LinkedIn, Google, Meta, not necessarily bad thing.
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Jennifer Riemann
Yeah.
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Ty Degrange
But it's kind of nice to democratize the performance marketing world a little bit and not have all your eggs in one basket either, which is also nice.
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Jennifer Riemann
Yeah. And I think like when you build the relationships, you will stay top of mind with these partners, which, you know, sometimes it is hard to do that because also these companies have their own focus. So I think it just, it only helps in the long term.
- [10:40]
Ty Degrange
Totally. You know, a lot of people are kind of newer to B2B SaaS and like the types of partners that one can utilize and maybe for the audience that are not as aware of the various partner types in our ecosystem and B2B SaaS which you live and breathe daily. What are some of those partner types that you think about when you're kind of looking at a program, either a mature program you're looking to grow and optimize, or maybe something that comes across your desk? I'm just curious to know. I think people would benefit from having a good understanding of that and just like what are some of the players in the space to consider?
- [11:15]
Jennifer Riemann
Yeah, when I had joined Apollo, I did kind of like segment the programs based on what I saw other SaaS companies doing. And I think these four programs, they may be called something different. So affiliates is very, very common. Referral programs. The integration side of things, whether it's integrating with cloud marketplaces or integrating partners, building to your API or product partnerships, I think, and agencies as well. Agencies is common, but I'd say the least common. Maybe we just call it. This is like startup ecosystem. I think there's a lot of companies like Intercom who have a really. And HubSpot who have solid startup programs. So usually those four, I would say are like the most common partner programs that exist within SaaS today. Which is great because when you, if you were to start a new partnerships role in a SaaS company, you can kind of say, okay, this is like the approach that I want to go down. So those are the partner types that exist.
- [12:16]
Ty Degrange
Yeah, that's super helpful. And I think that a lot of the, there's a mix of audience types for us. You know, we have, you know, VPs, CMOs you know, affiliate marketers, influencer marketers, B2B SaaS, people, platform people, product growth people. So we have this varying diverse community. And so I think that there's a skew of consumer and B2B. And so educating the audience a little bit on like these are some of the building blocks of a proper B2B SaaS partnerships program is really valuable. And thinking about those players a little bit, even for people that are maybe not deep in B2B SaaS as much, I think it's good for them to be aware of. And then certainly for those that are either in that world, that's, I think it's an important reminder for them. What are some of the other kind of building blocks that you consider when you're looking at a program? Maybe outside of the partner types, but just kind of your, you know, you have to give us every last secret but your like, checklist of things of like, okay, I need to kind of look at this, I need to look at that. Is there anything that kind of comes to mind?
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Jennifer Riemann
Yeah, and I'm happy to share secrets. That's why I'm here on the Always Be Tested podcast. But so leveraging a PRM so I'll share like when I initially joined Apollo, what I focused on especially cause you're a one person show, you need to be scrappy. So leveraging a partner relationship management tool, which is called a PRM, for those that don't know, we use Partnersac and it's a common B2B PRM to use. So building out the foundation within your prm.
- [13:52]
Ty Degrange
Well, shout out to the Partner Stack team.
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Jennifer Riemann
Yeah, shout out to the Partner Stack team. I love them. It's a really, really great tool. But so leveraging a prm. I've been in roles before where I didn't, I wasn't even aware of what PRMs were and I was manually tracking everything. And that is very hard to scale.
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Ty Degrange
Yeah.
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Jennifer Riemann
So yeah, right. I mean you would know. So when before I joined Apollo, I was working in a very, very small startup and we had customers that were coming to us saying, hey, do you have a referral program? And I was like, no, we don't. We actually started looking at tools like partners. We got Partner Stack, but you know, it was not at the scale of what Apollo's program is today. So I think I do speak to partnership folks today and they're like, yeah, we're manually tracking. And I just think like in order to build trust with your partners, manually tracking is very, very difficult to do. That so get a prm. I think, you know, Partner Stack is, is a great option. There are others coming up a lot targeted to more smaller startups. Um, so if, if Partner Stack is not the right option because cost, for example, then there are others out there. So definitely leverage a prm.
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Ty Degrange
And you don't want your tracking to be in a bad place because then you might get named in one of our fancy memes that we do, calling out people that don't track properly, which you don't want to be one of those people.
- [15:11]
Jennifer Riemann
And that, and that is one of the things is like end to end tracking is so important and I think attribution is tough even today. You know, our, I would say, like our program is pretty established. There's so much more that we need to do, but tracking is very, very important. So making sure that tracking links are working properly and that's what a PRM will allow you to do, is make sure that that attribution is being attributed to your partners and then also to your partner programs. So that, that would be the second in the building phase. The third is like automate trainings. Especially with the affiliate program, you're going to onboard a ton of partners who may not be very familiar with your product offering. So if you can set up a training that maybe you actually require these partners to complete, we, we did that. It was an hour training and it was how to sell Apollo and it talked exactly about our product offering. And that will help a lot. I think also if you have partners willing to complete a training, they're invested. So set up that training, build out a certification, have a partner badge that gets them excited and proud to actually share that they're a partner. And then lastly is data and reporting. So again, a PRM will allow you to have visibility into this data, but also making sure that your PRM is connected and integrated well with your CRM so that everything is flowing correctly. That's actually like what I spent the first couple of months doing in my role at Apollo is making sure that before we start onboarding partners, you build the foundation and you're in a really good place. So immediately when you start to do outbound and get these partners on board, like it's a very seamless experience for them. And I truly think that's why we've been able to scale the way we have is because we focused on building the foundation and making sure everything was set up properly.
- [16:59]
Ty Degrange
Love it. Yeah. You didn't mess around in terms of your think detail and just making sure that the Partners had what they needed. And you're thinking, you're thinking about it in those terms. You're thinking about like the more we tee them up for success. Yes, it sounds cliche and maybe obvious, but it's amazing how often it doesn't happen and you did it and it's, it's proven itself out. So kudos to you for that. Maybe a segue into more positives and just thinking about like maybe what's something that's like underutilized in a partner program. What you find maybe perhaps a little bit underrated that maybe folks should, should keep an eye on.
- [17:34]
Jennifer Riemann
I think like I was very surprised with the impact that agencies could have. You know, starting off the program we focused just on the affiliate side of things and I think that's a good segue into adding on more partner programs. But we noticed that a lot of agencies were part of our affiliate program and ty, this is your day to day so you, you would understand. But we get, when we had the affiliate program we had a lot of agencies reaching out to us saying hey, you know, we don't want this affiliate commission. We want to do so much more than just an affiliate partnership. And that's, that has surprised me a lot. I mean agencies do drive 20% of our, our partnerships revenue and the rest is mostly affiliates. But that has increased massively. And I think the reason why agencies are so, could, could be so impactful in many areas of the business is because they have this direct relationship with their clients. They built trust with their clients. Their clients go to them asking what tools should be part of their tech stack versus affiliates. It's a one to many relationship. So with the agencies it's one to one and the agencies help your clients be successful. So now it's interesting at Apollo is we've every company has churn but it's like what can we do to mitigate this churn? And agencies, if they come in and they help your customers implement the tool, if they help them adopt, you know, your different functionality, better retention. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly, exactly. There's so many benefits to agencies and, but agencies, again it's not just a referral relationship. You need to give them stuff. So they want co marketing, they want you to send customers to them. I think that's like a huge focus for us at Apollo is leveraging agencies and we've been so lucky. We have amazing agency partners but we're just at the beginning of the relationship with these agencies. So I definitely think agency partnerships are very underrated.
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Ty Degrange
We better step up our game then I guess.
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Jennifer Riemann
And you can leverage PRMs for these agency partnerships. Like we use PartnerStack for our agency referral program. So it's a similar motion, but you need to invest more into building those relationships.
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Ty Degrange
Yeah, I feel like there are these hubs that have so much compounding value that if you invest in them then you can acquire so many more customers via that versus kind of going like you said earlier, that one on one, that one to one takes a lot more effort. A different type of effort, your spread, you know, whereas like going through an agency, if you get that working, you've kind of unlocked something pretty valuable there. It sounds like. I love it. What inspires you to continue to improve this great industry?
- [20:15]
Jennifer Riemann
We said at the beginning partnerships is still evolving in the go to market strategy and many companies underestimate the potential of partnerships. So I just love proving how impactful they can be. Again, data is the root of it. So yeah, I think it's still so new. And partnerships as a channel, coming into the company and saying, oh well now we need to really factor in how does this affect our partnerships channel. That's very exciting. And so I think that inspires me to just continue doing more with our team of look at what we've built from zero and look at where we're at today. And a lot of the teams do rely on us. So that, that excites me.
- [20:56]
Ty Degrange
It's come a long way quickly like we talked about. And so I think that inspires me as well to think about where it could go given all the successes you've had and all the success we're seeing in B2B SaaS for partnerships in our world. I think CMOS leaders are taking notice. So a lot of that's due to your effort. What big things, what cool macro trends are coming that we should keep an eye on that maybe people in the audience should, you know, watch for.
- [21:25]
Jennifer Riemann
You know, I feel like we're kind of in this position today. It's. There's needs to be a bigger focus on partner attribution. I feel like a lot of the teams, you know, paid teams, our social team, it's kind of like we're competing against each other to drive the same traffic. So I think like focusing on partner attribution is very, very essential. And I do speak to a lot of partnership leaders and they're like, oh man, attribution, you know, a lot of things are falling through the cracks and that's hard because companies have first touch attribution, they have last touch Attribution. So every company is gonna be very different. But I think there is a big trend on making sure this and even like partnerstack, you know, we have this discussion with them all the time, like how do you solve for attribution issues? So I definitely think there is a bigger focus on it in order to make sure that you see the ROI in partnerships.
- [22:18]
Ty Degrange
Yeah, you nailed it. Little plug for the newsletter. You know, I enjoy writing. Helps me kind of think and get good things out there hopefully. And one of the things I, I saw, and I think it wasn't rocket science, but there's been this really big explosion of attribution conversation and I think tech and awareness and people focused on it is starting to kind of help, I think bring that to light more. And I'm very excited and hopeful about this space. It's a big topic for our team, it's a big topic for our industry. So I think you hit the nail on the head. I think we're in agreement there. Is there a attribution model or structure that maybe you think, you know, a B2B SAS PLG should consider or maybe look at? I know that's a little bit of a hot, hot topic and you don't have to share but like if one were to look into it, what it doesn't seem like first or last is really ideal. I would, I would.
- [23:14]
Jennifer Riemann
Yeah. I mean I'm not an expert at all. And it's something that we're, it's interesting because like we were first touch and obviously like with partner stack, you know, if a partner sends a referral and let's say there's the 90 day cookie, regardless, regardless if it's first touch or last touch, you're still going to pay the partner out on that first touch. So there you go. My manager and I, we have this discussion of just like, oh, well, you know, I feel like we are, we are, we're doing last touch attribution now as a company. Um, and so there's some programs that I think, you know, we're losing out on revenue and we actually are having a discussion on it this coming week of just like, okay, partnerships is a little different than the other channels. Can we make any exceptions here? So again, it's not my expertise. I just know that we want the revenue attributed to us regardless if it's first touch or last touch. But it's an ongoing discussion.
- [24:05]
Ty Degrange
Yeah, you're too busy scoring the points to keep the scorecard in the stands. That's what I like to think about. Speaking of the fun topic of data analysis, we talked about this a little bit. Is there any other things to consider there to maybe like, hey, kind of keep an eye on this piece. We kind of covered a good amount of it. But is there a data analysis or tracking piece that you find to be maybe something to guide people to keep a lookout on in your space?
- [24:31]
Jennifer Riemann
Yeah, I mean I think like being in this role has forced me to be very data driven in such a positive way. But you have to look at the revenue coming from partnerships. So like our main North Star metrics are what are the registrations that we're getting from partners and then also what is the revenue coming from partnerships and what's the contribution that partnerships has in the overall like bucket of of your company's revenue? So tracking that revenue is important activation metrics. And again like if you have 20% of your partners driving the traffic, you need to understand like how many partnerships, how many partners is that versus just somebody joining your program and they're dormant. So analyzing those activation metrics again, something we're still working on today, like definitely have not nailed that down. I know it's a common issue across many different parts. Partner programs is just activating partners.
- [25:28]
Ty Degrange
Huge, huge topic.
- [25:29]
Jennifer Riemann
Yeah. And lastly, and most recently is we built out an analysis to look at the free to paid conversion rate because Apollo is plg, as you mentioned, but we have a free plan. So looking at which partners are driving the higher conversion rate means like we need to focus on these partners. Yes, they may not be driving that many registrations, but that means they're driving good quality customers your way. So that's been an analysis that I've really loved looking into. And actually we're running like it's interesting because now that we have this data, the way we're leveraging the data is for we're running a campaign right now with our affiliate partners who have been sending us the highest registrations, but then also who have the highest conversion rate. We're running a higher commission incentive for them. I think like that's the way we're using data in our roles. But I think those are the main metrics that we look at as a business for our partner programs.
- [26:25]
Ty Degrange
Love it. You nailed that. What's something that people in the audience might not know about you?
- [26:30]
Jennifer Riemann
Okay. I'm an avid Google Maps reviewer.
- [26:34]
Ty Degrange
Wow.
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Jennifer Riemann
And I know there's a lot of local guides out there. But my, some of my colleagues give me a hard time because my. I have 20 million views on my photos. I do I love posting photos of the restaurants, the food. But hey, and Google maybe sponsor me because I get nothing out of being a Google. Google Local guide.
- [26:54]
Ty Degrange
Come on, Google, get with it, get with it.
- [26:56]
Jennifer Riemann
So that's something fun that I like to do on the side because my husband and I are big foodies. So whenever we're out and about I'm like, I need to write a review. So I am a harsh critic, although most of my reviews are like five stars. So I guess I'm not that harsh of a critic. But yeah, so that's something people may not know about me.
- [27:11]
Ty Degrange
Don't mess with Jennifer on the if you're a foodie in the area, we'll look to her for some suggestions. I already got some good ones today, so good to know. Any good book recommendations out there for folks?
- [27:24]
Jennifer Riemann
Oh, I read these a while ago, but I would definitely reread them. I love the Alchemist and the Ride of a Lifetime, which is about the Disney story. So yeah, very, very good books. I'm an audiobook kind of girl, so there's a lot that I'm listening to. But right now I'm listening to a lot of fiction, but Those are my 2 favorite.
- [27:45]
Ty Degrange
I do like to get some fiction mixed in. I'm finishing up John Adams right now. The Bio.
- [27:51]
Jennifer Riemann
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [27:52]
Ty Degrange
Yeah. Pulitzer Prize winner. So, you know, no big deal.
- [27:57]
Jennifer Riemann
How long has it taken you to read?
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Ty Degrange
It actually reads pretty fast. It was about 600 pages and it's kind of a nighttime read. Like it puts me to sleep, but I got through it. I don't know when I started. Actually, I do know I started it in November, so it's been a moment. It's taken me a while, but I'm mostly just doing like a, you know, maybe a chapter at night before I crash out. It's a good way to go to sleep as opposed to like doom scrolling or too much Netflix.
- [28:26]
Jennifer Riemann
I do have almost two year olds, so I feel like I like to decompress and I'm guilty of just scrolling on my phone. So I commend you for actually reading.
- [28:34]
Ty Degrange
I'm not that. Yeah, I definitely do the scrolling as well and there's times when I don't read, but it's taken me a minute.
- [28:41]
Jennifer Riemann
But yeah, okay, let me know how it is.
- [28:43]
Ty Degrange
I will.
- [28:44]
Jennifer Riemann
I'll spend the next year reading it.
- [28:47]
Ty Degrange
It's very good. And then yeah, like drop some trip recommendations on us. You've done some really cool, you know, international experiences and travel and lived in Dubai. What do you got for US So.
- [28:58]
Jennifer Riemann
I have been lucky to travel a lot. I've been to 41 countries, so to pick one, it's difficult. My husband and I did do a trip recently to Japan, which was incredible.
- [29:10]
Ty Degrange
It's on my bucket list.
- [29:11]
Jennifer Riemann
Oh, we did Tokyo and Kyoto, and it was just honestly, like, it's one of the places that I would go back to again. My husband are always like, oh, man, Japan was amazing. So, yeah, Japan is fascinating. And if you do go, let me know. I'd love to share some recommendations. But then also, one of my favorite places is Lebanon. That's where my husband's from and we do go to Lebanon a lot and it's just stunning. You go from sea to mountain in less than two hours, so it's really gorgeous. But yeah, we do love to travel. We traveled a lot more before we had our sun. But yeah, so those are my two, two recommendations.
- [29:48]
Ty Degrange
Amazing. I love it. Well, Jennifer, you dropped some great fun, interesting, informative stuff for us today. It's been an absolute pleasure. Where can folks find you that want to learn more?
- [29:58]
Jennifer Riemann
Well, thank you, Ty. I do love LinkedIn. I'm guilty, though, of replying to. I'm horrible. I admit that I'm horrible at replying to LinkedIn messages. So if you do want to chat, just mention that you heard me on the Always Be Testing podcast. And I would definitely love, love to respond. But yeah, LinkedIn is probably the best way to go.
- [30:18]
Ty Degrange
Amazing. So, such a pleasure to see you and thanks so much for coming in. Have a great day.
- [30:23]
Jennifer Riemann
Thank you so much, Ty. Thanks for having me.
- [30:25]
Ty Degrange
You got it.