Podcast Summary: Always Be Testing Episode #79 – A Holistic Approach to Full-Funnel Marketing with Ryan Pitylak

Introduction

In Episode #79 of the Always Be Testing podcast, host Ty DeGrange welcomes Ryan Pitylak, Executive Vice President of Growth at NinjaTrader. The episode delves into Ryan's extensive experience in growth and performance marketing, exploring his insights on full-funnel marketing, the evolving landscape of performance media, influencer marketing, and personal reflections on his career and passions.

Role at NinjaTrader

Ryan Pitylak provides an overview of his role at NinjaTrader, a retail futures brokerage and software company. He explains the company's mission to empower retail traders through advanced trading platforms and educational resources.

"In my role running Growth, we're building a bunch of education and tools to help traders become better." [01:10]

Ryan emphasizes the importance of catering to traders of all experience levels, from beginners to seasoned professionals, ensuring that NinjaTrader serves as a comprehensive resource for honing trading skills.

Evolution of Performance Marketing: The Rise of AI

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the transformative impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in performance marketing. Ryan highlights how major platforms like Google and Meta have integrated AI to optimize bidding strategies and ad placements, shifting the paradigm from traditional audience targeting to creative-driven targeting.

"The predominance of AI to drive performance outcomes... you're giving it components of a potential ad and it's deciding which combination of components of the ad should be shown to that particular person based on what they know about them." [03:42]

Ryan discusses Google's Performance Max and Demand Gen products, which allow advertisers to set broad targets and budgets, delegating the optimization process to Google's AI algorithms.

"Performance Max is effectively you saying to Google, here are some guardrails... and go find them for me." [04:10]

He also touches on the influence of AI on search engine optimization (SEO), noting the increasing importance of being cited as a source by AI platforms like ChatGPT to maintain visibility.

"Making sure that you're showing up as a cited source... is another way of leaning into AI in today's world." [05:50]

The Power of Influencer Marketing

Ryan passionately advocates for the enduring power of influencer marketing, emphasizing authenticity as the cornerstone of successful influencer campaigns. Drawing from his early experiences with creative agencies and influencer initiatives, he underscores the necessity of allowing influencers the freedom to share genuine experiences with products.

"For that to work, you need to give the influencer really free rein about what they say about you... we want you to be authentic." [07:50]

He explores the intersection of influencer and affiliate marketing, highlighting how authentic, co-branded content can enhance credibility and drive performance.

"Branded content coming from the influencer's account... increases that authenticity." [10:30]

Common Mistakes in Growth Marketing

Ryan identifies prevalent pitfalls in growth and performance marketing, particularly the tendency to overemphasize advertising elements while neglecting core product or service quality. He argues that unsuccessful campaigns often stem from underlying issues with the product rather than the marketing efforts.

"Too often, people spend too much energy focusing on the advertising. If something isn't working, that's usually not the piece that's broken." [12:14]

He also cautions against prematurely expanding into upper funnel channels without robust measurement and strategy, such as attempting to apply performance marketing tactics to channels like connected TV or linear TV without the necessary infrastructure.

"Trying to apply performance marketing tactics to upper funnel channels without robust measurement... is a common mistake." [15:55]

Key Learnings and Experimental Insights

Ryan shares valuable lessons from his extensive experience, particularly in conversion optimization. He recounts challenges with landing page A/B testing, where initial tests showed false positives due to randomness, leading to misleading conclusions about conversion rate improvements.

"We kept banking all these wins... and everything was the same. Eventually, we had to say, okay, this is not working." [29:28]

To mitigate such issues, Ryan recommends meticulously tracking daily conversion rates rather than relying on cumulative data, ensuring that observed improvements are genuine and sustainable.

"You have to look at literally every single day's conversion rate. That's what matters." [33:56]

He also emphasizes the importance of running experiments over extended periods (typically two weeks) and maintaining a high volume of conversions to achieve statistical significance and reliable results.

"You have to let tests run for about two weeks... to see if the conversion rate lift persists." [34:56]

Career Highlights and Passion for Trading

Ryan reflects on pivotal moments in his career, notably his involvement with SendBusiness, where he played a significant role in scaling the company to a $1.7 billion valuation. This experience opened doors to numerous opportunities, ultimately leading him to NinjaTrader.

"Joining the founding team at SendBusiness... raised over $250 million and reached a $1.7 billion valuation." [35:50]

He discusses his passion for trading, describing it as a self-development journey that requires conquering personal challenges rather than the unpredictable market itself.

"Trading is really a self-development process... you conquer yourself." [43:46]

Community and Austin's Growth

The conversation shifts to the vibrant tech and growth community in Austin, contrasting it with his experiences in larger hubs like San Francisco. Ryan praises Austin for its accessible, life-size networking opportunities and the burgeoning startup scene that fosters meaningful relationships and collaborations.

"Austin's prolific growth in the startup scene... it's a great place to come to pursue your growth marketing career." [44:18]

Ty DeGrange echoes this sentiment, highlighting Austin's unique cultural attributes, such as Southern hospitality and openness, which facilitate a collaborative and supportive business environment.

"The openness in the community and that willingness to help is really... similar to what I felt in San Francisco during its golden years." [46:09]

Personal Insights and Reflections

Ryan shares personal anecdotes, including his transition into fatherhood, which profoundly reshaped his priorities and perspective. He underscores the importance of finding meaningful work that aligns with personal passions, emphasizing that passion transforms work into a fulfilling pursuit.

"Passion makes it so that work does not feel like work. I enjoy the problems I'm solving and the results I'm striving for." [39:15]

He also touches on his interest in skiing, aiming to instill this passion in his children, and recounts memorable trips to Moscow and Beijing that broadened his cultural horizons and fostered a deeper appreciation for diverse ways of living.

"Trading is the ultimate challenge... it's a self-development process." [43:46]

Recommended Reading

When asked about valuable resources for aspiring traders, Ryan recommends "Trading in the Zone" by Mark Douglas, emphasizing the importance of mastering the psychological aspects of trading before delving into technical analysis.

"Trading in the Zone is a book that I read every year. There's something about the truth of trading that's in those pages." [49:48]

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Ty expressing his appreciation for Ryan's insights and the depth of their long-standing professional relationship. Ryan shares his preferred method of connection via LinkedIn, inviting listeners to engage with him further.

"You can just look me up on LinkedIn. That's typically the best way." [50:43]

Ty wraps up the discussion, highlighting it as one of his favorite in-person episodes, underscoring the value of authentic, data-driven conversations in the realm of growth and performance marketing.

Notable Quotes

• "The predominance of AI to drive performance outcomes... you're giving it components of a potential ad and it's deciding which combination of components of the ad should be shown to that particular person based on what they know about them." – Ryan Pitylak [03:42]

• "For that to work, you need to give the influencer really free rein about what they say about you... we want you to be authentic." – Ryan Pitylak [07:50]

• "Too often, people spend too much energy focusing on the advertising. If something isn't working, that's usually not the piece that's broken." – Ryan Pitylak [12:14]

• "Trading is really a self-development process... you conquer yourself." – Ryan Pitylak [43:46]

• "Passion makes it so that work does not feel like work. I enjoy the problems I'm solving and the results I'm striving for." – Ryan Pitylak [39:15]

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of full-funnel marketing strategies, the integration of AI in performance marketing, and the enduring significance of authentic influencer partnerships. Ryan Pitylak’s expertise provides valuable lessons for marketers seeking to optimize their growth strategies while maintaining a customer-centric approach.