Podcast Summary: Always Be Testing – Episode #98 "Activity vs. Impact: A Marketing Conversation with Erica Yoon"

Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Tye DeGrange
Guest: Erica Yoon, Head of Marketing at BuildOps

Overview

In this engaging episode, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Erica Yoon, current marketing lead at BuildOps, to dig into the distinctions between activity and impact in marketing, the evolution of cross-functional collaboration in high-growth startups, and how AI is transforming approaches in B2B SaaS—especially in a "non-digital" sector like commercial contracting. The conversation flows through hard-earned lessons, tactical insights, AI adoption, and fun cultural touchstones, all delivered with authenticity and humor.

Main Themes and Key Insights

Marketing’s Maturation: From Demand Gen to Full-Funnel Impact

[01:27] – [04:33]

• Expansion Beyond Demand Gen:
  Erica explains how her role and vision at BuildOps has evolved from a classic performance and acquisition focus to influencing the entire customer journey. This includes cross-functional collaborations with product and new customer advocacy initiatives.

  "It's really like more about the time of how you drive broader scale... from top of funnel awareness all the way through to partnering with product to really bring a strong story to life." – Erica Yoon [01:27]

• Cross-Functional Collaboration:
  As companies scale, collaboration between focused functions like product and marketing becomes essential.

  “It’s really fun to kind of see everyone collectively... look across the aisle and figure out, well, how do we start collaborating together and working cross functionally rather than just running really, really hard at that specific part of the goal?” – Erica Yoon [02:24]

Understanding & Serving the ICP (Ideal Customer Profile)

[04:33] – [08:23]

• Audience Clarification – B2B, not B2C:
  BuildOps focuses on commercial contractors, not homeowners. Their customers are characterized by grit, scrappiness, and a demand for tangible value.

  “Our customer and ICP…they’re all grit. They’re looking for something real. They literally do things with their hands every day. If your software can’t deliver real results, they will be the first to tell you.” – Erica Yoon [04:33]

• Segment Variability:
  Customers range from small mom-and-pop shops to large, PE-backed firms. Marketing and product must stay tightly aligned with these practical needs.

"We Are the Donkey, Our Customer is Shrek": Centering Customer Value

[08:23] – [09:06]

• Customer-Centric Mindset:
  A favorite internal analogy is cited—marketing isn’t the hero of the story; the customer is.

  “We are the donkey and our customer is Shrek. We are not at the center of the journey. We need to make sure that it’s their movie, they’re the main character.” – Erica Yoon [08:23]

Riding the AI Wave with Intentionality

[10:12] – [13:51]

• Smart AI Adoption:
  Erica dives into practical, experimental prompts for leveraging AI, inspired by industry peers.

  “You have to tell it a data source, organize it, but the other half…is a little bit of, like, stage direction or play acting…make sure you’re always using it to refine, and it should be supplemental, not a replacement.” – Erica Yoon [10:12]

• AI’s Challenge in ‘Analog’ Industries:
  There’s an added challenge introducing AI to customers who are still transitioning from pen-and-paper workflows.

  “You’re trying to bring AI to an audience that’s like, wait, let’s make sure the fundamentals are working…AI needs to be substance, not flash.” – Erica Yoon [11:45]

• Host’s Perspective:
  Tye adds that the democratization of AI means nearly everyone is learning together, creating an even playing field for experimentation.

Partner & Affiliate Marketing as Innovation Hotbeds

[15:04] – [15:54]

• Early-Adoption Culture:
  Both note that affiliate and partner marketing are usually quick to adopt new technology, reinforcing the importance of always testing.

  “They’re some of the leading edge innovators. ...They tend to innovate quite well. Always be testing something new.” – Tye DeGrange [15:29]

Activity ≠ Impact: Common Pitfalls for Marketers

[16:08] – [17:03]

• Erica’s ‘Spicy Take’:
  Busy does not equal effective; true marketing impact is measured by outcomes tied to customer value, not just activity.

  “Activity is not impact. ...What is going to be an actual lever mover and what’s the best for the customer? You could ship all those things, but how many of them actually matter?” – Erica Yoon [16:08]

• Tye’s Cowboy Wisdom:

  “Don’t mistake motion for progress.” – Tye DeGrange [17:03]

Learning & Leadership at Reddit: Building Teams Around Mission

[17:52] – [21:14]

• Career Reflections:
  Erica describes her time at Reddit, from navigating internet culture to recognizing mismatches with certain technical ops work.

• Building a Movement:
  She discusses building a product-led growth function and inspiring a team to rally around new KPIs, joking about her ‘cult leader’ potential.

  "There’s something very powerful about giving people something to believe in and watching them rally around it." – Erica Yoon [21:12]

Navigating Conflicting KPIs: How to Rally Teams

[22:16] – [25:51]

• Aligning Around the Customer:
  Both speakers share strategies for guiding teams through conflicting goals—centering conversations on long-term customer value and matching messaging to individual motivations.

  “Center the customer. ...If you’re doing it for the best interest of the customer, it’s ultimately going to be the best for the business.” – Erica Yoon [22:41]

• Genuine Enthusiasm Matters:

  “Having a genuine, real plan and excitement around something can be contagious.” – Tye DeGrange [25:27]

Marketing’s Role in Shaping Product Roadmap

[26:34] – [31:03]

• Interpreting Customer Feedback:
  Erica explains the challenges of responding to practical, “prescriptive” feature requests versus interpreting the underlying need (“the spirit of the ask”). Building trust and storytelling are key to bridging gaps.

  “We’ve got a pretty interesting task of making sure we are solving for the spirit of the ask rather than the letter of the law.” – Erica Yoon [26:34]

• Strategic Product-Event Alignment:
  Product launches are timed around key industry events to maximize splash, with marketing working closely with product to clarify vision and impact.

AI in Daily Work and Long-term SaaS Monetization

[31:30] – [35:35]

• Operational AI Integration:
  AI is woven into workflows—meeting summaries, brainstorming, lead scoring. There’s a logic of “validate before committing” to ensure real value, not just technocentric novelty.

  “We want to try and vet and validate before we commit… Being able to understand...here’s something we know we need to ship, but what’s the most intentional way we can deliver value?” – Erica Yoon [31:30]

• Open Questions on Pricing:
  Erica raises the strategic question of how to monetize AI within vertical SaaS when true value may actually lower the traditional seat-based pricing model.

  “If you’re using AI, you might not need as many user seats. So how do you think about the right way to structure that without cannibalizing yourself?” – Erica Yoon [33:34]

Personal Fun & Book Recommendations

[35:59] – [37:49]

• Non-Marketing Background:
  Erica confesses to having a degree in religious studies, tying in humorously to her “cult leader” metaphor.

  “I'm actually...I didn't go to school for marketing. I went to school for religious studies. That's why I'm always like, oh, how do I get back to that?” – Erica Yoon [35:59]

• Fiction Book Pick:
  She recommends “The Employees” by Olga Ravin, a speculative novel told through the journal entries of humans and AIs on a spaceship.

  “It’s just really interesting…written before AI really, really blew up. Which is why I wanted to reread it.” – Erica Yoon [37:01]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Customer Focus:
  “We are the donkey and our customer is Shrek. We are not at the center of the journey.” – Erica Yoon [08:23]

• Activity vs. Impact:
  “Activity is not impact…it’s easy to get lost in that.” – Erica Yoon [16:08]
  “Don’t mistake motion for progress.” – Tye DeGrange [17:03]

• On AI & Adoption:
  “You’re trying to bring AI to an audience that’s like, wait, let’s make sure the fundamentals are working…AI needs to be substance, not flash.” – Erica Yoon [11:45]

• On Leading Change:
  “There’s something very powerful about giving people something to believe in and watching them rally around it.” – Erica Yoon [21:12]

• Humor Break:
  “We are the donkey and our customer is Shrek…If there’s no them, there is no us.” – Erica Yoon [08:23]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:27] – Evolving marketing maturity at BuildOps
• [04:33] – Defining the commercial contractor ICP and practical value focus
• [08:23] – “Donkey and Shrek” analogy; customer-centric marketing
• [10:12] – Practical frameworks for using AI in marketing
• [16:08] – “Activity is not impact”: common marketing trap
• [21:12] – Building buy-in for new KPIs and product-led growth
• [22:41] – Strategies for aligning teams and centering the customer
• [26:34] – Marketing’s role in product development and customer feedback
• [31:30] – Deploying AI daily and the challenge of pricing innovation
• [35:59] – Personal background and book recommendation

Conclusion

This episode captures the shift in startups and SaaS from siloed, activity-based marketing to customer-centered, holistic impact, with a generous side of lessons learned from AI adoption, product-marketing partnerships, and the value of keeping things real in both culture and deliverables. Erica’s blend of strategic insight, operational detail, and self-aware humor makes this a valuable listen for anyone in marketing, product, or growth roles.

Connect:

• Find Erica on LinkedIn
• BuildOps is hiring!

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