An Unfiltered Conversation about Postpartum

Summary

Always Here – Episode Summary
Episode Title: An Unfiltered Conversation about Postpartum
Hosts: Abby Howard & Abby Howard | Guest: Addie
Release Date: July 10, 2026
Podcast: Always Here by Daylight Media

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers a real, raw, humorous, and heart-filled conversation about postpartum life, as experienced by Abby, Abby, and their sister-in-law Addie. The trio discusses the emotional and physical rollercoaster of postpartum recovery—shedding light on the messy, memorable, and sometimes hilarious realities that new moms face. With openness about mental health, vulnerability about their struggles and wins, and playful banter, they aim to offer hope, laughter, and validation for anyone navigating motherhood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Postpartum Real Talk: The Not-So-Glorious Details

[timestamps: 00:52–01:27; 82:09–84:14]

• Abby opens up about having someone photograph her placenta ("I was actually offended. And look at my progression. Now I’m eating it." – Abby [00:52])
• The trio candidly describe the physical realities postpartum—showers, blood, milk, sweat, and tears.
  • “I took three showers a day postpartum, because you got the sweat, you got the blood, you got the milk, and you got the tears. Don’t forget the tears.” – Abby Howard [01:13]
  • Abby and Abby share the shocking postpartum sweats and sensory changes after C-sections (“My hair was wet. Soaked wet… It took like a week for them to…” [82:50])
• Discussion of wild bodily sensations unique to C-sections, like feeling organs “fall into that cavity” when moving (“It's like you're going down an elevator, but it's just your insides.” – Abby [85:19])

2. Community, Family, & Food

[timestamps: 02:14–04:24; 76:10–81:55]

• Storytelling about the Sable bakery craze—finding joy in sharing a coveted $10 cookie among friends and family.
• Hosting a memorable magician (Nate Bargatze's dad) at a family party and how bringing people together matters during seasons of stress and celebration.
• The importance of meal trains and the etiquette of bringing help to new moms—meals, snacks, laundry, taking older siblings on outings, and managing dropoffs vs. visits.
  • “Just asking clarifying questions, like, do you want me to stay?... Just asking, not assuming. I think those things are really caring.” – Abby Howard [77:33]
  • “Something that I started doing... I would bring stuff for the older kids because... that guilt can really get you.” – Abby [81:41]

3. Mental Health, Therapy & Shame-Free Support

[timestamps: 08:36–13:05; 15:17–17:32; 27:59–29:49]

• Abby's therapy journey and her work on anger management and emotional regulation in the context of postpartum and marriage.
  • “I just expected a different reaction from you, and you didn’t do it. And I was like, it felt so good… I genuinely don’t feel that anger anymore.” – Abby [10:00]
• Both Abbys and Addie reflect on depression and mood swings after having kids—including hormone shifts, rage, and the relief of being validated by partners.
  • “I’ve never felt that before. So maybe it can stay.” – Abby Howard (on her short-lived depression following weaning) [16:24]
• Endorsement of accessible therapy through BetterHelp and normalization of getting professional support.

4. Physical vs. Mental Recovery

[timestamps: 29:33–31:43]

• Each discuss what was harder: physical or mental recovery after birth.
  • Physical struggles: complications from C-sections, broken tailbones, and hemorrhoids.
  • Mental struggles: anxiety, rage, depressive dips, and the unpredictable waves of emotional adjustment.
• “Postpartum can look so many different ways. Even going into this next season... it’s gonna be what it’s gonna be.” – Abby [31:19]

5. Every Mom’s Experience Is Unique

[timestamps: 31:43–34:26; 47:26–51:08]

• Confidence and humility as returning postpartum moms—learning not to expect repeat experiences.
• Pattern recognition: Many note a particularly hard stretch at 4 months postpartum, often linked to exhaustion and transitions like sleep training.
  • “Four months, I was like, oh, shoot... I cannot do it anymore. So when I started, I was like, wake up and give her a bottle. I need one more hour of sleep together.” – Addie [49:29]
• Milestones: Many feel a shift at 6 months (“At six months, I was kind of like, yeehaw.” – Abby [50:23]), with brain fog lifting and routines becoming easier.

6. Boundary Setting & Family Dynamics

[timestamps: 66:06–72:27]

• Viral TikTok about new parents enforcing boundaries with family, and the group’s views on welcoming help vs. setting limits.
  • “Let the grandmas in... it is something for the whole family.” – Abby [69:03]
  • They acknowledge nuance: boundaries may be different depending on family dynamics, but stress that community is often a source of healing and help in postpartum.
• Abby’s decision for no overnight guests for a month, to allow rest and recovery on her own terms—even if well-meaning family want to visit.

7. Breastfeeding, Hunger, & Physical Oddities

[timestamps: 53:46–56:14; 73:41–74:33; 84:44–85:21]

• All are shocked by the intensity of breastfeeding hunger and thirst, which outpaces pregnancy hunger.
  • “I would eat it all…so hungry. The hunger and thirst when you’re early breastfeeding is there.” – Abby [54:23]
• Descriptions of “sundown scaries” (evening anxiety), and their unique postpartum routines—like being almost always naked due to breastfeeding logistics.

8. Placenta Encapsulation & New-Age Postpartum Aids

[timestamps: 41:17–44:41]

• Abby describes considering placenta encapsulation (dehydrating and consuming placenta pills) on her third postpartum journey.
• The hosts keep the tone humorous (“I was actually offended. And look at my progression now. I’m eating it… Eating it.” – Abby [43:30]), but admit that evidence is mixed and everyone’s entitled to try what works for them.

9. Musings & Memorable Moments

• Embarrassing stories about accidental “big dogging” other moms with Instagram followings, social mishaps at kids’ gymnastics, and funny sibling dynamics.
• The importance of routines—for example, weekly bakery or donut outings with children for joy and connection.
• Spontaneous chatter about massive ultramarathons (Cocodonuts 250), running, and expectations of post-baby “doing hard things.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I took three showers a day postpartum, because you got the sweat, you got the blood, you got the milk, and you got the tears. Don’t forget the tears.” – Abby Howard [01:13]
• “It’s like you’re going down an elevator, but it’s just your insides.” – Abby [85:19]
• “I was actually offended. And look at my progression now. I’m eating it.” – Abby [00:52] (on placenta photos)
• “I think we originally think about postpartum just those first six weeks, but that whole year to 18 months after birth.” – Abby Howard [46:48]
• “Let people love your baby and like, help your baby. And let them come celebrate your baby for a night and then let them leave.” – Abby Howard [69:24]
• “I felt like a caged animal both times…just tears every second. My eyes were swollen shut from crying so hard.” – Abby [40:00]
• “Mental health struggles postpartum are so normal, and asking for help is a win.” – Abby [Throughout]
• “Remember, we’re always here.” – Abby Howard [106:37]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Placenta, Organs & Body Shocks: 00:52–01:13, 85:00–85:51
• Baking Craze & Family Routines: 02:14–04:30
• Embarrassing Influencer Meetings: 05:05–07:23
• Therapy, Anger & Mental Health: 08:36–13:05
• Hormonal/Mood Shifts Post-Weaning: 15:17–17:32, 27:59–29:49
• Party Planning & Family Support: 18:07–22:29
• Physical vs. Emotional Recovery: 29:33–31:43
• Birth Trauma & Team Experience: 33:21–34:26
• Boundary Stories from TikTok: 66:06–72:27
• Meal Train Best Practices: 75:31–81:55
• Sweating, Tears, & C-section Woes: 82:09–85:21

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Listener Q&A & Closing

• The hosts answer listener voicemails on how to shower with kids at home, favorite sibling memories, and bad habits they wish to break. The tone is playful, validating, and accessible.
• Abby launches her first-ever mascara with Bismill Beauty, sharing her nerves and excitement about becoming a new mompreneur.

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Episode Tone & Style

This episode blends humor, vulnerability, and sisterly support. The hosts never shy away from the "unfiltered" parts—the blood, sweat, tears, and mood swings—but keep the atmosphere light-hearted and full of practical wisdom. Their candidness and camaraderie offer real hope and laughter for anyone in the thick of postpartum (or supporting someone who is).

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Summary Conclusion:
Whether you're a postpartum mom, a family member, or a supportive friend, this episode is a must-listen for anyone wanting sincere insights, actionable advice, and a good laugh about the realities of new motherhood. The perfect mix of education, empathy, and fun, “Always Here” truly lives up to its name.

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For full episode, search “Always Here – An Unfiltered Conversation about Postpartum” (July 10, 2026)

Transcript

[Addie]

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[Abby Howard]

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[Abby]

We had someone take a photo of our placenta, and I was actually offended. And look at my progression. Now I'm eating it. The thing that shocked me the most was the way that my organs just felt. Fell into that cavity. Whenever I would get out of bed, I'd be like.

[Abby Howard]

I was like, oh, whoa, I'm gonna throw up. That was a crazy feeling.

[Abby]

It's like you're going down an elevator, but it's just your insides.

[Abby Howard]

I took three showers a day postpartum

[Abby]

because you got the sweat, you got

[Abby Howard]

the blood, you got the milk, and you got the tears. Don't forget the tears.

[Abby]

Welcome back to Always here. We're your hosts, Abby Howard and Abby Howard. Happy Friday.

[Abby Howard]

Welcome to the weekend, ladies.

[Abby]

I love Fridays.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, they're good energy.

[Abby]

They're good energy.

[Abby Howard]

I started doing this thing with CJ where I take him to get a donut every Friday. Yeah. Caleb was like, maybe we shouldn't do that every Friday. He's like, a donut seems a little crazy. And I was like, well, it's for the children's children. It's for the joy.

[Abby]

Where are you getting them from?

[Abby Howard]

Just bosa.

[Abby]

Guess what I got today.

[Abby Howard]

What?

[Abby]

Sable. How you guys and you didn't share? Well, wait, listen.

[Abby Howard]

Wait. Did you get up at 5am no. I'm so jealous.

[Abby]

So sorry. Listen, how this just happened, it just was pure. Just luck.

[Abby Howard]

Were they not sold out?

[Addie]

No, they were not sold out.

[Abby]

Today we went to the splash pad, and it's right across.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And apparently people line up. Okay. So if you guys don't know, there's this bakery that absolutely blew up close to where we live, and it's called Sable.

[Abby Howard]

Okay.

[Abby]

Wow. And Abby and Addie are the Ones that like. And my mom.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And Caleb. Everyone's been talking about it, and it's just been a craze. Like, people will literally line up at 4am yeah.

[Abby Howard]

For about six weeks. I feel like it's been like that.

[Abby]

It hasn't stopped down. There was still a line when we got there at 10:30 or whatever it was.

[Abby Howard]

Wow.

[Abby]

And I just, like, looked across and. And the line was like, they were, like, shutting down the queue. And I was like, I'm just gonna ask if they. And they, like, let me in. And then they completely shut it off. You're the last person, Everybody. And they're like, we have seven items left, and there's seven people in line, so everyone can have one. Like, they're. It's like.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

They limit everything.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

It's like, that high of demand. I said, matt, why was it that I felt like the luckiest person in the world that I got to buy a $10 cookie?

[Abby Howard]

You owe you, like, a 10.

[Addie]

I was wondering what cookies were left,

[Abby]

which is what I wanted to try.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, interesting. Everything else?

[Abby]

Well, that's what's left.

[Addie]

And.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But I. I'm not like, the hugest pastry. Like, I like pastries, but I always like. I love a cookie.

[Abby Howard]

Sure.

[Abby]

And it's a huge cookie. And when I tell you that seven people split this cookie because we all wanted to try it.

[Addie]

You shared your cookie with everyone.

[Abby]

I did. I shared it with everyone. What, the other friend of mine?

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

There was only cookies left.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, so you didn't share your cookie with the people online?

[Abby]

No.

[Abby Howard]

You're FL with the girlfriend.

[Abby]

I shared. Everyone there had their own cookie.

[Abby Howard]

I should have gone to the splash pad. Dang.

[Abby]

It was very special.

[Abby Howard]

Was it good?

[Abby]

It was really. It was so buttery.

[Abby Howard]

Was it worth it?

[Addie]

Like, there's something green on it.

[Abby]

Peanut butter and milk chocolate or something like that. It's very fancy. And I will tell you, almost a seventh was, like. Almost enough. Yeah. It's very rich. Like, the most buttery cookie. Like, you pick the cookie up, it's like oil all around because it's so buttery. But you can tell it's good stuff. I thought it was divine.

[Abby Howard]

Okay.

[Abby]

Yummy. I don't know that I would wait hours for it, but I think that if I was a grandma and retired, I would.

[Abby Howard]

Your time. Caleb and I were joking on Father's Day because he was waking up super early to. On Father's Day. Had to go let his crew out. So let his crew out like the dogs. Sorry. He had to go help his crew out.

[Abby]

Help his crew out. Okay.

[Abby Howard]

At 4 in the, like 4:30 in the morning. And I was like, on Father's day, maybe you just get in line for sorbet on your father's day and get me some pastries.

[Abby]

He didn't do it.

[Abby Howard]

No, no.

[Abby]

Dang.

[Abby Howard]

But we thought we were joking about it.

[Abby]

You were serious?

[Abby Howard]

No, I was like, if you do. If you do.

[Abby]

Yeah, Yeah. I felt that is honoring so lucky.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. I did something really embarrassing the other day. I'm changing the subject. I was at a like a mom's gymnastics thing and there's another girl there who did Instagram and she's bigger. She has almost a million followers. My friend that I was with was like, I follow her on Instagram. Oh my gosh. I was like, you should go tell her that you follow her and just say hi. Like that always means so much. People say things. And she actually came over to me and goes, do I know you from somewhere? And I was like, oh, must be my podcast. So, so embarrassing that I said that. And then she was like, oh no, I don't think that. And I was like. And then it got worse. I name dropped ago maybe from my brother and sister in law.

[Abby]

She's like, no, never heard of it actually. Do we go to church together or something?

[Abby Howard]

I was like, I don't know, Rosie.

[Abby]

You're like, I don't do anything else.

[Abby Howard]

I texted Caleb after. I was like, that was so horrible. And she was really nice. I talked to her for like an hour.

[Abby]

She was someone else that does social media.

[Abby Howard]

Yes.

[Abby]

Well, that's why you were assumed because

[Abby Howard]

like maybe she's on the Internet. But then I was just so, so embarrassed. I'm like, did I just big dog this girl and like be super weird about.

[Addie]

She has a million followers. Yeah, almost.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, she's way bigger than me. And I'm like, it's like, oh my gosh, that was horrible. I felt really stinky inside about it.

[Abby]

But stinky numbers? Yeah. I'm so curious. Who is this?

[Abby Howard]

Her page is really cute. Everyone should look her up. Abby Flake is her name. Her name's also Abby. I was like, you're like, that's probably it.

[Abby]

I know.

[Abby Howard]

Like you probably heard of me, Abby Howard.

[Abby]

So embarrassing saying it.

[Abby Howard]

I know. I can't believe I acted like that. But I just.

[Abby]

That happened at kids gymnastics thing as well yesterday. This lady comes up, but like kind of in a different way.

[Addie]

She.

[Abby]

She waved across super big to me at the gym and I Was like, hey. You know, I just went back, and then she comes all the way over with her baby, like, on her. And she was like. She's like, hi. And I was like, hi. And then I could already tell that there was. She.

[Abby Howard]

She recognized you?

[Abby]

Well, no, I. I couldn't figure out what was happening.

[Abby Howard]

Like.

[Abby]

Like, I think she was expecting me to say something. And then I was like, wait, I actually don't know you. Yeah. Like, yeah.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And then she was like, you're in my ward. And I was like, no. And then she's like, well, oh, did we go to high school together? And then she. She kept trying another. She kept trying thing after thing, and I was, like, making me say this.

[Abby Howard]

I know. I was like, shoot.

[Abby]

And so I, like, kept. I was like, I don't know. And she's like, well, did you.

[Abby Howard]

Oh.

[Abby]

She said, do you work at the hospital?

[Abby Howard]

She's trying to figure out what she knows.

[Abby]

It was like, four things. I was like, no. I was like, do I say it?

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. What'd you say?

[Abby]

I did. I was like. To be. Because she kept trying. I was like, this lady's relentless. So nice. And then I was finally like. I was like. To be fair, I was like, me and my husband do social media. Like, so maybe you just recognize from scrolling. That's a good way to say it. And then she was like. And I was like, all right.

[Addie]

Perfect.

[Abby Howard]

Feels really good talking.

[Abby]

I can guarantee I've never.

[Abby Howard]

Don't make me say it.

[Abby]

It's not our ward. Not our ward.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, my gosh. This is really funny.

[Abby]

Anyway, we are here to share the hope in the card with heart and humor. I actually have a serious hope.

[Abby Howard]

What's a serious hope?

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

All right.

[Abby]

Serious hope.

[Abby Howard]

Drop it.

[Abby]

I'm gonna drop it. It actually is shifting yours. And, like, now I'm gonna be laughing, but it was actually. I'm proud of myself. Okay. So I started therapy, like, a year ago.

[Abby Howard]

Okay.

[Abby]

Oh, my gosh. It's been literally over. Just over a year ago, off and on. And I was like, okay. When I go in, I, like, had something else. I. That brought me in. And then I was like, okay, my sec. Once I. That goal was, like, kind of achieved. I was like, okay. My secondary goal is I really want to focus on anger management and, like, emotional regulation, which those two things are, like, kind of tied together. I think it's really important in therapy to have goals, I will say. Because sometimes I feel like I could just go in and just like.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Especially woman to woman, just chat and it's like, wait, I want to have, like, a purpose for this.

[Abby Howard]

Sure.

[Abby]

And so, like, that was my goal. I was like, I don't know how long that'll take, how it works. It was specifically for, like, my marriage, because I feel like I could. I kind of had this under wraps and, like, every other. Like, no one else could incite that out of me. And it's not him. It was just me. Like, I had no regulation there. And Matt literally said to me, like, not last night, but the night before. He was like, hey. I just, like, was thinking today. He's like, you aren't angry anymore. He's like, you don't. You don't, like, get angry. He's like, you've been like. He's like. He's like, there's been some things I feel like you should have been. Like, I just expected a different reaction from you, and you didn't do it. And I was like, that felt so good. It felt so good to hear, because I felt it.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And I didn't, Like, I didn't want

[Abby Howard]

to be like, okay, I could have gotten angry there.

[Abby]

It's been, like, eight months, and I literally haven't, like, gone crazy. So how do you feel? Like, it felt really good to have that, like, validation, too, like, that that happened, and I genuinely don't feel it inside me anymore. Like, I thought it was one of those things that I'd always just be, like, angry, and then I just have to, like, excuse myself, decompress, and then, like, enter back in the conversation. But it's like, no. Like, literally, I just don't even feel that, like, anger anymore. And I noticed that a long time ago, like, in myself. But then for that to also be, like, something that he noticed, too, felt like the final. Like, this doesn't mean that I won't ever struggle with it, I don't think, but, like, a major win.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And I didn't think that that was possible. And I feel like that's a lot of. I don't know. That was, like, something I was like, I'll just always have to just try to manage that and, like, muscle through and fight against that. But I don't feel that way. Like, I feel like I just genuinely don't feel like, that angry anymore.

[Abby Howard]

That's amazing. Yeah. That's really. I know.

[Abby]

I felt really good. I was like, thank you so much for saying that.

[Abby Howard]

That's cool.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

It's, like, fun to go back and tell your therapist, oh, yeah.

[Abby]

I haven't been in a While.

[Abby Howard]

So I will send her an email. Was it. Did she give you specific things in the moment to help you?

[Abby]

Like, that's how it started. That's how it started. And sometimes I was like, that didn't work. Or, like, things like that. So it started with, like, tools, like, in the moment, basically, to just, like, slow that impulse. Because I feel like, for me, like, it was, like, just a reactionary thing. And then I, like, couldn't, like, even in the moment. Then I was like, I. Well, actually, here's how it worked. It was, like an impulse thing. And then I would fight for a while, and then I would be like, wait, I'm not even. Like, I would realize it, but it took a long time. Then I would react and then immediately be like, wait, that was messed up. And then, like, that. That moment came sooner. And then I'd be like, hey, can I try that again? And then. And then I would feel it, and then I would take a break and come back. And then it just, like, kept. There was, like, a whole progression of it. And it's not like, something that I constantly had in the forefront of my mind. But I think that's the whole point, is that's why it was hard to fix. Yeah. Because it was just like a impulse thing.

[Abby Howard]

Wow. Yeah. That's so exciting.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

That's awesome.

[Abby]

I know you've been working on being less of a rage monster.

[Abby Howard]

I know we used to joke about that sometimes, you know, and now it's like, oh, so good to hear.

[Abby]

It's in my. It's in my DNA.

[Abby Howard]

I mean, I wasn't gonna put them on black. That's such a win. I'm proud of you.

[Abby]

Thank you. What's your hope?

[Abby Howard]

I feel like I'm getting my pink. Little bit.

[Addie]

Yes.

[Abby Howard]

I mean, when you hear my heart, you'd be like, is she. But if you don't know the term getting your pink back, like, after a flamingo gives birth. I never really was, like, super moved by this. I do think it's cool, but a flingamingo gives birth, sheds all their white feathers, and then as they go along, their pink starts to come back. Like. Right. Isn't that true?

[Abby]

They shed their feathers?

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. They lose their pink or they turn white.

[Abby]

I think they keep their feathers, but

[Addie]

I don't know if they're feathers.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

Okay. So the flamingos, they turn colors.

[Abby]

Yeah, they're just. Flamingo just.

[Abby Howard]

I get naked.

[Abby]

We get the point.

[Addie]

They pour so much energy and nutrients into their offspring that their feathers can lose their vibrant color. And turn gray or faded.

[Abby Howard]

Well, over time, I can add to that a lot more than this.

[Addie]

That's moving over time with rest. That's right. And nourishment, their pink colors return.

[Abby Howard]

Well, shoot, that makes more sense, doesn't it?

[Addie]

They don't lose all mixture.

[Abby]

I was never super moved by this,

[Abby Howard]

but, well, now I might shed a tear.

[Abby]

It's like they give so much to their babies, lose all their hair.

[Abby Howard]

Okay. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I lose my hair. Well, that's beautiful. And then it comes back.

[Abby]

The pink comes back.

[Abby Howard]

So I feel like my pink is coming back. And that's been fun.

[Abby]

You look nutrient dense. Thank you. You do look rested.

[Abby Howard]

Thank you. Yeah, I'm rested. My skin is like starting to come back to its normal.

[Abby]

You're glowing.

[Abby Howard]

I can't think of words today, but my skin is coming back to its normal self. My hair is growing back. Back in the gym, feeling strong. Laid out yesterday. Getting lots of sunshine. I know, it's just been great.

[Abby]

Okay, well, what's your heart?

[Abby Howard]

My heart is. I've been a little depressed.

[Abby]

As you laugh.

[Abby Howard]

No, I was really depressed last week, which I don't say that lightly. I always make this joke. This might be a bad joke. We can cut this out. This is a bad joke. But I tell Caleb, I'm like, I tried it. It didn't stick with me. Like, depression in me just don't really go hand in hand. Okay. Okay. That's stupid. But I normally just like have a very go with the flow, optimistic perspective on life. But last week I just felt really down. Like super low motor, like, no motivation. Stayed up late, scrolling, just didn't want to go to bed. Just nothing was fun that I did. I was like, there was just not a lot of excitement in anything. And I told Caleb. I was like, I think I've pegged what I feel. I'm not teary or weepy. I'm just sad.

[Abby]

Like low.

[Abby Howard]

I just felt really sad all week. But I looked it up. It's been about three weeks, I think, since I stopped nursing. And that's when the peak hormone shift is, which I assumed it was probably related to being done breastfeeding, which I think made me feel a lot better in that. And I already feel like I've come out of it. But there was like a solid week there where I was like, really down.

[Abby]

That's scary.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

A week is a long time to feel low like that.

[Abby Howard]

Yes. I'm pretty not self aware, so I didn't really know it in the moment. But then, like, after four days, I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I was actually telling them I don't like it. I'm killed. Because I was like. He was like, the magician was amazing. And I was like, yeah. And he was like, you didn't think it was amazing? And I was like, yeah. And then Toy Story 5, I was like, it was fine. Like, everything that was really amazing and fun was, like, not that exciting to me. I know not to dog on the magician because I loved him. He was amazing. But I just was like, that's the

[Abby]

thing about it, though. Like, it just kind of like turns the color out of every. Takes the color of everything.

[Abby Howard]

That's how it felt. Yeah. But I feel back.

[Abby]

Okay.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, I think it shifted, but I just googled it and it was really,

[Abby]

if it comes back, I will.

[Abby Howard]

I've never felt that before, so maybe it can stay.

[Abby]

You know, when I felt that postpartum.

[Abby Howard]

Postpartum, which is what we're talking about today.

[Abby]

But I think we have a few things to talk about first. This show is sponsored by Better Help. We talk about mental health more openly now, but asking for help can still feel hard. And Better Help's latest research confirms that their 2026 State of Stigma reports surveyed 2,000Americans and revealed that 85% of Americans believe getting support is wise, yet 74% say society discourages people from actually doing so. And what's great about BetterHelp is that they make therapy accessible wherever you are, whether online or through the app. I recently shared a win I had in therapy. One of my goals was working on anger management and emotional regulation. And through having the help of a good therapist that I could meet with regularly, I feel like I've had a major win in that area. I don't even feel nearly as angry. And I think that my family is benefiting because of that. And that's really what motivated me personally to seek therapy more than anything was becoming a mom. And having people that I just always want to show up as the best version of myself for and Better Help is an amazing entry point for that.

[Abby Howard]

Totally. And finding the right therapist that can help you, teach you the tools and help you just grow in those areas is also really important. And Better Help has a short questionnaire that helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience in industry leading Match fulfillment rate means BetterHelp typically gets it right the first time. But if you're not happy with your match switching to a different therapist at any time from their Tailored Rex is very simple.

[Abby]

Don't let Sigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with BetterHelp. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] always. That's better. H E L P.com always.

[Abby Howard]

Did you guys have fun with the magician?

[Abby]

I did. I was, like, a little bit stressed. Like, when you're hosting, you're like, I just want everyone to, like, have fun, have fun. I was stressed that they wouldn't be able to hear him.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, I heard fine.

[Abby]

Okay, good.

[Abby Howard]

And I stood in the back a lot with Vivian.

[Abby]

I was fine.

[Addie]

I was in the back, too.

[Abby]

Great. And the kids, I was like, they're so young for it. But, yeah, we brought a magician to our house. And not just any magician. It was actually Nate Bargettzi's dad.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Who we had seen perform on Valentine's Day, actually, of this year. And just a little backstory. I took it upon myself to move my dad's birthday because his birthday is on this baby's due date.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And I was like, officially, you can't have August 11th anymore.

[Abby Howard]

Right.

[Abby]

Of course. And also, my other son's birthday is August 10th, so I was like, we can't do the day before. Or actually, in fact, let's move it completely because there's just so much going on.

[Abby Howard]

Right.

[Abby]

And June, we did it big. But my dad's also very introverted, so we didn't tell him that it was a birthday party for him. We also didn't put on the invites or anything like that. He still called him out. And I was like, oh, no. He doesn't know how serious it is that you cannot acknowledge him. I literally remember growing up, like, when I'd go to friends houses and, like, their dad would talk to me, I would literally be like, why is I. I mean, for a long time, I couldn't peg that. I was like, why am I creeped out by other people's dads? And I was like, I'm not creeped out. I just am so unaware of this type of interaction.

[Addie]

Blake would not do that either. I'm thinking about Blake, like, ever talking to someone else's, like, teenage girl, like, Brielle's teenage girlfriends, ever. He wouldn't be there. He'd be in a different room.

[Abby]

That was like, my dad. So then I was like, what's your dad doing here? He's literally just, like, in the house. Like, my dad would literally, like, hide. Unless they were, like, a really close friend.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

So, no, I think he had a good time. I asked him afterwards, I was like, you swear it wasn't too much? Because he got a little involved in the show. There's a lot of interaction.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, it's great.

[Abby]

Like, crowd work and Stephen Bargetti. You said magic show. And he's hilarious too.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And I thought it was so funny, though, after the magic show, we had a ton of kids there that I think a lot of it went way over their head because they're all so little, but all the dads.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Just gravitated towards him. They're like, tell me more magic. And then I started talking to all their wives. They're like, yes. They, like, they love magic. Talk about their husband.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, they do.

[Abby]

I feel like Caleb would be really into. Caleb was really into magic. A lot of our friends. It was fun.

[Abby Howard]

It was. I wanted to go after two and see more, but I just, like, I had to watch the. The children's.

[Abby]

Yeah, C.J. did fall off the swing.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, he did, exactly. So I was like, you know, I'll. I'll. I'll just hear from it for secondhand

[Abby]

saying it, but it was.

[Abby Howard]

I didn't realize, because I'd actually never seen a magician before. I didn't realize. It was, like a full thing. Like, he was a comedian, an entertainer. Like, it was.

[Addie]

I mean, in the crowd, 45 minutes of. And then talk.

[Abby Howard]

It was very impressive.

[Abby]

When I saw him perform, it was. I said. I cried, I laughed, and my jaw hit the floor because he is. Magic was so cool. He's hilarious. But then also, he did, like, a mini sermon at one point, like, based on his life experience, too. And it was just, like, so full circle. I was like, what just happened?

[Abby Howard]

I was like, we need to.

[Abby]

We need to bring it to our house.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Abby]

He's the nice guy.

[Abby Howard]

That was a good party idea.

[Abby]

Thank you. I had a blast. I was like, matt, thank you for putting up with all of my shenanigans, because I just remember just being like, hey, Matt, I got this idea. And he was like, okay, okay. And then I think that day, he was like, oh, my gosh, I have to move all the furniture out of this house.

[Abby Howard]

Right. That was a big task.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

I know.

[Abby Howard]

And I was like, Caleb loved him.

[Abby]

Hanging.

[Addie]

So luckily, Blake showed up.

[Abby]

Yeah. Caleb was supposed to be there.

[Abby Howard]

Caleb was supposed to be there. And then Caleb could not get off his job site.

[Abby]

Well, Matt called him 30 minutes after he was supposed to be here. He's like, right, I'm in Scottsdale.

[Abby Howard]

Where you at? Scott. Okay, I guess. Heads up. I Don't know.

[Abby]

Like, Caleb was confused why he was asking where he was.

[Addie]

No problem.

[Abby]

Blake was there. Bl.

[Abby Howard]

Good.

[Abby]

Blake is actually pretty Mr. Reliable.

[Abby Howard]

Honestly.

[Addie]

That's good. Yeah. If I tell him to be there, he'll be there.

[Abby]

He will be there.

[Addie]

Perfect.

[Abby]

Because you will remind him of.

[Addie]

Yeah, yeah. I said, hey, will you please help your sister tomorrow? That was nice.

[Abby Howard]

That's sweet. I'm glad Kale pull through.

[Abby]

No problem. He helped a lot afterwards. It was a great time.

[Abby Howard]

It was so great. We have a weekend full of shenanigans, too, so quintennial, you guys.

[Abby]

There are so many shenanigans coming up.

[Abby Howard]

We're throwing a party for Val All American Valley.

[Abby]

I have to say, I'm so sorry if I for the confusion that happened on my Instagram story. This is only for a few people, but I reshared a story from the gym, and it was like, Abby and Val are crushing it. It's not our vow. Like, this Val is another Val and awesome. I got so many messages that are like, the Val and they're like the legend and, like, sending me all these things. I was like, oh, I love this vowel too, but not different vowel. Not the vowel that we've been referring to. And so I was like, I wonder if she's gotten any weird messages, but, like, unexpected messages. I don't even think she knows any.

[Abby Howard]

She's like, what are we talking about? Podcast? She's like, who.

[Abby]

Who's Abby?

[Abby Howard]

I know. That's great.

[Abby]

Yeah. Wow, that's crazy.

[Abby Howard]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Abby]

That crazy.

[Abby Howard]

I do have a quick. Wow, that's crazy. Have you heard of the Coco Donut 250?

[Abby]

Have you heard of it? Say that one more time.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, Coco Dono 250. Have you heard of it, Hannah? Easy native. It's a foot race. Well, wait a minute. Let me rephrase this. It's a marathon. 250 miles. And they run marathon through.

[Abby]

It's.

[Abby Howard]

You're right. It's nine marathons. And they run through Arizona. Like, up in Watson Lake and Prescott. They go to Sedona, and they're running

[Abby]

up and down in the summer.

[Abby Howard]

They just did it this past. No, I mean, that's when it popped up. It's probably in the spring, but they're. They have to pack for weather. Like, and they're literally running to the top of mountains. They only take naps. They don't sleep for five days to finish this. The girl. A girl won, and she broke the course record out of all these like men and women.

[Abby]

She broke the course record, and it

[Abby Howard]

was female, which is really cool. She did it in 56 hours. She didn't sleep for 56.

[Abby]

If you were to tell me, Abby, guess how long a really fast person would take to do 250 miles? I would.

[Abby Howard]

I wouldn't know either.

[Abby]

No idea. No. Six hours.

[Abby Howard]

But I keep getting.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

Every year.

[Abby Howard]

Apparently every year I've gotten this guy's vlog on TikTok of it. And he's an older gentleman, and he's really, like, high energy, and he'll be like, oh, it's gonna get weird tonight. The hallucinations are starting, and he's literally hallucinating while he runs. And his hallucination was, like, being chased by a bunch of roly police. Like, just really crazy stuff because he's so tired. So tired. They don't sleep and they're running. He fell asleep on the phone running. Yeah. Pretty crazy stuff. Cocodono. 250.

[Abby]

Like, they have a different.

[Abby Howard]

They run in a different speed.

[Abby]

They're different mammals.

[Abby Howard]

They. Totally different.

[Abby]

Completely different.

[Abby Howard]

Totally. This was this guy's sixth one.

[Addie]

How much do you think it is to register for that?

[Abby Howard]

I bet it's a lot.

[Abby]

Why?

[Abby Howard]

It's the.

[Abby]

It's. It shouldn't be.

[Abby Howard]

I think I'm gonna guess fifteen hundred dollars.

[Addie]

The cheapest is 1995.

[Abby Howard]

So cheapest. What are the tiers?

[Addie]

So that's until August 31st.

[Abby Howard]

Okay.

[Addie]

And then if you sign up by the end of February, it's $2,045. And then at the end of April, it is 2019.

[Abby Howard]

No, I believe it's expensive because probably not that many people do it. And then that's 250 miles that they have to make a course. And then they have aid stations with food for all of them. And then they probably have first aid. And so there's a lot that probably goes into it. They have, like, some sleep stations. They had. He got a massage at one point. So there are different things that they offer along the course, but you would

[Abby]

have to pay me a lot more than $2,000 to do that.

[Abby Howard]

You'd have to pay me $2 million to do that.

[Abby]

Two mil.

[Abby Howard]

I'd probably do it.

[Abby]

I would surely try.

[Abby Howard]

There was.

[Abby]

I'll give it a shot.

[Addie]

Blake started running. I don't know if I told you guys that he started on Monday. He's going to do a marathon at the end of the year.

[Abby Howard]

You should just sign him up for the Coco Donut.

[Addie]

250. No, he said he's going to do a Marathon on December 12th. And I said, what about a full. Yeah. Doesn't want to do it. Doesn't want to do a half.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. You said, what if I'm in labor?

[Addie]

Makes him run faster. Well, he should do it.

[Abby Howard]

That's a great goal.

[Addie]

He said all the. All of us who keep doubting that he can do a full marathon by then, keeps pushing him.

[Abby]

He's a bad runner.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, shoot. Oh.

[Addie]

He said, better.

[Abby]

Like, I remember my dad and him running. I don't think he could. He could do a 5K.

[Addie]

He did one today.

[Abby]

Okay.

[Addie]

Ten and a half mile pace.

[Abby Howard]

Well, that's more reason to do it.

[Addie]

So he's doing it because he hates running.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Addie]

But hey, he's gotten up and worked out every single day this morning. As in running or lifting weights. That's great. I swear, that just made me think.

[Abby Howard]

There's something in postpartum. And I know he's a male, but post baby, where you just. You're like, I'm ready to do hard things.

[Abby]

I did a Spartan. I think about this three months after having Augie. Yeah, that was a C section.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, you did. You asked me if I wanted to do it. I said, I am not there yet.

[Abby]

I feel fine to do it. And I actually was just thinking about that because our friends has a three month old. And I was like, wow.

[Abby Howard]

Wow, I'm crazy.

[Abby]

Well, no, because I just remember you can feel really good at that point.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But everyone's experience is so different.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, you can.

[Addie]

It's just.

[Abby Howard]

You feel still, like, weak in some areas.

[Addie]

Would you do one? Would you do one in general? No. A Spartan?

[Abby]

Yeah, I would do one.

[Addie]

We should do one next spring.

[Abby]

Spartan looks, I think hyrax. I was asked to do a hyrox and I was like, yes, because I love it. Like, I'm like, that feels fun because it's partners. Yeah. But I feel like Spartans have to be more fun. You just do so many cool things. Yeah, it's like, it's so fun.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, it's more because the hierarchical is just like running and jumping lunges.

[Abby]

When I saw lunges. That doesn't look fun. Fun at all.

[Abby Howard]

No. And it's inside.

[Abby]

Like, there's rope climbs. There's like, you're getting dirty. Like, if you're. You're going through mud. Like, it is really intense.

[Abby Howard]

I would totally do that. Let's do it. Okay. Let's do.

[Abby]

There's one in November probably, and in February. We can't do that one.

[Abby Howard]

We can Do.

[Addie]

I'll come cheer you guys on.

[Abby Howard]

We should do an older event at this party.

[Abby]

We get our bandanas.

[Abby Howard]

Always.

[Addie]

Don't do what I can't do it. Shoot right at you guys. Please. Can I do. Will they allow me to run? I can't do the opposite.

[Abby]

Could you come with us?

[Addie]

Yeah, run the course with us.

[Abby]

You just do the penalty for every obstacle.

[Abby Howard]

Wow. That'd be fun.

[Abby]

No, I couldn't do three of them last time. The monkey bars are really, really hard.

[Abby Howard]

And the train that.

[Abby]

No, it's the. There's my hands. Literally. They're thick. Monkey bars.

[Abby Howard]

That's one of the things. It's a ring.

[Abby]

The ring. Monkey bars and then regular monkey bars. Oh, they were a lot easier when you were a kid. Trust.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, I believe that I used to be really good at those. Oh, I kind of mentioned it. When you do hard things. Postpartum, we mentioned a couple times. Depression, hard stuff. Sorry, I can't be serious. Postpartum. That's what we're talking about today. I feel like this has been a highly requested episode.

[Abby]

Okay.

[Abby Howard]

Talking about our experiences. Postpartum, we both had. I've had two, You've had three. You're gonna have your fourth. Addie, you've had one, you're gonna have your second. So just. Just postpartum in general, just how hard it is. Things that were hard, things that we thought were easy overall, our experience.

[Abby]

Yeah. What would you say, just to start off the conversation is harder for you guys? Like physical struggles after postpartum or mental struggles?

[Abby Howard]

I've had both. C.J. was physical. I thought emotionally. I felt fine. Vivian, I thought emotionally was harder for me.

[Abby]

Really?

[Abby Howard]

Okay.

[Abby]

Addie, how about you?

[Addie]

Mine was physical. The first time. I've only done one, mostly because, I swear I broke my tailbone and I had a million hemorrhoids, so I couldn't move or sit comfortably. Blake had to walk me up the stairs when we got home from, like, People are dancing at the hospital, not me.

[Abby Howard]

Okay, but you also live on the third floor. That's a lot of stairs.

[Addie]

I know, but I couldn't walk up the stairs straight. I had to turn sideways because I don't know why.

[Abby Howard]

That's different, Addy. That's.

[Addie]

I had a little bit. I had a little bit tailbone issue, so mine was fish. Magical. Why did I just list.

[Abby]

That's on. That's unusual. I feel like the tailbone.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

I don't know what happened to you too.

[Abby]

No, my. I have the weirdest tailbone ever. But it's never bothered me.

[Abby Howard]

Okay.

[Abby]

Postpartum, mine is always mental.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, always.

[Abby]

I feel like I felt really physically good every time, which is. Yeah, I think. I don't know. I don't really know why.

[Addie]

I don't.

[Abby]

I got lucky.

[Abby Howard]

No, I think every person's so different. You're very strong physically. Like, very strong. You were strong going into both pregnancies. I wasn't very strong going into CJ's pregnancy. And I think that made a big difference. I mean, I just ran. And then during that pregnancy, I worked out a little bit, but it was light. I just. I wasn't in. I wasn't at burn.

[Abby]

Like, I remember every time, like, wanting to do more than they were clearing me to do. So then when people are like, I'm clear, but there's no. No way I can do that. I just. I'm not thinking.

[Addie]

I'm.

[Abby]

I totally believe them, but I'm just like, that wasn't my experience.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And so. Yeah, I think that just goes to say that postpartum can look so many different ways. And even going into this, like, next season, about to be postpartum again, I think more than ever, I'm like, it. It's gonna be what it's gonna be like. I. I can go in with, like, expectations, but I just know that whenever I do that, I just end up getting humbled really quick. So I'm like, we'll just see what happens.

[Abby Howard]

I went in so cocky to Vivian's. I was like, it's gonna be easy. I already know how to do the baby stuff. Not a big deal. And then I felt like I was emotionally rocked a little bit.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

And with cj, I think, you know, I had a pretty hard labor with him, and so that really threw me for a loop physically. I mean, I can slightly recap it, but. Went in induced for three days, pushed, got to the push stage, pushed for three and a half hours. Went in for an urgency section. I don't think it was emergency. I think it was just urgent.

[Abby]

But you had an infection.

[Abby Howard]

I did. I got an infection. His heart rate started to drop, but they gave me, like, 30 minutes while they, like, prepped everything. It wasn't like they took me out.

[Abby]

Yeah. I remember feeling surprised by that. I was like, get a written.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, I thought so, too, because the medicine was, you know, I would have to go into it, but it was painful. And then I went in hemorrhaged. I lost half of my blood volume. They should have given me a blood transfusion to this day, my sister's like, I can't believe they didn't. And then TJ was in the nicu, so it was just a really, really, really hard recovery. And I remember feeling in a lot of pain for a while, and. And just, like, my energy was so low, I had no strength in my body for a couple weeks. It felt like. So that was really hard physically. And I think the challenges after a C section, like, you know, you're. It's hard to sit up in bed at night, and we didn't have a good bed, and I didn't. You know, our setup wasn't the best, and I just wasn't prepared. Prepared in our home even to accommodate some of those things. I needed. Like, I probably need to sleep in a recliner and, you know, some stuff. But I just remember physically being like, whoa, I got rocked. But I think that's what made the switch in my brain. And now I feel really, like, obsessive about never feeling weak again. Like that. Like, it kind of triggered something in me. A fear response.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

I better get it freaking together, because I never want to feel like that again.

[Abby]

You're right. We actually met with a doula last week, and me and Matt met with a doula in our house. And she. Well, this is funny. She started off by saying, like, hey, when it comes to birth, which obviously, like, I feel like your birth experience really shapes your postpartum experience.

[Abby Howard]

Totally agree.

[Abby]

Or it can sometimes. Not always the case, but a lot of times it does. And she's like, I want you to start, Matt. Like, if you were to think of one word, like, when you think about birth, like, what. What would you say? And he was like, trauma, dude.

[Abby Howard]

And I was like.

[Abby]

She's like, that is the answer I almost always get from the husband. She's like, now, Abby, what would you say? And she didn't. She wasn't, like, trying to be like, she wasn't setting me up for any certain answer, but I was like, game day. Yeah, literally. And she was like, see, this is more typical of what I experienced because we do have that, like, hormone boost and, like, all those things that the dads don't get, but they're like, they see it all. They remember it all.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Or we have, like, that type of amnesia or whatever you want to call it. But so that kind of just like, set off, like, my thought of, like, wow, It's. It's such. Postpartum is such a team experience. I feel like if you, like, have. If you're going through it, With a spouse or a partner, like, that just shapes everything too. But it was funny because also during that, she asked me, she was like, like, what questions do you have for me? And I was like, sitting there thinking. I was like, I feel like having, like, done this before. I was like, okay. I feel like I've collected every birth experience. I have induction vaginal delivery and then a scheduled C section. I was like, I don't have, like, a thought frame reference for emergency C section, which I feel like duos aren't really, like, necessarily. That's like, their worst case scenario. I would say.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, it's like their last.

[Abby]

And I was like, but can you kind of just walk me through what to expect if this ends in an emergency C section? Because I, like, for. In my head, I. I actually realized. I was like, I. I. If I were to put percentages, I think zero percent, and that's not realistic. Like, and so I was like, please give me a frame for, like, what this could look like. And she kind of walked me through that. But, yeah, I think a lot of my confidence going into postpartum is good. Related to my confidence going into birth, which is not necessarily founded. Like, so I'm like, this is shaky territory starting this all on. So I'm like, oh, boy.

[Addie]

I just texted Blake to ask him the same question because I'm curious what he would say. Like, what's one word to describe? He said, quick.

[Abby]

Oh.

[Addie]

And then he said, scary for labor. I said, from our birth experience. From my birth experience. That's what he said. So.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, interesting.

[Abby]

Well, this is also speaking of Blake, the made part of our birth plan for Matt to catch the baby. And so I asked Blake, Blake, Addie's husband, my brother. I was like, blake, would you ever catch the baby, like, during a delivery? And he's like, he re. First off the bat, he was like, yeah. He goes. I actually think I'm more of a by the shoulder guy.

[Addie]

I asked him the other day, I said, did you, like, look at all? Like, surely. He goes, a little bit. But, like, no, he didn't.

[Abby]

I don't believe it.

[Abby Howard]

That's so funny. I had the mirror, and Caleb was like, wow.

[Abby]

Matt's very curious too.

[Abby Howard]

I think Caleb watched the C section too.

[Abby]

Like, Matt watched the whole thing, all of it.

[Abby Howard]

I'm glad they're not.

[Abby]

I wanted him to, though, and I don't really know why, but I did. I, like, I was like, I'm not. I don't want to see it, but I need you to see it.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, I definitely was going to panic if I saw that. My insides.

[Abby]

Well, I actually kind of saw it in the light in the reflection.

[Addie]

Shoot.

[Abby Howard]

Throw me up. Throw up.

[Abby]

I think they give you some medication to give you no anxiety or something.

[Abby Howard]

I asked for that.

[Abby]

It didn't work.

[Abby Howard]

I said, I think I might have a panic attack. She's like, I can't give you anything until they cut you open.

[Abby]

I was like, oh, so then maybe I didn't have any.

[Abby Howard]

Or they can't give you anything until after the baby's out, so maybe I didn't. I was like, well, I need it before that. I just closed my eyes.

[Abby]

Thank you to Merit Beauty for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

[Abby Howard]

If there's one brand that I scream from the rooftops over and over and over again that I just love, it is Merit Beauty. I wear so much so many of their products. Let's be honest, if a routine takes longer than five minutes, it's probably just not happening. And that's why Merit Beauty believes great makeup should be effortless. They're clean, thoughtfully curated essentials help you get a fresh, polished look in minutes with products you can swipe on, blend with your fingers, and move on with your day. I love their flush Bomb in the color archival. It's really natural. I like a berry tone.

[Abby]

I feel like their makeup just makes me feel put together, but in such a beautifully natural way that just enhances what I already have going on. I personally love their minimalist stick. It's double duty as both a foundation and a concealer. And you can get such quick but great coverage without layering on a bunch of the product. I literally put it on like a crayon. Use their brush to blend it in, and it's like I have a whole new layer of skin, but it still looks like nothing's on my face for sure. I also love their skincare. So if it's a no makeup day, no prime problem.

[Abby Howard]

The Merit Great Skin serum is. It's really all you need. It instantly hydrates. It makes my skin look plump, fresh, very dewy look. I wear it underneath my moisturizer or underneath my makeup, and it just gives me a nice natural glow throughout the day. It is time for your makeup and skincare to meet the reality of your daily routine with Merit Beauty. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering our listeners their signature makeup bag with your first [e-mail] that's M E E-R-I-T beauty.com to get your free signature makeup bag. With your first order, merit, beauty.com.

[Addie]

there's no way Blake would look at a C section. Not a chance.

[Abby]

No, I wouldn't want to.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

I was just oddly calm.

[Abby Howard]

So what did she say about the emergency? Did she give you good expectations?

[Abby]

She's like, well, honestly, it'll happen really, really quick.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Like, she's like, you'll just. And then it'll be similar to your scheduled. I mean, I know what a C section is. She's like. But you'll know really quickly if you're gonna have to switch gears into that. So it's basically like you'll just switch gears from your vaginal delivery frame of reference to your C section.

[Abby Howard]

A hard transition.

[Abby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, all right, well, I'll just. I know myself. I'll just process that all about four weeks later.

[Abby Howard]

Did you feel like a difference between your postpartums?

[Abby]

They were pretty similar.

[Abby Howard]

Similar, yeah.

[Abby]

Yeah. And I feel like, for me, always, day two is when crap hits a fan.

[Abby Howard]

It's interesting. With your second, you can pick up patterns, which is helpful for your subsequent.

[Abby]

Yeah, I think that is good. You're gonna go for more than two.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Then you can know what's a pattern and what was just a fluke. But for me, like, day two is really bad. I feel like a caged animal both times. Okay, so with my first, I was getting out of the hospital that day. My second, since I had a C section, I was still in the hospital, and I was losing my mind. I'm not even kidding, you guys. Just, like, tears every second. Like, my eyes were swollen shut from crying so hard. I felt, like, just. I felt crazy. I just remember this is so sweet and sad. My parents came in. They're, like, so excited. They thought I would be, like, so happy. And, like, they're like. And you can just see their face. And they. As soon as they open the door, they're like. And they don't even look at our baby at all. I'm gonna cry thinking about this. My dad sat on the bed. He didn't say any. Just started rubbing my.

[Abby Howard]

That's really sweet.

[Abby]

And I was just like, what's wrong with me? Like, I just didn't know what was wrong, because I was like, all I want is to be a mom. And all I. Like, I'm not even in pain. Like, I was just, like. Which I was kind of in pain, but I wasn't even thinking about that.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And then I was just, like, a mess. I don't know how to Describe it other than. I literally just felt like a rabid animal.

[Abby Howard]

Sure.

[Abby]

And I felt like that both times. So I'm like, what do we do? Well, here's what we do. I actually talked to the doula about it.

[Addie]

That's good.

[Abby]

And she's like, it's going to be so much better. She's like, you just need to do a placenta encapsulation.

[Abby Howard]

How fast is the turnaround on that?

[Abby]

I don't know. Hopefully very soon.

[Abby Howard]

It probably takes many hours for. To dehydrate it.

[Abby]

Wait a minute. You want to see something? 3 hours to dehydrate it, I think. I don't.

[Abby Howard]

I was presenting. Yeah.

[Abby]

Three hours.

[Abby Howard]

Okay. I would have thought it'd been like three days, you know, I guess they're not leaving it out in the air.

[Abby]

She does it in her kitchen. She does it in her kitchen.

[Abby Howard]

I was presented with Vivian the option from a company to do it. And I didn't do it because the. You know, the placenta has a lot of your hormone estrogen in it. Is that right? Which you don't have to make milk. Oh, she's ready. That's her kitchen and that's placenta.

[Abby]

And that's someone's placenta.

[Abby Howard]

Wow. I mean, it couldn't be me, but I'm glad there are people out there that do that.

[Abby]

She said she's like, her husband does want her to find another place.

[Addie]

She's really cute.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, my God.

[Addie]

She's.

[Abby Howard]

See, that's such a happy picture.

[Abby]

She loves it.

[Abby Howard]

I know. That's like, what you want. You want people that are so passionate about their job. And I remember reading about it, like, it takes the estrogen sometimes from your milk, but you're such an over supplier. That's probably not gonna be an issue.

[Abby]

What it takes. Oh, she said it helps your milk supply.

[Abby Howard]

Really? Well, there's just, I think, conflicting stuff.

[Abby]

Well, I don't know if any of. I actually think it's all confused. Go ahead and say that. I don't know if any of this is evidence based.

[Abby Howard]

Right.

[Abby]

But.

[Abby Howard]

But try it. See if it works.

[Abby]

She was like, I really think she's like, what's your postpartum like? I'm like, so messy. So messy. Mentally, Isaac. Physically, I feel pretty fine. Mentally, it's so messy. And she's like, you will. You need to eat your placenta.

[Addie]

Wow.

[Abby Howard]

I mean, she has probably a lot of research. I mean, she's probably done a lot.

[Abby]

Yeah, she's. She really believes in this. And so, yeah, basically, I was Presented with this, with both births before, like, and I was like, with my first two kids, I was like, no, I don't. I. I actually. We had someone take a photo of our placenta, and I was actually offended. I was like, don't take a picture of that organ. I literally was going through our birds gallery.

[Abby Howard]

I was like, why would you slip that in there?

[Abby]

But it's so, like, I was actually offended. And look at my progression now.

[Abby Howard]

I'm eating it. Eating it.

[Abby]

I love, love my placenta, but we love you.

[Addie]

Oh.

[Abby]

When I saw a professional photo of my placenta, I was really like, oh. And now I'm like, well, our friend fix my depression.

[Abby Howard]

Our friend Jordan, she was like. When it came out, they were like, this is the healthiest placenta I've ever seen. She's like, yep, 150 grams of protein a day. Like, she was like, you know, Jordan, she's.

[Abby]

She knew why.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. She was like, she worked for that.

[Abby]

She worked for that.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. She was like, I'm taking care of my placenta.

[Abby]

I don't really think I got any comments on my placenta. They're probably like, this girl's eating crap. But so, yeah, it's crazy. They're gonna say. They're gonna. We have to bring our own cooler for it.

[Abby Howard]

Disposable with ice.

[Abby]

I think the hospital probably will provide ice.

[Abby Howard]

I wouldn't assume that.

[Abby]

They have a million ice makers on the floor, and people take their placentas home all the time.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, okay. Well, you should clarify.

[Abby]

She's like, that'll be the problem. That will be the censure for why I can't do it. No ice.

[Abby Howard]

You gotta put that puppy on ice.

[Addie]

Here's the. That is gonna be the problem, is that you're relying on this. This. On this to help with your rage. Postpartum. And then it's like the placenta, it. It melts. It doesn't get.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. And then you're like, it melts.

[Addie]

It just makes it worse.

[Abby]

That will be the thing that sets me off.

[Abby Howard]

It's August.

[Abby]

No, it's Matt's responsibility to get it in the cooler, I believe, and then our doula will take it from there.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, okay.

[Abby]

Take it home from me there straight from the hospital. And then she can probably help him.

[Abby Howard]

That's true.

[Abby]

But I remember with Augie, they were like, do you want to have your placenta? I was like, what would I do with it? And she's like. She didn't say eat it. She said, some people make art with it.

[Addie]

I think they do do that.

[Abby]

People do that. I was like. I laughed and then I was like, beautiful. I'm sure.

[Abby Howard]

I mean, I can imagine that it would be. It just sounds so funny. Are.

[Abby]

Yeah. That'll be my fourth version. That'll be my fourth kid. I'm like. To eating it.

[Addie]

Oh.

[Abby]

To literally making art.

[Abby Howard]

You put it in a shadow box.

[Addie]

Like a little.

[Abby]

Like, that's not what my photo looked. Oh, I get it now. That's placenta art.

[Abby Howard]

Oh.

[Abby]

So it kind of looks like a

[Addie]

jellyfish or a tree.

[Abby]

Look, check out that. In my house, after my fourth kid,

[Addie]

if you see a little tree or

[Abby]

jellyfish, that's the progression right there.

[Abby Howard]

I mean, yeah. Honestly, at this point, it's like, we'll never say no to nothing.

[Abby]

I can't.

[Abby Howard]

I can't have a hard fist on nothing. These days.

[Abby]

I keep changing.

[Abby Howard]

My hands are open. Wherever my feet lead me. Lord, take me where I must go.

[Abby]

Basically, she's gonna dehydrate it and put into pills, and then I'll take those pills.

[Abby Howard]

Well, I'm excited to hear if it's a good improvement because I had a lot of anxiety after Vivian that I wasn't expecting. So if this is helpful for you, I'll never say never.

[Abby]

Never say never. I mean, here's the thing. I can do a pill. Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

You don't have to think about it.

[Abby]

I can do a pill.

[Abby Howard]

Swallow that sucker. Let it do what you need to do inside.

[Abby]

Yeah. So you're already taking so many things. Most part of my life.

[Abby Howard]

Just throw that one in there.

[Abby]

Throw that one in the vill softener.

[Abby Howard]

Placenta.

[Abby]

So much stool softener.

[Abby Howard]

Perfect. Ibuprofen. Go. I think something I curious to talk about is the different stages throughout postpartum. Like, four months I had a dip. And then six months, I felt amazing. And now nine months stopping nursing, I have a dip again. Like the waves of postpartum, I think we originally think about postpartum just those first six weeks, but that whole year to 18 months after birth. So do you remember and you're either of your experiences, like a certain month, milestone point where you're like, oh, that was really hard, or is hard every time, or I didn't expect that month to be hard versus others.

[Abby]

I forget. I literally forget.

[Abby Howard]

I feel like I forgot.

[Abby]

Actually, I will say I feel like four months with both. Both times with both kids was really hard.

[Abby Howard]

Do you feel like four months?

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

I had a hard four months too. I wonder what that is.

[Abby]

I felt like I hit a High. Honestly, at six weeks, like, I remember feeling really good. Yep. At six weeks. And then I was like, we're done. And then I think at four months, I was like, oh. Like, yeah, I felt knocked on my butt again. But then I don't remember anything beyond that. So what did you think?

[Abby Howard]

I thought four months was really hard because again, you kind of get that, like, a false confidence before you're like, I'm feeling good again. I'm feeling like myself. Like we're getting the handle on things. And then at four months, I remember with Vivian feeling really like, oh. I remember recognizing that I felt anxious. So it took me four months to realize that's what I was feeling inside. But then I remember thinking, like, I'm far enough away from birth where I'm assuming I should be better. But then I'm feeling really anxious, and like, I'm struggling a lot. And I think I was then also hard on myself because I was mad at myself for still struggling, too. Like, I didn't know if that felt like it. Addie, what would you say?

[Addie]

I. I'm wondering, too, because all of us had babies. July, August, September. So that means four months does go around the holiday season, which. And into New Year's, which I feel like New Year's always is a fresh year. It's time to start fresh.

[Abby]

And you're like, new Year's always makes me sad.

[Addie]

I don't feel fresh. I don't feel ready to start. Like, I don't want to do this right now. Like, I don't feel like I'm ready for that. My format. I feel like I'm trying to think. I think I knew sleep training was on the horizon. I was like, oh, when we get to five months? And then, for some reason, four months was so hard because maybe I knew that was, like, on the horizon for us and what our story was gonna look like with her sleep. And I think that was the hardest. I felt so exhausted.

[Abby]

I felt so exhausted.

[Addie]

It hit at the four months before. Then I was like, this is fine. I'm just in the routine. And that four months, I was like, oh, shoot.

[Abby]

Energy all time. War.

[Addie]

I cannot do it anymore. So when I started, like, I was like. Like, wake up and give her a bottle. Like, I need one more. Like, hours of sleep together. Like, I can't. I can't break it up anymore. Like, I just got.

[Abby Howard]

So maybe it's not hormones. Maybe it's sleep.

[Addie]

I think that's when the sleep hit me.

[Abby Howard]

I think I was really scared about the Sleep deprivation before I ever. Because I was like, I just am such a rock sleeper. Like, I don't know how if I wake up to pee in the middle of the night, my next day was ruined before kids, you know, Like, I was like, I have to get. I would just sleep all the time. And I think that is maybe like, a positive if you're worried about that. Oh, my gosh. Those first three months, you don't even think about it. Like, you're tired, obviously, but there is something inside of you. You're just like, oh, yeah, I can do it.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

And it's just a shift, for sure. Which I think that's like, your body biological. It's totally biological. But, yeah, around four months, which both my babies started sleeping through the night at four months, but it probably is just like a. Yeah, the sleep catches up to you.

[Abby]

I feel like I hit a really big win, though, at six months. Both times I did too. Like, six months, I was kind of like, yeehaw. Yeah. Yeah. That's when I got really hit with, like, let's make another baby.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. Okay. I didn't get hit with that, but I did get the yeehaw. The brain fog lifted, especially this time around. I noticed it, I think, because the podcast, I'm like, I'm trying to form sentences and thoughts a lot.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

That was the first. You know what Three months of this podcast, I was like, I remember crying to kill, but I was like, I don't think I'm making a single thought. Like, I don't think anything I'm saying makes sense. I don't have anything to add. I just felt so insecure and like, my brain was not working. And then at six months, I was like, hello, I can think. And, yeah, I feel amazing.

[Abby]

Six months is a win.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Did you feel like that too, Addie?

[Addie]

Yeah, I felt like six months was when, like, Brielle was fully sleeping through the night every single night. So I'm sleeping better. She's in more of a routine now with naps. It's not just like. Like, we'll see what happens today. You're starting to introduce more food. Like, it's just. I think it was good for me too. And then I had a baby when she turned seven months or got pregnant when she turned seven months.

[Abby Howard]

So you had the urge.

[Addie]

You're like, I did have the urge.

[Abby]

It's real.

[Abby Howard]

I feel like the first six months, I'm so terrified. I'm like, I just got. I'm just done being pregnant. Like, I'm Free. But then not that. At six months, it wasn't that I felt, oh, I want to have a baby. I just felt, okay, if I get pregnant now, I wouldn't be as horrified. Mm. But I didn't have the urge to, like, have a baby.

[Addie]

You know what I mean?

[Abby Howard]

But you guys were like, no, put a baby in me.

[Addie]

It was interesting, too, because I was like that. I was like, I need to be pregnant now again. And then once I got pregnant, I

[Abby Howard]

was like, oh, here we go again.

[Addie]

The logical side of it wasn't working. It was just that I need to be pregnant again.

[Abby Howard]

Totally.

[Addie]

And then we're gonna have another baby and do it all again.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. It's always worth it.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

I will say back to reference, in my postpartum, my rage against my dog, I talked about last time. You just. I feel like my thoughts are just not logical when I'm postpartum, especially those first six months. Like, I'm just not rationally thinking.

[Abby]

Was your anxiety, like, more so related to the baby?

[Abby Howard]

No. Oh, no. I didn't have any anxiety about Vivian.

[Abby]

Oh, okay.

[Abby Howard]

I felt fine. I was very confident in what I was doing with her. That's where I felt like, I think. I mean, we took on the podcast. That was new also. It was quarter four of our work, so it's super busy work wise. I just didn't feel like I had a handle on anything. I didn't have a grip on taking care of my children. I didn't have a grip on work. I. And Caleb was working a ton. I just felt like I had no law on parameters of how to handle my life at all. I felt very confident with taking care of Vivian, did not feel confident with taking care of cj, which made me feel sad.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

Thankfully, my mom was there for eight

[Abby]

weeks, but, yeah, your anxiety and rage was geared towards Lewis.

[Abby Howard]

It did come out on the dog. Yeah. Sorry to my neighbor. It's probably her bl. I think I'll be a lot of people on the Internet. I'm not gonna like hearing that, but it's just. Yeah, it's sad.

[Abby]

Poor guy.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, he. He's a trooper.

[Abby]

He's a trooper.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

Yeah.

[Abby]

He probably didn't even notice. He's such a happy dog.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. He's like, huh? He's like, I just ate her whole sandwich off the counter. I'm having a good life.

[Abby]

See, that would be really sad, losing your food. Oh, that's the thing I didn't expect. I didn't expect to be more hungry. Postpartum and Breastfeeding than I was when I was pregnant. I did not expect that.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Which I feel like the distinction for me is, like, pregnancy hunger was like, I need food right now. But then I'd eat, and then I'd be, like, satiated pretty quickly. Like, I was surprised by, like, the. Now in the third trimester, second trimester, I could really eat so much. But then with breastfeeding, I literally remember, like, my plate would be, like, full of, like, dense food. Yeah, dense.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And I was. I would eat it all, and I'd be like, more like, I was so hungry. The hunger and thirst when you're early breastfeeding is there. I didn't feel it as much, like, you know, after six, four and six months. But those first months of breastfeeding, I was literally like, like, so totally.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

It's hilarious.

[Abby]

It was like I couldn't fill my stomach.

[Abby Howard]

Never. It's never full. Never.

[Abby]

But when you look up, like, how many extra calories you actually do need.

[Abby Howard]

Okay. The doctor. I asked the doctor that, and I was like, like, a thousand. He's like, no, 300. I was like, who wants to fight? No.

[Abby]

Like, 350 to 500 is what I saw.

[Abby Howard]

Okay.

[Abby]

It probably just depends.

[Abby Howard]

I, like, wanted to fight my doctor. I was like, don't say that when I'm literally eating six helpings of dinner and starving.

[Abby]

I didn't want snacks.

[Abby Howard]

I wanted meals. Yeah.

[Abby]

Pregnancy. I wanted snacks. Like, it was just a totally different. It's hard to explain. You can't know until you know. But, like, it's just a totally different type of hunger. And I've seen people talk about it before, and I was like, I relate to that. Literally.

[Abby Howard]

Ravenous. An animal.

[Abby]

Did you guys get the sundown scaries? I get that.

[Abby Howard]

I got the sun up scaries.

[Abby]

Oh.

[Abby Howard]

I felt anxious every morning, but I felt great after, like, nap time.

[Abby]

Nope. As soon as the sun started to

[Abby Howard]

set, I was really, like, the mornings felt like, really. I just felt like I couldn't handle the mornings.

[Addie]

My sundown scaries were actually in pregnancy.

[Abby]

Really?

[Addie]

Third trimester.

[Abby]

Going to sleep to try to sleep.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Addie]

I. I definitely. Every time I was like, that's why

[Abby]

I still take a happy unison. Because I get that.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Because it just gets so uncomfortable in the night, and then I wake up, and then I can't go back to sleep because he's going crazy.

[Addie]

Last time last night, I had a break. Parks and hick.

[Abby Howard]

What? I don't think that's what that was. And that had to be.

[Addie]

I Looked it up, it said, that could be what it was. I mean, you could say that any.

[Abby]

At 15.

[Addie]

15 weeks.

[Abby]

That's crazy.

[Addie]

I woke me up out of my sleep, and then I felt my stomach. It was really hard. And that's why I was like, that is what it says. It's. It's more normal in the. Not more normal, but with consecutive pregnancies, because your body just, like. Like, knows what that is. No, it's fine. Don't tell me that's not what it is, because then I'll get freaked.

[Abby Howard]

No. Okay.

[Addie]

No. It woke me up out of my sleep. Wow, that's really crazy of it. And then I felt my belly. Sorry. That just made me think of that. I don't know.

[Abby Howard]

That is crazy.

[Addie]

It's not scary sleeping.

[Abby]

I feel like I just. Both times, like, a specific night where I remember just, like, recognizing as what. That. As what it was. And it was usually, like, seven days after birth when I would start to notice that, like, cycle of, like, I remember just, like, nursing alone in my room at that point. And so I. With Augie, I was like, I need everyone in my bedroom at that time. You guys, I have a video. It's really sweet, you guys. I need so much help. Postpartum, I just have to say this because I am a basket case, and other people handle it so well, and I am amazed by them, and I don't want them to struggle like this. But, like, for me, I was like, no, I need everyone to help me because I'm just, like, so frazzled. But there's a video of me sitting in the chair nursing in our bedroom like mad and I's room, and then both my parents and Matt's parents are sitting on the bed and on the ground watching Shark Tank with me. It was so sweet. And I was like, wow, we have so much, like, so much, like, sweet people surrounding us because for me, I was like, me and Matt together, like, we got the baby. Like, we can do. We can do this, even with two. But I was, like, mentally, like, I wanted. Like, I just needed a little bit, like, a lot more support than just Matt and Ike, especially with one of us, like, at all times, honestly, both of us needing to take care of the kids. It was nice to have, like, the parents, like, taking care of me. And I just. That video of them watching Shark Tank with me at, like, 6pm in our room was so sweet. And I like, I just. Those moments, like, I really remember because it's just a feeling that I didn't. I never had until then. Like, except for I remembered when I was going through it. I remember one other time that I felt like this. And it was literally when I was in the fifth grade. I had a summer where I struggled with insomnia. Did you know this?

[Abby Howard]

No, I never heard this.

[Abby]

So I had insomnia, like, pretty bad. Like, I mean, for months, I would say, like, I think it was probably at least two months. And I, like, we went to the doctor. Everyone was trying to evaluate, like, why I literally would not sleep. Like, and I wanted to sleep so bad, but I would stay up all night for. I mean, like, this was over the summer, thank goodness, like, months. And so we went to the doctor and they're like, trying to find any reason. They're like, oh, it's because your grandparents are moving or it's because you're going to a new school. Like, And I was like,

[Abby Howard]

nothing.

[Abby]

They were saying, like, my mom would, like, ask me, like, she. She genuinely wanted to figure out if I was struggling with anxiety or something. And I remember just being like, I don't think I have a thought like that in my head. I couldn't. I didn't know what was going on. But then my mom, she. Because the doctors wanted to give me, like, a bunch of sleep medication. My mom was like, well, let's just pause on that. And then she gave me a pill. And she was like, this is a sleeping medication. Tonight you will fall asleep right away. Because she's like, this is really strong stuff. It was a freaking tick tock tick tack.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

Wow.

[Abby]

But guess what? That night fell right to sleep.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

Really?

[Abby]

I. I swallowed Tick Tocks, Tic Tacs whole for. I don't even wanna. I don't even know how long.

[Abby Howard]

How smart. So did it almost become.

[Abby]

She knew it was mental.

[Abby Howard]

You couldn't sleep because you were. You just told yourself you wouldn't be able to sleep.

[Abby]

Yeah. So then what would happen? I think I had, like, maybe one night of really bad sleep, which anyone can have.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But then the next night when the sun started to set, I started to get really, really anxious that the same thing was gonna happen for, like. I mean, that's the thing about anxiety. It's not necessarily logical. No, it's not. And so I was like, I didn't need to feel that way. I was a kid in summertime. Like, what do you have to get up for? What do you need a great night's rest for? Like, anything like that. I just remember feeling that way. And so, like, I remember feeling that way every single Night, like, my stomach would hurt. I didn't want to eat dinner. Like, I didn't want to even. Like, I would just be so worried about what was gonna happen that night. And it was just a feeling that I just couldn't. I'd never had before. And then I remember after having my first, I was like, this is the same way. I felt like, just so anxious about nighttime and like going to bed and that like, even it would connect with dinner. And then I also at that point would remember feeling really down too. Like both of those things would happen at the same time. Yeah. And so I feel like that was like my experience with baby blues. I feel like by six weeks, both times, it was pretty much over with. Yeah. But it is one of those things where I'm like, I don't want. I obviously don't want to feel that way, and I don't. And my brain, I'm like, it's all going to be okay, even if I have a sleepless night. Like, we've navigated that before. Like, it's just illogical and it just hits you and.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Kind of like, have you ever heard people, they have like that let down

[Abby Howard]

anxiety, they feel depressed or sad right when their letdown happens.

[Abby]

Yeah. When they're breastfeeding.

[Abby Howard]

I never felt that, but I believe that I fully. It's a weird. I know. Like, it happened.

[Abby]

I feel you. I just remember feeling so out of control. Like I was like, I. Like, I don't know when I feel

[Abby Howard]

that way, but yeah.

[Addie]

Did you guys feel like it was easier to ask for help the second time with your second kid more than

[Abby]

your first or did it change harder for me?

[Addie]

Really?

[Abby]

Because I was like, I've done this before and like I should. I don't know why I put different expectations on myself with the second having gone through it before.

[Abby Howard]

Thank you to Magic Spoon for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

[Abby]

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[Abby Howard]

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[Abby]

Oh I can tell you all my favorites. We honestly love the marshmallow one, the cinnamon one, the peanut butter one, the chocolate one, love the fruity one. Because their high protein zero sugar cereal brings all the childhood nostalgia but none of the sugar bombs.

[Abby Howard]

Magic Spoon is easy to find. Just look for Magic Spoon at grocery retailers nationwide. And if you haven't tried them yet, check out Magic Spoon Treats, a high protein, low sugar season take on the cereal bars that you grew up with. You can get $5 off your next order@magic spoon.com Abby. That's magic spoon.com Abby for $5 off.

[Addie]

What about you Ab?

[Abby Howard]

I felt like I was probably, I was more able. I don't think I had an issue accepting help either times. I think I was, I knew how to better place my help where I needed it. Like I needed help around the house. It's just like my life, things felt overwhelming and so I knew like hey, can you please do the laundry to like my mom or Teresa when they would stay. Like I, I felt like more confident asking for the things I needed help in instead of just like letting the dick go on and just hoping that people would help with them.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

So I think I probably felt a little better about that.

[Addie]

Yeah, I definitely didn't want to ask for help the first time around. Like my mom was there and I was like she would spend the night, a couple nights in case we needed her in the middle of the night and I'm like I have to know how to do this myself. And so I would never ask for help. Cuz I'm like I need to figure out how to be a mom by myself because you're not going to be here forever like to help me. And this time around I'm like, I, I know how to do it so you can help me. Like I don't need, I don't have that same anxiety around needing to be able to do it.

[Abby Howard]

You know you'll be capable.

[Addie]

Yes, totally. No matter who's there or what it's going on. Like I'll figure it out for sure.

[Abby Howard]

Well that's the thing. I remember feeling really nervous. My mom was there for eight weeks and people kept asking me like what do you need?

[Abby]

And postpartum was like, you just need

[Addie]

your mom there for you forever.

[Abby Howard]

Like but when my mom finally left, I had to figure it out. And it was really good to do that. Like, it helped my confidence a lot. And you figure out, like, you're like, oh, I can do it. I can figure it out and make it work. But, yeah, I told my mom she

[Addie]

left at the worst time because she stayed for six weeks, and then I was going back to work.

[Abby Howard]

And I'm like, mom, now what do I do?

[Addie]

You leave when I have to start

[Abby Howard]

work, two weeks, go and then come back.

[Addie]

She's staying for a lot longer than

[Abby]

you guys made a good point. I feel like I should have, both times. Really should have done a better job of asking for help with life things

[Abby Howard]

and not, I don't need help with the baby things.

[Abby]

Yeah, I just. I don't know why I felt so bad asking, actually. Yeah, I just felt bad asking for help with the laundry and stuff. I don't know why.

[Addie]

Me too.

[Abby Howard]

I didn't see.

[Addie]

The thing is, my mom would see. I wouldn't ask anyone else. My mom would do it. But I would not ask you to fold my laundry or anything.

[Abby Howard]

I would ask. I would ask you guys to fold my laundry.

[Addie]

I will do it. I know I do it. But I would. I would ask you maybe to unload the dishwasher.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Addie]

I think you loaded my dishwasher one time when you were over. Like, I'm like, that's nice, but I don't know my laundry. I'm like, you don't know what you're doing.

[Abby Howard]

You all just need to send me a list of chores. I'll come over and do them. Because I think that's really the thing. And like, with my mom and Teresa, I knew they wanted to help, but I think sometimes, too, when, like, your parent is coming in or your in laws are coming in, like, they're also in a new environment, they're in your home. Like, they don't know always what your routines are and systems are. And so when I felt like I was like, oh, John, can you do this? Or, Teresa, can you this? Mom, can you do this? Dad, can you do this? I think it gave them an ease because then they were like, I know where she needs the help. And they confidently handled that. So I don't know, I feel like that was. That came with the second, not with the first.

[Abby]

I feel like that segues really nicely into talking about, like, boundaries with family after having a baby, because Addie showed us this tik tok, and it kind of sparked a thought. How should we show that? Or we can just talk about it. There was a TikTok that went viral. You want to describe it?

[Addie]

Yeah, it was a group chat. So there's this new. There's this thing on TikTok where you're, like, showing your group chat and the audio, like, it's. It's like this, like, yelling version of it. Reading the text.

[Abby]

That's AI.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, certainly.

[Abby]

I thought that was someone being like,

[Addie]

no, no, it's AI. That's not a person for sure.

[Abby]

Sounds like they really committed to this.

[Addie]

And so I was just reading through these texts of this couple that just had a baby, and it seemed like in the group chat, it is the husband and the wife, the mom of each of them, and then their best friend is in this group chat, and they had just. The husband sent a text and said, hey, we're home from the hospital, but we're not ready for visitors. We'll let you know when we are. Both moms are like, okay, we're on our way over. We have dinner. We're ready to see you guys when you're ready. And they're like, no, please, no visitors right now. And they're like, we're coming. Let us in. They get there, they're like, why is my door code. Why is my door code not working? Let me in. Let me in.

[Abby Howard]

You changed it.

[Addie]

I can hear my grandbaby crying. Let me in. I can get them to sleep. And they're like, no. We're trying to get them to sleep. And they're like, let me help put them to sleep. And they're like, no, go away. And then the friend's, like, advocating for them in the chat. But it was an interesting conversation around boundaries with family members and friends during this season.

[Abby]

Do you, first of all, think that video is real?

[Addie]

I don't know.

[Abby]

Do you think someone would actually do that?

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, I've been a lot. I for sure think that was real. Do that.

[Abby]

So I don't know. I feel like I have mixed feelings on that. Like, for me personally, they certainly crossed the line with the parents saying, hey, we don't want visitors right now. And then to physically show up.

[Abby Howard]

That's so wrong.

[Abby]

That's so wrong.

[Abby Howard]

That's so wrong.

[Abby]

That's not okay.

[Abby Howard]

And.

[Abby]

And it's not even like, I. They weren't like, we don't want to see you for weeks. They're like. They said, not right now.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Which I'm like, that is so valid.

[Abby Howard]

It's fair.

[Abby]

But, like, Addie, you've said it so well before. Like, when you have a baby, this obviously comes with so Much nuance, because it depends on what your family looks like. Like, if your family is people that would take advantage of this or they're super overbearing or super inappropriate with, like, the things that they would say or insensitive, then that definitely changes things.

[Abby Howard]

Things. Right.

[Abby]

But I'm talking about, like, within our family, like, a healthy family dynamic, you know, with every day, you know, typical challenges, of course. But that baby that you had is not just your daughter. That baby is also a niece, a cousin, a granddaughter, like all these other things. And so I do think when a baby's introduced, like, it is something for the whole family.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. Let the grandmas in.

[Abby]

Let the grandmas in. Gosh. And I don't know. I think that that's. It's a touchy area, and I think each family has to navigate that. And I think what could be really hard. I'm so thankful that this isn't the situation we are in. But if you have to have separate, different boundaries with different sides of the family, that'd be hard. That would be really hard.

[Abby Howard]

That'd be hard. Yeah.

[Abby]

And so, yeah, we're coming.

[Abby Howard]

We're talking from, like, a very. We have a great scenario here. But I think I do talk to a lot of friends, and they're like, oh, no, no, I don't want anyone around. And they're like, they have great families. And it's just like, oh, but, like, let people love your baby and, like, help your baby and let them come celebrate your baby for a night and then let them leave, you know?

[Abby]

Yeah. It doesn't have to be forever long.

[Abby Howard]

No. But I think. Yeah, it's. Sometimes I think especially on the Internet, I feel like there's this narrative of, like, this hyper. No one comes near my baby. Don't touch my baby. Don't kiss my baby.

[Abby]

Don't. It's an old baby thing, too.

[Abby Howard]

It totally is. And I'm like. I think it's actually. That's just harder on the moment.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

And the dad, like, that's just way more pressure. Like, if you can have people come in your home and help you and just be excited for you and, like, also get you out of the tunnel vision of, like, the pain that you're maybe feeling and the hard things you're feeling and let them come in and talk to you and make you feel like a normal person and hold your baby or not, that's a great thing. Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes I see things online and I'm like, that's just such an Unhealthy mindset.

[Abby]

I dropped off a meal last week for someone that had a baby. And when I went in there, they had friends over there too. And they had a little kid like, that they brought that wasn't their kid. So it was like their friends and their daughter came that was young. And I was like, this is really sweet. Like, they weren't there to like, even to really, as far as I know, do anything except for to keep them company. And I think that is a really important aspect, especially for someone like me that struggles the most with mental health after, like, pregnancy or after, like, having a baby. And so that is a shame. But maybe they wanted other people over instead of the moms.

[Addie]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

I mean, I get these moms didn't seem like the worst to literally. So I'm not saying these people were wrong, but I'm just saying in general, I think the conversation online.

[Abby]

Right.

[Abby Howard]

Is really like, big wall, nobody. Nobody come in.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

And I just think that's like, don't fall, don't. If you have good, you know, good systems around, you don't feel like you have to put a wall up.

[Abby]

Yeah. I say invite.

[Abby Howard]

Let your people in.

[Abby]

Let your people in.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And obviously people want things that are different. Like, if. See, a lot of people say, like, I want to hold the baby and I want everyone to do everything else. Or sometimes maybe some people are like, I just want a minute, like, to not hold the baby and do something that feels normal. Like, I can see both sides. You just don't need to compare your experience postpartum to other people's boundaries. Like, if what you have to create that yourself. And like, I'm saying this as someone that has created more strictly boundaries with our third. But that was simply because of myself. Like, whenever we would have people overnight after having babies, I was putting on myself. I need to take care of everyone. Like, I need to make sure that the house is clean for them and that there's some food for them. And it's like, no one was putting that on me.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But for me, I don't know that I could switch that off easily. So we just said no overnight guests for a month.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And that is like me putting up more of a battery. But we'll see them during the day. We'll see. Like, and they're. I'm sure they're welcome to come to the hospital too.

[Abby Howard]

That was great. I mean, even just with us, we had a guest room, but I think my mom. Oh, our in laws did stay with us. It was Great. It was like two weeks. Two or three weeks after, but my mom stayed in a. She had an apartment, but she stayed in a hotel to the other times. And it's good to, I think, have that family time alone, too. So it's good to, like, have more during the day, but it's good to also have, like, a break, like, from your help at times.

[Abby]

Yeah. Because you feel like you're taking care of a baby, and then you're like, I need to take care. Like, I don't know. It was. It was just, like, I said something I was putting on myself, but definitely want to see everyone during the day for sure. And. Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

Well, we'll hang out with them during the night. That's perfect.

[Addie]

For sure.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

I. My friend Morgan did this when she was postpartum, and I thought this was a brilliant idea because they had family come and stay with them. She just set up a. She's like, I want my family there, but I don't want to be around them. Like, I know for myself. I just. I'll need space. I'm an introvert. I want to go collect by myself. I want a nurse in private. Like, I won't want to be around them. So she set up, like, a little in her bedroom. She set up a tv. They moved a TV in there. A whole, like, mini fridge situation, food carts, so that when she needed to get away with the baby and if she just wanted to take the baby away, she could and just go be alone.

[Abby]

Yeah, I'm doing that.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. And it's great.

[Abby]

I did that with Augie, too.

[Abby Howard]

That was a great idea.

[Abby]

That made it really nice, especially because I feel like even if you've breastfed before, like, you're. You and that baby are starting that journey from square one, essentially. Even though you've done it before, you're still working out how that works as a team. And for me, I'm like, I need to be naked for at least.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, at least six weeks.

[Addie]

I was. I was naked for so long.

[Abby Howard]

I was naked for so long, and

[Addie]

then I was like, oh, wait, I can, like, keep bra on.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Addie]

Now I'm breastfeeding.

[Abby Howard]

No. When that happens, you got the baby here and the hawk on the other. No, I'm naked.

[Addie]

One thing I'm curious about that, too, is I felt like there were times where I would go do that. I'd go back to my room to, like, breastfeed or, like, friends were over different things, and then they would end up leaving while I'm back breastfeeding. Because they're like, well, maybe we can just be done for the night. And I'm like, I just needed. I just had to go do this. I didn't want you to leave yet.

[Abby]

Don't leave until I come back.

[Addie]

Yeah. The expectations clear. Or the other way around of being

[Abby Howard]

like, I'm gonna go nurse.

[Addie]

I'm ready for them to leave. Like, oh, and like, let your husband take care. There's like, different scenarios like that too. And I think we've talked about it too before with, like, if you're going to, like, drop off food or something for them, it's the expectation is always to drop it off. Unless they.

[Abby]

I think I might have messed that up last night.

[Abby Howard]

I totally messed that up. Oh, when I.

[Abby]

When I brought.

[Addie]

Really?

[Abby]

Yeah, they didn't know me.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, and you stayed? No, they.

[Abby]

Most people stayed for like five minutes. And then I felt myself being like, get out of here.

[Addie]

Well, I just want, even with your closest friends, I feel like, to not be hurt if they're like, just not right now. Because a lot of the times I was breastfeeding when people drop off meals and I'm like, I don't want you to come in right now. I'm sorry.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, yeah.

[Abby]

I just can't.

[Addie]

I can't do it.

[Abby Howard]

I would just text people and be like, hey, can you just leave it? Like an adorable.

[Abby]

Yeah, that's what I. I mean, that's what I did after a miscarriage. I said, leave it at the front door.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But then if I wanted people to bring it in, then I just. You can set it up on the Meal train. By the way, if you guys have never used Meal Train, like, it is amazing website that you can like, have everyone that in your life, friends, family that wants to help, like, basically serve you through giving you a meal postpartum.

[Abby Howard]

That's the best.

[Abby]

Or after. After loss.

[Addie]

Do they not have an app? No, it's just.

[Abby Howard]

No, it's an Apple app.

[Addie]

Sorry.

[Abby]

That needs to be an app. That is a good point. Just anytime. I mean, I think this would be great if you're going through any type of grief or also just like, he, like, maybe you had a surgery or you had a baby. There's so many different reasons.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And it's great. You. Everyone will just sign up there and say, like, what they're bringing or whatnot. They're taking over for dinner. And it's great. You can put on there when. When to drop it off. And also, like, all the instructions, dietary restrictions, how many people that they Would like to serve, like, things like that.

[Abby Howard]

It's awesome.

[Abby]

It's amazing. We've used it.

[Abby Howard]

I'm 50 billion times.

[Addie]

Anytime someone has a baby, you're going

[Abby]

through anything a gazillion times.

[Abby Howard]

A gazillion times, and it's great. Yeah.

[Abby]

But yeah, on there you can say, leave it at the door. If you're like, I can almost assume that I'm not going to want to see them, then you can just say, leave it at the door. Yeah, six o'.

[Addie]

Clock.

[Abby]

But then maybe you could say that other. If you know who's coming, you can just say, hey, actually, bring it on. Come on inside. We're having a good night.

[Abby Howard]

Like, yeah, if you have time, feel free to stay for 30 minutes.

[Abby]

I'm wearing clothes right now, so you

[Abby Howard]

can just come on in. But I would tell people that I'm like, oh, yeah, it's a good. Like, if you want to stay for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, I always kind of put a cap on it.

[Addie]

That's fine for sure.

[Abby Howard]

And no one thinks it's rude. Everyone is assuming that it's like a tradition time.

[Addie]

I had a really good friend that I was dropping the food off for, and I don't know why, I just dropped it off and I left. And she goes, I, I wanted to see you. I was like, oh, sorry.

[Abby Howard]

I just.

[Addie]

I was just. Expectations weren't clear. I brought a coffee. The next morning I was like, I'll

[Abby]

just come back and say, I would

[Addie]

have brought him out to see you. If you were in a rush or something.

[Abby Howard]

I would say, that's the gift. If we have on here. Like, what are things that you could do to support your friends or family postpartum? I think just asking clarifying questions, like, do you want me to stay? Do you, like, do you want me to leave a meal when you're over? Like, oh, are you letting people hold the baby or not? Like, just asking, not assuming. I think just those things are really caring and also kind of gives them way. It kind of helps them ease because

[Abby]

it can be awkward because you're like, okay, like, maybe they don't want me to hold the baby. Or maybe like, I don't know.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. Are you guys letting people hold the baby? If not, it's no big deal. Yeah, just ask. You know, it's like, I think it's just kind of.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

And it's not weird. It's never rude and never being offended by it. Food is the best food.

[Abby]

Seriously. And I also think, like, there's a time Period. To ask, like, if it's like the day before, it's like, I have no idea how I'm gonna feel the next day, you know, like, every minute by minute is different. I would say like three hours before. Yeah. Three to even one hour. Just right before you're like, hey, I'm about to head out gauging how things. How the night do we drop it off? I would just always say, like, I was planning on dropping it off, but if, like, yeah, I have a couple minutes. You know what I mean?

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Other things to bring a postpartum mom. I honestly think that it's great to always just shoot a text and just be like, hey, what do you need right now? Actually, you know what? That is something that I feel confused by. People don't like it when you say,

[Abby Howard]

what do you need?

[Abby]

What do you need? Why?

[Abby Howard]

Sometimes I feel that actually, like, it's

[Addie]

like a decision to paralysis.

[Abby]

Like having to decide, okay, like, if

[Addie]

you go over to someone's house, like, to drop food off or you go in to see the baby, you see a need. You meet the need. Rather than be like, do you want me to do your dishes right now? You just do it.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, gotcha. Because sometimes, yeah, it's like the overwhelming of the questions or making them feel put out to, like, give you to help you help them sometimes feels a little overwhelming. I felt that at times actually, like,

[Abby]

I more so was thinking like, oh, I'm going to the grocery store. Like, what do you need?

[Abby Howard]

Oh, that's not.

[Abby]

I feel like you should ask what they need because maybe they want. They need something specific for me, I was like, I need more nipple shields.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. I think it's more so also, like the generic question, like, whatever you need, just let me know. It's like, that's actually not helpful. Like, we're not gonna reach out.

[Addie]

I do feel like when you're saying that one of like, do you need anything? I feel I've always put in. I'm running by the store, like, just anyway. Even if you're not. Because it does make me feel like if you weren't gonna go to the store, I don't to want to you.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, don't make an extra trip for me.

[Addie]

No, don't make an extra trip for me. But just, I was going to run by the store. Do you need anything? Maybe frame it that way.

[Abby]

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But then I'm like, with a task. What are tasks that were like, helpful for you guys when people did postpartum dishes? Laundry. Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

And honestly I didn't expect my friends to do those things. Just like my family and people that were like close, you know, helping. I thought it was really helpful. When you brought break. You brought like protein bites. Like little quick snack things are really helpful.

[Addie]

Snacks or desserts. When you. When you bring in a dinner. Bring a dessert.

[Abby Howard]

Definitely bring a dessert. And like I didn't do this for my recent friend that had a baby and I was mad. I just ran out of time. But like the lactation balls. Little quick things for breakfast is really helpful.

[Abby]

I always think quick things for breakfast is good.

[Abby Howard]

So helpful. Also not bringing like a dish for them to clean. Like a Tupperware that they can disposable or disposable. Don't bring like something they have to return back to you because that's really overwhelming. Which obviously sometimes it just happens.

[Abby]

Electrolytes I feel like is something that I would really sometimes bring.

[Abby Howard]

And then yeah, while you're there, if you see like a bunch of bottles in the sink or dishes in the sink, just like put them in the dishwasher and unload their dishwasher for them. Just things that are like really easy that maybe are like on their feet tasks. It might be weird to like grab their vacuum and cleaner.

[Addie]

But I mean take the trash out

[Abby Howard]

if you're definitely take the trash.

[Addie]

I feel like there's not a lot of people that are staying for a meal because those are mostly family members. Like you guys would bring dinner and then you'd. It's with us. Like you eat dinner with us and then you'd help clean and stuff like that afterwards if you're sharing a meal.

[Abby]

Obviously.

[Abby Howard]

I took my friend's son to the park when she was postpartum. I feel like that would be really nice for me.

[Addie]

Postpartum is like a friend coming over and then just like either taking Brielle for a little bit or just like playing with her. Like giving Brielle some one on one attention. I would really love.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Something that I started doing. If they have have other kids in the house which most of our friends are now on like baby, two, three. I would bring stuff for the older kids because I remember that feeling of like when you. I think I brought C.J. magnetized. That was really cute.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Because I. Because I remember that feeling of just like gosh, like everything I'm giving is just to one kid right now. Just because their needs are so great and that'll balance out so soon. But like in that beginning that guilt can really. That can really get you.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, you did. I texted you. Crying. I was so sad. And teacher had the hand, foot, mouth. And you brought a magnetox.

[Abby]

We never talked about the postpartum sweats.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, my gosh. I forgot.

[Abby]

That's one of those things that you can only know until you go through it, because I'm not. Okay, don't get me wrong. I will sweat during a workout, but I wouldn't say I'm, like, the sweatiest person in the world, but the sweat that came out of me in the night after having you wring it off your chest, like, I was, like, soaking. I remember being cold because I would get up to nurse, and I'm wet. And so then I was like, I'm freezing.

[Addie]

It caught me so off guard.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Addie]

The first night, you're like, huh? What is happening? Why is my hair wet?

[Abby Howard]

It took, like, a week for them to.

[Abby]

Yeah, like, my hair was wet.

[Abby Howard]

Soaked wet.

[Abby]

Because it doesn't wake you up.

[Addie]

Like, you don't feel it when you're sleeping. You don't feel hot or anything like that. And then you just wake up and you're wet.

[Abby Howard]

I remember having a puddle in my neck here.

[Abby]

Like, right here.

[Abby Howard]

It was a puddle. And I was like, oh, my gosh.

[Abby]

So many showers.

[Abby Howard]

I took three showers a day postpartum,

[Abby]

because you got the sweat, you got

[Abby Howard]

the blood, you got the milk, and you got the tears. Don't forget the tears.

[Abby]

Don't forget the tears.

[Abby Howard]

But the milk. The milk.

[Abby]

I remember being like, I need to get this off me. It smells. It will. Yeah, Spoil.

[Abby Howard]

And then you get out of the shower, and the milk's just coming out of your. Just dripping onto the floor.

[Abby]

I cannot believe that's about to happen again. That is so crazy.

[Abby Howard]

But you just get. I mean, honestly. But I made it. I'm like, this isn't as bad as I thought.

[Abby]

Remember?

[Abby Howard]

And then you get out of it. You're like, that was crazy.

[Abby]

No, I remember actually, like, talking about, like, having a vaginal delivery and a C section delivery. I remember after having a C section, I was really scared to shower because of, like, the scar hurt matte, massive incision and, like, the tape and stuff. And I remember after showering, I was, like, so intentionally avoiding the mirror because I was like, I can't see that. I'm not afraid of my body, but I can't see that wound. And then I did, and it was, like, black.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, it is.

[Abby]

Because they use glue. That is like. And they put staples in mine.

[Abby Howard]

Mine didn't. I just got stitches I had, like,

[Abby]

11 staples in my belly.

[Abby Howard]

Mine is like, divots all around.

[Abby]

They took them off.

[Abby Howard]

What went on here?

[Abby]

What went on here?

[Abby Howard]

Caleb's like, it's probably just scar tissue. I'm like, I have no idea.

[Abby]

Wait, like still?

[Abby Howard]

Yeah. Like, I have two, like, dimples on each side. Oh, it's like stepped back. I just remember if you had a C section. This was crazy. And eventually does come back, but for, like, at least eight months. Caleb would pinch my skin under my belly button. Zero sensation. Like, we would play game. I would close my eyes and I'd be like, okay, let me guess. When you're touching me. I would never know. Do you remember that numbness? Because they cut all the nerves.

[Abby]

For how long?

[Abby Howard]

At least eight months. I felt like, completely. I was completely numb and tingly.

[Abby]

I. The. Oh, under your belly button.

[Abby Howard]

It was from my belly button.

[Abby]

No, to the scar? No, mine was like, just on it. It was numb. Yeah. That's freaky.

[Abby Howard]

It was so freaky. It came back, though. It just took a long time.

[Abby]

That's freaky. No, I think with a C section. The things that. The thing that shocked me the most, postpartum versus vaginal delivery was the way that my organs just fell into that cavity whenever I would get out of bed.

[Abby Howard]

Because you don't have the ab muscles or the.

[Abby]

I don't know why I didn't experience it after the first delivery. Second one, when they. That. That hole where Augie used to reside would literally just. I remember turning over bed and be like. And getting out of bed. It was like.

[Abby Howard]

I actually didn't. I didn't feel that with cj. I felt that with Vivian. And I remember it because I was like, oh, whoa, I'm gonna throw up. That was a crazy feeling.

[Abby]

Like, it's like. It's like you're going down a. Down an elevator, but it's just your insides. No, I didn't.

[Addie]

I wear the belly band, and I feel like it suppresses some of that.

[Abby]

I had a belly band. I should do that this time.

[Abby Howard]

That's a good.

[Addie]

Cuz I usually. I thought it was like, for, like, looks like I didn't realize. It's like, no, because you like a waist trainer.

[Abby Howard]

Get a snap.

[Addie]

I literally thought that's why I was like, I don't need to wear that. And I was like, oh, no. It's because my organs feel like they're just floating in my body.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Abby Howard]

Like I'm actually just flapping around everywhere. Also, I didn't expect the driving to Be painful in the car after C section. Oh, the bumps, the bumps.

[Abby]

I remember driving to the pediatrician, I cried. Isn't that so crazy? You have to take the baby, a newborn baby.

[Abby Howard]

The next day I had to take the baby. When I got in the hospital, I was pissed.

[Abby]

That's cruel.

[Abby Howard]

And all the bumps and so many speed bumps.

[Addie]

You guys are talking about your C section. I'm talking about my tailbone. I'm sitting on a donut in the car, buckled in.

[Abby Howard]

No one tells you about that. Have your support person drive slow. That's all I got from post apartment.

[Abby]

Wait for a C section for sure. Where for me. The ice packs helped so much.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, they did.

[Abby]

I didn't even think about like that helped more than pain reliever pills, like having ice. The Freedom Moms one was really good. Find a different brand.

[Abby Howard]

But are they still canceled?

[Abby]

I think so, yeah.

[Addie]

Okay.

[Abby]

I don't know. If you find another one, let me know. But I'll probably whip it out again if I have an emergency C section.

[Abby Howard]

Well, tell no one.

[Abby]

No, that thing was great because you just strap it on and then you can change out the ice pack. I slept with it on and if I woke up in the night, I would change the ice pack. I didn't get a fresh one and it was so nice.

[Abby Howard]

We're transitioning to Patreon. We have a few fun things to talk about over there. We talked about our husband's views of postpartum and then misconception exceptions about postpartum. So if you want to hear that, join our Patreon. It's $5 a month. It's so fun. We have our book club over there. Like our full fledged book club with a riveting comment section and are always hungry segment where you guys are dropping some bomb recipes. I love the camaraderie there and what else we have over there, episode chats. It's a lot of fun stuff. We do a lot of polls and questions, so definitely make sure to check out our Patreon.

[Abby]

Thank you to chili Pad for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

[Abby Howard]

Ladies, let me tell you about something that's going to change your life. Seriously, every person that uses a chili pad, their life, their entire becomes their entire personality. But it makes sense when you try it. When you sleep hot, you sleep sweaty, and maybe you just live in Arizona. You can't turn your AC that low. We sleep it at 73. Okay. That chili pad is putting me to sleep and staying asleep.

[Abby]

Guys. You guys, I know there's health Benefits to it too, but just comfort wise and sleep quality wise, it really changes the game. And sleep is so important. And that is why I am probably the most annoying advocate, but I just genuinely so believe in it. The Chilipad 2.0 by Sleep Me is the most advanced version yet of the bed cooling system, built specifically for people who are tired of waking up hot and sweaty.

[Abby Howard]

Me. That's me.

[Abby]

That's Abigail. The Chili Pad 2.0 actively cools or warms. Actually, if you didn't know that your bed using water. It's a thermostat for your bed and water is the key here. Typical fans just move hot air around, but the Chilipad actually uses chilled water to cool the bed by actively pulling heat away from your body. And it works with your existing mattress. So you don't need to buy a new bed.

[Abby Howard]

I don't know how they did it. I don't know how they invented it, but can we just say thank you Chili Pad for doing it. Thank you for figuring it out.

[Abby]

Luxury, you guys. And I just. I want everyone in my life to have one. Seriously. And that includes you.

[Abby Howard]

So if you Want to visit www.sleep.me always here to get up to $255 off your Chilipad 2.0 use code always here. This special offer is available for the Always Here listeners and only for a limited time. Go get it. Order it today with free shipping and try it out for 30 days. You can return it for free if you don't like it with their sleep trial, which just eases your mind. Yeah.

[Abby]

Visit www.sleep s l e e p.me. always here and never wake up hot and tired again. Let's do voicemails. We love hearing from you guys. This is our Ask Abby segment.

[Abby Howard]

Roll the, roll the voicemail.

[Abby]

Oh, and the voicemails.

[Abby Howard]

Ask, ask, Ask Abby. Hi, Abby.

[Abby]

Abby's Addy.

[Abby Howard]

I was just wondering what is a bad habit that you.

[Abby]

You have that you wish you could break? Mine would be biting my nails. Thank y'.

[Abby Howard]

All. That's a fun question. Obviously late, but I'm gonna think of something a little bit more

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

unique.

[Abby]

I feel like you guys could tell me better my bad habits.

[Abby Howard]

And can you think of one for me?

[Addie]

I interrupt people.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Addie]

It's always afterwards that I realize, like, when I'm at home, I'm like, pretty sure I did that.

[Abby]

You know, something I think I'm bad at is asking people questions about themselves sometimes. I. I don't know if that's a habit but speaking about, like conversations, like, I think back and I'm like, they asked me about myself and I didn't ask a single question about them.

[Addie]

I feel like some conversations are that way. It's all focused on one person and it ends up being that way. And that's like, okay. And then sometimes it's all the other way. Sometimes there are conversations.

[Abby]

I've been trying to make effort more to think about, like, questions, other people, which is so unlike me because I feel like I don't really overthink interactions that much. But now that was something. Like I was like, I don't know that that's a habit, but that was something I was like noticing. I was like, people were asking about me and I wasn't asking about them in return.

[Addie]

I feel like you're really good at follow up questions, though.

[Abby]

That's nice.

[Addie]

Like, we were like, I don't know. You just try and get all the info. A lot of times I'm like, you told me something. I'm like. And I'm like, there is a. There's definitely a follow up question to that.

[Abby Howard]

I've never been in a conversation and thought she didn't care to hear about what I had to say.

[Abby]

Okay, thank you.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, no, no, I've never thought that. But it's good. I mean, I think about that too sometimes, Especially when I think it is people's like, sometimes it's easier for people to ask the questions than not talk about themselves. And so when I'm in a conversation where someone's asking me a lot of questions, I have to remind myself, oh, and what do you think about that?

[Abby]

Yeah, I thought of a bad habit and never take out the trash. I never will do that. In my head. I'm like, that can. I can do a lot of things, but I can't do that. I'll just. I'll literally squish that stuff down or even I'll put it in a grocery sack next to trash. I'm like, I'm not taking that out.

[Abby Howard]

My bad habit. I wait. I'm kind of in charge of picking up Lewis poop, But I wait until it's like, how did you get that one?

[Abby]

That was Matt's duty.

[Abby Howard]

I don't know. I just started doing it down because I'll usually do it before people come over or something until my. My bad habit is just wait until the last minute to do it. And it gets. Yeah, it's like full sacks. His. You know, his. They're heavy. He's a massive dog. So just imagine the lumps out there. That is pretty gross. It's a bad habit.

[Addie]

My bad habit is not replying to text messages unless they're work or like,

[Abby Howard]

that's a good one.

[Addie]

Not even family. But I'm like, I don't really respond to my. There's certain.

[Abby]

Abby's bad habit, not responding in group text.

[Abby Howard]

I never respond. I usually don't even read it. Group tags.

[Abby]

Gotta work on that.

[Abby Howard]

I know which ones.

[Abby]

Do you specifically have bigger happy family?

[Abby Howard]

Oh, yeah. I don't respond often. Usually I read it way later and then it feels weird to respond like so much later.

[Addie]

I never responded. My family group chat. I send stuff a lot and never respond.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, I feel like I just read text so much later. A lot of times I'm just like, the conversation's over. I don't respond.

[Abby]

I'm talking about information.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, sorry, couldn't be me. Was there information I missed recently?

[Abby]

Yeah, just not recently recently, but like vacation stuff with Tahoe.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, yeah. I wasn't responding.

[Addie]

Okay.

[Abby Howard]

It's not intentional.

[Abby]

Not intentional.

[Abby Howard]

I'm just like, oh, it's harmless, really. I think it's because I get overwhelmed with decisions.

[Abby]

Hi, Addie, Abby and Abby. I'm Hannah. And I'm Charlotte. And we're sisters in high school and best friends. So we were just wondering what's one of your favorite memories with your siblings as kids? We love your podcast so much and look forward to it every Friday.

[Abby Howard]

Bye.

[Addie]

I want to cry.

[Abby]

That was her birthday. That's going to be Brielle.

[Addie]

We didn't have family dinner so I

[Abby]

didn't tell you guys the name Brinley.

[Addie]

No, but I don't mind that name.

[Abby Howard]

Brooklyn.

[Addie]

Nope.

[Abby Howard]

Is it a B name?

[Addie]

Yep.

[Abby]

Brooklyn was a good guess because I know that they like the name Brooks. What if it's Brooks?

[Addie]

I know. I wish it could be Brooks or Brooklyn. Blake won't let it be.

[Abby Howard]

Okay, Brittany, we gotta stop.

[Addie]

No.

[Abby]

Okay. Riley?

[Addie]

No,

[Abby]

thank you.

[Addie]

What's a favorite memory of you?

[Abby Howard]

I'm still thinking of B names.

[Abby]

Favorite. I love that. I. I feel like they like planned that out. Exactly.

[Abby Howard]

Turns favorite memory as a kid. Oh, there's so many good ones with your siblings. My siblings

[Abby]

honestly just loved going to Disney. Even just the drive to Disney was so memorable. Blake and I would sleep in the same bed before a trip cuz we were so excited. Like we both couldn't fall asleep so we just sleep together. And then our dad would come in cuz he was also so excited and could. Couldn't sleep at like 4 in the morning. We'd start the road trip and Blake and I had a whole like all of our movies. We knew the order would watch movies and like we just had so much fun. Like with like just road tripping to Disney and then at Disney we had so much fun. Like that's why I love it so much, honestly. It's literally not Disney. It's just the nostalgia behind like such good family memories there growing up and all surrounding it. Like it all felt so eventful. Like we would always just talk about like, like the silly things too. Like in the car, like I was so hot in Florida that our crayons melted. And like we just remember like all these like goofy things. Goofy things. It was just so. It was, everything about it was so memorable.

[Abby Howard]

Totally. Yeah, I have great memories like that too. Just like the little things. I think if I were the first things that came to mind, I had an individual one for each of my sisters. My older sister, she was five years older than she is, five years older than me. And I remember she was trying to sneak me into. I was in sixth grade and she was working and sneaking me into her school's seventh and eighth grade mixer. Nope. Because she was like putting it on. So she was gonna sneak me in even though I was underage. And I come downstairs dressed for this boy girl mixer in baggy basketball shorts and a big old T shirt. And she was like, turn your butt around right now and we're gonna go get ready. And she straightened my hair and picked out a cute outfit for me and put a little makeup on me. And she did. It was the first time my hair had ever been flat ironed. And you. She clamped my ear and pulled it with the flatter. Scarred me. So just like cute older sister. It just felt like a movie. Really fun. And then Sophie and I, my younger sister, she's three and a half years younger, we were like, oh my gosh. We just did the craziest, stupidest stuff as a kid. We used to just make up the goof. We would play Kim Possible in my parents living room and I would always be Shego and she'd be Kim Possible. And then we would like flip flop back and forth. I just like silly things like that. I just remember just playing. And we have so many stories about writing our bike. I mean just everything. That's cute. Yeah, I was really close. Both my sisters love them.

[Addie]

Mine is like we had an abrupt above ground pool. Like I think my parents got a new one every single summer. Oh, My gosh. And so that was a commitment. Yeah, I know. I surely maybe they reused it, but I don't know. But swimming in the pool with them is really fun. And we had a trampoline. We played lots of of games on our trampoline of doing that. And we'd play princesses. We have a really long staircase in our house, so we would walk down like princesses down the staircase. So I remember that. And then I remember like every Friday night we would do. We would get red box movies and my dad would pick it out and it was always some talking animal movie that we would watch. Just animated characters.

[Abby]

That's cute.

[Abby Howard]

That just unlocked a memory. I used to give, when I got my first digital camera, I used to give Sophie, my younger sister, the craziest, like the craziest makeup, put her in these insane outfits. And then we'll just make her go to photo shoots around the house and in public. And then I get the pictures printed, printed.

[Abby]

Like I need these.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, I'm putting these.

[Addie]

Okay, last one.

[Abby]

Hi, it's Lily. I love your guys. This podcast, I was just wondering what you do to keep your kids busy when you're taking a shower. Because it's hard to take a shower when your kids are always barging in. And I just need some fun tips for that.

[Abby Howard]

I did something so reckless today. I don't know if I should say that I did this on the podcast.

[Addie]

I want to hear it. What you do and wait, we can take.

[Abby]

We'll evaluate.

[Abby Howard]

I had a shower like after the gym to come before I came here. And so I turned the house alarm on so like no outside doors could open. And I put, I gave Vivian a bottle and I left her in the living room. Cuz I know it's like pretty baby proof. And I just left CJ and her out there and went and showered. Is that pretty reckless?

[Abby]

No.

[Abby Howard]

What are you going to do? I don't know. I just left the baby out there with a two year old in charge. Like, is that bad?

[Abby]

I was like thinking about it in

[Abby Howard]

the shower and I was like, hurry up. I don't know if that's like something I would. I've only done that one time. That's the first time I've done it. Usually I put.

[Abby]

What else you do?

[Abby Howard]

When Vivian was a baby, I'd put her in the bassinet. I would, I put her in her crib. I put C.J. in his crib for a long time until he could climb out. I put her in her like standing toys. But C.J. now, he's old enough where I can kind of leave him alone. Usually he sits on my bed while I shower.

[Abby]

Yeah. Well, I just turned on a show today so I could shower.

[Abby Howard]

Why didn't I think of that?

[Abby]

I just turned on Daniel Tiger. Yeah. So I could shower. And let me tell you, they don't move.

[Abby Howard]

No, they don't.

[Abby]

They do not move when there's a shower.

[Abby Howard]

I do that on the weekends. Yeah.

[Abby]

Glue.

[Addie]

They're glued. And I shower when she naps.

[Abby]

When they were babies, I would just put them in a bouncer outside the shower. That was always so stressful if they started crying. I remember that.

[Addie]

Yeah, I did do that. I'd, like, have it open just a little bit so she could see me.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Addie]

Sometimes I'd probably. If she was awake and I needed to shower, probably just put her in the bathroom to crawl around.

[Abby]

Yeah, I did that, too. And I remember just my. Everything coming out of my. Out of my cabinets.

[Addie]

She can't open cabinets.

[Abby]

And I was like, yeah, yeah, she

[Addie]

can't do that yet.

[Abby Howard]

So, yeah, you just. You just do what you can.

[Abby]

It's really scary.

[Abby Howard]

You just try to contain them as much as you can.

[Abby]

That is literally one of the hardest parts that you don't think about that and going to the public restroom when you have a baby or two.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, I was thinking about this. I just don't. I just don't go to the bathroom. Well, I just try to hold it.

[Abby]

I will.

[Abby Howard]

With C.J. when I was pregnant, he was old enough to. Where he would stand there and not touch such things. But with a baby, it's very hard. It's extremely.

[Abby]

I don't go that I feel like I gotta go.

[Addie]

Sometimes I would leave her strap, too.

[Abby Howard]

Keep them in the duna.

[Abby]

Yeah, just try and keep my.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah, you're like, make sure all my straps are lifted.

[Addie]

Oh, my gosh. When she would, like, come in the bathroom now, like, she'll crawl in the bathroom while I'm trying to go to the bathroom and crawl up on my legs. And I'm like, this isn't sanitary at all.

[Abby Howard]

It only continues.

[Addie]

All right, that's it for voicemails for today.

[Abby Howard]

Those are good questions.

[Abby]

If you want to call in and also leave a voicemail, we'd love to hear from you. Our number is 602-456-9690. It'll also be in the description.

[Abby Howard]

Fun. Last thing we got is always hungry recipe. Okay, let's hear it.

[Abby]

It's so easy, too. Everything is pre Made in this, which is really against what I stand for, really. But ice cream cake. Cookie ice cream cake that we made was absolutely delicious. It's like a. I would say it tastes just like the DQ ice cream cake, really. But every element of it is pre made. And it's so easy. Like, all of our friends were like, this is. Like, this is so good. So I'll link it. The recipe, it's super simple, but you basically just you. It's a cookie base with ice cream, and you can swap out, like, the flavor of cookie dough and the type of ice cream you use. But we use Ben and Jerry's milk and cookies ice cream. And then chocolate chip nestle cookies in the bottom, and then hot fudge Cool Whip, which it was unexpected, but when it. Cool Whip is frozen, it is a great texture.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

It is mini chocolate chips and then chips Ahoy cookies on top, which you could swap all those ingredients out. But it. If you. You need to prep it and it has to sit in the freezer for a really long time.

[Abby Howard]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But once it solidifies all together, it is so good. Now I just want to try a bunch of combinations. Like, a mint chocolate one would be so good with Oreos. Like those mint Oreo thins.

[Abby Howard]

Or what did you assemble it in?

[Abby]

In a springform pan.

[Abby Howard]

Okay.

[Abby]

Yeah. But you could also just use.

[Abby Howard]

I said in the air. Is it just dripping? You know, it's just.

[Abby]

No. No springform ham or like, even just. You could probably just use a cake

[Abby Howard]

pan and just flip it out.

[Abby]

No, I would. You wouldn't be able to flip it out. That's my criticism. It is literally like breaking concrete trying to get it out there.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, yeah. It's worth.

[Abby]

It's worth every minute of effort. Effort.

[Abby Howard]

That ice cream sandwich we had in Tahoe, I think about it a lot. That's not from the baked bear. I was way. That was way better than it should have been.

[Abby]

That hurt my stomach so bad.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, I felt fantastic.

[Abby]

No bathroom to be found.

[Abby Howard]

My recipe is maple glazed salmon bites. I've always made my salmon the same way. Just, like really herby and very good. But I kind of want to mix it up. And so last night I made sand bowls and I used this recipe. It was a very simple. Just literally mixed up in a bowl, poured over, and you bake them and. Yeah, it was delicious. I love that. A sweet little flavor put over rice. And I made some lemon roasted brussels sprouts with it. It's really good.

[Abby]

Yum. Yeah. All right, what do we hear?

[Abby Howard]

What Are we. What are we doing right here?

[Abby]

Let me hear it if you're still listening. You guys, this is a big day for me, actually, and why I'm holding off to the very end because I'm so nervous. But if you're still here, then maybe you like us enough that it's safe to say I have launched my first. First ever product. And it is a mascara Bismill beauty and special shout out to Addie for being literally logistics coordinator extraordinaire. I mean, there has been. It's like, crazy to think they let anyone do these types of things. I'm like, we are just out here just mom and popping this, really, like, trying to pull this together. Now, granted, we have a team and help, but when it really comes down to the studs of it all, it's like, wow, this is on us. And so that's why it's kind of scary, too. But it's out there. I personally really believe in this product. I really, really do. And I have used it myself for a very long time now. Lots of testing and logistics went into this and it's here now, which is crazy. Get it while you can and, yeah, we'll just see what comes of this.

[Abby Howard]

I cannot wait. I got.

[Abby]

I got mascara for all y'.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

All.

[Abby Howard]

So proud of you, ab.

[Abby]

Thank you. It's really crazy.

[Abby Howard]

I'm proud of you. This has been years in the making. Years of dreaming, testing, innovating.

[Abby]

Yeah. Road.

[Abby Howard]

Featuring the brand. So many bumps.

[Abby]

So many bumps.

[Abby Howard]

So many bumps for both you, Matt, Addie, like, you guys have been working your tails off and I'm just proud of you.

[Abby]

And I can't wait.

[Abby Howard]

Today is going to be amazing. I know. It's going to be so amazing. So we can't wait to celebrate you.

[Abby]

Yes. Thank you. Yes. It's here, so we'll put a link to it. And I'm really excited to hear you guys feedback and beauty. It's literally wild. I'm sick to my stomach. Thanks, guys. I really appreciate in advance, like, thank you to anyone that is able to even just follow the page or purchase one for yourself even. It really means a lot.

[Abby Howard]

Well, there's nothing that you do half a truly.

[Abby]

Thank you.

[Abby Howard]

And I feel like even just when it comes to, like, your job, you never take sponsorships or anything that you don't fully believe in. And I just know this product is something that you're like, if you're putting your name on it, you. You fully believe in this.

[Abby]

I do.

[Abby Howard]

And so I can't wait for everyone to try it.

[Abby]

I know it's real. It's good. It's here. You can buy it.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

Woohoo.

[Abby]

Crazy.

[Abby Howard]

So crazy. I think that's all we got.

[Abby]

Review.

[Abby Howard]

Oh, okay, perfect. Let me read it. I wasn't looking at a list of things. This is really sweet. Jaden. E left a five star review and said best podcast. I look forward to listening every single week. I'm a longtime listener of unplayed Matt Nabi YouTube and this is also amazing. You all are so entertaining, encouraging and of course hilarious. Best to listen to while cooking, cleaning or even just rotting in bed. I love you guys. Thank you so much.

[Abby]

Thank you Jaden.

[Abby Howard]

Means a lot reading your guys reviews and seeing them. I was actually looking. Spotify is almost 3 over 3, 000 reviews.

[Abby]

Wow.

[Abby Howard]

And I think Apple maybe just hit a thousand which is insane. So thank you guys for taking the time to hit the five stars to write and encourage encouragement to us. It just, I mean it means so much and it's helpful for other people too, obviously that are trying to find the show. So we are so grateful.

[Abby]

Yeah, seriously. Thank you so much.

[Abby Howard]

All right, on that note, remember, we're always here.

[Guest/Ad Speaker]

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[Abby]

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[Abby Howard]

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[Abby]

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[Abby Howard]

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