AMERICAN HISTORY HIT
Episode: American Traitors: Axis Sally
Host: Don Wildman | Guest: Professor Michael Flam (Ohio State University)
Original release: August 21, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the story of Mildred Gillers, known as "Axis Sally," one of the most infamous American propagandists for Nazi Germany during World War II. Through an engaging discussion between host Don Wildman and Professor Michael Flam, an expert in 20th-century American political history, listeners explore Gillers’ troubled personal background, her trajectory from Maine to Berlin, her controversial broadcasts, arrest and trial for treason, and her legacy in American history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Axis Sally: Introduction and Context

• The episode starts by examining the role of propaganda in wartime: “If guns and artillery are designed to destroy walls, machinery, and people, then propaganda targets hearts and minds.” (Don Wildman, 01:53)
• Mildred Gillers, an American who became a Nazi propagandist in WWII, is the focal point.
• Professor Flam’s expertise is introduced, including his 2017 lecture on Gillers.

2. Mildred Gillers’ Early Life and Path to Germany

• Born in Portland, Maine, 1900; experienced a difficult childhood with an abusive, alcoholic stepfather.
• Studied drama and German at Ohio Wesleyan University (1918–1922), but left without earning a degree.
• Ambitions in acting led her to NYC, then Algiers (following a lover, Bernard Metz, a British Jewish diplomat), and finally Berlin in 1934.
• Early Berlin years:
  • Taught English at Berlitz, worked as a translator at Ufa (German equivalent of Hollywood).
  • “She began in Germany teaching English at the Berlitz School, then went to work as a translator at Ufa.” (Prof. Flam, 04:23)
• The allure of Germany: a combination of language skills, career ambitions, and the country’s prosperity compared to Depression-era US.

3. Integration into Nazi Germany and Broadcasting Career

• Gillers becomes involved in Berlin’s cultural scene, dating scientists and scholars, notably Max Otto Koischwitz, who would become both her lover and producer (14:02).
• Begins as "Midge at the Mic," hosting musical variety shows introducing American music to German audiences.
  • “She is the highest paid performer on Reich radio during the war.” (Prof. Flam, 06:40)
• Shift from music to propaganda starts in 1942 under Koischwitz’s direction.
• Possibility discussed that Gillers was pressured or coerced into broadcasting Nazi propaganda, especially after her passport was seized, leaving her effectively trapped in Germany (19:49).

4. Propaganda, Persona, and Content of Broadcasts

• Gillers’ broadcasts targeted American and British soldiers, leveraging her American accent and midwestern mannerisms to sound “just like home.”
• Her main strategy: sow doubt about the war’s purpose (“not America’s war, but Britain’s; and that Jews were behind it”) and demoralize troops regarding their families’ fidelity.
  • “Her gig is to basically discourage these homesick Americans from fighting and speculating about their wives and the sweethearts at home…” (Don Wildman, 23:53)
• Antisemitism became “a major feature of her propaganda broadcasts” (Prof. Flam, 24:56), though her precise motivations remain debated.
• Comparison to "Tokyo Rose": Axis Sally was more insidious due to her authentic American voice and cultural cues.

5. Effectiveness and Reception among Soldiers

• Evidence is scant that her broadcasts had any demoralizing effect; most GIs found them amusing or enjoyed the American music (29:33).
  • “We don't have any real evidence that she managed to dishearten or demoralize any American GIs.” (Prof. Flam, 29:33)
• Iconic “Vision of Invasion” broadcast became central to her later prosecution—a scripted radio drama rather than a spontaneous address.

6. Arrest, Trial, and Aftermath

• After Germany’s surrender, Gillers lived under an assumed name before being arrested by the British and extradited to the US (36:33).
• Indicted on 10 counts of treason. Trial took place in New York (38:27), dominated by Cold War anxieties overshadowing the case.
• Legal focus on whether her propaganda met the constitutional bar for treason; ultimately convicted on only one count (broadcast of “Vision of Invasion”).
• Received 10–30 years in prison and a $10,000 fine; served 12 years in Alderson Federal Prison, converting to Catholicism and learning seamstress skills.
• Upon release, lived quietly in a convent in Ohio, working to finally complete her college degree (43:33, 47:29).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ambiguity of motives:

  • “We know a great deal about Mildred's actions. We know very little about her motives and intentions.”
    (Prof. Flam, 05:25)

• On Axis Sally’s persona:

  • “She is the most popular broadcaster that Reich Radio employs, which is why she's the highest paid…she is at the heart of it.”
    (Prof. Flam, 31:20)

• On the propaganda’s impact:

  • “I've seen no evidence that her propaganda had any real impact whatsoever. If anything…she was diverting resources the Nazi government might have used more productively elsewhere.”
    (Prof. Flam, 46:48)

• On her trial and legal drama:

  • “The trial is not an even or level playing field…Mildred doesn't help her case either. During testimony, she commits perjury. She denies that, in fact, she's the person who made some of those broadcasts.”
    (Prof. Flam, 39:49)

• On her post-prison life:

  • “She really does fade away. Ultimately, when she is released from prison…one of the conditions…is that she not seek any kind of publicity or attention, that she live quietly…”
    (Prof. Flam, 43:33)

• On empathy and judgment:

  • “I do have some sympathy. I will also add that when it came time to pay that price, she accepted it. She served her full sentence…”
    (Prof. Flam, 45:38)

• On her unsatisfying moment in the limelight:

  • “She wanted one more moment in the limelight…that moment does attract national media attention…”
    (Prof. Flam, 47:29)

Important Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |:------------:|------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:15 | Introduction to treason and propaganda in war | | 03:42 | Professor Flam introduces Gillers’ early background | | 05:25 | Nature of Gillers’ upbringing and questions about motives | | 12:18 | Gillers’ radio career origins | | 15:48 | American attitudes toward Germany and Gillers’ context | | 19:49 | Details on Gillers’ passport seized—trapped in Germany | | 22:13 | Pressure to do propaganda broadcasts as Axis Sally | | 23:53 | Tactics of broadcasts: demoralization, antisemitism | | 29:33 | GI reaction to broadcasts—“amused” rather than demoralized | | 33:49 | Legal complexities: citizenship’s role in treason charges | | 36:33 | Axis Sally’s post-war capture and arrest | | 38:27 | Details of trial, media attention, and legal proceedings | | 42:53 | Sentence, prison life, and post-release conditions | | 45:38 | Host and guest reflect on Gillers’ legacy and psychology | | 46:48 | Effectiveness of wartime propaganda questioned | | 47:29 | Gillers’ attempt to reclaim her degree and fleeting notoriety|

Tone and Approach

The episode maintains a reflective, nuanced tone, balancing condemnation of Gillers’ actions with a measure of empathy for her background and circumstances. Both Don Wildman and Prof. Flam avoid simplistic or black-and-white judgments, emphasizing the “murky gray zones” of history, personal ambition, and coercion in extremist times.

Conclusion

"American Traitors: Axis Sally" is a compelling exploration of one individual’s journey from American undergrad to notorious wartime propagandist—and the complex, often ambiguous moral terrain that accompanied it. Listeners gain insights not just into Gillers’ life and trial, but also into the broader roles of propaganda, personal agency, and justice in times of conflict.

Recommended for those interested in WWII, media history, legal dilemmas, and the psychology of collaboration and treason.