America's War Against Pirates

Summary

American History Hit – “America’s War Against Pirates”

Host: Don Wildman
Guest: Dr. Abigail Mullen, Assistant Professor of Naval History, U.S. Naval Academy
Date: May 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the early 19th-century conflicts known as the Barbary Wars, examining America’s struggle against piracy (and “piracy”) in the Mediterranean. Host Don Wildman interviews Dr. Abigail Mullen about the real story behind the so-called Barbary pirates, the birth of the U.S. Navy, the dramatic episodes of these wars, and their lasting impact on American foreign policy and military tradition. Together, they challenge common myths and highlight how these forgotten conflicts helped shape the young U.S. republic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: The Early American Republic

• Backdrop: Only 20 years after independence, the U.S. finds itself intervening militarily overseas for the first time (02:00).
• Founding Context: At home in 1800, government institutions are new and fragile—especially the Navy and diplomatic corps, which have just been built (05:33).
• Birth of the Navy: The U.S. Navy was formally established in 1794 as a temporary, defensive measure against threats in North Africa (07:15).

  “The Navy doesn’t get founded until 1794. And it is in direct response to the North African crisis.” —Abigail Mullen [07:15]

Who Were the "Barbary Pirates"?

• State Actors, Not Pirates: The so-called Barbary pirates were actually state-sponsored privateers from four North African states—Morocco, Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli. Three were Ottoman dependencies; one (Morocco) was independent (12:34).
• Legal Extortion: The Barbary states operated a tribute system: European (and later, American) nations paid for safe passage and peace. If no agreement existed, raiding was legal by their system (14:41).

  “They’re not pirates...they’re actually state actors, and they’re acting within a legitimate and ratified legal framework.” —Abigail Mullen [17:13]

• Captivity, Not Slavery: Captured sailors were held as bargaining chips, not as slaves in the American chattel sense, but more for ransom (18:53).

American Humiliation & The Road to War

• Tribute and Insult: American ships, like the USS George Washington, were compelled to deliver tribute for Barbary rulers—even sailing under a foreign flag, which was perceived as a deep humiliation (20:21).

  “The very first naval interaction the United States Navy has with the Barbary States with Algiers is in being its little cargo ship, which is…humiliating.” —Abigail Mullen [20:21]

• Jefferson’s Policy: Thomas Jefferson, upon becoming president, opposed further tribute and sought to stand up to Barbary extortion (21:49).

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The First Barbary War (1801–1805)

Outbreak:

• Tripoli declared war on the U.S. after being denied demands equal to those of Algiers; Americans refused to pay larger tributes (29:25).
• Jefferson ordered a naval blockade and military action (29:52).

Early Struggles:

• Initial blockades by large American ships were ineffective; Tripoli easily ran their blockade (30:09).

The Philadelphia Incident [31:09–38:18]:

• Disaster: USS Philadelphia ran aground and was captured, its 400-man crew taken hostage and the ship refloated by Tripolitans (31:09).

  “Lots of people have different feelings about whether or not that was the right call, including his commodore Edward Preble, who reassures him...and then in letters back to the Secretary of the Navy is like, what is that guy’s deal?” —Abigail Mullen [32:09]

• Heroism: Lt. Stephen Decatur led a daring raid, disguised as a local ship, to burn the Philadelphia in Tripoli harbor, becoming the youngest U.S. captain ever promoted on heroism (34:20–38:18).

  “They set all the charges...and then the ship blows up. And it works absolutely. Every single piece of this plan works absolutely perfectly.” —Abigail Mullen [37:15]

• Limited Results: Despite public acclaim, the action had little direct impact on ransom or negotiations.

The Battle of Derna – America’s First Overseas Land Battle [39:36–44:34]:

• Land Campaign: William Eaton and mercenaries, with support from the Marines, marched across the desert from Egypt to take Derna. This was a feat of endurance more than military might.
• City Falls Quickly: Despite being heavily fortified, Derna was taken in about two hours, with Marines (famously only eight!) credited for leading the charge (41:06).
• Negotiation, Not Conquest: Instead of marching on Tripoli, the U.S. used the capture as leverage for negotiation. They agreed to pay a $60,000 ransom for prisoners but ceased further tributes to Tripoli. However, tribute payments to other Barbary states continued (44:34).

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The Second Barbary War (1815) and the End of the System

• Brief Show of Force: After the War of 1812 and the defeat of Napoleon, a pent-up U.S. Navy—with officers like Stephen Decatur and William Bainbridge eager for action—set sail to end Barbary extortion for good (47:32).
• Decatur's Swift Diplomacy: Mostly, it was “diplomacy at gunpoint” as Decatur intimidated Algiers into signing a peace treaty after a show of naval power. There were no decisive battles (51:13–52:02).

  “They park their ships off of Algiers…and say, last time we were here, we had one ship, but now we’ve got 50. So, like, what are you going to do?” —Abigail Mullen [51:25]

• Legacy: Full eradication of the tribute system is due as much to later British action (notably Lord Exmouth’s bombardment in 1816) as to American efforts (52:09).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Nature of Barbary “Piracy”:

  “Piracy is in the eye of the beholder. If your ship gets taken and you don’t like it, then you’re going to call somebody a pirate.”
  — Abigail Mullen [17:13]

• On American Perception and Reality:

  “The United States has never been isolated. Not. And not in that way. No.”
  — Abigail Mullen [57:13]

• On Legacy:

  “Diplomacy doesn’t work without some force behind it…It becomes obvious that the United States needs some kind of official representation in a lot of places in the world so that commerce can continue unabated.”
  — Abigail Mullen [53:34]

• On the Marines’ Myth:

  “The Marines like to tell the story that the eight Marines go in and impressively take the whole city. I think that’s unlikely…but the moral of the story is Hamet’s forces are successful in Derna.”
  — Abigail Mullen [42:02]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:00 – Dramatic intro: Burning of the USS Philadelphia in Tripoli
• 03:49–07:14 – U.S. homefront context; founding the Navy and diplomatic corps
• 12:25–17:31 – Explanation of Barbary states and “piracy”
• 18:53 – The real story of Barbary captivity
• 20:21 – The USS George Washington humiliation
• 29:25–31:09 – Tripoli’s declaration of war and start of hostilities
• 31:09–38:18 – USS Philadelphia is captured and burned
• 39:36–44:34 – Battle/march to Derna and its impact
• 47:32–52:02 – The Second Barbary War; Decatur’s squadron
• 53:34–57:17 – Legacy for the U.S. Navy and American foreign policy

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Episode Takeaways

• First Overseas Military Action: The Barbary Wars mark the U.S.’s debut as a global naval and diplomatic actor.
• Myth vs. Reality: The conflicts were less about piracy and more about international politics, differing legal systems, and commerce.
• Legacy: America’s foreign policy—insisting on respect and refusing tribute—grows from these wars, marking a shift toward power projection. The Navy’s permanence is (at last) justified.
• Isolationism Debunked: Even in its infancy, the U.S. was never truly isolationist.

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Recommended Reading:
Dr. Abigail Mullen, To Fix a National Character: The United States in the First Barbary War, 1800–1805

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For further episodes, follow American History Hit with Don Wildman for bi-weekly insights into US history’s lesser-known but vital chapters.

Transcript

[Don Wildman]

Want to explore even more history? Sign up to History Hit, where you will discover history from around the world. From the American Revolution to prehistoric Scotland, there is plenty to discover. With your subscription. You'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com subscribe to bring the Past Alive.

[Abigail Mullen]

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[Don Wildman]

It is February 1804, in the dark waters of Tripoli harbor on the shores of North Africa. Flames climb high into the night sky as the American warship Philadelphia burns fire, consuming its wooden hull, sending sparks swirling high above the harbor. Along the waterfront, a crowd gathers to watch the spectacle while out of sight, beyond the glow of the fire, a small vessel filled with Americans slips quietly and covertly out to sea. Just 20 years after gaining independence from Great Britain, the United States has found itself enmeshed in a distant conflict on Mediterranean shores in a dangerous web of privateers, tribute, diplomacy and war. But why? Why was America fighting on the far side of the Atlantic against pirates and warlords? What could this possibly mean for a fragile republic only now climbing to its feet as a nation? And how would this obscure struggle help transform the United States into an emerging force on the world stage? Greetings all. Welcome to American History hit. I'm your host, Don Wildman. Thanks for listening. Today we speak of piracy on the high seas and the Barbary wars of the early 1800s with an expert on the subject. Abigail Mullen is an assistant professor of naval history at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. The midshipman. She is the author of To Fix a National the United states in the First Barbary War, 1800-1805. Professor Mullen. Abby, very nice to have you here.

[Abigail Mullen]

Thank you. It's really great to be here.

[Don Wildman]

We're going to talk today about military and diplomatic events that few Americans. Americans. Know anything about, but which are fundamental to the development of this country, especially the. The Navy. In your view, why are the Barbary War so little understood by Americans?

[Abigail Mullen]

That's a great question. And before I answer it, I need to say a little disclaimer, which is that everything you're going to hear from me today is my own opinion, and it is not the opinion of the United States Naval Academy or the Department of Defense or the United States government. So insofar as they have an official position on the first bribery war, I will not be delivering it today. I'm just speaking to you from my own academic perspective.

[Don Wildman]

Fantastic.

[Abigail Mullen]

So, yeah, why are the. Why is the first bribery war, or even more so, the second one, so little understood? I think in part because, reasonably speaking, it doesn't seem that important. It is not a big war. It doesn't make the headlines. It doesn't. There's not big moments. There are a few. I'm sure we'll talk about the few that are the big moments in the war. But it's not like the United States goes and crushes their opponent or anything like that, and no major legislation comes out of it or anything like that. So it sort of feels like it

[Don Wildman]

just sort of happened.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah.

[Don Wildman]

But the fact is, obviously, you've written a whole book on the subject. It's very much not that way. It's the fact of the fragmented events of this that happen over time. And there's two different ones. The origin story's a little cloudy. We're gonna straighten all this out today. So before we dive into this, into the Mediterranean and all of what is so complicated about that part of the world at this time, what is happening back here at home in 1800, just to give us context.

[Abigail Mullen]

So the question of what's going on in 1800, I think from the perspective of thinking about this conflict in North Africa, you kind of actually have to back up a little bit because the situation changes pretty drastically after the Constitution gets ratified. So the crisis with North Africa starts Right after the revolution, as soon as the United States no longer has the protection of the Royal Navy for its commerce. But of course that happens under the Articles of Confederation. And so it's a whole different, literally a whole different country. It's a whole different governmental system. And so one of the key things that changes between the first encounter with North African Corsairs and the beginning of the war is the Constitution gets ratified, as you mentioned, and of course, George Washington becomes the president. And so all of the sort of spin up things that we think about, the founding of the country, all that stuff, that's all happening. But part of what it takes to build a country is building a bureaucracy, building an apparatus whereby state power can actually be used. And there's two particular places where the United States is building kind of from scratch in a lot of ways, and those are the military and the diplomatic corps. And both of those are going to be critical in understanding what's going on in North Africa. And in both cases, the United States is kind of figuring this out as they go along. And so of all the things that you just mentioned, the Constitution and the end of the revolution, the thing that has happened the most recently as of 1800, is the founding of the Navy itself.

[Don Wildman]

Hmm.

[Abigail Mullen]

So the Navy doesn't get founded until 1794. And it is in direct response to the North African crisis that it gets founded. But the same thing can be true, can be said for the State Department, that the real diplomatic apparatus of the United States is just really very, very, very brand new. There's no ambassadors, there's not going to be ambassadors for a long time. There's no sort of state, head of state to head of state negotiation going on. There's no permanent, what we sort of think of as like permanent diplomatic presence in most places. And so whatever conflicts the United States has in the world, it's kind of figuring them out on the fly. And it is complicated and it doesn't always go great.

[Don Wildman]

I love the, the Barbary wars is really the beginning of the challenge of dealing in the world on multiple levels. This is certainly the first military conflict we go into overseas, as we will discuss. But also it becomes, you know, we think of France and Ben Franklin and all that as the, the diploma diplomacy. And that was. Begins at all, and certainly that did. But this is the first time America is really thinking, oh my goodness, we're in this whole world and we're gonna have threats all over the world and we have to have policies and all the rest of it that go into It Barbary wars stakes that ground, doesn't it?

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah, it does and it doesn't. So that the thing that is the most important to understand about the first Barbary War, and the Navy in particular, is that when the Navy was founded in 1794, it was founded as an ad hoc, temporary organization. So the act that creates the Navy, the Naval Armament Act, I teach my students about this all the time, and I make a big deal about this. The act that founds the Navy specifically has a clause in it that says, if peace is signed with Algiers, then this whole Navy thing goes away.

[Don Wildman]

Hmm.

[Abigail Mullen]

Because there's deep suspicion of a Navy that exists all the time during peacetime. Same thing with the army. And this is, in part, a legacy of what the. How the former British colonists had perceived what navies do, which is maintain an empire. And at this exact moment, not many people are thinking about the United States as an empire, present or future. So they don't want a standing Navy. Many people don't want a standing Navy. Certainly plenty do. There's a big, you know, Congressional debate about this. And so the. The Navy that arises in 1794 is actually a compromise Navy. It's very small. It's a total of six ships, which is not very many ships. And it is specifically meant to be a temporary measure. And so when I teach about this in class, I always ask my students, so, did the United States sign peace with Algiers? Because I always say, this is the founding document of the Navy that you are in right now. So the logical conclusion is the United States didn't sign peace with Algiers, but they did.

[Don Wildman]

Wow. Interesting.

[Abigail Mullen]

They did sign peace with Algiers in 1795. So literally one year after the Navy is founded by the Naval Armament Act. So what happened is that the United States finds out that diplomacy is more complicated than they thought, because the thing that's going on in the world that's so important that the United States gets caught up in is the Napoleonic wars, and they don't want to take a side. And George Washington sort of famously doesn't take a side in this. There's a neutrality act in 1792. And then, of course, if you've watched Hamilton, you know all about the neutrality, the discussion about neutrality. And it turns out that the United States can't actually stay out of that conflict because both sides don't want the United States to remain neutral. And so both sides see the way that the United States acts towards the other side as being hostile or aggressive. And so they get in trouble with everybody, and so the argument is made by some more Navy focused, let's say Navy focused congressmen, that it would be foolish to get rid of this Navy that just started getting built when it's obvious that there are still maritime threats on the horizon. And so even though Algiers, the Barbary States, are the impetus for the creation of the Navy, the fact that it sticks around after peace is signed with Algiers is because of the Napoleonic Wars. And then it turns out to be a good thing because France essentially goes to war with the United States in 1798. And the Navy's first deployment then is not to the Barbary States, but to the Caribbean, where it's fighting against France. So it's sort of a dry run for the Barbary War, in some ways.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah. It's a very complicated time. We think of. So many Americans, think of the Revolution as we parted ways with all that trouble in Europe. But in fact, we were very quick to hang.

[Abigail Mullen]

It always follows.

[Don Wildman]

And in some ways, the Barbary States are part of that story. Not directly, but yes. Also now we're at 1800. Thomas Jefferson is about to be the new president he elected in 1800. Famously, a man who cares a lot about international, loves Paris intellectually, but who politically was very much turned inward. He was one who wanted to stay out of these kinds of things and these entanglements as president, ideally. Anyway. So first, the basics of this story that we're talking about. Who were the Barbary States, and how did they pose any kind of threat to the U.S. yeah.

[Abigail Mullen]

So this is the number one question that anyone always asks about this, which is totally reasonable. And so this is where I get to say they're not pirates.

[Don Wildman]

Oh, there you go. I built it wrong.

[Abigail Mullen]

It's. You're not alone. They're not pirates. And here's why. Because the way the Barbary system works is, first of all, there's four Barbary States going from. If you start from the Atlantic and go into the Mediterranean, you've got Morocco and then Algiers and then Tunis and then Tripoli. Those are the four Barbary States, and they are. Obviously, they're in North Africa, and three of the four of them are nominally dependencies of the Ottoman Empire. So they pay tribute to the Ottoman state, but that's basically the extent of Ottoman control of these three. The one that's independent is Morocco. So the one that is. That controls the bottom half of the Strait of Gibraltar. And these four states are not powerful, but they're in a situation where their geography allows Them to exert some sort of secondary power in a way that's never going to make them into a big power like Britain, but it's going to make them able to survive in a place that isn't that good at growing things. For instance, it's not that easy to grow things in North. It does happen. I'm not saying there's no agriculture. There's plenty of agriculture, but the desert is difficult to work with. And so they need some kind of way to support themselves. And the state does, the rulers do. And so way back hundreds of years before this, there were actual, what we might think more of as piratical people coming out of Morocco in particular from Sale. So the first ones that people usually talk about that go really far are the Sale Rovers. But by the 18th century, that sort of one off people just going and attacking people for the fun of it, that doesn't really exist anymore. Instead what's going on is these states either fund ships or they essentially have a little navy that goes out and does what I like to call an extortion wreck, which is that because of the way that the intersection of European style law and Islamic style law works, these Barbary states consider themselves to be at war with all European nations unless they're specifically at peace. Which means if you don't have a treaty, you're at war. It's kind of the opposite of the way that European style law thinks of the steady state of the world, which is that you're at peace unless you're at war. But in this case for a non Islamic country, you're at war unless you're at peace. Which means that any traffic in the Mediterranean is absolutely fair game by the standard. Even European rules of war, which is that you can raid commerce. So these are just commerce raiders. And the way that they make money is not actually by signing or not by capturing ships, even though they do, it's by signing those peace treaties. Because the peace treaties don't come without a price. The peace treaties are let's be at peace. And in order to maintain the peace, you random European nation, including big ones like Great Britain, are going to pay tribute. Money.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah.

[Abigail Mullen]

And it's actually usually not mostly money, it's usually mostly naval stores, which allows these European countries essentially to subsidize attacks on other European countries. They're paying for the navy that takes out other people. This is a good deal actually for even big states like Great Britain, because Britain has got bigger fish to fry. They got to worry about France. They got to worry about Spain and the Dutch and there's all, you know, they got. They got other people to worry about. But if they pay the tribute, if they pay the subsistence of these forces, then that means the Barbary States can be a real thorn in the side of nations that Britain doesn't really have time to deal with. But Algiers is going to take care of them, essentially. That's the logic. And it works, actually. It totally works for Great Britain and for France. Anybody who can pay their tribute basically just does it. And because it's not worth it for them to go and try to fight these Barbary States, they try. Every once in a while, I think Britain tries, like three or four times to get rid of Algiers. Algiers is the most powerful of them. It has the most money, it has the most ships. And Great Britain tries a few times to get rid of them and then decides it's not worth it because Algiers is really heavily fortified and they always, like, grow back like a mushroom. So they just give up and they're like, whatever, we're just going to pay the tribute and let them mess around with the Italians or whatever. It's fine. So when we talk about pirates, these guys aren't pirates. They're actually state actors.

[Don Wildman]

Interesting.

[Abigail Mullen]

And they're acting within a legitimate and ratified legal framework. Everybody agrees to what they're doing. So they're not pirates. Now, of course, piracy is in the eye of the beholder. If your ship gets taken and you don't like it, then you're going to call somebody a pirate. Like, that's just kind of how it was.

[Don Wildman]

So that sail around, there was no Jolly Roger?

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah, there's no Jolly Roger. There's no, like, chopping people's heads off or whatever. But the thing that happens to the captives are what happens when you get captured. So if a ship. If you are in a ship that doesn't have a treaty, then when you get captured, customarily for Europeans, you would take that ship to a prize court, and the prize court would rule on whether it was a good prize. So whether you had done everything lawfully and then you would sell the ship and you might make the prisoners prisoners of war, but just as likely, you're probably going to give them their parole or you're going to just release them because it's too much work. But what the Barbary States do is they actually hold those people captive. And this is often called Barbary slavery. And there are certainly times in the history of the Barbary States where it is More, more like slavery. But it's not really, really slavery and certainly not slavery like when we say slavery in an American context. It's not chattel slavery. It's not race based. It's really more like holding somebody for ransom. And that's what they're hoping they, they actually people die certainly it's a very. They're held in bad conditions but there are ways to get yourself out of the bad conditions. And more importantly what they want is for your rich family to come and pay money to get you.

[Don Wildman]

Sure. Still happens today.

[Abigail Mullen]

And that happens. That actually happens a lot.

[Don Wildman]

Yep.

[Abigail Mullen]

So. But that fear of captivity is what makes the Barbary States so dreaded is first of all it's about them not being European. So that's one thing, it's just some good old racism in there. But it's also about this fear of being held captive in an unfamiliar and terrifying place.

[Don Wildman]

Exactly. If anyone has the obsessive mind I'm cursed with, I looked up why it's called Barbary's dates because of the Berbers, the barbers they were called. And that's like the Berber rugs that you hear about. That area was generally called for those indigenous people that were there. And so it sort of morphs into the Barbary states we talk about today. America had those treaties for a long time from 1787-94. There were several of those situations where they paid tribute to these merchants. What happens in September 1800 starts to change things. The USS George Washington arrives in Mediterranean to deliver tribute to Algiers and they are pressured into allowing the ship to be used as a transport for the Algerians own tribute to the Ottomans. Every. It's just this is where the how the world used to work people. This is. They paid tribute to everybody. So the Alger have to go pay tribute to the Ottomans. I guess that's in Constantinople. And they want to use the USS George Washington for this reason the captain relented and the Algerian fly flag is hoisted over the USS George Washington. Can you imagine that happening today? This incident really humiliated the US didn't it? But why was that different than any other time?

[Abigail Mullen]

So this is actually something where my particular interpretation of this event is different from how it was perceived by the actors at the time for sure. But also most historians have sort of accepted the wisdom of the people who were in the moment and I think they're wrong. So I'm going to tell you my Abby Mullen hot take about the USS George Washington. So yes, it is certainly humiliating from A certain point of view, because the very first naval interaction, this is a navy ship. This is a naval frigate. The very first interaction the United States Navy has with the Burberry States with Algiers is in being its little cargo ship, which is. Yeah, of course, that's humiliating. But the thing that the Americans are not tracking on at that moment is that this is actually customary practice, that other nations, navy ships have done this sort of thing before. It is customary if you're carrying tribute of another nation to fly their flag. It is not actually that big a deal. Nobody's going to be like, oh, no, the Americans, they're so weak because they carried this tribute to Constantinople. Nobody's actually thinking about the Americans at all, to be honest. So they can't be humiliated because no one even knows they exist. So they get very up in arms about this, particularly Captain William Bainbridge. We're going to talk about him again later, I assume. But they take the wrong message.

[Don Wildman]

You're explaining a system that is really. It's kind of a replacement for diplomacy in a way. It's just an understanding that this is all going to exist the way it is, the way it's been for a long time. And the Americans have agreed to enter into this system. But at some point, and this is the point of this show, is that they will reject this and that's going to cause a war to happen. They could continue paying tribute to this point. The path they would go down was made clear in 1800 when Thomas Jefferson beats John Adams and ascends to the presidency and argues that America was being subjected to the spoliations of foreign cruisers and humiliated by paying an enormous tribute to the petty tyrant of Algiers. My goodness. After this short break, we'll be back to talk about the opening of hostilities between the Americans. And I was going to call them pirates, but they're not.

[Abigail Mullen]

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[Don Wildman]

Welcome back. I'm speaking with Professor Abigail mullen of the U.S. naval Academy about the Barbary Wars. To recap, Abby, the Thomas Jefferson is now president. The US Is set to confront the Barbary pirates. It's almost like it was part of his campaign to be president. Was it that big a policy of his?

[Abigail Mullen]

Historians disagree about how much this thing mattered, how much the Algerian crisis mattered. And it's important to emphasize that it's an Algerian crisis up to this point. So the other three Barbary States, they're in the mix, but the United States is laser focused on Algiers because they see it as the number one most powerful of these four Barbary states. So, yeah, it certainly does come up. And different historians have different feelings about how much it mattered in terms of Jefferson's approach versus Adams's approach, that kind of thing. But certainly it's part of people are aware that there is a crisis of some kind, even if they aren't necessarily totally aware of what it is that's going on.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, it has to have stung, especially for the people at home that the boat was named after our president, George Washington.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah.

[Don Wildman]

Our first president. Amazingly, you know, daring of them to take that on.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah.

[Don Wildman]

How do the Americans plan to fight to take the fight to the Barbary States? We don't have much of an ability to sail over there and do anything. Right.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah. So this is actually a situation where there's that we have to talk about the diplomats who are in the area because again, the United States rhetoric is very heavily focused on Algiers. But Algiers is not actually the problem here. Algiers is the one getting the most payment. And it's a lot. So the initial treaty is really big, about a million dollars. And that's a lot of money. And so that's, you know, people are rightly focused on that. And so each of these states has a treaty for Algiers. The treaty involves annual payments. And same thing with Tunis, only it's much, much less. But Tripoli's agreement actually does not even include annual payments. It was just a one time sort of lump sum tribute payment. And the problem is that Tripoli looks at what the United States is doing for Algiers and says, how come we're not getting that? And in particular, the thing that they get really worked up about, which may be a little bit understandably, is it's not just the money, but the United States is actually building ships for Algiers. So across the time from 1795 onwards, the United States actually builds five ships for Algiers. And one of them is as big as a US Navy ship and it has guns. So they say, how come Algiers gets all the cool stuff? What are we, second class citizens around here? And so the Bashaw of Tripoli, the ruler of Tripoli, a guy named Yusuf Karamanli, starts talking to the American who has been placed in Tripoli as the diplomatic representative. Now, he's not a diplomat. This is really important. He's not a diplomat, he's a consul. And everywhere else in the world, a consul is just a commercial agent. So someone who is designed, whose job is designed to help merchants get through all the paperwork, essentially. And if they're stranded mariners or whatever, they take care of them. But they do not have an official diplomatic role everywhere else in the world. So when these guys get put in the Barbary States, they are kind of given a job extra from what they really are signed up to do. And some of them really love that and other ones of them don't. So the guy who's in Tripoli really, really hates them. James Leander Cathcart, who is the consul in Tripoli, his main job, as he sees it, is to revenge the humiliations that he and by extension the United States have suffered at the hands of the Barbary States. So the United States lost its first ship to Algiers in 1785. And those captives that were taken in 1785 actually stayed in captivity for 10 years before the United States could actually get them out. So he basically grew up in an Algerian prison. Cause he was young, he was 17 when he first got captured. So when he gets out of captivity, his one main mission in life is to stick it to the Barbary States. So when the bashawab, Tripoli comes to him and says, hey, you need to cut us a better deal. We want a ship. Cathcart says, no, right? And stop asking.

[Don Wildman]

And this results in Tripoli declaring war, right? 1801.

[Abigail Mullen]

That's right. So in 1801, the bashaw tells him, you have six months to figure this out. And if you can't figure it out, then I'm going to declare war. And Cathcart's like, okay, I'm just going to tell everybody to go away. And that's what he does. So he tells the Americans to get out, and they all do. And In May of 1801, the bashaw cuts down the flagpole at the U.S. consulate, which is the signal that he has declared war.

[Don Wildman]

Right. So this, the core idea here is the Americans have refused to pay this tribute. They based on a lot of bad feelings and a long prison sentence. It Sounds like in one one case, it results in February 1802, Congress authorizing President Jefferson to send the Navy across the ocean and blockade the harbor of Tripoli. My goodness, what a moment. Off we go into a foreign incursion. So let's walk through the most famous events of this conflict, because there's a lot of smaller ones. It's tied to several ships. The first naval squadrons sent had proven pretty ineffective at halting these activities that were going on in September 1803. This is Commodore Edward Preble on board the USS Constitution. Oh, my goodness. If you want relevancy, you know, modern relevancy, this is the boat that's. That's still harbored in Boston. You know, you can go see this historic ship most famous for its War of 1812. But it begins its work in September 1803. As I understand it, the Americans institute a blockade, but to limited effect. Their ships are too big to properly enforce it. Eventually they'll get smaller ones, but they'll still struggle to stop the Tripolitan blockade runners. There are two main incidents we should look at, the first being what happens to the USS Philadelphia.

[Abigail Mullen]

Philadelphia is captained by a guy that we've already met, Captain William Bainbridge, who was the captain of the George Washington in 1800. So he's got something to prove here. And he had actually already been in the Mediterranean once. He was in the initial squadron. He was the captain of the Essex in the squadron in 1801. And he's actually the one who made the recommendation for smaller ships. So he, out of anyone, has a better sense of what Tripoli harbor, the perils of Tripoli harbor are. Despite that, he goes to Tripoli and he's enforcing the blockade, and he's chasing a blockade runner into Tripoli Harbor. And because their charts were not done by them and had not been validated by them, they were using mostly French charts. I think his chart was French. On the chart that he had, the entire area around Tripoli harbor had not been fully charted. And so Tripoli. There's a reef out there, it's called Caliusa Reef. And the Philadelphia runs aground on Caliusa Reef on October 31, 1803.

[Don Wildman]

He must have been screaming bloody murder, that guy.

[Abigail Mullen]

After all, lots of contention about, like, what went down after that and whether he did the right thing and should they have fought to the death and all of that stuff. But he judges that there's no chance that they're going to get off this reef. And so it's stupid to have a big firefight where everybody dies, because that's certainly what's going to happen. And so they surrender the Philadelphia to the Tripolitans basically without a shot. And, you know, like I said, lots of people have different feelings about whether or not that was the right call, including his commodore Edward Preble, who reassures him, you know, publicly says, yeah, you did the right thing. You did the right thing. And then in letters back to the Secretary of the Navy is like, what is that guy's deal? Why did he not fight to the death? So, you know, different. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. But the problem is that now Tripoli has two big bargaining chips. Number one is they have the captives of the Philadelphia. They've got almost 400 guys, and some of them are fairly high profile, like the captain of the ship and stuff like that. But they've also got lots of sailors. And then they also have the ship because the tide shifts the next day, and the Tripolitans are able to refloat the Philadelphia. So it's not just out there foundering on the reef, but they actually bring it into the harbor. So now they've got two pretty big bargaining chips. So whatever sort of momentum the United States had been able to develop, which was not much, they're really in a bad situation now. So when Preval arrives finally, he gets there in like, no. Or he learns about this in November, and he then, of course, has to go laser focus on Tripoli, because this can't continue. Something's gotta change here. But they. They spend a long time talking about what they're gonna do, because what they're afraid of is that if the United States does Anything extremely aggressive, then the bashaw is just gonna kill all the captives, which would not be totally unheard of. So they have to tread carefully here.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah. So about six months after this all happens, or during this time in February 1804, this is when a really covert activity happens where an American naval crew sneaks into Tripoli's harbor disguised as a merchant ship, led by a man named Lieutenant Stephen Decatur. Take us through this moment. It's very exciting.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah, it is very exciting. So the thing that they decide to do and they don't tell anybody, even the crew, is they decide they can't get it. They can't get the Philadelphia out of Tripoli harbor because it's anchored under the guns of the fortifications. And, like, people would die and they wouldn't probably actually get it out. So they decide they can't get it back. But if they can't get it back, they can at least keep the Tripolitans from using it. And so they decide to go and burn it. So Stephen Decatur, who's a lieutenant, he's 25 years old and he is just in the squadron, and he gets picked to lead this mission of 70ish volunteers. And they do all volunteer from all the ships in the squadron. And they're going to sail this little ketch that they had captured a few In December of 1803, this Ottoman ketchup. It looks like a Tripolitan ship. They can rig it to look like a Tripolitan ship. They can get all the. You know, so they can sort of. Yeah, go incognito, hopefully. And so they're going to put everybody on board, and then hopefully they're going to swarm up on the Philadelphia, and then they're going to set a bunch of charges and they're going to explode it. And hopefully everybody gets off. And the key actor in this story is the pilot. So there's a pilot who is Maltese, and his name is Salvatore Catalano. And he has a real talent. Number one, he knows the area, so he's not going to run them aground again because that would be embarrassing. But also he speaks all the local languages, including Arabic, which, of course, none of the Americans speak Arabic at all. So when they sail into Tripoli harbor, they actually get a boon. They get a coincidence that works well for them, which is that there's a big storm that comes up. They want to do this at the beginning of February, and Catalano keeps telling them, don't go now, don't go now. You're going to get crushed to death by this storm. And everybody's like, he's just a coward. He doesn't want us to do it. But he was totally right about that. They would definitely have gotten crushed. But then they have the opportunity when they sail into tripoli finally, on February 16, of making the claim that the storm made them lose their anchors, and so they need something to tie up next to. So Catalano calls out to the guards on the Philadelphia, the Tripolitan guards, and says, hey, as you can see, we really got beat up by this storm. Can we. Can we just tie up on the Philadelphia, you know, and we'll. Once the waters find.

[Don Wildman]

They didn't know they were Americans anchors.

[Abigail Mullen]

They didn't know they were Americans. Most of the Americans were below, and Catalan was the only one talking. So, of course, they're all dressed in, you know, Tripolitan garb or whatever, so. But they're most of the crews below, so they can't even see them. And so the Tripolitan guards, they buy it, and they say, oh, yeah, sure. And in fact, they even row a little boat over to the Intrepid, which is the catch. They rename it the Intrepid to help them haul the Intrepid closer to Philadelphia.

[Don Wildman]

Wow.

[Abigail Mullen]

And it's not until they're really close, like, yards away, that the Tripolitans start picking up on something not quite being exactly as described. And so they raise the alarm, they shout, americanos. Americanos. But by then, it's too late. And so the 75 guys swarm over the side, and they set all the charges, and they kill some of the guards, and they go back onto the Intrepid, and Decatur lights the charges, and then they all get back on the Intrepid and they sail away. And then the ship blows up. And it works absolutely. Every single piece of this plan works absolutely perfectly. And so it's. You know, people talk about being able to see the flames of the Philadelphia from miles away, and it's a huge deal, and people get really excited about it. And Decatur gets some good stuff out of this because he gets a promotion to captain out of this. He's a lieutenant, so he actually skips a rank and he goes straight to captain, which makes him the youngest captain ever commissioned as a captain in the U.S. navy. That is still true today, actually. He's still the youngest captain ever, so he gets something out of it.

[Don Wildman]

He will go on to distinguish himself in the war of 1812.

[Abigail Mullen]

He would indeed. Yep. And. Yeah. And again in the Second Barbary War, actually. So. Yeah. So. But the thing is that this action, though, it's heroic and it's awesome. And, like, you know, kudos to Stephen Decatur. It doesn't really get the Americans anything because the Tripolitans were never going to use the ship anyway. They were planning on maybe selling it to Tunis, but the captives don't get any better treatment. They don't get killed. So I guess that's something. But it's not like they make any headway diplomatically by getting rid of the ship. But it's enough to galvanize the Americans to say, okay, like, we can. We can do this. Let's keep going.

[Don Wildman]

The other part of the story is the Battle of Derna. So the US had been debating whether they could end the war with Tripoli just by using naval force. But eventually they decide to go for a land invasion, and they'll topple Tripoli's leader, Yusuf Karmanli. Eventually, a plan put forward by U. S. Diplomat William Eaton got approved, and they joined forces with Yusef Karmanly's rival and brother Hamet. And they gather together a multinational army of mercenaries, Bedouin fighters, and Hamnet's followers and prepare to march on Tripoli. But they leave from Egypt, right?

[Abigail Mullen]

They're in Alexandria, Egypt now, Tripoli, the city of Tripoli is a thousand miles away. So they decide they can't get straight to Tripoli, so they're going to go first to Derna, which is about 5 or 600 miles away from Alexandria, and they're going to start there. And if they can take Derna, then from DNA, they can stage the next attack on the city of Tripoli, which is again, another. About another 500 miles down the road. And of course, this is, like, really challenging because it's desert. This is the center. You know, it's like walking across the desert for six weeks, and they run into all kinds of terrible stuff. They run out of water all the time. And then on a different day, they actually. Their camp gets washed away by a flood, and they don't have food, and Eaton doesn't have any money to pay these guys, and he makes them all kinds of promises. And one thing you can say about William Eaton is even though he had a lot of really outlandish ideas and he had some very strange personality quirks, but that guy knew how to get people moving because somehow, magically, they start this journey in about March of 1805, and by April of 1805, six weeks later, they're outside of Derna. And not only do they still have all 400 of the initial guys, but they've actually brought on another about between 6 and 800. So they got about 1200 guys, roughly. Right.

[Don Wildman]

What was this battle like?

[Abigail Mullen]

So the thing that they needed desperately before they could stage the attack was they needed artillery, and that's where the Navy comes back in. So the two ships that the Navy had promised arrive, and they are able to give them a few cannons, which they haul up this big hill, and it's like a whole thing. And so once the Navy arrives with the supplies and with the cannons, then the attack can really get started. And the shocking thing is that even though the town is very heavily fortified, it's a. You know, it's a walled city, and there's. There's military people in there. Once the attack starts, this force, Hamet's force, takes the city in about two hours. It's. It's a route. And if you ask the Marines, the Marines lead the charge into this. Those eight guys charging into there, and everybody else just comes in and picks up the pieces. After the Marines have already taken the whole city. Yeah, I think that's unlikely.

[Don Wildman]

Okay.

[Abigail Mullen]

I think that's unlikely. I mean, the Marines are awesome, don't get me wrong. But these guys are not trained as expeditionary war fighters or anything like that. They're just ship policemen. So they have no special talents, and they certainly don't have the sort of ethos of the Marine Corps that might make this possible today. I don't know. Probably would not, but still. So. But the Marines like to tell the story that the eight Marines go in and they impressly. O' Bannon is the, you know, the hero of the day, and. Which is fine, like, knock yourself out. But the moral of the story is Hamet's forces are successful in Derna. They take the city, and then they wait, because the next step is supposed to be that they go to Tripoli. But the problem is that Yusuf Kareem Onli has been watching all of this, and he is actually sending forces from Tripoli to Derna. And chances are if Youssef's forces actually get there, they're going to cream the Americans. They're going to cream this force. Bahamut. But he doesn't really want that, because what he really wants is to get rid of Hamet once and for all. And he wants the Americans to help him do it, essentially. So he's kind of tired of this war and this thing that has happened. It did not affect him. Not really. It's just annoying. It's like a fly. And there's actually an expression that the Tunisian ruler uses, which I love, which is that a fly in a man's throat, though it won't kill him. It might make him vomit. And that's kind of what this is. It's just an irritation. But he's tired of fighting the war by this point, and he's tired of the Americans always being around and being annoying. So he's ready to talk to the Navy, to Samuel Barron, and the official negotiator that's come from the United States. So he can see this thing happening. And even though he doesn't see it as an actual existential threat to him, it's a convenient excuse to start talking to the American negotiators. So while Eaton is doing this crazy march across the desert with Hamet, Yusuf is talking to the Americans. And they are very near to actually coming to a peace agreement. And that's actually what happens. They sign a deal, and it's all signed, sealed, and delivered on June 10th. And it's not because of Eaton having done all that stuff, but it's not. Not because he did it. But the thing that happens as a result of this is the United States agrees to pay Tripoli $60,000, which is a ransom for the Philadelphia prisoners.

[Don Wildman]

I see.

[Abigail Mullen]

And then that's it. There will be no tribute payments going forward from the United States. But what Yusuf gets out of this is, is now Hamet is never going to be on the throne of Tripoli, and he's never going to be even in a position where he can make this kind of claim again. Because now that the United States has officially recognized Yusuf again, they can't very well sign up with Hamet. So they can't keep on with Hamet, because now they have this good treaty with Yusuf. And it is a good treaty in terms of. It's not what they want, it's not what the Americans want, but in terms of what it could have been, it's really good.

[Don Wildman]

But the upshot of it and victory for the Americans is we're no longer going to pay these tributes. We accomplished the objective. Right. But is it.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yes.

[Don Wildman]

And no tributes to all of them or just to one of them?

[Abigail Mullen]

So Tripoli, the Tripoli treaty is fine again, the $60,000 payment, but then no treaty or no tribute going forward. But the other treaties are unaffected. So the United States is still going to pay tribute to Algiers. It's still going to pay tribute to Tunis. So the system is not broken. And a lot of times when people talk about this war, they talk about it as being that as the United States breaking this system of Barbary extortion, but that's Absolutely false.

[Don Wildman]

Interesting. Okay, well, we will take a break, and when we come back, we'll talk about the second Barbary War. It's a brief one, and then the resolution and legacy of all of this.

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[Abigail Mullen]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy in his brain. What is this, your first date?

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[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

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[Abigail Mullen]

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[Don Wildman]

Welcome back. As we explained before the break, America has beaten these Barbary States in this war. But it's a subtle and complex victory and by no means the last one that's going to happen. When did war break out again, Abby, on what is called the Second Barbary War. It's a brief episode, right?

[Abigail Mullen]

It is. It's very brief. And again, here, the context matters, because the Second Barbary War is the culmination of a lot of frustration about the War of 1812 in a lot of ways, I think. So two big things are going on in the world in between the end of the first Barbary War and the beginning of what we call the second one.

[Don Wildman]

Which is when, exactly? Just to place the date 1815. Okay, so we are after the war of 1812 now.

[Abigail Mullen]

Exactly. So the two big things that are going on in the world for the United States are continuing and, in fact, ramped up aggression with both Britain and France. And the reason for that is the second thing, which is the Napoleonic wars are raging at this point, and they're only getting more sort of world domination esque. So these two world events are what is occupying the Americans headspace trying to figure out how to navigate. Because at the end of the day, the Barbary States are not nearly as scary as the British. And so when the British and the Americans go to War in 1812, the Algerians. So the Guys that the Americans were afraid of at the beginning, they see an opportunity to start blurring the lines of what is appropriate, treaty bound behavior and not. So they start taking American ships again, even though the United States still does have a treaty with them. And there's some, you know, hijinks here and there, but the United States just doesn't have the bandwidth because they're fighting against Britain. So they can't do anything about it at the time. And of course, the United States does not fare extremely well in the War of 1812 from a naval perspective. So even though there's the big frigate battles at the beginning, which we love, Constitution, Guerrier, we love, but that's in 1812. And then the Royal Navy comes down with the force of the British Navy hammer and blockades the US Navy import basically for the rest of the war. And so all of these people who got their start actually in the first Barbary War, many people who were junior officers in the first Barbary War are now the captains of the frigate navy in 1812. And they're all sitting in port twiddling their thumbs and being annoyed. And the main person who's sitting in port being annoyed is Stephen Decatur. He's an active young man. He wants to get out there and do stuff. And when he tries to run the blockade in 1814 in USS President, he gets captured. And that makes him very angry. So when the war ends, Napoleon is defeated in Europe and the Americans signed the Treaty of Ghent and it's all hunky dory and everything's fine, then they can be like, okay, who can we go get now? We need to like go get this aggression out that we've been hanging onto for these past three years. That's probably an uncharitable way to think about it. But that's how, at least for Decatur, that's how I always think about it. So they're ready to go back and tell Algiers, we just took out the biggest navy on the planet. So sit down and shut up.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah.

[Abigail Mullen]

And Algiers is ready to have that message brought to them. So actually, the Navy authorizes a guy that we've already talked about twice now, William Bainbridge, to take a squadron to Algiers and have a conversation. So do a little more naval diplomacy. Stephen Decatur is like, no way is William Bainbridge going to do that and I don't get to do it. So he takes his own squadron and sails to Algiers in advance of Bainbridge and he gets there first, which of course, you know, that means him and Bainbridge have some other things to talk about later.

[Don Wildman]

But this is in May 1815.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yes.

[Don Wildman]

That Decatur sets sail. So they're sort of racing across the ocean. He gets there first.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yes.

[Don Wildman]

The war is basically several minor skirmishes. Right.

[Abigail Mullen]

I don't even know that. Yeah, I don't even know that there's anything that you could call a battle. Exactly. Because Decatur and Bainbridge pull up to Algiers. They park their ships off of Algiers, and they say, okay, last time we were here, we had one ship, but now we've got 50. So, like, what are you going to do? And Algiers is weakened, not by the United States, but just because of the way that the Napoleonic wars had gone and a variety of other things. They're not in an extremely strong state, and so they're willing to listen and to talk. And so ultimately, there's not much of a war here. It's mostly just diplomacy at gunpoint.

[Don Wildman]

Right. I mean, the story really is the idea of carrying a big stick. It's finally born here for the Americans.

[Abigail Mullen]

But of course, even here, even here, though, we can't give the United States all the credit, because, yes, the United States does accomplish something here in 1815, but it's not until Lord Exmouth from the Royal Navy shows up in 1816 that Algiers really does stop charging tribute to everybody. So even though the United States likes to take credit for breaking the system, they didn't.

[Don Wildman]

There are interesting events. I mean, we take ships, and there's a skirmish off of the Spanish coast. It's all very. Reads. Is very romantic. I'm sure it was a big, messy thing.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Abigail Mullen]

But not much real danger.

[Don Wildman]

Exactly.

[Abigail Mullen]

Not much real danger.

[Don Wildman]

But this. The message here is the growth of the military, I guess, is really important, especially the Navy, obviously. And that's very interesting because in this podcast series, we've talked many times about the fear of Americans, about the standing army, and how that really is always the case right into World War I. As far as us not maintaining this standing army because it represents tyranny. And that's a big theme in American society, certainly through the 19th century. On the other hand, you can't not have a navy because it takes a long time to build boats, for one thing, so you've got to keep that on call. So this is really the message here, that they've kind of created this navy that's going to only get bigger and bigger over time. And now we're. We're really big. One of the lasting legacies. I mean, I'm already on it right there, but Navy Credibility. Right, that's. That's basically the legacy there.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah. I think the way that I like to talk about this is that one of the things that the United States is trying to accomplish in the first war in particular, the second war is kind of a different beast. But in the first war in particular, the United States is trying to establish credibility as a sovereign nation. So the ability to make treaties is really important, but also the ability to enforce them and the ability to not take affronts is the thing the United States is really interested in. And in terms of whether they succeeded in that in the first Barbary War, it's really a mixed bag. But the thing that they get out of this is even in 1805, when the war ends, people are not ready yet to say, let's keep the Navy forever. In fact, Jefferson himself is not ready to say, let's keep a blue water Navy forever. But what they have learned is that diplomacy doesn't work without some force behind it. And so one of the things you see as a result of the ways in which the United States does diplomacy during this war is consuls go a lot more places and they don't have diplomatic powers. Even only the Barbary States guys have sort of diplomatic, quasi diplomatic powers. But the United States starts to expand its commercial reach and allow the state, the power of the state to go further. Because Americans, normal, like standard Americans, regular commercial Americans are already going all over the world. And that's only going to increase. But it becomes obvious that the United States needs some kind of official representation in a lot of places in the world so that that commerce can continue unabated. And after the Second War, after the War of 1812, that is where the Navy really steps in. Because that by the end of The War of 1812, as you said, the question of whether there should be a Navy is kind of settled at that point. Now, what it's gonna look like is certainly not settled, but the fact that it exists is settled. And the reason it's settled is that diplomacy alone turns out to not be able to accomplish those commercial goals for the United States. So even though we think about the years after 1812 or the War of 1812 as being about territorial expansion and people going west and all of that stuff, there's also a significant expansion, for instance, into the Pacific in the commerce sphere. And the Navy's job is going to be to make sure that that commerce can work, can be successful. And so all of these guys who got their start in the first Barbary War are then the senior captains of that commercial Navy. And they take some. Some of them take some lessons from that experience, some of them don't. But I think really what the first Barbary War does for the United States is it shows them what is going to be necessary for the United States to be taken seriously as a sovereign nation. And it is a combo of naval power or the ability to project power out into the world and making sure that your diplomats are where they need to be.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, it's the expanding markets, it's the expansion of sail, a much more active shipping happening. And for that, you need to have diplomacy, but you also need force. You need the ability to. To get there and take care of problems. Battle of Derna. First land battle the US Ever fought on foreign soil. However, the Marines played that role. They were there. It was the first time the Stars and Stripes had been raised on foreign soil. It really is the first time you break the image that the US Is isolationist. You know, we so often hear that about the United States that it's inwardly turned. But really right from the beginning, oh, yeah, we were taking action overseas.

[Abigail Mullen]

No, the United States has never been isolated. Not. And not in that way. No.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, you can. You can call that a myth and apocryphal because we have chosen that far flung fight many times. All the way back. Anyway, Professor Abigail Mullen is headquartered at Annapolis, Maryland, the US Navy Naval Academy. She authored the book we've been discussing to fix a national character, the First Barbary War, 1800-1805. Order today. It's important history. Thank you so much, Abby. Really nice to meet you.

[Abigail Mullen]

Thanks for having me. It's been great.

[Don Wildman]

Thanks for listening to American History hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes, dropping Mondays and Thursdays. From mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode by hitting like and follow. You help us out, which is great, but you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, please share with a friend. American history hit with me, Don Wildman, so grateful for your support. Thanks so much.

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[Abigail Mullen]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human? Him to a bird.

[Abigail Mullen]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

Anyways, Get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Abigail Mullen]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty.

[Instacart Advertiser]

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