Origins of New York

Summary

American History Hit: "Origins of New York" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: July 21, 2025
Host: Don Wildman
Guest: Andrea Mosterman, Associate Professor of Atlantic History and Joseph Tregel Professor in Early American History at the University of New Orleans

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Introduction: The Birth of New Amsterdam

Don Wildman opens the episode with a vivid depiction of the arrival of Dutch settlers in 1624, setting the stage for the transformation of Manhattan from a serene harbor into the bustling metropolis known today as New York City. He highlights the significance of New York's harbor and waterways in shaping both the city and the broader United States.

Don Wildman [01:06]:
"From its earliest days as a European settlement, New York's harbor and waterways have shaped the city, making it thrum with the energy of commerce and the hope of people arriving by ship to seek their fortunes and freedom."

He also mentions the upcoming Sailforth 250 parade, celebrating the nation's 250th birthday with a fleet of ships navigating New York Harbor, emphasizing the enduring legacy of these early settlers.

Early Dutch Colonization and Settlement Efforts

Andrea Mosterman provides an in-depth analysis of the initial Dutch exploration and colonization efforts. She explains Henry Hudson's 1609 voyage, commissioned by the Dutch East India Company, aimed at finding a passage to the East Indies. Although Hudson did not find a viable route, his reports of abundant fur resources ignited Dutch interest in North America for trading purposes.

Andrea Mosterman [04:48]:
"The Dutch were primarily focused on obtaining furs that were in high demand in Europe, which led them to establish trading posts and forts to facilitate these commercial exchanges."

Mosterman outlines the establishment of the Dutch West India Company in 1621, which marked a shift from mere trading ventures to actual settlement endeavors. This company not only sought to expand Dutch commercial interests but also acted as a military force against Spanish dominance, aiming to carve out a global empire.

Daily Life in New Amsterdam

Exploring the everyday experiences of early settlers, Mosterman describes New Amsterdam as a small, tightly-knit community with a population that never exceeded a thousand residents. The town was characterized by its canal system, reflective of Dutch urban planning seen in other colonies like Batavia.

Andrea Mosterman [21:56]:
"Daily life included a variety of occupations such as bakers, ministers, farmers, and merchants. The presence of the Dutch Reformed Church played a central role in community life, fostering education and trade."

She emphasizes the multilingual nature of the settlement, with residents speaking various European languages due to the diverse origins of the settlers, including Walloons and Africans.

Andrea Mosterman [22:56]:
"Different languages were spoken in New Amsterdam, reflecting the diverse backgrounds of its inhabitants, which included not only Dutch but also Walloons, Africans, and others."

Slavery in New Amsterdam: Origins and Impact

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the introduction and implications of slavery within the Dutch colony. Mosterman traces the arrival of the first enslaved Africans to New Amsterdam around 1627, highlighting the Dutch West India Company's pivotal role in developing a commercialized and systemic slave trade.

Andrea Mosterman [30:29]:
"Enslaved Africans became an integral part of New Amsterdam's population, with estimates suggesting they comprised about a third of the town's residents at certain points."

She debunks the myth that Dutch slavery was "kinder and gentler" compared to other colonial powers, presenting evidence of harsh conditions, public auctions, and the perpetual bondage of enslaved individuals and their descendants.

Andrea Mosterman [41:05]:
"Slavery in New Amsterdam was as oppressive and brutal as in other colonies. Enslaved people worked in chain gangs, endured public auctions, and had limited avenues to obtain freedom."

Mosterman shares poignant stories, such as that of Mike and Von Ajola, early enslaved individuals who managed to secure conditional and eventually full freedom, illustrating the complex and often contradictory nature of slavery in the colony.

Relations with Indigenous Peoples

The relationship between Dutch settlers and the indigenous Lenape people was initially characterized by trade and cooperation but deteriorated over time, leading to conflicts like Kieft's War in the 1640s. Mosterman discusses how misunderstandings over land ownership and cultural differences fueled tensions.

Andrea Mosterman [12:56]:
"Early on, relationships with indigenous communities were relatively peaceful, centered around trade. However, as the settlement expanded, conflicts erupted, leading to devastating wars and massacres."

She elaborates on the infamous purchase of Manhattan, clarifying that the commonly cited $24 deal was a gross understatement and rooted in vastly different cultural understandings of land ownership.

Andrea Mosterman [13:57]:
"The so-called sale of Manhattan for $24 was a misinterpretation of the actual transaction. It involved goods worth 60 guilders, reflecting a fundamental clash between Dutch legal concepts and indigenous views on land use."

British Takeover of New Amsterdam

In 1664, the English seized control of New Amsterdam, renaming it New York. Mosterman explains that Peter Stuyvesant, the Director General, surrendered without a fight, partly attributing the loss to the influx of weakened enslaved individuals aboard the ship Gideon.

Andrea Mosterman [39:04]:
"Stuyvesant blamed the arrival of the unsafe people from Gideon for weakening the colony's defenses, suggesting that resources were diverted to care for these enslaved individuals, thereby compromising the ability to resist the English takeover."

This event marked a significant turning point, but it wasn't the end of Dutch influence. The Dutch briefly reclaimed the colony in 1673 before permanently ceding it to the English, leaving a lasting impact on the cultural and commercial landscape of New York.

Andrea Mosterman [47:47]:
"The Dutch retained their mercantile identity even after the British takeover, influencing New York's development differently from other English colonies like Boston, which was shaped by Puritan values."

Conclusion: Enduring Dutch Legacy in New York

Don Wildman and Mosterman conclude by reflecting on the unique cultural and economic foundations laid by the Dutch in New Amsterdam, which have profoundly influenced the evolution of New York City. The episode underscores the complexity of early colonial life, characterized by economic ambition, cultural diversity, and stark realities of slavery and conflict.

Don Wildman [47:47]:
"The legacy of the Dutch mercantile enterprise is embedded in the very fabric of New York, distinguishing it from other American cities and contributing to its enduring status as a global hub."

Key Takeaways

• Economic Foundations: The Dutch West India Company's focus on trade, particularly in furs and later in enslaved Africans, established New Amsterdam as a crucial commercial hub.

• Cultural Diversity: The settlement was a melting pot of various European backgrounds and African heritage, leading to a multilingual and multicultural community.

• Slavery's Harsh Realities: Contrary to some beliefs, slavery in New Amsterdam was oppressive, with limited paths to freedom and significant brutality.

• Indigenous Relations: Initial cooperation deteriorated into violent conflicts due to cultural misunderstandings and expansionist pressures.

• British Influence: The peaceful yet strategic British takeover preserved much of the Dutch commercial legacy, shaping the future trajectory of New York City.

Notable Quotes

• Don Wildman [01:06]:
  "From its earliest days as a European settlement, New York's harbor and waterways have shaped the city, making it thrum with the energy of commerce and the hope of people arriving by ship to seek their fortunes and freedom."

• Andrea Mosterman [30:29]:
  "Enslaved Africans became an integral part of New Amsterdam's population, with estimates suggesting they comprised about a third of the town's residents at certain points."

• Andrea Mosterman [41:05]:
  "Slavery in New Amsterdam was as oppressive and brutal as in other colonies. Enslaved people worked in chain gangs, endured public auctions, and had limited avenues to obtain freedom."

• Andrea Mosterman [13:57]:
  "The so-called sale of Manhattan for $24 was a misinterpretation of the actual transaction. It involved goods worth 60 guilders, reflecting a fundamental clash between Dutch legal concepts and indigenous views on land use."

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This episode of American History Hit provides a comprehensive exploration of New York's origins, shedding light on the intricate dynamics of early colonial life, economic pursuits, and the enduring influences that continue to shape one of the world's most iconic cities.

Transcript

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[Don Wildman]

It is May 1624. A three masted Dutch ship, a carrack fresh from a transatlantic voyage, glides into a vast, sheltered harbor. The ship rises on the tide, its towering spars reaching skyward, sails billowing with promise. Aboard are the first settlers sent to establish a colony called New Netherlands. All around them stretches an overwhelming expanse of nature, deep, glistening waters, winding coves, back channels and endless, unspoiled shoreline. Forested islands are draped in grapevines, wild plums, hazelnuts, strawberries and tall grasses. The settlers gaze upon this wondrous panorama and imagine, hopefully, that these quiet waters will soon teem with fishing boats, the shores be cultivated with crops and livestock, all serving a town thriving with gardens and busy streets. Of course, little could they know how the future would eventually unfold on this island called Manhattan, that tranquil harbor one day giving rise to a skyline of steel and glass, a waterfront bristling with global commerce. What is so still in this moment will one day become the roaring cacophony known as New York. Hello all, it's Don Wildman here. Welcome to American History Hit. I wanted to begin this episode with the image of a ship making its way from Europe to the New World to remind us that from its earliest days as a European settlement, New York's harbor and waterways have shaped the city, making it thrum with the energy of commerce and the hope of people arriving by ship to seek their fortunes and freedom. That energy has in turn driven the growth and success of the United States. So it's fitting that a centerpiece of the nation's 250th birthday celebrations in 2026 will be a spectacular parade of tall ships and naval vessels through New York harbor, accompanied by a flotilla of smaller vessels. For more information about the Sailforth 250 parade, check out the link in the show notes. Today's episode is all about the very earliest days of New York, when it was not called New York at all, but rather New Amsterdam. Devoted listeners may recall that we covered this story a long time ago. New Amsterdam's transition from Dutch to English with author Russell Shorto, episode 47. In that discussion, we covered the leadership of the Dutch colony. Today. We mean to understand more about the everyday life of the Dutch in those days, how the citizens of this remote outpost in the New World would have lived. What was life like for the average.

[Historian]

Man, woman or child?

[Don Wildman]

To take us through this fundamental legacy is Andrea Mosterman, a historian who specializes in the history of Dutch early America and in particular how slavery operated for the Dutch across the Atlantic. Her first book was Spaces of A History of Slavery and Resistance in Dutch New York. Hello, Andrea. Welcome to the pod.

[Andrea Mosterman]

It's great to be here.

[Don Wildman]

So let's first refresh listeners to the very beginning of Dutch colonization in North America. 1609.

[Historian]

An English mariner irony.

[Don Wildman]

Henry Hudson, hired in Amsterdam by the Dutch East Indies Company. Why and to what end? What were they trying to accomplish?

[Andrea Mosterman]

So Henry Hudson was trying to find, as we see with many of these somewhat early explorations, a passageway to the east. And that is why he's, he's traveling to this area. He goes up the Hudson river and at some point realizes that that's not going to get him anywhere. The river gets too narrow. He returns to the Netherlands with that news, but with that, he does also talk about, you know, the things that he saw, the people that he met, the goods that he was able to obtain, and especially the furs in that particular, at that particular time were of real interest to the Dutch. And that's why we see the Dutch becoming interested in that region, but really more for trading purposes. So from 1609 onward, initially, the focus is really on obtaining access to trade there with the various indigenous peoples and again, especially looking for the various furs that they were able to get that were very much in demand in Europe at the time, kind of a two.

[Historian]

Part settlement because it was really Fort Orange, which then becomes eventually Albany, way up the Hudson, which is receiving pelts and all kinds of things from the Mohawk river. Essentially, New Amsterdam in the harbor is. Is part of that system had begun as that earlier passage to these very profitable trading posts. I think it's really important right up front. The Dutch are about making money, as opposed to these refuges of religious orientation up in Boston and so forth that's going on for the English. This is all money. That's what the Dutch do. So take me through the major events after 1609, because there's a period of time before 1624 when that colony really starts.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Yeah. So during that period, the Dutch are establishing some, some forts, some. Some trading posts, if you will, and for that trade with the various indigenous people. And so then it's not until 1621, when the Dutch West India Company is founded, that they are looking more toward actually settling the region. And that is where, you know, in 1624, they send the first families there to. To actually, like, try to. To have a settlement rather than just have these trading posts in the area. And there I will say that the Dutch West India Company was interested in making money, of course, but it also was very much considered a war machine against the Spanish that, of course, the Dutch had. Were fighting this war of independence and still were very much at war with the Spanish at the time. And so it was also trying to create this global empire, if you will, and competing with the Spanish and defeating them when possible. So they were looking to really expand their empire. And some of the literature actually saving indigenous people from Spanish Catholicism was given as one of the reasons why the Dutch West India Company was looking toward colonization in the Americas. And, and so it was diverse, but so it was really with the Dutch West India Company that we see that they're looking towards settling the areas, so expanding it beyond just trading posts.

[Historian]

Right, but right, in that nomenclature, there's a shift. I mean, the Dutch East Indies are those like Papua and New guinea and all that sort of thing, and down in the. In the Pacific, that was their orientation. And now they've created the Dutch West Indies, which we're referring to, and they're in charge of this, but they're also going to be, you know, very interested in sugar down in Caribbean and all kinds of other revenues that are being made. But up here, it's largely about the pelts. That corporation, the Dutch West Indies Company, is formed in 1621. They are focused not only on the Americas, but also West Africa. And that's going to play out very soon in this conversation, because it becomes a whole different kind of business. The ship, the New Netherlands, is dispatched in 1624 to establish this colony. Fifteen years from Hudson's first contact. You mentioned families. A whole idea of a new kind of population is coming over for New Amsterdam. How many people are on this ship?

[Andrea Mosterman]

So there's no. There's two ships. There's first the Eendracht Unity, and then there's the New Netherlands, and both of them leave in 1624. There's no clear records of exactly how many people were on board, but from what we can kind of reconstruct, it was no more than two dozen that were on the Unity, which. Or the Indrach, which was the first one, those two ships. So they both arrived kind of in the. In the spring of 1624. The initial people did not settle on Manhattan Island. So the people on board the Unity were actually settling some in what now would be Albany, that area. There were some on what the Dutch called Northern island, which is Governor's island, which, of course is right off of Manhattan. Some were sent to New Amstel, like the Delaware River. It wasn't New Amstel yet at the time, but it was by the Delaware river. And some were sent to Connecticut. So they're not yet in New Amsterdam itself, but soon after, we see that some of these families are moved or are moving to New Amsterdam. But so it's really not more than like two dozen initially, and it takes a few years before they're actually settling in the most southern point of Manhattan.

[Historian]

Sure. You mentioned the conflicts back in Europe. I mean, so much is going on with the Spanish in Northern Europe and the resistance against them. Belgium is going to come out of that. And it's all sort of driven by wars and conflicts against Catholicism, as you say, against the sort of what's viewed as fascism by those people up in the north. So in some sense, there is a religious aspect to it. Some of these people are called. Are Walloons, right? That's the term.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Yeah. Some of them were from what is today France. Some of them would be, like, from the area what's today Belgium. But one of the people that we actually know came on one of these earlier ships are Joris Jansen Rapalha and his wife Catalina Trico. And we know from a later deposition that she gave that she was born in Paris. So they were from various regions. But yes, many of them, and especially those first people, they were referred to as balloon families. They were not from. They were not, like, born and raised in the Netherlands. Even if they. They traveled to New Netherlands via the Netherlands or the Dutch Republic, the same.

[Historian]

Period, early 1600s, the English are setting things up in Jamestown and Plymouth. And we know how horrible those experiences were at first. We've talked about it a lot on this series. Why will this venture be any different for the Dutch? Have they learned from the miseries of the British?

[Andrea Mosterman]

I don't know if you could say they've learned from the misery of the British. I'm not sure even if their experiences were that different. But perhaps we just don't have the records that detail some of the misery. One of the earliest records, I believe it's from 1626. There is a letter or a testimony that details that, you know, they're having children in the colony, they're able to cultivate the land. So it sounds as if, you know, in Catalina Trico, when she gives a deposition much later on, she talks about the relationships with the indigenous people when they were. She was initially amongst the people in Albany, and then she's with her family there, settling New Amsterdam, and she talks about relationships with the indigenous people being really good initially. So I, but I. But I think that, I mean, I cannot imagine it not have been challenging to settle in that area.

[Historian]

But were they better at those relationships with those indigenous people?

[Andrea Mosterman]

I don't know. I don't think that, you know, it's hard to say, right. Because yes, there are moments where we see that there's trade and there are established relationships that seem good. But then on the other hand, there's also some really horrific wars and attacks on indigenous communities, as we see during Kiefs War, where they're horrific. So it's, you know, it kind of depends on who you ask and when you ask them. I think early on during those early settlements, if you just have a few families in those areas, that does not give the same. That, you know, that does not threaten indigenous communities in the same ways that, you know, an established town might or would.

[Historian]

Let's talk about the. Speaking of apocryphal history, the $24 required to buy the. The island of Manhattan. I mean, of course, it's not in reality that way. So what is the real story behind the acquisition of that land or. Or can we call it acquisition?

[Andrea Mosterman]

The records that we have of that is a letter that details that it was a purchase through goods worth 60 gilders at the time. So the $24 is a later on kind of like calculation of what at the time. And I believe that was from the early 20th century that calculation. So now it would have been much more right. And that probably was like goods like knives or cloths that they would have exchanged for supposedly Manhattan. Now there is of course the whole difference in how people understand land use or ownership of land between European and indigenous ways of, you know, understanding that. And there's plenty of reason to believe that the indigenous people did not actually so those would be the Manse Lenape, that they did not actually see this as like selling off their land to the Dutch, and that meaning that they could not access their land anymore or that that would now belong to Dutch or the West India, the Dutch West India Company. There's a scholar, Erin Kramer, she has this really great blog post on the Gotham Center History blog that talks about this and the different understandings of land use and owning land and what that might have meant for the indigenous people versus the Dutch in this moment. So it's very much using Dutch law to apply in this new world setting and claiming lands through that that judicial system and understanding of how it works.

[Historian]

I'll be back with more American history.

[Don Wildman]

After this short break.

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[Historian]

It's so fascinating. I mean really, we can look at these early colonizations as how mankind parted ways with more organic relationship with the land which was so much of what indigenous peoples had versus this imposed idea of human beings and the land which is now European colony. How the Europeans view this, that you possess land, that you're structured, that your society is structured based on that ownership. It's a complete fork in the road of human civilization at that point. And you can see it right here and elsewhere in all kinds of colonization. But it's amazing. It is not an amicable I mentioned before they got along better. Indeed. Actually, as you mentioned, there's a lot of wars that come along later on with those peoples. 1655, there's the Peach War with the Lenape people and then keeps war of course is going on. So let's not pretend that it was all peachy, so to speak. But let's talk about life in New Amsterdam, the daily life and what it was like. How much do we know about that as far as records kept and descriptions?

[Andrea Mosterman]

I've been thinking about this a lot. Some of it we can see from the records, but of course there's only certain records that we have. So it's always difficult to reconstruct. But we do for New Amsterdam, actually have a pretty good sense of where people were living. There's some projects that actually are mapping this very, very detailed ma and I think that really helps that you can see where did Stuyvesant live? Who of course was the well known director general or governor of New Netherlands in the 1650s and 1660s. Where was the fort? What was in the fort? Where were the taverns? We have some sense of where people would go to have a drink. We know where they had some of the gardens, where they had the commons, where the enslaved people live. So that has been very helpful. And actually the New Amsterdam History center, if your listeners are curious, they have a really great. Their website has a really great tool to see that map and some of the people who are living there. They have an exhibit going on right now as well in New York City about that. And that's really helpful in kind of seeing where do people live, who are their neighbors. One of the interesting things about that is I think that you can see how incredibly small it is. So it's at its largest, it's the part south of Wall street and it was not Manhattan has added a lot of lands in, you know, since then. So it actually was a much narrower area even than it is today. And so anywhere you go, like you could get there, I think. I mean, I. I've tried some of these routes and it would take me 10 minutes at most, maybe, maybe 15. So it's a very small area. And we see people, you know, have various, of course, occupations. There's bakers, there's, you know, a minister, there's a Dutch Reformed church, which eventually they will have build a church within the fort. There's a lot of farming. Farming, of course, is important to be able to sustain a community like that.

[Historian]

The sea was a big part of things, you know.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Yeah. So a lot of sailors and soldiers are becoming actually residents of that town. Trade was really important. So we see a lot of these people like Khowr Lokermans, he was an important merchant who was trading with, for example, the various indigenous people by the Delaware River. So there's many, many different occupations, different things that people are doing also different places where people are coming from. And so there are some descriptions of the many different languages that were spoken in New Amsterdam because of the various origins of the people who are living in that town. And so when thinking about daily life, I mean, so I think, you know, the mapping and kind of thinking about the occupations of what people were doing on a daily basis helps. The records are more showing us the court cases like those are the types of things that come out in the records a lot. So we have the deeds, we have court records. And so there you can also get a glimpse of daily life. And there's a lot of, you know, accusations, slander cases. People will say that their reputation is being tarnished because they're called this, that or the other. There's a lot of that in the records. Theft animals that are not contained and are damaging properties. So those are the types of things that we see that also are part of the daily life in this town.

[Historian]

Well, you can get a sense that there is a real community and society being built. I mean, that's the feeling that this has, that there's real intention. I suppose my confusion is it's a corporate town, it's a company town. Basically. You know, both this and Fort Orange, are they all involved in the same mission as far as building this colony for the company, or is there a broader idea of this place?

[Andrea Mosterman]

So it very much, like the colony belongs to the Dutch West India Company. Right. Like they are in charge of it. And that includes New Amsterdam. So we also see that initially any court cases would go to the council. Like any legislative issues are resolved by the council, which was the legislative body in the colony representing the Dutch West India Company. This changes over time. In the 1650s, it becomes a town. It has its own court system. And so it gained some independence in that sense. So that changes some of that. Now, whether or not that means, I don't think that the population, like, I don't get the sense that the people who actually are on the ground are there to, you know, for the mission of the Dutch West India Company, these are oftentimes people are just living their lives. They're trying to survive, they're trying to thrive. And then, of course, there are unsafe people who are forced to in that area to help contribute to building that colony. So you don't get the sense that they're there with this, yes, let's do this and let's make the Dutch West India Company great. I don't see that in the records.

[Historian]

Put me in the middle of the town there. You've already described it a little bit, but does Broadway exist yet?

[Andrea Mosterman]

It does, I guess.

[Historian]

The main street, right?

[Andrea Mosterman]

Yeah. And if I'm remembering this correctly, this was already before the Dutch settlement, an important thorough way for the indigenous people. And it would go all the way along Manhattan, as we still, of course, see today. So, yes, that exists. It's one of the broader streets. There's a canal in the city. So this is really. Or the town, I should say, in the 1640s, New Amsterdam, about a population of 500 people. It never reached more than a thousand, historians believe. So it was really small, but it had a canal. And we see the Dutch actually doing this in Batavia and in Indonesia as well, where they're trying to kind of reconstruct these types of towns that look like the Dutch town. And canals are an integral part of that. So there's a canal. There's, of course, in the area of Battery park. There's the fort with the church.

[Historian]

Is it a peaceful place? I mean, by descriptions, are there a sense. Is there a sense of threat from beyond? I mean, they built the wall for a reason there, which becomes Wall street, of course.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Well, that was really. That was during Kyiv's war, right? That there were these increasing tensions with the indigenous people in the 1640s with the monster Lenape, which really, like, at the time, even many of the colonists were blaming Kieft, Director General Willem Kieft, for increasing those tensions and really escalating the situation. But so we do see attacks on Dutch farmers. We also, as I mentioned, see horrific attacks by the Dutch on indigenous people. There's one massacre in Pavonia that's described in great detail that. That was just horrendous. So that is what the wall is for. And so, yes, there. There is that sense of fear. Fear in that sense, especially, you know, as the town is growing and these relationships with local indigenous people are becoming increasingly tense. We also see, of course, that there's always the threat of the English. And you can really see this in the. In the records, that the English are always kind of a threat as to, you know, like, looking toward this area. But. But it becomes more and more a threat. And of course, by the 1660s, they actually, you know, by 1664, they actually take over the colony. But it's long before that that we see the Dutch already kind of talking about this and knowing that the English have their eye on the colony. So there's that, but internally, there's the personal strife between people, but it really feels like a lot of it is just like people and neighbors who are in fights with each other. The.

[Historian]

The.

[Andrea Mosterman]

The most tensions are really, you know, coming from the outside. Sure.

[Historian]

You can only imagine. I mean, you're out in the middle of nowhere. You know, this is a remote idea of life for people who are used to, you know, European communities, which are very dense and very human. Suddenly, they're in this very unhuman environment where nature is really out There guiding the whole day to day life. How is it for children? Is there any record about how children were schooled and how that was organized?

[Andrea Mosterman]

This is something that I find difficult to answer. It's always difficult to find children in the records and I have not done a deep dive. But we do see that in many of these communities in general, Dutch children would get some basic education. And this of course has to do in part with the Dutch Reformed religion and needing to be able to read the Bible and access the Bible. And so I think that a lot of these children would have gotten the basic education. We also see that there's women who, you know, have that education. So it's, it's in, in that sense we see that women are, you know, also taking part in trade and business. And so it's, it's slightly different from what one might assume when thinking about these early communities. We see children like relatively early on, in some cases, you know, learning a trade. And so in some, in some cases in the form of like an indentured servitude. So I suspect that children, you know, early on would help out with their families. If it was not like working within the home or on the farm, then maybe by being rented out to a neighbor to help or to learn a trade. There's very, you know, that's, I think from the records that I've seen, most of what we can reconstruct about that. Interestingly, Catalina Trico and Juarez Johnson de Palio, whom I mentioned earlier on, they are known to have had the first born European descendant child in the Americas. Sarah. Sarah. Sarah Vapolia. Yeah, I believe it was 1625. So, so very early on. The first New Yorker.

[Historian]

There you go.

[Andrea Mosterman]

The first, the first European descendant Dutch New Yorker. But yes, that's right.

[Historian]

You're stepping into the territory that we were inevitably going to get to, which is early enslavement. At this point, the Dutch had a lot to do with pioneering a commercialized systemic trade in enslaved Africans. How much was New Amsterdam part of creating that system and how much was slavery part of life in New York? In New Amsterdam, I should say.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Yeah, so we see enslaved people in, in New Amsterdam relatively early on. Jael B. Jakobs believes that it was in 1627, and he has a, you know, convincing evidence that, that it was Indeed likely in 1627. So relatively early that we see the first enslaved Africans in New Amsterdam. New Amsterdam or New Netherlands was. It was part of these Dutch trading networks. But the role that it played changed over time. So we see for example, that when Peter Stuyvesant becomes the Director General in 1647, he is also the director general of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. And. Yeah, and so he is very much also involved with what at that moment is really kind of the foundational moment to develop Curacao into this safe trading depot. So the Dutch were involved already in the safe trade mostly to Brazil, mostly transporting people to Dutch Brazil. So for a time, for a brief period, Brazil was the northern part, like receive was part of the Dutch. The Dutch West India Company territories. And. And so they were shipping a lot of unsafe people, especially from West Central Africa. And the Dutch West India Company also at some point controlled the port of Luanda in what today is Angola. So they were very much involved with that. We see that by the 1650s, however, when Peter Stuyvesant is the Director General and he's in charge of. Of those islands, that they're really developing Curacao into like a safe trading depot where they will send and save people to predominantly, like, the objective is to make money off of the trading of people, of human beings to mostly the Spanish colonies, which are like, Curacao is right off the coast of Venezuela on a clear fall day. People have told me you can see the. The Venezuelan coast from Curacao. Right. So it's relatively close. And so those were Spanish areas. The Spanish did not have any trading posts in Africa. And so they were very much interested in. In obtaining and saved Africans from other people. And the Dutch were kind of trying to tap into that market. So that was during Stuyvesant's tenure. We see also during that period that he's increasing the number of enslaved people that are being brought to New Netherlands. So enslaved Africans are in the Netherlands as early as 1627. The population is relatively small. But if we look at the church records, we actually see that, you know, the whole population is relatively small. Right. So I think at some point, historians calculated that it might have been about a third of the population. I don't know if that is accurate. It's very difficult at times to have good numbers when it comes to this. But it definitely, when you look at some of the early church records, Dutch Reformed Church records, where some of these enslaved Africans were also marrying and baptizing their children in New Amsterdam Statue Reformed Church. They are mentioned relatively frequently that you see a person's name of Simon Congo, you know, probably coming from Congo, or Mike and Von Ajhohla. Yeah.

[Don Wildman]

I'll be back with more American history after this short break.

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[Historian]

Is it fair to say that American enslavement, or North American enslavement begins in New York? Because it had already been happening elsewhere, right? I mean, in North America, yeah.

[Andrea Mosterman]

So of course the in Virginia, it's like a decade earlier, right. With the arrival in 1619. But the Dutch were involved also in that. Right. So we do see that it may not have been New Netherland itself, but we do see that the Dutch were very much kind of involved with the beginnings of slavery in North America and in many of those areas. Please always want to be careful with North America because of course the Spanish were already involved for much longer. But if we look at the Atlantic seaboard and we do see Dutch involvement being pretty crucial in that.

[Historian]

The interesting element to me is that the Dutch at this point and even today were so respected and admired for their market abilities, their ability to commercialize things and figure out how to systematize stuff. And when they applied that to the slavery market, this is when things really took off. That's kind of what I'm talking about, is how much were they fundamental to the building of that early marketplace and that mentality that this was a way to make a lot of money? They were.

[Andrea Mosterman]

So yes, and this is actually one of the things that I'm working on right now to really establish the importance of the Dutch in that. But yes, we see that the Dutch are, with the development of Curacao, one of the first People to really turn slave trading itself. Not the first people, but the first kind of, like, country company that. That really is trying to make money off of safe trading in and of itself. And that is definitely also influencing New Netherlands. And we see that during Stuyvesant's tenure, he's regularly asking Matthias Beck, who is in Curacao, in charge there, for more enslaved people for New Amsterdam and New Netherlands. And just one thing to note, like, when we think about daily live in Amsterdam, one of the things that I didn't mention is that of course, there were also enslaved people, very much like a part of that town. So if you walk down the streets of New Amsterdam, you would have also encountered enslaved Africans. And some of the records refer to them working in a chain gang. Right. And the chain gang, actually, in some cases, criminals would be sentenced to work alongside the company slaves in the chain gang. And so those would. Would also be things you'd see in New Amsterdam. And that would make it markedly different from what you would see in Amsterdam at the time. Right. Where there was a black population, but slavery was supposedly not allowed. And so we don't see, like in safe people, there would be a safe, you know, slave auctions. We. We know that there's an auction in the spring of. I believe it was 1664. Yeah, May 1664. We know there's an auction likely taking part in place in front of the courthouse where unsafe people, including a woman with a child, are being sold to the various people who want to purchase them. So that was also a part of that town and daily life in that town.

[Historian]

The English take control of New Amsterdam in 1664. Little known detail is that Peter Stuyvesant, Director General of New Amsterdam, blames a slave ship for his having to surrender to the English. Explain that story. Where does that come from?

[Andrea Mosterman]

So this is actually part of a longer history of Peter Stuyvesant complaining that the unsafe people that are transported from Curacao to New Amsterdam are older, weaker. So he's. He's oftentimes asking for more unsafe people in the colony. And he blames Matthias Beck and Curacao actually for sending the stronger and healthier enslaved people to the Spanish and sending him the older and the sick people. So in the case of the Gideon, which survives just a few weeks before the English take over the colony, it arrives in new Amsterdam with 290 unsafe men and women still alive on board that ship. And they at that point had come from Curacao. When they arrive, they. It's. It's you know, within weeks that the English are arriving in the harbor and taking over the colony. And later on, Stuyvesant says that he, in part, could not protect the colony because these people that arrived on the Gideon were so weak that the provisions that he would have needed for his troops went to these enslaved people to feed them. And that that is why he was not capable in that moment to defend the colony as he perhaps would have done otherwise. James Baldwin mentions this later on and talks about it as the marvelous foreshadowing of the scapegoat role. I'm paraphrasing. I'm close to how he says it, but like the scapegoat rule of. That the black would play in American life, it's something along those lines. And it does stand out, as you know, even in that moment. It's blamed on the unsafe people who have no role in all of this. Right. Like they are taken there by force that he lost the colony.

[Historian]

It's often said that Dutch enslavement was somehow, I don't know, kinder and gentler than other. It wasn't. It was just as harsh as anyone else.

[Andrea Mosterman]

It was. And, you know, it's really interesting because there's a lot of attention oftentimes given to half freedom, which is this. So some of the unsaved people that we see actually going to the Dutch Reformed Church, having their children baptized there, some of the earliest people in the colony, some of them were able to obtain half freedom, as it's sometimes referred to, where they would get land. So we actually see that a lot of these formerly unsafe people got land in the area that's today, like NYU area, Washington Square Park. Right. Is that it? And. But they still would need to contribute to the company. They still would have to pay dues. They would have to help the company when it needed them. Their children would remain in bondage. So it wasn't a full freedom. But oftentimes their cases have been used to say, well, see, slavery was really not that hard in. Or not. Not that. That terrible in New Amsterdam, because here are these people who are able to obtain like this conditional freedom. They get land, they. They live every sea that, you know, decades later, those families are still in the area. But, you know, there's another side to that story, as I mentioned, where unsafe people are working in chain gangs and. And are sold at public auction in the town. And so it. It's a much more complex history. And yes, absolutely does not mean that slavery was more benign in the Dutch.

[Historian]

Colony of all your studies in these people, are there any favorites that you have, some individuals you can tell us about?

[Andrea Mosterman]

Absolutely. And you know, as somebody who studies slavery, it's very difficult for me not to choose one of the unsafe people who, regardless of the circumstances under which they were brought to New Amsterdam, were able to. To make a home for themselves there. And one of the people that comes to mind is Mike and Von Ajola, who, according to later records, was brought there in 1628. So really one of the very first people, an enslaved woman who perhaps came from Angola, because that was her last name, she married in the town. She was able to get conditional freedom in the 1660s, and eventually in 1663, she was able to get full freedom. The conditional freedom that she obtained, by the way, was that she and two other women was able to become free as long as they would return to Peter Stuyvesant's house to clean that every week. I think it was so that, you know, under that condition they were able to obtain their freedom. She was among the many people who lived in that area by NYU believe she lived on the corner with her husband of Houston street and Bowery. And they raised a child who was a child of half free people who, as I mentioned earlier, was still enslaved or in some form of bondage. They were able to get freedom for that child. So she's just one of these people that I think really tells the story of New Amsterdam in the light of slavery and the ways in which enslaved people in that area were able to make the best out of. Yeah, persevere and really make the best out of these. These horrific circumstances under which they came there. She attended the Dutch Reformed Church, so she was very much a part of that community, but in a very different way.

[Historian]

So we've intentionally focused this conversation on life in New Amsterdam, but we have to bring this to a close. With the Dutch capitulation to the British. September 8, 1664. This is still a mysterious moment for a lot of listeners, for me as well. Can you explain? So now we've talked about how hard it was to create this community, how much went into building it. People coming over, building lives. Forty years after developing New Netherlands, the Dutch give it up without a fight. Explain that moment and how this would have affected the everyday people.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Yeah, so I think that Russell Shorto does a really good job of talking about this in his new book, Taking Manhattan, because he really talks about the background of the various players that play an important role in this. But I think overall this moment has not received the attention from historians as it should. One of the things that I think stands out is that for these Dutch, these people, and we say Dutch people, but many of them were not Dutch. Right. As we talked about, like, there were balloons, there were Africans, there were people from various parts of Europe and beyond. And for many of those people, they, I think, in that moment feared more like a violent attack by the English than being taken over. And they negotiated that they were able to, you know, like, that they had certain rights. And so I think that that, in that moment was enough for the population. And as Shorto talks about, like, they are the ones who are really, like, trying to convince Styros to give in. But I don't want to say that this means the Dutch gave up on the colony or that they were not sad about it, if you will, because we actually see that they take back New Amsterdam, right. In New Netherlands, in 1673. That's a moment that really needs a lot more attention from historians, because it's oftentimes forgotten. But there is this period where they. Where they take the area back. And there are other instances where we see. And I was just recently in the archives really, looking into this period, and we see people. I mean, so they have to pledge allegiances. Right. There's people who might refuse it or might try to get out of it. There's in. In Brooklyn, at some point, an attack on. On an image of the king in the late 17th century. So, you know, when the Dutch tried to take the colony back in 1673, we. We see that a lot of the residents are actually very excited about that and are helping the soldiers to take over the colony and actually guiding them on how to do this in that moment, because they want to go back to Dutch rule. So I think that it's not as if 1664 and the English take over and that's the end of it, and everybody is okay with that. I think that there's a lot of. Kind of more subtle resistance. Yeah. And more to it. And again, something that I think deserves more attention. And hopefully, you know, in a couple of years or decades, we'll be able to have a better picture of really what's going on on the ground. But from the things I've seen, there's a lot more to it. And it's fascinating.

[Historian]

I'm in the middle of that book, Taking Manhattan right now. It's really interesting. I think it's fascinating. And we're going to wrap this up now, but the sense that the Dutch remain and all of what they have been Building in terms of a mercantile colony remains as well. The English are only too happy to receive taxes. You know, it works out for everybody in the end, sort of, you know, because the estates remain. All those Dutch people still have their homes. All that continues to process as this unique place. And as. As short of points out, this very directly contributes to a very unique quality to New York as opposed to other places. Just like Boston comes from the Puritans, this New York really comes from the mercantile enterprise of the Dutch. And it resonates throughout all the decades to come. It's really fascinating. I mean, that's oversimplifying it, looking backwards, but it's really true.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Yeah. I mean, and it shows also that going back to your earlier question, what the people who lived there were concerned about was more their own livelihood. Right. Than the Dutch West India Company. And I think that that's something we see in that moment, too, that they were okay with that change as long as it did not affect their own livelihood and lives too much. Disturbed that too much.

[Historian]

They had already created a kind of different identity. It's tempting to think of it anyway, you know, far, far away across the ocean, they were now creating their own culture, which, you know, in some ways becomes America, becomes the United States eventually. Andreas C. Mosterman is an associate professor of Atlantic history and Joseph Tregel professor in Early American History at the University of New Orleans. Osterman's articles have appeared in the Journal of African History, Early American Studies, and elsewhere. Her book, Spaces of A History of Slavery and Resistance in Dutch New York has been the basis for so much of our talk today, and I hope you'll find it yourselves. Thank you so much, Andrea. Nice to meet you. Thanks for talking with us.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Don Wildman]

Hey, thanks for listening to American History hit.

[Historian]

You know, every week we release new.

[Don Wildman]

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[Historian]

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[Don Wildman]

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[Andrea Mosterman]

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[Andrea Mosterman]

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[Andrea Mosterman]

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[Historian]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that would recommend.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now.

[Historian]

And I'm still talking to all kinds.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Of people in my garage every week.

[Historian]

Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande.

[Ryan Seacrest]

She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know, Daddy has issues.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Are you afraid of? Well, I don't. I think about it all the time. How are we here already?

[Historian]

Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app. Or get more WTF with a WTF plus subscription. Just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[Andrea Mosterman]

Acast.com.