The Truth about Billy the Kid

Summary

American History Hit – "The Truth about Billy the Kid"

Host: Don Wildman
Guest: George R. Matthews (Historian, Author of Billy the Kid: The Life behind the Legend)
Release Date: July 13, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Don Wildman sits down with historian and author George R. Matthews to delve into the life—and myths—of infamous outlaw Billy the Kid. Drawing from new research and original sources, Matthews presents a nuanced portrait of Billy as a product of both his upbringing and the legends spun around him, highlighting the distinction between fact and popular fiction. If you've ever wondered who Billy the Kid really was, what drove his choices, and how his legend grew, this episode offers a comprehensive and engaging perspective.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mythology of Billy the Kid

• Research Approach: Matthews explains his methodology for cutting through the myths by consulting secondary accounts, then uncovering original sources related to Billy's family, particularly Irish immigration, dime novels, and school records ([03:50]).
  • Notable quote:

    “Could I solve all the Billy the Kid mythologies? Could I strip away those layers of myth? …We can now safely say that we can eliminate almost all of the mythologies around Billy the Kid. We now have a complete, authentic picture.” — George R. Matthews ([05:20])

• Media’s Role: The mythologizing began during Billy’s lifetime through sensational newspaper articles and was cemented by Pat Garrett’s 1882 book, then later popularized further by Walter Noble Burns’s 1925 book and numerous films ([06:24], [07:08]).
  • Notable quote:

    “Pat Garrett’s book, The Authentic Life, written by a ghostwriter… that creates many of the myths, almost all. But then in 1925… even more myths about Billy the Kid. Then of course, the movies took off from that book.” — George R. Matthews ([07:08])

2. Billy’s Early Life and Family

• Origins and Family: Billy (born Henry McCarty) was the son of Irish immigrant Catherine McCarty, who arrived in the US in 1846. She worked as a domestic servant and later a laundress in Indianapolis before moving to Wichita, Kansas ([08:06]).
  • Documented Childhood:

    “He gives birth out of wedlock to the boy born Henry McCarty, who becomes Billy the Kid… she gives birth again to his almost certainly half brother, Joseph McCarty.” — George R. Matthews ([10:23])

• Education: Billy was literate, likely attending public school in Indianapolis from age 6 to 10, given strong circumstantial evidence ([12:01]).
  • Notable Quote:

    “Billy could read and write. He was in a public school system district from the age of 6 to 10. And it’s pretty certain, pretty conclusive that that’s where he would have learned.” — George R. Matthews ([12:43])

3. Personality and Early Troubles

• Character: Matthews describes Billy as “charming, gregarious, certainly a ladies’ man… well-liked by everyone, by all accounts, except for the guys he testified against in the Santa Fe Room. He liked to sing and dance. Great sense of humor. He was certainly an extrovert and a charmer to say the least.” ([13:43])
• Bullying and Violence: Billy was bullied for his small size, which contributed to his first killing in Arizona ([14:05]).

4. The Many Names and Their Origins

• Identity Changes: Billy’s names evolved with his circumstances:
  • Born Henry McCarty.
  • Became Henry Antrim after his mother married William Antrim.
  • Finally, adopted the alias William H. Bonney—likely inspired by a dime novel (Banditti of the Prairies by Edward Bonney) and his stepfather’s name ([16:45], [19:08]).
  • “He was William H. Bonney or ‘The Kid’; it wasn’t until December 1880 that a newspaper coined the name ‘Billy the Kid’.” ([19:08])
  • Notable Quote:

    "It is likely that Billy the Kid took the name Bonney from that dime novel. And of course, William would have been adopted from his stepfather… He was not Billy the Kid at this time. He was William H. Bonney or The Kid." — George R. Matthews ([20:28])

5. The First Killing: Fact vs Legend

• Francis ‘Windy’ Cahill (August 1877):
  • Billy’s first killing was in self-defense, shot after being physically attacked by Cahill during a saloon fight ([21:05]).
  • Quote:

    "He was bullied from the very beginning... Billy has a pistol in his pocket, doesn’t have a holster... grabs the pistol and shoots Windy Cahill in the stomach." — George R. Matthews ([21:15])

6. The Lincoln County War – Billy’s Central Role

• Backdrop: Lincoln County was dominated by the “Santa Fe Ring’s” monopoly in cattle and goods. Billy was employed by rival John Henry Tunstall.
• Chronology:
  • Tunstall establishes a competing store; Santa Fe Ring reacts violently to threats to their monopoly.
  • Tunstall is murdered, sparking the Lincoln County War (February 18, 1878).
  • Billy and others were officially deputized to chase the killers, but violence escalates ([22:54], [27:22]).
  • Quote:

    “The Lincoln County War begins with the killing of John Henry Tunstall. After he’s killed, Alexander McSween, his partner, has Dick Brewer commissioned as constable… Dick Brewer and the other deputies, including Billy the Kid, become lawmen officially.” — George R. Matthews ([27:22])

• Violence and Reputation:
  • Billy participated in assassinations and shootouts, but Matthews clarifies that the legendary body count (21 men) is grossly exaggerated ([28:55]).
  • Notable Quote:

    “The myth, of course, that he killed 21 men isn’t even close. He kills… probably between four and nine. You’re saying more like four and seven?” — Don Wildman and George R. Matthews ([29:36-29:44])

7. Life as a Thief and Outlaw

• Crimes:
  • “He decided to be a horse and cattle thief. That is correct.” — George R. Matthews ([29:56])
• Sheriff Brady Incident:
  • Brady and Deputy Hindam are ambushed—done to protect ally McSween, not merely for vengeance ([30:23]).

8. The Famous Jail Escape

• Escape from Lincoln County Jail (April 28, 1881):
  • Billy, shackled but held only in a courthouse room, gets a gun concealed in the outhouse by an accomplice, kills two guards, and escapes ([31:59]).
  • Quote:

    “He is in handcuffs and leg irons... the story is that one of his friends... has a young boy place a gun in the outhouse... Billy asks to go, gets the gun, kills the deputy and escapes.” — George R. Matthews ([32:34])

9. The End: Pat Garrett and Billy’s Death

• The Pursuit:
  • Pat Garrett, now a Deputy U.S. Marshal, tracks Billy down three months later at Fort Sumner ([36:00]).
  • The fatal encounter is largely accidental—Billy, hungry and carrying a butcher knife, backs into Pete Maxwell’s bedroom, where Garrett shoots him ([36:00], [38:27]).
  • Quote:

    “Pat Garrett... is in Maxwell’s bedroom asking Maxwell... where is Billy the Kid?... at that time, a figure backs into Pete Maxwell’s bedroom… Pat Garrett takes out his pistol, fires two shots. The first one hits Billy the Kid a little above the heart. He dies instantaneously.” — George R. Matthews ([36:00-38:06])

10. The Enduring Legend and Myths of Survival

• Fake Identities & Imposters:
  • Brushy Bill and Jim Miller both claimed to be Billy, but records and evidence show neither was ([40:59]).
• Hollywood & Reimagining:
  • The legend continues, shifting via pop culture and movies like Young Guns ([42:04], [42:12]).
  • Quote:

    “It is a story that’s been told through books and movies and TV shows... it’s amazing how versatile this story really has become.” — Don Wildman ([41:41])

11. Final Takeaways

• Matthews’ Conclusion:

  “I think the missing pieces to the puzzle are now known and we can pretty much, as I said earlier, strip away the layers of mythology that shroud Billy the Kid. What we really need to have done now, there really needs to be a film, a documentary first about Billy the Kid’s true story. It’s pretty well documented at this point.” — George R. Matthews ([43:00])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Billy could read and write. He was in a public school system district from the age of 6 to 10. And it’s pretty certain, pretty conclusive that that’s where he would have learned.”
  — George R. Matthews ([12:43])
• “He was certainly an extrovert and a charmer to say the least.”
  — George R. Matthews ([13:43])
• “The myth, of course, that he killed 21 men isn’t even close... more like four and seven?”
  — Don Wildman and George R. Matthews ([29:36-29:44])
• “He was not Billy the Kid at this time. He was William H. Bonney or The Kid. It wasn’t until December of 1880 that a newspaper in New Mexico gave William H. Bonney the moniker Billy the Kid. He did not adopt the name. They gave it to him.”
  — George R. Matthews ([20:28])
• “Pat Garrett… is in Maxwell’s bedroom… at that time, a figure backs into… Pat Garrett takes out his pistol, fires two shots… He dies instantaneously.”
  — George R. Matthews ([36:00-38:06])
• “We can now safely say that we can eliminate almost all of the mythologies around Billy the Kid. We now have a complete, authentic picture.”
  — George R. Matthews ([05:20])

---

Key Timestamps

• [03:50] — Matthews on his research sources and approach to separating myth from fact
• [06:24] — Newspapers and Pat Garrett’s book fueling the legend
• [08:06 – 12:01] — Catherine McCarty’s immigration, Billy’s birth, and early education
• [13:43] — Billy’s personality and charm
• [19:08] — How “Billy the Kid” got his name
• [21:05] — First killing: the Windy Cahill incident
• [22:54] — Introduction of Lincoln County War and Billy’s role
• [27:22] — Chronology and motivations of the Lincoln County War
• [31:59] — The famous Lincoln jail escape
• [36:00] — Pat Garrett’s pursuit and Billy’s death at Fort Sumner
• [40:59] — Myths about Billy’s survival
• [43:00] — Matthews on finally “solving” the Billy the Kid story

---

Summary

This episode offers a rich, evidence-based account of Billy the Kid, balancing engaging storytelling with carefully researched corrections to long-circulated myths. Matthews’ insights reveal a young man shaped as much by tough circumstances as by media legend, drawing a clear line between the historical Billy and the fictionalized American icon. If you want to understand the reality—and appeal—behind the legend, this episode is essential listening.

---

Transcript

[Don Wildman]

Want to explore even more history? Sign up to History Hit, where you will discover history from around the world. From the American Revolution to prehistoric Scotland, there is plenty to discover. With your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com subscribe to bring the Past Alive

[LEDN Advertiser]

when opportunity requires capital, be ready. LEDEN's Bitcoin backed loans give you liquidity across time zones 24 7. When timing matters, access to capital is critical. LEDN gives you liquidity so you can move quickly without disrupting your bitcoin position. And LEDN has funded over $11 billion in loans since 2018 with a perfect track record of protecting client assets. Get a Leadn Bitcoin backed loan today. Visit ledn IO.

[BetterHelp Advertiser]

A better help ad after my session and talking to my therapist and really feeling seen and heard for the first time, I just felt like a weight just was lifted off of my shoulders and I felt like it was a good match. From the first time we talked, I could tell people from lived experience that they should try therapy. I could really be myself again and I have this continued support with better help. Wherever you are, that's where Better Help begins. Visit betterhelp.comrandompodcast to get started.

[AllTrails Advertiser]

There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature, discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with alltrails. Download the free app today and find your Outside.

[Don Wildman]

Lincoln County Jail in the New Mexico Territory, April 28, 1881. The prisoner swats a fly from his sweating forehead, glancing to the door. Slightly built and bare laid in his 20s, this man has been chained and shackled here on the second floor of the jail for two weeks. By rights, it should be his final home before the news. But while he's been waiting, he's been watching for an opportunity. One that's about to arrive. At 5pm each day, he is brought his plate of food. At the same time, one of his two guards escorts the other prisoners in the jail across the street for their nightly victuals. But this evening will go differently. At 5, the guard will exit the building as usual, but he won't return. This evening, he and his fellow guard will have been shot dead. And the killer who did the shooting? Our prisoner. He'll be riding a stolen horse into the sunset, still alive and still known by his now famous name, Billy the Kid. George R. Matthews is an historian and author of Billy the Kid the Life behind the Legend, published Just last year. George Matthews, sir. Glad to meet you.

[George R. Matthews]

Thank you. Nice to be here.

[Don Wildman]

So much has been written about Billy the Kid. I did one special myself on television about it. And it is a world so. So many contradictory statements, so much folklore you have dived in. What kind of sources were you using for this research? Where do you begin, and why is Billy the Kid so mythologized?

[George R. Matthews]

Well, you begin by reading all the secondary sources that relate and tell you about all the mythology, and then you delve into all the original sources. I decided that once I had done that, that could I solve all the Billy and McKidd mythologies, could I strip away those layers of myth? And so I decided I would do some original research to see if I could do that. And the first area I went into was the history of Irish immigration, because Billy's mother was an Irish immigrant. And that revealed a great deal of information about her coming to the United States, her occupations, her going to Indiana, and Billy's childhood, which is new information that he was born in New York City, for example. And then the other area I decided to delve into was history of Dime Novels, because we know Billy was a reader of dime novels. And lo and behold, I found some original information that explains why he adopted the alias William H. Bonney, for example. And then the third area was knowing that his mother was in Indiana and knowing that Billy was literate to do research in the history of Indianapolis was. And in particular, public education in Indianapolis. And again, I found out that Billy the Kid, at six years old, was living in Indianapolis with his mother and was in the first school district of Indianapolis. And they had a fabulous public school system in Indianapolis by the middle 1860s. That's where Billy was educated. And so those three things, and then going back to the original documents during the Lincoln County War and comparing those, we can now safely say that we can eliminate almost all of the mythologies around Billy the Kid. We now have a complete, authentic picture. Wow.

[Don Wildman]

And yet I know there will be tons of people arguing with you online, as they do with everything, because the Billy the Kid story has been dissected upside down. When did the storytelling begin?

[George R. Matthews]

Billy was actually made a outlaw celebrity during his lifetime by the newspapers, and it started with New Mexico newspapers. But in January and March of 1881, while he sat in jail after his capture by Pat Garrett, two articles appeared in the Illustrated Police News, one in March with a woodcut of the famous Billy the Kid tintype photo, which is the only one that exists. Of course, the mythology begins during his lifetime.

[Don Wildman]

And it's really Pat Garrett that starts it. I mean, he publishes the Authentic Life of Billy the kid in 1882, right?

[George R. Matthews]

Yes. Pat Garrett's book, the Authentic Life, written by a ghostwriter, by the way, was published in 1882, and that creates many of the myths, almost all. But then in 1925, there was another book published by Walter Noble Burns, and that created even more myths about Billy the Kid. And then, of course, the movies took off from that book and created even more myths about Billy the Kid.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, it's a story that becomes its own story. And that's a fascinating kind of example of the mythologizing of the American west in general. Billy the Kid is a celebrity story in that firmament. So let's get down to some biographical details to start with this. Why is Billy the Kid, whose name we will now discuss in the American west, in the first place, where does he come from?

[George R. Matthews]

Well, his mother's name was Catherine McCarty. She was an Irish immigrant, and we now know that she immigrated to the United States in 1846. She came across on an Irish immigrant ship. Every passenger was an Irish immigrant man or woman. They were all immigrating from Ireland to the United states. She was 17 years old in 1846, making her birth year 1829. And the reason we know this is Billy the Kid's mother is that when she died in 1874, she was 45 years old. And we know that to be a fact. So there's only one Catherine McCarty who immigrated from Ireland, who was born in 1829, and that was Catherine McCarty in 1846. So she immigrated that year. And that year, the New York Irish Immigration Society was warning Irish immigrants not to settle in New York City or any other east coast city because of disease, poor wages, discrimination. They were encouraged to in 1846 to go by way of the Erie Canal to the interior cities, what were then the interior cities of Cleveland, Indianapolis or Chicago. She chose Indianapolis. She got to Indianapolis, and every woman on that Irish immigrant ship was coming to the United States to be a domestic servant. She was a domestic servant in Indianapolis from 1846 to until 1870. She was able to save a great deal of money, obviously, as she was a living laundress is what she was, and had no living expenses to speak of. So in 1870, a new laundry technology came to Indianapolis, making Irish domestic laundresses obsolete. So she decided to move to the new frontier town of Wichita, Kansas, and took her two sons, who she had that time with her. But Prior to that, in 1860, while she's a domestic servant in Indianapolis, she gives birth out of wedlock to the boy born Henry McCarty, who becomes Billy the Kid. Three years later, she gives birth again to his almost certainly half brother, Joseph McCarty. They go in 1870 to Wichita, Kansas. She opens her own laundry business in Wichita, and that was reported in the Wichita newspaper. And with the money she has saved over the years, she buys 160 acres, a quarter section of public land. And her partner, who goes with her by the name of William Antrim, who will later marry Catherine, builds her a house for her and her two sons on the outskirts of Wichita.

[Don Wildman]

George, do we have any idea of who his father was?

[George R. Matthews]

We have no idea. I mean we never will know. And by the way, there are birth records were not kept in Indiana until 1882. So there's no record of Billy's birth in 1860.

[Don Wildman]

Gotcha. What do we know about his childhood in Wichita and beyond? Or actually goes back to Indiana, doesn't it?

[George R. Matthews]

Yes, again, in 1866, he's living in Indiana. He's six years old and he's living with his mother and his younger brother in the Indianapolis school district that he lives just up the street from. And he attends school in Indianapolis, first four grades from 1866 until 1870. We even know the name of his first and second grade teachers. But I've gotten a lot of argument from people saying unless you have a class roster that shows his name, you can't say that he was attended school in Indianapolis. Which of course is kind of silly because the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong. Billy could read and write. He was in a public school system district from the age of 6 to 10. And it's pretty certain, pretty conclusive that that's where he would have learned to

[Don Wildman]

read and write and what he would have been reading. I mean, the time that Henry McCarty is born in this world we're talking about 1859 or 60, the storytelling of the American west has really begun. I mean this is. The media is up and running. Of course the Civil War will be his earliest part of his life. But after that the stories are becoming published, the dime stores, the newspapers, all of this idea of imposing this idea on the west has become a well made thing. And certainly that was happening in Indiana. What do we know about his personality as a kid? He was rather charming, wasn't he?

[George R. Matthews]

He was, he was charming, he was gregarious, he was certainly a ladies man. He was well liked by everyone, by all accounts, except for the guys he testified against in the Santa Fe Room. He liked to sing and dance. Great sense of humor. Yeah, he was. He was certainly an extrovert and a charmer to say the least.

[Don Wildman]

But he was bullied for being a small guy, right?

[George R. Matthews]

Yes. That led to his first killing, of course. In Arizona. Right.

[Don Wildman]

So we have this idea, this kid named Henry McCarty who will become the guy we're talking about. Billy the Kid. A whole transformation that will take place right after this break.

[LEDN Advertiser]

When opportunity requires capital. Be ready. LEDEN's Bitcoin backed loans give you liquidity across time zones 24, 7. When timing matters, access to capital is critical. LEDN gives you liquidity so you can move quickly without disrupting your Bitcoin position. And LEDN has funded over $11 billion in loans since 2018 with a perfect track record of protecting client assets. Get a LEDN Bitcoin backed loan today Visit LEDN IO a Better Help Ad

[BetterHelp Advertiser]

after my session and talking to my therapist and really feeling seen and heard for the first time, I just felt like a weight just was lifted off of my shoulders and I felt like it was a good match. From the first time we talked, I could tell people from lived experience that they should try therapy. I could really be myself again and I have this continued support with better help. Wherever you are, that's where BetterHelp begins. Visit betterhelp.comrandompodcast to get started.

[AllTrails Advertiser]

Ready to experience something new? Alltrails helps you find your next hike. Whether you're looking for something nearby or planning a trip. Read reviews from real people like you to choose your trail and know what to expect. You can also download the map in case service gets spotty. Plan and experience your next hike with Alltrails, the app for exploring the outdoors. Download it today and find your outside.

This season, everyone deserves a little more and Mazda delivers with the extended driving range of the CX50 Hybrid so you can spend the more time together. Standard all wheel drive in every Mazda CUV including the CX5 and room to bring everyone with three row seating in the CX90. Find more reasons to celebrate the season at the Mazda More to move you sales event.

[Don Wildman]

Every Mazda CUV offers you an elevated driving experience and refined performance. Discover it at your local Mazda dealer today. Speaking with George R. Matthews, author of Billy the Kid the Life behind the Legend, George when did Henry McCarty eventually become William Bonney? Or was that the name at all?

[George R. Matthews]

Yes, and that was the name. But he was born Henry McCarty and in 1875 he was living in silver city, New Mexico, and. And his mother had married William Antrim on March 1, 1873, in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And then they came to Silver city. And in 1875, Billy was arrested in Silver city for as an accessory to a robbery, put in jail. He escaped from Silver city, went to Arizona to be with his stepfather, William Antrim. And there in Arizona, he adopted the name from Henry mcquarty to Henry Antrim. Taking his stepfather's name.

[Don Wildman]

We've skipped one thing that's important. They moved to the southwest because of his mom. She had a case of tuberculosis. Right. And this was for the climate reasons and the advantages of that. That's how he ends up in the southwest, in New Mexico. But I'm curious how this kid who's been well educated, who's got a family and is reading books, how does he choose a life? I mean, why juvenile delinquency? Why does he choose this life of crime?

[George R. Matthews]

Well, he begins with that accessory to a robbery. So a very mild thing. He had a tendency to be a thief. He had stolen some butter in Silver city earlier in 1875, and was just given a warning by the sheriff. And then he was found to be an accessory to hiding the goods from a robbery and put in jail for that. And his delinquency was pretty mild. I mean, it wasn't any. Any big deal. If he had stayed in Silver City, he probably would have been exonerated as an accessory to a robbery and would have been fine. But he chose to escape and go to Arizona where, again, he took that name, Henry Antrim.

[Don Wildman]

And does this identity. Is it part of the mythology that this comes from dime novels? I mean, he was such a reader and such a fan of this kind of storytelling in the American west. Does he name himself Billy the kid as a result of that? Kind of. Is he a fan of that sort of novel?

[George R. Matthews]

When he comes back to New Mexico, from Arizona to Lincoln county in the fall of 1877, he is known as Henry Antrim or Kit Antrim. And at that time, he has killed his first man. So he adopts the alias in the fall of 1877 in Lincoln county as William h. Bonney. Okay? Now, the question is, why did he become William h. Bonney? And he probably adopts an alias because he's killed a man in Arizona and wants to adopt another identity. Plus, he had also ridden with the Jesse Evans gang for a short time. And once he's hired in New Mexico, Lincoln county with John Tunstall, John Henry Tunstall. He may have wanted to adopt an alias. For that reason. He was a reader of dime novels. And one of the best selling dime novels of the day, Called banditti of the prairies, Was written by one Edward bonney. And it is likely his mother's maiden name was not Bonnie. By the way, it's likely that Billy the kid took the name Bonnie from that dime novel. And of course, William would have been adopted from his stepfather, who was William Antrim. And he kept the h as his middle initial for Henry. So he was not Billy the kid at this time. He was William h. Bonney or the kid. Simply the kid. It wasn't until December of 1880 that a newspaper in new Mexico gave William h. Bonney the moniker Billy the kid. He did not adopt the name. They gave it to him.

[Don Wildman]

George, this first murder of Francis Windy Cahill, August 1877. He was a blacksmith, Shot following a dispute. Was this in self defense, this crime?

[George R. Matthews]

Yes, it was in self defense. What happened was they got into a row. Well, first of all, when Billy first arrived in Arizona at fort Grant, he was bullied from the very beginning. And he arrived there in 1876, early 1876. And he had a career there. He was there about 18 months. And then in August of 1877, Wendy Cahill continued his bullying. And they were in a. In a saloon. And we have an eyewitness account of what happened. Wendy Cahill was giving a hard time, Called him a pimp, et cetera. Billy called him a son of a bitch. Wendy Cahill, he was short, but he was stocky. And he was about 33 years old. Billy at this time, August 1877, is 17. So you got an older adult. And Billy a slight of sleight of build to begin with. And so the blacksmith throws him on the floor, starts slapping him. Billy has a pistol in his pocket, doesn't have a holster, has it in his pocket, gets free, gets his hand free, Grabs the pistol and shoots Wendy cahill in the stomach.

[Don Wildman]

So this happens in arizona. He returns to new Mexico and becomes involved in what is called the lincoln county war. And this is really the centerpiece of this, isn't it? Where is Lincoln county and what was the war?

[George R. Matthews]

Lincoln county at that time encompassed the entire southeast corner of new mexico. It was the largest county in new Mexico and was probably almost a quarter of the state. I mean, it was huge. But the lincoln county war began in 1876 when an Englishman came to lincoln county and started to a mercantile. Mercantile business in the town of Lincoln. The santa fe ring was the dominant mercantile power. In New Mexico, they owned the judiciary, the political system. They had a monopoly on the mercantile system. So John Henry Tunstall, the Englishman, comes to Lincoln and he starts another store. And the local population loves it because they are being overcharged by the Santa Fe Ring. And at this time it's led by James Dolan, who was a prominent figure later, of course, in Billy Story. And so they have this mercantile war and they go back and forth. And John Henry Tunstall has his father's, his rich father support, financial support from London, England, so he's able to compete. And actually he becomes the dominant mercantile businessman in Lincoln County. And as a result, the Santa Fe Ring has John Henry Tunstall brutally murdered. And that begins the actual fighting. Lincoln County War. And that happened on February 18, 1878.

[Don Wildman]

On what side of this conflict was Billy the Kid, who was he loyal to?

[George R. Matthews]

He was employed by John Henry Tunstall. So he fought against the Santa Fe Ring and for John Henry Tunstill.

[Don Wildman]

What's the conflict about?

[George R. Matthews]

The conflict is over a monopoly business. The Santa Fe Ring wants to continue their monopoly on the cattle trade, supplying cattle to the Army. They want to continue their monopoly operating the store in Lincoln. And John Henry Tunstall buys land and purchases cattle to put on his ranch to counter the Santa Fe Rings cattle operation. And so they're in direct conflict. It's a mercantile war. And they're in conflict with the two stores in Lincoln. And people are not going to the Santa Fe Ring store. They're going to John Henry Tunstall store. And then John Henry Tunstall is a partner with Alex McSween, an attorney in Lincoln. And Alex McSween has worked for the Santa Fe Ring before. Tunstall arrives, but has a falling out with the Santa Fe Ring when he is representing one of the original Santa Fe Ring members life insurance policies. And he cheats the Santa Fe Ring out of that life insurance money.

[Don Wildman]

So the basics are that James Dolan and the county sheriff and the Jesse Evans gang, that ground is against the Tunstall McSween faction. And then in between, this is what's called the Lincoln county regulators. We haven't mentioned this before. A posse of armed men and the town constable Brewer with the US Marshal Winemann. All of this is this kind of classic western faction thing that's happening over the market that you're talking about, this dry goods and cattle market that's being argued over just making money. It all culminates in violence in what's called the Lincoln County War, which is Essentially a five day gunfight, right?

[George R. Matthews]

A little bit more than that. What happens is because of this conflict, the Lincoln County War begins with the killing of John Henry Tonstone.

[Don Wildman]

So it's a factional conflict over the market that is represented in this area. But what occurs is the Lincoln County War. Take me through the chronology of that war.

[George R. Matthews]

The Lincoln County War begins with the killing of John Henry Tomstall, February 18, 1878. After he's killed Alexander McSween, his partner has Dick Brewer commissioned as the constable of Lincoln, and Dick Brewer and the other deputies, including Billy the Kid, Billy the Kid becomes a deputy constable. They are lawmen officially appointed by the justice of the peace in Lincoln. They go after the killers of John Henry Tunstall. And that's when they come across Billy Morton and Frank Baker, who had been involved in the killing of John Henry Tunstall. That's when they are not Regulators at this point, they are constables and deputy constables. And they, on the way back, they capture Morton and Baker. And on the way back, they assassinate both men because they know that Morton and Baker will not be held in jail. They'll be released by the corrupt William H. Brady Sheriff. That's why they killed it too.

[Don Wildman]

So Billy the Kid is one of these Regulators, which is led by a guy named John Middleton. Billy was not the leader in the end. Billy testifies against Jimmy Nolan, and from then on, Dolan pinned all the crimes on him. That's kind of how it lays out, right?

[George R. Matthews]

Yes, absolutely.

[Don Wildman]

Was he the ruthless, bloodthirsty killer? We think of him as Billy the Kid.

[George R. Matthews]

No, he was not. The myth, of course, that he killed 21 men isn't even close. He kills. We know he kills two men in self defense. Wendy Cahill, we've talked about, and Joe Grant later in Fort Sumner. There are deaths during the Lincoln County War, but both sides are shooting during that. And Billy was involved in the, well, the assassination of William Brady, for example. There are five people firing bullets and we don't know if Billy's bullet hit him or not. So, no, he was not. Short answer, right?

[Don Wildman]

I mean, but if you listen to Billy Joel's song, Ballad of the Billy the Kid, he says he kills 21 men. He sings it. He killed probably between four and nine.

[George R. Matthews]

You're saying more like four and seven? Yes.

[Don Wildman]

Okay, good. So his crimes really could boil down mostly to theft and horse rustling. Fair to say, yeah, he was.

[George R. Matthews]

He decided to be a horse and cattle thief. That is correct.

[Don Wildman]

Sheriff William Brady and Deputy George Hindam, 1878 are killed in an ambush in retaliation for the murder of John Tunstall, who we will remind, was Billy's boss. It kind of this whole thing is playing out like a loyalty thing, right? I mean, this is a vengeance for. For the. For the wrong done to someone he cared about.

[George R. Matthews]

They were killed because William Brady, the sheriff, and his deputies, he had four other deputies with him, by the way, were going down to arrest Alexander McSween. And at this time, McSween's people, including the people that became the regulators, they're not the regulators at this point. They've been stripped of the lawman status, but they're not regulators yet. They become regulators with the killing of Brady, but they are defending Alex McSween from being arrested by William Brady because they know that William Brady has made comments that Alex McSween will not survive being in jail in Lincoln after he's arrested by himself. So it is not in revenge for the murder of Tunstall. It is to protect Alex McSween.

[Don Wildman]

So much of this story, so much of this legend comes from the famous escape he makes. He's finally captured by Sheriff Pat Garrett, who we've mentioned, ends up writing a very early version of this story. In December of 1880, he captures him. This becomes a story of the lawlessness of the American West. The bounty is put out for Billy the Kid by Governor Wallace. For what crime exactly?

[George R. Matthews]

The reward is for the killing of William Brady.

[Don Wildman]

Okay. Sheriff Brady, the last escape is what he's most famous for. George, tell me about that story.

[George R. Matthews]

Okay, the. The last escape was from the jail in Lincoln, and that occurred on April 28, 1871. Billy has been confined on the second floor of the Lincoln County Courthouse in just a regular room. It's not a jail cell. And he is in handcuffs and leg irons, by the way. And the story is not told until the 1920s of how he escaped. And that story is that one of his friends in Lincoln, Sam Corbett, has a young boy place a gun in the outhouse behind the Lincoln County Jail, Lincoln County Courthouse. Billy is in the jail on April 28, and he is visited by Sam Corbett. Pat Garrett has left town the day before, and Sam Corbett comes to visit. And the story goes, he slipped a piece of paper to Billy that simply said privy, and that Billy realized a gun had been placed in the outhouse behind the jail, asked the deputy who's in charge of him if he can go to the outhouse. And he's taken to the outhouse, goes into the outhouse, grabs the gun, tucks it in under his outer garments. And he's returning to the jail. He's walking into the courthouse. He's walking up the stairs, turns against the deputy and the deputy starts to run. And Billy shoots the deputy. He then goes to the jail office where he grabs the other deputies Bob Olinger's shotgun and hovels. He's still in leg irons, hobbles to that window you talked about in the courthouse. In the meantime, the shot has been heard by the deputy across the street in Lincoln. He comes running across the street to see what's going on. And when he gets to just under the window, Billy takes a shotgun and kills the second deputy. And that's how he makes his escape from Lincoln.

[Don Wildman]

You know, I gotta wonder why he wasn't in a proper jail cell if he was so famous for escaping from imprisonment.

[George R. Matthews]

No jail cell in Lincoln. It was the county seat. So all they had was the courthouse and just a room.

[Don Wildman]

He was basically locked to the floor. There was a set of leg irons, just like a classic thing. He escapes on April 28, 1881, having killed those two deputies. Next up, we'll be talking about what eventually brought Billy the Kid down.

[LEDN Advertiser]

When opportunity requires capital, be ready. Leaden's Bitcoin backed loans give you liquidity across time zones. 20, 24, 7. When timing matters, access to capital is critical. LEDN gives you liquidity so you can move quickly without disrupting your Bitcoin position. And LEDN has funded over $11 billion in loans since 2018 with a perfect track record of protecting client assets. Get a LEDN Bitcoin backed loan today. Visit LEDN IO a better help ad.

[BetterHelp Advertiser]

After my session and talking to my therapist and really feeling seen and heard for the first time, I just felt like a weight just was lifted off of my shoulders and I felt like it was a good match. From the first time we talked, I could tell people from lived experience that they should try therapy. I could really be myself again. And I have this continued support with better help. Wherever you are, that's where BetterHelp begins. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast to get started,

[LEDN Advertiser]

we're

[Don Wildman]

back with author George R. Matthews talking about the fate of Billy the Kid, his ambush and death. July 14. Explain Pat Garrett and how he hunts him down.

[George R. Matthews]

Pat Garrett, he becomes sheriff of Lincoln county in January of 1880 and he has no jurisdiction outside of Lincoln County. With that, however, he was appointed a deputy U.S. marshal in 1881 to go after a number of outlaws, not just Billy the Kid. So after Billy escapes from Pat Garrett's jail in Lincoln. Pat Garrett goes to get him outside of Lincoln county as a US Deputy Marshal, and he delays three months. Billy escapes at the end of April, and Pat Garrett doesn't go to Fort sumner until July, July 14, 1881, in pursuit of Billy the Kid. He takes his time, but when he gets there, it's completely by accident. It's coincidental that they run into each other. Pat Garrett is searching for Billy the Kid, and he has his two deputies with him, and they go into town, Lincoln and the surrounding area, and nobody will tell him where Billy the Kid is. So Pat Garrett decides on the night of July 14th to go to the home of Pete Maxwell, who is the prominent figurehead in Fort Sumner. And he is in Maxwell's bedroom asking Maxwell, and this is about midnight, a little before midnight, where is Billy the Kid? Is he here in Fort Sumner? And Maxwell says, yeah, he's here. I don't know where, blah, blah, blah. At that time, a figure backs into Pete Maxwell's bedroom, and he's carrying a butcher knife. And we'll talk in a minute about why he backs into the bedroom. But he backs into the bedroom, and Pete Maxwell says, that's him. Billy the Kid had no idea that Garrett was there. Garrett had no idea that Billy the Kid would be coming in. Pat Garrett takes out his pistol, fires two shots. The first one hits Billy the Kid a little above the heart. He dies instantaneously. The second shot goes astray, and that's how he's killed. He wasn't ambushed. It was a coincidence that they met up in that bedroom.

[Don Wildman]

Why was Billy the Kid carrying a knife in the bedroom?

[George R. Matthews]

Okay. Before Pat Garrett goes to Pete Maxwell's bedroom, he's in the. And again, this is, you know, 11:30 or so night. He's in the Peach Tree Orchard outside of Fort Sumner, and he sees this figure in the orchard a good distance away. And this figure gets up from the ground, hops over the fence, and walks back down toward the Fort Sumner community. He later said that he found out that that figure was Billy the Kid. Probably the implication is, Billy the Kid was having sex in the orchard with some young lady, and he found that out later. Well, Billy, this figure goes back into the community of Fort Sumner, and he goes to a home, and it's around midnight again, and he takes off his boots, takes off his hat, and he grabs a knife or is giving a butcher knife by the lady of the house that he's visiting, and he's hungry and he's going to get a midnight snack and he's going to cut a side of beef from outside Pete Maxwell's house. That's why he leaves that residence with a butcher knife to cut this piece of beef. And he's walking toward Pete Maxwell's home. And as he approaches the porch, Pat Garrett's two deputies are outside in total darkness. Outside the fence around Pete Maxwell's house, Billy sees two figures and he says, quien es? Who is it? In Spanish. And he backs up onto the porch and that's when he backs into Pete Maxwell's bedroom. He is carrying the butcher knife. From that, I might quickly add that Pat Garrett claimed in his official report that Billy had the butcher knife, but he also had a pistol. That is wrong. He did not have a pistol, only the butcher knife.

[Don Wildman]

He probably died. It's questionable. But around the age of 21, right. This life has not gone on long. He remains the Kid right to the end. Any myths about his survival? I mean, there's all kinds of stories about this, isn't there?

[George R. Matthews]

Oh, absolutely. Brushy Bill, Jim Miller, are the two prominent guys that are claim to have been Billy the Kid. What we know for a fact is that they both could not have been Billy the Kid. That's indisputable. So one of them has to be lied. And the evidence is overwhelming that Brushy Bill was not Billy the Kid number one. The guy, by his own family records was born in 1879. You know, obviously he's going to be two years old when Billy the Kid is killed, but there's much more information. Did the guy speak fluent Spanish? Billy did. Did Brushy Bill, all kinds of stuff.

[Don Wildman]

And yet there's books written about that side of it. It is a story that's been told through books and movies and TV shows. Like one, I even did, you know, that all grab this or that thread and follow that one through. It's amazing how, how versatile this story really has become. And it's emblematic really of how the American west story, story has been told in so many different versions, isn't it?

[George R. Matthews]

Yes, absolutely. Young Guns 3, by the way, is going to mythologize to the Brushy Bill. He's going to meet Pancho V. I understand.

[Don Wildman]

There you go.

[George R. Matthews]

So it should be a very entertaining movie.

[Don Wildman]

Well, that's the end of it, really. Is that. And, and that's the good or bad of this whole idea of how the west was won and then told through these stories of sensationalism and so forth. Listen, at the end of a week of shooting a TV special, I stood at the gravestone of Billy the Kid, feeling like I finally understood the story. At least here he was buried, only to read the epitaph and. And someone told me, oh, that's not really the Billy the Kid. After all was said and done, it's in a freaking, you know, cage. It's got a cage built around it, you know, the story is still filled with so much apocryphal detail and so many different threads. Thank you for, for sharing your version of this. Where did you land at the end of this? I mean, after years of study and writing, did you feel like you'd finally told the story of Billy the Kid once and for all?

[George R. Matthews]

Yes, very much so. I think the missing pieces to the puzzle are now known and we can pretty much, as I said earlier, strip away the layers of mythology that shroud Billy the Kid. What we really need to have done now, there really needs to be a film, a documentary first about Billy the Kid's true story. It's pretty well documented at this point.

[Don Wildman]

I encourage folks to get your book. It's called Billy the Kid, Life behind the Legend. The author is George R. Matthews and it was came out just last year, is that right?

[George R. Matthews]

Correct. March of 2025.

[Don Wildman]

Okay, find it where you buy your books. Thank you so much, George Matthews. I appreciate it.

[George R. Matthews]

Thank you.

[Don Wildman]

Hello folks. Thanks for listening to American History hit. Each week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of great content like mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements, to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode by hitting like and follow. You help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share with a friend. American history hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support. Bye for now.

[LEDN Advertiser]

When opportunity requires capital, be ready. LEDN's Bitcoin backed loans give you liquidity across time zones 24, 7. When timing matters, access to capital is critical. LEDN gives you liquidity so you can move quickly without disrupting your Bitcoin position. And LEDN has funded over $11 billion in loans since 2018, with a perfect track record of protecting client assets. Get a LEDN Bitcoin backed loan today. Visit LEDN IO

[Professor Lindsay Cormack]

the government gets a bad reputation, but did you know that? The roads under your feet, the forecast on your phone, the letter in your mailbox, that's all government too. I'm Professor Lindsay Cormack and I'm hosting a new podcast called Government that Doesn't Suck, alongside Professor Greg Jackson, who you may know from the hit podcast History that Doesn't Suck. Each episode we dig into the surprising story of an American institution, from the origins of the Internet to the National Park Service to the GI Bill and so much more. You'll hear the stories behind them, plus a conversation with an expert who knows it inside and out. This is the real history of how we built the country under your feet, and you'll never look at any of it the same way again. Listen to and follow Government that Doesn't Suck, available now wherever you get your podcasts.