American History Hotline: A Washington & Lincoln Birthday Special!

Host: Bob Crawford
Guests: Alexis Koh (Presidential Historian), Julian Zelizer (Princeton Professor, Political Historian)
Release Date: February 16, 2026
Podcast: American History Hotline (iHeartPodcasts)

Overview

For President’s Day, Bob Crawford takes listeners on a myth-busting and deeply insightful double-feature about two of America’s most iconic presidents. The first segment with historian Alexis Koh debunks persistent myths about George Washington—cherry trees, wooden teeth, and prayers at Valley Forge, exposing how early American biographies shaped national identity. The second segment, featuring political historian Julian Zelizer, tackles a perennial listener question: Would Abraham Lincoln be a Republican today? Zelizer unpacks the vast party realignment in U.S. history, offering nuanced context for Lincoln’s politics and the complicated evolution of both parties through the present.

Segment 1: Myths and Legends of George Washington

Guest: Alexis Koh, historian and author of "You Never Forget Your First: A Biography of George Washington"
Key Discussion: 00:03 – 17:47

Cherry Tree and "Never Told a Lie"

• Myth: Washington chopped down a cherry tree and confessed because "he could never tell a lie."
• Reality: "It is by far the greatest fan fiction ever invented. Because it was a lie. And I'm sorry to tell you, so were the wooden teeth." (Alexis Koh, 00:52)
• Washington was, in fact, a passionate spymaster: “To say he could never tell a lie is denying him one of the great passions of his life, which was spying.” (00:52)
• The myth was popularized by Parson Weems, a bookseller and itinerant minister looking to provide a young nation with a unifying, virtuous hero.

Creation of the Washington Mythos

• About Parson Weems: Arrived on the literary scene just before Washington's death and proceeded to invent and circulate stories such as the cherry tree fable and the Valley Forge prayer.
• “I don't know if history is written by the victors...but I do believe it is written by the first responders. And Parson Weems realizes, okay, this country is desperate to know who they are.” (Alexis Koh, 07:01)

On the Iconic Valley Forge Prayer

• The popular image of Washington praying at Valley Forge is also fictional, painted posthumously and meant to project a Christian national identity.
• “We know that Washington didn't kneel to pray at Valley Forge the way we know he told a lie… he was a deist, and deists do not believe… in any God to speak to.” (Alexis Koh, 03:25)
• “That is what the man who spoke at Trump's inauguration wants the country to believe about itself. That...we are a Christian nation. And of course, you can be a Christian and you can be a patriot and not believe that we're a Christian nation.” (03:25–04:40)

The Obsession with Washington’s Physique

• Early biographies written by men fixate on Washington’s manliness, especially the size of his thighs, but ignore his personality:
• “They all start out the same way. As if everyone took an oath that we’re going to proceed in the same manner...he’s in danger of just becoming a sort of nothing burger of a founder...” (Alexis Koh, 09:44)

On Fertility Rumors

• Discusses the myth that Martha Washington was infertile, suggesting instead that Washington likely became sterile after surviving smallpox in Barbados as a teenager.
• “He definitely got smallpox during his only trip abroad with his half brother…” (Alexis Koh, 12:11)

Washington’s Teeth: The Real Story

• Myth: Washington wore wooden dentures.
• Reality: They were made from ivory, hippopotamus, and, disturbingly, teeth purchased from enslaved people.
• “The teeth of enslaved people. And this was not a practice he invented...he paid people who he enslaved for their teeth, and he paid them under market value...Then they went into his dentures. And that is a story that there is still obviously a lot of resistance to telling.” (Alexis Koh, 15:56)

Segment 2: Would Lincoln Be a Republican Today?

Guest: Julian Zelizer, Princeton Professor, author of "In Defense of Partisanship"
Key Discussion: 20:50 – 55:37

Evolution of Party Ideologies

• Modern Republican Party:
  • “A party that's anti-government…resistant to many social justice initiatives...increasingly skeptical of international alliances and commitments.” (Julian Zelizer, 21:17)
  • Democrats, conversely, are “a party of government…committed to…1945–type international alliances…on board with [civil rights, feminism, immigration].” (21:17)

Party Realignment and the Southern Strategy

• Turning Point: Nixon’s adoption of the Southern Strategy cemented the transformation of the GOP and passage of civil rights legislation pushed many Southern Democrats into the Republican fold.
• “Richard Nixon, more than any other president and candidate in 1968, sees the potential…He talks about states’ rights…He doesn’t talk explicitly about race, but that is underlying some of the appeal.” (Julian Zelizer, 22:57)

Policy Shifts: Free Trade v. Tariffs

• Radical change in GOP:
  • “The Republicans have moved from staunchly being a free trade party...to where we are today, and part of that is Trump...someone who has been obsessed with [tariffs].” (Julian Zelizer, 34:10)
  • Even as late as George W. Bush, “it was very marginal” to support tariffs; today, tariffs are central to GOP policy.

Lincoln’s Republican Party: Then and Now

• The 1860s GOP:

  • “A, committed to Union, B, ultimately committed to the abolition of slavery, and C…committed to Reconstruction at some level…to help the freed black population and create a more just society.” (Julian Zelizer, 28:05)
  • The Republican Party was then a northern, anti-slavery party, which explains historic black allegiance.

• The Democratic Party of Lincoln’s Era:

  • Varied coalitions; Northern Democrats focused on immigrant and urban voters, but nationally the party was associated with the slave economy, opposition to Reconstruction, and Southern dominance. (Julian Zelizer, 29:43)

Forces of Party Change: Leaders or Voters?

• “Party change is...both [driven by leaders and voters]…Leaders match up and sync up with changing electoral preferences and sometimes stimulate and energize those elements. But they're not just making it out of fresh air.” (Julian Zelizer, 41:18)

Current State and Lessons from History

• Democrats:
  • Have shifted towards “suburban college educated voter[s]...coastal Democrats...leadership has moved to the center since Bill Clinton, I think really, really Jimmy Carter...” (Julian Zelizer, 44:59)
• GOP:
  • “We’ve seen a radicalization in Republican politics...The things that are said today certainly by President Trump would have not been either acceptable in 1980s Republican politics…” (Julian Zelizer, 43:11)

Washington’s Farewell Address Warning

• On Parties:

  • “He warns against what these kinds of divisions will do to the country...faction...but the problem was it didn't really work out that way. We had parties from day one.” (Julian Zelizer, 50:45)

• On Centralized Power:

  • “He did not want a monarch in this country...He gave up power at the very start, when he was a very popular, beloved figure in American politics.” (Julian Zelizer, 52:43)

Notable Quotes

• "If you’ve ever spoken to a child, the concept of truth is very loose…So it’s surely possible that [Washington] lied." — Alexis Koh, 1:36
• “History is written by the first responders.” — Alexis Koh, 7:01
• “He could very much tell a lie, and we know this without even fact checking.” — Alexis Koh, 0:52
• “I would say if [Lincoln] was running today in these political parties, he would fit much more comfortably in where the Democratic Party is than the Republican Party, and certainly the Republican Party of Trump.” — Julian Zelizer, 54:45

Q&A Finale: If We Re-Ran 1860 Today, Where Would Lincoln Land?

• Bob Crawford: “Does he run as a Republican or as a Democrat?” (54:24)
• Julian Zelizer: “He would fit much more comfortably in where the Democratic Party is than the Republican Party, and certainly the Republican Party of Trump…He would not feel like the GOP is his party anymore.” (54:45)

Memorable Moments

• Venn Diagram Gift: Alexis Koh recounts, “The best thing I’ve ever received was a reader gave me a printout of a Venn diagram with Sir Mix-a-Lot and George Washington…he could never tell a lie, and ‘I like big butts’.” (0:52)
• Real origin of wooden teeth myth: The story persists because “we don’t want to tell the real story” about the exploitation of enslaved people (15:56)
• Cultural Self-Reflection: The creation and perseverance of Washington's myths was a way for an insecure young nation to construct its own identity (“this country is desperate to know who they are,” 07:01)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:03: Introduction and setup (myths about Washington)
• 00:52: Alexis Koh debunks the cherry tree story and addresses Washington's love of espionage
• 02:44: The mythmaking of Parson Weems and invention of the cherry tree and Valley Forge legends
• 09:44: Biographers’ obsession with Washington’s body and his legacy as a “marble” figure
• 14:01: The materials – and painful origins – of Washington’s dentures
• 20:50: Turning to Lincoln — would he be a Republican today?
• 21:17: The modern contrasts between Republican and Democratic parties
• 22:57: Nixon’s Southern Strategy and the pivotal party shift
• 28:05: Lincoln’s Republican Party and the Democratic Party of his era
• 34:10: Tariffs—GOP's sharp turn from free trade to protectionism
• 41:18: Forces driving party change
• 50:45: Washington's farewell address and warnings about parties and centralized power
• 54:45: Would Lincoln be a Democrat today?

Conclusion

This President’s Day special deftly demolishes cherished legends while exposing the ways American identity, party politics, and historical memory are collectively constructed—and reconstructed—by those who tell the stories first and loudest. The episode closes with Julian Zelizer’s clear assertion: If Abraham Lincoln were to run in today’s political climate, he would more likely find a home in the Democratic Party—underscoring how dramatically the meanings and memberships of American political parties have shifted since the founding era.