Podcast Summary
Podcast: American Thought Leaders
Host: The Epoch Times (Jan Jekielek)
Guest: Dr. Ryan Cole
Episode: Dr. Ryan Cole: NIH Should Fund Research into Rise in Cancer
Date: September 26, 2025
Overview
This episode features pathologist Dr. Ryan Cole discussing the recent rise in cancer diagnoses, concerns around mRNA technology (both in vaccines and other therapies), and the urgent need for honest, rigorous scientific research in the United States. Dr. Cole shares his thoughts on changes within federal agencies (NIH, CDC, FDA), pharmaceutical industry influence, the importance of transparency, and his personal journey as a whistleblower in medical science. The conversation is characterized by Dr. Cole’s insistence on open debate, data transparency, and caution around new gene therapy technologies.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Problem with mRNA Technology
- Lack of Targeting and Control:
- Dr. Cole: “You can't target these modified mRNA technologies. They go everywhere in the body. That's the problem.” [00:00]
- The lipid nanoparticle delivery system circulates gene sequences to all tissues, raising concern especially for non-target organs.
- Need for a Ban vs. Research:
- Dr. Cole proposes a ban on the widespread use of mRNA technologies in humans and animals, but is open to highly limited research applications in cases of severe, otherwise untreatable conditions. [04:00, 09:12]
- Quote: “For rare conditions, should we allow research into it? Sure. But should we allow self amplifying sequences? ... No, we shouldn't.” [04:00]
- Self-Amplifying RNA Risks:
- Dr. Cole warns of “self-amplifying” mRNA constructs, which can replicate indefinitely in the body, potentially mutating and even shedding to others, raising ethical and biosafety concerns. [06:07]
- Quote: “They don't have an off switch. ... That gene has the potential to mutate and shed out of the body onto surrounding individuals.” [06:07-06:45]
Memorable Moment:
“In theory it's a fancy concept. There's too much money behind it. It became the new scientific rage ... not understanding the consequences pathophysiologically to the human organism.” – Dr. Cole [04:42]
2. Vaccine Contamination, Cancer, and Transparency
- DNA Contamination in COVID Vaccines:
- Dr. Cole references new scholarly work led by Kevin McKernan and others, confirming substantial DNA contamination in vaccine vials, including DNA sequences from E. coli and the SV40 promoter (“a contaminating monkey virus sequence known to bind to tumor-suppressor genes”). [11:15]
- Quote: “They ended up with a bunch of garbage at the end, which included the cell wall and some of the toxins that that bacteria makes, in addition to multiple fold excess regulatory allowed copies of contaminating DNA ...” [11:15]
- Regulatory Lapses & “Process Switcheroo”:
- Manufacturing switched from a synthetic RNA process (used in clinical trials) to a bacterial (plasmid-based) process for mass rollout. The latter was less scrutinized, yet approved for billions. [11:15]
- Quote: “We did a trial on 40,000 people ... and then the process they rolled out wasn't really examined.” [13:00]
- Rising Cancer Rates:
- Dr. Cole cites UK National Health Service data showing a 23% increase in overall cancer since the vaccine rollout, calling for rigorous, unbiased research to investigate possible connections. [16:08]
- Quote: “The National Health Service showed overall a 23% increase in cancer above average ... after the rollout ... in 2021.” [16:08]
- Call for NIH/Cancer Research Funding:
- Dr. Cole demands fundamental, government-funded, and uncensored retrospective studies to test for mRNA or DNA integration in cancer tissues. [17:00]
- Quote: “Let the data speak, but let all the data be seen. ... Let's take a couple hundred cancers, let's look for Pfizer or Moderna sequence in those ... If it's there, great. If it's not, great. But let us at least look at the truth and find the truth.” [17:00]
3. The State of Federal Health Agencies and Prospects for Reform
- Shifting “Overton Window” & Transparency:
- Dr. Cole expresses hope about the increasing willingness within government and among the public to question established narratives and demand openness. He credits new leadership (“Kennedy”) for catalyzing this. [01:14]
- Slow Pace & Systemic Barriers:
- Bureaucratic inertia, entrenched interests, and old regulatory frameworks (like the Bayh-Dole Act) continue to hinder genuine reform. [01:14, 18:17]
- Quote: “Turning government agencies around is like trying to turn a battleship on a dime. ... There are entrenched patterns and layers of bureaucracy.” [01:14]
- New Committees & Leadership:
- Dr. Cole is heartened by new appointments to federal advisory panels (exp. ACIP under Dr. Retsef Levy), predicting stricter vaccine approval criteria, a focus on data integrity, and less tolerance for pharmaceutical influence. [19:49]
- Praises individuals like Dr. Kirk Milhone for their integrity and independence, highlighting a new spirit of responsibility and courage. [22:22]
- Quote: “He's been attacked mercilessly in the media since the announcement, but he's the kind of guy that will say, let's look at the data, but give me all the data.” [22:22]
4. Big Pharma, Media, and Public Discourse
- Pharmaceutical Advertising Reform:
- Dr. Cole supports the recent presidential memorandum requiring greater transparency in pharma advertising and ideally banning direct-to-consumer drug ads (allowed only in the US and New Zealand). [29:02]
- Quote: “If they are going to advertise, then the transparency has to be there. ... You have to show all the harms, all the risks, versus just the glowy picture ...” [29:02]
- Media Capture & Self-Censorship:
- Funding from pharmaceutical companies shapes newsroom content and limits unbiased reporting—sometimes without explicit directives, but through self-censorship. [31:08]
- Quote: “It becomes a self-censorship because you're not going to bite the hand that feeds you.” [31:11]
5. Dr. Cole’s Personal Journey
- Whistleblowing & Professional Consequences:
- Dr. Cole recounts losing his pathology business in Idaho after being targeted by health systems and insurers for challenging official pandemic narratives. [32:32]
- Quote: “It was basically the insurance companies that ended up destroying my business. ... Five years later, I was correct on what I was putting forward, data wise and scientifically.” [32:57]
- Family and Resilience:
- Shares personal anecdotes about family struggles, growth, and the value of standing up for truth despite adverse consequences. [32:57-36:00]
- Quote: “You can take everything away from me. I don't care. ... I'm here to do the good on the earth I can in the time that I have for the people that I can.” [32:57]
6. The Power of Civil Dialogue & Retreats
- Renewing Public Discourse:
- The episode concludes with Dr. Cole’s reflections on attending the Brownstone Institute retreat—a space for open dialogue across political and professional backgrounds. [37:11]
- Quote: “People are beautiful. ... To see this beautiful paintbrush of humanity across the canvas of life and say, this is how we should engage.” [37:36]
- Hope for the Future:
- Emphasizes the importance of empathy, humility, and honest discussion in restoring trust in institutions and one another. [39:00]
- Quote: “An organization like this ... is a perfect example of how we regain humanity and find hope for a future of people that want the world to be a better place for each other.” [39:00]
Notable Quotes & Moments
| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|--------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Dr. Cole | "You can't target these modified mRNA technologies. They go everywhere in the body." | | 04:42 | Dr. Cole | "In theory it's a fancy concept. There's too much money behind it. It became the new scientific rage... not understanding the consequences." | | 06:07 | Dr. Cole | "They don't have an off switch. ... That gene has the potential to mutate and shed out of the body onto surrounding individuals." | | 11:15 | Dr. Cole | "They ended up with a bunch of garbage at the end, which included the cell wall and some of the toxins that that bacteria makes..." | | 16:08 | Dr. Cole | "The National Health Service showed overall a 23% increase in cancer above average... after the rollout... in 2021." | | 17:00 | Dr. Cole | "Let the data speak, but let all the data be seen. ... Let's ... look for Pfizer or Moderna sequence in those ... find the truth." | | 29:02 | Dr. Cole | "If they are going to advertise, then the transparency has to be there. ... You have to show all the harms, all the risks..." | | 31:11 | Dr. Cole | "It becomes a self-censorship because you're not going to bite the hand that feeds you." | | 32:57 | Dr. Cole | "It was basically the insurance companies that ended up destroying my business. ... Five years later, I was correct on what I was putting forward, data wise and scientifically." | | 37:36 | Dr. Cole | "People are beautiful. ... To see this beautiful paintbrush of humanity across the canvas of life and say, this is how we should engage." | | 39:00 | Dr. Cole | "An organization like this ... is a perfect example of how we regain humanity and find hope for a future ..." |
Important Timestamps for Key Segments
- [00:00]: Introduction of mRNA delivery risks
- [04:00]: Dr. Cole’s reasoning for proposed mRNA technology ban
- [06:07]: Dangers of self-amplifying mRNA technologies
- [11:15]: Detailed explanation of vaccine DNA contamination and “process switcheroo”
- [16:08]: Evidence and implications of rising cancer rates post-vaccine rollout
- [19:49]: Prospective changes in vaccine review and public health agency culture
- [29:02]: Discussion on Big Pharma advertising rules and media capture
- [32:32]-[36:00]: Dr. Cole’s personal journey and resilience through professional attacks
- [37:11]-[39:00]: The power and hope imbued in civil discourse at the Brownstone Institute retreat
Tone and Style
The conversation is earnest, urgent, and measured. Dr. Cole speaks with a combination of scientific rigor, personal conviction, and philosophical optimism. The host, Jan Jekielek, encourages detailed explanations and balances hard questions with empathy for Dr. Cole’s journey.
Conclusion
Dr. Ryan Cole calls for a renewed spirit of scientific inquiry, transparency, and humility in health policy—particularly demanding objective research into rising cancer rates possibly linked to novel biotechnologies. He emphasizes that only through honest dialogue, curbs on pharmaceutical influence, and ethical leadership can the nation restore trust in medicine and science.