Podcast Summary

Podcast: American Thought Leaders
Host: The Epoch Times – Jan Jekielek
Episode Title: “I Want My Dad Back: Inside the CCP’s War on Underground Churches”
Guest: Grace Jin Drexel
Date: February 20, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with Grace Jin Drexel, daughter of detained pastor Ezra Jin, founder of one of China’s largest underground house church networks. Grace shares her family's personal ordeal amid the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) crackdown on house churches, describes the current state of religious repression in China, and discusses her decision to advocate publicly for her father’s release. The discussion expands to cover the broader question of religious freedom, the strategy of the CCP against independent faith groups, and the risks that activists and their families face, both inside and outside China.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Crackdown on House Churches (00:00–09:45)

• Background: In 2018, a new wave of persecution swept through Christian communities and other religious groups in China, including the systematic tearing down of crosses and replacing them with portraits of Xi Jinping and Mao Zedong.
• Zion Church: Grace’s father, Pastor Ezra Jin, led Zion Church, which was officially shut down in 2018. Despite this, Zion Church adapted by moving to an online/offline hybrid model, resulting in unexpected growth during the pandemic when the entire country was on lockdown.
  “Zion Church, despite government persecut[ion], grew out of this desperation and out of this, like, forced way of meeting online because, no, there was no physical location for us… It has become a new model and a new kind of revitalization of the church itself.” — Grace Jin Drexel (08:16)
• Recent Events: In October 2025, Ezra Jin and around 27 church leaders were detained in a new crackdown. As of the time of the episode, 18 remain in custody, including Pastor Jin.

2. Living Under Constant Threat & Surveillance (09:45–14:19)

• Open but Monitored: Zion Church services were deliberately public—even though authorities could watch, the church continued to operate (“if there are spies, then we minister to them too” - 10:13).
• Nature of ‘Religious Freedom’ in China: Official churches must register and are heavily monitored, with content censored and control over licensing. Independent preaching outside state approval is criminalized. “You can say you have freedom. And yet by the action, the very action that you do, you are limiting sacred parts of your life… For churches, it's either you capitulate or you die.” — Grace (13:32)

3. The Strategy of Control: Sinicization and ‘Partification’ of Religion (14:20–19:06)

• More than Sinicization: Grace argues that “Sinicization” is less about making faiths more Chinese and more about total Party control—what she calls “partification.”
• Symbolic Domination: The replacement of crosses with portraits of Xi and Mao serves as a visual assertion of Party primacy over faith. “We believe as Christians that God is the head of the church... And yet the party wants to supplant that and say that you can worship as long as you kneel down before me first.” — Grace (18:06)

4. The Spiritual Dimension and Refusal to Submit (19:06–24:12)

• Render Unto Caesar: Discussing how biblical teachings about deferring to secular authorities are (mis)applied in China.
  “We're not out there protesting... what you can't take away is that we believe in God... even something that is so personal to you is now seen as a threat.” — Grace (20:20)
• Doublethink and Historical Parallels: Parallels are drawn to the Soviet Union’s use of “doublethink.” For Christians, true faith cannot be merely performative, nor can they accept the Party as ultimate authority.

5. Conditions of Detention (24:12–26:22)

• Inhumane Facilities: Pastor Jin is held in a crowded detention center without beds or adequate clothing, alongside other leaders—all separated from each other. Family communication is nearly impossible, with only rare legal visits. “It is really difficult to think through and imagine that my father is in that situation and especially knowing that he is not in good health… He would be able to be released soon, especially because his health is failing fast.” — Grace (25:49)

6. Faith, Family, and the Toll of Separation (03:33–05:45, 26:41–28:53)

• Long-term Family Separation: The exit ban and later arrest have resulted in years of separation; Pastor Jin missed his daughter’s wedding, his grandchild’s baptism, and nearly all of his son’s childhood milestones.
• Support Networks: Grace acknowledges support from U.S. officials, churches, and individuals globally, but laments that pressure alone might not be sufficient for release. “Ultimately, I want my dad back. I want my dad to be out of detention centers. I want my dad to be able to be reunited with us in the US...” — Grace (27:13)

7. Transnational Repression and Intimidation Tactics (30:07–34:34)

• Harassment in America: The Jin family has experienced intimidation—impersonation calls, threats, sabotage (e.g., tire slashing), phishing attacks, even feeling watched in Washington, D.C. “We now live in a house surrounded by security cameras, and my husband sleeps with a metal bat next to his bedside... The fear is honestly pretty real.” — Grace (32:09)

8. Speaking Out: Fear, Moral Calculation, and the Hope for Change (34:34–41:00)

• The Impossible Choice: Advocates face the dilemma: staying silent in hopes of leniency, or speaking out to galvanize international support—potentially risking harsher treatment for their loved ones. “I have to get my father out. Even with the fear, you're kind of pushed to this position of like, well, I have nothing that I… I can't do anything else but to keep speaking out.” — Grace (35:19)
• The Power of Truth: Speaking truth is an act of faith and resistance. Grace emphasizes simply sharing the facts of her father’s case, refusing to be cowed into silence.
  “I'm not creating anything that isn't happening. I'm not exaggerating anything that isn't happening. I'm merely saying the facts… Why is that not allowed for me to just speak and say what has already happened?” — Grace (39:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It is truly like in some ways scary to know that like ultimately China does whatever it wants… It is just extremely sad.” — Grace Jin Drexel (01:56)
• “There is no such thing as a fair trial because his crime is not really a crime. They just made the law to do whatever they want.” — Grace (00:34, 32:41)
• “For churches, it's either you capitulate or you die is sort of the model.” — Grace (13:32)
• “All that we are saying is that… This is not a new phenomenon. Many leaders wanted people to worship them or to put them ahead of any of the other ideologies.” — Grace (22:29)
• “We now live in a house surrounded by security cameras, and my husband sleeps with a metal bat next to his bedside, which is pretty ridiculous. But… the fear is honestly pretty real.” — Grace (32:09)
• “Ultimately, I want my dad back. I want my dad to be out of detention centers… and be able to worship freely like everyone in the free world.” — Grace (27:13, 40:29)
• “I'm not creating anything that isn't happening. I'm merely saying the facts. This is what happened to my father. And so, like, what else can I do?” — Grace (39:57)

Important Timestamps & Segment Guide

• 00:00 – The start of the 2018 crackdown; Zion Church persecution
• 03:33 – Years of family separation due to exit ban and crackdown
• 08:16 – Zion Church’s growth via online services during COVID lockdown
• 14:07 – On “capitulate or die” as the reality for independent churches
• 17:04 – Symbolism of Xi Jinping and Mao Zedong portraits on churches
• 20:20 – Render unto Caesar vs. God: the limit on religious autonomy
• 22:29 – Historical and biblical parallels to current persecution
• 24:20 – Pastor Jin’s prison conditions and health concerns
• 27:13 – The hope and rationale for speaking out
• 30:28 – Transnational repression: intimidation of Grace and her family in the U.S.
• 35:19 – The personal cost and determination to continue advocacy
• 39:57 – The power and necessity of simply stating the facts

Closing Thoughts

Grace Jin Drexel’s testimony provides a window into the price ordinary families pay for refusing to submit to the CCP’s ideological control, and the enduring role of faith in the face of authoritarian repression. Her decision to speak out, despite fears and targeted harassment, underlines the power of personal narrative and international solidarity in confronting abuses of power. The episode is an urgent call for increased awareness and advocacy for those unjustly detained for their faith in China.