Episode Overview

Title: Xi and Putin’s Hot Mic Moment on Immortality and Why It Matters
Podcast: American Thought Leaders (The Epoch Times)
Host: Jan Jekielek
Guest: Joshua Philipp, Senior Investigative Journalist & Host of Crossroads
Date: September 17, 2025

This episode tackles a shocking recent incident: Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin were caught on a hot mic discussing achieving immortality via repeated organ transplants—a conversation that stunned observers and shone a harsh spotlight on China’s forced organ harvesting industry. Host Jan Jekielek and guest Joshua Philipp recount nearly two decades of reporting on this issue, contextualizing the hot mic moment within the wider history of human rights abuses by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and examining the global moral ramifications of engagement with such practices. The discussion explores the mechanics of Chinese communism, ethical decay in medicine, Western complicity, and paths for legislative and moral reckoning.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Hot Mic Moment: Unmasking the CCP’s “Immortality” Agenda

• Incident Recap: Xi and Putin openly discussed increasing longevity through continual organ transplants—a moment compared to “getting a video clip of a murderer bragging about how they did it and are happy they did it.” (B, 00:11)
• Emotional Resonance: Both guests expressed shock, yet a grim acknowledgment that, given prior knowledge, the brashness of this moment simply entrenched something long feared and reported.

  “I was shocked. I mean, shocked, but also not shocked because, I mean, we knew it was happening.” (B, 02:22)

2. History & Evidence of Forced Organ Harvesting in China

• Epoch Times Reporting: For nearly 20 years, the outlet has exposed systematic organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience, especially Falun Gong practitioners (A, 00:22, 01:15).

• Key Whistleblower Stories: “Annie”—whose transplant surgeon husband confessed to harvesting 2,000 corneas from live subjects—and Jakob Levy—who realized a patient’s two-week heart transplant from China defied any ethical or medical norm (A, 03:12).

• Initial Rejection & Mounting Evidence: Media and public skepticism gave way to corroborating witness accounts, recordings from hospitals in China, and investigative research by organizations like WOIPFG, and the pivotal reports by David Matas and David Kilgour (B, 04:34).

  • Notable Method: Researchers posed as organ buyers and hospitals confirmed access to healthy Falun Gong organs (B, 04:34).

• China Tribunal (2020): Led by Sir Geoffrey Nice, employing legal standards of evidence, concluded unequivocally that large-scale forced organ harvesting continues—with Falun Gong as principal victims and Uyghurs also likely targeted (A, 09:07).

  "The China Tribunal found unequivocally that this was happening at a large scale. Forced organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience..." (A, 09:07)

• CCP Propaganda & Falsification: The regime’s response was not traditional rebuttal but fabricating evidence and then debunking its own fabrications—a red flag for true cover-up (B, 04:34).

  “They were manufacturing false evidence to spur on the public debate.” (B, 04:34)

3. Why Traditional Chinese Culture Would Not Permit Voluntary Organ Donation

• Cultural Beliefs: Reverence for bodily integrity after death is deeply rooted in Chinese tradition; extremely low rates of voluntary donation (hundreds per year) (B, 11:11).

  • Literary examples: Outlaws of the Marsh, Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio, Taoist Jade Record,—all stress the spiritual danger of bodily desecration (B, 11:11).

• Modern CCP Attitude: The party’s anti-tradition stance and devaluation of life intensifies the population’s reluctance to become donors, fearing financial incentivization of unethical harvesting (A, 13:52; B, 14:26).

  “If you get injured in a car accident, and you’re written as an organ donor...I’d be terrified.” (B, 14:26)

4. Communist Moral Logic — The Party Above All; Expedience over Humanity

• Distinct Communist Ethics: The guests stress that the West’s error is assuming the CCP has relatable values; in reality, communism’s supreme value is the party, not life or moral norms (A, 15:09; B, 17:07).
  • Philosophical Roots: Dialectical materialism, the drive to manufacture suffering and conflict as engines of social evolution.
  • Case Study: Lenin’s manufactured famine, welcomed as a means to destroy faith in the old order and in God (B, 17:07).
• Destruction of Religion: Communism cannot tolerate competing sources of morality; thus, religion and tradition must be eradicated so state action alone defines good and evil (B, 17:07).

  “If the state says it is evil to be a landowner, then that's what evil is... If the state says to harvest the organs of people who oppose the state...that is their definition of good and evil.” (B, 21:35)

5. Communist Governance: Decentralized Evil Accelerators

• How the Organ Industry Exploded: Rather than direct orders, the CCP incentivizes regions to out-compete each other in implementing chilling “strategic directions” from the top, resulting in a competitive race to be the most brutal (A, 23:35; B, 27:52).

  • Analogy to Organized Crime: Advancement in the party demands “getting blood on your hands”—a system where complicity and guilt are requirements (B, 27:52).

  “It's the same way a mafia works...If you want to rise through the ranks, you need to be the most brutal, you need to be the most evil...” (B, 27:52)

• Moral Degradation is Systemic: Even non-elite citizens are coerced into betrayal and immorality to survive, eroding societal conscience (A, 32:23).

  “Communism functions to try to lower everybody’s moral high ground…” (A, 32:23)

6. Western Complicity & Medical Engagement with China

• Export of Materials and Trainings: Medical equipment and expertise from the West have supported China’s transplant industry, often unwittingly facilitating abuses (A, 39:17).

• Erosion of Western Medical Ethics: Evidence emerges (including in U.S. hospitals) of pressure to relax “dead donor” rules—inspired by, or at minimum paralleling, more permissive Chinese practice (A, 39:17–44:45).

  • Notable Quote:

  “The CCP can just pull anybody around, murder them, take their organs, and they do it so much, they become kind of the global leaders on research on organ transplants and organ harvesting because they have just an endless pool of people to kill…” (B, 43:26)

• Global Moral Risk: By engaging, the West risks not civilizing China’s system, but instead becoming corrupted by it.

  “Are we allowing them to damage the integrity of the entire global system?...Are we assisting it by engaging with it?” (B, 44:45)

7. Recent U.S. Policy Shifts and Opportunity

• Federal & State-Level Momentum: HHS statement calling for severing ties with the Chinese transplant system and several states enacting laws blocking insurance coverage for transplants in China; major Congressional bills pending (A, 46:54).

  “America must sever its ties with China’s organ transplant system.” (A, 46:54)

• Potential for Justice: Legislation could directly impact perpetrators, e.g., via sanctions, signaling an overdue moral stand and possibly saving lives (A, 46:54–49:22).

8. Final Reflections: How Will History Judge?

• Engagement Has Empowered Beijing: Efforts to open up China have made the world less free, not more; engagement now seen as enabling human rights crimes (B, 49:22).

• Time for Reckoning: Both speakers wonder how future generations will judge today’s actions—and inactions—in light of overwhelming evidence.

  “I do wonder how people will be judged...I think that day is coming quick.” (B, 49:22)

Most Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the hot mic moment:

  "It was kind of that moment where you're reporting on a murderer and you know a crime has been taking place, and then you get a video clip of the murderer bragging about how they did it and how they're happy they did it." - Joshua Philipp (B), 00:11

• The difficulty of accepting the truth:

  "You kind of don't want it to be true. And that's a weird thing when you're dealing with crimes against humanity on the scale..." - Joshua Philipp (B), 04:34

• China Tribunal's conclusive findings:

  “The China Tribunal found unequivocally that this was happening at a large scale. Forced organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience...” - Jan Jekielek (A), 09:07

• On the CCP’s unique view of morality:

  "It is an anti tradition, anti God and anti life belief. More than just, it’s not, it’s not an economic theory, it is a belief almost like a religion, but, but an extremely evil one..." - Joshua Philipp (B), 21:35

• On CCP incentivizing brutality:

  “If you want to rise through the ranks, you need to be the most brutal, you need to be the most evil... It's like everybody sitting at the table needs to be equally guilty.” - Joshua Philipp (B), 27:52

• Warning for the West:

  “Are we allowing them to damage the integrity of the entire global system?...And Jan, you mentioned Auschwitz and the Holocaust in the past. People who assisted, who engaged, were also deemed guilty by history.” - Joshua Philipp (B), 44:45

• Reflection on future judgment:

  “One day when the truth of all this comes out...how will all of this be regarded? You’re going to have your heroes, you’re going to have your villains. How will the future world judge this?” - Joshua Philipp (B), 44:45

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–02:22: Introduction, Xi and Putin hot mic moment, guest reactions
• 03:12–05:00: Early whistleblowers (“Annie,” Jakob Levy), first media reports
• 09:07–11:11: Explanation of key investigative figures, China Tribunal
• 11:11–14:26: Chinese cultural beliefs about organ donation; clash with CCP logic
• 15:09–21:35: Communist ethos and calculated disregard for human life, morality, and religion
• 23:35–27:52: How the CCP’s internal incentives fuel brutal “innovation”
• 27:52–32:23: Mafia-like party advancement; mechanisms of complicity and censorship
• 32:23–39:17: Concrete examples of coerced moral compromise under communism
• 39:17–44:45: Western engagement facilitates Chinese abuses; erosion of global transplant ethics
• 46:54–49:22: U.S. policy and legislative momentum; hope for real change
• 49:22–51:04: Final thoughts on America’s role; historical reckoning

Conclusion: Tone and Call to Reflection

In a sobering, sometimes harrowing tone characteristic of seasoned investigators, Jekielek and Philipp challenge listeners to confront the horror of state-sanctioned organ harvesting, resist the temptation to look away, and demand both moral and legislative action. The episode blends hard investigative detail with philosophical reflection, continually warning of the consequences—ethical, political, and societal—of ignoring such abuses, and closes with hope that the U.S. is at a pivotal moment to act decisively on the side of humanity and justice.