S1:EP 3 - Abduction Part 3

Summary

America's Crime Lab: S1:EP 3 - Abduction Part 3

Introduction

In the third installment of the first season of America's Crime Lab, hosted by Aelin Lancelesser and produced by iHeartPodcasts and Kaleidoscope, the harrowing cold case of Carla Walker is revisited. This episode delves deep into the efforts of detectives and forensic experts striving to unravel the mystery behind Carla's abduction and murder in 1974, a case that has long haunted the Fort Worth, Texas community.

Background of the Case

Carla Walker, a 17-year-old girl, was brutally raped and murdered in February 1974. Despite extensive investigations, her case remained unsolved for decades, becoming one of Fort Worth's most notorious cold cases. The case garnered national attention, especially after being featured on a crime TV show 46 years later, yet the perpetrator remained elusive.

Othram’s Involvement

Desperate for leads, Detective Jeff Bennett decided to send evidence from Carla's case to Othram, a cutting-edge forensic lab renowned for solving cold cases through advanced DNA analysis.

Aelin Lancelesser [03:53]: "This is part three of the Karla Walker case... so you can follow along to the case."

Breakthrough with Glenn McCurley Jr.

The pivotal moment in the investigation came when Othram successfully extracted DNA markers from Carla’s dress. Initial genealogical profiling pointed to Glenn Samuel McCurley, but complications arose when it was discovered that the individual identified had died two years prior to the crime.

Ryan Reynolds [05:56]: "The last name is McGurley. And David says, but there's a problem, because our genealogists are saying that there is a Glenn Samuel McCurley, but he died in 1972, and Carla was murdered in 1974."

Determining that Glenn McCurley Jr., the son of the deceased McCurley, was alive and residing in Texas during the time of Carla's murder, Detective Bennett added him to an existing list of 85 suspects.

Ryan Reynolds [09:11]: "It was a goosebump moment for me that detectives had worked 46 years to solve this case."

Investigation Developments

In 2020, amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, detectives approached Glenn McCurley Jr. under the guise of a routine check-up. Glenn's initial demeanor appeared nonchalant and somewhat dismissive.

Ryan Reynolds [17:19]: "It does strike me as a little weird that he would come out with his hands up and make this joke about it wasn't me."

Following subtle tensions during the interview, detectives collected a buccal swab from Glenn, which matched the DNA profile associated with Carla's case, reigniting the investigation.

Aelin Lancelesser [18:57]: "So it means that Glenn probably had something to do with Carla's abduction."

Previous Suspects and False Confessions

Over the years, several suspects were interrogated, including Jimmy Dean Sasser, who falsely confessed to Carla's murder three years after the crime. His confession unraveled when inconsistencies emerged, particularly his lack of knowledge about key details reported by Carla's boyfriend, Rodney.

Aelin Lancelesser [33:28]: "They got pretty far in the process. I mean, it just shows yet again how you can't necessarily trust a case just based off of a confession."

Current Status and Next Steps

With Glenn McCurley Jr.'s DNA linked to the case, Detective Bennett faces the daunting task of uncovering the extent of his involvement. The episode hints at upcoming interrogations and deeper dives into Glenn's past, as investigators aim to finally bring closure to Carla Walker's tragic story.

Aelin Lancelesser [37:25]: "What do you want? Do you want a conviction or do you want the truth? I said, absolutely, I want the truth."

Conclusion

America's Crime Lab masterfully intertwines meticulous investigative work with compelling storytelling, shedding light on the relentless pursuit of justice in cold cases. Episode 3 of Season 1 not only highlights the advancements in forensic science but also underscores the profound impact unresolved crimes have on communities and the individuals dedicated to solving them.

Notable Quotes

• Ryan Reynolds [09:11]: "It was a goosebump moment for me that detectives had worked 46 years to solve this case."
• Aelin Lancelesser [26:23]: "What do you want? Do you want a conviction or do you want the truth?"
• Ryan Reynolds [17:19]: "It does strike me as a little weird that he would come out with his hands up and make this joke about it wasn't me."

Timestamps Summary

• [03:53] – Introduction to Carla Walker’s case.
• [05:56] – Discovery of Glenn McCurley’s initial connection.
• [09:11] – Detectives’ reaction to the new lead.
• [17:19] – Glenn McCurley Jr.’s behavior during the initial interview.
• [18:57] – Confirmation of DNA match linking Glenn to the case.
• [26:23] – Confrontation highlighting the pursuit of truth over conviction.

Final Thoughts

For those intrigued by true crime and the intricate processes behind solving cold cases, America's Crime Lab offers a riveting glimpse into the dedication and challenges faced by law enforcement and forensic experts. As the investigation into Carla Walker's abduction progresses, listeners are left eager to hear the unfolding of this long-standing mystery.

Transcript

[Aelin Lancelesser]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Aelin Lancelesser]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Aelin Lancelesser]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Glyn Washington]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Catherine Fenollosa]

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[Unknown]

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[Howie Mandel]

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[Howie Mandel]

Carla, even though she was 17.

[Ryan Reynolds]

To be frank, she looks like she's 12.

[Howie Mandel]

And to see her laying in the, the culvert and what had been done to her, you know, it, I, it just, it broke my heart. And, you know, I, I, I felt an obligation. I needed to figure out who did this.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

The rape and murder of Carla Walker in 1974 went unsolved for decades. It became the cold case in Fort Worth, Texas, that everyone seemed to talk about, but no one could solve. It drew national attention when it was featured on a crime TV show 46 years later. But even that didn't lead investigators to her killer. I'm Aelin Lancelesser and this is America's Crime Lab. This is part three of the Karla Walker case. If you haven't listened to the previous episodes yet, go back and listen so you can follow along to the case. I'm here with producer Catherine Fenollosa. Hey, Katherine.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey, Aelin.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

So when we last talked, Detective Jeff Bennett in Fort Worth had decided to test the second piece of DNA from her dress, sort of a Hail Mary, and send it to the new lab outside of Houston.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yep, Detective Bennett had run out of all other options. And both he and investigator Paul Holz are just absolutely desperate to find out the truth of what happened to Carla. So Jeff Bennett decides to ship parts of Carla's dress off to Othram. And then he basically just has to sit around and wait.

[David Mittleman]

I remember it was July 4th, it was a Saturday morning, about 9am I get a phone call and I see that it's David Mittleman calling. I knew that he had an answer. I could not answer the phone fast enough. And David says, well, Jeff, we got a profile from your DNA.

[Ryan Reynolds]

David says, listen, we are able to extract DNA markers from Carla's clothes. We've been building out the family trees and I have a name for you.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Who is it?

[Ryan Reynolds]

The Last name is McGurley. And David says, but there's a problem, because our genealogists are saying that there is a Glenn Samuel McCurley, but he died in 1972, and Carla was murdered in 1974.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

What?

[Ryan Reynolds]

So it can't be him?

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Unless he became a zombie. But yes, it can't be him.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Exactly. It can't be him. The powder blue dress that Carla wore to the Valentine's Day dance. Her sister Cindy, who was 18 at the time Carla was 17, had worn that dress to a dance before Carla wore it. So there is some thought, right, that any DNA that they're pulling off the dress could actually have already been there the night that Carla's abducted.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oh, that complicates things even more. And also, just to clarify, is this DNA semen, or is it just, like, touch DNA?

[Ryan Reynolds]

I think it's semen, but that's also mixed with some of Carla's DNA.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Of Carla's DNA. Okay. I feel like that is very different. If it's semen. It's not like Carla's sister wore the dress and gave this guy a hug, and then it's there. It's like something happened.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We are talking about teenagers.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

True. And who knows what Carla's sister wants to say or.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Exactly. And these are all, like, really good kids from everybody I've talked to. But, you know, it's. It's high school in the early to mid-70s. They're partying. They're having fun.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

So David Middleman gave Jeff Bennett a name, but there's this problem with it in that the name is of someone who passed away two years before the crime.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Exactly. So Jeff Bennett says, david, I have a question for you. Did Glenn Samuel McCurley have any sons? And David says, we're not at that point yet in the family tree. Give me some time, and I will call you back.

[David Mittleman]

So he called back about an hour and a half later, and he said, bingo. Glen Samuel McCurley had three boys.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oh.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Now, remember, Jeff has put together a suspect list that has 85 people on it. Jeff is immediately scanning down his list of suspects.

[David Mittleman]

Sure enough, number 22 on my suspect list.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Glenn Samuel McCurley Jr. Oh. Jeff does confirm that of the three McCurley brothers, Glenn Jr. Was the only one living in Texas at the time when Carla was killed. And now he needs to focus in on Glenn.

[David Mittleman]

It was a goosebump moment for me that detectives had worked 46 years to solve this case. Now, as a matter to see if we could locate Glenn McCurley if he was still alive.

[Unknown]

There's a part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently I know what funny is. Funny. He bought me a house. But I also know what isn't funny. Ocd. I've lived with OCD my entire life and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented, unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for ocd, it can actually make things worse. That's why I want to tell you about nocd. NOCD is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by Insurance for over 155 million Americans. Their licensed therapists specialize in ERP, the most effective treatment for OCD. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, go to nocd.com to book a free 15 minute call. They are here to help.

[Howie Mandel]

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Buildings Winter Build Sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an rv, boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between, take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter long, but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click Get Started Today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

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[Glyn Washington]

I'm Glyn Washington, the host of KQED's Snap Judgment podcast. And at Snap, we don't just tell stories, we live them. Every week, a different journey, like on a plane with Rihanna. A racetrack in Tijuana. A year inside an Oakland homeless encampment.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Run.

[Glyn Washington]

Real people, real voices with original music and cinematic sound. Snap Judgment from kqed. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It sort of blows Detective Bennett's mind when he gets that information. Because for 46 years, any leads they've gotten have led nowhere. And now not only did he get a new lead, but he actually has a name. Like, there is a suspect to now go and investigate.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Why was Glenn McCurley Jr. On the list in the first place? Because that means something else was indicating it could be him.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So he was in his 30s at the time that Carla was abducted. And the reason he was on the list is when. Remember the magazine to the gun that they found in the parking lot of the bowling alley? At the time, detectives got a list of every single person in the area that owned that type of gun. And Glenn Samuel McCurley Jr. Owned a Ruger.22. So back in the 70s, police interviewed every single person in Fort Worth that owned that gun. Everyone else was able to produce the gun. Glenn was the only person who couldn't. He said that he had been on a fishing trip and the gun was stolen, and he just never reported it.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oh, that's interesting. Could be a clue or a red herring.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Now, he did take a polygraph at the time, and he passed. So it was sort of like, huh, not him. And the police moved on. I mean, they didn't really have anything else to tie him to the murder.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

It is also interesting that he was willing to take the polygraph if that was sort of the gold standard at the time. Yeah, if he did it, you would think he wouldn't want to take the polygraph. Even if I don't trust the polygraph, it is interesting that he was willing to take it, probably believing that it was an effective way to catch someone.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Lying, prove his innocence.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Yeah. So that is interesting to me.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah. So now Detective Bennett has a name.

[David Mittleman]

So started doing some research. Located Glen Samuel McCurley, still living in Fort Worth, just a Couple of miles from the bowling alley that Carla was abducted from. It was in the middle of COVID So we kind of used that as a reason to have this police officer show up at the McCurley's residence.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So two detectives go out to the house. This is in 2020. And they want to see does he still live there. You know, this is 46 years later. They have no idea. And they sort of use it being Covid as an excuse. You know, they're just going door to door, checking on residents. Do you have enough masks? Are you okay? That type of thing.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oh, interesting. A little undercover action happening here.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Exactly. So they go. They knock on the door.

[David Mittleman]

His wife came to the door, and we asked if we could talk with him. She said, he's in the backyard.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And I'm not sure if his wife called to him in the backyard, but he comes around the side of the house to come talk to officers.

[David Mittleman]

One of the first things he did is he lifted up his hands, and he goes, I didn't do it. And in a joking kind of manner with this officer. And he walks up, and they just start joking back and forth and having conversation. So we knew that he was living.

[Ryan Reynolds]

There, and he's laughing.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

It does strike me as a little weird that he would come out with his hands up and make this joke about it wasn't me. Like, that's just the type of joke I think someone would make who was super confident in themselves and not at all afraid of police and not at all worried that something bigger was happening.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When the officers went there, they didn't get any signs that there was anything amiss. I mean, they're an older couple. They're at home, and they've lived there for over 50 years. He was a former truck driver, and she used to run the daycare at the local church. They had two boys themselves. And really, detectives are just going on this name that Othram provided. So the officers leave, and the McCurleys have put their trash out for pickup. And the police just, you know, look through the trash bag that's on the curb, and they take a few things, one being a fast food drink cup. And they take that and they test the straw.

[David Mittleman]

And that profile matched the profile that we had uploaded into codis, and it was Glenn McCurley's DNA profile.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Hang on. Why are they testing the straw?

[Ryan Reynolds]

So the detectives need to confirm his identity, basically to make sure that this person is actually Glenn McCurley Jr. And.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

What does it mean that the DNA from the straw matches the profile in codis.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So it means that Glenn probably had something to do with Carla's abduction. But remember, Rodney, Carla's boyfriend, said their mother might have been more than one man who grabbed her from the car.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Yeah, I remember that. So that means the investigation is not.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Over, not even close.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

So what happens now?

[Ryan Reynolds]

So Detective Bennett knows that Glenn McCurley was somehow involved in Carla's disappearance, but he's got to figure out how. So a few days later, he and his partner Leah, go back to the McCurley house unannounced.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

I gotta say, going back to this person's house, you've got some kind of connection. DNA wise, I would be pretty nervous, shaking in my boots.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah. He knows that this could be a major break in the case. They go back, and their intention is to ask him to come down to the police station where they can question him. They knock on the door again. His wife Judy answers the door, and they ask to speak to Glenn. And they sort of just say, we're looking into an old cold case, and we are just talking to everybody that had been spoken to back in the 70s.

[David Mittleman]

And she said, well, he's got liver cancer, and so he just got back from a treatment. And she said, but I think he'll be glad to talk to you. So we ended up doing the interview at their home.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So Judy welcomes them into the house, and they sit, Jeff Bennett and his partner with Glenn at a kitchen table. They start asking Glenn, hey, I don't know if you remember, this young girl was abducted after a dance from the bowling alley. And Glen is kind of a charming guy. He's joking around with them. He doesn't know who Carla was. He doesn't really remember the case. His wife does. Now. She's sitting at the dining room table off to the side, and every so often she's sort of chiming in and, oh, yeah, I remember that case. Of course, that poor girl. It was all over the news. They never found who killed her. But, you know, Glenn is very comfortable. He's relaxed. He's chatting with the officers.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

So neither of them seem super suspicious, at least in how they're behaving.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Not at all. So Jeff Bennett asks Glenn, so where Were you that February 1974? Where were you that evening? And Glenn says, well, you know, I was probably driving my wife around because she doesn't drive. And that's what I used to do. She ran a daycare center out of our local church, and whenever she had errands to run, I would drive her.

[David Mittleman]

Around his wife spoke up and she goes, well, no, Glenn, don't you remember? That was the week my dad was having surgery in Midland, Texas. I was out of town that week and remember him looking back at her kind of like, really?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Oh, that's the first inkling that Jeff Bennett gets that Glenn's not so thrilled with what his wife has just said.

[Unknown]

There's a part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently I know what funny is. Funny bought me a house. But I also know what isn't funny. Ocd. I've lived with OCD my entire life and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for ocd, it can actually make things worse. That's why I want to tell you about no cd, no C D is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by Insurance for over 155 million Americans. Their licensed therapists specialize in ERP, the most effective treatment for OCD. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, go to nocd.com to book a free 15 minute call. They are here to help.

[Howie Mandel]

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Building's Winter Build Sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an rv, boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between. Take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working on all winter long, but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click Get Started. Today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

Life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Annabe you never have to stress about messes again. At washablesofas.com, discover Annabe sofas, the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out starting at just $699 made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics. That means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, Our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Glyn Washington]

I'm Glen Washington, the host of KQED's Snap Judgment podcast. And at Snap, we don't just tell stories, we live them. Every week a different journey, like on a plane with Rihanna. A racetrack in Tijuana. A year inside an Oakland homeless encampment. Real people, real voices with original music and cinematic sound. Snap Judgment from kqed. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Do we know was that the story he was giving years ago when they questioned him that he was driving his wife around?

[Ryan Reynolds]

There were two stories about Glenn back at the time. One that Hannah's wife sort of did everything together because she didn't drive. The other thing was he was a long haul trucker and his route was basically from Texas to California. He was out of town for stretches. He did actually have a little bit of a criminal history, but it was very minor. His parents had sent him to a boy's home when he was a teenager.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Kind of like a juvenile crime type home.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I don't know exactly why his parents sent him, other than they found him difficult at home. So he was sent to this boy's home. He left that boy's home and ended up stealing a car. So he did have a criminal record based on the car theft, but other than that, now he's in his 70s. All of that time he's having zero police interaction. Right?

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Yeah.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So Jeff and his partner say, listen, thank you so much for answering our questions. Everyone that we're talking to, we're just asking if we can take what's called a buccal swab, which is a swab of the mouth to get a fresh DNA sample.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oh.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So they ask Glenn, you know, hey, would you mind? And he says, oh, you know, I already gave one the first time the police came and asked me had he and his wife Judy at the dining room table says essentially, Glenn, silly. There was no such thing as DNA evidence in 1974. You couldn't have given them a sample.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oh, she's a little beacon of truth over in the corner. Judy is keeping it real.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Judy is totally keeping it real. And frankly, just like you said, did he give a DNA sample back then? Yeah. I think we're so used to DNA being in the conversation about things now that we forget that it's actually fairly recent. I mean, certainly since the 80s that the FBI has been using it. But even more in just thinking about doing your own genealogy and things like that. That's much more recent, but we forget how recent it is. So Glenn's sort of screwed at this point, Right? What is he going to say no?

[Aelin Lancelesser]

He probably should say no, but. Yeah, maybe also just the social pressure with his wife there and the police and I mean, if he did it, I mean, that's a risky thing to do to give your DNA. But also, maybe he's like, oh, they'll fumble the evidence or maybe they won't actually test it. They won't get around to it. So I also get the argument for just trying to fly under their radar.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Also, don't forget, he had been investigated before and they didn't have anything on him. And he's already passed a polygraph and a previous investigation back in the 70s. Are you implicating yourself by not giving your DNA now? You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

I mean, I think it's also interesting that he probably doesn't know what evidence they do have. Like, do they even have DNA to compare it against, or are they just collecting it? And so. So it's no harm to give it if I did it. But also, I mean, I do think it's so interesting with solving crime, how just the social dynamics of a particular conversation can change the trajectory of what happens. Because Honestly, if Glenn McCurley knew that they had solid DNA to compare his DNA against, that would point to him. He should not be giving over his DNA in. In his mind, obviously.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Right.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

I also feel like he could easily come up with an excuse like, I'm tired of doing this. I already gave a polygraph. I don't really trust DNA analyses. I don't like the idea of my DNA getting out there into the system and potentially pull it off in a compelling way.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah. And, Aelin, there's another reason that Glenn might not have been too worried that detectives were there. So over the years, there have been other suspects that police have investigated.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oh, wait, tell me about those people. Who were they?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Let me take a step back. There are a few things I should fill you in. On first, Carla was murdered in February. And apparently every February, Fort Worth hosts a rodeo. I don't know if you've ever been to one.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

I actually did go to one one.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Time, so you can picture what it's like. The one in Fort Worth is massive, and it attracts people from all over, and it's basically sort of a temporary city springs up around the rodeo site.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Totally.

[Ryan Reynolds]

For all of the horses and the cowboys and the handlers and trailers and tents, and they're there for several weeks.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Yeah, I mean, that adds a whole bunch of extra people that could have somehow been connected to the Carla Walker case.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah. So a ton of people every February descend on Fort Worth, and one year before Carla is murdered, another young woman is abducted from her car and strangled.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

In February.

[Ryan Reynolds]

In February.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oof.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And then the same thing happens three years after Carla's murder, also in February, a young woman is sexually assaulted and murdered, also around the time that this rodeo is taking place in Fort Worth.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Oh. So maybe somebody is coming into town, committing these crimes, and then leaving.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah, so keep that in mind. And then at one point, someone actually confesses to killing Carla.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Wait, what?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Who? So this guy, Jimmy Dean Sasser, actually walks into a police station three years after Carla's death, and he says he's.

[David Mittleman]

The killer, and he was arrested for killing Carla.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And he's ultimately indicted by a grand jury for Carla's murder.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Whoa.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah. And he spends seven months in jail awaiting trial. But then he has a change of heart, and Jimmy Dean comes forward and says, you know what? It was all a lie.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

What? Who does that?

[Ryan Reynolds]

I know. It's kind of crazy. I think as it was preparing to go to trial, he realized what he had done. Basically falsely confess to this crime. And I guess all along, police were a little suspicious of his confession because he didn't know a lot of details about Carla's murder. He claims that he kidnapped her and then ended up murdering her because he was angry that she didn't go with him willingly. But he didn't know anything about Rodney or the attack, you know, that Rodney says happened in the car. So he sort of, like, leaves Rodney out of the story entirely. The only info he knew about Carla's case was what had been printed in the newspaper. So kind of early on, I think police weren't totally confident, but he ended up being indicted and jailed.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

That is pretty intense, because also, I admittedly, somewhat late in life, only realized fully what a grand jury was. And the fact that it basically is a mini trial with a kind of jury where they decide there is enough evidence to actually go to a real trial, which means they were on board to actually try to convict this man based on evidence. So my point is they got pretty far in the process. I mean, it just shows yet again how you can't necessarily trust a case just based off of a confession.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And the reason he lied was that his marriage was falling apart and he was sad. Like, what the heck? People do very weird things, and I don't understand it, but it happens. Like, it is not uncommon for police to have a suspect who has confessed to something. Jimmy Dean Sasser actually turned himself into a police station, saying, I did it. It's not like he was even on a suspect list.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Wow, that is strange because I get how if police are questioning you and they're pressuring you, they want to their case against you, you end up just telling them what they want to hear almost out of social pressure. I get that. But to go out of your way to turn yourself in when you're not even a suspect, that, that is. Honestly, I haven't heard many stories.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So over the years, detectives have investigated a ton of suspects. And Now Glenn Samuel McCurley Jr. Is the latest that they're looking into.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

So does he agree to give his DNA to Detective Bennett?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, he's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. You know what I mean?

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Yeah.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Like, he looks guilty if he refuses, but he could incriminate himself if he does. And ultimately he agrees to give them a DNA sample, a buccal swab of his mouth.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

Next time on America's Crime Lab. She asked me, you know, Jim, let me ask you a question.

[David Mittleman]

What do you want? Do you want a conviction or do you want the truth? I said, absolutely, I want the truth.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He raised his hand and I was like, oh, my God.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

He's pleading.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He's bleeding. I was telling everybody around, he's pleading. They're like, pleading to what?

[Catherine Fenollosa]

I said o' murder.

[David Mittleman]

I have to be honest with you, that was a real surprise who it ended up being at the end of the day.

[Aelin Lancelesser]

America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. Erica Lance is our story editor and sound design is by David Woje. Our producing team is Catherine Fedalosa and Jessica Alpert. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne, Mangesh Hadikidur and David and Kristen Mittleman. And from iHeart, Katrina Norville and Ally Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Netoski, John Burbank, and the entire team at othram. I'm Alin Lance Lesser. Thanks for listening.

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[Catherine Fenollosa]

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[Aelin Lancelesser]

This is an I Heart podcast.