S1:EP 4 - Abduction Part 4

Summary

America's Crime Lab: Season 1, Episode 4 – "Abduction Part 4"

Release Date: July 30, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Karla Walker Case

Timestamp: [00:00] - [04:15]

"America's Crime Lab," hosted by Aylin Lance Lesser, delves into the heartbreaking case of Karla Walker, a 17-year-old murdered 46 years ago during her high school Valentine's Day dance in Fort Worth, Texas. The episode focuses on the relentless pursuit of justice by Karla's brother, Jim Walker, and the breakthrough achieved through advanced DNA technology provided by Othram.

Notable Quote:

• Detective Jeff Bennett: "46 years after Karla Walker was murdered, after her high school Valentine's day dance, police in Fort Worth, Texas make an arrest."

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2. Breakthrough Through DNA Evidence

Timestamp: [04:15] - [07:00]

The case, long cold with no conclusive leads, finally sees progress when new DNA testing of the dress Karla was wearing during the attack points to Glenn McCurley Jr., a local father of two. Detectives Jeff Bennett and Leah Wagner approach McCurley for a DNA swab, which reveals a match with the DNA found at the crime scene.

Notable Quote:

• Karla Walker's Brother, Jim Walker: "He showed her a picture of Carla to Glenn, said he didn't recognize her."

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3. Glenn McCurley Jr.'s Interrogation and Confession

Timestamp: [07:00] - [16:37]

Initially denying any involvement, Glenn McCurley Jr. becomes emotional during his interrogation. Under gentle but persistent questioning by Detectives Bennett and Wagner, he admits to raping Karla but initially denies killing her. Further probing leads McCurley to confess to strangling Karla, especially after being confronted with inconsistencies in his statements and the overwhelming DNA evidence.

Notable Quotes:

• Glenn McCurley Jr.: "I did go to the bowling alley parking lot that night... I pulled her out of the car and saved her from an attack."
• Detective Jeff Bennett: "How did your semen get onto her clothing?"
• Jim Walker: "Mr. McCurley, why did you select the spot you did to place Carla's body?"

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4. Uncovering a Serial Killer

Timestamp: [16:37] - [26:33]

As the investigation deepens, detectives discover that McCurley may be responsible for multiple murders beyond Karla's case. Previous victims, such as Becky Martin, show striking similarities in their abductions and murders, including the method of strangulation and the location where their bodies were found. The revelation that McCurley's DNA matches samples from other unsolved cases suggests he may be a serial killer who evaded detection for decades.

Notable Quote:

• Jim Walker: "We have a strong suspicion that Glenn's responsible for not just several murders in our city, but he was also a truck driver. He had a route from Fort Worth out to California and back."

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5. The Trial: Challenges and New DNA Technology

Timestamp: [26:33] - [43:30]

Despite McCurley's confession, he pleads not guilty, prompting a trial that hinges on the admissibility and persuasiveness of the new DNA evidence provided by Othram. The trial is set to be a landmark case as it tests the efficacy of Othram's forensic genetic genealogy in court. The courtroom dynamics are intense, with emotional testimonies from both families and the introduction of McCurley's confession tape as key evidence.

Notable Quote:

• Aylin Lance Lesser: "It will be the first time that this new DNA technology that Othram has developed will be tested in a court case."

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6. Emotional Impact on Families and Community

Timestamp: [43:30] - [36:02]

The episode poignantly highlights the emotional toll on both Karla's family and McCurley's family. Jim Walker grapples with his long-held anger and desperate hope for justice, ultimately finding solace through faith and forgiveness. In a powerful moment, Jim extends compassion to McCurley's son, Roddy, emphasizing the shared pain and the human capacity for forgiveness despite unimaginable tragedy.

Notable Quotes:

• Jim Walker: "You're as much of a victim as my family in this."
• Jim Walker: "Forgiveness is not necessarily for the person who hurts you. It's kind of for you, because you're taking control back."

---

7. Legislative Implications: The Carla Walker Act

Timestamp: [41:50] - [43:30]

Inspired by the breakthroughs in Karla's case, Kristen Mittleman from Othram advocates for the "Carla Walker Act." This proposed legislation aims to allocate dedicated funding for advanced DNA testing in unsolved cases, ensuring that no perpetrator remains unidentified due to technological limitations. The act seeks to regulate the forensic industry and make cutting-edge genetic genealogy accessible to all families seeking justice.

Notable Quote:

• Aylin Lance Lesser: "Why don't we have that concept in forensics?"

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8. Conclusion: The Ripple Effect of Solving Cold Cases

Timestamp: [43:30] - [45:11]

The resolution of Karla Walker's case not only brings closure to her family but also underscores the importance of advanced forensic technologies in solving cold cases. Detective Bennett remains committed to investigating other potential victims linked to McCurley, emphasizing that each solved case reaffirms the value of persistence and innovation in criminal investigations.

Notable Quote:

• Jim Walker: "He knew exactly the number of days to the day that his sister was taken. I think he said 19,298 days ago."

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Final Thoughts

"Abduction Part 4" serves as a testament to the indomitable human spirit in the face of prolonged injustice. Through meticulous investigation, technological advancements, and the profound capacity for forgiveness, the episode offers a comprehensive look into how cold cases can eventually find resolution, bringing solace to those left waiting for answers.

Notable Quote:

• Aylin Lance Lesser: "It showed me why every case should get the best chance of being solved."

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Key Takeaways:

• The critical role of advanced DNA technology in solving decades-old cases.
• The psychological and emotional impact of prolonged investigations on families.
• The potential for legislative changes to enhance forensic capabilities.
• The importance of community and familial support in the healing process.

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Produced by iHeartPodcasts and Kaleidoscope, "America's Crime Lab" continues to shed light on unsolved cases that have deeply affected communities across the nation.

Transcript

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Aylin Lance Lesser]

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[Glen Washington]

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[Aylin Lance Lesser]

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[Detective Jeff Bennett]

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[Aylin Lance Lesser]

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[Morton Buildings Representative]

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[Detective Jeff Bennett]

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[Katherine Fenollosa]

Where were you when you found out that they had made an arrest?

[Ryan Reynolds]

I was in the house here, actually, the same house that, you know, Carla was last seen in because I bought her a house. My wife and I did because we wanted to make sure a walker was here in case somebody had an end of life story to tell. Confession. It was kind of cold and wet outside and I got a call from Jeff Ben and said, we've got him. He's confessed. I cried. I got teary eyed. You know, it's like finally, right? Finally.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

46 years after Karla Walker was murdered, after her high school Valentine's day dance, police in Fort Worth, Texas make an arrest. For decades, Carla's brother Jim had desperately hoped for an answer, encouraging law enforcement to keep the case alive.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The only thing I would ever accept is something that was introduced through a witness stand to 12 jurors in a court of law. Not just to hang this on somebody, right? And too many times that has happened. We wanted the right person. I want the truth.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

The truth of what happened to 17 year old Karla Walker had been hiding in plain sight. Was it someone who knew Carla or a complete stranger? At one point, police even jailed someone for the crime. But the case always went cold. Now detectives had their first big break in years. This is America's crime lab. I'm Aylin Lance Lesser. This is the final chapter of the Karla Walker case. If you missed the previous episodes, please go back and listen. Producer Katherine Fenollosa is here with me. Hey, Katherine.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Hi, Aylin.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

So, Katherine, where we were at, there's new DNA testing of the dress Carla was wearing the night she was attacked. And it's pointing to a local father of two.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, his name is Glenn McCurley Jr.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Right. And Detective Jeff Bennett and his partner go to question Glenn because they want a DNA swab of his mouth.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Exactly. So they need to confirm his identity and compare it to the DNA that was found at the crime scene. And initially, Glenn's like, eh, I'm not into giving over my DNA. But he. He does. He gives him a sample.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Ugh. And what did it show?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Well, it shows that Glenn McCurley's DNA matches the DNA that was found on Carla's dress back in 1974.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Oh, my God. That's a big deal. Cause that suggests. I mean, that points to him to potentially being the killer. If his semen is on her dress mixed with Carla's DNA, that pretty much.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Confirms that Glenn was likely the person who raped Carla. But it doesn't mean that he's the person who killed her.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Mm.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

If you're gonna believe Rodney, Carla's boyfriend at the time, he wasn't sure if there was one guy who pulled Carla out of the car or two.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Right. And I remember that Paul Holz, the investigator, said Rodney gave conflicting statements about what happened that night.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah. And Glenn's in trouble here because his alibi doesn't shake out. Right. Because his wife Judy was out of town. So there's no way he could have been driving her around. But, I mean, does that make him a killer?

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

That alone does not make him a killer. So what happens now?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So, at this point, the police, they have enough evidence to arrest him, which.

[Jim Walker]

Came to quite a shock to his wife. Unfortunately, she was present when he was being arrested, and he was brought to us for us to interview him.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And there is video that I've watched of the interrogation in the police department. And I have to say, Aylin, it is so wild. He's in his late 70s at this point. He is a very large man. He's tall, broad shoulders. This is a guy who looks like he's been working with his hands his whole life.

[Morton Buildings Representative]

He.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And watching the video of him in this small interrogation room with Jeff Bennett and his partner. And maybe I've seen too many TV crime shows where there's good cop, bad cop, and, you know, there's some cop leaning over the table with his, like, finger in the face of the suspect. This was not that. They're actually sitting very close. Close to Glenn to the point of where, like, their knees are almost touching.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Wow.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

They're very gently asking him questions. Do you remember Carla? He starts out by saying, I don't know Carla. I've never seen her.

[Jim Walker]

He showed her a picture of Carla to Glenn, said he didn't recognize her.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

After some more questioning, he starts to say, you know, I did go to the bowling alley parking lot that night, and I had been out having a few drinks. And now, remember the night that it happened? Rodney and Carla gone to the dance, cruised around town with some friends. They dropped the friends off, they went to the bowling alley so that Carla could use the bathroom. And the bowling alley parking lot is pretty empty. It is very dark. Glenn says, yep, I do actually remember pulling into that parking lot, and I parked my car, and I heard a woman screaming for help. And I realized she was being attacked by this guy in a car next to me. And so, yes, I did open the door and I rescued her. Wait, what? And I pulled her out of the car and saved her from an attack.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

From this guy and left my semen on her dress. What?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

He knows that he's being arrested because there was his DNA on Carla's dress. And so Detective Bennett asks him that, well, how did your semen get onto her clothing?

[Detective Jeff Bennett]

And.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Glenn says, oh, well, I was going to give her a ride home and save her from this guy who was attacking her. And she was so thankful. And, you know, frankly, we hit it off and we had sex, and it was totally consensual, and I did not attack her. She was just so thankful that I had saved her. Also.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Is he saying then that it was Rodney attacking her or somebody else came?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

He was saying that Rodney was the one attacking her in the car, which is not totally far fetched. Rodney was on the suspect list. There were lots of people who thought Rodney was the one who killed Carla.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Okay, Carla was being attacked, and then you had some kind of sexual interaction with her, and then she was found murdered. So she was attacked by two separate people that night or two separate times. It. That just makes no sense.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So he initially doesn't have an answer as to what happened to Carla after they had sex. So Jeff and his partner keep questioning Glenn in the video of their interrogation. He's at this point, sort of slumped over, and he starts crying.

[Jim Walker]

He eventually did admit to killing Carla and that he had choked her, confessed to that. It took him quite a while to confess to raping her.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

He admits it.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

He admits it.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Why? I mean, how. How did they get him to do that? Was he just resigned? Like, what. How did that happen?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

He looks broken down, and it looks like he's just kind of run out of explanations, and he starts to cry. And at this point in the video, you see Jeff Bennett and his partner Leah slide their chairs even closer to Glen. And Leah has her hand on Glen's Arm. Jeff sort of taps Glen's knee.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Oh, my gosh.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And they're almost comforting him. Jeff is very careful not to prompt Glen with any details of where Carla was found.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Mm.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

They just keep very gently asking him more questions. And Jeff asks him about the location where Carla's body was found that evening, which, if you remember, she was found on the outskirts of Fort Worth down a fairly rural road. And her body was then placed half hidden inside a cattle culvert.

[Jim Walker]

I said, Mr. McCurley, I said, why did you select the spot you did to place Carla's body? Because I knew that it took a lot of work to get her down into that culvert and over that barbed wire. And there's no street lights out there. It's completely dark. It's by a lake. I didn't want to describe the area for him, but I wanted him to tell me. So why did you select the spot you did? And he goes, well, you drive down this road, Granbury Road, and you go off to the right, and there's this building there. And I placed it up against this building in this bush. I said, no, Mr. McCurley, that's not where Carla's body was placed. Why did you select the spot you did to place Carla's body? And this was another goosebump moment. I said, Mr. McCurley, are you sure you're not getting this confused with somebody else you've done this to? And he pauses, and he looks up, and he goes, I don't think so. Which I knew at that moment that this was not the only person that Glenn McCurley has murdered.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

You might remember that the year before Carla's murder, another young woman was attacked.

[Jim Walker]

There was a victim, Becky Martin. Becky was abducted from her vehicle as she was leaving school, getting into her car. She was murdered in February, and she was also found in a culvert almost identical to Carla's.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Detective Jeff Bennett says there were a few other cases of young women who were also abducted from their cars, and their bodies were dumped in rural areas outside of Fort Worth.

[Jim Walker]

Two of those, their purses were found within a mile of McCurley's home.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Oh, my God.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

A couple of them had been very similar to Carla, strangled with their bras. Another thing that struck Jeff Bennet was, now, we know Carla was wearing a powdered blue dress the night she was murdered. But when police were questioning Glen, he said, nuh. She was wearing brown pedal pushers and saddle shoes. What? All of this led detectives to feel that Carla was not Glenn's Only victim.

[Jim Walker]

We have a strong suspicion that Glenn's responsible for not just several murders in our city, but he was also a truck driver. He had a route from Fort Worth out to California and back. So we have a strong feeling that he could be responsible for other murders.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Now, the DNA match off of Carla's dress is what's giving detectives confidence that Glenn's confession is real.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

So they've uncovered a serial killer. They've literally stumbled across this guy who, it sounds like, committed a variety of murders. Oh, my God. I mean, what did Jeff Bennett think in that moment?

[Jim Walker]

You don't start off abducting a young lady out of her car with her boyfriend, being willing to assault the boyfriend. You've built up to this, and you've got a high level of confidence to commit this kind of crime. And that was further evidence for me that when he responded with I don't think so, that this was not his only offer. Fence like this.

[Glen Washington]

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[Morton Buildings Representative]

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Building's winter build sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an rv, boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between, take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter long, but the building Spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click get started today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[Detective Jeff Bennett]

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[Glen Washington]

I'm Gwen Washington, the host of Snap Judgment from kqed. Every week we don't just tell stories, we drop you inside them. Real people, real voices, real moments that split a life in two. What do you believe? What do you risk? What do you want? Snap Judgment New episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Do they ask him about his gun?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

They do.

[Jim Walker]

I said, glenn, I know that you had this gun. Your gun wasn't stolen. I know you have it. And he just dropped his head and he looked up and he goes, I've still got it. And I said, glenn, where's the gun? I said, is it in your house? And he said, yes. I said, tell me where in your house it is.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And Glen says, yeah, I added a room to my house and if you go to my house, go into that room and there's a ceiling panel and if you push up on the ceiling panel, you'll find the gun and it's wrapped in a towel.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Oh my God.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Jeff goes, he finds the gun exactly where Glenn said it was.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

So he'd just been hiding the gun for almost 50 years in his house in a room that he built?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yep.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

With this secret little spot.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Not only that, Glenn and his wife Judy, they had two boys. Glen's Two sons went to the same high school where Carla, her older sister Cindy, and her younger brother Jim went. And they were in high school at the same time when Carla's brother Jim was in high school. So pretty much every day after Carla was killed, Glenn drove his sons to high school and drove by the Walker house.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Oh, my God. So let me get this straight. We've got the DNA on Carla's dress that matches Glenn McCurley. He's also confessed to the murder.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Ultimately, it needs to go to trial, because unless someone is convicted of Carla's crime, it's still not solved.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

That is so true. Even if you have a confession or you have a ton of evidence, it's also a matter of exactly what is permissible in court, how a jury interprets the information, the arguments the lawyers make.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And, Aylin, you can't forget about Rodney, Carla's boyfriend at the time. I mean, remember, there was so many, so much suspicion swirling around him that he moved from Fort Worth up to Alaska. So either you believe him and he's also a victim in all of this, or you think he's just telling a really great story. So it's not just about finding out who did this to Carla, but it could also prove someone else's innocence. Yeah.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

It does feel like the implications of this trial are huge and that this does go beyond just finding the truth, which is so important, but it's also. It's about everyone's perspective and perception and therefore, how people continue to live with what happened and cope.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Exactly. And there's another thing that is pretty groundbreaking about the upcoming trial of Glenn McCurley. It will be the first time that this new DNA technology that Othram has developed will be tested in a court case.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

So we don't even know for sure if this DNA evidence will be accepted by the jury or permitted in court or exactly how this will all go down.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

We don't. So it goes to trial. And Even though Glenn McCurley confessed at the police station in front of Detective Jeff Bennett and his partner, Leah, to strangling and raping Carla, he pleads not guilty.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

That's surprising, given the whole confession.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

I know, and maybe I'm naive, but I just assumed that it wouldn't even go to trial because he confessed and.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

They would just have some sort of deal.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, but he pleads not guilty, so he must have maybe been thinking there was a chance he'd be acquitted.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

And who knows, since this is new DNA technology, maybe it won't be admissible. Or even if it is admissible. It's not compelling to the jury.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So maybe if you're Glenn, you're really rolling the dice, right? Because he has been living in the community, married to the same woman for 50 plus years. A lot of people at his church have stories about him, you know, helping fix their car when it broke down, giving them rights, places. It's not like this is the guy that everybody's like, oh, we always knew something creepy. You know, he. Something was off with him.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

I will say, though, the more I consume media about true crime, the more it does blow my mind how so often it is someone that you don't suspect, or as they say in the office, the person you most medium suspect. It's not necessarily the person in the room who's behaving in a really wild way or is extremely creepy. I mean, maybe sometimes it is, but so often it's someone embedded in the community who is seen as dependable.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And as you can imagine, the courtroom is packed. Yeah, absolutely packed. And Carla's family's there, Rodney's there, her boyfriend at the time, and the cowtown chicks, the four women who bonded over Carla's case and investigated it on their own. And then Glenn McCurley's family is there. Detective Jeff Bennett testifies, and they play a lot of Glenn McCurley's taped confession from the police station during the trial.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Interesting. So wait, how does the gun play into all this? Was that brought up in court? Because that's also another very compelling piece of evidence against Glenn.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, they do bring the gun out and they show it to the jury. The next morning, everyone arrives at the courthouse. I think it's day three of the trial, and it's kind of off to a slow start. There's some delay for some reason. And Kathleen Barnett, one of the cowtown chicks, she notices something. I saw McCurley. He was kind of shuffling his wheelchair.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

You know, like people do. And he stopped at the clerk's desk.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And he raised his hand.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

And I was like, oh, my God, he's bleeding. He's bleeding. I was telling everybody around, he's bleeding. They're like, pleading to what? I was like, captain America.

[Glen Washington]

I can't tell you how often I hear, oh, I'm a little ocd. I like things neat. That's not ocd. I'm Howie Mandel, and I know this because I have ocd. Actual OCD causes relentless, unwanted thoughts. What if I did something terrible and forgot? What if I'm a bad person? Why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy. Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I wanna tell you about nocd. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for ocd. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually and it's covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call and learn more. That's nocd.com.

[Morton Buildings Representative]

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Buildings Winter Build Sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an rv, boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between, take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter long, but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click click get started today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[Detective Jeff Bennett]

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[Glen Washington]

I'm Glen Washington, the host of KQED's Snap Judgment podcast. And on Snap, we don't just tell stories, we live them. Every week, a different journey, like on a plane with Rihanna. A racetrack in Tijuana. A year inside an Oakland homeless encampment. Real people, real voices with original music and cinematic sound. Snap Judgment from kqed. New episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

So after all that, Glenn decides to plead guilty. Why do you think he did that?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

I have no idea. But Detective Jeff Bennett has a theory.

[Jim Walker]

I think he didn't want the jurors making the decision for him. I think he still wanted to maintain control, and so he. He pled guilty.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

There's a stunned silence from everyone at the courthouse, and Kathleen Barnett looks over at Glenn's family, at his wife and son.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

And there was Judy and Roddy McCurley sitting there. And I recognized them from all the.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Sleuthing we, of course, had done once the announcement.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

But I walked up to Roddy and.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

I said, I'm sorry for what your family's going through.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

How does that impact Glenn McCurley's children, who, you know are adults now. But to find out that your dad committed this horrible murder, and here he's your dad. I could just see how that would really impact your identity, how you see yourself, your whole childhood, who you are.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Oh, my God. You have to be, like, rethinking everything. Like, my entire life is like a lie. Like, this person that I have spent the most time with of your parents, and I didn't even know this person. Like, living with a monster and having absolutely no idea. I mean, you must be questioning yourself. Everything.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Yeah.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So Kathleen's talking to Roddi, Glenn's son.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

And he stood up to talk to me, and I said, I know Jim.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Will want to meet you. Kathleen can see that Jim, Carla's brother, is kind of stuck going through security, but once he makes it through, she calls him over to where she and Roddy are standing, and Jim just started.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Talking to him, and they both started crying.

[Jim Walker]

And Jim walker hugged Len McCurley's son. And when he was embracing Roddy, he just. He told Roddy, you're as much of a victim as my family in this. Roddy had no idea that his father was a murderer, and this was all just a shock to him and rocked his world. And Roddy, absolutely. I mean, he's a victim like so many other people in this.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

So for Jim to make that gesture of approaching him and kind of acknowledging how painful this must be for the person who is the son of Glenn McCurley and to face him and say that, I mean, that is truly powerful.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And, like, such a sign of compassion. Like, I don't know if I'd be able to do that. I mean, I know it's not Roddy's fault, Glenn's son, that his dad did this, but that's a really open heart to have, because it's easy. You could just direct more of the anger that you have about your sister's brutal murder toward one of Glen's family members and to literally embrace the him. I mean, that's. It's courageous and it's compassionate. I don't know. I don't know how many people could do that.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah, God works. God has a sense of humor.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Jim told me that since the trial, he and Roddy have actually gotten to know each other.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He's a personal friend. We've had dinner together, Thanksgiving dinner together. He's welcome at my house anytime. He's a good man. And he was devastated as well. His dad committed a vicious crime on him as well, meaning all that his dad had done had victimized his family. Yeah. It's funny how God works. Good could come out of evil.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Jim has spent a lot of time reflecting about what all of this, Carla's murder and his obsession with finding her killer has done to him personally.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I spent so many years hating, right, Raging. I mean, it was a dream of mine. I would talk to God a whole lot. Just, lord, let me know who it is, and he'll disappear, and I'll take care of it. The things that I thought, that I knew I wanted to do were sadistic and horrible. I'd lost my mom, lost my dad. Took care of my mom for a long time. I used to kiss her, you know, before she went to sleep at nighttime and tell her, hey, we're going to catch the guy. We're going to get him. We're going to get him. Everything changed. Everything changed in my life.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Oh, I can see how his anger was probably tearing him apart. So what changed?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, it was. I mean, Jim's anger was always there, just right under the surface. And it got to the point where he was starting to become worried about what he might do. So he said he was pretty desperate, and the last thing he could think of was to turn to his faith.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Had to give it all to God, or I wouldn't be here. I'm a believer, and because of that, I was required to forgive. Right. Forgiving doesn't mean forgetting. You don't have to forget, but when somebody has done, use you Know caused such pain, such wrong. We all need to forgive the person. Doesn't mean anything the bad guy did was right. But what happens is when you forgive somebody for doing horrific, ly harmful things to you or your family or loved ones is you take the power away from that person, from them controlling you. Right. And I learned quickly that forgiveness is not necessarily for the person who hurts you. It's kind of for you, because you're taking control back. You're not letting some boogeyman control your life. Right.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Glenn mccurley is sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. He ends up dying in 2023 of natural causes. But detective Jeff Bennett is still investigating the murders of the other young women in fort worth because he thinks they could be more of Glenn's victims.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

And what about Rodney, Carla's boyfriend? I mean, he was a suspect for almost 50 years. How did he react to all this?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

I know. I mean, this case is really as much about convicting who killed carla as exonerating Rodney. I mean, he had lost his relationship with the walker family when carla died. He distanced himself from friends and moved up to Alaska. I mean, he really moved away from everything he knew. And Kathleen, the cowtown chick, I think she explains it best. When she spoke to Rodney after glenn's guilty plea, it was just like the whole weight of the world.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

You could just hear it in his voice. His life was changed.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So after court that day, Carla's family and friends decide to walk across the street to a restaurant, and they invite the cowtown chicks, Kathleen and Diane, and detective bennett and his partner, detective Leah wagner. And they all just sort of want to get together and process what's just happened and remember the promise ring?

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Yeah, the one that rodney so many years earlier had given to carla, that they found by Carla's body. Some people saw it as a sign of Rodney's guilt.

[Jim Walker]

We still had the promise ring in evidence. My partner, Leah, she asked me, she goes, how do you feel about us giving that ring back to Rodney? And I said, you know what? I think that's a great idea.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Diane said, while everyone's gathering in the back room of this restaurant, it turns out that detectives Bennett and wagner actually head back to the police station and to pick up the promise ring.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

She opened up this little box that she had taken out of her pocket, and it was the promise ring that rodney had given Carla, and it had been in evidence all that time. And she went and gave it to him. And we were all in tears then, you know, and clapping and cheering for her, because I guess that was kind of her way of saying she was sorry.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

This case went unsolved for 46 years, and it makes you wonder how much longer it would have just sat there without forensic genetic genealogy. And that got Kristen Mittleman from Othram thinking she met Jim Walker and listening to what this whole ordeal did to him and his family, it literally left her in tears. And she was like, wait a second. Why doesn't every single victim and family have access to this technology?

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

He knew exactly the number of days to the day that his sister was taken. I think he said 19,298 days ago. He was counting the days. And it was just one of those extremely overwhelming moments where you can see the impact that one DNA test has on the world. And it showed me why every case should get the best chance of being solved.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And I'm pretty sure it's out of her wheelhouse, but she was like a woman on a mission. And she met with lawmakers to introduce a bill in Congress, and it's called the Carla Walker Act.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

What we realized is there needed to be a dedicated pot of funding that law enforcement could go to when their case had reached a DNA dead end. And there was no answer through traditional DNA testing, whether it was a victim that was unidentified or a perpetrator that was unidentified, that they could go to and say, look, I have DNA. It's suitable for this technology. Can I please have some funding to run this more advanced DNA testing?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

The Carla Walker act would also funnel money to state crime labs so they could do this type of forensic genetic genealogy in house, and it would regulate the industry. So right now, labs don't have to share how successful they are at testing DNA from crime scenes.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

When you go to a doctor, they're using a treatment on you that they have metrics for that they have put through clinical trials, and they know that kind of treatment has helped others with your disorder in the past and is effective. You wouldn't want a doctor to use a treatment that worked 1% of the time when there's a treatment out there that could work 95% of the time. In fact, it would be called medical malpractice. Why don't we have that concept in forensics? And in Carla's case, they almost ran out of DNA when the initial lab destroyed so much of it but had no results. So if you're a detective, that's incredibly confusing because you're not a scientist, but you have to rely on a lab to test the evidence. So Yeah. I would want to have a way to make sure the lab can prove that it's effective. There's a lot in stake. There's even more than that in stake if the perpetrator is still living and hasn't aged out of crime. Identifying a perpetrator in seven years versus seven days prevents how many victims along the way? Next time on America's Crime, labor.

[Jim Walker]

And man, this guy burned alive in this boat.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

That is heinous.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

Right?

[Jim Walker]

Like there was no if, ands or buts.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

He.

[Morton Buildings Representative]

He burned up alive. I don't think people understand the magnitude of the problem.

[Glen Washington]

People don't realize that there are literally tens of thousands of bodies that are.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Not identified and will probably never get identified. They told me that he had a daughter.

[Jim Walker]

And so that's when I immediately just started thinking like, man, does she know where her dad's been this whole time?

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. Erica Lance is our story editor and sound design is by David Woje. Our producing team is Catherine Fenollosa and Jessica Albert. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne, Mangesh Hadikidur and David and Kristen Mittleman. And from iHeart, Katrina Norvell and Ally Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, Will Pearson, Carrie Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Netoski, John Burbank and the entire team at othram. I'm Alin Lance Lesser. Thanks for listening. Some dresses are for errands, some dresses are for parties, and then there's Hill House for dresses that do both effortlessly. Hill House Home is the brand behind the viral nap dress, known for its signature smocking, ultra flattering fit and comfort that makes it a favorite for just about everyone. There has never been a dress that has been more made for me than the nap dress. You can wear it at home, you can wear it outside, you can wear it anywhere and you can take a nap in it. What more do you need? Get 15 off your first order of a hundred dollars or more at hillhouse home.com with code murder15. That's murder. 15 for 15 off at hillhouse home.com goodbye.

[Morton Buildings Representative]

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Buildings winter build sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an RV boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between, take advantage of this special savings Now Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter long, but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click Get Started Today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Buildings delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[Detective Jeff Bennett]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699, the stain resistant perfect performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Every day has a to do list, but adding Enjoy Belvita to yours can help you knock out the rest of it. Belvita Breakfast Biscuits are a tasty and convenient breakfast option when paired with low fat yogurt and fruit. Fruit that provide steady energy all morning while Belvita Energy Snack bites give you the perfect mid morning refuel. Best part? They both taste great, so make the most out of your morning with a bite of Belvita. Pick up a pack of Belvita at your local store today.

[Aylin Lance Lesser]

This is an iHeart podcast.