America's Crime Lab — "The Disappeared Part 2"

Podcast: America's Crime Lab
Host: iHeartPodcasts & Kaleidoscope
Episode: The Disappeared Part 2
Date: September 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This deeply investigative episode continues the harrowing story of the Fox Hollow Farm murders—one of the most prolific and mishandled serial killer cases in American history. Through the lens of modern forensic science, family persistence, and the recent efforts at Othram—"America’s Crime Lab"—the episode explores how decades-old failures are being challenged, and new hope is found for countless unidentified victims. The story centers on the efforts to restore the identities and dignity of those lost, and the long-lasting impact on their families and communities.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Discovery and Mishandling of Fox Hollow Farm Remains

1996 Discovery: Thousands of human remains unearthed at Fox Hollow, property of wealthy business owner Herb Baumeister.
Failure to Investigate: Despite the grisly evidence, authorities did not arrest or surveil Baumeister, citing lack of resources and evidence.
- “One of the excuses that law enforcement makes at the time is, well, all of our resources were at the Fox Hollow farm, securing the property and overseeing this whole search of these remains that we really didn't have the manpower to surveil him.” (Aylin Lance Lesser, 04:44)
Herb’s Flight and Death: Herb leaves for Canada, is found dead of an apparent suicide days later. No confession or admission of the murders in his final note; police close the case.

Initial Neglect Toward Victims’ Identification

Victims Overlooked: Remains are sent to the University of Indianapolis; families are told they must pay for DNA testing if they want answers.
- "They say if you want to know if your loved one was killed at Fox Hollow, you can pay to have your DNA tested against the remains. Essentially like, we're all done here." (Aylin Lance Lesser, 09:03)
Community Trauma Exposed: Stigma against the victims, many of whom were gay men, contributed to the lack of urgency, care, and resources.

Family Tenacity Reopens the Case

Eric Pranger's Quest: In 2022, Eric Pranger, cousin of long-missing presumed victim Alan Livingston, reignites the investigation after contacting coroners to identify Alan before Eric's cancer-stricken mother passes away.
- “I ask him to bring my cousin home to his mother before she passes away. And she had terminal cancer. And that was enough right there to get Jeff listening.” (Eric Pranger, 15:26)

The Role of a Determined Coroner

Jeff Jellison Steps In: New coroner Jeff Jellison discovers the sheer volume of unprocessed remains.
- "They said, just what do we have there? And she said, 10,000 bone and bone fragments...and I said, what have I just gotten into?" (Jeff Jellison, 19:59)
Dedication to Identification: Jellison partners with Othram and other agencies, collecting DNA from relatives, testing fragments, and advocating publicly.
- “It doesn't matter if you had the staff or not. It doesn't matter. If law enforcement had the time or resources you have to make it happen. These are people, these are families. And you can't say, well, we just can't do it.” (Jeff Jellison, 21:25)

Advances in Forensic DNA and the Breakthrough

Modern Testing: With Othram’s help, a systematic identification process is built for thousands of damaged and commingled bones.
First Identification in Decades: Alan Livingston becomes the first victim positively identified via DNA after 30 years, providing closure to his family.
- “I was like, when can I come get him? Can I come right now?...It was pretty emotional. It was exciting too, to be able to shake Jeff's hand after all that hard work.” (Eric Pranger, 30:01)

Ongoing Investigation and New Challenges

Scale of the Crime: Possible 56 victims; only single intact skull recovered—Herb likely took extreme measures to destroy evidence.
Theories about Accomplices: Some witnesses describe other men luring victims to Fox Hollow and assisting during murders, widening the potential scope of the crime.
- “To have had two witnesses that came forward and told us about a young man that was shot. And he was shot by Baumeister, but he was being held and was possibly being handcuffed by two or three other people. And their accounts are almost identical.” (Narrator / Interviewee, 38:04)

The Impact of Victim Identification and Technology

Genetic Genealogy’s Power: Identification not only provides closure but uncovers more about missing people, their stories, and possibly the wider web of crime.
- “When you hide a victim, disfigure a victim, destroy a victim. And there isn't that victim identity. It's really difficult to work that crime. It's immediately stalled.” (Kristin Mittleman, 39:22)
Emotional Toll on Forensic Teams: Even expert scientists struggle with the trauma and scale of these cases.

Community Responsibility and Compassion

Caring for Victims’ Families: Jellison ensures remains are treated with dignity (offering free cremations and memorials if families can't themselves).
- “They gave them paper sacks with raw bones in them. I mean, damn it, are we so lacking in compassion that we're just going to hand them a raw bone?” (Jeff Jellison, 40:08)
Appeal to the Public: Jeff encourages all with missing loved ones to submit DNA samples, regardless of where or when they disappeared.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

The scale and horror of the crime
“This is the second largest case of unidentified human remains in this country, second only to the World Trade Center.”
(Jeff Jellison, 21:25)
Urgency vs. Bureaucracy
“I just think about urgency, you know, the bones will be there...Not to slow that down, but it does seem like a priority to get information beyond the bones. Yes, while you can, because people can move, whereas the yard is going to stay there.”
(Co-host, ~05:10)
On institutional failure
“How is like a random person supposed to fund that?”
(Co-host, 09:16)
Family grief and persistence
“Sharon has kept a landline all of these years because that was the number that Allen would call her on. So if he calls…She's like, I'm not giving up the number.”
(Aylin Lance Lesser, 14:40)
Importance of victim identity in solving crimes “Once the victims start getting identified, then it's pretty easy to connect who was connected to all of these victims.”
(Kristin Mittleman, 39:22)
On the emotional toll of forensic work “Some of these cases are so horrifying that you don't sleep. There are some that you can't. You just. You can't. And think about how many people. We're human...But the emotions that come with each one of these cases are not. It's horrifying.”
(Kristin Mittleman, 33:26)
A call to action
“If you have a missing person, call me. I don't care where they're missing from. I don't care when they went missing. You never know. Contact law enforcement, make sure that they take your DNA.”
(Jeff Jellison, 44:58)

Important Timestamps

02:36 — Initial Fox Hollow remains discovery; case background
03:49 – 05:10 — Police inaction, resource excuses, and missed opportunities
06:14 – 07:08 — Herb’s videotapes, suspicions of further evidence
07:56 – 10:07 — Case closure after Herb’s suicide; failure to identify victims
10:42 – 13:29 — Eric Pranger’s determination, Alan Livingston’s backstory
19:59 – 21:25 — Coroner Jeff Jellison realizes the overwhelming scale; commits to thorough identification
25:37 – 29:44 — Identification of Alan Livingston; emotional family closure
31:31 – 32:55 — Ongoing discoveries; destruction and burning of remains
34:09 – 36:44 — Challenges of forensic genealogy; innovative DNA methods; second identification
38:04 – 39:22 — Accomplices and the value of identification
40:08 – 41:10 — Former insensitivity toward families; increased compassion now
44:58 – 45:50 — Jeff Jellison’s final plea to families of the missing

Additional Insights and Reflections

Stigma and Social Neglect: The fate of victims from marginalized communities is doubly tragic—first in life, then in the apathy surrounding their disappearances.
Technology as a Force for Justice: Forensic genetic genealogy gives long-awaited hope to victims’ families—sometimes decades after the fact.
Ongoing Effort: The case remains open and urgent, with many more victims still to be identified and critical questions of culpability and accomplices unresolved.

For Listeners New to the Story

This episode lays bare both the heartbreaking failures and recent redemptive efforts in identifying the “disappeared” of Fox Hollow Farm. Through emotional family testimony, dogged forensic work, and a new era of accountability, "America’s Crime Lab" both pays tribute to the lost and spotlights the ongoing pursuit of truth and justice.

America's Crime Lab — "The Disappeared Part 2"

Podcast: America's Crime Lab
Host: iHeartPodcasts & Kaleidoscope
Episode: The Disappeared Part 2
Date: September 3, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Discovery and Mishandling of Fox Hollow Farm Remains

1996 Discovery: Thousands of human remains unearthed at Fox Hollow, property of wealthy business owner Herb Baumeister.
Failure to Investigate: Despite the grisly evidence, authorities did not arrest or surveil Baumeister, citing lack of resources and evidence.
- “One of the excuses that law enforcement makes at the time is, well, all of our resources were at the Fox Hollow farm, securing the property and overseeing this whole search of these remains that we really didn't have the manpower to surveil him.” (Aylin Lance Lesser, 04:44)
Herb’s Flight and Death: Herb leaves for Canada, is found dead of an apparent suicide days later. No confession or admission of the murders in his final note; police close the case.

Initial Neglect Toward Victims’ Identification

Victims Overlooked: Remains are sent to the University of Indianapolis; families are told they must pay for DNA testing if they want answers.
- "They say if you want to know if your loved one was killed at Fox Hollow, you can pay to have your DNA tested against the remains. Essentially like, we're all done here." (Aylin Lance Lesser, 09:03)
Community Trauma Exposed: Stigma against the victims, many of whom were gay men, contributed to the lack of urgency, care, and resources.

Family Tenacity Reopens the Case

Eric Pranger's Quest: In 2022, Eric Pranger, cousin of long-missing presumed victim Alan Livingston, reignites the investigation after contacting coroners to identify Alan before Eric's cancer-stricken mother passes away.
- “I ask him to bring my cousin home to his mother before she passes away. And she had terminal cancer. And that was enough right there to get Jeff listening.” (Eric Pranger, 15:26)

The Role of a Determined Coroner

Jeff Jellison Steps In: New coroner Jeff Jellison discovers the sheer volume of unprocessed remains.
- "They said, just what do we have there? And she said, 10,000 bone and bone fragments...and I said, what have I just gotten into?" (Jeff Jellison, 19:59)
Dedication to Identification: Jellison partners with Othram and other agencies, collecting DNA from relatives, testing fragments, and advocating publicly.
- “It doesn't matter if you had the staff or not. It doesn't matter. If law enforcement had the time or resources you have to make it happen. These are people, these are families. And you can't say, well, we just can't do it.” (Jeff Jellison, 21:25)

Advances in Forensic DNA and the Breakthrough

Modern Testing: With Othram’s help, a systematic identification process is built for thousands of damaged and commingled bones.
First Identification in Decades: Alan Livingston becomes the first victim positively identified via DNA after 30 years, providing closure to his family.
- “I was like, when can I come get him? Can I come right now?...It was pretty emotional. It was exciting too, to be able to shake Jeff's hand after all that hard work.” (Eric Pranger, 30:01)

Ongoing Investigation and New Challenges

Scale of the Crime: Possible 56 victims; only single intact skull recovered—Herb likely took extreme measures to destroy evidence.
Theories about Accomplices: Some witnesses describe other men luring victims to Fox Hollow and assisting during murders, widening the potential scope of the crime.
- “To have had two witnesses that came forward and told us about a young man that was shot. And he was shot by Baumeister, but he was being held and was possibly being handcuffed by two or three other people. And their accounts are almost identical.” (Narrator / Interviewee, 38:04)

The Impact of Victim Identification and Technology

Genetic Genealogy’s Power: Identification not only provides closure but uncovers more about missing people, their stories, and possibly the wider web of crime.
- “When you hide a victim, disfigure a victim, destroy a victim. And there isn't that victim identity. It's really difficult to work that crime. It's immediately stalled.” (Kristin Mittleman, 39:22)
Emotional Toll on Forensic Teams: Even expert scientists struggle with the trauma and scale of these cases.

Community Responsibility and Compassion

Caring for Victims’ Families: Jellison ensures remains are treated with dignity (offering free cremations and memorials if families can't themselves).
- “They gave them paper sacks with raw bones in them. I mean, damn it, are we so lacking in compassion that we're just going to hand them a raw bone?” (Jeff Jellison, 40:08)
Appeal to the Public: Jeff encourages all with missing loved ones to submit DNA samples, regardless of where or when they disappeared.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

The scale and horror of the crime
“This is the second largest case of unidentified human remains in this country, second only to the World Trade Center.”
(Jeff Jellison, 21:25)
Urgency vs. Bureaucracy
“I just think about urgency, you know, the bones will be there...Not to slow that down, but it does seem like a priority to get information beyond the bones. Yes, while you can, because people can move, whereas the yard is going to stay there.”
(Co-host, ~05:10)
On institutional failure
“How is like a random person supposed to fund that?”
(Co-host, 09:16)
Family grief and persistence
“Sharon has kept a landline all of these years because that was the number that Allen would call her on. So if he calls…She's like, I'm not giving up the number.”
(Aylin Lance Lesser, 14:40)
Importance of victim identity in solving crimes “Once the victims start getting identified, then it's pretty easy to connect who was connected to all of these victims.”
(Kristin Mittleman, 39:22)
On the emotional toll of forensic work “Some of these cases are so horrifying that you don't sleep. There are some that you can't. You just. You can't. And think about how many people. We're human...But the emotions that come with each one of these cases are not. It's horrifying.”
(Kristin Mittleman, 33:26)
A call to action
“If you have a missing person, call me. I don't care where they're missing from. I don't care when they went missing. You never know. Contact law enforcement, make sure that they take your DNA.”
(Jeff Jellison, 44:58)

Important Timestamps

02:36 — Initial Fox Hollow remains discovery; case background
03:49 – 05:10 — Police inaction, resource excuses, and missed opportunities
06:14 – 07:08 — Herb’s videotapes, suspicions of further evidence
07:56 – 10:07 — Case closure after Herb’s suicide; failure to identify victims
10:42 – 13:29 — Eric Pranger’s determination, Alan Livingston’s backstory
19:59 – 21:25 — Coroner Jeff Jellison realizes the overwhelming scale; commits to thorough identification
25:37 – 29:44 — Identification of Alan Livingston; emotional family closure
31:31 – 32:55 — Ongoing discoveries; destruction and burning of remains
34:09 – 36:44 — Challenges of forensic genealogy; innovative DNA methods; second identification
38:04 – 39:22 — Accomplices and the value of identification
40:08 – 41:10 — Former insensitivity toward families; increased compassion now
44:58 – 45:50 — Jeff Jellison’s final plea to families of the missing

Additional Insights and Reflections

Stigma and Social Neglect: The fate of victims from marginalized communities is doubly tragic—first in life, then in the apathy surrounding their disappearances.
Technology as a Force for Justice: Forensic genetic genealogy gives long-awaited hope to victims’ families—sometimes decades after the fact.
Ongoing Effort: The case remains open and urgent, with many more victims still to be identified and critical questions of culpability and accomplices unresolved.

wavePod

The Disappeared Part 2

Summary

America's Crime Lab — "The Disappeared Part 2"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Discovery and Mishandling of Fox Hollow Farm Remains

Initial Neglect Toward Victims’ Identification

Family Tenacity Reopens the Case

The Role of a Determined Coroner

Advances in Forensic DNA and the Breakthrough

Ongoing Investigation and New Challenges

The Impact of Victim Identification and Technology

Community Responsibility and Compassion

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Important Timestamps

Additional Insights and Reflections

For Listeners New to the Story

Transcript

Summary

America's Crime Lab — "The Disappeared Part 2"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Discovery and Mishandling of Fox Hollow Farm Remains

Initial Neglect Toward Victims’ Identification

Family Tenacity Reopens the Case

The Role of a Determined Coroner

Advances in Forensic DNA and the Breakthrough

Ongoing Investigation and New Challenges

The Impact of Victim Identification and Technology

Community Responsibility and Compassion

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Important Timestamps

Additional Insights and Reflections

For Listeners New to the Story