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Amy Robach
This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. If audiobooks are your thing or you've been meaning to listen to more of them, you should check out a podcast called earsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn.
TJ Holmes
Each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres Sci fi, comedy, romance, thrillers and more with Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to.
Amy Robach
It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great, great audiobook.
TJ Holmes
Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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TJ Holmes
Hey there folks. It is Wednesday, May 20, and a historic trial is taking place. A school administrator the first known case of a school principal being held criminally responsible for a school shooting that a student did at her school. And with that welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ the the Case Itself was obviously robes Stunning, because this had to do with a six year old. But now the assistant principal is in court facing criminal charges. The trial is underway. Robes is historic. And before we get into the details, it was kind of annoying. And what I mean by that, Rose, this. We watch a lot of trials. Yeah, it was the interruptions and the starting and the stopping. It seemed like nobody knew what they were doing and I'm not sure what they were doing.
Amy Robach
I can't even imagine being a juror on this trial because it was hard to follow the, the state. The prosecution started out with a bang. They brought their first witness to the stand and yes, it was the very teacher who was shot in the chest by that six year old. But as they started to do some direct questioning to her, the defense attorney for Dr. Ebony Parker, the assistant principal just kept constantly objecting, objecting, interrupting, objecting, and just seemed befuddled in general.
TJ Holmes
Yeah, I couldn't tell if it was brilliant legal strategy or he was incompetent and that's because I'm not a lawyer. But as far as I thought for a while he was just trying to throw the other guy off, like making sure he couldn't even get into a flow of questions or even tell a story. It was something like I'd never seen. And the question or the objection was always the same. It had to do with hearsay, hearsay, hearsay, hearsay. You can't do that. That's hearsay. And then when he got up to cross exam. We'll get into that in a second. Anyway, I just wanted to say we had a tough time at the beginning of this. Like this, this whole trial going to go this way.
Amy Robach
We kept looking at each other going, this can't continue.
TJ Holmes
It's going to. It did.
Amy Robach
It did indeed. In fact, the, the opening statements were pretty quick. As far as opening statements go, we.
TJ Holmes
This thing is flying by.
Amy Robach
Right? We have seen opening statements take almost the entire day, certainly the entire morning for the prosecution and for the defense to make their opening statements to the jury. But I thought this was effective. The prosecution said this about Dr. She didn't even get up from her desk. She didn't leave her office. Warning after warning after warning. She did nothing.
TJ Holmes
That all sounds awful, that all sounds terrible. But the defense was able to put on a bit of its case. You see the direction they're going and they're trying to spread the blame here. We'll get into that. But let's start with. I think people remember at least what we're Talking about NOW Newport News, 2023, January 6th. A six year old brings a gun to school and shoots his teacher. Shoots her in the hand, shoots her in the chest, but she survives. She put her hand up to try to block it. But again we. This was wild headline making because what in God's name a six year old is doing with a weapon? So she sued. Now the teacher is being assistant principal, being held criminally responsible. But she has won already. The teacher has a $10 million settlement in that civil lawsuit. And that brings us to now Robes, the first such case that we've seen in a system. Principal and administrator being held responsible. They said this is going to be a quick trial. Supposedly end up in by the end of the week. The judge wants to keep on track. And from what we've seen so far, you said the opening statements, we're talking, what was it, 10 minutes maybe. By the.
Amy Robach
I couldn't believe how quick it was.
TJ Holmes
And he wasn't talking that fast.
Amy Robach
No, we looked at each other. That's it, he's done.
TJ Holmes
Okay.
Amy Robach
And so yes, first up was Abby's Warner, the teacher shot by the six year old student. And I thought it was interesting, just her talking about this student two days prior. Hadn't heard this before. He actually was so angry at her while she was doing something else, he went up to her phone and slammed it and threw it on the floor. Literally broke his teacher's phone. And she wasn't sure with what any disciplinary action took place, if any at all. But he stayed home the next day. But he comes back on that Friday and this is the day that he ended up bringing a gun with him and shooting her. And it was just interesting to hear her describe his temperament and why she was so concerned. What she told Parker, what she told other teachers about her student.
TJ Holmes
This is. And they're describing, look, we've seen troubled kids, we see kids who behave badly, we've seen kids who throw fits. We see kids who are spoiled kids who do all kinds of stuff. You call them little shits. This is not anything you would imagine a six year old is capable of. The stuff they describe even before the shooting. But that violent incident, Robes with the phone and how he talks to the teachers, threatens the teachers, has taken swings at teachers. This is a different type of child.
Amy Robach
Yes. And knowing that that was his disposition already, she said, even still that day, the day of the shooting, she described it as this. He seemed off and in a violent MO. It's hard to imagine a 6 year old being in a violent Mood. But that is exactly how she described. She said he was being defiant, saying no, back to my directions. And then we start hearing. And the reason why it got so complicated with the hearsay is because she was trying. The teacher, you could tell, was really frustrated trying to explain why and what she said to Dr. Parker and to other teachers. It was all because she was being told by other students, by other teachers who overheard other students saying that this young boy had a loaded gun and showed them this gun. How do you get that testimony in if it is in fact hearsay?
TJ Holmes
But she. Look, the, the prosecutor tried carefully to handle all of this, but it got to the point he was interrupted so much. I mean he won on some of them and he lost on some. So the judge was saying overruled to some of it, sustained to the others. But Robes, it got going to the point that you felt like the witness was scared to answer. She was questions like she was the one. And the prosecutor had to stop for a second, say, hey, let us let the lawyers worry about it. You just answer. Because he's trying to get testimony to convict the woman and his main witness is scared to even speak right.
Amy Robach
And that literally happened. She didn't know how to explain how to. How she knew what she knew without trying to explain what she overheard or what was told to her. So that made it very frustrating. But ultimately she was able to, or the prosecutor was able to basically tell the jury through Zwerner that she told Parker and other teachers that the boy seemed suspicious at least on three different occasions that day. And I do think the defense did a good job in cross examination by saying, did you call police?
TJ Holmes
The defense.
Amy Robach
Yes, sorry. The defense during cross examination, my apologies. Was able to get Zwerner to admit that she could have. But she didn't. In hindsight she said, yes, I could have. But she didn't call police. She didn't ask anyone else to call police. She didn't separate the 6 year old from other students. If she thought he was a threat, why didn't he, why didn't she isolate him? So he did. At least he was able to show that she had to bear some responsibility for what happened.
TJ Holmes
So if that's the case, if she does bear some, does that mean that the assistant principal is not guilty? I don't know the policy now this is something I certainly don't. They're getting into it a little bit what the policy is, what it dictates, who's supposed to report what and whose responsibility it is to take action. If you're the first line of defense. I mean, you got her to admit on the stand who's supposed to be protecting those kids in that classroom? She admitted me. So I, I don't know, I assume this all came up in the civil trial as well. And she still won, but I, I thought at least that was effective.
Amy Robach
Yeah, and there's a higher threshold obviously for a criminal case, so it'll be interesting how effective that was or is for the jury. Now I did think there was an interesting moment when another teacher took the stand later in the day and he tried the same tactic with her because she testified that another student had told her that the six year old had a gun with bullets. And she said that when the shooting happened, that student said to her, I told you I tried to keep you safe. And under cross examination, the defense said, did you call police? And her answer was no, I called the office. When she heard from the student that the six year old had a gun, that was an effective moment. She threw it right back in the defense attorney's face.
TJ Holmes
Effectively whose responsibility is that? And this was, what was her position again?
Amy Robach
She was another teacher.
TJ Holmes
Okay. I reported it to the authority. The authority here at least is the principal. Now robes to that respect. Most Every teacher around this country knows they do not have the power. Can't suspend a kid. No, you report them to the office.
Amy Robach
Right to the office. So did you call police? No, I called the office. I thought, ooh, that was a very, very effective response.
TJ Holmes
I mean, is effective. That's the, the jury certainly going to remember that. But I do wonder how much responsibility lies where and who's, who has the authority to act. I guess they all do. If some, what responsibility is that? Some other teachers. I heard a kid has a gun, do I go look in his bag? If I do, I'll get in trouble. Let me let the administrators handle this. Yes, that sounds reasonable.
Amy Robach
And they did have other teachers up there describing basically the chain of command, what you do when you have a problem or you see suspect something could happen or something could go wrong, you are supposed to report it to your next administrator. And that's exactly what it seems happened. And that administrator that day was Dr. Ebony Parker. When we come back, we're going to tell you about the body cam footage that was introduced in court yesterday. It is chilling because this tragedy, a teacher with a bullet still lodged in her chest, by the way, that she will die with. It's in such a dangerous position, could have been far worse. And who is expected to take the stand today. If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what to listen to next, there's a podcast you should know about.
TJ Holmes
It's called earsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club.
Amy Robach
Hosted by Cal Penn, each episode takes a closer look at some of the most talked about new audiobooks on Audible, spanning a wide range of genres, from sci fi and literary fiction to rom com, thrillers and comedy.
TJ Holmes
Kyle is joined by guests who dig into what these stories are about, what makes them stand out as audiobooks, and why they're connecting with listeners right now.
Amy Robach
If you're looking for your next listen, this is a great place to start.
TJ Holmes
Listen to Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Amy Robach
Welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and tj. We are talking about a trial taking place in Newport News, Virginia. The first of its kind. A school administrator being held criminally responsible for a school shooting. A six year old first grader shot his teacher in January of 2023. Thankfully that teacher survived. She actually was the first person up on the witness stand yesterday testifying as to what happened that day. But we learned in court that this could have been significantly worse. This was terrifying to hear. We had a forensic officer who was on the scene that day right after the six year old shot his teacher. And you can see through the body cam video, first of all, you can see another teacher who stepped in bear hugging the child, basically trying to keep the child in place after the shooting, asking him if it's okay. He's spewing profanities at her. And the jurors saw this. In fact this is what he's. He said I stole that from my mom. If you want a piece of me, come here. He said that to the police officer as this officer was approaching the little boy with his body cam.
TJ Holmes
Yeah, this, this kid ain't right. Or they using the initial initials J.T.
Amy Robach
j.T.
TJ Holmes
Court. So they, they are doing this, we should let you know they have been doing it on a delay the, the, the stream at least and they are trying to protect the identities here and but Rose, where is this kid, I wonder. And then you do wonder what happened. Do you just have bad eggs sometime that go this kind of wrong or what has he been exposed to some of the things they say that that's, that's not regular language. Six year old, six year old.
Amy Robach
It's just, it's just not, that's hard to imagine. But here's the more chilling part. So the forensic specialist who he was saying this to said when they came up on the scene they found a, I don't know guns that well, but I guess a Taurus 9 millimeter pistol. It was lying there on the floor with one shell casing under the student's desk. Right. But here's the deal. The gun, I didn't hear this before. The gun had jammed and the cartridge was stuck in the slide with six more bullets that were loaded. If that gun hadn't jammed. First of all, I think it's unbelievable that a six year old knows how to operate a gun well enough to Be able to pull the trigger. But thank God the gun jammed.
TJ Holmes
Have we. I haven't seen or heard anywhere the, the height and weight of this kid. I know that sounds a little crazy because I've owned and handled guns before and think about a 9 millimeter pistol. The things you have to do. Rogues, you would, you would struggle a little bit to, to cock it appropriately to, to jam that cartridge in, to put one in the chamber, to undo the safety, to actually pull the trigger. Even takes a bit of forced and you have to know how to do that. I can't imagine he took it to school and there was already one in the chamber. I can't imagine. Did he? I don't know how this particular. I, I, I am, yes. Fascinating. That's why I ask about his size. Not just in fighting other folks off, but his physical strength and ability to pull off what he did.
Amy Robach
Yeah, well, I just know that a teacher was able to bear hug him and hold him and restrain him until police got there. So he's a little guy, he's six years old. He should.
TJ Holmes
Yeah.
Amy Robach
I don't understand how much bigger he could have been certainly. But it is unbelievable to imagine a six year old able to do that. And so today we are going to be hearing from some parents of students who were in that classroom the days Werner was shot. They're going to talk about just their fear and trepidation, trepidation, what their children said to them. And certainly this is a part of the criminal trial that these, these other children in this classroom were at risk obviously with this six year old with a loaded gun. And look, we also learned a few more details. I thought this was interesting. One of the teachers said she was able to finally convince Dr. Parker to allow her to search this child's handbag after recess because there was so much chatter. But she said she didn't even verbally say yes. She barely gave a head, nodded. So when she went to go search the backpack, the gun was already gone. And then we heard Zwerner describe this young man. The six year old had changed into a big oversized jacket and never took his hands out of his pockets. And she said she told several teachers, obviously there was a concern something was in those pockets. So the teacher goes back to the assistant principal and says, hey, can we check the jacket? She said no, bro.
TJ Holmes
Still, the thing you describe here is a kid who was smart enough, calculated enough to pull that off. That's premeditation almost. That's like I got a plan to not get caught. That's a criminal mind at six years old. The thing he couldn't avoid as a kid, I guess is to tell other kids that he had it.
Amy Robach
He was bragging.
TJ Holmes
Cool. Yeah. But this is as disturbing of a kid I've ever heard of.
Amy Robach
Yeah, I cannot imagine. I don't know what they do with a six year old like that. And by the way, his mother is behind bars. She had some other issues, but she also was charged as a part of this incident as well. So she's I think has a four year prison sentence. So the child we've just been told is in protective care and obviously is too young to be charged in this case. So we will see as we continue to follow the. Really, I mean this is just a trial like I've never seen before. And certainly to have the assistant principal be held accountable, it will. This could send ripple effects across this country with unfortunately the amount of school shootings we have seen and unfortunately will likely to still see. This puts the onus on school administration, which we have not seen yet. We've seen parents, we've seen police, and now we'll see whether or not a jury believes an assistant principal should be held criminally responsible for the shooting of her teacher.
TJ Holmes
I just. You juxtapose it now with that video. Right, the video we have all seen of that principal that got shot taking down a gunman at the school.
Amy Robach
Very different.
TJ Holmes
Where you think about your first thought is to protect. And that guy reacted and protect at the risk of his own life. And this teacher who. This principal, I don't know what was on her mind and why and is she any worry, is she going to take the stand?
Amy Robach
We do. She didn't take the stand in the civil trial, but that didn't work so well for her. So we don't know if she plans to take the stand in the, in her own defense. But you know, if you've already lost one trial, you might consider a different tactic in your criminal trial. Like she had money at stake or at least there's an insurance company who's going to be paying for that. But now her, her freedom is at stake. Five years for each count. She's facing eight counts. If she is convicted of one, it's likely she would be convicted of them all. So she could be facing up to 40 years behind bars. She is fighting for her life.
TJ Holmes
Um, let's see. But I guess if she's acquitted, remember there's just a weird deal with the, the insurance. The insurance won't pay if she gets convicted. That's the question, at least with the legal question that's out there. The insurance companies that were going to pay the 10 million to the teacher from the civil suit, if the principal is responsible because of criminal behavior, they can say, hey, we don't, we're not on the hook for it. She is. But then, Rose, if she's acquitted, that means she's not held criminally responsible for what happened, but you might get your 10 million. What do you do?
Amy Robach
Wow, there is money.
TJ Holmes
What do you do?
Amy Robach
Freedom at stake. So, yes, a lot of different and very invested parties here to see what happens. But we will continue to follow trial resumes today, expected to last through the rest of the week. We will keep you updated on this one. But in the meantime, everyone, thank you so much for listening to us. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes. We'll talk to you soon. If audiobooks are your thing or you've been meaning to listen to more of them, you should check out a podcast called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
TJ Holmes
Hosted by Kal Penn, each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres. Sci fi, comedy, romance, thrillers and more. With Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to.
Amy Robach
It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great audiobook.
TJ Holmes
Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Amy Robach
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TJ Holmes
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Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Episode: Teacher Shot By 6-Year-Old Student Testifies: “He Seemed To Be Off and in a Violent Mood”
Date: May 20, 2026
Hosts: Amy Robach & TJ Holmes
This episode covers the historic and emotionally-charged trial in Newport News, VA, where a school assistant principal, Dr. Ebony Parker, is being held criminally responsible for a school shooting executed by a six-year-old student in January 2023. The case is groundbreaking: it is the first known instance of a school administrator facing criminal charges for a student-committed shooting. The episode focuses on the trial’s opening, the teacher’s harrowing testimony, the strategy of both legal teams, and the implications of holding school officials legally accountable for student violence.
The trial is historic due to the prosecution of an administrator post-shooting, not just the perpetrator or parent.
The six-year-old student shot his teacher, Abigail Zwerner, after bringing a gun to school. Zwerner survived after being shot in the hand and the chest.
Zwerner previously won a $10 million settlement in a civil suit, but now criminal accountability is on trial for the school administration.
The opening of the trial was chaotic, marked by constant objections from the defense—primarily on hearsay grounds—making witness testimony difficult to follow.
Rapid opening statements; both the prosecution and defense used only about ten minutes each.
Defense aims to shift blame and spread responsibility among all staff, emphasizing that the teacher and others might have acted but didn’t do enough.
Abigail Zwerner testified about the student’s escalating violent behavior:
Teachers referenced chain of command: they did not feel empowered to search, discipline, or report directly to police without administrative approval.
The defense questioned Zwerner on why she didn’t call the police or separate the student herself. She admitted, “I could have, but I didn’t.”
Another teacher, when asked the same, replied: “No, I called the office.”
The show discusses the blurred lines of responsibility and the established reporting hierarchy in schools.
Body cam footage played for the jury showed another teacher restraining the six-year-old, who was verbally abusive and admitted: "I stole that from my mom. If you want a piece of me, come here."
Police found a Taurus 9mm pistol, jammed with six bullets remaining, under the student’s desk. The jam likely prevented further tragedy.
The trial’s outcome may set a precedent for school administrator liability in shootings, carrying national implications.
The assistant principal faces up to 40 years in prison if convicted on all counts.
The episode provides a riveting, in-depth look at a watershed moment in legal accountability for school shootings, spotlighting the burden placed on educators and administrators when warning signs go unaddressed. Through poignant testimony, thought-provoking legal debate, and raw details from the courtroom—including chilling audio and video evidence—the complexity and national significance of the Newport News trial is laid bare. Key insights hinge on authority, responsibility, and the possible precedent for handling future tragedies within American schools.