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Amy Robach
This is an iHeart podcast.
Cal Penn
Hey audiobook lovers. I'm Kalpen, I'm Ed Helms. Ed and I are inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
Ed Helms
Each week we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and.
Cal Penn
Greatest audiobooks from audible, listen to Earsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Earsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app.
Amy Robach
Today a GLP1 helped you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes.
T.J. Holmes
Yeah, the weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older. That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.
Amy Robach
There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and then the after after.
T.J. Holmes
Yeah, help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow.
Amy Robach
To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss. That's face after weight loss.com Black Friday.
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Amy Robach
TJ, you know how we're always slouching at our desks or on flights?
T.J. Holmes
Yeah. We're not the only Ones a lot of folks at the end of the day back feels like it's shaped like a question mark.
Amy Robach
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T.J. Holmes
That sounds like, well, magic.
Amy Robach
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T.J. Holmes
It actually moves your body into a better posture.
Amy Robach
Exactly. Invest in your health and confidence. Visit Form Science. That's f o r m e science. Or follow at Form Science and see how smart clothing can change how you move and feel. That's f o r m e science. He is living out of suitcases, lost his home to foreclosure in Baltimore, and yet he's a two time Oscar winner and he is speaking out for one of the very first times since he lost everything to the MeToo movement. We are talking about actor Kevin Spacey and man, did he have some pretty remarkable things to say. TJ this has been a seven year saga for him right now. And to go from being where he was in Hollywood to being a lounge singer in Cyprus, what an incredible fall from grace. But what an incredible story to tell with so many lessons to learn.
T.J. Holmes
It's not done yet. This story isn't done yet and lessons should be learned. He speaks, I guess in a way we haven't heard him speak in this extended interview that he did we're getting into. But you hear about lessons learned for him. There are lessons for all of us to learn in this story about jumping to conclusions, about throwing people out, about not waiting to hear both sides, about not, you know, this is, there are a lot of lessons in this, but this is a, this is a tough one to hear. And you know what? I was impressed. He sounded better than I thought. Same he would. I said, wow, he sounds like he's. Yeah, you know what, he sounds pretty good.
Amy Robach
Yes. Kevin Spacey sat down with the Telegraph and if you have not read this article, regardless of how you feel about him now as a person with the scandal that has certainly plagued his life in every way possible. But this is really one of those interesting interviews where you actually get a different perspective. And I would argue when you read this article, you might walk away feeling differently about Kevin Spacey.
T.J. Holmes
I mean this, that we don't know anything about him. I don't realize. I don't know anything about his personal life other than his scandal or his trials. I really don't. And so that I guess is part of. Right, like you start filling in blanks to where I guess that robes I contributed to his undoing.
Amy Robach
Yes, and he speaks about that in this article which is so fascinating. But I actually think it's really important to start this conversation with this fact. No criminal or civil court has ever found Kevin Spacey guilty or liable of any sexual crimes or misdeeds. I bet you a lot of people would be surprised to hear that because he has been put in a category. Maybe not as awful as someone like Harvey Weinstein, but certainly in that genre of the Matt Lauers and the Charlie Roses and all of this. But the truth is he has actually had several days in court and he has come out on top every time.
T.J. Holmes
But the stain is there. It doesn't matter. Does it matter if you're acquitted? He's walking around an innocent man and the eyes of the law. But I mean, who else, what else do you want to do? Who else knows something more than. Than that? And just the idea that you have been accused of something. And again, I guess robes, it's different if you're accused of stealing money. It's versus accused of the things we're talking about. When you're talking about sexual assault, we talk about some, any kind of a sexual crime. I guess it's going to be viewed differently.
Amy Robach
Yes. And so I actually, I was taken aback by one of the first lines of this article. I actually wrote the quote down, rang true for me. And it certainly I. It resonated with me. The cloud of scandal can blow up in a single day and take years to disperse. And that you and I have lived that. So many people have lived that in different iterations. And it just, it spoke to me. Here's a man who was a two time Oscar winner. You remember him in American Beauty and the Usual Suspects. That movie was phenomenal. And I was obsessed with House of Cards. Frank Underwood playing the President. He was in the middle of the height of his career, truly 2017. He's playing frank Underwood. Obviously he's been in plenty of other movies. 7 LA Confidential, The Social Network, Captain Phillips. I looked it up. He has 97 acting credits and 40 producing credits to his name in IMBD. This is a serious actor who has been awarded the highest award you can possibly be given as an actor. And right now he's homeless and has lost everything.
T.J. Holmes
And when I started looking more into what he actually went through in terms of the legal. His legal situation, there was a lot. And this was over years. I couldn't imagine what that cost him to keep his freedom. Right. That's what you have to do. You have to defend yourself. That was first and foremost. And he has. No way. He is an actor. This is his job. Somebody. I don't care what you're doing out there right now. If somebody told you you can't do that job anymore for anybody, the thing.
Amy Robach
You do better than almost anyone else on the planet.
T.J. Holmes
Yes. And you were awarded. You were employee of the month every month. And you, you, you just. You. That's robes. I.
Amy Robach
Devastating to.
T.J. Holmes
To what happened to him. So I guess, yeah, it started making more sense why he would be homeless.
Amy Robach
Yeah, I. He actually speaks to. So the reporter in this asked him specifically, you know, how are you doing? And he said, let's just say my financial situation is not great. And he specifically said the costs, the legal costs over these last seven years have been astronomical. I mean, if you think about it, he was at the top of his game, bringing in Gobsmacks millions upon millions of dollars. And then you. All of that goes out to pay to your point, to defend yourself to. Actually, you're purchasing in a way. You're trying to make sure you stay free. You don't want to be imprisoned. He was facing criminal and civil charges in multiple cases. So, yeah, he said, I'm in hotels, I'm in Airbnbs. I literally am living out of suitcases. I'm going where the work is. And apparently that's in Cyprus. He is actually putting on acts as a nightclub singer.
T.J. Holmes
I didn't know he. Did you know that about him. Is that a thing?
Amy Robach
He said he started singing when he was 8. His mother put on Frank Sinatra and he used to sing in the shower. And I believe there were a couple roles where he said he. He dabbled in some singing, but now he has gone full tilt and he's telling stories while he's sing playing the piano. So it's. It's kind of a night with Kevin Spacey and people are heading to Cyprus to see him. It was a packed house, I believe the reporter said he had two standing ovations, so it's kind of becoming a thing. But he said this is a place where you don't have the scrutiny of the media the way you do in the UK or in America. And so he's living a certain way of life in Cyprus right now.
T.J. Holmes
I mean, I don't mind that necessarily. We know where he would like to be and what he'd like to be doing. This guy's a stellar, stellar actor, and his talents are being wasted.
Amy Robach
Yes.
T.J. Holmes
Obviously where he is. I don't know what you do robes to get that stain off, to get that thing off of you that somebody believes about you, that didn't follow your trial every day, that didn't make as many headlines as a scandal and a retweet and comments and everybody pounding at the time does. Does. What do we do with folks who are exonerated? What do we do with folks?
Amy Robach
Well, you know, this is heartbreaking to read this article, but yet also so enlightening. It's a constant reminder to me to not rush to judgment, to not believe everything you read, to not believe everything you even see, but to give space for the fact that you might not know everything, that you might not have all the answers. And I just know how much I appreciated and regarded him as an actor. And of course, none of us would want to applaud or cheer on or watch somebody who was a convicted pedophile or somebody who had done true sexual harm to someone else. But this is somebody who has been put to the test and has been exonerated. And I actually wanted to go through what he has been through. So it was in 2017, do you remember this actor Anthony Rapp said that Kevin Spacey met a set, made a sexual advance on him. That's how it was put in 1986. So at that time, Kevin Spacey would have been 26 and Anthony Rapp would have been 14. And once Anthony Rapp made these accusations, it was in the middle. It was the height of the MeToo movement. So you didn't have to prove anything. Just say somebody made an inappropriate sexual advance towards you in 2017, and you were done. So he was fired from House of Cards and he literally has not found work since. He was also. He had just shot all the money in the world in 2017. They actually decided once these allegations were made to reshoot everything. They replaced him by Christopher Plummer. And at that point, you've been kicked off House of Cards. You've been replaced in a movie you already performed your role as. How do you come back from that?
T.J. Holmes
Didn't Plummer end up getting a Oscar nomination for that role? For some reason, I. I feel like.
Amy Robach
You might be right.
T.J. Holmes
I'm. I'm remembering that. But, yeah, they had to. They Brought him in.
Amy Robach
That movie was done, so he's done right. But guess what? The jury sided with Spacy. It took them little more than one hour to decide that he did not sexually abuse Rep. It didn't matter though, because once that case came out, then there were others to come out and accuse Spacy of what they said was ab. Improper behavior. But guess what? They took him to criminal court in London. And in 2023, the jury found Spacey not guilty of assaulting. It was four men while he was the artistic director of the Old Vic Theater there in London. They said he made inappropriate sexual advances. All we can say is that a criminal court, a jury in London said he was not criminally found guilty. He was not guilty. And then here in the US a civil court found him not liable. So then what do you do?
T.J. Holmes
Nobody wants to work with him because they're worried about what the public might say. The first person that puts him in a movie, somebody in the public, somebody is going to who didn't realize it's not going to do. Take a moment to go Google and find out that he's been not guilty and not liable. They're not going to take that moment. What they're going to do is they're immediately jump on, they're going to react with outrage and they're going to say we should boycott this movie. We should boycott this studio for putting them in. That's what they're afraid of.
Amy Robach
And so I think it's fascinating. Everybody wants to write somebody off who is one of the most talented actors on the planet who loved what he did and spent his life doing it. Since he was 8 years old, he's been performing. This was his love. So that's all taken away from him by allegations and a movement where, by the way, I don't know. No one knows what's happened behind closed doors and what Kevin Spacey did or didn't do. I just. All we can base this off of is evidence that was presented and a jury deciding in two separate occasions that there was nothing improper done by Kevin Spacey. I just like, I don't know, you think about going through your life and flirting with someone. Could someone take that the wrong way? Who knows? He admitted he said I have been too handsy. He did say that. And he said, and touching someone sexually in a way that I didn't know at the time they didn't want. So he said, yes, maybe I was touchy, maybe I was flirty, but at the time I didn't know they weren't reciprocating or they didn't want me to. So he has said that. But no one, no criminal court, no civil court has found him guilty of doing something inappropriate.
T.J. Holmes
But can you ever get past that to be embraced? Can you, can you ever get away from that thing? You remember the, the, that awful allegation against Jay Z. And that went away. But I mean, still, I, I think that was such an outrage. And I guess they were able to prove, for whatever reason that was brought to a higher level where I think.
Amy Robach
They were actually able to prove that he wasn't where she said he was or what he, where he would have had to been to do what she said he did.
T.J. Holmes
That's another. It's just allegations. You just you. So it's one thing. Fine, he's found not guilty, but it will. The thing is, who in Hollywood is going to put their arm around you and have their picture taken with you? Is the thing.
Amy Robach
He talks about this. So as I told you that this was so fascinating why he thinks this happened. And you and I have had these conversations and this resonated with me. He, he said this. He said, why was I such a good villain? Why did I fit so well into a narrative that was out there? And some of those were important questions for me to ask and to take accountability for where I made mistakes. Here's the interesting part. He said I was secretive. No one knew about me. I protected my privacy. It was Fort Knox. People didn't really know me. So it was very easy for people to stick a lot of labels on me that were just not true. You and I have talked about our biggest mistake was not being transparent. In fact, if you try to keep your private life private, people will fill in the blanks. And if there is nothing to fill in when someone says the first bad thing about you, that's what people will believe.
T.J. Holmes
Yeah. Because you got nothing to compare it to. You've got. Nobody can fight for you or defend you or speak up for you because they don't know nobody. Can we talk about you say fill in the blank that this was. And I talked about this with you plenty. And going through. All we went through had a lot to do with me at times being labeled as something that a lot of people were comfortable with viewing a black man dating a white woman to be.
Jenny Garth
Yeah.
T.J. Holmes
And so you talk. You pointed out when this, you read this article about Spacey, you were screaming through the house, you are, you, you are going to just not going to believe this because it's, this is going to resonate with you. Everything he said.
Amy Robach
Yeah. And it, it's fascinating. When we come back, we're going to talk about what Kevin Spacey said he wish he had done. And man, did this hit us very close to home and what he's hoping and what he believes will happen going forward.
Jenny Garth
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Amy Robach
Tj, you know how we're always slouching at our desks or on flights?
T.J. Holmes
Yeah. We're not the only ones. A lot of folks at the end of the day back feels like it's shaped like a question mark.
Amy Robach
That's right. Form fixes that instantly. FormScience designed smart posture clothing that trains your body to sit and stand taller than the moment you put it on. From the power bra to the power tee and even their pants and socks, every piece realigns your posture in real time.
T.J. Holmes
That sounds like, well, magic.
Amy Robach
It's science based and endorsed by Taylor Swift, Oprah, Olympians and orthopedic surgeons. Made in the USA and built for work, travel, sports or sleep. You just need to wear it and feel the body move to a better position.
T.J. Holmes
It actually moves your body into a better posture.
Amy Robach
Exactly. Invest in your health and confidence. Visit Form Science. That's f o r m e science. Or follow at Form Science and see how smart clothing can change how you move and feel. That's f o r m e science.
Ed Helms
Hey, everyone. Ed Helms here.
Cal Penn
And hi, I'm Cal Penn and we're the hosts of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
Ed Helms
This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?
Amy Robach
You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little call in Firth.
Ed Helms
Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett. Here, listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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T.J. Holmes
Or both.
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Amy Robach
A GLP one helped you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes.
T.J. Holmes
Yeah, the weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older. That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.
Amy Robach
There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and then the after. After.
T.J. Holmes
Yeah. Help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow.
Amy Robach
To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com that's faceafterweightloss.com. Continuing our conversation now about this fascinating article, we're finally hearing from two time Oscar winning actor Kevin Spacey, who is now in Cyprus putting on a lounge singing act, literally trying to pay the bills. As he says, hey, I'm homeless, I have no career. I have lost everything from accusations, all of which I have been exonerated of criminally and civilly. He's been sued, he's been charged, and juries have all found him not guilty, not liable, and yet his life, his career have been taken from him. And he talked about how, because he was so private. So before this, I didn't realize this. Did you know if he was gay, straight? He had never officially come out before these initial accusations.
T.J. Holmes
I specifically remembering being shocked, like, wait, what? No, I had no idea.
Amy Robach
I had heard rumors, but he was never, he was so private. And part of that reason was because he was gay. He did. Look, he played Frank Underwood, the President of the United States, married to the character of Robin Wright. So yes, he played heterosexual leading men. A lot of actors will tell you, as a gay man privately, you might not want to advertise that you're gay if you're playing heterosexual leading men. So he kept it private. When these accusations came out, he actually had to admit he was gay for the first time. He was outed in a way, but also being, you know, labeled the worst of the worst, a sexual predator. So he, this was so interesting. He said, do I think the media was interested in not the truth, but in creating A villain? Yes. I suppose when I look back, I wish I had spoken out sooner and allowed my voice to be heard more. I have recognized that I did certain things, I made certain decisions that I thought was protecting my work as an actor, but in fact, it was also protecting the issues that I had about myself, that I was not kind to myself about his sexual preference, his sexual identity. That makes sense. And it makes the story even sadder to me.
T.J. Holmes
That is sad. He was holding on to something. He was. And it's the thing that cost him, not being honest with everybody about who he was. But at the same time, what does he owe us? What does he owe any of us? He can live his life however the hell he chooses to do so, but he sounds like he gets it and he's been able to reflect. But that's. That is a tough, tough pill to swallow because we. We strike that balance all the time. How much do you let somebody into your life? And then once you do a little bit, then they say, well, we. We have a right to all of it. What can you protect anymore? That's tough to hear, man.
Amy Robach
It really was. It struck a chord with me. But it's so interesting you actually went there with exactly what you said. Because in the article, he talks about how he used to get annoyed. You know, he said, yeah, people would constantly come up to you and constantly want a piece of you. It's like you owed people some of yourself. And he said he had a bad attitude about it. He said, I'll be honest. But he said that he was always impressed with it. Was Jack Lemmon correct? He said that he was there with him and watching him handle people coming up to him. And he said, does that bother you? You must have been stopped so many times. He said, this is before I was famous. And he said, listen, it might be my 65th time, but it's there first. And so he said he's now remembering that lesson from Jack Lemmon. And he said the thing that used to bug him the most about fame, about people wanting to come up to him, wanting a piece of him. He reminds himself, yeah, this may be the 10th time today somebody did this to me or the Hunt, but it's there first. And he realized that part of his success as an actor and connecting with people is understanding that part of fame that he kind of threw a blind eye to and almost kind of was flippant about. But actually the relationship he says he now has with fame has completely changed. And now he's more grateful and just understanding that Other people, this is very exciting to them. And that's part of the relationship. You need to have a healthy relationship you can have with fame. It was just. He's saying it's something he's come around to after everything he's been to through over these past seven years.
T.J. Holmes
I can't imagine. I just. I. You. That compares. It made me think of something that folks on Broadway talk about all the time. Right. How many shows a week do they do?
Amy Robach
8.
T.J. Holmes
7. 8. When said it.
Amy Robach
Yes.
T.J. Holmes
And you have to repeat that over and over again. And people have traveled thousands of miles for this one moment with you. And you have to treat it every moment like it is the opening night and biggest deal in the world. And. Yeah, that idea. I mean, just the. I. I get it. Look, we. We dealt with nothing on the level of. Of him. No, but you had to be grateful and you appreciate anybody who would take the time to scream out your name or bother you in public or come over to you or anything else somebody cares enough to do. So it. It is. There's something that comes with it.
Amy Robach
Yes. And there is a happy ending to all of this. Just to see where he is with where he is in his life. And I love. He's like, I have to go. Like I did early in my career, I have to go where the work is. And right now the work's in Cyprus, and that's where I am. But he did say this, and this made me. He said, my feeling is if Martin Scorsese or Quentin Tarantino call his manager tomorrow, it'll be over. He's like, I just need one person to stand up and bring him back to life. He's like, I need one person. It has to be the right person. It has to be a big fish. But one person has to believe in me to say, I'll give you another chance and everyone will forget. And he said he believes it's going to happen.
T.J. Holmes
I hope it does for him.
Amy Robach
I do, too, because he is talented, like beyond talented.
T.J. Holmes
Beyond that. I mean, doesn't he deserve to be able to work? And he's right. It just. Somebody needs to give the rest of Hollywood permission to work with this guy. And it does. It has to be a big fish.
Amy Robach
It's. It's fascinating to think about it that way. But I. I wanted to end this on a really positive note because I think you and I, again, can absolutely understand where Kevin Spacey is coming from. Despite everything he's been through and everything, everything he's lost, he is literally living in and out of suitcases. And this is what he told this reporter. I am so much happier and more comfortable. I'm not putting a hat on and ducking out of buildings. I am walking with my head high, no glasses on my face, no hat, nothing to hide.
T.J. Holmes
Good for him. Good for him. And yeah, we'll, we'll see him back on screen. Don't know that first roll, how big it's going to be, but I'll watch it.
Amy Robach
And it was good to hear from him. Yeah, it really was love to hear him sounding good.
T.J. Holmes
He sounds good.
Amy Robach
And, and by the way, the reporter who sat through his show said it was amazing. Standing ovations. He did a meet and greet afterwards and people, he, he, he was being celebrated by this small crowd in Cyprus. And you know what? Sometimes it's good to be a, a big fish in a small ocean, especially when you've been in a lot of other environments and you've seen what the cost can be. I, I'm happy to hear he's doing well. And with that, everyone, we thank you for listening to us. We appreciate you as always. I'm Amy Robach alongside T.J. holmes. We will talk to you soon. Honestly, Honestly, honestly.
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Cal Penn
Hey, audiobook lovers, I'm Cal Penn.
Ed Helms
I'm Ed Helms.
Cal Penn
Ed and I are inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
Ed Helms
Each week we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and greatest audiobooks from Audible.
Cal Penn
Listen to Hearsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Irsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app today. Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
Amy Robach
Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.
Cal Penn
Cut the camera. They see us.
Amy Robach
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very Underwritten by.
Cal Penn
Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.
Amy Robach
A GLP one Helped you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes?
T.J. Holmes
Yeah, the weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull, sagging skin are making you look older. That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.
Amy Robach
There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and then the after. After.
T.J. Holmes
Yeah, help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow.
Amy Robach
To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com that's faceafterweightloss.com.
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Amazon Five Star Theater presents Real customer reviews performed by a real serious improv podcaster. Tonight's review Furby I bought a Furby as a nostalgic joke. Joke's on me. Day 1 Adorable giggles wiggles its ears, says me love you. Day 3 Woke me up at 3am whispering in Furbish. I think it summoned something. Day 5 I'm starting to ask it for life advice. Day 7 It blinked at me like it knew I blinked back. We've reached an understanding. I fear it. I love it. 5 stars Erin M. Find your perfect gift this holiday on Amazon.
Amy Robach
This is an iHeart podcast.
This episode centers on the dramatic fall—and surprising resilience—of two-time Oscar-winning actor Kevin Spacey. Once at the pinnacle of Hollywood, Spacey now lives out of suitcases after multiple allegations during the #MeToo movement obliterated his career, despite his being exonerated in both civil and criminal courts. Through detailed discussion of a recent Telegraph interview with Spacey, Amy and T.J. examine the personal, legal, and societal implications of his case, raising questions about justice, scandal, ostracism, and redemption.
“The cloud of scandal can blow up in a single day and take years to disperse.” – Quoted by Amy from the article (07:22)
The Anthony Rapp Accusation and #MeToo Fallout (12:19)
Exoneration Recounted
Collateral Damage
Spacey’s Reflection on His Own Privacy (18:15)
The Cost of Being Guarded Due to Sexual Orientation (24:13)
What Do Celebrities Owe the Public? (25:41)
On Lasting Stigma:
“The stain is there. It doesn't matter. Does it matter if you're acquitted? ... He's walking around an innocent man in the eyes of the law.” – T.J. Holmes (06:50)
On Public Perception:
“The cloud of scandal can blow up in a single day and take years to disperse.” – Quoted by Amy Robach (07:22)
On Allegations and Truth:
“Do I think the media was interested in not the truth, but in creating a villain? Yes.” – Amy quoting Kevin Spacey (24:13)
On Fame and Fans:
“It might be my 65th time, but it's their first.” – Jack Lemmon (relayed by Spacey, 26:25)
On Hope for the Future:
“I just need one person to stand up ... it has to be a big fish.” – Amy quoting Kevin Spacey (29:00)
On Acceptance and Growth:
“I am so much happier and more comfortable. ... I am walking with my head high ... nothing to hide.” – Amy quoting Kevin Spacey (30:12)
The hosts present a nuanced, empathetic portrait of Kevin Spacey's saga, highlighting the disparity between societal judgment and judicial outcome and the challenges of public redemption. Both Amy and T.J. stress the importance of not rushing to judgment, the insatiable appetite for scandal, and the heavy toll of privacy. The episode closes on a hopeful note, with Spacey embracing life openly, even as he waits for one person—a "big fish"—to offer him a second act.
For listeners interested in questions of justice, cancel culture, privacy, and Hollywood’s unforgiving spotlight, this episode is thoughtful, incisive, and emotionally resonant—grounded in both headline facts and human frailty.