← Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
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- [00:00]
Amanda Knox
This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP once it works for members like
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Elisa Donovan
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- [00:12]
Amanda Knox
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- [00:29]
Podcast Narrator
I'm Mike and I've lost 135 pound
- [00:32]
Amanda Knox
Weight Watchers prescribing GLP1 medications. It's been life changing. I'm Sharia and I lost 80 pounds on Weight Watchers.
- [00:39]
Elisa Donovan
I realized that it would take more than a prescription to lose weight and
- [00:42]
Amanda Knox
feel good on a GLP1. Better results, expert support, lose more weight, make it last. I can't imagine doing a GLP1 without Weight Watchers. Get started for as low as $25@weightwatchers.com GLP1 medications require eligibility and prescription patients on 15 milligrams of PRIs, appetite and an average of 21% weight loss. And a 72 week clinical trial when paired with diet and exercise. First month as low as 25 dollars for the 12 month plus plan does not include the cost of GLP medications. Amy Robach and T.J. holmes present killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.
- [01:19]
Elisa Donovan
Hey everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. Today we are talking about one of the most infamous and controversial true crime cases of the modern era. The case of Amanda Knox in November of 2003. In 2007, Amanda was a 20 year old American student studying abroad in Perugia, Italy when her roommate, 21 year old British student Meredith Kercher was brutally murdered in the house they shared. Within days the Italian police arrested Knox along with her brand new boyfriend Raffaele Solle Chito. What followed was nearly a decade of legal chaos. Convictions, appeals, retrials and a global media frenzy. Amanda spent almost four years in an Italian in prison and then only years later, years later, Italy's highest court ultimately cleared her of the murder. She is the executive producer of the Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox which revisits the investigation, the headlines and how she became the center of an international spectacle. Amanda, thank you so much for being here today.
- [02:30]
Amanda Knox
Well, thank you so much for having me.
- [02:32]
Elisa Donovan
I have to say straight away, I
- [02:34]
Amanda Knox
truly
- [02:36]
Elisa Donovan
I'm in awe of you as a human being and I just want to say that this, this series is phenomenal, that it's, it's Heartbreaking, and it's beautiful and it's magic. I just. I can't say enough great things about it, so.
- [02:53]
Amanda Knox
Oh, well, thank you.
- [02:55]
Elisa Donovan
Really, I'm thrilled.
- [02:57]
Amanda Knox
Thank you. I mean, it was a work of love for so many people who took part in it, and I'm just really. It could have been a very terrible experience. And I think that I was very held and honored over the course of the making of the whole entire series by everyone involved. And so that I'm really, really grateful for and I do not take for granted.
- [03:21]
Elisa Donovan
Yeah, it's very apparent. You know, there are a multitude of reasons why anything narrative is successful, and usually it is every piece that matters, you know, and in this case, it's so beautifully crafted and it's so unique that it's. You know, tell me about how much input you had in terms of the creativity of it and the kind of almost fantastical nature at times. It's really vibrant.
- [03:50]
Amanda Knox
That was really a. The. The inspiration for having there be whimsy and magic even was, I think, was something that I had always wanted to be a part of something like this because I, as a person have always felt, like, pigeonholed in as, like, a tragic figure, as a. As a true crime tragedy figure. And that's not who I am. That's not. You know, I'm a Harry Potter fan. Like, I. I went. I went to Italy because I wanted to become a translator of poetry. Like, I'm a very whimsical, sort of poetical person, and so we wanted that to come through. And when I was talking to our showrunner, KJ Steinberg, I mean, she's the one who really had the vision for how the show would be. And when she came to me, we were talking, like, we spent a lot of time together as we were, like, thinking about how do we approach the. The show? And something that stuck with her was that the night that all of this went down, I was with Rafaele watching my favorite movie, Amelie. And that movie itself is sort of, like, whimsical and magical in ways. And so she was like, wow, that is the stylistic approach that we want to take to represent how you approach the world. And. And we want to show that, like, when tragedy happens in real people's lives, like, it's not like you. You're prepared for it. Right? Like, my. My journey was supposed to be a magical, wonderful experience doing study abroad. And that's what my mindset was when tragedy happened to strike. And so it was really important for us to approach telling this story not in the typical way, which is like, you know, every moment feels like it's a foreshadowing of what's to come at. Like. Like, I, like the character of. Of me was completely blindsided. And so in a way, we wanted to sort of get our audience in that sort of. In that mental space of being like a young person with like, love, hopes and dreams and everything's going well and then they're blindsided. Because that's really. That's really how it feels to go through these kinds of experiences.
- [06:28]
Elisa Donovan
Yeah, no, and that's. That also helps to really explain so many of the things initially that. That were twisted.
- [06:36]
Amanda Knox
Right.
- [06:36]
Elisa Donovan
That they show images of you this, you know, in. In the press when it was in real time, whether it's hugging Rafaele or doing something. And the way images can just be twisted when you create your own story, which is what the. I mean, I remember all of this very distinctly when it was happening. And this whole series, I found it really hard to watch sometimes because it's so real and the depth of feeling and the nuance is so real. And I mean, it's almost asphyxiating at times. And it's miraculous that you didn't lose your mind entirely, completely. Like just totally lose your mind. So is it hard for you to watch the series? Like, how. What is that experience?
- [07:38]
Amanda Knox
Like, you know, what's so interesting that I found was that it was a lot harder for people who knew me to watch the series than it was for me to watch the series because, you know, I lived that very claustrophobic existence. Right. Like, I think for me, the. More the moments that really, that was the hardest for me was in the making of it. So, like, I was really concerned about getting certain scenes right because there was a lot of misunderstanding around how things were talked about later on by people who weren't there. And so I really wanted to get it right. Like, if we're putting people in the room with me, we need to get it right so that people can understand what my mindset was in this specific circumstance or that. And I remember breaking down sobbing when we finally finished shooting the interrogation. Sc because like, that scene was so important for me to get right, not just on a personal level, but also on like, on the level of just we as people do not have access to interrogation rooms. We don't really know what it's like unless we're there. And so I really wanted to get it right. And of all the people that were there filming, I was the only one who had lived through that. So, like, I was the one who's, like, really trying to, like, make sure. Okay, here's. And not just, like, from my perspective, but also, like, here's the spec perspective of the cop. They have been up for, like, 72 hours straight. They are. They are losing their minds a little bit. Like, what. What is everyone's dynamic in the room? What do people know? Versus that's really important. But, like, in terms of just watching the show in general, I found that, you know, my family or my friends who watched it, like, they knew because they had lived through it with me, what I. What I had gone through, but they hadn't been in the room with me. And that was really hard for them to watch because, like, they got so angry. Like, everyone was so.
- [09:53]
Elisa Donovan
Yes, yes. I mean, that scene is. It is devastating to. To watch. It's incredibly well done. And I want to talk about the policewoman a minute, too, but did they. Did they really hit you? Did they physically hit you?
- [10:09]
Amanda Knox
Yes. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, like, it's interesting. There was a lot going on in that room that, you know, they didn't hit me strong enough to, like, give me a concussion. It was more just like the startling hostility and aggressiveness of it that was communicated and that was already amping up through the yelling and the lying to me, like, all of that. And then, of course, that tempered with the other cop who's trying to be the nice one, who's saying, oh, no, she just doesn't remember. Please, you know, telling his colleagues, lay off her. Stop being so hard on her. Like, she just doesn't remember. Like, introducing, like, all of that was part of this, like, cocktail of overwhelming stimuli that led me to, like, not understand what was real or not anymore. And I like the fact that Grace, like Grace Van Patten, who plays me in the series, she had so much on her shoulders as an actress. Like, the. She had to portray, like, even just in that scene alone, she goes from, oh, I'm just here at the police office to answer questions, and I'm just kind of tired, and I don't really want to be answering questions anymore. Like, I just kind of want to. Like, I. All. I was just here to wait, and I. Okay, I guess I'm gonna have to answer questions. But then it starts getting like, wait a second. Why are you being me? Like, why are you mad at me? And then, like, wait, what. What do you mean? They. What do you mean? He says, I wasn't there. Like, what? What? And, like. Like, the psychological journey that she goes on in that scene is, is incredible. And she, she just portrayed it so well. She.
- [11:56]
Elisa Donovan
Let's. We, we got to talk about her for a minute. I, I don't, I don't even know what to say about this woman's performance. It is spectacular on every level. How did she come to the project? And were you familiar with her before?
- [12:14]
Amanda Knox
I was not familiar with her before, but that's also, you know, that's not unusual for me. I'm not like, I don't know actresses or actors. Like, I don't. And especially, you know, she's younger than me, so I wasn't fully aware of her. And so when she was brought to my attention, I thought, okay, interesting, let's check her out. And I saw, I watched Tell Me Lies and I was really intrigued by her ability to portray like depth of character. Like she's very good at. There are layers to her characters. And I think that the thing that really made me realize that we had like gotten it right was actually when the first time that I saw her, like just in like they're over the course of like casting and getting the people ready to get into character, there are, there's these moments where you just have the character like in costume, like they'll do, they'll just sort of like put the character in what their costume is going to be and sort of like film them being in character. Not even saying anything, just sort of being in character. And when I was, when I saw the footage of her just like being in character of me, I like I had to step back because I was like, oh my God, how did she know? Wow. You know, how did she know? Like I, it so like, like she, she had incredible instincts. She also had really good questions as an actress. So she like, she obviously had, you know, watched all these different interviews of me that are out there. But like interviews of a person are of a person in a very specific context. Yes. Right. It's not how they are when hanging out with their friends or what they are. And so like when she, when we talked about, you know, the skip in my step or this, the slight sing song to my voice or the fact like I remember her distinctly asking me, how is it that you communicate with your husband in non verbal ways? Oh, I love it.
- [14:22]
Elisa Donovan
Those are the good questions.
- [14:23]
Amanda Knox
They're so good. And so like it was really, really thoughtful character building on her part. And, and of course she had to do that for the various stages of me that she portrayed over the course of this show. Like at the youngest she plays me at 15 years old, and at the oldest, she plays me at 35. Right. And so that's a complete. And that's a person who's gone through a lot of. In the meantime.
- [14:49]
Elisa Donovan
Yes.
- [14:50]
Amanda Knox
So she had to play that transformation, and I think she just held it so well. While also speaking a foreign language, by the way.
- [14:59]
Elisa Donovan
Right. It's a pretty phenomenal performance in every aspect.
- [15:13]
Podcast Narrator
This episode is brought to you by Spreaker, the platform responsible for a rapidly spreading condition known as podcast brain. Symptoms include buying microphones you don't need, explaining RSS feeds to confused relatives, and saying things like, sorry, I can't talk right now. I'm editing audio. If this sounds familiar, you're probably already a podcaster. The good news is Spreaker makes the whole process simple. You record your show, upload it once, and Spreaker distributes it everywhere. People listen. Apple podcasts, Spotify, and about a dozen apps your cousin swears are the next big thing. Even better, Spreaker helps you monetize your show with ads, meaning your podcast might someday pay for, well, more microphones. Start your show today@spreaker.com spreaker because if you're going to talk to yourself for an hour, you might as well publish it.
- [16:07]
Elisa Donovan
This is hard to discuss because I remember thinking, this person. You also went through the major trauma of losing a friend, and it seemed as though you were never even given an opportunity to grieve that person. And it's such a specific relationship you had that was new and young, and that thing where you can bond sort of immediately with someone. And so can you talk a little bit about that? Like, how. How did you. Were you ever able to even grieve Meredith?
- [16:44]
Amanda Knox
That's a really great. Thank you for pointing that out because a lot of people who have talked to me in the past have sort of forgotten that part of how, like, I lived in a bedroom right next door to this. This young woman's bedroom. We borrowed each other's clothes, we went grocery shopping together, we baked cookies together. Like, I didn't know Meredith for very long, but we were very close in the short amount of time that we got to know each other. And so coming home to discover that she had been raped and murdered in her own bedroom after someone had broken into our home was just, like, catastrophic. And, and honestly, just, like, so, so overwhelming in the moment that, like, I. I sort of, like, disassociated and, like, couldn't believe it was happening. And I think. And you're right. Like, when I was in the midst of, Like, I didn't have time to process. Like, as soon as the crime scene would. Was discovered, suddenly I was in. I was like, in a police investigation. And, like, at the, Like, I was like, I. No one was sitting me down with a therapist to, like, say, how are you feeling? That was not what was. I did not get any of that kind of support. I got, you know, who does she know? What did you see? Like, I was just, like, sort of bombarded with, like, okay, now I'm part of a police investigation. Like, I'm process. Like, I'm just trying to sort of output what is being asked of me.
- [18:21]
Elisa Donovan
And at this point, you didn't speak Italian very well or you didn't speak fluently? Certainly at that point.
- [18:26]
Amanda Knox
Yeah, no, like, I could. I could say things like, do vela biblioteca. Like, where is the library? Like, I'm not, you know, I'm not. I'm not remotely fluent. And so I'm attempting to communicate with people who don't speak the same language as me. Sometimes there's an interpreter, sometimes there isn't. Like, I'm just doing the best I can and. And I'm not sleeping. I'm being questioned for, you know, 10 hours a day. Like, it's just so no time to process. This person is gone in my life, and then I'm in prison, and I'm suddenly in survival mode for the next eight years of my life. And in a way, one thing that this show really allowed me to do was grief. Like, I didn't. I didn't really know that that was going to be a big part of it. But, like, even when talking with KJ Steinberg, who, again, is just. Was the most incredibly thoughtful and. And, like, soulful person to work with. And actually Monica, too, because Monica Lewinsky, who EP ed on this project, like, she understands from her own life how, like, being at this, you know, at the center of a firestorm means that there is, like, collateral damage that impacts tons of other people. And so, like, for. For Monica, it was really, really important that we fully dimensionalize my family, Rafaele. Rafaele's family, because these are all people who aren't the ones who are in the headlines, but who are absolutely having their lives turned inside out because of what is happening. And then for kj, like, she's looking at this like, well, here's two young girls who went to go study abroad, and only one of them survived. And, like. And then the other one, in a way, was forgotten. And so, like, a Part of something that was so important to KJ was to show who this young woman was. And we. We have this incredible British actress who played her, and it just, like, shows. We show her in those, like, quiet moments that, like, I got to. To interact with her, you know, like when we're. When we're sort of goofing around in the bathroom giving me a little temporary tattoo or when we're going out to the flea market together and eating ice cream, like, those are, like, the real moments that I got to witness. This young woman who had her whole life ahead of her, and. And we, like, end the series on me going back to my house to say goodbye, which I never got to do.
- [21:14]
Elisa Donovan
You know, that is an incredibly. I was very moved, as I said, by so much of this series. And those moments, like, I just. They're stunning and. Yeah. Sorry.
- [21:36]
Amanda Knox
No, I mean, it's. It's not fair. It's not fair that the world got to know Meredith as a corpse.
- [21:46]
Elisa Donovan
Right.
- [21:47]
Amanda Knox
You know? Right.
- [21:48]
Elisa Donovan
I mean, this is really. You get to do her. This. This service. It is very much a. You feel that she was a very vibrant person. Like, you feel a real personality and a. And a spark to her.
- [22:06]
Amanda Knox
And
- [22:09]
Elisa Donovan
do you know if her family has seen the series or if they do see it? Do you. Do you hope they do? What do you hope they see in it?
- [22:19]
Amanda Knox
Yeah, I really hope they do. I do know, though, that at least the last I heard, when it was announced that we were filming and developing the series, I think it was their attorney who spoke out. And their attorney has always been incredibly negative towards me. He's. He's never really. He's never acknowledged my innocence, for one thing. And he's. He. The way that his attorney has always framed it is that concern about me and, like, was at the expense of concern for Meredith. And so he sort of blames me for Meredith being forgotten in the midst of all of the scandal.
- [23:05]
Elisa Donovan
This is, like, another part of this that just infuriates me. And for you trying to, you know, tell your own story, you didn't ask for any of this. You didn't create these false stories that the media really did. And then the prosecution just ran with. And do you. So let's talk about the. You know, there's a lot of talk about the main prosecutor, Manini, but there are also several women that were a part of the. The police team and the prosecutorial team. Right. And it. In the series, it certainly makes it seem as though the female policewomen, they assumed your guilt from the beginning. Can you. Is that accurate and what do you think that's about?
- [23:59]
Amanda Knox
Yeah. So one thing that was really important to me, and this was something that we were discussing early on, especially when we were talking about casting and how do we portray my prosecutor and the police around him. And one thing that I really fought for was to not show him just sort of operating alone, because he wasn't. He didn't operate alone. He absolutely was. He was in charge. He was the one who was in charge of the investigation, but he was. He was depending upon a team of people who also influenced his decision making. And that team of people had a number of very influential women in it. Like the head of the homicide division in the. AT In Perugia was a woman, and she, you know, I was interrogated primarily by a woman. So I think it was really important to, like. I think the way that this story has been told is, like, in the past has just been, oh, one misogynistic guy. Right. Do, you know, took over this case. And it's like. Well, it's more complicated than that. Like, if you buy into the premises that they make, like the fact that only a woman would cover another woman's body with a blanket, you can logically deduce a lot of the stuff that they logically deduced. The problem is their premise. And that is where I think it's a really interesting examination of, like, people didn't. It's not like people just made up stuff maliciously. They made up stuff that made sense to them without realizing that they had. They had drawn a conclusion that was wrong from the very beginning.
- [25:44]
Elisa Donovan
From the beginning, Right.
- [25:45]
Amanda Knox
Yeah.
- [25:45]
Elisa Donovan
Like, based in zero evidence. Because that's what I think was so confusing. Reading about in the papers and things, I remember always thinking, but wait, wait a second.
- [25:56]
Amanda Knox
Why did she do this?
- [25:58]
Elisa Donovan
Like, it never made any sense there. It never made any logical sense. Unless, of course, you know, you were a psychopathic killer, you know, so it never made any logical sense. But that this idea that once something is said and it's put into the pipeline, it's impossible to unravel it. And then it's like it just kept.
- [26:23]
Amanda Knox
Yeah, that's an. Yeah, like the. I think the engine of the series. And like the theme. Like the great theme of the series is something that K.J. steinberg came up with, which was the anatomy of bias. Like, how. How does. How do you. How do you derive this story from certain biases? And what is the difference between a fact and an opinion? Like, that is like the key thing because Again, like, if you. If you're. If what you. Like if what you see is a body covered with a blanket, you could.
- [26:59]
Elisa Donovan
That.
- [26:59]
Amanda Knox
That is a fact. There's a body. It's covered with a blanket. An opinion is that only a woman would cover that body with a blanket. But if you think your opinion is a fact, then that. That leads to a whole, like, body of work. That sure does. Right. And like, that. That is the key thing. So it doesn't take, like, an evil mastermind to come up with these false stories. It just takes someone who doesn't recognize that they're the difference between an opinion and a fact.
- [27:30]
Elisa Donovan
And a fact.
- [27:31]
Amanda Knox
Right.
- [27:45]
Elisa Donovan
Do you think there is a general bias against American women in this. It's a very provincial culture in this tiny town in Italy.
- [27:55]
Amanda Knox
Yeah. So, you know, I do think that that played a role. So Perugia, Italy, is a small town. It also is a student town. It has a student population that is quite significant. There are two universities in this small town, and a lot of the foreign students who come to stay there are only there for, like, three months. So I was actually scheduled to be there for a whole year, for nine months. I was there for a school year. So I was going to be there much long. And I was more prepared to. To, like, really settle in and, like, create relationships. But, like, there is. And I think this is true of young people, like, with. It was. For some people, their study abroad experience is a little bit like an extended spring break. Right. Like, everything's just a little bit more. Like you're doing a little less homework and having a little more fun. And so, like, there was this kind of assumption, or it was a very easy thing for people to. To sort of do was to say, oh, here's an American girl gone wild. Like we've seen on all of the Girl Gone Wild tapes, who. Who, now that she's out of the United States, has become unhinged and has orchestrated a murder orgy. Like, Right.
- [29:15]
Elisa Donovan
It's like that jump from A to triple Z. Like, I don't. That was.
- [29:23]
Amanda Knox
I think there was also a little bit something that I was not prepared for, which was an American girl is considered exotic in Italy. Like, I. Like, I. I've never in my life, you know, in Seattle been treated or considered exotic. And so suddenly to suddenly be. Oh, like, that was just like, what are you talking about? Like, I. Right. So that, like, that level. I just, like, didn't understand that. And I think that that also played a role in the. In the hyper sexualization of Me at like. And the eroticization of a young person was because I was exotic and other.
- [30:11]
Elisa Donovan
And do you think things got better? It seemed as though. Did they get better once you started to really learn and speak Italian, do you feel like that had a.
- [30:19]
Amanda Knox
Define better?
- [30:21]
Elisa Donovan
Well, yeah, I mean, because by the
- [30:25]
Amanda Knox
time, you know, by the time I was two years in, and I was, you know, two years into my trial, I was fluent in Italian by then. But that's when I got convicted. Like the train had already left the station and there was little to nothing that I could do about it. Once I became fluent, it did mean that I was able to better navigate my life in prison. Absolutely. And I was better able to express myself in a court of law. But like I was trying to dig myself out of a grave at that point. Like, I. There was already so much stacked against, to me that little old me speaking quasi fluent Italian. Like it's. There was still the problem of people not believing me that part. I.
- [31:20]
Elisa Donovan
Well, two things. One, the. The legal system in Italy is diametrically opposed to the American system. And you know, I always feel like, oh, our legal system is so flawed in so many ways. And then I see this and I say, holy crow, it is far better than what was going on there. Like, can you talk about that? Were you aware of how the, the botched DNA, that nothing, there was literally no evidence that actually placed you there, aside from the fact that you lived in that house. So of course your DNA would be in various places. But were you aware of how sort of outrageous this, this was the way the trial was going?
- [32:12]
Amanda Knox
So no. And, and to be fair, like, I didn't know really anything about our judicial system either. Like, I, again, I was a 20 year old kid who was into Harry Potter. Like, I didn't, I was, I was not watching csi. I was not watching Law and Order. That was just not, that wasn't so. Like I, I was the most ignorant person approaching these systems that were way more powerful and way bigger than me. And so it was an education. It was an education for me as I was going through it. And then it became an education for me after I came out and I was able to learn more about our system and compare the differences. But like, it was amazing talk. It was also an education for again, KJ Steinberg, our showrunner and the writers of the series, because they also had to like, learn about these like, interesting little, like specific, weird little things about the Italian system that are not over here in the US And I think that that absolutely deserved The Amelie treatment, like, when, you know, like, yes, that great scene of sort of, like, going through the courtroom and being like, okay, who's that guy? Who's that guy? What's going on here? And. And so the fact that, like, criminal cases are tried at the very same time that civil cases are tried and that evidence that can be used for the civil trial cannot be used for the criminal part of it, but the jury is supposed to be able to hear both and be able to determine which one is relevant. Like, that. That is just something that would be inconceivable here in the United States. And just the overwhelming. Like, you're in a courtroom, and there's not just a prosecution, there's all of these lawyers that are civil attorneys who are acting as prosecutors. So you're just like, you know, there's like, five prosecutors against one, you know, one or two defense attorneys. Right, right. Like, yeah, it's. It's wild. But, you know, like, to be fair here, I don't know if you're curious about this or not, but there is something.
- [34:13]
Elisa Donovan
I'm sure I am.
- [34:14]
Amanda Knox
Well, there's a. There's an interesting tweet. Oh, of course. The other major difference between the Italian inquisitorial system and our adversarial system is that prosecutors in Italy are. Are less. They're not considered biased. They're. They're considered, like the first judge. And that's why the judge, like, that's why they are in charge of investigations is because they're the ones who are supposed to be, like, judging what the police are doing and guaranteeing, like, the, you know, the. The legality and the human rights of what. How the investigation is unfolding. But. And, like, if you were to ask my prosecutor, he says, well, that's a. That's much better than the adversarial system, because I'm. I'm unbiased, but I'm like, dude, you are so biased.
- [35:07]
Elisa Donovan
You're so biased. What do you. What do you think is biased?
- [35:10]
Amanda Knox
You think you're not biased? Like, you're the. In charge of the investigation. Whereas, like, in our system, there's a little more separation between the police and the prosecution. The police build the case, then they present it to the prosecution, and the prosecution has to determine whether or not it merits being brought forth in a trial. Now, of course, there's also bias in that because police work very closely with prosecutors. There's like insider blah, blah, blah. Like, the system isn't perfect. But an interesting thing that the Italian system does, which I think is unequivocally better than here in the United States, is that all verdicts in Italy have to be motivated. So what that means is that a verdict is handed down, and then the jury and the judge have to write a document explaining why they came to a specific verdict. They have to say, this is the evidence that we looked at. We found this testimony to be reliable, this testimony not reliable. We believe this expert, not that expert. And what that does is it allows you to take that document and then go, well, that doesn't. You know, that's not logical, or that doesn't make sense, or that testimony recanted, whatever it may be. It's not like this sort of sacred and secret mystery that you have to guess about when you. When you appeal something here in the United States, the jury's decision is secret and sacred, and all you can know about how they came to their conclusion is the verdict. That's it. So, like, that's a huge difference, that. Right. And I think the possibility of correcting an injustice is made easier by the fact that there is a document that explicitly lays out, here's how we came to our determination. And then someone later on can come and say, well, I have evidence to the contrary. Right, right.
- [37:09]
Elisa Donovan
That is. I mean, we could use a little bit of. Of that, for sure.
- [37:13]
Amanda Knox
It's transparency. I mean, it's just transparency. Right? Yeah.
- [37:18]
Elisa Donovan
All right, we're going to leave it there for today. But there is much more of this fascinating conversation with Amanda Knox still to come.
- [37:34]
Amanda Knox
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.