Aubrey O'Day: Cassie's Cross Examination

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present: Aubrey O’Day Covering the Diddy Trial

Episode: Aubrey O'Day: Cassie's Cross Examination
Release Date: May 17, 2025
Hosted by: Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes
Guest: Aubrey O’Day – Former member of Danity Kane, television personality, and Diddy's former protege.

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1. Introduction

In this compelling episode of Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present: Aubrey O’Day Covering the Diddy Trial, hosted by Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes of iHeartPodcasts, former Danity Kane member Aubrey O’Day joins to offer her unique perspective on the high-profile Sean "Diddy" Combs trial. The episode delves into Cassie Ventura’s cross-examination, providing deep insights into the trial that has captivated the nation.

Notable Quote:

Amy Robach [00:06]: "We have Aubrey with us to talk about what's going on with the Sean Diddy Combs trial. And Aubrey certainly has perspective like no one else."

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2. Initial Impressions of Cassie’s Testimony

Aubrey O’Day begins by sharing her initial impressions of Cassie Ventura’s testimony, describing it as honest, open, and vulnerable. She emphasizes the horrifying nature of Cassie's experiences and commends Cassie for her evolution and bravery in coming forward.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [00:47]: "It feels very honest. It feels very open, vulnerable, horrific."

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3. Emotional Impact of Testimony

The discussion shifts to the emotional toll Cassie’s testimony has taken on listeners and the hosts themselves. Aubrey expresses empathy, relating to Cassie’s feelings of being loved yet manipulated, highlighting the complex emotions involved in abusive relationships.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [03:48]: "That she felt so loved in his company and she felt he made her feel unlike anyone else. That was a hard listen."

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4. Dynamics Between Cassie and Diddy

Aubrey analyzes the manipulative tactics used by Diddy, referring to them as grooming behaviors. She discusses how Diddy’s control extended beyond sexual abuse into emotional and psychological manipulation, making it difficult for victims to break free.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [02:47]: "That's a statement that groomers make... It's like training a child."

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5. The Courtroom Environment and Public Perception

The hosts and Aubrey talk about the public's reaction to Diddy’s presence in the courtroom, noting that despite widespread support, there are still significant numbers of defenders. Aubrey expresses frustration over the skewed public perception fueled by media narratives.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [16:12]: "He was there, so don't go on X."

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6. Cassie’s Personal Struggles and Support Systems

Cassie testified about her severe emotional struggles, including suicidal thoughts, and how her husband Alex Fine played a crucial role in supporting her. Aubrey relates personally, sharing her own experiences with similar feelings of despair and the importance of having a support system.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [18:53]: "I've had many times where I felt that way."

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7. Diddy's Influence and Control

Aubrey discusses Diddy’s extensive control over the environment, including the orchestration of “freak offs” and the meticulous attention to visual aesthetics. She highlights how Diddy’s personality and demands created an atmosphere of fear and manipulation.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [10:16]: "He also made music videos all the time... he would get on set, if he wanted everything a whole different way."

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8. Summary of Charges and Legal Proceedings

The conversation provides an overview of the charges against Diddy, including racketeering conspiracy and multiple counts of sex trafficking. Aubrey affirms that several charges have been proven, though she expresses skepticism about the jury's impartiality given the composition.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [36:20]: "Yes. Thank you."

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9. Critique of Diddy’s Musical Career

Aubrey critiques Diddy’s music career, questioning the authenticity and independence of his work. She points out that most of his hits feature other major artists, implying that Diddy's own contributions may be less substantial than perceived.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [39:47]: "If you can't name a ton of songs... then maybe we should be careful about the ways in which we see him."

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10. Reflection on Aubrey’s Own Experience

Aubrey shares her personal journey, including her firing from Danity Kane by Diddy, and how she sought healing by moving to Bali. She discusses shedding the trauma and striving to protect her truth amidst industry lies and manipulations.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [47:08]: "I moved to Bali for a while to heal from a lot of the trauma..."

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11. Conclusion and Tease for Next Episode

The episode wraps up with Amy and TJ expressing their gratitude to Aubrey for her insightful contributions. They tease future episodes, hinting at even more revealing discussions.

Notable Quote:

Aubrey O'Day [48:26]: "Wait till we get to the urination."

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Key Themes and Insights

• Manipulation and Grooming: Aubrey highlights the psychological tactics used by Diddy to control and manipulate Cassie and others, drawing parallels to grooming behaviors.

• Emotional Complexity: The testimony reveals the intricate emotions victims may feel, such as love intertwined with fear and manipulation.

• Public Perception vs. Reality: The podcast underscores the disparity between how Diddy is publicly perceived and the darker realities unveiled in the courtroom.

• Personal Trauma and Healing: Aubrey's reflections provide a personal lens on dealing with trauma and the importance of seeking healing and truth.

• Industry Exploitation: The discussion sheds light on the broader issues of exploitation and manipulation within the entertainment industry.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a profound and personal exploration of the Sean "Diddy" Combs trial through the eyes of Aubrey O’Day. Her firsthand experiences and candid reflections offer listeners a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding Cassie Ventura’s testimony and the broader implications for those involved in the entertainment industry. The podcast sets the stage for ongoing coverage, promising further revelations and in-depth analyses in future episodes.

Transcript

[Amy Robach]

Amy and TJ presents Aubrey o' Day.

[TJ Holmes]

Covering the Diddy trial.

[Amy Robach]

Welcome, everyone, to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey o' Day. I'm Amy Robach alongside my partner, TJ Holmes. And we have Aubrey with us to talk about what's going on with the Sean Diddy Combs trial. And Aubrey certainly has perspective like no one else.

[TJ Holmes]

Absolutely. But we're gonna get into some of the details from, of course, the star witness, Cassi Ventura. But can you just give me your initial impression? Because so many of us have heard this testimony and your jaws are dropped. But give me your impression of what we've heard so far and how she's doing. We'll get into some details, but just initial impression of how she's done.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Initial impression. From what I'm able to read in the transcripts and from people that I have giving me information in court is. It feels very honest. It feels very open, vulnerable, horrific. Sometimes I hear her discuss things that she did then and how now she would never. She understands it differently. And that makes me feel, like, so happy for her that she's come, you know, because I don't know her as a mom. So, like, to understand that she made that evolution and went to the other side of viewing all of it made me feel, like, really proud of her. It's horrific that. It's horrific that she had to go through. Go through so much. You know, there was one part of the testimony that was so telling. It's not even anything anyone's really touching on, but there was a transcript that I read that went something like, like, you know, I don't really. Or can we talk? I wanted to bring something up to you. And he's like, okay, yeah, you know, you don't want to do the freak off now. You so predictable. That's a very. It's a statement that groomers make. If you've ever dated anyone that doesn't really love you and is, like, abusive usually, and pushing you into things it doesn't even have to be sexual. It could be anything they want you to do. It's like almost training a child, right? Like, oh, you wanna bring up this? You so predictable. Like, you're just like the rest of em. And then you get that feeling as a woman to be like, no, wait, I'm not, I'm not, I promise you. Then talk yourself back into an idea. Same way when she was brutally abused in that hallway, him writing her, I'm about to get arrested. The police are here. They've already testified to the fact that there was no arrest and there was no police arresting him. That was to get her to come back. That was. It's control, coercion, it's grooming. It's all pieces of many things that make me really understand how much manipulation was involved in getting her to activate the emotions that he wanted her to project.

[Amy Robach]

Aubrey, so many of us who have been listening to Cassie's testimony have been shocked. I mean, we had heard like, just general details about what she might say, but to actually hear her go into descriptive detail about what she says she experienced over a decade. Was there anything she said in these last several days of testimony that surprised you, that shocked you?

[Aubrey O'Day]

No.

[Amy Robach]

Wow.

[Aubrey O'Day]

No.

[Amy Robach]

What was the hardest thing to hear from her?

[Aubrey O'Day]

That she felt so loved in his company and she felt he made her feel unlike anyone else. And so she would do these things because it was the only time and chance that she got to really see spend in that feeling. That was. That was a hard listen. Because I think any woman that's ever cared for somebody that may not have that ability or desire to has pandered in one way or another. Whether it's a sex party or bringing themselves down to certain levels that no woman should have to emotionally saying things, utilizing whatever tool any woman finds herself having as valuable or has been told. Because you have to remember, women see ourselves through the projection of men. You know, since we're young kids, since we're young girls, we're kind of groomed into these social ideas and norms. I mean, shit, I just turned 41 and people are saying to me, oh, so you didn't want kids? Well, honestly, I'm just getting to an age where I'm finally free from a lot of chaos and could start thinking about that. I realize that that's troubling for everybody else because it's geriatric and whatever, all the titles. But actually, yeah, I do. I've always wanted kids, but the answer is already decided for me. When somebody comes to me, there's so many social norms that women just accept. And in that instance, I just know that I know what it feels like to yearn after somebody that I really loves. Attention. And there probably were a lot of ways that I have compromised. No, let me not say probably. There are many ways that I have compromised myself. Not in the same ways as Cassie necessarily, but I don't judge her. Compromise. A compromise is a compromise. When you compromise yourself, you're doing the same damage. It really doesn't matter in what area. It's all the same. That knowledge of understanding how we compromise for people's love is something I believe that will resonate just with everybody. It certainly had me going through all my relationships like, wow, I thought this relationship was something like this. And I've always narrated it and believed it to be so. But as I start to think about it, there were times that I yearned for this person's attention and there were, there were ways that I was not true to myself in order to get it. And it's because of all kinds of things for me, you know, a bad childhood, not ever feeling like anyone would fight for me. I don't have a mom and dad or anyone to call. And because I spent from my young days to 41 being in this industry, I didn't. It's not like I made a good friend like a group of girlfriends while my. While my friends were doing that in their 20s and 30s, I was uber famous. So it's not like I have this group of friends that I even go to. So it's just a. I don't know. That was the part of the testimony that really like stood out to me as being as really making me recall a lot of times that I have done that.

[TJ Holmes]

I don't know if you saw us both react. We looked at each other because we were. I think we both got tears in our eyes reporting on that this week. That was the moment that was most chilling is to hear all the horror. But for her to say the highlight of a freak off was she just enjoys spending time with him. That was tough.

[Amy Robach]

That jumped out at us too. So when you said that, we both said, wow, we had the exact same reaction.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And remember what I said to you last time? There's nobody else that I would want to revisit more than him. When he is proud of you and when he gives you his attention and thinks that you're great. And if you notice in her testimony, she says, I don't know what the first freak off was. I was drugged. It was weird. I felt dirty. I felt embarrassed. But then he was really proud of me and so I felt good. I understand all of those emotions in regards to that man. It's so. It's something so many of us can.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay, help us with. And how does it play into the story? A lot of us didn't know it. She was 19 when they met. He kissed her. She said he testified at a birthday party. She said it was unwanted. At the time, she wasn't comfortable with the idea of dating him. What do you make of. I don't know if you Knew that story already. But what do you make of hearing that and how it now played into, I guess, the rest of their relationship?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think it would probably be very, you know, I've dated somebody in a very compromising state and position that wasn't necessarily fully open to the world. And so I kind of had to play along with whatever the narratives were. And there's an exhilaration there. The lifestyle that Diddy lives is so extreme in every way. I think that that could have been. There could have been like an excitement there, There could have been a fear. There could have been like, you know, butterflies in your stomach when somebody that powerful wants to experience you in that way. I don't know how she testified to feeling about it. I think she just was like, whoa, that happened. Like, I don't. I didn't see that it was bad or good in the testimony. I'm not sure if I missed something, but I think it probably. It probably made her feel that like, of everybody around, he wanted her, which maybe made her feel like she was very special.

[Amy Robach]

You've talked about all the people around Diddy who were there to make sure he had his every need met. When you heard Cassie testify about all of the people who supplied the drugs, the baby oil, who all had to be a part of creating these freak offs or at least the ambiance around them. The lighting had to be correct. The hotel rooms had to be very.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Ditty, very Scorpio, very visual.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. Were you aware, like, I know that you said you weren't surprised by her testimony, but did everyone know that this was all going on, that these freak offs and these sex parties were happening? And apparently there had to have been so many bottles of these, of this baby oil around that. I mean, that was a big headline obviously early on, but you start hearing about just how much and why he wanted it. And was that all common knowledge?

[Aubrey O'Day]

So I never witnessed a big room of baby oil in my time there, but on set we were to be lathered and shining. You know, they always used either baby oil later on down the line. Olive oil spray can make you like shine, shimmer to me. I still use it when I do photo shoots because it was a great tool to learn during my time in the beginning making music videos. And when you shine, it looks better on camera to me. All of that plays into these visual aesthetics that were pleasing enough for him to be sitting in the corner and jacking off to it.

[TJ Holmes]

You know, I haven't heard somebody put. You made a good point. I hadn't thought about in all these videos, it wasn't just, you think it's a part. Yes. It's a part of sex. And maybe they're slipping and sliding, having a good time. Do your thing. But you're saying it's for production value to it that I hadn't thought about it like that.

[Amy Robach]

He was almost creating his own porno.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yes. He also made music videos all the time. I mean, this is a man that lived and breathed in the creative space and produced albums and records and music videos and all of the above. I mean, he would come on set whether we had a full blown director and everything else. And when he got on set, if he wanted everything a whole different way, that's what had to happen.

[Amy Robach]

Okay. And so to that point, we heard Cassie talk about and she said even a facial expression, the wrong face, could set him off into a violent face.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Absolutely, accolutely accurate.

[Amy Robach]

You saw that?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yes. Experienced it many times.

[Amy Robach]

It was directed at you.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was on camera. You can watch making the band and see a few moments where just a face created a reaction that was abusive.

[TJ Holmes]

Did you always, in an argument or back and forth like that, get to some point where you felt physically threatened after seeing something like that? If everybody wasn't in the room and it was just you two, maybe it would have felt a little different, but it felt physically intimidating.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yes.

[TJ Holmes]

Would everybody have that experience who's been around him?

[Aubrey O'Day]

No, because he wasn't interested in everybody. There were people in my band that he didn't really spend much time even learning their names sometimes.

[Amy Robach]

I'm curious. I was kind of impressed, actually, at how much you pushed back with him.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. That was not something that anyone in my group did.

[Amy Robach]

So that was what I was gonna ask. Were you a. I mean, you ended up getting pushed out of the band.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Because of him, fired on national television and blamed for the entire demise of not only Danity Kane, but the series that was on for seven seasons on making the band on the biggest network at the time that everyone fell in love with. And to this day, if you look it up, it's Aubrey o' Day fault.

[Amy Robach]

And would you say that that was because you stood up to him? You. You said what you wanted. You actually were speaking your truth and he didn't like that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think that as things come out and when I'm not exclusive, that you'll be able to read documents that suggest exactly what his problem with me was and exactly what he wanted me to do or I was not needed.

[TJ Holmes]

Cassie's husband has been Sitting in the courtroom listening to all of this, I couldn't imagine doing. So I think he had to walk out at certain points when she described a. She said he allegedly raped her, that he did. Just. What's your take on him? I don't know if you know him or been around him at all, but take on her having to do this in front of her now husband that she's about to have a child with.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think the response of people online is disgusting in that regard, saying like, oh, what man would want. He must be memes of an embarrassed guy or whatever. Uh, God, it makes me sick seeing people interpret it like that because I don't think there's anyone on earth that loved her more. She was able to finally get away from all of that that she was in because she fell in love with her trainer that Diddy got her. That's who Alex Fine is. He probably showed her a gentle, soft, kind love. He probably mirrored back to her. Because that's what we do as partners. Right? That's why you stop loving sometimes a partner that you're with contractually in front of the world or not. You stop being able to mirror back something that you want to see. And then all of a sudden, you go to work one day and somebody's mirroring you and you feel kind of good and you kind of like yourself again, and you think you're neat and they think you're neat. We are mirrors for each other. Personal relationships are simply, in my opinion, necessary for sure, because it's the only person that you're getting that vulnerable with potentially fully, physically giving your body to. They're an absolute mirror to you when you do things that are not kind or good or questionable, they mirror back a response to you. And you have to see yourself. If you don't have any relationships like that. You're never learning or growing and you have nothing to observe.

[Amy Robach]

That's actually an excellent point.

[TJ Holmes]

I didn't know people were clowning him online for being in the courtroom. I actually haven't seen that.

[Amy Robach]

That's wild.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He's there, so don't go on X.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, we try to avoid that actually, at all costs.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah, so do I. But I think he's proud of her. I think he loves her. So I don't think he's.

[TJ Holmes]

He's supporting her.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, he's there.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. I mean, when anyone that has anything negative to say about that, I think he is heartbroken. I think he probably wants to fuck up Puff. He probably is holding himself back from jumping over the table, as any man that loves their wife should. I think it is tense. The more tense interaction that I was very curious of is with Puff because it's been spoken about as common knowledge amongst people that are in the scene and around that situation that it was rough losing Cassie for him. And with Kim being gone, this would likely be the only other person that had these that maybe he loved and claimed in front of the world like he did Kim. There's not a ton of women that he's, like, openly claimed for very long periods of time. And I think, like, he probably was sitting in front of somebody that he loved most in the lane of girlfriend. And, you know, beyond Kim Porter. And then also somebody that he probably hates the most in life because she's potentially. He sees her as responsible for being the demise of his entire existence. And I thought the dynamics of also him knowing that that could have been the baby that's inside of her and that he could have had her child. He had children with a bunch of women throughout the relationship that he wasn't as open with as he was with Cassie. You know, I think that probably had to hit on so many levels. I can't even imagine the torture. I don't think there are enough drugs that could make me go to sleep at night after that. For Cassie, I think that she's being able to liberate herself as time continues, potentially.

[Amy Robach]

We heard Cassie testify that it was her husband Alex, who stopped her from all of the thoughts of suicide that she had that she even wanted. She said, I believe on the stand, she wanted to walk out in traffic and literally just have a bus or a car end everything. And it was her husband who pulled her back from that. Those suicidal thoughts. I'm curious about your reaction to that and your experience and other bandmates experience. The power he had over so many people that it actually could contribute to you feeling like you wanted to end your life. I mean, was that shocking to you?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Do you relate at all to how Completely relate. I've had many times where I felt that way. What it is is not, you know, what the deeds done were, to what level the deeds were done to you. Because we all have experienced different levels with this man. Not even just with this man in general. Let's just make it a broad conversation. It's the. It's the disposable part that makes you want to go. It's the being so easily disposed of. I'm an artist that put my whole life into this. You signed me, I worked my ass off. I'VE got platinum records and I didn't see a penny. And now I'm driving an Uber and getting laughed at because someone recognized me on the Internet. That's somebody's story. That type of pain and knowing that you were able to work so hard to achieve levels that are almost. That most people don't even get to experience of accolades. And it also should be a financial compensation because it's not easy to do the things that we were doing and we were worked to death. There's literally like an episode of Making the Band where one of the tasks was, you're not sleeping for three days and can you handle it? That's how the industry is. Let me tell you something. I Till my band member, one of my band members who I went on to move forward with in a group as a duet. Her name's Shannon. Until one day Shannon turned to me and said, hey, obs. Because we'd go throughout the day and I'd just be putting out fires, handling shit. She would sit and have pleasantries with Starbucks person. She'd sit and talk about the guy that was at the theater that we were playing at that night. There's a brick that Kurt Cobain signed and wow, the history of this. And I'd be like, Shannon, there are 8 million problems. We've got to do this, this, this. And she's like, listen, at some point we have to have enjoyment. You are so still trained under that ditty hand. And before Diddy, through my childhood, I had the same type of hand. Which is why I think it made it so easy for me to have the type of conversation that I was having in front of the world with him. I've been trained to handle people like that. When I was called a bitch or been body shamed or whatever the fuck was happening at that time, all the time, I took it as I'd walk out of the room and be like, okay, watch, I'm gonna come back and do it 10 times better. I never went out of the room and was like, no. I did those moments for other things, but not when I was challenged. When I was challenged, I accepted the challenge like I did in my childhood. I one upped it. So those types of personalities happen to fall into this type of pattern of grooming very comfortably.

[TJ Holmes]

You mentioned grooming, though. Remind us of your ages. What age range were you in when you were working with him?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I have to look back, like 2004, I believe we started filming. It wouldn't have aired until 2005. I know that I wasn't of drinking age because I was like, reprimanded that I was. Everyone was older than me. I was a baby. Even though people lied about their age. So it's maybe not. Won't look like that, but I was the baby of the group. I'm the only child of the group as well. So I actually thought they were my real sisters in real life. I didn't understand that that wasn't how everybody looked at it until much later.

[TJ Holmes]

But what was that? 16, 17? What were you, 2004? I'm sorry, I'm not good on the math right now.

[Aubrey O'Day]

No, no, but don't bring up my old ass.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay. Sorry.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I was young enough to where I was pulled out of scenes with liquor. Okay.

[TJ Holmes]

Are you. Do you look back at that time now and after we all heard Cassie's testimony, do you look back on it and feel in some way you were being groomed? For what? Don't know. But did you feel like there was a manipulation going on that qualified as grooming?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah, we just. We discussed it in the last episode. It's the walking to get cheesecake. It's the. For us. Because that dub band was a little bit different than Danity Kane. Danity Kane is a girl group, and we're selling sex. That's what girl groups are considered to be doing. And so for us, it was tiny costumes, big heels. I mean, listen, we would do an entire, like, passes of our show, and Diddy would come up and pull me aside and be like, you have sweat everywhere. And I was like, well, we just did a full blown hour of, like, full blownography. We didn't just stand there and sing ever. And we were expected to sing live. That's a five part harmony. And the. The choreography goes on a different count than the vocals. So it's a nonstop thought process. And being very good at doing all of those things. Not like the girls do nowadays, twerking. That's not technically dancing. Dancing was something different back in my day. And we actually had to do very intricate things. So with that being said, like, it was difficult and I would sweat. I'm somebody that sweats more than probably most of the girls in the group. I'm a sweater. I always get those pit stains. I probably need Botox or whatever that you get inside of there. But. But I would get that. And he'd be like, you're a mess. Like, you need to clean yourself up and this can't happen again. I was trying to figure out how to do a show and not sweat. So I Could make him happy because he wasn't impressed with the way I looked when the show was over and how I started looking halfway through. That's when I got into like full blown wigs. Because you don't end up with damp hair at the end of an hour of full blown, you know, full blown hour show if you've got a wig on because it doesn't drench like your natural scalp touching your hair would.

[Amy Robach]

It's so interesting how I'm sure non shocked and unsurprised you were when we heard Cassie talk about just him directing these freak offs and how everything it mattered how she looked and it didn't matter how she felt. She talked about vomiting.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah.

[Amy Robach]

And because of the drugs she had to be on to stay up for as many as four days straight.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Like we said last time, kids in his girls, young girls in the courtroom learning about how daddy liked to smack it and whip it and roll it around. It's all about what is good for his image, his visual, his optics. Whoever has to be sacrificed along the way gotta take the move. It's what he wants and it's what his optics require. And even down to potentially his own family is operating within that type of, in my opinion, coercion.

[Amy Robach]

My goodness. And so none of that testimony at first.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Would you want your daughters in the courtroom if you had done freaky things? Like would you want your daughter knowing any. Would you ask the people around you to ask her to please step out even if she was like begging to be there and defend father?

[TJ Holmes]

I don't even let Sabine see some of my texts to Robach for the same reason. No. I mean, I say that jokingly, but you make a point. You do always feel like you want to protect your kids, certainly from your own bad behavior or something that could be not even bad behavior. You don't want your kids to know about your kinks.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Correct. Don't you think? Don't you think so? You think that's telling disturbing?

[TJ Holmes]

You find that very telling of him?

[Aubrey O'Day]

It's beyond telling. It's showing me and the Alex Fine move that they made. It's showing me that this man hasn't learned yet, still hasn't learned what we're all trying to get him to learn.

[TJ Holmes]

Now. You said earlier to Robot. He said nothing and you paused. She says anything you heard from Cassie in her testimony surprised you. You said, no, I just want to ask about something in particular. Are you not surprised when you hear her describe how he raped her? He actually, she says he sexually assaulted Her.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Do you remember the word she used? Do you guys have any dictation of it?

[Amy Robach]

I don't remember the word. I just remember this was supposed to be. And it seemed like it was a cordial party.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was a dinner when they were parting ways and then he came back to her house and then did she describe anything?

[TJ Holmes]

What did she say? She said it was quick on top of her in the living room, that she cried throughout. He doesn't even think he recognized that she was crying. And also said I think his eyes were black.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So he was on drugs.

[TJ Holmes]

Unrecognizable.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He went to the black. That black eyes where he's probably on drugs.

[Amy Robach]

Could you tell when Diddy was on drugs and when he wasn't?

[Aubrey O'Day]

He has a look that is very specific when that you would. You would probably. Some would describe it as like devilish. Like you can't see a soul in the eyes. There's only three people that I just couldn't find their soul in their eyes. And I'm an Aquarian. I'm an empath. I like to connect with people. I am like a very in tune girl that likes to feel people's eyes and their presence and their souls. There's only three people that I could not find the soul in. It's a scary thing to see. It's a scary thing to see. I can't imagine sleeping next to it. I can't imagine loving it. I can't imagine wanting to please it. There's. If there's nothing there to connect with and you can't see anything in the eyes and that's what you and that's somebody that you love. Because like I said, it's not all bad. It wasn't all bad for Cassie either. She clearly isn't going to go on. She's not here to go on the stand and tell you about all the good days. People are pointing out good days as if that's disputing anything that she's told us was a bad day. This trial isn't about talking about the good days. So that's not what anyone is focused on. But. But at the end of the day, whether even some are consensual or not, it is very clear that abuse was occurring there. It is very clear that that grooming and that coercion was occurring. It is very clear that. That you know, she was being paid as an artist and on payroll but she stopped making albums early on because the sex was parties became her full time job. So what was the payment that was coming when there were no more nine albums to release.

[TJ Holmes]

The idea that he was capable of raping someone. Right. You know, again, you've had experience with him and know him in certain ways, but that's still not. And it's an allegation at this point that she's making.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It's an allegation that she's making. I want to just also point out it's an allegation that a whole lot of people have made. Do we know the count on the civil suits at this point?

[TJ Holmes]

We lost count long ago.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So for me, that many civil suits and, and by the way, I stayed super neutral on this topic when I first heard it. That was, you know, that was something that I, I can't have. I, I don't have any firsthand knowledge obviously on that day. And I don't know anyone that was there because there was nobody there. So that was never gossip, that was never in the streets, that was never. So that's just between the two. So I stayed neutral on that once. But specific thing, when I read all of her case, however, when all of the things that came after, I have to start to wonder. This is a whole lot of people that are willing to make up very extreme, detailed stories if they're not truths. These. And then to bring lawyers and all of that. Like, yeah, I get that you see a settlement, you think maybe you can get one and maybe some people are dumb enough to go that route. But this is a very serious thing. These are very serious allegations and there are so many of them. It would be hard to assume that that many people are full blown lying about every single detail of their lives. Like, that's kind of hectic to suggest that. So it's hard to just be like right in the middle. I'm leaning a bit.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah.

[TJ Holmes]

Wow.

[Amy Robach]

We know that obviously when we're hearing some of the cross examination that's coming at Cassie from the defense attorneys, you know, she even openly admitted that she, even after what she called rape, the rape happened, she claimed she did have consensual sex with him. Another time after that, after that. And sometimes people, people look at that and say, come on. And if you're in a relationship, you know, come on. And what do you say to those people who are now questioning the credibility of whether or not she was actually raped, given the fact that she was, she was ending the relationship with him, but that she then had consensual sex with him afterwards?

[Aubrey O'Day]

It's all a very long weaved narrative of grooming a young girl that just Would do anything to be have that those personal time moments with you, even if it involves some people you didn't know. It was their secret. He proposed it to her as like introducing her into his mind in the very beginning. You hear her say, I didn't want to say no, or bring up specific things that he was requesting that were really uncomfortable and weird. Like describing her body to an escort. Like the game plan of how each freak off worked and that she felt uncomfortable, but she never wanted to say it because she didn't want to make him feel he was weird because she loved him so much and she didn't want him to think like he gave her a personal. I almost could see the conversation in my head because I just know how this works so well. He opened her up into his personal secrets. She got to know the personal secrets of Diddy. You feel like all kinds of things, like, maybe you could help. Some girls are fixers. You know, there's all kinds of things that go on in a woman's mind when a man has captured your heart, you know, it gets a bit hectic. There are ways that we compromise. Cassie's been saying it like, I want to come forward and admit to all of these things that were wrong, that weren't okay, that are embarrassing, because I want to be honest for once, you know, for at this point in my life and tell the full truth about all the things that she was doing in a younger age that she now believes was absolutely, you know, criminal.

[Amy Robach]

When's the last time you talked to Cassie and when this is all over and you're able to, will you reach out to her?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't want to answer the first question. The second question is, no, I don't. My way of anything that I could ever do for Cassie would just be to stand up publicly and defend her. I think I was the first person to do it. For a few Days of Crickets, I asked my band members to chime in. So the only thing I could do is just offend her and also, like, you know, in a lawsuit, like I said, you don't talk about the good days. You don't talk about the days where you maybe wanted it or you maybe acted like you wanted it in order to make them not leave you or go do it with somebody else because you craved that moment and that personal time with them so much. Like, of course that I understood both sides of. I understood both the moments. I knew what would be brought against her. And I think that people have to be able to not take one set of text messages or one of these events and turn it into a broad understanding of the overall picture. We're hearing one person's story about what it looks like to have been somebody that was in his. In his. What is it like right in front of you in his. Visibility, in his eye. Somebody that he wanted. There's going to. It will continue on. There's eight weeks, and we're on day, what, four. It's gotten pretty hectic for four days.

[TJ Holmes]

Do you. I know you.

[Aubrey O'Day]

They've proven one charge for sure already, Harvey. Which one moved the transportation of prostitution. Transportation of prostitution, not trafficking. There's three. There's a charge that it's like transport of sexual workers. That charge has been proven, I think. I believe sexual trafficking has been proven. These text messages are going to make it a little more difficult for the jury to understand. I don't love ape men. I'm being told by my people in the courtroom that these aren't. Some of these men aren't giving a jackhammer and a construction belt, man. Some of them are giving. They're sensitive. So I don't know. As a very jaded woman at 41 that's been around of a bunch of very disgusting men for a very long history in this industry, I don't trust it at all.

[TJ Holmes]

You don't. So you trust one of them is.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Bound to fuck up.

[TJ Holmes]

But you think you.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Eight men in a room. Are you sidebar' cause you're a man? Amy, Eight men in a room are deciding something that's very serious. Are you gonna trust that?

[Amy Robach]

I mean, it just takes one. It just takes one to hang the jury.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So would you trust it?

[Amy Robach]

No.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Thank you.

[TJ Holmes]

But you. That increases your concern about maybe an acquittal because of how many men. You think they will be sympathetic in some way to him?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't think an acquittal. I think it would be hung hungry. And I think that one charge. I think he'll for sure get one charge. Right now, as of day four, we have two months to go. I think one thing has absolutely been proven. I think the other has been proven. But some of my friends are arguing otherwise. The cross is not as crossy as I thought it would be. I'm, like, sad and glad because I don't want Cassie to ever be brutalized anymore ever again. But also kind of sad that they didn't go a little harder like the lawyer with Harvey Weinstein did. Like you. I was hoping that they would make the mistake of being overly aggressive with her. And it sounds like they didn't.

[TJ Holmes]

So, yeah, you know, I heard someone. One reporter we were talking about this morning described it as almost two friends being cordial in conversation. And that was incredible to see. I do have.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It's smart.

[Amy Robach]

It's strategic.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It's strategic.

[TJ Holmes]

I do have these charges here we were talking about. So it's one racketeering conspiracy, two charges of sex trafficking, and then the two you were talking about, transportation to engage in prostitution.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That's been proven.

[TJ Holmes]

What was the other?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Transportation has been proven. The sex trafficking. I feel it has. But you gotta prove force and coercion. Some of those text messages are gonna make people doubt what they heard on day two, which day two was much stronger. Day one, it was a slower start for me, and the defense had an incredible opening this. Day two picked up for the prosecution, in my opinion. But, yeah, I think that, like, we're very early on in this. So right now, this is. This is the framework. This is establishing a character. This is establishing the way that people would just do anything that he said. That's how encompassing his power and presence was. Like, I don't know, go to Brooklyn and get cheesecake or run around Central park till you see your friends drop.

[TJ Holmes]

You know, I. Look, I am.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I can't wait till we have Babs on. I'm going to have her come for you, eat you up.

[TJ Holmes]

What? Was it you? Yeah, I will bring them all on.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Dylon, Dylon, Dylan Dylon, Dylon, Dylon.

[TJ Holmes]

But I watched every episode.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I watched the Stabs go back and forth.

[TJ Holmes]

I watched. I remember her. And I watched every episode of that show. And we were all complicit in your point. I watched with. I was entertained.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Dave Chappelle made a whole skit of it.

[TJ Holmes]

But I was horrified at times. But for the most part, I was like, oh, nothing took away from Diddy for me and watching. Obviously, I'm a huge fan. I was right in my lane, and I absolutely have just been in awe of his talent and his accomplishments. But what do you do when you hear a Diddy song Now? How do you take music?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't listen. But if you do react, let me ask you this, okay? Name me a Diddy song and. Hold on. Name me a Diddy song where there isn't a feature of a big artist that you love. Just name one.

[TJ Holmes]

Just a solo Diddy track of him. I remember the album, but I'm trying to think of one that didn't have. I think it was right around when he became Diddy again. He released something.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I just hear you babbling. Did you come up with a name yet?

[TJ Holmes]

No, I am looking for. But to the point his hands are on everything.

[Aubrey O'Day]

No, to the point of his hands were on all the publishing masters and ownership of all of the people that he stepped on to move up. But you still can't name me a Diddy song without a very big celebrity feature or come up somebody who ended up being very big. But all the songs that we love, all the hits, all the things that you would play, are also featuring somebody else.

[TJ Holmes]

You don't consider those Diddy songs necessarily, is that right?

[Aubrey O'Day]

So is that what a Diddy song would be? A Diddy song? If you want to tell me his accomplishments and the grandeur of all that he's accomplished as an artist, I'm going to need to hear you name a song and not just a song. If I asked you Beyonce songs, you'd be rolling them off your tongue. You're giving him legendary iconic status like that, but you can't name a song. Artist are who built that entire corporation. The artists there were the ones in the 90s and then after that, they were all of them making the band kids.

[TJ Holmes]

There's nothing about that, I would argue and how he has gone about in building his success. I'm not gonna argue that at all. But it sounds like you. You're taking away or you don't think we should hold him up the way we have as a kid who came from the streets and ended up where he was by some.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't suggest that you shouldn't. Yeah, I don't suggest that you shouldn't. I'm not gonna tell people how to feel about people they like. That's not my concern or my business. I'm just wanting to make a point as somebody that does potentially feel that way. Please take a second to think about just his own name as an artist without anyone else propping it up, without anyone else giving credibility or talent to the song just on his own merits. If you can't name a ton of songs like we can with everybody else, Jay Z, Beyonce, all the big people, then maybe we should be careful about the ways in which we see him in regards to, you know, this incredible iconic artist, music mogul, all these things. He was a man that knew how to choose the right people. And by the right people, I mean, man, there sure were a lot of us that never saw any payment.

[TJ Holmes]

He chose people.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He sure knew how to choose people that would get into the freak offs and all because they loved him. He knew how. When I was talking with my bandmate about this entire situation, I asked her what you asked me. Did you ever fear him enough to where you would have done X, Y, and Z? And she said, no. But she said, I also think that he knew who he could get away with that type of stuff and who he couldn't. Which is why he didn't even really know who I was, because he knew it wouldn't fly with me.

[TJ Holmes]

Does he still have defenders that you see? I know you're so engaged online, so there's maybe some stuff I don't see. But are a lot of people out there still active and open, big fans and defend him right now?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. I mean, there are people that see him. I mean, God, ask everybody at my hotel that recognizes me. I'm staying at a hotel that is infamous for being Diddy's hotel. And all kinds of things I'm sure went on at that hotel, including music videos and campaigns and also maybe other things. Who knows? Pre calls, but the entire staff is still working there. When I walked in, they were. They were saying, man, you don't age and things like that. And I'm looking at these old men like, what in the who? The what? And they're like, a guy was walking with me, telling me, oh, my God, I remember this. I remember that. I remember when you came through one time, I had the biggest crush on you. Blah, blah, blah. Every single person. Person in that hotel, and they're telling me their opinions about all of it, and they're saying, man, I miss this person. I miss that person. They named a person that I know was assaulting people. And I was just sitting here listening to him roll through these names and the good old days of it. And I was thinking to myself, man, it must be so hard for people. They consider their memories of him to be these good old days. And this run that he had in this hole that he. This chokehold that he had on New York in general. I grew up on the West Coast. I'm a Pac fan, baby. So it was. I didn't look at him like that. But for the. If you were talking about Pac, I definitely would be in a chokehold. So I can understand. New. This is his city. So in. In that regard, I think that it's very hard for people to be able to have been so disillusioned by celebrity, to be. To think that everything that we could potentially be watching and looking up to could be as fraudulent as what we are seeing now. And by the way, it is. I'VE been to like three places where everybody actually was who the fuck they say they are. Everybody else is on some bullshit. We won't get into that now, but if I get my own podcast, I'm calling all you motherfuckers out.

[Amy Robach]

Just remind everyone how. How it went down. How he fired you.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I was fired. We were called in to do a final scene to close off the season. And it was just like a check in and a good job. We had just gotten off of a big tour, et cetera, and we all got called into this meeting and it took a very dark turn and he. I don't even know how it started, but somehow he started going at me and he fired me. The words that I've been told multiple times. And I rewatched it, actually, when I came. I moved to Bali for a while to heal from a lot of the trauma and the things that I found myself in the beginning half of my career not able to have my voice chakras were like locked up. When I got there, I learned because I would want to tell my truth. But my truth included conversations where people cross paths with me. And those people are lying about who they are. And I needed to protect their lies because they're not telling anyone the truth about who they are. So then I could never give an honest portrayal of anything I experienced because every single person that I have connected cross paths with was doing some funny shit. And so for me, I found myself always being roadblocked, never being able to fully get at the truth. And I was feeling like I was just living in a whole bubble of lies. And like we've discussed headlines that can just be thrown out there and everyone believes it. When you're sitting at work about to do your job, people are out here thinking you're drunk and you've got a bar in your room. It's unfair. It is offensive to the work that we show up and do. And what can you do about it? It could be the system that's putting those stories out. You don't know. You can't go against the system. I've done it a few times and I have a whole lot of strikes through my name at a lot of different networks. If you haven't seen me on a show that you've always wanted to see me on, that's the network. I don't even know how Masked Singer happened. They wanted a diddy victim so bad, they were willing to take that black list out of my name over there.

[Amy Robach]

So you went back to watch the firing to kind of relive it. So you knew when I got it.

[Aubrey O'Day]

From Bali, I watched it and I just, like I said, I have shedded the layers of the parts of me that were so hurt and that knew they would never see justice. And if I was going to continue to carry that, I would have a chip on my shoulder the size of China. So I had to shed. And unfortunately, all the things that people are now recognizing were the truth. They the parts of me that were shed and are long gone are the parts that needed to hear. Means nothing to me now, except I encourage people that see that I've been telling the truth for so long to look into some of the other people I talk about. Because if you believe I'm a truth teller on one thing, maybe you should looking at some of the other truths that I've spoken on.

[TJ Holmes]

All right, well, the truths will keep coming. Folks, we are just getting started here with Aubrey. We will continue to follow very closely, like many of you are, what's happening in that courtroom. But, Aubrey, we appreciate it. We appreciate getting to know you and giving all of us some better perspective about a guy we've watched most of our lives and about a trial that we're watching right now. Really? You've absolutely already been wildly enlightening. And we're just getting started.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Wait till we get to the urination.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah, that's a good tease.

[Amy Robach]

That's a hell of a tease.

[TJ Holmes]

Next episode, urine. We'll see you next time, folks.