Bad Boy For Life?

Summary

Episode Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial – "Bad Boy For Life?"

Release Date: July 8, 2025

In the compelling episode titled "Bad Boy For Life?" from the iHeartRadio podcast series featuring Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes, television personality and Danity Kane alum Aubrey O'Day provides an in-depth analysis of the high-profile trial involving Sean “Diddy” Combs. The episode delves into the intricacies of the trial, the unexpected split verdict, and its broader implications on society and the entertainment industry.

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1. Introduction: Setting the Stage

The episode begins with Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes welcoming Aubrey O'Day to discuss the riveting Diddy trial. Aubrey, bringing her unique perspective as a former protege of Diddy and a seasoned media personality, sets the tone for an intense examination of the trial's proceedings and outcome.

2. The Verdict: Unexpected Outcomes

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the split verdict delivered in the trial, which left many observers stunned.

• Aubrey O'Day reflects on the unexpected nature of the split verdict:
  "Not this split, no. I don't think many were. None of the serious journalists that were in the courtroom that were reading the transcripts that I was in communication with, we all were talking."
  (Timestamp: [03:13])

She elaborates on the prosecution's and defense's expectations, highlighting that while some charges were anticipated, the jury's indecision on others signaled deeper complexities within the case.

3. Analyzing Prosecution and Defense Strategies

Aubrey critiques the prosecution's approach, suggesting that their strategy may have inadvertently weakened their case.

• Aubrey O'Day muses on the prosecution's possible miscalculations:
  "They better have. And I just thought it was too QAnon-ish to get into."
  (Timestamp: [04:45])

She also questions the defense's tactics, particularly their ability to anticipate every possible scenario, ultimately leading to a split decision that may not favor Diddy's legal standing.

4. Impact on Abuse Survivors and the Me Too Movement

The conversation shifts to the broader societal implications of the trial's outcome, especially concerning abuse survivors.

• Aubrey O'Day emphasizes the trial's chilling effect:
  "This will have a chilling effect on abuse survivors long past the time I'm gone."
  (Timestamp: [10:16])

She discusses how the verdict could deter survivors from coming forward, fearing inadequate justice or public backlash.

5. The Role of Media and Public Perception

Aubrey critically examines the media's role in shaping public opinion and the trial's narrative.

• She points out the influence of social media and public figures in swaying perceptions:
  "We're never going to know what setups were until the setups occurred. Will never understand truly how much reality we're really seeing until I guess you're at the top, right?"
  (Timestamp: [05:43])

Additionally, she highlights the problematic portrayal of Cassie Ventura during the trial, suggesting that her presence and actions may have adversely influenced the jury's perception.

6. Emotional Reactions and Personal Impact on Aubrey

Aubrey shares her personal emotional journey throughout the trial, revealing the toll it has taken on her.

• She recounts her immediate reaction to the verdict:
  "I cried and talked about how I felt with her."
  (Timestamp: [08:44])

Her vulnerability underscores the personal stakes involved and the emotional weight carried by those closely connected to the case.

7. Systemic Issues and Power Dynamics

The discussion delves into the systemic problems that allow powerful individuals like Diddy to potentially evade full accountability.

• Aubrey O'Day critiques the intersection of money, power, and influence:
  "Money, power, influence."
  (Timestamp: [05:53])

She draws parallels to other high-profile cases, suggesting a recurring pattern where systemic advantages hinder true justice.

8. Potential Future Implications and Conclusion

Concluding the episode, Aubrey contemplates the long-term repercussions of the trial's outcome and offers a cautiously optimistic perspective on ongoing legal actions.

• She mentions upcoming civil lawsuits and the continued pursuit of justice:
  "There was another one filed and it involves STDs now. So now we're finally getting into the STD part about this that I told you guys from the beginning."
  (Timestamp: [44:19])

Aubrey urges listeners to remain vigilant and supportive of survivors, emphasizing the enduring struggle for accountability and systemic change.

Notable Quotes:

• Aubrey O'Day on Prosecution's Strategy:
  "They didn't put on a defense. Mark Agniphilo's closing was straight hot trash."
  (Timestamp: [07:45])

• Aubrey O'Day on Jury Decision:
  "Everyone's always says, you can't blame the jury. I don't know. To me, I'm not in a profession where I'm going to take heat for questioning the jury."
  (Timestamp: [23:15])

• Aubrey O'Day on Accountability:
  "We need to start holding ourselves accountable. But accountability, unfortunately, is not a silver lining I can give to you."
  (Timestamp: [45:34])

• Aubrey O'Day on Power Dynamics:
  "If you have power that are still working it in ways that are horrific and disgusting."
  (Timestamp: [23:03])

Conclusion

This episode provides a nuanced exploration of the Diddy trial's verdict, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the legal strategies, emotional ramifications, and societal implications surrounding the case. Aubrey O'Day's candid insights and critical analysis illuminate the complexities of achieving justice within a system influenced by wealth and fame. For those seeking an in-depth examination of a landmark trial that has stirred national conversation, this episode serves as an essential listen.

Transcript

[Aubrey O'Day]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[TJ Holmes]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24. 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Ian Pfaff]

My Uncle Chris was a real character, a garbage truck driver from South Carolina who is now buried in Panama City alongside the founding families of Panama. He also happens to be responsible for the craziest night of my life. Wild stories about adventure, romance, crime, history and war intertwine as I share the tall tales and hard truths that have helped me understand Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Amy Robach]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson threw the very first brick banging on the door.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Of the Stonewall like one. Boom.

[Amy Robach]

This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marcia P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Did it occur to you that he.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Charmed you in any way?

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yes, it did. But he was a charming man.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story. Because this ties together the Cold War.

[Ian Pfaff]

With the new one.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I often ask myself now, did I.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Know the true Jan at all?

[Ian Pfaff]

Listen to hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Iheart Podcast before social media, before cable news, there was Alan Berg.

[TJ Holmes]

He was the first and the original Shock.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Shock.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to and telling them that you're an idiot and I'm gonna hang up on you. This is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. And he pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, there are probably 2 million suspects. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Amy and TJ Presents Aubrey o' Day.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Covering the Diddy trial.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Welcome, everyone, to this edition of Amy and TJ presents Aubrey o' Day covering the Diddy trial. And my goodness, Aubrey, you've had some time to reflect on the verdict that left a lot of people shocked. A lot of people were expecting it.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Where did you fall?

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Were you anticipating this split verdict?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Not this split, no. I don't think many were. None of the serious journalists that were in the courtroom that were reading the transcripts that I was in communication with, we all were talking. I mean, I was literally, like, talking with Elizabeth Wagmeister as she pops up on the air with one of the verdicts. And it just wasn't a call that any of us made. We definitely thought that Cassie's sex trafficking charge was gonna be there.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Wait, can I ask you there are we. Did you think. Were you thinking that before we got word that they had come to a conclusion on four and were hung on racketeering?

[Aubrey O'Day]

So when that happened the night before, I'm on the phone with all the sources, and everybody was actually reporting, like, if I'm the prosecution, I'm happy. If I'm the defense, I'm nervous. That's what was being reported, like, across the board on every station. I was, I think, watching abc, but. And one of my friends called me from NBC and she was like, this is good. That means that if they are split on rico, that they. There's half that feel it did happen. And, you know, a number of them that feel like that it did happen, that means that they would have had to have given him guilty on the charges that were lower. And that was the thought that everybody was going with. But as we crept into that morning, I started to analyze that thought, and I was like, wait, if they have him on any of the counts underneath that and they have them on. If they got them on sex trafficking, you'd have to get them on transport. Right. Both of them. So then I was like, okay, for sure the transport is there. So then I thought, if they have cassies, which I thought they would. I think they did, then that would be three. You only need two for rico. So why is there anybody that is unsure about rico? And that's when I realized this isn't a good sign for the prosecution.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Yeah, everybody, I can feel it sounds like that's what. The defense went through that same process.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Too, because it was reported the defense was freaking out. Diddy was stressed out. He was. Yes. But they were hugging and it wasn't.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

They were serious and they were Concerned. And so they seemed very worried. And then suddenly we see them walk into court the next day and there is confidence. There's a little bit of a. According to the court reporters, there was a little swagger in Diddy that wasn't there the day before. So they had the same late night realization. Wait a minute. They might not have him on sex.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Trafficking, but imagine these are the best lawyers around and imagine that they have to have predicted every single call and gone over every single possibility 5 million times to the amount of money they're making. They better have. And yet they didn't see it. So it kind of almost makes me wonder, you know, I just don't. We're never going to know what history is until it's history. We'll never know what setups were until the setups occurred. Will never understand truly how much reality we're really seeing until I guess you're at the top, right? So I don't know. I was told early on all kinds of different theories. There was only one theory that led back to this being the outcome. And I just thought it was too qanon ish to get into. But it was kind of like a he did something that he shouldn't have done. He took a misstep with his power and underestimate his opponent. And he will have to be humiliated in front of the world. And as long as he doesn't put on a defense and he doesn't name any other names that he would be able to get out of this with a lost career in their minds. But what I don't think they realize is that's not what's in Diddy's head. In fact, if you'd missed the hot single, you could have just looked outside the courtroom after the charges were brought in and his son was performing it from the speaker system inside of that big van that they've been getting into. And the girlfriend was turned backwards twerking. And then he got his shirt off and then he did push ups. And inside the courtroom, they stood up and applauded him, saying, dream team. Dream team. I don't know how much of a dream team it was. They didn't put on a defense. Mark agniphilo's closing was straight hot trash. He gave them a miraculous, beautiful environment to work in. These girls were lined up waiting to be in the freak off. They were waiting for a chance to get pissed on. Cassie and Diddy were equals. They were Bonnie and Clyde. This is your everyday messy. Love that. And this is a man that did Not. And he did a good job at that video, which was a strong point. He made it. I didn't give them the money to pay them off because I was protecting the enterprise. I did it because I was protecting my reputation. That turns this case into a first amendment case in one sentence.

[Mark Agnifilo]

These guys are. From the legal standpoint, folks are going to be breaking this down forever. Can I just ask you from an emotional standpoint, Don't. Not breaking down count. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Just after we went through all this to hear the verdicts and the ditty is possibly going to maybe spend an extra year in prison at most maybe an extra 4. Can I just ask you your emotional reaction to hearing it?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't know if that's true. I'm hoping that it's not.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

We shall see.

[Aubrey O'Day]

My. My initial reaction, I was literally on like I was doing. I'm doing another TV show. So I had a press day that day. So I was on Inside Edition. It came in as I was to start going, I think I said 16 times during that interview. Most of it was unusable. And so I just decided to cut press for the day. And then I did. Eliz, I, I didn't get to speak with you guys on verdict day. And so I spoke with Elizabeth Wagmeister and I cried and talked about how I felt with her.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

It was just an overwhelming feeling of emotion.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Just.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

You were. What did you. Did you want guilty on all counts? Do you think that that's. That would have felt like justice to you?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Well, the woman on Inside Edition asked me what justice is and I said, it's funny, I got asked that the first day by TJ and Amy and it was, you know, I want the prosecution to prove through, through the law what the charges that they indicted him on. And they're 95% the Southern District, so I don't expect them to not do that. Then it was my personal feelings as I got toward the end of the trial and was doing interviews for this other TV show which were, yes, everything. And now justice to me would look like one woman coming forward and having.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

People just believe her.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Because good luck now.

[Mark Agnifilo]

But what do we do? You think this is a setback, you're saying for women and women a setback.

[Aubrey O'Day]

On a magnificent scale. This will have a chilling effect on abuse survivors long past the time I'm gone. You know, Malcolm X, I was actually listening to this YouTuber Tisa tells. But she said a Malcolm X quote, which is black women are the most disrespected unprotected and neglected women of everyone. And then she said, that's not just for black women anymore. That's for all women now. So. So start taking notes, start taking receipts, start taking pictures. Start turning in people that are doing bad things immediately. All we have is each other now. We need to stay diligent. We need to stay on top of it, and we need to stay protecting each other.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Aubrey, do you know you have been outspoken and we talked about this from the beginning, about your experience and what you are investigating about your own situation. Do you feel. Do you feel. I don't want to say silence, but.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Do you feel.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Like you might not want to move forward, that it doesn't feel worth it? Does it make you feel less likely to speak up and speak out? Do you feel, I mean, discourage just such a. Probably not a strong enough word. But how does it impact your wanting to move forward and you're wanting to find out and investigate what happened to you, what may have happened to you?

[Aubrey O'Day]

So that's. I haven't gotten to that exactly yet, but I've gotten to versions of it. Somebody asked me a question about my experience with one specific category that day and I said, I'm so sorry, I can't talk about that because it's just not safe to talk about that anymore. This is what coercion looks like. What I told you guys, it's going to be a systematic coercion. So many very powerful men that are in the music industry that I've been talking to during this entire trial who know exactly what it is said to me along the way, many different things, but at the very end said, you're going to need to like lift the narrative a bit and go a bit toward the opening up toward Diddy 5 if you want to stay working. Exactly what I just said. They feel that I need to lean into the. There's a possibility that Diddy's. Oh, great. There's a possibility that the sun dancing naked with his shirt off and the girlfriend twerking, putting her ass out and doing the push ups and applauding in the middle of a federal court and screaming dream team and Diddy is love and all this, that and the other, that there's a world in which all of that is like kind of okay. Because you got to start leaning into someone that's going to get right back into a very powerful position.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Wait a minute. You're being advised to soften your tone about Diddy because he's a. There's a feeling he's about to go back to being a very influential person in the music industry.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Not even a feeling. It's like 100%. I'm not saying in the music industry, but I think he'll definitely get back in there. My thing was I didn't even know he had released that. I, I said I had said it in jest to like a reporter that I know. Oh, he'll have an album out before the end of this year. And then she's like, I said him and Kanye west are going to get together likely, potentially. We know who Kanye's good friends are, Elon and Trump. He likes to hang out with a lot. I think this could likely start to become the narrative of the new man, the new male. I think it becomes like a type of situation, like we said with Neo, just start bringing them out. I got five women. There's little dancer, tiny girl, chocolate sweets and sugar coated candy. These are the four my four wives or girlfriends, whatever they were called. Remember we found their names during one of our podcasts. That's what I think. I think it's gonna be like do it out in the open. I, I am so, so, so sad for and people keep driving this home for women and it is for women, but it also is for men and artists too. That's why in my statement I said at the very end, like y' all 12 people can do what you do. But no. No artist, no woman or man is owned and the property of the most wealthy, rich or famous or powerful person ever. Never will we be. We are not disposable.

[Amy Robach]

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[TJ Holmes]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 247 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Ian Pfaff]

My Uncle Chris is definitely somebody worth talking about. He was the kind of guy that used Confederate flags as window curtains, lived in a trailer with an ex con and a retired stripper, left loaded machine guns laying around, drank a bottle of whiskey a night, claimed he could kill a man with his bare hands, drove a garbage truck for a living, spoke fluent Spanish with a thick southern accent, and is currently buried in a crypt alongside the founding families of Panama. Listen to the Uncle Chris podcast to hear all about him and a whole lot more. This collection of stories will make you laugh, it'll make you cry, and if I do my job right, they'll let you see the world and your place in it in a whole new way. I can't wait to tell you all about Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to Podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

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[Danielle Robaix]

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[Amy Robach]

I think any good romance gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Danielle Robaix]

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[Aubrey O'Day]

Diddy is really smart and he's very powerful. R. Kelly is a completely different type of powerful than Diddy. And these are the same people that took R. Kelly down, but it's a whole different thing. And we witnessed a whole different thing. We witnessed witnesses dropping out. I mean, the whole ending of the trial was fascinating for me. One, I find out a number allegedly of how much is being paid for those overflow rooms to sound and look the way they were sounding.

[Mark Agnifilo]

No, I don't know about this. What is it?

[Aubrey O'Day]

The overflow rooms were very pro ditty. They stood up and started chanting his name and free ditty and freedom and you know, free at last. Screaming, yelling, jumping up in the air. I heard a dollar amount on, you know what people were paid outside the courtroom, inside the courtroom, inside the overflow rooms. And. And there were many times in this case where even it was brought to the judge that journalists YouTube, you know, the new journalist is YouTubers and TikToks. They are the new people. Now they were saying, like, if you get reach to any of these people and I find out, I will prosecute and I will put people behind bars. Like there were people reaching out to YouTubers, to influencers, to change the dialogue and the tone. Shit, there were people just saying, I'm wearing this free Diddy shirt because somebody came up to me and paid me this much money and I need it. And I put it on. Like, the amount of money that went into the campaign is astonishing. And then to see, for me, it was a little bit of tell, a little bit of a tell. And I said this to you guys early on, the eight pack of white women with no diversity, not even a mix. That to me felt like, how could people that are that smart be so unaware of optics? Frankly, Jane Doe needs to stay out the way of female advocates because I might go remind myself of how I How baddies was and throw some paws on her for the amount of harm that she did to this trial. I think she did so much harm that people started to not really feel as strongly about Cassie. They kept her on the stand longer, and she did a lot of damage.

[Mark Agnifilo]

How much do you hold the responsibility for the prosecutors for even putting her up there? To your point, she didn't have to be there unless they put her there. And once she got there, yes, she did harm. But that was their call.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I say, I look at it like this. I think their case was falling apart in front of their eyes. I feel like I said, when I took the lsat, there was like a leak in the ceiling and it was dripping on me. And I was having a hard time reading and remembering all the details in this very long thing. Part of the LSAT is like long comprehension and reading and then remembering small things because there was a noise and there was water dripping on my shoulder. I think that's what happened to them. There was a crack in the ceiling early on. And you know what that crack is? Money, power, influence. You have people like Young Miami reposting and. And putting hearts on people saying, glad you aren't acting like a victim, crying over some bullshit and you're doing it and getting your thing popping. Okay, well, that's a girlfriend and the single with his son saying, we got money. We'll always get away with everything. Y' all don't have the money we have. Y' all don't have the power we have. These are the lyrics. Okay, so when that occurs and then that weekend, tmz, which is known to be very pro diddy during this trial. Let's just all stop acting like everybody else is saying it. I'll just say it for my own self. They were giving pro diddy during this trial. It was a very quick verdict. It's too hectic for me. There's a lot of things that just don't look right. Is it okay, though?

[Mark Agnifilo]

Should we be criticizing the jury, though?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Everybody says not to. Everybody always says, you can't blame the jury. You can't blame the jury. I don't know. To me, I'm not in a profession where I'm going to take heat for questioning the jury. I was convinced the whole time I was in the band with her. I had no idea who she really was. She was doing these fucking freak offs, for fuck's sake, according to her and her lawsuit. So to me, it's like, I think I saw a path where you could insert yourself in this trial if you wanted to, through the justice system. And I think there were inserts that were just damning. Obviously, Jane is just. She's receiving payments from Diddy still, whether it be for her home or her lawyer. She's being paid for by Diddy. She threw this case really bad. Really, really bad. Why the prosecution would put him her up there and do that type of damage. They were trying to establish a pattern, but I don't think they realized all the other things that she could establish as well. And how long they kept her on was so damning because people thought when Cassie was done, everybody from the courtroom to the podcast, we were like, that was horrific. She took accountability. She said, the good and the bad, I can't even come for her. I was nervous she was going to try to skip around things and act innocent. Like, she didn't.

[Mark Agnifilo]

What are the conversations like and the feelings and everybody you talk to about Cassie Ventura, fine. Now, she's a tough one to reconcile. A lot of it's tough to reconcile.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think, you know, her lawyer said that she was doing fine and that she feels good that she was part of at least bringing this man somewhere close to some acknowledgment of who he is. And we all have to agree that he would have gone and gotten his Grammy in Fed last February. He would have gone on with this love movement and all. There's many civil suits during the love trial where people are claiming to have been raped and really chaotic drugs. A lot of the same things we were hearing in this trial, but to extreme degrees when it's not a girlfriend.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Aubrey, I'm curious what you think about. Like, I know you talked a little bit about the jurors, and you talked a little bit about the money and the power, but what about the prosecution in terms of choosing the charges that they decided to go with? I mean, we had been talking and discussing why not, and I don't know if it's federal or state charges, but why not pursue the charges that we know he committed that are provable and indisputable assault? You know, all of the things, you know, the drug use, all of these.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Things that could have put him away.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

For quite some time with actions that he didn't even dispute that he admitted to freely?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Because in my opinion, they saw exactly what I saw. An organization of people that were committing crimes, period. And that's a really scary thing. And it doesn't look like the mob anymore. We might just see a whole bunch of white folks now. We did see white folks Doing it. Jeffrey Epstein, whatever the, the fat guy is who's in there now in the movie industry.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Harvey Weinstein.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. They're, they're starting to really like, move around and, and take bigger looks. We're not looking as a society yet, though. We're not, we're still asking, why did they go back? We, we, we just literally saw, we just saw literally on display in front of the world. We basically watched a national conversation about trauma bonding and the persistence of love, force abuse and toxic relationships. And yet the audience is still asking, well, why did they go back? We haven't even wrapped our heads around that shit. Some women, until I explained it to them, they were like, man, I've done that. And I'm like, yeah, she just did it to extreme degrees. Because that's what Diddy liked. Extreme degrees of everything. But, but either way, like, I've read so many statements from people that are scared to death. The chef, scared to death, told the judge, thank you for not that day, like hearing that he could be going home that day. Every, I don't know how many, like, be careful, stay safe. Everybody called me that. I know that's on the victim side and would just looked at me on FaceTime and just were like, he's always been untouchable and he remains that way.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Is that the problem here in this case is that unfortunately that there were complexities and context necessary, but everybody looks at this as Diddy won and he got away with abusing women. And that's just it. So this sets us all back. Do you, do you think it's as simple as that in this conversation or a lot more context needs to be involved in it?

[Aubrey O'Day]

A lot more context. That would be the opinion of someone that just read some headlines. If you actually, if you read. I've read every single civil suit to.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Your point, don't most people just read headlines? And that's unfortunate.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It is it. And maybe that's how the jury, I don't know if the jury interpreted. You have to understand, they went home. They weren't sequestered. You don't know what they looked at. Or so I'll tell you right now, don't put me on a jury because if I get on a jury and I'm not sequestered, I'm going to ask my man to look every little thing up and tell me what he's seen in his phone.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Auburn, that's going to get you out of jury duty.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That's fine. But I, I, I, I really like, I don't know how anyone. All we live in is a tech savvy world where everybody's on their phones to stay off of it and not see anything about this trial sounds ridiculous to me, but again, if this were just a ritualistic punishment for. We just. There are so many levels of power that are just. Will forever be so unknown. There are so many levels of power. You guys have seen the levels that you've seen. You've seen what gets away at those levels and you've seen how an audience of people receives those levels. And I'm sure that you guys have your own conversations about how little you two can do as journalists to ever really bridge that gap. Now think 5 billion times past you guys, because that's where Diddy's at. And then think 5 billion times past him because that's where the white man is at, you know, the one who runs our country. The courts are making bad calls that are putting a lot of people's lives in danger in politics and in entertainment. I said this to you guys in the beginning. They are mirroring each other right now. If there is anyone out there that is watching the news unfold with either of those two places, media and politics, and they agree with what is occurring and they agree with the court's positioning on the things that are happening right now, please stay the fuck away from me. All the way to fuck away from me. Please go. So don't breathe on me. I don't want to catch it. I don't even want to fucking catch it. If it means I don't get to have a career, fine. Y' all motherfuckers have. I've been miserable in this life. It is not a beautiful, wonderful life. It wasn't for any of the girls that took that stand. Diddy did not offer a wonderful experience where you gotta have the. The most insane, cool, brilliant job ever. Like Mark Agniplo. Let's hope karma's not real for his sake. But either way, like, and that's he's doing, that's his job. But like, I, I've said this many times when I had been on this podcast. That's a dirty job. It's a scum. It's a scumbag job. And, and, and there is not anyone that I have spoken to that thinks Diddy is a reformed man. He might, he might create a whole narrative though, of reformation. He. He's great at, at rebranding and redirecting. I think his smartest move will be in redirecting all of his abilities into his children and making money off of them and branding them out there in the world. This, that and the other. Because I don't know what's part of his deal that he did with the devil because everybody does them.

[Amy Robach]

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[TJ Holmes]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 247 access access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Ian Pfaff]

My Uncle Chris is definitely somebody worth talking about. He was the kind of guy that used Confederate flags as window curtains, lived in a trailer with an ex con and a retired stripper, left loaded machine guns laying around, drank a bottle of whiskey a night, claimed he could kill a man with his bare hands, drove a garbage truck for a living, spoke fluent Spanish with a thick southern accent, and is currently buried in a crypt alongside the founding families of Panama. Listen to the Uncle Chris podcast to hear all about him and a whole lot more. This collection of stories will make you laugh, It'll make you cry. And if I do my job right, they'll let you see the world and your place in it in a whole new way. I can't wait to tell you all about Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to Podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

For my Heart podcasts and Rococo Punch. This is the Turning River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to the Turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Robaix]

Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never for.

[Amy Robach]

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Danielle Robaix]

I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers and more to explore the stories that shape us on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving book talk, theories and observations, obsessing over book to screen casts for years and now I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Well, Aubrey, it's interesting you mentioned because Mark Agnesillo did a an interview with the AP over the weekend and he talked a little bit about what Diddy is going to do when he gets out of prison, whether.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Oh yeah, what's that? You have a documentary, an album. He already released the album.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Well, he said, he said he's going straight to a clinic where he was going to re enter a rehabilitation center for domestic abusers. For people who abuse.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

So do you think that he is capable of rehabilitation?

[Aubrey O'Day]

First of all, if you watch in court when the judge. First of all, here's my theories on it. Those two days where everyone reported him Being scared as his lawyers telling him, look, this is what's coming in, and him being, like, shocked. They said he looked like he was going to vomit. Like, his face flush. And there are people that had eyes directly on his entire team and him. I think you do a deal with the devil. They promise you if you don't put on a defense and you don't throw anyone else under, you'll get away. But you never know if that's really going to work until it works, right. I've never done a deal with the devil, but I can assume you don't really trust the devil. But at certain point, maybe you get locked so caught up in a situation that you got to make a deal, but you don't really know if the devil's gonna screw you. And at the end of the day, what I watched was this, like, fear and then this release. And we all saw how he went out. When the jury was released and they got their instructions, he stood up and said to the judge, you did a great job, sir. I'm feeling great. Good job on this case. Good job. This freak off has been. You did a good job at manage. Like. Like what? And they said, I asked. I asked Elizabeth, did the judge look like, what the. And she was like, he gave an uncomfortable like, okay. And I was like, was it like a long one, like flattery, or was it a short one, Like, I've never had anyone do that. This is weird as shit. And she said the first. Like, it was weird as shit. And so then. Then when they said he said that he wasn't going to let him go for his own. His own. His own defense team's reasons throughout the case. They said he looked shocked and that he raised his hand in court and asked to speak to the judge. And then Mark ran back and was like, whoa, he wants to speak to you directly. Hold on. Bibbidi bobbidi. Bibbidi bobbidi. Bibbidi bobbidi. And then Diddy sat down, he probably said something like, are you trying to fuck with the system again, sir? We already saw where this got you the first time. Sit the fuck down. So frankly, in my opinion, it's going to be really hard for him to go and have some therapist talk with him about domestic violence and his alcohol and drug problems. He's got his sons outside of court singing their hit song, yo, we're rich, we're rich, we're famous. We always get away with everything. Hoes, why look at my bitch twerk. Okay, we have that going on outside. We have fucking people pouring baby oil all over themselves outside of a federal building. You have people inside clapping, standing and screaming. Dream team. Dream team. This team wasn't did jack shit. I mean, OJ's team, that's a dream team. The glove doesn't fit. Don't he make sure you don't take your diabetes medication? Make sure that glove. That shit was genius. You can't hate that. That was actually a genius play. There was nothing genius that occurred. Mark Agnipolo's closing was horrible in my opinion.

[Mark Agnifilo]

It worked though, didn't it? This guy was facing life in prison. He might be out. I mean, he thought he was going to be out last week. He was facing life now. Their strategy and all this. But didn't it work? Whatever they did, it worked on these 12 people that they were in the room with.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And then maybe someday we will understand all the reasons why. There are systems at play that are much bigger than you, that make decisions about you, that make choices about you, that make calls on you. And depending on what level you're on, you will be dismissed. If they want to dismiss you and if you're causing problems or they really just don't like you, they'll throw a little bit of PR in the mix and dirty your name up a bit.

[Mark Agnifilo]

So you're saying there is something untoward or something else going on with this jury that we don't know about?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Listen, we know all the way up until the very first day of jury selection that witnesses were just going missing.

[Mark Agnifilo]

I mean, are you thinking there's something like something was going on with this jury? Like you're, you're saying this is not a legitimate verdict?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think the jury was pretty, they all had like, pretty good resumes. They. I didn't, I saw people that like, I didn't see anything funny in that regard. What I'm saying to you is, first of all, jury, a lot of jury deliberations are sign of the times. We are normalizing chaos right now. We are also normalizing that the political and celebrity world are bonkers, crazy and do weird ass. That ain't my life though. We are also at a time where we are really on the messaging. That ain't my though. I'm worried about me myself and I, I've seen very few people along this way truly give a about me, but they all want me to show up when it's time to show up. So at the end of the day, if that's where we live in and that's what it is and that's the mentality. It is what it is.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

Aubrey, will you have you. Will you change how you operate, how you live your life? Is there fear? You said people were checking in on you. You okay?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I'm low hanging fruit. I'm low hanging fruit. I. I wouldn't. I don't think that I would. I would wait to see what happens with the girls civil trial before I would come forward and say anything. I will always allow my story to be heard at the right time. But do I care to know the answer? No, it won't matter. And the feeling of knowing the answer and it not mattering is so horrible. It's just better to leave it alone. Especially if it's not like, you know, bringing sickness to my life. And then. I don't know, I mean, I. It's just another gut punch like the one we saw him give Cassie at the Intercontinental. We're used to taking them. I got used to taking them at a very young age. It hurts every time. You're embarrassed, you're humiliated, you feel like is a person. You think about it all day long. You obsess, you ask all of your friends of your about your worth and your credibility. And I guess if you spend enough of your life being around that toxic shit, you kind of just start to learn who you are and not give a fuck about anybody else or their opinions.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

It has been fascinating to witness this and watch this trial with you and through your lens and your experience and the people you know from Dawn, Richard to Diddy himself and. And I know that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And Cassie and Capper, Jane Doe and the other Mia. Yeah. It's.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

It's deeply personal to you and for you. And so we just. I just want to say thank you for being vulnerable, for being open to sharing your experiences, how you're feeling, what the people who, you know, who know more than any of us what really was going on in that world. I just. I just want to say thank you because it's brave of you to speak out and to speak your truth and. And I think it will empower a lot of folks who are on the fence or who don't feel comfortable saying how they feel or what happened to them.

[Aubrey O'Day]

For a message for those people, you're welcome. A thank you. A message to those people would be. This is far from over. It's far from over. R. Kelly had a victory lap, so did O.J. did. He's getting one right now. Who you are and how you treat other people is your karma in life. And we've missed the first round on many players. So I think the karma will catch up. And there are still no lawsuit has pulled out yet, no civil lawsuit has pulled out yet. And there was another one filed and it involves STDs now. So now we're finally getting into the STD part about this that I told you guys from the beginning, but it wasn't entering the conversation until the end. But like I said, you can't give people STDs without their knowledge. So that's going to bring forward a whole lot of other problems for a lot of people too.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Barbara, give us an upside, a positive or at least something we can take from what we just went through for eight weeks and take and do something positive with it moving forward. Give us something. Because this is always. There's no winners and no losers. It seems like everybody lost. I mean, except for David, to be quite honest with you, to be facing.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Life not facing as much if you were reformable and. And this were he were surrounded by people that are gonna hold him accountable. We don't have anyone just taking accountability at this point for their behavior. I've been doing jobs for the past couple of months where there is no accountability for behavior. It just get blamed on this person or this person. But no one just holds themselves accountable. And it's like, hey, it's just this. We for some reason think that we can't ever be wrong. As if any human isn't flawed, we need to start holding ourselves accountable. But accountability, unfortunately, is not a silver lining I can give to you because the reaction of the family, the twerking, the song, the. The rap performance, all of the movements are showing me the accountability is just garbage there. Just out of respect for understanding that my father or son had done everything that I had just heard for two months. I would feel, I guess if that's the type of mom or parent you are good in your heart that your kid's not going away for life. But I certainly wouldn't stand and applaud him like, you are king, sir. Standing ovation, sir. Brilliant what you just did. Hit her again. Give me another video. Actually pull the one with a freak off where Cassie's choking on piss so your daughter can watch it one more time. There's no accountability over there. And the money will come back and the shit will get more reckless. And Kanye and Diddy and Trump and Trump might pardon him. We could see that on the final amount of the charges. If that doesn't happen, I think the judge is probably pretty disturbed and I don't think like time served would be his direction, if he's a fair guy.

[Mark Agnifilo]

I agree with you on that. The judge does seem to be shook by a lot of stuff he's been speaking and hearing in the trial. So I. Yes, I agree with you.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I mean, just the fact that Diddy raised his hand to speak with him about his decision, Crazy. That's crazy talk.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

He's manipulative.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Very, very, very. But. But I think. I think reform for them isn't in the pictures. I think revenge and slowly. And, you know, not on video and not with your fingerprints on the Molotov cocktail, certainly. But, like, I think it's. I don't think it's going to be good. I'm not high up on that list, but I know everybody. Know everybody. That is silver lining, tj. God, I've been asking myself that for days now. Silver lining.

[Mark Agnifilo]

I mean, these have been coming. I mean, with the Amber Heard, Johnny Depp, even with you go back to. I mean, the Me Too movement. We were supposed to learn something and do better on the next one that came around, I guess. What can we all do better?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I spoke with the woman. I spoke with a person that spoke, interviewed the woman who started Me Too, about this trial. And she said sexual abuse charges are rarely ever brought to a federal level. They're almost impossible to try because of the piece that lost them on this side, which is that coercion piece. Who do you believe? The person, this one or that one. Do you believe what they wrote or do you believe what they're telling you they intended when they wrote something? They're just so hard to prove. And it's always the. It's always. Do you believe this person? Yeah. You know, we believed Cassie, and then unfortunately, we had to believe Jane Doe, and she made it very hard to even, like, see it any other type of way. I think on purpose that girl should stay in hiding or. So she'll probably be at Diddy's house with young Miami waiting in a vat of baby oil. But I think the silver lining is what she said. These sexual abuse cases against women rarely get tried at federal levels. We're not winning them yet. Women are never made president, but we've had some pretty great ones try. Unfair shit is happening in the workplace that is disturbing, disgusting, and downright abusive. And it's still occurring. You'd think me, too. And a whole lot of things would have stopped people from putting things in writing that are abusive. Like, you're not worth any of my time. You're not worth a Dollar a cent to even talk to. That was written to me in the past month. It's crazy to put things like that in writing, but unfortunately, there are a lot of people that have power that are still working it in ways that are horrific and disgusting. I think. I guess I'd go with her silver lining for now, but I don't think Diddy's reformed and I think that he got his first victory lap and I think there's more to come. This is not the end.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

I think that could be the positive too. That the fact that, yes, we're talking about it. It's being discussed. There hasn't been a victory, so to speak, but he is behind bars right now and he will stay there for some time. And that's something. It's not everything, but it's something.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And silver lining could be. Look around you and ask people what they feel about this trial. If you're dating a man that's now all of a sudden wearing free ditty shirts and is like out there, can you imagine? Did you see how alive everyone became when he got off on the bigger charges? Y' all were silent. This man didn't have one person to back him. No one to take the stand for him. Nobody wanted to touch him. Nobody in the entertainment. There are people coming forward now, like, Cassie, you was a hoe and you know it. You, you were doing just like him. And both y', all, I mean, dog Funk Master Flex just wrote that in like a. A public message, I would say, like, start watching who's saying what. And women. Take notes. And if you're dating any of them or in sexual relations or. Or emotional relationships with them, be very, very careful or in my opinion, get the away immediately before they take too much of you.

[Elizabeth Wagmeister]

I mean, it is a lesson for a lot of folks out there and women specifically. Aubrey, thank you. Thank you for through this trial helping us understand better. And I hope all of our listeners appreciated just all of the insight that you were able to provide. So thank you, Aubrey. Just want to say thank you all for listening. I'm Amy Robot on behalf of my partner, TJ Holmes and Aubrey o', Day, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming along this journey with us.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Thank you, guys.

[TJ Holmes]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24. 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for us to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our Vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Ian Pfaff]

I'm Ian Pfaff, the creator and host of the Uncle Chris Podcast. My Uncle Chris was a real character, a garbage truck driver from South Carolina who is now buried in Panama City alongside the founding families of Panama. He also happens to be responsible for the craziest night of my life. Wild stories about adventure, romance, crime, history and war intertwine as I share the tall tales and hard truths that have helped me understand Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Amy Robach]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson threw the very first brick, started banging on the.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Door of the Stonewall like one. Boom.

[Amy Robach]

This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Did it occur to you that he charmed you in any way?

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yes, it did. But he was a charming man.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story because this ties.

[Ian Pfaff]

Together the Cold War with the new one.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I often ask myself now, did I.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Know the true Jan at all?

[Ian Pfaff]

Listen to hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Iheart Podcast before social media, before cable news, there was Alan Berg.

[TJ Holmes]

He was the first and the original.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Shock, shock, that scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people and telling them that you're an idiot and I'm going to hang up on you. This is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. And he pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, there are probably 2 million suspects. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.