Charlie Kirk Shooter Caught, His Dad Did Him In

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present

Episode Title: Charlie Kirk Shooter Caught, His Dad Did Him In
Release Date: September 12, 2025
Hosts: Amy Robach & TJ Holmes
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

In this intense and emotionally charged episode, Amy Robach and TJ Holmes break down the dramatic capture of Tyler Robinson, the 22-year-old Utah man accused of fatally shooting conservative commentator Charlie Kirk. The hosts discuss how the suspect was ultimately turned in by his own father, explore the family’s crisis, examine the unusual details of the case—including the messages found on the bullet casings—and reflect on broader themes of division, tribalism, responsibility, and tolerance in America.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Capture: Family’s Crucial Role

• The episode opens with the breaking news: Tyler Robinson was arrested for the murder of Charlie Kirk after 33 hours of manhunt.
  • [03:10] TJ: “It took 33 hours over three days, but they got the guy who they say shot and killed Charlie Kirk.”
• Key detail: It was Robinson’s own family—particularly his father—who recognized signs, confronted him after sensing something was wrong, and ultimately worked with a family friend, a pastor, and authorities to bring him in.
  • [03:36] Amy: “…a matter of family members recognizing him, finding some sort of similarities to what they were seeing on the news and … he confessed to his family that he … was the shooter.”

2. Trump Breaks the News Before Officials

• The hosts express surprise that Donald Trump was the first to announce the arrest, pre-empting official police statements.
  • [04:46] Amy: “…President Trump announced it to the world on Fox and Friends. … he used words like he was fairly certain… we were still waiting for the official word…”
  • [05:53] TJ: “He has been the source … [for] the latest information in this case, which has not been anything I’ve ever seen before.”

3. Emotional Toll and the Father's Dilemma

• Deep empathy expressed for the father forced to choose between protecting his child and doing what’s right, especially as death penalty charges loom.
  • [09:00] Amy: “I just put myself in that position and cannot even imagine … you’re actually having to now say, do I do the right thing? But in doing the right thing, I am essentially killing my son.”
  • Father first confided in a family pastor before (possibly with the pastor’s help/blessing) contacting police—highlighting both emotional and ethical complexities.

4. Suspect’s Motive and Background: A Picture Emerges

• Tyler Robinson is described as having become “more political in recent years.”
• No warning signs suggesting intent for violence were apparent beforehand—just family recollection that he “didn’t like” Charlie Kirk or “things he said.”
  • [13:05] Amy: “Where you would be concerned that your son or your family member might do something extreme or take matters into their own hands.”
• Family and roommate both cooperated with police, providing digital evidence tying Robinson to the crime, including specifics about the weapon.

5. The Gun & Bullet Casings: Strange Messages and Potential Copycat

• The hosts are riveted by the detail that shell casings from the weapon had unusual phrases inscribed on them, echoing earlier infamous shootings.
  • [14:10] TJ: “A key part of this investigation, a key part of this rifle, this weapon has to do with the shell casings and the bullets. They had writings on them.”
• The hosts draw a parallel to the Luigi Mangione/UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting in NYC, where bullets had references to insurance industry practices written on them (e.g. “Deny, Depose, Defend”).
  • [20:22] Amy: “…engraving on the bullets is it was a reference to a book about the Insurance company…”

Notable Phrases Engraved on Shell Casings:

• “Hey fascist, catch” (potentially referencing Kirk as a fascist) [21:22]
• “If you read this, you are gay. lmao” (described as childish, possibly intended to provoke or insult) [21:22]
• “Oh, bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao, ciao, ciao” (lyrics from the Italian resistance song “Bella Ciao,” with layers of revolutionary and historical significance) [23:20]
• “Notices bulges O W O. What’s this” (an internet meme expression, confusing even the hosts) [25:06]
• Arrow symbols (“a right arrow symbol and three down arrow symbols”) [25:42]
  • [25:29] TJ: “Internet meme phrase?... It’s some Internet meme situation…”

6. Interpretations, Motive, and Puzzlement

• Hosts openly puzzle over these inscriptions, mixing derision (calling some “juvenile”) and bewilderment at the crossing of earnestness and digital-age irony.
  • [26:10] TJ: “What is he, 12? Like it seemed like very childish gay thing.”
  • [24:56] TJ: “How those words end up on the casing of a bullet meant for Charlie Kirk is something I would love to get answered.”

7. Governor Cox’s Press Conference and Reflections on “Us vs. Them”

• Utah Governor Cox delivers an emotional speech at the press conference, saying he “hoped it wouldn’t be one of ours” who committed the crime—prompting the hosts to reflect critically on this tribalistic response.
  • [27:32] Amy: “…isn’t that the issue? Tribalism, us versus them. …we should all unite and talk… But then he completely went straight to tribalism by saying, I was praying that it wasn’t one of us. And sadly my prayers weren’t answered…No, it’s all of us.”
• [29:07] TJ: “He’s one of all of ours. Where did we in New York fail? Some kid in Utah, I don’t know. But we’re all a part of this mess.”

8. Takeaways: Tolerance, Responsibility, and Moving Forward

• Amy and TJ finish with a personal call for greater tolerance, self-reflection, and acknowledgment of individual responsibility—especially in how children and communities are influenced.
  • [30:02] Amy: “I know so many of us feel helpless…the red flags and the warning signs we missed…all I feel like I can do…is to be more tolerant…to not jump to assumptions or judgments…And kids…what we do and what we say matters…”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:36] Amy: “…he confessed to his family that he in fact was the shooter.”
• [09:00] Amy: “What do you do as a father? …in doing the right thing, I am essentially killing my son.”
• [12:33] TJ: “He has become…more political in recent years…they released today [that he] didn’t like him, didn’t like things he said…nothing …rose to the level of thinking this guy was radical.”
• [14:10] TJ: “A key part of this investigation…has to do with the shell casings and the bullets. They had writings on them.”
• [21:22] Amy: “…the one that really stood out was ‘hey fascist, catch.’ That’s very scary. So that speaks very clearly to motive.”
• [23:20] TJ: “…the song and the engravings, it said on the casing, according to the Governor. Oh, bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao, ciao ciao…”
• [24:44] Amy: “People were in the windows singing…that was one of the songs that carried a lot of Italians…They would lean out…and sing, bella, ciao, bella, chow, bella, chow, chow, chow.”
• [27:32] Amy: “Isn’t that the issue? Tribalism, us versus them. …No, we’re all humans.”
• [29:07] TJ: “He is one of all of ours. …The act was evil, but what is he, I wonder? Can we ever separate the act from the actor?”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:10 – 04:06] – Suspect identified and sequence of arrest
• [04:46 – 05:25] – Trump preempts official police announcement
• [09:00 – 11:06] – Father’s moral dilemma, role of pastor, family process
• [13:12 – 14:10] – Family’s insights into the suspect’s motivation
• [14:10 – 15:32] – Details about shell casing engravings
• [21:22 – 26:10] – Specific engravings, hosts’ reactions, meme references
• [27:32 – 29:47] – Governor’s statement, hosts’ critique of “us vs. them”
• [30:02 – 31:01] – Tolerance and individual responsibility

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Tone and Final Thoughts

Amy and TJ approach the episode with a mix of journalistic curiosity, empathy, personal reflection, and frank critique. While clearly shaken by the details, they maintain the conversational, occasionally humorous, and deeply human tone characteristic of their style. The inscribed messages on the shell casings stand out both for their gravity and for their perplexing, sometimes juvenile, nature—encapsulating both the seriousness and the absurdity in contemporary American tragedies.

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Overall:
A compelling, thought-provoking episode that moves beyond the headlines to emotionally and philosophically interrogate the meaning, motives, and lessons embedded in a shocking crime—and calls for Americans to reflect on their own roles within an increasingly fractured society.

Transcript

[Amy]

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[TJ Robes]

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[TJ Robes]

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[Amy]

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[TJ Robes]

Hey there, folks. It is Friday, September 12th. It took 33 hours over three days, but they got the guy who they say shot and killed Charlie Kirk. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. The headline is that he was arrested last night, 10 o' clock local time in Utah. But there's a 22 year old man from Utah and his name is Tyler Robinson.

[Amy]

And Tyler Robinson was brought into custody by members of his own family. A family friend also involved and one of his friends as well also gave information to police. So this was a matter of family members recognizing him, finding some sort of similarities to what they were seeing on the news and what they were hearing from him and put two and two together. And according to authorities, he confessed to his family that he in fact was the shooter.

[TJ Robes]

And people are trying to piece together right now as much as they can about Tyler Robinson, who he is, where he's from, what his ideology might have been and what his motives might be. Right now, all police are saying is that this is the guy. They are sure this is the guy. They don't expect any other arrests to be made. They don't believe anyone else was responsible, but they did not speculate, at least at this point, about a potential motive. Now, Robes, this was an interesting morning because we got up and did our regular daily news podcast, Morning Run. Still, no one had been caught. By the time we finish, by the time we get done with that, we see Donald Trump show up on Fox and Friends and made himself comfortable.

[Amy]

That's right. So you said when we woke up and we recorded Morning Run, no one had been arrested as far as we knew. The truth is someone had been arrested. And yes, President Trump announced it to the world on Fox and Friends. And that is how we found out. And he wasn't even 100%. He used words like he was fairly certain, like it wasn't. So we were still waiting for the official word, even though he did say that it looked like they had their guy.

[TJ Robes]

And. But at that point, it was everywhere and every network had picked it up. You, I'm sure you all got the breaking news alerts and all of them had to say this, Trump says that the shooter has been caught.

[Amy]

I noticed at the press conference when we finally did get word from officials, they said, you may have heard that Trump reported. It's almost as if in this story, from the moment that we found out Charlie Kirk had died, it was from Trump. We found out there was someone under arrest from Trump. He has been the spokesperson, so to speak, and the reporter of the latest information in this case, which has not been anything I've ever seen before, he.

[TJ Robes]

Has been the source and it's let you know, I mean, I don't know if he insisted on it, but how close he is to this guy, to this story and what it means to him personally. Now, we had at that point, once he showed up, it was around 8 o' clock Eastern Time that he sat down and he was at Fox and Friends in the studio here in New York. He had been here with the 911 commemorations over at Yankee Stadium last night. You could tell he was comfortable, he was sitting down, he had better energy, looked like he got a little rest, but he was comfortable. They were trying to get information from him about the shooting and he was on for an hour. He tried, they tried and tried. And he just seemed like he didn't have a lot of information and he was almost tiptoeing around. So maybe he didn't have a lot of details, but it didn't seem like he was that sure in that moment.

[Amy]

It's true. But it is funny, you mentioned, and it's true, you said it when we were watching, look how much different he looks than he did 24 hours ago when we saw him at the Pentagon. He looked defeated, he looked exhausted, he looked sad, he looked, he didn't look good. And today it was like a new Trump had emerged. And perhaps it is because he knew, and he actually got sleep last night because he knew the man responsible for murdering Charlie Kirk, in his opinion, was now apprehended behind bars and justice was going to be served. And that might have allowed him a good night's rest.

[TJ Robes]

So he was. So, yes, he probably did get word last night. But again, most of us went to bed not knowing they had this person in custody. This would have been after midnight, really, on the East Coast. Correct time this took place. So the President's there on Fox and Friends going on for an hour about a wide range of all kinds of stuff. Now, meantime, there was a press conference that was scheduled in Utah for 9am Eastern time. So again with the timing, the President sits down with Fox and friends live at 8am Eastern press conference with an update about the shooting, supposed to be at 9am Eastern. And Rose, that didn't happen.

[Amy]

No. In fact, you said ain't no way this press conference is happening when they say it's happening because President Trump is still on Fox and Friends. And so I, I'm sure that, well, we, we can only Guess that that is part of the reason why we initially got a, a 30 minute delay around 9, 10, and then they didn't actually start talking until after, just after 10pm sorry, 10am Eastern time. So a full hour behind schedule and change.

[TJ Robes]

And once they started talking, these were the new details we got. Now we did hear from the Utah governor, Governor Cox out there, and also FBI Director Cash Patel was at the press conference. But all the questions about how they got this guy, why it was so important with the video and the pictures and everything that went out. So this is how they say it went down. It was the family, wasn't the public. They say they have gotten 11,000 leads having to do with this case. They have to track them all down. But in fact it was the family members in particular. Now, Robes, reportedly the father of the suspect who had gotten suspicious, talked to his son about it. And this is where I think Governor Cox used the word confessed. That the suspect either confessed or certainly implied that's the impression that the dad got that his son was the shooter.

[Amy]

I just put myself in that position and cannot even imagine because obviously we have heard for now two days in a row that 100% law enforcement will be seeking the death penalty in this case. So what do you do as a father? You have your son, you're suspicious, you confront him, he confesses in some way, form or fashion to you, and then you're, you're actually having to now say, do I do the right thing? But in doing the right thing, I am essentially killing my son. And from what we gathered from the press conference, the father reached out to a family pastor for help. And that actually makes a lot of sense. I can absolutely understand how that would be. The next phone call, the first phone call probably wouldn't be to police. It would be to get counsel and maybe even spiritual or religious counsel. Because what an unbelievable position to be in as a parent who loves their child no matter what they do or did.

[TJ Robes]

Yes. Incredible. You think maybe your first call would be to a lawyer, but it just tells you something maybe about this community, this family and, and maybe just how torn to your point, because you asked me that question, I hadn't considered. You're. Yeah. You call.

[Amy]

What would you do?

[TJ Robes]

You are sentencing your child to death if you call the police and needing spiritual counsel. Makes sense. Wow.

[Amy]

I, I just. That, that is, that has got to be such a tough position. But in fact. So through that reach out to the pastor, I believe it was. Did you gather that the pastor then called police? Yes. Because is There a duty at that point or is there? I mean, I know priests have confidentiality, so I'm, I don't know how it works in other religions if there's a, a legal understanding that you don't have to, you aren't forced to contact police. I know priests and therapists perhaps are in that situation. But if you think there's a threat to anyone else's life, I don't actually know the law on this. But the pastor, what for whatever reason, and perhaps even with the f. Father's blessing, we don't know, the pastor reached out, contacted authorities and that is how this young man, 22 years old, Tyler Robinson, was handed over to authorities.

[TJ Robes]

And we should mention the, the authorities say they don't expect. So as you were pointing out there, ropes like what the rules are as far as the pastor goes, but what are the rules when it comes to the dad as well, what he's supposed to do and obligated to do. What isn't it at that point, if you suspect or if you certainly know you're aiding and abetting at that point.

[Amy]

Correct. And. But they did say they didn't think as of now where the investigation was, that there would be any arrest, including a roommate of Tyler Robinson who had some information as well that we learned about during this press conference as well. But we did get some interesting details, including a recent family dinner where they described hearing Tyler Robinson mentioning that Charlie Kirk was coming to a campus. And this was about three and a half, four hour drive. I believe they mentioned St. George is nearby. I've actually been to St. George. It is quite a distance from Provo or Salt Lake City where he's from, versus it's the southernmost tip to the west of the state.

[TJ Robes]

So it's southwest corner.

[Amy]

It is in the middle of nowhere, to be honest with you. I actually was doing a story on the FLDS and they are in a very remote area of Utah right along the border of Arizona. And this is exactly where he is from that area, Washington county and St. George is the seat of that county. So it, it was quite some distance. But he mentioned that Charlie Kirk would be at the school and that he didn't like him. That's as far as we heard in terms of his opinion on Charlie Kirk.

[TJ Robes]

And to say that again from family members who obviously the police have been talking to quite extensively, but they were giving just little nuggets, little insights that say he has become this family member of theirs, Tyler Robinson, more political in recent years, what does that mean? We don't know. But that was the extent of the insight at least Rhodes we got from his personality and why he might have been upset. But again, the family member, at least what they told us today, the family members said he didn't like him, didn't like things he said, but nothing, at least they released today rose to the level of thinking this guy was radical.

[Amy]

Where you would be concerned that your son or your family member might do something extreme or take matters into their own hands.

[TJ Robes]

We always see the warning signs. And today at least they have not suggested that family members fail to act because they saw something that was alarming.

[Amy]

Correct. And when they did put two and two together and when they did confront him, they ultimately did do the right thing. And, and that was noted. And that had to be so difficult.

[TJ Robes]

And the roommate messages you were talking about as well, they, the roommate, he had had sent the roommate some messages and the roommate had no problem showing the police the messages. And apparently they had specific references to needing to pick up a rifle, where that rifle was going to be, what it was wrapped in or wrapped in a dark towel and described everything in locations perfectly. If that's not guilt, I don't know what.

[Amy]

Yeah, it's, it's pretty undeniable and irrefutable. And the roommate showed it all to police and there was apparently, yeah, some, some chat and some chat group where he was being very specific. And it turns out that is exactly where police did find the, this rifle.

[TJ Robes]

And a key part of this investigation, a key part of this rifle, this weapon has to do with the shell casings and the bullets. They had writings on them. And as soon as we first heard about this, I think a day or so ago, robes, we immediately started to think about the United Healthcare shooting here in New York where he had, I.

[Amy]

Can'T remember, Luigi Maggione.

[TJ Robes]

What did he write on?

[Amy]

I can't remember. I can't remember either. But it was very specific to the crime he committed in his anger at insurance companies. It, it was, you know what, I have to come up with it. But it certainly linked him to the crime and spoke to the motive behind it.

[TJ Robes]

And. Well, folks stay here because authorities did share with us what the casings had written on them in this case. And we almost fell out of our seats because one of the messages on one of the shell casings happens to be a message that's in one of my absolute favorite songs. Check out the intense new season of Reasonable Doubt Streaming on Hulu. September 18th. LA's most sought after and successful defense attorney Jax Stewart has seen it all, but now she'll face her toughest case yet when she defends a young actor loved by millions and accused of murder.

[Amy]

Join Jax as she takes on the district attorney, the press and even her own partners to prove his innocence. The jury's verdict will determine Jax's future and the fate of her client. Follow Emma, Yazzie Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sikora and guest stars Cash Dahl, Lori Harvey and more as they fight their personal battles in the spotlight of the year's most sensational murder trial.

[TJ Robes]

In the pursuit of justice, every move counts. Reasonable Doubt Season 3 is streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney September 18th Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

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[Ed]

My name is Ed. Everyone say hello Ed.

[TJ Robes]

Hello Ed.

[Ed]

I'm from a very Rural background myself, my dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin. So like it's not like.

[True Crime Producer]

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago.

[Ed]

I just normally do straight stand up, but this is a bit different.

[True Crime Producer]

On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear.

[Ed]

On 22 July 2015, a 23 year old man had killed his family and then he came to my house.

[True Crime Producer]

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack where stand up comedy and murder take center stage. Available now listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[TJ Robes]

All right, we're folks back now here on Amy and tj. We got them is how they started the press conference today. The authorities out in Utah today saying yes, it was a short time ago before we started recording here that they have in fact found the person responsible for Charlie Kirk's death. He is 22 year old Tyler Robinson of Utah. He is in custody now. A family member helped facilitate his arrest. And Rose, we were just talking about and it's a big part of this investigation. There were messages on the casings, on the bullets that were found with this weapon, near the weapon. And when we first heard about a couple days ago, we first thought about the United Healthcare killing. There were writings on those bullets. You found it and we couldn't come up with it off the top of our heads.

[Amy]

But it's familiar because it makes you think that, you know, you don't. We don't know this but it makes you think, you know, we talk about copycats all the time. People get ideas from other killers and other shooters. And you wonder if Tyler Robinson saw what Luigi Mangione did and engraved his bullets and maybe decided to do the same thing. He might have been inspired by him because it is kind of eerily similar. Have you heard of this before? Is this at thing that assassins or killers do? I the first time I ever heard of it was with Luigi Mangione.

[TJ Robes]

I've seen it in movies.

[Amy]

So okay, maybe that's what it is. So we did find the words that were on the bullet casings in the killing of the United CEO. Healthcare CEO was deny, depose and defend. And the reason why they were, we have all conjectured that those were the engravings on the bullets is it was a reference to a book about the Insurance company. And that is what they do when they are forced to, or they've been sued or they need someone wants money from them to pay for a life saving surgery, et cetera. That this is what the insurance companies do. They deny it, they depose people and then they just defend themselves. They're not about actually serving people and helping people. So it seemed to be a direct link to his motive that he was targeting this CEO of UnitedHealthcare because he was angry at the insurance company.

[TJ Robes]

So we had messages on these bullets and these casings as well. Ropes. He, he reeled off a lot. I couldn't make out a lot of what he was saying, but at least included the ones we could.

[Amy]

Yes, because I was the same. I was like, wait, what did he just say? So the one that really stood out was hey, fascist, catch. That's, that's very scary. So that speaks very clearly to motive. Most people can connect those dots. And then this one kind of threw me. But it sounded like the, the governor said that on one of the bullet casings was, if you read this, you are gay. Lmao. Laughing my ass off. Don't really like, it's. I don't know if maybe he thinks that Charlie Kirk would have been mortified if someone thought he was gay given his religion. I don't know, some sort of a slur like, oh, see, I don't know that that's a tough one to try to dissect or interpret.

[TJ Robes]

And the, the governor who was reeling these off, he, he said I am not going to, he said leave it to you all to try to interpret. So there, they didn't give us much to go on here. But it was, there were a, like, there were a lot. It was, the other one was just defend, depose and whatever.

[Amy]

Deny, deny. Yeah.

[TJ Robes]

Those are just simple phrases. These are like longer phrases.

[Amy]

And I, I took some time.

[TJ Robes]

Yeah. I couldn't make out what he was saying, but they were a lot. Did he say they were on the gun as well?

[Amy]

He said, he said in the. I, I. Okay, so I don't remember that specifically.

[TJ Robes]

But then the one that got us robes and we've spent. I mean I've been listening to this song for a long, long time. There are so many beautiful versions of it. We were in Rome last summer and on our last night we sat at a restaurant right behind us on the church steps. This song was being belted out by a woman live and I just went crazy. The song and the engravings, it said on the casing, according to the Governor. Oh, bella chow, bella chow, bella chow, chow chow he said it said all of that. Not just bella chow. Like the chorus of this very popular and beautiful song. We heard that. We were sitting here, like, what the actual hell?

[Amy]

We looked at each other, and I actually think both of our jaws dropped because we have loved that song for a year now after having visited Rome. You play it probably at least once a week just to get the mood up when we are just, whatever, getting ready to go somewhere, just to kind of create the energy. And we sing it and we laugh, and Sabine loves it too. So just of all the things to be on the engraving, to have it be that. And then we did some research on it, and look, I had no idea the history of this song, but it actually does have quite a bit of history. And it's a. It's a song of revolution. It's a song of rising up. It's a song of new beginning and resistance. Resistance specifically. It was certainly used During World War II among the Italians, but it originated among rice workers, female rice workers in Italy, who they believe were singing to kind of say goodbye to their youth. Goodbye, you know, goodbye, beautiful. It literally. That's how it translates. And so it was. And it just was adopted in the Second World War as a song of resistance.

[TJ Robes]

But the story you tell me about, I didn't remember from COVID This was.

[Amy]

Used during COVID So if you recall where Covid hit northern Italy so horribly. And so people were in the windows singing. Do you remember all those videos and images of all the Italians that would just lean out of their windows and they'd start singing? That was one of the songs that carried a lot of Italians who were sequestered and stuck in their small apartments. They would lean out of their windows and sing, bella, ciao, bella, chow, bella, chow, chow, chow.

[TJ Robes]

If anybody doesn't, you would know as soon as you hear it. It's almost. It's one of those things. It's almost unmistakable.

[Amy]

It feels celebratory. Right.

[TJ Robes]

It's a wonderful song. How those words end up on the casing of a bullet meant for Charlie Kirk is something I would love to get answered.

[Amy]

Yeah. So there is one other inscription. I just found it because this is the one we. We. I couldn't catch it to write it down. It was so bizarre. But I don't know if any one of you listening can have any idea what this might mean, but some. One of the casings said, notices, bulges O W, O. What's this.

[TJ Robes]

Internet meme phrase? What's this to expect? It's some Internet meme situation you all forgive us notices.

[Amy]

I guess we're old people. We don't know.

[TJ Robes]

If Sabine was here, she'd knock this out for us right now.

[Amy]

Yeah. And the other thing with the hay fascist catch. They said it was followed by an arrow symbol up, a right arrow symbol and three down arrow symbols. So this is like hieroglyphics to me. I. I don't know what any of that means. So it's okay. I'm saying. Oh, W references an emoticon. And what's this? Denotes cuteness or curiosity. It's like a gamer thing that, that. So who knows. And I'm sure it'll be dissected for quite some time.

[TJ Robes]

And some of the things we heard, we looked at. Yeah, I think you said it. I think. What is he, 12? Like it seemed like very childish gay thing.

[Amy]

Seemed really like lmao. Like if that seemed incredibly childish and juvenile and. Yeah, I just didn't. It didn't. I didn't understand it.

[TJ Robes]

I didn't understand as well. And look, I know he was having a moment and maybe you'll. Maybe you were moved by it, touched by it or.

[Ed]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Confused by it or maybe you didn't.

[TJ Robes]

Think anything of it at all. But the governor, Governor Cox out there wanted to take a moment and he. Look, it was. I don't know, he wanted little sleep. He had something on his mind he wanted to say and he took, which I think were at least 10, but maybe 15 minutes and almost wanted to do an address to the nation and say a number of things in that moment. It did feel like it went a little long. I don't. Again, in moments like this, you don't want to criticize somebody for what they're going through, the pain, what he's helping his state through and those students through. That's a lot. But he did go on for quite a bit. But something he said that had our ears perk up and I was curious about it. Robes. He said he had the hope that this wouldn't be one of theirs. And when you said. When he said it, before he even finished the next part, you said the thing he was about to address next and you're like, what, it's better if somebody else would have killed?

[Amy]

If it's somebody from Colorado, if it's somebody from Missouri, that that would be better. I think the other issue I took with that and look, again, I do want to give him grace in the sense that he has been up. He said he slept for 90 minutes in the last 33 hours. Anyone who's had sleep deprivation knows you're not firing on all cylinders. And I'm not suggesting that he didn't know what he was saying, but I think if maybe he thought it through. The problem with that is, isn't that the issue? Tribalism, us versus them. We wanted it to not be someone from Utah because then it wouldn't stain our state. No, we're all humans. We, we're all Americans. Isn't that the point we're making? It shouldn't be Republicans versus Democrats, Utahans versus New Yorkers. Like he actually fed into the exact storyline he was trying to dissolve by saying we should all unite and talk through things and work together and violence isn't the option. But then he completely went straight to tribalism by saying, I was praying that it wasn't one of us. And sadly my prayers weren't answered because it turns out it was one of us. No, it's all of us. Humans, people, fine, even Americans. I just, I was scratching my head because I. Maybe he just didn't realize that he was literally actually feeding into a narrative. He was trying to tell us all to rise above.

[TJ Robes]

And we can't help but. And this is the best point, Robes. And that was a great one to make to end on here, hoping he wasn't one of us.

[Amy]

He is one of us.

[TJ Robes]

He's one of ours. He's one of all of ours. Where did we in New York fail? Some kid in Utah, I don't know. But we're all a part of this mess. And whatever created this young man who felt he had to do what he did, like we want to dismiss and say he's sick, he's evil, all these things. The act was evil, but what is he, I wonder? The act was evil. Can we ever separate the act from the actor and realize that he is an American, a human being? He is somebody that we failed somewhere and we got to stop creating those type of Americans.

[Amy]

Agreed.

[TJ Robes]

And so that was tough. We did not discuss this ahead of time, but to your point, he made a 15 minute speech about us all coming together and saying, damn, he ain't one of us, he ain't one of ours. That's a very good point. Ropes.

[Amy]

You know, I think the other takeaway for me, I know so many of us feel helpless, not just with this story, but with so many of these stories of shooters and, you know, the red sign, the red flags and the warning signs we missed. I think where I am right now all individually that I feel like I can do is today, right now is to be tolerant. To be more tolerant when someone says something I don't like, when someone believes something I don't agree with or someone actually I vehemently oppose, to take a beat, to be tolerant to keep my mind open, to not jump to assumptions or judgments. And I think individually we can all do that and we can all take that on as a mission and something that we practice daily. And kids, our kids, younger folks are watching us and what we do and what we say matters. And that's where our power lies.

[TJ Robes]

Well folks, there will be plenty more updates. We will bring them to you. We've been hopping on in front of these microphones an awful lot it seems this week with a lot of updates. We appreciate you always listening to us. Again, top right button of the screen where you see our show page in the Apple Podcast app it says follow click on that. Won't have to go chase down our new episodes. They'll come right to you. But as always folks, we appreciate you listening to us. Frame your robot.com CJ Holmes Talk to you soon. Witness the new season of Reasonable Doubt Streaming on Hulu September 18th. Louisiana's most successful attorney, Jack Stewart, defends a young actor accused of murder.

[Amy]

Follow Emma, Yazzie Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sikora and guest stars Cash Dahl, Lori Harvey and more as they fight their personal battles in the spotlight of the year's most sensational murder trial.

[TJ Robes]

In the pursuit of justice, every move counts. Reasonable Doubt Season 3 is streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney September 18th Hulu on Disney for bundled subscribers, terms apply.

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[Ed]

I just normally do straight stand up, but this is a bit different.

[True Crime Producer]

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story.

[Ed]

Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life.

[True Crime Producer]

This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[TJ Robes]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Listen to Shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

On the new podcast America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell and the DNA holds the truth.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[TJ Robes]

This technology is already solving so many cases.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy]

This is an iHeart podcast.