Clemency Recommended to Death Row Inmate, but Execution Still Scheduled for Next Week!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Clemency Recommended to Death Row Inmate, but Execution Still Scheduled for Next Week!

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Episode Date: November 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Amy Robach and TJ Holmes dive into the high-stakes clemency hearing of Tremaine Wood, an Oklahoma death row inmate scheduled for execution next week. In a rare turn of events, the state parole board recommended clemency for Wood, despite the governor still holding the final decision. The episode unpacks the complexities of the case, the evidence and emotional testimony during the hearing, and reflects on the broader implications for the U.S. justice system.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Case Background and Clemency Surprise

(03:25–04:33)

• Tremaine Wood has been on Oklahoma’s death row for 20 years for the 2002 murder of 19-year-old Ronnie Wiff.
• Wood’s family, the victim’s family, and now the parole board have all stated they do not want the execution to proceed.
• Both Amy and TJ remark on the rarity of a parole board recommending clemency so close to an execution date.

Quote – TJ Holmes (03:25):
“America, y’ all better wake the hell up.”

Quote – Amy Robach (04:08):
“We listened to this clemency hearing in Oklahoma City today and it was fascinating. It was powerful. ...the board would ultimately, in a split decision, recommend clemency. But, but it was really remarkable to hear both sides of this case.”

2. Details of the Crime and Sentencing Disparities

(04:33–06:35)

• The crime involved a robbery-turned-murder involving Tremaine, his brother Jake, and two women who lured the victims.
• Only Tremaine received the death sentence; Jake received life without parole and later died in prison.
• Jake reportedly confessed to being the killer, but only Tremaine faced execution.

Quote – Amy Robach (05:17):
“...he is the only one who was sentenced to death, despite the fact that his own brother ... admitted ... that he's the one he claims to have killed Ronnie Wiff.”

3. Unusual Transparency of the Hearing

(06:35–07:48)

• The clemency hearing was notably transparent, being broadcast over Zoom for public viewing.
• Amy appreciated the unprecedented access, stating it’s rare to witness such proceedings live if not local or involved.

4. Defense: Mitigating Factors & Legal Inequity

(07:48–10:31)

• Tremaine’s defense pointed to deeply inadequate representation at trial; his attorney allegedly met with him only in court, spent two billable hours in 19 months, and struggled with substance issues.
• Key mitigating evidence—like Tremaine’s childhood sexual abuse and Jake’s confession—was withheld from the jury.
• The defense’s pitch was rooted in fairness: did Tremaine even have a fair trial?

Quote – TJ Holmes (09:36):
“That’s kind of remarkable. It’s unconscionable. But ... his attorney never met with him outside the courtroom…two billable hours over a period of 19 months.”

5. Testimonies that Moved the Room

(10:40–13:27)

• Two defense witnesses testified: Tremaine’s 6th-grade teacher, Cindy Birdwell, and his 17-year-old niece, Brooklyn.
• Birdwell described Tremaine as a kind, promising child who she realized, too late, had been “a little boy in pain.”
• Brooklyn described her uncle as her “role model,” acknowledging the irony given his incarceration.

Quote – Amy Robach (11:28):
“My heart was breaking as I was listening to her talk about this bright, smart, promising young student ... She still feels guilty to this day that she didn’t intervene in a different way.”

Quote – TJ Holmes (12:39):
“It was kind of interesting to hear her say, I know it sounds funny to think that somebody on death row could be a role model, but he is.”

6. The State's Case: “Predatory Attack” & Prison Misconduct

(13:27–19:22)

• The prosecution painted Tremaine as a “monster” and “executioner,” recounting how he orchestrated the robbery and murder, and continued violent and criminal behavior in prison.
• They presented evidence: Tremaine’s possession of contraband (cell phones, drugs), gang activity, and a video of him orchestrating an assault on another inmate.
• Dismissed the defense theory that Tremaine and Jake had switched weapons as implausible and manipulative.

Quote – TJ Holmes (13:27):
“The attorney general got up there first, called these ... Called him an executioner. Said what happened that night was a deliberate predatory attack.”

Quote – Amy Robach (16:04):
“Somehow they claim, because of an injury on the brother’s hand ... they decided to switch weapons in the middle of this scuffle ... It’s almost comical.”

7. Evidence of Continued Criminal Activity

(17:36–19:22)

• The state submitted photos of Tremaine with cell phones, drugs, and gang tattoos.
• The most damning: a video showing Tremaine ordering and receiving footage of a beating in retaliation for family harm.

Quote – Amy Robach (18:31):
“Perhaps some of the most damning evidence was the video ... he was asking for this person ... to want him beaten up. ... He wanted the video sent back to him.”

8. Tremaine’s Own Words

(25:57–29:40)

• Tremaine was permitted to speak at the hearing, reading a prepared statement in handcuffs.
• He expressed humility, acknowledged his responsibility in the victim’s death, but described prison as “quicksand” and only vaguely referenced his misconduct behind bars as “mistakes.”
• He appealed to the board to “see something in my life worth value.”

Quote – Amy Robach (27:45):
“He put the blame squarely on himself for this death. And I think that’s really important ... at least he's acknowledging his role in the crime.”

Quote – TJ Holmes (28:55):
“…the quicksand idea is that, yeah, this place, the more you try to fight it, the more it sucks you in ... But he closed, I thought in a strong way. He talked about ... I ask you to see something in my life worth value.”

9. The Law & Sentencing Discrepancy

(30:06–30:56)

• The hosts discuss felony murder doctrine: both Tremaine and Jake were equally culpable by law, even if only one did the stabbing.
• However, only Tremaine received the death penalty, sparking debate about fairness.

Quote – TJ Holmes (30:56):
“People still have a difficult time because what we’re dealing with, two men responsible for the exact same crime ... one who says he did not do it is the only one on death row…”

10. The Vote & What’s Next

(32:00–33:04)

• The parole board voted in real-time: a split decision with the deciding vote granting clemency.
• The governor of Oklahoma, historically reluctant to follow such recommendations, has the final say. Tremaine’s execution date remains scheduled for next Thursday.

Quote – Amy Robach (33:04):
“Wow is right. It’s, it’s going to be remarkable to see what the governor decides and what ultimately happens to Tremaine Wood.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• TJ Holmes (03:25): “America, y’ all better wake the hell up.”
• Amy Robach (09:04): “A death row inmate, it’s hard to believe. They also said that his attorney ... only spent two hours on the case in 19 months.”
• Amy Robach (11:28): “She still feels guilty to this day that she didn’t intervene in a different way, in a better way. Had she known what he was living through at home.”
• Amy Robach (18:31): “Perhaps some of the most damning evidence was the video ... he wanted the video sent back to him.”
• Amy Robach (27:45): “He put the blame squarely on himself for this death. And I think that’s really important ...”
• TJ Holmes (30:56): “People still have a difficult time ... both of them are equally responsible for the crime ... one ... is the only one on death row ...”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:25] – Introduction & context of the case
• [05:17] – Details on the crime and sentencing
• [07:48] – Structure of the clemency hearing; witnesses for the defense
• [09:00] – Defense outlines issues with legal representation
• [10:40] – Impactful testimony from Tremaine's teacher
• [13:27] – Prosecution’s account and portrayal of Tremaine
• [17:36] – Evidence of criminal conduct in prison
• [25:57] – Tremaine’s prepared statement, in handcuffs, at the hearing
• [32:00] – Clemency vote and board’s decision
• [33:04] – Final thoughts and implications

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode is gripping, with raw emotion and a relentless focus on fairness, redemption, and the chilling machinery of capital punishment. Amy and TJ maintain a balance between empathy for the individuals and a critical eye on systemic inequities. The show offers a rare, inside look at a clemency process and the fraught decisions facing those with the power of life and death.

If you missed the episode, this summary brings you into the room—with its heartbreak, tough questions, and moments of humanity set against the backdrop of an unforgiving justice system.

Transcript

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[Hari Kondabolu]

On the podcast Health Stuff we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

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I'm Dr. Priyanka Wali, a double board certified physician.

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And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled Do I have scurvy at 3am and on our show we're talking about health in a different way. Like our episode where we look at.

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Diabetes in the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

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[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maggie Freeling]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[TJ Holmes]

America, y' all better wake the hell up.

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Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

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Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

I'm Eva Longoria.

[Maite Gomez Rejon]

And I'm Maite Gomez Rajan. And this week on our podcast Hungry for History, we talk oysters. Plus the Miami Chief.

[Amy Robach]

Stop sp if you are not an.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Oyster lover, don't even talk to me.

[Maite Gomez Rejon]

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster.

[TJ Holmes]

No way.

[Amy Robach]

Bring back the ostrocon. Listen to Hungry for history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hari Kondabolu]

I'm Jonathan Goldstein and on the new season of Heavyweight. And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a a man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old and a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago.

[Amy Robach]

How can 101-year-old woman fall in love again?

[Hari Kondabolu]

Listen to heavyweight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[TJ Holmes]

Hey there, folks. It is Wednesday, November 5th, and he has been on death row for 20 years. He is scheduled to die by lethal injection next week, but his family doesn't want him to die. The victim's family doesn't want him to die. And now the parole board just a short time ago also said it recommends he not die as well. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Rhodes. We follow a lot of these cases as of late these days, death row cases usually not a whole lot of hope in a clemency hearing. And we usually know how these things are going to go. Got surprised today.

[Amy Robach]

That's right. We listened to this clemency hearing in Oklahoma City today and it was fascinating. It was powerful. And we weren't even sure it was going to go the way it did, that the board would ultimately, in a split decision, recommend clemency. But, but it was really remarkable to hear both sides of this case.

[TJ Holmes]

Well, we always think, right, we for the most part, they don't get clemency this close to an execution, almost never. Governors aren't granting it. Parole boards aren't saying, okay, so it's very little hope. So, yes, it was shocking to sit up and hear it go the way it went. And we're talking about if you don't know the name, you're going to be hearing it probably for the next week. Was now the governor there in Oklahoma has a decision to make. But Tremaine Wood, 46 years old, rose convicted. It was New Year's Day 2002, murder of a 19 year old by the name of Ronnie Whiff and Rove. This was a kind of a night of crime, a mini crime spree with him, his brother and two women.

[Amy Robach]

That's correct. And Tremaine does not deny being a part of what led up to the death of Ronnie Wiff. He admits that he was there along with his brother and as you mentioned, women. But he was the only one sentenced to death out of that group. His brother was sentenced to life without parole. His Brother died in prison a short while ago, 2019. And. But he is the only one who was sentenced to death, despite the fact that his own brother has admitted or did admit that he's the one he claims to have killed. Ronnie Wish.

[TJ Holmes]

So it's a lot of back and forth, and then we'll get into what the two sides are saying about that. But. But yes, the women lure two guys into a hotel room. And then these two guys, Tremaine Wood and his brother came, was supposed to just rob the guys. A violent struggle ensues. He's armed. Tremaine Wood armed with a knife. His brother, Jake Wood, is armed with a gun. The victim is stabbed once and dies. And that is where we are. And there was a discrepancy about who actually did the stabbing. Now, the clemency hearing today was. And I appreciate when they do this, they had a very convenient and very functioning zoom link that everybody could use.

[Amy Robach]

It was wonderful to have that kind of transparency. And I understand why some folks don't want cameras in the courtroom and they don't like a lot of the media attention. But certainly in cases like this where a life is at stake and we're witnessing our government, the process. Yes, we're watching. And it's so rare that you get insight into that, especially when you don't live in Oklahoma City or you aren't able to go to the courthouse. For them to set that up was really, really cool. And it was a learning experience for me. Even though we've covered so many court cases and covered murder trials and even witnessed an execution, I don't believe I've ever actually, in real time, witnessed and listened to a clemency hearing take place.

[TJ Holmes]

Well, certainly I haven't seen one. I don't believe that involved a death row case and one certainly a death row case in which we hear from the death row inmate. Yes, folks, Tremaine woods spoke for himself at one point today in this hearing. And the way they set that up, they gave Both sides robes, 40 minutes. They said, use it how you want to want rebuttal time or you want some. A witness to come up. But you get 40 minutes to do what you want to do and how you're going to split it up.

[Amy Robach]

We appreciated that, too, because if. Because sometimes, as we've seen after. After having just recently covered the Diddy trial, how things can just go on and on and on. This was pretty. Well, it wasn't pretty. It was very orderly and concise. 40 minutes. 40 minutes.

[TJ Holmes]

Two witnesses were there, both for Tremaine Wood, his sixth grade teacher will tell you about her comments that had tears in our eyes at some points. And then a statement read by his 17 year old niece. The victim's family, Ronnie Whiff, they did not take part. However, they have said they do not want this execution to move forward. They have been on the record in saying that. So Tremaine Woodside went up first and Rose. First things first, they say, yep, he was there, he participated, he takes responsibility. That's probably a good thing to start with.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And his attorney went on to talk about the difference or just the tale between two brothers. They were both charged in this crime and they said it boiled down to resources. His brother Jake got a good defense team and that fought the execution correctly and certainly was able to get him life without parole versus death sentence. Tremaine, they say, did not. They say his attorney never met with him once outside of the courtroom.

[TJ Holmes]

It's kind of astonishing. That's astonishing.

[Amy Robach]

A death row inmate, it's hard to believe. They also said that his attorney, and this has been documented, they claim was dealing at the time with substance abuse issues and that he only spent two hours on the case in 19 months. And Wood's attorney says, we know this is true because literally there were two billable hours over a period of 19 months. That's how much time he put into defending a death penalty case.

[TJ Holmes]

That's kind of remarkable. It's unconscionable. But they say that is what happened. They continue to make their case, at least why clemency is warranted here. Uh, they say the jury in his trial didn't hear a couple of things, including the fact that his brother admitted that he was the one who actually killed Ronnie with. Jury never heard that. They also didn't hear that Tremaine was sexually abused by a neighbor when he was 9 or 10 years old. They said that had impact on him. Jury never heard that. Also, his side alleged it was prosecutorial misconduct. So they are. They're kind of made their case. I get some of the. The board members had questions afterwards and it was interesting to hear what parts they were focused on focusing on. Of course, his attorneys. Tremaine was attorneys throwing everything at the wall, see what sticks. But some of them were like, I don't care about this, I don't want to care about that. They seem to focus on did he get a fair trial or not.

[Amy Robach]

Correct.

[TJ Holmes]

Don't care who killed who in the room. Yes. So was there an issue at his trial in which we need to slow down and make sure he gets a fair trial.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And so that was some indication about at least how some members were considering to vote. But then we heard from his teacher, his sixth grade teacher, Cindy Birdwell, and wow, this was this. I, my heart was breaking as I was listening to her talk about this bright, smart, promising young student who was very loquacious, talkative, always wanted to be a part of things, was an excellent student. And just the fact that she said she realized later after the fact that he was a little boy in pain and she missed it, she didn't see it. And she said she still feels guilty to this day that she didn't intervene in a different way, in a better way. Had she known what he was living through at home.

[TJ Holmes]

Let's. I just thought the fact that she was sitting there was remarkable. That 35 years ago she had a 12 year old or whatever in her classroom that she's now sitting trying to help save his life on death row. That's got to be just. You never think of something like that. And to hear her say that she saw his name in the paper as being on death row and she knew she had to reach out because she said, nope, that's not him. So something has happened because whoever this is sitting on death row is not that same kid. It was interesting to hear.

[Amy Robach]

And she said that they began writing to one another and they developed a relationship back and forth, pen pals so to speak. But she just spoke so highly of him and wasn't, I don't think he did it. She said he wouldn't have done this, he couldn't have done this. That wasn't who he was. And she spoke about her, his brother being a very different and a bad influence on him. And so she was bolstering up that notion that it was not her student, it was not Tremaine, it was Jack.

[TJ Holmes]

You know, even just a little note in her saying he still to this day won't call me anything other than Mrs. Birdwell. Yeah, there's something about that. There was some, some humanity to that little nugget of information she gave his niece, 17 years old, Brooklyn Wood got up, talked as well and it, it was kind of interesting to hear her say, look, I know it sounds funny to think that somebody on death row could be a role model, but he is said he's helped her through some difficulty. They stay in pretty. Sounds like he has access to a lot of folks he's able to stay in pretty good contact with. But it was to have his 17 year old niece up there who was very steady and read her statement was I. I thought was effective as well.

[Amy Robach]

I did, too. And it was. It was sweet to hear her voice, her young voice there in of her uncle.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay, so all this stuff we're talking about, and you hear our tone, and this was very sweet. And the teacher and all this. And then complete left turn, complete turn. When the other side gets up and starts describing what kind of monster they say this man is. In particular, the attorney general got up there first, called these. Called him an executioner. Said what happened that night was a deliberate predatory attack. He said every time he's appealed, a court has upheld the findings. Now, I thought it was interesting. Robes, he said, this is the same guy behind bars as he is out in the world. They were making the point of so much misconduct and things he's done in prison. They said nothing has changed about this man other than his setting.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Wow.

[Amy Robach]

And his attorney, when she was setting up in defense of him, she acknowledged ahead of time they knew what the prosecution was going to bring, that he had had some misconduct behind bars. And she did say, yes, he has had some cell phones and yes, he's. He's done some things that he shouldn't have. We'll get into some of what those things are in a bit. But she just made the. She kind of pre. Acknowledged what they were going to say and then said, but none of those offenses rise to the level of someone who should be executed.

[TJ Holmes]

Yes. And true. And the board members, like, that's not the point.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, exactly.

[TJ Holmes]

It's not what we're getting at here.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. So we had the assistant AJ Go through the actual night of the crime.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah. Now, she was the one who was making the case here that, look, this is. They made two cases. The guy who was on the outside and the guy who was on the inside. So she was talking about the crime itself, and she went through the steps. Look, this was a deliberate act. He. He asked his friends to go buy gloves and ski masks. They use this to go rob a pizza joint. They got the money they needed, and it wasn't necessary. And then he beats the guy, the owner of the restaurant. And while we're talking about this stuff, Robes, they were showing, like, slides of everything up there. So we got a bunch of imagery up there. So they start going through what happens that night. They end up in this hotel room. And Rose, this was a pretty big sticking point all night. Everyone who was a part of this, who saw anything and saw these two men, him and his brother, they Say Tremaine Wood had the knife, robes and his brother had the gun. There's nowhere, anywhere that suggests they ever switched. Except now Jermaine Wood is trying to explain that.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. Somehow they claim, because of an injury on the brother's hand. And whichever hand it was that they used, the implication was that somehow in the middle of this scuffle, in this robbery that had gone or turned violent unexpectedly, they decided to switch weapons in the middle of this scuffle and Jack ended up with the knife and Tremaine ended up with a gun.

[TJ Holmes]

Yes.

[Amy Robach]

That didn't land at all to the.

[TJ Holmes]

Point that they said it was far fetched, to say the least. I, I mean, as they were describing and explaining it, how did the night. How did the weapons get switched? And why would they. There wasn't a good explanation for that, really. Folks, imagine four people fighting. We're all in a small hotel room. This is a, A motel. This wasn't some sprawling suite in a small area. You're fighting and you switch weapons. Here, you take this one. I'll take this.

[Amy Robach]

It's almost comical.

[TJ Holmes]

It kind of is. But that is the point they were making. And also rogues, they had the letter actually up on screen for us to see, in which he wrote his brother when they were in jail, asking him, are you going to tell them that you called me and asked me to come meet you at the store after the fact?

[Amy Robach]

Asking his brother to lie.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Yes.

[TJ Holmes]

The suggestion there is that he was trying to set all this up and said. And again, a theme was about manipulation. This is just what he does. And he's doing it to you one more time.

[Amy Robach]

Right. And so then he talked about. They talked about what has been happening inside prison, that other setting by woods, and what Tremaine has been doing while he's been behind bars. And they say what he's been doing is committing more crimes, multiple conduct violations. In prison. He's been repeatedly caught with cell phones, with drugs. They actually said he was a drug distributor and used the phones to carry on drug trades. And he, they actually put up pictures of him, had a bunch throwing up gang signs. You and I looked at them. Pictures of him with gang tattoos. And these were all pictures he took of himself. Correct. With the cell phones.

[TJ Holmes]

They were showing all this stuff in the middle of this session. I mean, tons. It's not, not like he was posing. Is that him or. No, no, no, no, no. These are selfies. He's a. Yes.

[Amy Robach]

And perhaps some of the most damning evidence was the video.

[TJ Holmes]

The video is Tough. There was a. The video they played was of a beating that happened at another prison. But this was a beating that they say and then look for me would had to admit. And because they have it electronically, he was asking for this person who had hurt a family member of his, I believe killed a family member of his to want him beaten up. And sure enough, he essentially ordered this guy to be beaten. And he wanted it filmed.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. He wanted the video sent back to him.

[TJ Holmes]

Yes. And sure enough, he got it. And they played it in during the hearing today. So when these things went back to back robes, because I was talking to you about it when one side was testifying, say, wow, this is right. This is powerful stuff. And you came back a little while later and listened to the other side. I'm like, wow. Yeah, he's a bad dude.

[Amy Robach]

This is not looking good.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah. But we heard from two sides. But we heard from the man himself. Tremaine Wood did testify at his own clemency hearing today from prison in handcuffs. And he read a prepared statement. We'll tell you what he had to stay. Had to say and then stay. See what I was trying to do there?

[Amy Robach]

That I do. It happens to me all the time. It rarely happens to you. I'm glad to see you're human.

[TJ Holmes]

Say and stay.

[Amy Robach]

Okay, stay with us. We'll be right back.

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[Hari Kondabolu]

On the podcast Health Stuff. We are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley, a double board certified physician, and I'M Hari Kondabolu.

[Hari Kondabolu]

A comedian and someone who once googled Do I have scurvy at 3am on.

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Health stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.

[Hari Kondabolu]

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

What our health says about us and the way we're living.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Like our episode where we look at.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Diabetes in the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[Hari Kondabolu]

How preventable is type 2?

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Extremely. Or our in depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

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Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that like your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible. But like, you don't even know.

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You don't know, you don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in.

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Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[TJ Holmes]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Maggie Freeling]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[TJ Holmes]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Maggie Freeling]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Maggie Freeling]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Hari Kondabolu]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

[TJ Holmes]

That y' all said.

[Amy Robach]

They literally made me say that I.

[TJ Holmes]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[Amy Robach]

They made me say that I poured.

[TJ Holmes]

Gas on her.

[Maggie Freeling]

From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[TJ Holmes]

America, y' all better wake the hell up.

[Guardian Bike Advertiser]

Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Chinatown Sting Narrator]

Hey, I'm Nora Jones and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing along is Back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little bit different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Levy, Rufus Wainwright, Remy Wolf, Marc Rebiet, Mavis Staples. Really too many to name. And there's still so much more to come in this new season, including the powerful psychedelic duo Black Pumas, my old pal and longtime songwriting friend Jesse Harris, and the legendary Lucinda Williams. Listen to Norah Jones is playing along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

You know the shade is always shadiest right here. Season six of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Gisele Bryant and Robyn Dixon is here dropping every Monday as two of the founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac. We're giving you all the laughs, drama and and reality news you can handle. And you know, we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday. I was going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house.

[Amy Robach]

Okay.

[Podcast Announcer]

The sign says my neighbor is a Karen.

[TJ Holmes]

No way.

[Podcast Announcer]

I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know. You are lying. Humongous, y'.

[TJ Holmes]

All.

[Podcast Announcer]

They had some time on their hands. Listen to Reasonably Shady from the Black Effect podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[TJ Holmes]

All right, folks, we continue now with Tremaine Wood, who got some really good news a short time ago. Tremaine Wood, who has been on death row in Oklahoma for the past 20 years now got word that the parole board is is recommending clemency. He is scheduled to die by lethal injection next week, but they have recommended in a split decision that he his life be spared. But it's not up to them. Ultimately. All they can do Robes and this is the case in most places. All they can do is recommend.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And the governor in this state of Oklahoma recently did not go with the recommendation of the clemency board.

[TJ Holmes]

Sure, I can't remember the number, but it's double digits who've been executed since he's been governor and only one has he granted clemency. But yeah, one of the most recent the board split decision said, nope, we do not think this person should be executed. The governor did not go along with that recommendation. So it is not guaranteed here what's going to happen to him and robes. It was the moment they gave him 20 minutes. But part of the hearing today was Tremaine Wood getting to speak for himself. He was sitting In a. It's kind of an empty room. No, really backdrop, cement walls. It might have been, but at a table with his attorney next to him. But they swarm in and I don't know what I was expecting, but sure enough they swarmed him, lift up his hands and he was handcuffed. Wow. For this today, whatever procedures, I understand. I don't know why that threw me, like, for this. But, yeah, sure enough, he was handcuffed and he started to read a prepared statement. And I was saying to you, Rose, he didn't really change his tone or wasn't that passionate. He just got through it and read it and some stuff you could expect to hear.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, he talked about his great level of humility and, and respect for the process. And then this was important. He put the blame squarely on himself for this death. And I think that's really important because up until now, I mean, even if you claim you didn't or you weren't the one to actually put the knife through Ronnie Wiff's heart, at least he's acknowledging his role in the crime. And if he hadn't been trying to rob him, that certainly he would likely be alive today. So that was an important part of the process, that he at least acknowledged his role in the death. But then he called prison quicksand. He said sometimes you can lose your way in here. That's not exactly taking responsibility for his actions in prison.

[TJ Holmes]

He vaguely acknowledged mistakes and things he's done in prison, but it's kind of a one off. And an oops is how he described it. The other side had pictures and evidence and showings and from drugs, right? Copious amounts of drugs from recent years and from past years. That's been going on for quite a while.

[Amy Robach]

Decades, it sounds like.

[TJ Holmes]

And so some of that. But the quicksand idea is that, yeah, this place, the more you try to fight it, the more it sucks you in. Was kind of a thing he was explaining. And I'm sure he's. He's right. I'm sure he is. But he closed, I thought in a strong way. He talked about. He kind of acknowledged, I know my family's listening. He was talking about how supportive they are and what he means to the family, how they need him around. But he said to them, I ask you to see something in my life worth value. Look, maybe they will, maybe they won't. Maybe this, that none of that matters and they're just going by the law. But I thought that was well said, say that and be used in so many Facets of all of our lives.

[Amy Robach]

Interesting, because obviously the clemency board, the parole board is looking at the legal aspects of this. But I wonder how much of the emotional, human aspects of this come in and how big of a statement or how much of an impact a statement like that has. It probably depends on the individual. And I don't even know what the guidance is. Are they allowed to consider that or do they just have to consider the law as they see it?

[TJ Holmes]

And the law. I. We should. I meant to say this earlier. It's similar to the. What's the thing you're saying? Always forget it. South Carolina, the hand of one.

[Amy Robach]

The hand of one is a hand.

[TJ Holmes]

Of all that thing. It's a similar law, if you will, in Missouri.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[TJ Holmes]

That both of them are equally responsible for the crime because they were both there in the commissioning of a robbery. Somebody died. So both of them are responsible equally. Doesn't matter who stabbed whom.

[Amy Robach]

I actually, my first murder trial I ever, ever reported on was in South Carolina. And it was a hand of one is the hand of all. And this kid was not the one who pulled the trigger, but he was with the group with someone who did. And he got, you know, capital murder, death penalty.

[TJ Holmes]

So. So here is the thing. People still have a difficult time ropes because what we're dealing with, two men responsible for the exact same crime, on trial for the exact same crime, convicted of the exact same crime, first degree murder. One of them says they did it, the other one says they did not do it. But the one who says he did not do it is the only one on death row that was ever given the death penalty. So that for a lot of people doesn't make sense at all. At all. And the bottom line is the law is being applied the way the law is. It doesn't just. Two juries saw it differently. Wow.

[Amy Robach]

And two brothers.

[TJ Holmes]

Two brothers, yeah. So he's got. It's next Thursday, right?

[Amy Robach]

It's next Thursday is his scheduled execution in Oklahoma. And I'm not sure when or I guess the governor has until the last moment to decide whether or not he wants to grant clemency.

[TJ Holmes]

You can. That.

[Amy Robach]

That's why you can go up to the 11th hour. There is a phone, at least the one eyewitness. There literally was a phone right next to the gurney where it was taking place. And we said split decision. It was fairly dramatic how it went down. And the clemency board, they. The parole board, they voted immediately.

[TJ Holmes]

Oh, yeah. I'm always fascinated by that. They don't take a beat. They don't even take an hour, half hour. They get these decisions pretty quickly. But the way they were, this, the board, I think it was five men. Might have been one woman, but I think it was five men. But you see them sitting at this long table is what the shot showed. But it was time to vote. They did this roll call and the first person on the end, yes. Next person, no. Next person, yes. Next person, no.

[Amy Robach]

And you know, he needs three yeses in order for him to be granted clemency.

[TJ Holmes]

The last one, it was going to be the decider. And sure enough, it was a yes. There was a little bit of a reaction in the room emotionally, but they told him to be quiet. But that was it and those guys were out of there and that was the end of it. So. Wow.

[Amy Robach]

Wow is right. It's, it's going to be remarkable to see what the governor decides and what ultimately happens to Tremaine Wood. He obviously is not looking to get out. He's not trying to get out of being punished or incarcerated. He, he just doesn't want to die. Next week and we will keep you updated on this developing story, but thank you for listening. In the meantime, I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes. Hope you all have a great day.

[Hari Kondabolu]

On the podcast health stuff. We are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

I'm Dr. Priyanka Wali, a double board certified physician.

[Hari Kondabolu]

And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled do I have scurvy at 3am and on our show we're talking about health in a different way. Like our episode where we look at.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Diabetes in the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[Hari Kondabolu]

How preventable is type 2?

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maggie Freeling]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[TJ Holmes]

America, y' all better wake the hell up.

[Guardian Bike Advertiser]

Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Chinatown Sting Narrator]

In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia.

[Guardian Bike Advertiser]

Had 30 agents ready to go with.

[TJ Holmes]

Shotguns and rifles and you name it. Five, six white people pushed me in the car. I'm going, what the hell?

[Guardian Bike Advertiser]

Basically your stay at home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin.

[Hari Kondabolu]

All you gotta do is receive the package. Don't have to open it, just accept it. She was very upset, crying. Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw the flash of light.

[Chinatown Sting Narrator]

Listen to the Chinatown sting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts.

[Michael Lewis]

Michael Lewis here. My best selling book the Big Short tells the story of the buildup and burst of the US housing market back in 2008. A decade ago, the Big Short was made into an Academy Award winning movie. And now I'm bringing it to you for the first time as an audiobook narrated by yours truly. The Big Short story what it means to bet against the market and who really pays for an unchecked financial system is as relevant today as it's ever been. Get the Big Short now at Pushkin fm Audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold.

[Amy Robach]

I'm Eva Longoria.

[Maite Gomez Rejon]

And I'm Maite Gomez Rejun. And this week on our podcast Hungry for History, we talk oysters. Plus the Miami Chief stops by.

[Hari Kondabolu]

If you are not an oyster lover.

[TJ Holmes]

Don'T even talk to me.

[Maite Gomez Rejon]

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster.

[TJ Holmes]

No way.

[Amy Robach]

Bring back the ostrichon. Listen to Hungry for history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.