D. Woods Testimony

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Episode: D. Woods Testimony
Release Date: June 25, 2025
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Guests: Aubrey O’Day (Danity Kane alum) and Dawn Richard (Danity Kane alum)

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial," hosted by iHeartPodcasts, former Danity Kane members Aubrey O’Day and Dawn Richard delve deep into the high-profile trial involving Sean "Diddy" Combs. The episode offers an insider's perspective on the proceedings that have captivated the nation, intertwining personal anecdotes with critical analysis of the trial's implications.

Recounting Experiences in Danity Kane

Aubrey O’Day initiates the discussion by addressing the emotional toll of following the trial transcripts daily, expressing her overwhelm with the information. She shares her and Dawn’s firsthand experiences within Danity Kane, highlighting the stark contrast between the public image of glitz and glamour and the underlying struggles they faced.

Notable Quote:
Aubrey O’Day ([02:07]): "I have to follow literally transcript to transcript all day long. So I'm like overwhelmed with the amount of information that I know."

D. Woods' Testimony and Lawsuits

The conversation shifts to D. Woods’ appearance in court. Aubrey describes D. Woods’ attire and demeanor on the stand, noting the incongruity between her professional appearance and the serious nature of her testimony. They discuss reports of inconsistent testimonies and how these inconsistencies have affected public perception.

Notable Quote:
Aubrey O’Day ([07:35]): "It was reported widely everywhere that she had inconsistent testimony and kind of came off in court as not credible."

Dawn reflects on the emotional support she received during the trial, mentioning how friends and loved ones avoided discussing the details to protect her mental health.

Notable Quote:
Dawn Richard ([02:07]): "It's really triggering. It's really stomach-turning... people wanted us to take advantage of this opportunity."

Effects of Manipulation and Coercion

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the manipulative tactics employed by Diddy, including body shaming, financial abuse, and coercion. Aubrey shares her personal experiences, detailing how Diddy's demands for physical conformity and control extended beyond professional boundaries into personal degradation.

Notable Quote:
Dawn Richard ([09:30]): "It was demeaning, dehumanizing, like objectification... feeling like I'm just a piece of meat."

Aubrey elaborates on specific incidents, such as Diddy insisting on certain physical appearances and exerting control over the group’s image and performances.

Notable Quote:
Aubrey O’Day ([26:10]): "He hated what black women wearing their natural hair. He always wanted your hair slick down the middle, parted and flat."

The Demise of Danity Kane

The hosts discuss the factors leading to the disbandment of Danity Kane, attributing the downfall primarily to Diddy's manipulative behavior rather than any actions by the group members themselves. They explore internal conflicts, power struggles, and external pressures that contributed to the group's eventual breakup.

Notable Quote:
Aubrey O’Day ([34:57]): "Sean P. Diddy Combs."

Dawn adds that the disruptive influence of Diddy overshadowed any collaborative efforts within the group, further exacerbating tensions and misunderstandings.

Impact of the Verdict on the Music Industry

Aubrey and Dawn contemplate the broader implications of the trial's verdict on the music industry. They express skepticism about whether the outcome will lead to meaningful change, highlighting the entrenched power dynamics that often protect influential figures like Diddy.

Notable Quote:
Dawn Richard ([35:31]): "I think it will make a shift. But how much of a shift or how much more careful? I don't know..."

They also discuss the potential for increased caution among industry professionals, albeit without significant systemic reforms.

Personal Healing and Justice

The conversation turns introspective as Dawn shares her journey towards healing and mental health. She speaks about her upcoming performance, "My Living Room Self," focused on reclaiming authenticity and vulnerability.

Notable Quote:
Dawn Richard ([38:15]): "The name of the show is My Living Room Self... trying to reclaim that most authentic version of yourself."

Aubrey and Dawn discuss the enduring emotional scars left by their experiences, emphasizing the ongoing nature of their healing processes.

Trigger Questions Segment

To lighten the intense discussion, Aubrey introduces a "Quick Trigger" segment featuring rapid-fire questions directed at Dawn. This segment covers a range of topics from personal memories in Danity Kane to opinions on industry practices.

Examples of Interaction:

• Aubrey O’Day: "Most outrageous rule Diddy had for us?"
  Dawn Richard: "No sleep for 72 hours and longer."

• Aubrey O’Day: "Who cried the most during making the band?"
  Dawn Richard: "Drea."

• Aubrey O’Day: "How about wear my hair with grows out of my head?"
  Dawn Richard: "Yes."

This segment provides a glimpse into the personal dynamics and lighter moments amidst the heavier discussions.

Conclusion and Upcoming Events

The episode concludes with Dawn promoting her forthcoming performance at the Public Theater in New York, titled "My Living Room Self." She encourages listeners to support her initiative aimed at fostering authenticity and mental well-being.

Notable Quote:
Dawn Richard ([38:20]): "I have a global live stream if you're not in New York."

Aubrey and Dawn exchange heartfelt goodbyes, reinforcing their bond and commitment to shedding light on the injustices they endured.

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Key Takeaways:

• Insider Perspective: Aubrey O’Day and Dawn Richard provide a candid look into the manipulative environment fostered by Diddy within Danity Kane.

• Impact of Manipulation: The discussion highlights the severe emotional and psychological toll of coercive and abusive tactics employed by powerful industry figures.

• Industry Implications: The trial's verdict is seen as a potential catalyst for increased caution, though skepticism remains regarding substantial systemic change.

• Personal Healing: Both hosts emphasize the importance of mental health and personal healing in the aftermath of their traumatic experiences.

• Authenticity and Empowerment: Dawn’s upcoming performance underscores a movement towards reclaiming authenticity and fostering genuine self-expression.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Aubrey O’Day ([02:07]): "I have to follow literally transcript to transcript all day long. So I'm like overwhelmed with the amount of information that I know."

• Dawn Richard ([09:30]): "It was demeaning, dehumanizing, like objectification... feeling like I'm just a piece of meat."

• Aubrey O’Day ([26:10]): "He hated what black women wearing their natural hair. He always wanted your hair slick down the middle, parted and flat."

• Dawn Richard ([35:31]): "I think it will make a shift. But how much of a shift or how much more careful? I don't know..."

• Dawn Richard ([38:15]): "The name of the show is My Living Room Self... trying to reclaim that most authentic version of yourself."

---

This episode serves as a powerful testament to the resilience of Aubrey O’Day and Dawn Richard, shedding light on the darker aspects of the music industry while advocating for personal and collective healing.

Transcript

[Aubrey O'Day]

This is an I heart podcast.

[D. Woods]

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[Aubrey O'Day]

Amy and TJ presents.

[D. Woods]

Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Hey guys, this is Aubrey o' Day and you're listening to TJ and Amy presents Aubrey o' Day. Me covering the diddy trial. Today I have on my favesy member of dk. I can't even believe it. Ebony and Ivory is what they used to call us on the show. D. Woods, how are you? Hey, Darren. We've been through a lot, huh?

[Dawn Richard]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Hola. Okay, so let's get down to the trial stuff first and just get it out of the way. I obviously have to follow literally transcript to transcript all day long. So I'm like overwhelmed with the amount of information that I know. But as you we both know, we knew what was going on then. We knew what we saw. We knew what the behavior was from what you and I'm assuming, I know you keep busy and I know you stay on the artistic side and the creative side. So I can't imagine that your head is fully into every little moment of this at all. But just from what you've been able to observe, how do you feel it's going and what is your instinct when it comes to whether he's going to get off or not?

[Dawn Richard]

I'm going to be honest, I have not been following the trial. I have tried, actually try my best to not follow it just for mental health sake and spiritual protection sake. It's really triggering. It's really stomach turning. And even the people around me, I think they have been taking care to not bring it up to me because they know how it would probably hearing the news and hearing the details and I think even like, you know, parents and loved ones, they may even feel a sense of guilt because in the time being, nobody knew what we were really dealing with and what atmosphere we were really in. And I think what people wanted was for us to take advantage of this opportunity. Just everybody was just talking about the opportunity and the chance and the dream. And it was like we didn't even.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Get questions like, are you safe?

[Dawn Richard]

Exactly.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That wasn't in anyone's conversation. It was like, oh, my God, what does it feel to be around him? Oh, my God, you're the luckiest person. Oh, my God, you made it. Like, all the girls that didn't make it that were always a little salty along the way, whenever we'd run into them, like, they look at us like, we're so lucky. And. And as time moved forward, we would always be like, yeah, yeah. And then get back together. Like, you're kind of lucky you didn't make it, but okay.

[Dawn Richard]

And then the other thing is, like, you know, people telling us how to. How to be smart about the situation. You got to be business minded. Or there was another, you know, take on it where people will basically blame us for the predicament that we were in. Like, well, it comes with the territory. I mean, you knew what you signed up for. I mean, you would you willing to do whatever to get, you know, fame, and you were willing to do what you need to do, you know, to get, you know, whatever you wanted.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You and I represent two very different. We are very different women from different places, grown up different ways. Did you ever know any of the things that were going on? Is that ever anything you wanted and what you knew you needed to do in order to get there? I'm assuming the answer is absolutely not.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah, absolutely not.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I mean, same with me, but one of our band members, we learned otherwise about. But I know for you, as your roommate, the entire time, that's not the energy you were on. And what I saw you thinking it took was sitting in the closet. I remember you would go huddle up in the closet and put on your beat pad or your whatever machine you had back then, and you'd be making tracks and writing tracks and making music and just always. I remember that. Do you remember the closet you would go into had good acoustics?

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah, like.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Like that's not where we. Me and you were at me and you weren't having those types of conversations. Unfortunately, as you, you know, told everyone on hbo, those conversations did start to enter the chat in our bedroom. Like when we would share our bedroom during, you know, just so everyone's clear, we shared bedrooms because clearly Diddy doesn't really like to share a whole lot. And so when they put us up, they would put everybody in rooms together so they could save money. And it was always Drea and Shannon and it was always Dee woods and I. And then dawn was always by herself, Right.

[Dawn Richard]

Well, it start. Remember, it started out with us kind of like rotating the single room. Like.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah.

[Dawn Richard]

You know, taking turns. But then it just ended up being dawn always taking the single room by herself.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. So speaking of Don, she took the stand. I reported she showed up in a three piece suit, vest, full blown blazer with diamonds on the collar. Something a lawyer, good lawyer, as good as hers would absolutely advise. Isn't the look, you know, Cassie's. She's worth millions and she still played it low key on the stand. She could have come from head to toe in Versace. You're not really the kind of common knowledge in law just growing up with lawyers is you don't wear name brands when you're on the stand testifying as a victim. You don't style yourself, you don't present yourself, you just stay hump. Everything is a visual and an optic in a courtroom, like Kathy's pregnant belly that they didn't want anyone to see, like puff gray hair. Everything is optics. Like the eight pack of white women, which was Diddy's attorneys big statement to the media when it first came out. That's what he's up against. Optics are everything in a courtroom. So when I saw her go in, I immediately was like, oh no. And then because I'm familiar with her character, I was assuming I was. I honestly was hoping that it would convince me and that I could feel like some relief, feel some relief about some of the worst thoughts that I've had that she's possibly capable of. And then as she started going on the stand, and it was right after Cassie, directly after, like, that's a pretty big seat in a trial. And in that seat, in one story, they caught her in a series of depositions telling a story seven different ways.

[Dawn Richard]

Oh, no.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was reported widely everywhere that she had inconsistent testimony and kind of came off in court is not credible. Did you hear about that?

[Dawn Richard]

I did not hear about her credibility and how she came off. I just knew that she took the stand on a particular day. And you know, I was just. I was getting a lot of text messages. Not, not direct text messages, but just people saying, thinking of you, you're so strong. Are you good? You know that that's all I was getting. So I knew something must be happening because I was getting those kind of messages. Yeah. Okay.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So when her civil case came out, it had all kinds of things in there, but I saw a lot of the things that kind of were on making the band episodes. We weren't able to. We didn't eat, get food regularly. She had lost so much weight. She was unhealthy. She was forced to stay up long hours. She wasn't paid for her music. And then she feels that during a fitting that he was touching on her in a sexual way as they were trying to fit the outfit to her body. Those were the basis kind of of what I understood the lawsuit to be suing for, which are things all of us experience. I never felt when he would come into my fittings and adjust my costumes, I never felt he was doing it in a sexual way. So I can't speak for me personally. I never felt it. I felt like he was coming in, doing his regular, I want those titties up, I want the ass out. Cut those shorter. I want the belly to show. Like, he wanted us to be sexy girl group girls, but I didn't feel like he was getting. He wasn't hard while he was doing it. It wasn't. It didn't feel like a sexual exchange to me. I don't know if you experienced something like that, did you? I didn't.

[Dawn Richard]

I didn't feel the sexual exchange. Or maybe I just was, you know, oblivious to that because we were mad young. And so it's like, you don't think somebody like him or your boss is going to be talking to you. But what I did experience, like you said, was the demeaning, dehumanizing, like, objectification and just really feeling like I'm just like a piece of meat. Just feeling like I'm being tossed to and fro and, you know, no consideration of, like, our humanity and just really taking care of, like, the people who are on. We're all supposed to be on the same team. And he really treated us like we were like. He said to us several different times, you all are not worth the shit. On the bottom of my shoes. I remember that specifically that comment coming.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You want to know when I keep hearing in testimony or in voice messages, baby girl, baby girl, that has me. Every time I hear it, I get chills because, baby girl, what you think this is? What the is this? What is that? Oh, so, baby girl, let me get you. Let me tell you this right now, though. This is what the not the baby girl line is almost like.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You're like, it's. It's so. Yeah, it's interesting because it does. It doesn't sound as horrible as bitch, but that baby girl stick stuck out to me when I kept hearing it with the girlfriends because I was like, he Said that to us all the time. And it was right before he was about to let us know what direction we needed to be coerced into.

[Dawn Richard]

Mm. Do you remember when he wanted us to call him Daddy? When he told us to call him Daddy?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think so. I even remember King and a few other things.

[Dawn Richard]

Mm.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I remember. I remember we went somewhere in Miami, maybe like an NBA all star weekend or something, and there were girls in the limo with us and we were laughing about like Puff's taste and who he had in the. I was. And then he got pissy and. And yeah, he like popped off pretty hard with all of that the King stuff. Talking about he can ride on the backs of. Of humans in Dubai and he can order, you know, like it got very. It turned into I'm King and I could make anything happen. So watch watchers. Like there's nothing I can't do is the way that the. The rant went on. Yes. So. So when I hear they're now calling them Wild King Knights, I was like, oh, that's. You know, we went from freak offs to hotel nights. Now this new girl, it's Wild King Nights. It all sounds about it sounds like the King narcissism bit part of him started to advance when the drugs likely advanced and went as everything started to advance.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So in regards to dawn, were you surprised that she was inconsistent? Did you ever know her to be inconsistent? Honestly?

[Dawn Richard]

Oh, yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay.

[TJ]

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[Aubrey O'Day]

Did you feel, when you read her lawsuit, shocked? It said during our time period, the time periods that were given in the lawsuit. It overlaps with when we're doing our last album. And it overlaps with I was made to fulfill his sexual desires.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah. Unfortunately, even with Cassie's lawsuit, nothing shocked me. It just really sickened me and made me sad. You know what I mean? But I wasn't like, oh, my goodness, I can't believe that happened. Everything was very believable. Like, oh, yeah, I could see that happening.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So you felt like you felt it, Like, I guess because I went on with her for so many years of touring, and we discussed the dirty money era at length. I mean, I got. I know every single person that was hit, thrown, shoved, allegedly, according to everything she said, but she never mentioned all the other. She never mentioned any of that. So to me, I was like, wait a second. I'm hearing everything else you said, but the you were in it factor. And then, like, as I started to go down the rabbit hole and people started reaching out, I learned a whole host of things. I mean, you and I, we don't really gossip, like, you know, like that. And also, it's hard to think of our band member in ways like that. But during your time in the band with Don, there was, like, a high. It was highly contentious between the both of you.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And not on your end, in my opinion, but that's just an onlooker. But there was this. I saw a desire to one up you, a desire to get ahead of you, to rise above you, to be more liked than you. And not just you. I felt it with myself at times as well. But there was a very aspirational side of. Of her personality that I witnessed. And because there were so many stories told that were inconsistent, it all felt like. It felt shocking. And then it felt like, wow, this is like, it's convenient.

[Dawn Richard]

Mm.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Did you feel any of that or how. What's your take on that?

[Dawn Richard]

Well, I did, like you said, you know, the animosity between us grew and grew. And like you said, it was not on my end. And I approached her several times to get us on the same page, because at the end of the day, we're group members. We were in it together. And I told her that. I was like, look, we don't have to like each other. We don't have to be best friends, but let's. Let's get on the same page, because at the end of the day, it's us against them, and they will chew us up and spit us out. And, you know, this is our career at the end of the day. I even remember, remember telling Shannon, there's going to come a time where we will probably have to break up as a group so that we can salvage.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Our careers, you know? Interesting.

[Dawn Richard]

That was before our first album had even come out, because I saw the writing. She definitely was the type of person who didn't want anyone to have anything that she didn't have. It was like it didn't matter if I had it. And she, you know, never even thought about it. Just the fact that I had it and she didn't want me to have it. You know what I mean?

[Aubrey O'Day]

There was never, like, an embrace or, like a true sincere. That's why I think you and I became so close. It's like everyone thinks we were just the same. And me and you are both these people that go out and want to listen. Everybody knows, you know, when we went out, I wanted to go home. You were there networking, getting numbers. You are the best networker I've ever seen in my life. When I go out somewhere, maybe back then I was a little more excited to get dressed up and go out. I hate talking to people and networking and doing all that. You were, like, so clutch for our group because we had 18 numbers we could call for all kinds of things. You would be out talking, making friends, getting connections with stylists, makeup, hair, just people, because you were. You would really love your great networker period.

[Dawn Richard]

And we needed it.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You needed. And also, if all five. If all five of us, if two of them are staying at home and one of them doesn't know how to authentically connect with anyone for whatever reasons are going on, then out of me and you, if you want to do it, girl, go. I'll be your wingman. But when I want to leave, can we please leave? I hate this shit. Like, and you would get us all the numbers. To me, I looked at it like you're an asset. Okay, so moving past that, what is the first thing that you remember feeling that wasn't right behind the scenes? Like, close your eyes and remember. It could be. The first thing I think of when I close my eyes is us sitting outside of an office after being chosen and finding out that there was some conversation being had about Don lying on her contracts and Then we were all brought into a room and kind of told. She lied on some legal documents that we had to sign in order to be a part of making the band. And I remember we were all sitting in the hallway scared because we didn't know who was in trouble or what was going on. And I remember, like, being brought in and being told, like, she's going to be owing him for putting him through that because they had already picked a band. Later on, Johnny kind of gave me the full picture, but he had to pay money to these people, and he had already announced the band. And so what are you going to do? Take someone out and replace them? At that point, you. I guess they didn't feel that that was a thing. That's the first thing I remember seeing, like, oh, this is off. Like, this isn't by the book.

[Dawn Richard]

Well, to that point, because at that time, dawn and I were roommates.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay, so what was that? What happened during all of that?

[Dawn Richard]

I remember that day, it felt very like, oh, we're in trouble. The principal's office. We were in that dark hallway for hours, sitting on the floor.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That's what I remember.

[Dawn Richard]

The dark, scary hallway. Like, not even just, like, no, it was dark. There were no lights on.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I know it was weird. We didn't have camera crews on us. It was the first time we had no camp. Like, there were no camera crew. Somebody was in trouble. Dawn was in there. There was screaming kept coming in and out. I remember, I think tears. I don't know, it was very dramatic. And I remember I would. I didn't know her, so I was like, what is going on?

[Dawn Richard]

Right. I just remember girls coming out of the room in tears, crying, like one after another, like, what is going on in here? And when she came out, she was the. She was the worst mess. And I was like, what did he say to her? You know what I mean? And so I was preparing myself. Like, I was getting ready for the. For the comebacks, for the Slick talk. I was ready, you know, put it on my. My armor, you know, I was like, whatever you got to say, I gotta come back for that. I gotta come back for that. I gotta come back for that, you know? And thankfully, I wasn't even pulled into the room. You know what I mean?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I remember us all going in and him explaining. Explaining to us that she had lied and said that she wasn't in a music deal and she was, and that he's being kind of hustled by that company now, like, pay up and buy this artist from us.

[Dawn Richard]

Or.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Or that's our artist. Johnny told me he had to put up a certain amount of money, and everyone was saying, just replace her. But for some reason, that didn't occur, and he didn't. That wasn't the choice he was making. And I remember all of us being aware, and I remember him saying something like, you'll owe me with. What is it called when you invest in. When you owe somebody interest plus interest? I remember that.

[Dawn Richard]

Well, I. I remember. Okay. So like I said, she was my hotel roommate at the time, so.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. When she went back to the room, did she explain what she said?

[Dawn Richard]

I was asking her. And, you know, I'm holding her hand. We're. We're kneeling on the ground. I'm praying with her. We're playing gospel music. I'm doing all this stuff because as a. As a supporter, and she had just went through Hurricane Katrina as well, you know, so I'm just. I'm just bigging her up. I'm just, like, encouraging her. And I remember telling her, I was like, well, how much are they asking for? And I can't remember the number. I just remember telling her. I was like, girl, if he. I said, if he wants you in the group, he gonna. He got that. I said. I said, he got that in a safe in his office.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So he hadn't made a decision then when we all left that dark hallway, he hadn't made a decision. Probably then, if that's what she said when she got home, we were maybe waiting to see what the call was. That was the first moment I remember something with the business being like, whoa, this isn't. Yeah, I don't understand.

[Dawn Richard]

I do remember telling her, you know, whatever he does end up paying, you will probably have to recoup that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah.

[Dawn Richard]

You know, because, I mean, I had. I had knowledge of, like, you know, music business and deals and everything like that. Having just like. Because I had just, you know, walked across the stage, you know, saying, for nyu. So I had my. My music business, stuff like that, Right. I just remember saying, yo, girl, he. If he wants you in the group, he gonna pay it. He got that in a safe in the back of his office. Don't worry about it. So then. Then I was like, yo, if it's for you, it's for you. If it's not, whatever.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He had more money for the freak off. So clear. What's the first time you remember seeing or sense experiencing a thought where your gut went to the ground? Like, this is. Something's not right, that whatever yours may be Mine was within our group, but what was yours?

[Dawn Richard]

Well, honestly, and. And not to beat a dead horse, because I feel like this is the only narrative that is ever told about me was that first time we came together, we didn't even have a name of our group yet. We have been. We were chosen in November of.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Of 2020, November 15th. Remember, that's our LLC. You know that. You know that Don sued our LLC in her contract. In her lawsuit, I saw that. It's not even an active llc, by the way. But anyway, right.

[Dawn Richard]

It's also my sister's birthday, so shout out to my suspicion. So I. I remember we came. We came back together for the first time at Johnny Wright's compound to do a performance for NBA All Star Week. And we had no material. We had. No, no. We were trying to rehearse.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah, this is when he was shaming you. Body shaming you.

[Dawn Richard]

Yes. And it came. It came out of nowhere because literally right before they turned on. On the. The camera, the zoom or what was a Skype at the time, everybody was.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Like, damn, your body is banging. You had a 12 pack. We were just. You were like.

[Dawn Richard]

I was leading the workout. Warm up with everybody. I was like, okay, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do these ones.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You have a body that everybody in the industry bought in order to become famous. It's wild.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah. And a face, you know, And I. It was just. It was just out of left field. And I remember, like, I had to bite my tongue because I was like. Like I said I was ready with the comebacks, but I wouldn't. I was trying to be respectful, and it was just so out of left field. It was like, why would he say that to me? Why would he. Why would he go that far? Like, at first I was laughing it off, but he started going further and further and further. And at that. At that point, I could tell he was on something. You know, he was high on something.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He was getting off on it, and he kept going and going. I remember it was like he was getting off on continuing the jokes. He had done that to me when I got brown hair. Like, who the fuck is that? I don't even recognize who that.

[Dawn Richard]

I remember that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah, he made me go into Orbe's bowl and then Orbe fried all my hair off and then had to put a head full of extensions on me because they burnt all my hair off. That was a crazy. God bless Orbe.

[Dawn Richard]

I was never able to wear my hair natural. So my hair, where I created my asymmetric he hated.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He hated what black women wearing their natural hair. He always wanted your hair slick down the middle, parted and flat. Flat ironed. I remember he always hated that about. About the beauty standard that he expected of you. I remember that being a consistent thing.

[Dawn Richard]

Right. And then when I came in with my hair cut like that, he was just like. But it was too late.

[Aubrey O'Day]

We had to go on stage. Like, you're like, too bad.

[Dawn Richard]

It's show time.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay, so this is more of a.

[Dawn Richard]

Because just going back for a hot second. I do remember Leola, our director, coming to me and telling me that. How disgusting that really was. Somebody's outside eye being able to see that, see what he was doing and see what he was doing to a young, young woman, and how disgusting it was to the point where she told her cameras to stand down and shut it off. And I remember telling Shannon, once again, I don't know. Me and Shannon always had these side conversations because she was.

[Aubrey O'Day]

She's good at side. She's good at side conversations. She does them well.

[Dawn Richard]

She was like, oh, my God, I can't believe he did that. That was so. You know, that was so wrong for him. This, that and the other. And I remember telling him. I remember telling Shannon, said, don't worry about it. He's gonna have some daughters one day. And I had no idea.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. And now he has them in court listening to how daddy like to swing it, slap it and roll it all around. He has them in court, for optics sake. Listening, listening to Cassie's testimony in the beginning, they. They haven't been in court consistently a bit after that. But that's how much the consideration of the he'll have daughters one day line really got, as far as it got. But speaking of something you just said, Leola, because she also protected me from many things as well. Even at her wedding, years later, she had said, like, one of the top. I think it was the biggest time she ever had to kind of betray herself as a producer was a situation that happened with me and her having to bring me back into something. Because this leads into my next question. How do you feel about coercion, force, body shaming, humiliation tactics that they called reality TV being sold as a standard and mostly a lot of times as a comedy. It was funny when he made all the guys and girls walk to Brooklyn for cheesecake, but technically, having a bunch of black folks walk to Brooklyn. Bab said she got tendonitis or developed something in her leg, like a.

[Dawn Richard]

She had to go to the hospital.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And then the Next day, he was like, you went to the hospital? And she was like, yeah, thinking she was gonna get some like, like, good job or I'm. I'm so sorry, or damn. That was hectic. And he was like, cool, so you want to go home then? Like, it wasn't cool that she went. And I remember and I told Babs, damn. I mean, we had versions of that, but our versions were like, woke us up at 6am, had to sing Whitney Houston in front of 18 people with no warm up, then run to here. Then we had to remember we had to run Central park until somebody dropped, and then they would go home. One or two people. Then we had to go to that dance thing where he was just dropping people like flies. Like, all of these things that are not normal. Nobody in the industry that's a famous artist had to. Taylor Swift did not have to do any of that. And I don't know what everybody, you know, I'm not here to talk about everyone else's story, but there are a lot of things that we did that are not mandatory requirements. Yet I sometimes look at past Leola because Leola saved us. But when that moment happened with you, shame on him. I'm glad there was a producer there to help you with mentally in the mental health sense. But who over at the larger companies decided to air it.

[Dawn Richard]

Exactly.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And who decided to air it as an issue of yours?

[Dawn Richard]

Right. And I remember being talked to by some of the other producers. I won't name them. And I remember them telling me, well, you don't really have a struggle. And we want people to be able to relate to you. So we wanted to bring that up. And I was like, but it's not a struggle of mine. Don't create. Don't fabricate an issue. And I was like, there are real issues. There are real challenges that we are really having. You don't have to fabricate something and create a body issue. And I had to walk around the real world and people sat on it.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I feel like, why don't we just come on the cameras and talk about what dawn said about you? And she forgot to turn off her phone. That's a great episode of television. Instead of calling you overweight, I mean, you had to moss weights out of everybody there. And an eight pack or 12 pound, no, you got a lot of little squares on your stomach.

[Dawn Richard]

And he had me doing extracurricular workouts by myself. I remember him pulling me into the. This little office one time after he had me working out by myself. Extracurricular and he was like, oh, what are you doing running on the treadmill with weights in your arms? And I was just like, well, my body develops muscle. And anything that made too much sense, he wanted to cut you off. I don't want to hear it. You know what I'm saying? I was like, my body develops muscle quickly. Like, I remember meeting Serena Williams not too long after that. And I was just like, girl, me and you, we shape the same. We the same type. And she was like, yep, yep. These thighs, they. That's what happens.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. But what's crazy is that ended up being the beauty standard that every girl now is on tables trying to get at plastic surgery offices. Tiny waist, big booty thick legs. Like, your arms are tiny, your waist is tiny. Like, you have. You're beautiful. You literally naturally have the entire body standard that has now become the thing that everybody wants to purchase. And yet at that time, my. When I look back on all of it, like, sometimes I wish could. I wish they could just say sorry to us. Like, I know that they can't leave for legal reasons just because Don suing them. Sarah's suing them. You know, she sued everyone. She sued him, Viacom, and everybody else in her lawsuit. So did Sarah. But. So. So then it becomes a situation where you got to stay, Mom. But, like, I wish. I wish that it's very clear that we were in a very unhealthy situation. And a lot of people knew. Let's stop acting like nobody was on set and nobody knew. There were chairs being thrown. There were lawsuits occurring during the making of it. There was temper tantrums. There was choking. There was people coming in with fucked up faces hiding behind glass. There was a lot of things going on that everybody saw while cameras are there. Cameras down, like you said. One of our producers said cameras down was probably the most frequent thing I heard on that show. On the production side. Cameras down.

[Dawn Richard]

Mm.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Whenever a behavior was getting out of hand, it was the cameras down behavior.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So to me, it's like, at least if the editors are watching it in a bay, there's got to be some HR policy where you got to move it on up to the top and ask, hey, you know, this is part of HR on our side over here. When this big corporation. I don't think this is okay. Like, even, you know, knowing after seeing that lawsuit and knowing all the things like Q had told me, you know, allegedly, like, Don knew who was going home that day in the room when I was fired. And then you were fired after. Oh, yeah.

[Dawn Richard]

I Knew. She knew.

[Aubrey O'Day]

When you watch it back the. You know, but it was like the whole presentation, I. It was completely uneven. When we walked into that room, like, there is. Some people were styled with makeup and hair looks, and the rest of us just did it at home and showed up. But, like, when I go back and I watch those things and then I go back and I see, like, three part finales that Sway was hosting. Where did. He's in Miami. And a towel probably just got out of a freak oper. Maybe he's about to get into one. Maybe he was watching one at that point, for fuck's sake. And he's sitting there berating me, laughing. And I was just sitting. I think you decided not to come back. The other three were on the couch, and the only person. And I wasn't even close with her. Then Shannon reached out and grabbed my hand and held my hand because it was like I was just getting beaten up, like, psychotically beaten up. For what?

[Dawn Richard]

It was insane.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Question. Do you think Danity Kane was to blame for the demise of Danity Kane?

[Dawn Richard]

Absolutely not.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay, moving forward, do you think any one person caused the demise of Danity Kane?

[Dawn Richard]

Sean P. Diddy Combs.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Is there anyone in Danity Kane that caused the demise of Danity Kane or was aware of the demise of Danity Kane before Danity Kane was aware?

[Dawn Richard]

Yes, I do. I do believe that. I believe dawn knew, and I believe.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Thank you. Question. Do you think the verdict, whether he gets off or goes in, do either of those verdicts make a significant shift in the music industry?

[Dawn Richard]

I think it will make a shift. But how much of a shift or how much more careful? I don't know if it will change anything because so many people are in cahoots and so many people benefit off of the way things are. You know what I mean? And I think people will just get more careful. They won't change for the better. They'll just get more careful.

[Aubrey O'Day]

They'll watch their technology a bit better.

[Dawn Richard]

Right. And it might even mean that more victims are ostracized and blackballed as we were. You know what I mean? Instead of doing right by us, we just were iced. We were just thrown to go to the wayside.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Do you believe many people will be in danger if he gets off on most of this?

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah. Including us, too.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Correct.

[Dawn Richard]

Correct.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay. And then what does justice feel like for you? What do you want to see happen? What would. What would bring the final. A final piece. A piece. I don't like to see, say, the final, because I think it's going to be a process till the day we die to untangle what was put on us at such an impressionable time. I'm still untangling. I mean, I just learned that my band mate was involved in all kinds of really hectic things that scared the out of me. I don't know, even. I thought. I thought we. I thought we all went through it together. I didn't realize that we were. That there were actors or acting going on. I just. I really just thought it. You know, we know who this one was. We know the one which was temperamental. We know the one that was messy. We know that this one. Like, I didn't understand there was so much aspiration occurring around us. I saw it sometimes in the Girlfriends, but I didn't see it in our group. So it's like the amount of deception that I feel is like, who are these people? And when I talked to Drea, she was like, what the is all of this?

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah, like you said, we were in it. So, like, seeing the forest for the trees right now is a big thing. Like, wow. Like, hindsight being 2020 and it ain't even 2020 because we're learning new facts and then things that we physically, subconsciously, you know. No. And it's coming to the surface now. So, like, mental health is a big thing in my. My production. That's that I'm getting ready to present here in New York at the Public Theater.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And tell me about that real quick. Get your plug in, because I want everyone to go support you.

[Dawn Richard]

Yes. June 28th, this coming Saturday at 9:30pm or 6:30 West coast time. I have a global live stream if you're not in New York.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Dawn Richard]

I wanted to open up, open it up as much as I could.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Good.

[Dawn Richard]

So people could be in the room. The name of the. The name of the show is My Living Room Self. And that is from a director that I worked with named Tom Jones. And I worked with him on Candy Burris production Mother's Love.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You were great in that.

[Dawn Richard]

Thank you. And Tom Jones would come into rehearsal and say, I want your living room self. I want your extreme living room self. He was very animated, you know, but he wanted us to have the freedom. He wanted us to take off all the judgment, all of the perfectionism, all the things that we're afraid to do, afraid to be, you know, like, critiqued. And that's exactly what we went through, through making the band like.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay, so let me ask you, in this performance, are you. Are you wearing no makeup? Then, because there's no makeup in the living room, girl, I taking it.

[Dawn Richard]

I'm taking it off. Yes, you will see us stripping down. It is, you know, really getting lash.

[Aubrey O'Day]

If I come visit your living room, I'll take off the lashes, take off the lash.

[Dawn Richard]

Take off your bra. Take off.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't have a bra on. I never have a bra.

[Dawn Richard]

It's basically trying to reclaim that most authentic version of yourself after all the chips on your shoulder, after all of the, you know, toxic voices in your head, all the influence, all the. All the ways you've been pruned and picked at and positioned, and the way that we show up and the way that we're standing is so unnatural. It's like we're holding our breath. But when you come into the living room, you're able to let your guard down.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Breathe. Well, I do want to. You're just making me jump to one story. One of the last times we spoke, you were talking. I had gotten an affidavit that was. I can't talk about it, but I received an affidavit that was horrible. I sent it to you to ask you if you had remembered any of the details in any of it, recalled any of it, and you were in Africa at the time, and you had brought the dress or outfit that you had worn the day that you were fired.

[Dawn Richard]

Yep.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And I remember you were telling me you were, like, how heavy it was and, like, you were kind of burning it on. You burnt it and left it there, the ashes there. Right.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And that you are kind of gonna put whatever the spirit is of whatever that may be for me in it, too. Yeah. And my.

[Dawn Richard]

My. My spiritual advisor, my. As we call him, our Baba, you know, in Nigeria. Yeah. He. Because when you text me that, it was right after we had done all of these, you know, spiritual cleansing, you know, rituals and things.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I'm so sorry.

[Dawn Richard]

No, no, no, it's okay. It's okay, because everything happens for a reason, and everything happens in the right timing. And I remember him telling. Because I broke, and I was almost like, I don't want to go back.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Like, when you read it, you read it right then.

[Dawn Richard]

I read it right then, and I ran out of my room, and I ran right to him, and I was like, this is what's happening. And he was telling me, you know, even what we've done here is going to protect her. It's going to protect.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Both of you did tell me that. And by the way, like, I latch on to that protection because I feel now More than ever, especially after talking with Q, that there might be some type of, like, bad energy sources that are trying to invade our. Our bubbles and invade our spaces. And that you have to be careful of all kinds of things.

[Dawn Richard]

Trust each other and make us. You know, you go into a cell.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Two questions. Just. I want to get to these Quick trigger. Just quick ones, because they're giving me. Time's up. But I don't. I want to ask you all these because they're funny and we. I never have fun interviews. It's always so stressful with this topic. But to clarify for both you and I, why do you think I got fired?

[Dawn Richard]

It was sexual harassment. Retaliation. That's my story.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Why do you think you got fired?

[Dawn Richard]

Because I was close to you and it was retaliation.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay? So now here's the question. Games, okay? And you have to just quick trigger. No long definition. Just quick trigger. Bursting out your mind.

[Dawn Richard]

Most.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Most outrageous rule Diddy had for us.

[Dawn Richard]

Oh, my goodness. No sleep for 72 hours and longer.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Who cried the most during making the band?

[Dawn Richard]

Drea.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Who got. Who got the most side eyes from Diddy? You. No, you didn't get side eyes.

[Dawn Richard]

You got direct eyes.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Hella direct. Who knew how to play the game?

[Dawn Richard]

I say, dawn, how did it feel.

[Aubrey O'Day]

To hear you're fired?

[Dawn Richard]

It was like.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Let me actually say it in his words. You can go, too. Even worse.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah, you can get out.

[Aubrey O'Day]

No, he said, you can go, too. Yeah. Like an afterthought, almost.

[Dawn Richard]

It was like a gut punch. I felt the hairs on the back of my neck, like, just like tingles and spines, like. Yeah, okay.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Describe Diddy's energy in one word.

[Dawn Richard]

Toxic.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Craziest rumor you've heard about Diddy back then.

[Dawn Richard]

Back then.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It's just a rumor. It's alleged, so you could say anything. You heard that back then. It was crazy, okay, that he had.

[Dawn Richard]

You know, paid officers from NYPD running around, chasing JLO to find her around New York City. She was trying to get away from him.

[Aubrey O'Day]

One thing we weren't allowed to do. That now sounds insane.

[Dawn Richard]

She said one thing we were not allowed to do.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah, that sounds insane.

[Dawn Richard]

Shoot. One thing we were not allowed to do.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I could name something.

[Dawn Richard]

Go ahead, get. Name something. Get paid. Oh, yes, get paid.

[Aubrey O'Day]

How about.

[Dawn Richard]

How about wear my hair with grows out of my head?

[Aubrey O'Day]

There you go. There you go. Who do you think scared him more, Us or the truth?

[Dawn Richard]

The truth.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Your favorite member of dk, Aubrey o' Day. You're mine, too. Least favorite member of dk, which still means you like them but least say or maybe don't but least favorite.

[Dawn Richard]

Oh, man, it feels like a beat up session. No, it's not.

[Aubrey O'Day]

These are. These are just one offs. I'll say mine if you say yours. Okay, you say yours first, Dawn.

[Dawn Richard]

I agree.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Were all the Pussycat Dolls microphones on when we would tour with them?

[Dawn Richard]

I don't know. But I know Nicole Scherzinger's mic is on right now on Broadway and she is singing down.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Her mic was on. But on the days where we would feel bad because we were washing our costume crotches in the sink because we didn't have multiple costumes like they did. Yeah. And we all put our in ears together because we shared the same five networks. Do you remember how we couldn't hear anything coming out of a few of them?

[Dawn Richard]

I just remember. I remember Melanie Melon, Melody Thornton, Mike being on. My being on.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yes, exactly. And everybody else's. I didn't hear. And then. Did they have a vocal pitch rig?

[Dawn Richard]

They did. Did they have one?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Did they? I. We already know we didn't. Did they?

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay. Yes, did. Who is the last DK member you spoke to?

[Dawn Richard]

You.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Which DK performance lives rent free in your head?

[Dawn Richard]

Rent free for. For other reasons. But the one when I invited my boyfriend and I got him front row. Front row seat tickets.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Which one? The basketball player guy?

[Dawn Richard]

No, the one that I was.

[Aubrey O'Day]

The long term one. Yeah. Okay.

[Dawn Richard]

Okay. And he decided not to show up.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Oh, damn.

[Dawn Richard]

Those seats were empty in the front row as we were performing.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That lives rent free. Of all the iconic shit we did on stage that lives rent free. I'm so sorry, mama.

[Dawn Richard]

That hurt the most. Because I felt like he was my refuge. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's who I talk to the most. He's who you expected him to be There horrible things. And I just felt totally abandoned. And he just didn't show up. And it was jealousy on his part. Like he was also. He was comforting me, but he was jealous of me at the same time.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Which is the case with most women in this industry. Who missed the most rehearsals.

[Dawn Richard]

It's between you and Dawn.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I'm sorry. I was gonna say no one. We weren't allowed to miss rehearsals. I don't. I mean, I think I missed some performances cause of Broadway. Dawn took off to go do dirty money stuff while we were still doing Danity Kane. But rehearsals. We all had to be in rehearsals.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't know. I can't. It was just a great show.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay. Who kept the Group grounded when it got messy.

[Dawn Richard]

Shannon.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Biggest diva moment. You saw yours or someone else's in the group? Yeah.

[Dawn Richard]

Oh, the biggest diva moment was when I fought so hard to get my sister's song on the album.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And some.

[Dawn Richard]

People don Andrea up and, you know, threw a fit and left the studio and didn't want to record it and didn't come back for like four hours.

[Aubrey O'Day]

But guess what that meant.

[Dawn Richard]

You got all. You got all the time you need.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I was gonna say it's my favorite song. I got so many parts on that song, and I love that song. I still play it.

[Dawn Richard]

I said, go ahead, Aubrey, take your time.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And I did. That leads me to my next question. Top three Danity Kane songs. Your top three favorite off the dome. Top three favorite.

[Dawn Richard]

The ones that we wrote.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Top three, Key to my heart.

[Dawn Richard]

Striptease with Mary Brown. Because she allowed us to write on that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay, so striptease, Key to my heart. What's your third one?

[Dawn Richard]

Picture this. Because we wrote that poem together.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I love picture this. Okay. Would you ever go on tour with all five members of Vanity Kane again?

[Dawn Richard]

I don't think it would be good. I don't think that would be a good situation. I'm going to.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I'll go on tour with you too, obviously. But the five is the question.

[Dawn Richard]

No, I don't think that would be.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Good after the trial to know for me as well. But you, Drea. Shan, I'm fine. Who surprised you the most that's been speaking out about the Diddy trial or Diddy in general recently?

[Dawn Richard]

I'm actually surprised that Don spoke out.

[Aubrey O'Day]

If Diddy called today.

[Dawn Richard]

Are you answering now without a lawyer present in a bodyguard, who's more likely.

[Aubrey O'Day]

To survive a scandal, A boy band or a girl group? Let's say Danity Kane.

[E]

A boy band.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And why?

[E]

Because they're boys. They just forgive and overlook boys behavior.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So girls don't really run the world, do they?

[Dawn Richard]

No.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Beyonce tried it. She tried to give us some self esteem, but we don't really run the world. Let's be real.

[Dawn Richard]

Yeah.

[E]

We have a power, and that's why there's such a. A backlash against women. Because we are so powerful. So that is why there is so much effort to contain and, you know, oppress us. Because we are powerful.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah.

[E]

Try to silence something that you're not threatened by.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Correct. Okay. One word. Shannon. One word for Shannon.

[Dawn Richard]

Mother.

[Aubrey O'Day]

One word for Drea. If it's like a doubled word, it's gonna be a double word. But one thought for Drea.

[Dawn Richard]

Drea. Hair.

[Aubrey O'Day]

One thought for. For me.

[E]

Livewire.

[Aubrey O'Day]

One thought for Dawn.

[E]

Mask.

[Aubrey O'Day]

One thought for you, Abundance.

[Dawn Richard]

Yay.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay, and my last question. Finish the sentence. Danity Kane was never just about vanity.

[E]

Kane was never just about a TV show or music to listen to. For me, it was a really hard life lesson in many different things in who I am as an artist, who I am as a professional, who I am as a business person. And, yeah, it was a. It was a real growing up moment.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Let me ask you this. Did meeting Diddy change your life? Yeah. Do you think you would have a more enjoyable life if you had never met him?

[Dawn Richard]

Yes.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Do you think that there are things that you experienced under him that you will forever be healing from?

[E]

Yes.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Do you feel like during your time there, you felt versions of force, coercion, manipulation, extortion? I mean, it's kind of like all the albums we did and didn't get paid for, but yeah.

[E]

Financial abuse.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Financial abuse, body shaming, all of the things. Did you feel all that you experienced all of those things in your time there?

[Dawn Richard]

Yes.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Would you take Danity Kane back from the world if you had the opportunity, knowing what you know now, to not have gone and auditioned for it?

[E]

Oh, that's a really hard question.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Think about it, because I only want a yes or a no, to be honest. You don't have to live for anyone but you.

[E]

I would take it back from me, hands down. But for. For the people and for the people who I continue to meet and who have wonderful memories and experiences and who were inspired and who continue to be inspired even through all of this that's happening, they. They are inspired and see strength and see, you know, the bigger picture in ways that it affects their life. Like, it's great for them.

[Aubrey O'Day]

But does all of their joy combined make it worth your pain?

[E]

It has. It hasn't. It hasn't paid up yet.

[Aubrey O'Day]

D Woods, thank you so much. I love you, sis. Thank you.

[Dawn Richard]

Bye.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Bye, babe. This is an I Heart podcast.