Denied By SCOTUS, Ghislaine  Maxwell Has One Final Option, Will Trump Save Her?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “Denied By SCOTUS, Ghislaine Maxwell Has One Final Option, Will Trump Save Her?”

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Episode Date: October 6, 2025
Hosts: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

Episode Overview

This episode examines the latest (and possibly last) legal chapter in the Ghislaine Maxwell saga. With the Supreme Court’s refusal to hear Maxwell’s appeal, the conversation centers on her final, improbable chance at freedom: a pardon or clemency from President Donald Trump. Amy and T.J. parse the legal developments, the political implications for Trump, Maxwell’s current prison situation, possible motivations for a pardon, and the continued repercussions for all involved.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. SCOTUS Denies Maxwell’s Appeal (02:51–06:58)

• Summary:
  • The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review Ghislaine Maxwell’s appeal regarding her 2021 sex trafficking conviction.
  • Maxwell’s legal argument claimed she should be immune from prosecution because of an old non-prosecution agreement Jeffrey Epstein made with the U.S. government in Florida in 2007.
  • The Supreme Court rejected her appeal without comment, effectively ending her legal options.
• Quote:
  • "For all intents and purposes, that is it for Ghislaine Maxwell. But she has maybe one shot left at freedom." — T.J. Holmes (02:51)
  • "Her only shot is from President Trump, who has been desperately trying to distance himself from Ghislaine Maxwell, from Jeffrey Epstein for months now." — Amy Robach (03:19)

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2. The Origins and Limits of the Immunity Deal (05:21–06:58)

• Details:
  • The 2007 non-prosecution agreement in Florida was referenced by Maxwell as grounds for her immunity.
  • New York, where Maxwell was prosecuted, is not bound by that agreement.
  • Her argument was purely technical, not about her factual innocence.
• Quote:
  • "She's making an argument, a technical argument about this immunity deal... Now that's great, but it's. We ain't got to listen to that. We're not bound by that in New York and nowhere else in the world is bound by that." — T.J. Holmes (06:14)

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3. Speculation and Unusual Supreme Court Procedures (06:58–07:43)

• Insights:
  • The Supreme Court’s initial willingness to consider her appeal was surprising and sparked speculation, especially given the high-profile nature of the case and its political context.
  • The appeal was ultimately swatted down, out of typical session order.
• Quote:
  • “So them doing this out of session, so to speak, or when they traditionally do it was unusual, but now it’s been put to bed.” — Amy Robach (06:58)

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4. Maxwell’s Prison Transfer Raises Eyebrows (08:35–11:52)

• Key Points:
  • Maxwell was moved to a permissive, low-security federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas (“Club Fed”), atypical for someone convicted of violent sexual offenses.
  • Other inmates and observers questioned why and how this exception was made.
  • The move occurred soon after long interviews with Deputy Attorney General Blanche and sparked further speculation about potential backdoor deals.
• Quotes:
  • “It has raised a lot of eyebrows that she is at this point prison camp.” — Amy Robach (11:46)
  • “Nobody has explained why still... this was outside of normal procedure.” — T.J. Holmes (10:15)

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5. Maxwell’s Relationship to Trump and the Political Fallout of a Pardon (12:32–15:51)

• Discussion:
  • Trump is actively distancing himself from Maxwell and anything to do with Epstein, given the political risks.
  • Pardoning Maxwell would be perceived as “political suicide,” especially considering the public’s outrage and Trump’s tenuous relationship with his base on this topic.
  • Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, when asked about a possible pardon, replied vaguely: “It’s not something I’ve heard discussed... We don’t comment on clemency requests that may or may not have been made.”
• Quotes:
  • "Even despite all of his efforts to try and change the conversation or change the news headlines, it kept coming back to this." — Amy Robach (09:28)
  • “They have never flat out said, no, President Trump is not going to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell.” — Amy Robach (14:18)
  • “She’s doing that plausible deniability thing. They left her out of it on purpose, maybe.” — T.J. Holmes (15:22)

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6. What’s Next? Final Comments from Maxwell’s Attorney (23:10–23:53)

• Details:
  • Maxwell’s lawyer issued a statement after the Supreme Court decision, insisting they “will continue to pursue every avenue available to ensure that justice is done,” but specifics are unclear.
• Quote:
  • "Not exactly sure what that means. Not exactly sure what those options could be, but they say they're not just going to sit around and wait for this sentence to be over." — T.J. Holmes (23:53)

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7. Public Perception, Victims, and The Narrative’s End? (24:19–27:18)

• Insights:
  • There is deep mistrust about Maxwell, both among her victims and the public; all her claims are greeted with skepticism.
  • The hosts muse whether justice or closure is even possible—if any outcome will ever fully satisfy the public or the victims.
  • Congress possibly securing further testimony from Maxwell is discussed, though seen as unlikely.
• Quotes:
  • “Do you ever close this? Is it ever done? Is there ever enough information out there that satisfies the American public?... This just keeps dragging.” — T.J. Holmes (26:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Her only shot is from President Trump, who has been desperately trying to distance himself...” — Amy Robach (03:19)
• “She was adamant. Never saw Trump do anything wrong, never saw him do anything inappropriate.” — T.J. Holmes (08:49)
• “He has permanently affixed his sales as far away from anything to do with Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell.” — Amy Robach (09:28)
• “They have never flat out said, no, President Trump is not going to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell...” — Amy Robach (14:18)
• “Members of Congress... if they want to bring her to Capitol Hill, have her testify, what kind of deal can be struck? I actually don’t know, but that’s an option.” — T.J. Holmes (24:19)
• “Maybe this is one of the final, if not the final chapters in the game, Ghislaine Maxwell saga.” — Amy Robach (27:18)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:51 — T.J. Holmes sets up the SCOTUS decision
• 03:19 — Amy Robach introduces discussion on Trump as Maxwell’s last option
• 05:21–06:58 — Deep dive into the immunity deal and legal technicalities
• 08:35–11:52 — The prison transfer and "Club Fed" controversy
• 12:32–15:51 — Trump’s political calculus and the White House’s vague responses
• 23:10–23:53 — Maxwell’s attorney’s post-SCOTUS statement
• 24:19–27:18 — The possibility of closure or further testimony

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Tone and Style

The conversation is sharp, skeptical, and fast-paced, with both hosts openly speculating and drawing on their experience covering high-profile cases. Both Amy and T.J. maintain a critical—but not conspiratorial—tone, repeatedly noting the implications for political reputations, public outrage, and the seemingly endless nature of the Epstein-Maxwell scandal. They are aware of the gravity and sensitivity of the topic, especially as it pertains to victims.

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Summary Takeaway

With all traditional legal avenues now closed, the episode leaves listeners with the understanding that only an unlikely Trump pardon or a more creative legal gambit could free Ghislaine Maxwell. The hosts agree such a move is politically implausible and would come at enormous cost. Meanwhile, Maxwell’s relocation to a cushy prison remains unexplained, fueling yet more speculation about her connections and remaining leverage. The episode underscores that, while Maxwell’s fate may be sealed, the public’s fascination—and suspicion—remains, and true “closure” for victims and the public is still elusive.

Transcript

[Amy Robach]

This is an I heart podcast.

[T.J. Holmes]

I love that you created this system that revolves around you, creating pockets of peace. World Mental health day is around the corner. And on my podcast, just heal with Dr. J, I dive into what it really means to care for your mind, body and spirit. From breaking generational patterns to building emotional.

[Amy Robach]

Capacity, I'm going to walk away feeling like, yes, I'm going to continue my healing journey.

[T.J. Holmes]

Listen to just heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

I'm the homegirl that knows a little bit about everything and everybody. Lauren LaRosa. You hear that?

[T.J. Holmes]

Exclusive.

[Amy Robach]

Lauren came in hot. I came in telling the truth. Every day. I'm bringing you the latest in entertainment, breaking down the headlines you can't stop talking about, and giving you my very unfiltered take on the biggest stories in the industry.

[T.J. Holmes]

From exclusive news.

[Amy Robach]

And y' all know I got it. To us breaking down the interviews. Cause y' all are my co hosts now. I'm giving you deep dives on some of the biggest moments in pop culture.

[T.J. Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Amy Robach]

Listen to the Latest with Lauren LaRosa, weekdays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders? In this episode, I offer tips from them. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk. When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze. We ended up talking for hours, and I was like, this girl is my best friend. Let's talk about SN safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones. Listen to intentionally disturbing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[T.J. Holmes]

Talking about guns with others might not always feel comfortable, but it could save a life. Here's a way to start a conversation. Your family is going over to your neighbor's home for dinner for the first time. How would you ask if there are any unlocked guns in the home?

[Amy Robach]

Hey.

[T.J. Holmes]

Hey. We're so excited for tonight. Before we come over, though, may I.

[Amy Robach]

Ask if there are any unlocked guns in your home? Our guns are stored securely locked in a safe that the kids can't access. Awesome.

[T.J. Holmes]

Learn how to have the [e-mail], brought to you by the Ad Council. Teamsters President Jimmy Hoffa once promised to break both of Bobby Kennedy's arms.

[Amy Robach]

Bobby JFK's attorney general wanted to take down the mob, starting with Hoffa. Like, no one gives a about Bobby, right? So this is Bobby trying to get the world to care about him, which.

[T.J. Holmes]

I think explains all this passion and.

[Amy Robach]

Anger going into this, even though it's, it's all kind of ineptly handled.

[T.J. Holmes]

On United States of Kennedy, we dive into the hidden stories fueling our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty.

[Amy Robach]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[T.J. Holmes]

Hey there, folks. It is Monday, October 6th, and for all intents and purposes, that is it for Ghislaine Maxwell. But she has maybe one shot left at freedom. Will Trump give it to her? Welcome to this episode of Amy and tj. Look, no legal expert, a lot of stuff can happen. But now, after Supreme Court says, nope, we're not going to listen to your case either. Ghislaine Maxwell, she essentially has one shot left.

[Amy Robach]

Her only shot is from President Trump, who has been desperately trying to distance himself from Ghislaine Maxwell, from Jeffrey Epstein for months now. So the idea that he would then give her some sort of a, a pardon or clemency or some sort of get out of jail free card, what that would do to not just him, but any MAGA politician who aligned himself or herself with Trump following up the decision, I mean, it would be political suicide is what I'm trying to get at. And I know he technically doesn't have an opportunity to run for reelection. He certainly doesn't want his base turning on him the way they have, or they did, at least initially with the Epstein file. Should they. Won't they, Will they be released?

[T.J. Holmes]

So, saga, but don't you think. Nothing, it seems. Okay. This is us from the outside just speaking on what we see. And what we see upsets him. It seems like nothing irks him more than constantly being affiliated with Jeffrey Epstein.

[Amy Robach]

That's right. And I think, yes, that might come from a personal place, but also he's very well aware that this is a serious issue with the people who are closest to him, the people who follow him, who vote for him, who are at his rallies. These are the very group of people who, who want total transparency. They want justice, and they certainly don't want President Trump doing anything to help Ghislaine Maxwell at this point.

[T.J. Holmes]

All right, so. And the Supreme Court doesn't want to help her either, because that's the news today, folks. Ghislaine Maxwell, who, of course, the convicted sex offender. She has been convicted of several crimes associated with Jeffrey Epstein Also the convicted sex offender, now dead. But Ghislaine Maxwell was trying, has been trying for years to get her convictions thrown out. Her argument being that she was a part of an immunity agreement that Jeffrey Epstein had. Well, she appealed that appellate court listened and said, nope, let the conviction stand. She then appealed that appellate decision up to the Supreme Court and today, Robes, they said the same thing.

[Amy Robach]

They did. And she was hoping that because Jeffrey Epstein got this sweetheart dealer, at least that's how it's been referred to in 2007.

[T.J. Holmes]

Exactly.

[Amy Robach]

Of course that's what it is, but it is, you know, basically saying any one of his cohorts or anyone who helped him also would be immune from any sort of future convictions. However, that was in the state of Florida. There was nothing that precluded the state of New York from pursuing the charges that it did. And of course, yes, to remind everyone, she is serving 20 years for conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to sexually abuse minors. It is a serious crime, it is a violent crime and it is one that she was found guilty of by a jury of her peers.

[T.J. Holmes]

And again, this one is, and you correct me if this sounds wrong, Rose, but she, the argument she's been making in court is not one about her innocence.

[Amy Robach]

No, it's not.

[T.J. Holmes]

She's making an argument, a technical argument about this immunity deal. The language is down there, I put it in there somewhere. The language of the immunity deal. Yes. The United States will also agree that it will not institute any criminal charges against any potential co conspirators of Epstein. That was in his non prosecution agreement. Like you said, Robes in Florida. Now that's great, but it's. We ain't got to listen to that. We're not bound by that in New York and nowhere else in the world is bound by that. And that's the argument she's been trying to make. Appella Judge just said no, the SCOTUS Supreme Court said we only want to hear it. They, they, they did not have to rule on anything. They just said, nah, this is not one we're going to take up.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, I mean the fact that they even considered her appeal because this wasn't typically when they would do something like this was newsworthy in and of itself. But certainly this was done before they typically start their new court term where they discuss which court cases to take on. So them doing this out of session, so to speak, or what when they traditionally do it was unusual, but now it's been put to bed. She has no other option, she has no other road to go down to try and upend the conviction she was handed in 2021.

[T.J. Holmes]

You're right. That made, that made headlines at the time because something must be cooking here if they're taking this up. And it was out of the ordinary. It was, it was a big headline. So we thought something might be coming. They said, nah, we'll pass.

[Amy Robach]

Certainly, we saw several things happen when we saw Deputy Attorney General Blanche meet with her, have those hours long conversations with her to which we listened to hours of that conversation, or at least certainly the transcripts. We read them and, you know, you said she wasn't denying it, or at least that wasn't the basis for this appeal to the Supreme Court. But she does vehemently deny all of her convictions. She says she, it was mischaracterized and she didn't know what was going on, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. But the concern was that because she was talking with the Trump administration, because she then seemingly got some favors handed down to her, which we can get into, there was concern that perhaps there was some sort of backhanded thing going on where the Supreme Court might suddenly take up her argument that she shouldn't have been convicted in the first place.

[T.J. Holmes]

That's for the conspiracy theorists out there. However, there were some facts that were lining up to make a lot of people go, wait a second, what is going on? What did you call the prison she's at now? It's called some camp something.

[Amy Robach]

Oh, gosh, Club Fed.

[T.J. Holmes]

Club Fed, Club Fed, Club Fed. So already folks were. Think about the interview she did with AG Blanche. We got those transcripts. We heard the audio tapes and whatnot. So it's out there. But one of the biggest headlines of the thing that came across is she was adamant. Never saw Trump do anything wrong, never saw him do anything inappropriate. Like she repeated it and she was gushing in her praise of him. I understand she's trying to get a pardon, but that coupled with the President now, if she had a chance of getting a pardon, I don't think, given where he is and where I don't, I don't think, I think her chances went way, way, way down.

[Amy Robach]

Oh, given the court of public opinion, I mean, certainly most politicians will read the tea leaves. They will check where the wind's coming from and they will adjust their sales accordingly. He has permanently affixed his sales as far away from anything to do with Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell. And even despite all of his efforts to try and change the conversation or change the news headlines, it kept coming back to this. So I just can't imagine there would be a scenario in which he would want to in any way be a part of Ghislaine Maxwell getting any sort of deal. However, I was shocked. We were all shocked. In the middle of all of the criticism, we did see her move to.

[T.J. Holmes]

A much different facility and nobody could explain why.

[Amy Robach]

Nobody has explained why still.

[T.J. Holmes]

And this has been months. Nobody knows why this was outside of normal procedure. Why is she there? Nobody Understand. And again, this is a place for nonviolent folks. She is a violent sex offender. That is how she's classified. And that type of prisoner, whatever that classification is, is not one that would be just walking around roaming freely for the most part at this Club Fed. I can't remember what town it's in down there, but it's a.

[Amy Robach]

It's in Texas.

[T.J. Holmes]

It's kind of not a. Certainly not maximum security, but they kind of roam free to a certain degree.

[Amy Robach]

Well, it is the. It is the animal.

[T.J. Holmes]

Sorry, I apologize. That's not what I meant. But it's one of these kind of open, kind of. Not just fenced in, if you want to.

[Amy Robach]

100% that is the case. And so this is. It's called a federal prison camp and it's in Bryan, Texas. And so, yes, there is much laxer security. I believe they said this is the lowest security of all of the federal prison systems and this is for nonviolent offenders. So the fact that she's in there with her violent convictions is something that. A lot of this is all reportedly coming from other fellow prisoners. They were not happy about being housed now with somebody who is in a very different category than they are. So that didn't seem fair to any of the other folks who were there. Elizabeth. Elizabeth Holmes is there. How did I forget her last name? That's funny. But that's the type of criminal that's. It's a high profile crime, certainly. But this was one. This was a white collar crime, as they say it. So that's typically what you see in this prison. So it is highly unusual and it has raised a lot of eyebrows that she is at this point, prison camp.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay, do I have it right? Wasn't it the exact same weekend, the very weekend after the interviews with AG Blanche?

[Amy Robach]

It would be hard to give a reason. And that's probably why they didn't give a reason as to why or even speaking to the timing of this move was made. And they just. I think they did say there were sources who came out and said hey, this was a matter of security. She has threats against her life. This was what was best for everyone. And the Bureau of Prisons made the decision to move this prisoner where they deemed it to be safest and best. And. And that was kind of the end of it. But of course, we have lots of journalists asking questions about the next steps for Ghislaine and what may happen.

[T.J. Holmes]

I forgot, we never got the answer to that. I'll speculate for a second. Say he pardons her. What's that backlash going to be? What's. How explosive of a revolt would it be?

[Amy Robach]

Look, I think right now he's still dealing with statues being put up on the National Mall with him holding hands and frolicking with Jeffrey Epstein. People constantly. I love that verb when it comes to the statue, because that is exactly what it depicts. Frolicking. When he went to the uk, he has, you know, pictures of him and Jeffrey Epstein and even Melania up there with Epstein reading them, actually cast onto a huge castle for all to see. Windsor Castle. I mean, everywhere he goes in the world, he is being hounded and. And shadowed by these images of him. Whether people have to put up a screen show on a castle or a big ten foot statue on the National Mall, this is something he cannot shake. So I can't imagine he would want to invite more criticism and almost confirm the suspicions that are out there.

[T.J. Holmes]

And I think, look, I was thrown off a little bit, but I couldn't believe the backlash. We talk about his base and he, I think he said, Right. What was the line? He said, I could shoot somebody in the middle of the highway and Fifth Avenue. I believe he said, and my folks would still vote for me, whatever it was. But this is one of those things we always think he could. He's just, no matter what he does, they're gonna stick with their guy. I was surprised at how many people, just by them saying, we're not gonna release any more files, there is no list. And, oh, by the way, confirmed he killed himself. Just stating those three things was enough that folks lost it to then pardon this lady.

[Amy Robach]

That would just be. I can't imagine anyone could. I know he thinks, and he has certainly been able to keep a loyal following despite a lot of stuff that's come out. This might be the nail in his coffin if he went this way. Now, here's the interesting thing. You have these reporters asking questions of the White House. They have never flat out said, no, President Trump is not going to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell. They have never even indicated that and in fact, when asked again today, there was a vague response.

[T.J. Holmes]

Well, how vague?

[Amy Robach]

It was pretty vague. This is what. And this is similar to what we've heard before when White House Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt told reporters today, October 6, that she was unaware if Trump had been asked to pardon Maxwell saying it's not something I've heard discussed.

[T.J. Holmes]

So they're saying it hasn't even come up.

[Amy Robach]

So it's not. No, she's saying she hasn't heard of it being discussed. Doesn't mean it didn't happen or it hasn't been discussed or isn't being discussed.

[T.J. Holmes]

She's doing that plausible deniability thing. They left her out of it on purpose, maybe suggesting vague. I mean, what is. I, I cannot remember the answers they've.

[Amy Robach]

Given something similar to that. Trump has said, no one's asked me. I haven't heard anything. So that's kind of. And so I think that is interesting because of course it doesn't shut the door completely on it. And then Carolyn Levitt did follow up with this. We don't comment on clemency requests that may or may not have been made.

[T.J. Holmes]

But when they were asked about Diddy, he started talking and said, you know what? They haven't asked me yet. It might be I liked him. He was a da, da, da. So we shall see now, as we're discussing this here, what it seems to everybody. Yes, the Supreme Court told her no, she is out at least of legal options when it comes to this appeal. However, we will tell you after this what her attorney says they want to do now moving forward, they at least think they've got some maybe vague options, too. December 29, 1975, LaGuardia Airport.

[Amy Robach]

The holiday rush. Parents hauling luggage, kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then at 6:33pm everything changed. There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal.

[T.J. Holmes]

Apparently the the explosion actually impelled metal glass.

[Amy Robach]

The injured were being loaded into ambulances. Just a chaotic, chaotic scene. In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged. And it was here to stay. Terrorism, law and criminal justice system is back in season two. We're turning our focus to a threat that hides in plain sight that's harder to predict and even harder to stop. Listen to the new season of law and criminal justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[T.J. Holmes]

But the humility in knowing that life is this classroom that we should never graduate from is what is going to keep you growing. And that's all that matters. World Mental health day is around the corner. And on my podcast, just heal with Dr. J, I dive into what it really means to care for your mind, body, and spirit. From breaking generational patterns to building emotional capacity, healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination.

[Amy Robach]

I'm gonna walk away feeling very healed and feeling like, yes, I'm gonna continue my healing journey and I'm gonna get some keys to from you.

[T.J. Holmes]

Listen to just heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

Hey, guys, it's Stephanie Beatriz and Melissa Fumaro, and this is more Better. We are jumping right in and ready to hear from you, your thoughts, your questions, your feelings about socks with sandals. And we're ready to share some possibly questionable advice. And hot takes. God sucks so hard, though. I'm so sorry. Can you out petty them? Can you match their pettiness for funsies? Yeah, we had so much fun last season. Laughing, crying, talking to some new and old friends. Remember when we were in that scene where you guys were just supposed to hug and I was standing, oh, yeah. And I was like, can I also hug them? I'm like, this has no friends. This time around. We are. Say it, Melissa. Should I Getting a little more better. Oh, finally. It's all the dressing room talk you loved in season one. All the things. Because aren't we all trying to get a little more better? Listen to more better on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just think the process and the journey is so delicious. That's where all the good stuff is. You just can't live and die by the end result. It's scary putting yourself out there, especially when it's something you really care about and something that you hope is your passion in life and you want people to like it. Let's get delicious and put ourselves out there. I'm Simone Boyce, host of the Bright side, and those were my recent guests, comedian Phoebe Robinson and writer Aaron Foster. On this show, I'm talking to the brightest minds in entertainment, health, wellness, and pop culture. And every week, we're going places in our communities, our careers, and ourselves. It's not about being perfect. It's about going on a journey and discovering the bright side of becoming. Few people know that better than soccer legend Ashlyn Harris. It's the journey, it's the people, it's the failures, it's the heartache, it's the little moments. These are our moments. To laugh, learn, and exhale. So join me every Monday and let's find the bright side together. Listen to the bright side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Internet is something we make, not just something that happens to us. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the Tech and Culture podcast. There Are no Girls on the Internet. There are no girls on the Internet is not just about tech. It's about culture and policy and art and expression and how we as humans exist and fit with one another. In our new season, I'm talking to people like Anil Dash, an OG entrepreneur and writer who refuses to be cynical about the Internet. I love tech. You know, I've been a nerd my whole life, but it does have to.

[T.J. Holmes]

Be for something like it's not just.

[Amy Robach]

For its own sake. It's a fascinating exploration about the power of the Internet for both good and bad. They use WhatsApp to get the price of rice at the market that is often 12 hours away.

[T.J. Holmes]

They're not going to be like, we.

[Amy Robach]

Don'T like the terms of service, therefore.

[T.J. Holmes]

We'Re not trading rice this season.

[Amy Robach]

It's an inspiring story that focuses on people as the core building blocks of the Internet. Platforms exist because of the regular people on them. And I think that's a real important story to keep repeating. I created There Are no Girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. New episodes every Tuesday and Friday. Listen to There are no Girls on the Internet, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome. Okay, I did it again. I had done so well. I didn't say welcome back for at least three weeks, but there I go again.

[T.J. Holmes]

Should have kept up with these.

[Amy Robach]

Welcome back to. I hope you're not taken aback, but welcome back to Amy and dj. We are talking about the Supreme Court's fairly interesting and big decision today to not consider Ghislaine Maxwell's appeal to her 2021 conviction. She felt like the immunity deal that Jeffrey Epstein struck back in 2007 should basically nullify the conviction she had by the state of New York. But hey, that was the state of Florida where that deal was struck, not the state of New York. Supreme Court didn't rule on its validity or not. They just said, we're not even going to consider it at this point.

[T.J. Holmes]

Rejection. I mean, that's got to say something about the case.

[Amy Robach]

We don't even want to hear what you have to say. That's the ultimate. Yeah, no, thanks. We're just not interested.

[T.J. Holmes]

You made it seem so personal with that because we all been victim of that in some way, form or fashion. Maybe it was our mother, maybe it was somebody you were dating. Don't even want to hear it.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. Oh, oh, yeah, I did hear that from my mom quite a bit. So, yes, that, that makes a lot of sense. Now everyone is pointing to her only option being a Trump pardon. And we've just gone over why that seems extremely highly, like, beyond any realm of possibility that Trump would ever consider that if he understands what the political temperature is about this and this subject, he wants to get a far away from this as possible.

[T.J. Holmes]

But they think they have some options. Now, we don't know what they could be. These would have to be Hail Marys of some kind. But whatever option she has now, it would be almost flukish, if you, if you will. It would have to be some deal somewhere that she struck. Now, her attorney made an interesting comment after this, talking about the disappointment, but said, quote, the fight isn't over. Serious legal and factual issues remain and we will continue to pursue every, every avenue available to ensure that justice is done. Not exactly sure what that means. Not exactly sure what those options could be, but they say they're not just going to sit around and wait for this sentence to be over. She's still trying to get out of prison.

[Amy Robach]

The problem is she's perjured herself before. And so anything that she says, it's, it's just incredibly difficult to believe at this point. And do most of us believe she knows? And do the victims say she knows? They absolutely concur that she does, but all of them have, I mean, those who are speaking out have all said everything that comes out of her mouth is, yeah, a lie.

[T.J. Holmes]

And I mean, now she has an incentive to say exactly what she needs to say that benefits her. That's one thing people are pointing to, that. Look, members of Congress, they, they have to answer to their constituents, they have to get themselves on news, they have to look like they're tough on crime if they want to bring her to Capitol Hill, have her testify. What kind of deal can be struck? I actually don't know, but that's an option. At least that was on the table. The possibility they were so desperate to get information from this lady that they were willing to cut a deal.

[Amy Robach]

The, the only, there's. I was just going over in my head what would be any sort of motivation for President Trump to pardon her or give her a get out of jail free card. Even at the end of his presidency, as so many presidents do, they'll just drop huge, huge pardon bombs on their way out. But what would be his incentive other than the fact that she had something on him that she could have given up, that she could have said, that she could have thrown at him and.

[T.J. Holmes]

So be the do good.

[Amy Robach]

So yes, but then if he did do that, then everyone would put those two things together and his legacy, which you know, he cares significantly about, would be blown up. So it just. Unless there is actually something real that she could be holding over his head there, I cannot think of any reason why he would pardon her or give her any sort of clemency.

[T.J. Holmes]

She would have played that card by now, wouldn't she? You would think she had something on him that if he was afraid of her.

[Amy Robach]

Exactly.

[T.J. Holmes]

You should have played that card a while ago.

[Amy Robach]

And for all the folks, you know, a lot of people, it's interesting, have all talked about what she knows and certainly she knows more than anyone alive could possibly know.

[T.J. Holmes]

True.

[Amy Robach]

But you know, she and her lawyers say she's had threats in her life. Her lawyers say she's scared for her safety. So it is interesting that she was moved to a lower security prison. There are so many questions I have about someone who they claim is at risk based on the information she may or may not have or based on the fact that people in prison don't like people who mess around with young children. But there are still, I guess, a few avenues. I don't. The lawyers didn't get specific, but we will be looking for any sort of new headline as to whether or not this she has a case going forward. If she is planning on still giving any sort of information to Congress. And certainly I think a lot of folks from the top on down would like this to be a chapter that.

[T.J. Holmes]

Goes away at this point. I would too. I mean at some point. Do you ever close this is ever done? Is there ever enough information out there that satisfies the American public? Is there ever enough punishment that's done? Is there ever anything that's going to make those victims feel better? I do not know. But this just keeps dragging. And that what they say every time. It's like you're not even opening up a new. The same wound like new wounds, they keep re victimized. That's what they keep saying. Victimized all over again by this stuff. My goodness.

[Amy Robach]

Well, maybe this is one of the final, if not the final chapters in the game Ghislaine Maxwell saga. We shall see. But thank you for Listening to us, everyone. I'm Amy Robach alongside T.J. holmes. We will talk to you soon.

[T.J. Holmes]

I love that you created this system that revolves around you, creating pockets of peace. World Mental health day is around the corner. And on my podcast, just heal with Dr. J, I dive into what it really means to care for your mind, body, and spirit. From breaking generational patterns to building emotional.

[Amy Robach]

Capacity, I'm gonna walk away feeling like, yes, I'm gonna continue my healing journey.

[T.J. Holmes]

Listen to just heal with Dr. J J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

I'm the homegirl that knows a little bit about everything, and everybody let me know.

[T.J. Holmes]

Lauren LaRosa, you hear that?

[Amy Robach]

Exclusive Lauren came in hot. I came in telling the truth. Every day I'm bringing you the latest in entertainment, breaking down the headlines you can't stop talking about. And giving you my very unfiltered take on the biggest stories in the industry.

[T.J. Holmes]

From exclusive news.

[Amy Robach]

And y' all know I got it to us breaking down the interview. Cause y' all are my co hosts.

[T.J. Holmes]

Now.

[Amy Robach]

I'm giving you the deep dives on some of the biggest moments in pop culture.

[T.J. Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Amy Robach]

Listen to the Latest with Lauren LaRosa weekdays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders? In this episode, I offer tips from them. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk. When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze. We ended up talking for hours, and I was like this as my best friend. Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones. Listen to intentionally disturbing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[T.J. Holmes]

Teamsters president Jimmy Hoffa once promised to break both of Bobby Kennedy's arms.

[Amy Robach]

Bobby JFK's attorney general wanted to take down the mob, starting with Hoffa. Like, no one gives a about Bobby, right? So this is Bobby trying to get the world to care about him, which I think explains all this passion and.

[T.J. Holmes]

Anger going into this.

[Amy Robach]

Even though it's all kind of ineptly handled.

[T.J. Holmes]

On United States of Kennedy, we dive into the hidden stories, fueling our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty.

[Amy Robach]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[T.J. Holmes]

In sitcoms, when someone has a problem, they just blurt it out and move on.

[Amy Robach]

Well, I lost my job and my parakeet is missing. How was your day?

[T.J. Holmes]

But the real world is different. Managing life's challenges can be overwhelming. So what do we do? We get support. The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have mental health resources available for you at loveyourmindtoday.org that's loveyourmindtoday.org. see how much further you can go when you take care of your mental health.

[Amy Robach]

This is an I Heart podcast.