Epstein File UPDATE: Don't Believe Everything (or Anything) You Read, Says DOJ

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Episode: Epstein File UPDATE: Don't Believe Everything (or Anything) You Read, Says DOJ
Date: December 24, 2025
Podcast Host: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

Amy Robach and TJ Holmes dedicate this special Christmas Eve episode to unraveling the latest controversy surrounding the newly released "Epstein Files" and to clarify reporting based on information from the Department of Justice (DOJ). The episode focuses on a bombshell letter, purportedly from Jeffrey Epstein to Larry Nassar, which was later discredited by the DOJ as fake. The hosts express deep skepticism about the DOJ's process and transparency, explore the implications of the release, and discuss the broader erosion of public and journalistic trust in government institutions handling the case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Epstein File Release & The “Fake” Letter (02:42 – 08:06)

• Podcast kick-off & breaking update:
  Amy announces the main theme: "You have a better chance of seeing Santa Claus tonight than ever seeing all the Epstein files" (02:42), highlighting ongoing frustrations with transparency.

• Background:
  The DOJ released a batch of Epstein-related documents—including one particularly explosive item: a supposed letter from Epstein to Larry Nassar, referencing President Trump's alleged interest in "young nubile girls."

• Letter contents read aloud:
  TJ reads the text of the contentious letter, in which Epstein allegedly writes,
  “I have taken the short route home... We shared one day our love and caring for young ladies... Our president also shares our love of young nubile girls. When a young beauty walked by, he loved to grab snatch, whereas we ended up snatching grub in the mess halls... Yours, Jay Epstein.” (06:44-07:15)
  — Amy reacts: "Okay, that's explosive if true." (07:15)

• Initial reaction:
  TJ and Amy both note the letter’s style aligns with Epstein's previous correspondence, which led many journalists and outlets to initially believe it could be genuine (07:27-08:06).

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2. The DOJ & FBI Response: Casting Doubt on Evidence (08:06 – 13:31)

• DOJ Twitter statements:
  Amy details the DOJ’s first public response, questioning the letter’s authenticity due to inconsistencies:

  • Wrong postmark (Virginia, not New York)
  • Incorrect return address and missing inmate number
  • Envelope postmarked three days after Epstein's death (08:06-09:31)

• Skepticism about file management:
  Both hosts express confusion about how a letter already flagged as fake could make it into an official file release. Amy: "Oversight, maybe." (09:33)
  TJ: "What a huge oversight." (09:35)

• Deeper trust issues:
  TJ laments, "The level of trust... with the information coming out of the administration, it's tough to know... I'm so confused as to what I should believe and what I should not. It numbs you..." (09:35-10:12)

• FBI follow-up; definitive statement:
  The FBI confirms the letter is fake, citing handwriting mismatches and procedural discrepancies. Yet, the hosts question why a known fake would be included in "transparent" file dumps:
  "Are they required to release documents that have been deemed fake? That doesn't seem possible." (11:20 Amy)

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3. Transparency Act, Redacted Names, and No Resolution (13:31 – 15:19)

• Redaction frustrations:
  Amy highlights the heavily redacted portions of the file, lamenting that the long-sought "transparency" only led to more confusion:
  "We finally get transparency. And the DOJ is telling us, don't believe anything in these files... There is not a fact in this case. This makes the case worse, in my opinion." (13:58-14:49)

• TJ’s existential frustration:
  "If you're supposed to look through that lens, that all or some of this could just be fake, well, then I can't believe—then why release anything? Because anything you release, you'll just say is fake." (14:49)

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4. What Comes Next? Legal & Political Fallout (15:19 – 22:34)

• Possibility of future transparency:
  Amy asks if this is merely a step toward genuine transparency: "Is that fair, to hold onto that hope?" (15:19)
  TJ dryly responds, "I've lost hope about that...not in the Department of Justice." (15:36)

• Congressional anger and legal maneuvers:
  The hosts discuss continued bipartisan outrage on Capitol Hill.

  • Calls for "inherent contempt," i.e., for the House Sergeant at Arms to arrest AG Pam Bondi until files are properly released:
    "It would call for... the Sergeant at Arms to arrest Attorney General Pam Bondi and put her behind bars until all of the files are released. And it was noted that this inherent contempt has never been used in modern times." (20:12 – TJ)
  • Chuck Schumer’s push for new, enforceable legislative action:
    "He wants to pass another law to enforce another law..." (21:29 – TJ)

• General disillusionment:
  "This is all buffoonery. It's a circus. It's silly. And this is why people get frustrated with our government. This is why people don't vote, because they think what does it matter anyway?" (21:29 – TJ)
  Amy’s summary—"It erodes trust that was only hanging on by a thread anyway" (22:34)—is pegged as the possible "quote of the day."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Amy Robach, setting the skeptical tone:

  "You have a better chance of seeing Santa Claus tonight than ever seeing all the Epstein files." (02:42)

• TJ Holmes, on the DOJ’s denials:

  "If there is ever anything negative...they'll just say it's fake. That has been the response to everything...now what's the point of releasing any file if any file that's damaging...is just...deemed fake?" (03:14)

• On the fake letter, Amy Robach:

  "That's explosive, if true. And it's in these files that we've been waiting to see." (07:15)

• On the DOJ/FBI process, TJ Holmes:

  "So at the time, how did it then get into the files?... If something is ruled a fake or a fake document, you wouldn't keep it in your files." (11:27)

• Broad disillusionment, TJ:

  "I'm so confused as to what I should believe and what I should not...It numbs you to the whole thing and you just don't believe anything." (10:12)

• On redactions and lack of resolution, Amy:

  "There is not a fact in this case. This makes the case worse, in my opinion." (14:49)

• On government dysfunction, TJ Holmes:

  "He wants to pass another law to enforce another law which if we start doing that, oh my God, what's the point of passing the law in the first place?...It's a circus. It's silly. And this is why people get frustrated with our government...this is where we end up." (21:29)

• Closing disillusionment, Amy:

  "It erodes trust that was only hanging on by a thread anyway." (22:34)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:42 – Amy sets up the episode’s skeptical theme regarding the Epstein files release
• 06:44 – TJ reads the pivotal (fake) Epstein-to-Nassar letter
• 08:06 – 09:31 – DOJ’s first public statement raising doubts about the letter’s authenticity
• 10:18 – FBI confirms the letter is fake and details why
• 13:31 – Amy and TJ discuss redactions and how "transparency" failed
• 15:36 – TJ loses hope in DOJ transparency
• 20:12 – Discussion of "inherent contempt" and legislative escalation
• 21:29 – TJ's indictment of legislative "buffoonery"
• 22:34 – Amy encapsulates the trust crisis
• 23:13 – Amy’s closing (with a humorous nod to Santa being more likely than a full Epstein file release)

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Tone & Style

Throughout, Amy and TJ vacillate between professional journalistic skepticism and frustration verging on humor. Their language is informal yet pointed, with candid asides indicating personal disillusionment with official processes and a deep empathy for listeners who seek real answers.

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Summary

This episode serves both as a real-time correction to previous reporting and a broader meditation on the collapse of faith in the DOJ’s handling of the Epstein files. As new documents, purportedly explosive, are quickly discredited—yet still released—Amy and TJ voice not just their confusion, but a communal exhaustion. Amid redactions, political wrangling, and accusations of "fake documents," the hosts underscore a central theme: trust in the system is fraying, and the public is left with more questions than answers.

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Transcript

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[Amy Robach]

Hey there folks. It is Wednesday, December 24, Christmas Eve and we assure you you have a better chance of seeing Santa Claus tonight than ever seeing all the Epstein files And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. What's the point we're hopping on here because we need to update, I guess, correct, some reporting we had yesterday that we got from the DOJ that's now come back and said one of the biggest things in the Epstein files that everybody saw is fake.

[TJ Holmes]

You know, the problem with that is that if there is ever anything negative or anything they don't like or anything they don't want to be taken as truth, they'll just say it's fake. That has been the response to everything. And it gets to a point where now what's the point of releasing any file if any file that's damaging or negative towards the administration is just duped or deemed fake?

[Amy Robach]

You're going with that. You think that that's all this is. And you immediately were dismissive and thought that that's all this is.

[TJ Holmes]

As a human, as a journalist, yes. And the reason being the past has also shown this exact same result. When we had the Epstein birthday book and Trump's clear, you know, imaging of breasts and his little poem or whatever to Jeffrey Epstein, that certainly insinuated something that we don't want to think about with Trump and his love of girls, he said it, not my signature. So what are you supposed to do? Everything that is shown or revealed that has anything to do with Trump, not my signature. You even had Prince Andrew saying that photo's a fake of me and Virginia Giuffre. If everyone just says that's fake, how are we supposed to actually consider any of this evidence?

[Amy Robach]

When you say it that way, this is a clear. It's a pattern we have seen. This isn't a one off. Right? Okay. So when you do that, it's hard you do and it's. It's of their own doing that. Maybe we take things they say with a grain of salt, but this Robes, here we are and we're hopping on yesterday another dump of Epstein files. I think it was the third major dump, but it's kind of a trickle that's come out. All of it was supposed to be out last Friday based on law, but it wasn't. So they're continuing to redact and put stuff out. One of the things we got yesterday, Robes was a letter, the text of a letter purportedly sent from Jeffrey Epstein in the day surrounding his death to Larry Nassar, of all people. Larry Nassar is in jail in. Is it. Where is he being kept? In Arizona. Is he moved?

[Sophie Cunningham]

I believe.

[TJ Holmes]

I don't know where he's moved to. Obviously many of these crimes happened in Arizona. He's from. He had obviously committed plenty of crimes in the Michigan State University campus as well.

[Amy Robach]

A reminder. But people know who he is by now, right?

[TJ Holmes]

He is probably. Well, I would say he is one of the most notorious pedophiles, convicted of 200 plus girls of sexually abusing young girls. But more than 330 girls have come forward over a two decade period saying, he sexually assaulted me. He was not only a physician at the university. Sorry, at the Michigan State University dealing with gymnasts, but also was with the Olympian teams, the girls who were all training to become our Olympians. He was in charge of their health care and was just sexually abusing most, if not all of them.

[Amy Robach]

So big deal, big scandal, big time criminal, spending the rest of his life in prison. So in this batch of Epstein files that were released, we were all like, what in God's name? Why is Epstein writing to Larry Nassar? And then the text of what he wrote, again, this is a postcard. We see. This isn't just some here. This is supposed to be Epstein's handwriting. So this letter comes out, the text of the letter from Epstein to Nasser, you have it in front of you?

[TJ Holmes]

Yes.

[Amy Robach]

Okay.

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[TJ Holmes]

Now, I have taken the short route home. That's him referencing his suicide. That would happen, I guess, within days. Good luck. We shared one day our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they reach their full potential. Our president also shares our love of young nubile girls. When a young beauty walked by, he loved to grab snatch, whereas we ended up snatching grub in the mess halls of the system. Life is unfair. Yours, Jay Epstein.

[Amy Robach]

Okay, that's explosive, if true. And it's in these files that we've been waiting to see. So they're coming out now. Wow. We're seeing this for the first time. That's huge. Is how we took it and a lot of people took it at the time.

[TJ Holmes]

Yes. And look, I. I'm sure plenty of people who are into this story and have been following the story have read a lot of the Jeffrey Epstein's letters and he did write a lot. Look, obviously have no way of knowing now because the FBI will get to what they said and what their statement was. But this does have the same tone and the same like, poetic the way he wrote. That's why it seemed legit to me initially. I didn't even question it because everything I've seen that sounds like how Jeffrey Epstein talks or Writes. When you look at how he has written other folks, he is poetic like that and speaks like that.

[Amy Robach]

Oh, wow. Okay. So this letter gets out. It is buzzing. There were a couple of things. Look, you got journalists all over this country, organizations pouring over thousands and thousands of these documents. And as they were pouring over them, certain things start to come out. And you. It's, it's interesting to see what news organization thinks, what is important or of note. All of them thought this was of note. Yeah, this was the headline everywhere. So as that news starts going out, which appears to be a suicide note from Jeffrey Epstein, Epstein referencing the president liking young girls. So the DOJ first tweet yesterday to kind of explain things, said the DOJ is currently looking into the validity of this alleged letter from Jeffrey Epstein to Larry Nassar. We will follow up as soon as possible. In the meantime, three facts stand out. The postmark on the envelope is Virginia, not New York, where Epstein was jailed. The return address listed the wrong jail where Epstein was held and did not include his inmate number, which is required for outgoing mail. And the envelope was processed three days after Epstein's death. That's the first tweet they sent out. Kind of setting us up to say, hold on, we're looking into this isn't question number one, Rose. Why did it come out if they were looking over documents? Somebody was supposed to have been going through stuff to make sure if anything needs to be redacted. Why is a fake letter in there?

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah, that. That is puzzling to me.

[Amy Robach]

Oversight, maybe.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah. What a huge oversight. They've had a lot of time. I would think anytime they see anything with Trump, it would be flagged and then they would look at it and say, yeah, no, or redact this. So I don't know how the process works. I just know that the level of trust, unfortunately, that most Americans have right now, and certainly a lot of journalists with the information coming out of the administration, it's tough to know because if you're told one thing and then another thing happens and they say, never mind. I'm so confused as to what I should believe and what I should not. It's really. It numbs you to the whole thing and you just don't believe anything.

[Amy Robach]

So they follow up after that first one saying that they were looking into it. You have the follow up one in.

[TJ Holmes]

Front of you as well? Yes, Yes, a follow up tweet. The FBI has confirmed this alleged letter from Jeffrey Epstein to Larry Nassar is fake. The fake letter was received by the jail and flagged for the FBI at the time. The FBI made this conclusion based on the following facts. So at the time, how did it then get into the files? All right. The writing does not appear to match Jeffrey Epstein's. The letter was postmarked three days after Epstein's death out of Northern Virginia when he was jailed in New York. The return address did not list the jail where Epstein was held and did not include his inmate number, which is required for outgoing mail. This fake letter serves as a reminder that just because a document is released by the Department of Justice does not make the allegations or claims within the document factual. Nevertheless, the DOJ will continue to release all material required by law. Are they required to release documents that have been deemed fake? That doesn't seem possible.

[Amy Robach]

But they're supposed to release all they have. This is still in a pile of files somewhere.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay, but if you're an. If you're any sort of an agency where you're. You're collecting evidence, you're collect. If something is ruled a fake or a fake document, you wouldn't keep it in your files. You would remove it, you would trash it.

[Amy Robach]

It was received by the jail and flagged for the FBI at the time. So that mean this letter is. He died in 2019. 20. 1919. So we're talking six years ago. A jail received a letter and they flagged that letter to the FBI at the time that determined it was fake. Six years ago. Is that statement. Am I reading that statement right?

[TJ Holmes]

Yes, that is what they are saying. That is what they are saying.

[Amy Robach]

So fresh off of Jeffrey Epstein's death, someone somewhere had the thought to write a fake letter and send it three days after he died. Is what I'm now supposed to believe? Yes, sweethearts, please tell me if I'm.

[TJ Holmes]

Missing the story they're telling, what they are claiming. That is what. But the problem is, look, I would say before, look, we've always, as journalists, had to be skeptical of every organization, the FBI, the government, whatever. You can't just take what someone tells you and says. Sure, but I've never felt like at a point now where, as a journalist, the FBI comes out and says something, we have done the investigation. We can tell you this is fact. And, and me still question it. It is. It's. It's sad to me as a. An American and as a journalist, I don't. I don't trust what I'm hearing because I know what I'm seeing and I know what I'm reading and I know their tactics with how they're Releasing the information. When they're releasing the information, how much they're releasing. Look, they had an entire file that was released with pretty much complete and total redactions, talking about co conspirators that they were investigating. Okay.

[Amy Robach]

Aha.

[TJ Holmes]

This is what we've been looking for, right? Forget even trying to look at Trump or look at anyone whose name we already know may be associated. People want to hear these new names. These other powerful businessmen who were co conspirators who participated in some of these vile acts with underage girls. We actually have a document showing names of people who they were investigating, and they're all blacked out.

[Amy Robach]

Their reasons for that. I don't know. These folks being accused of any crime, I don't know. But Robes, this was the transparency moment. It's called the Epstein Files Transparency Act. This is what everybody is upset that hasn't gotten justice for these victims. This was the stuff that is going to change the game. And we finally get transparency. And the DOJ is telling us, don't believe anything in these files. So that is the standard they're giving us. Don't believe any of it. So what am I supposed. What do you want to do with this letter? What are we supposed to. How are we supposed to take it? This is just another thing where two sides fight about what they're seeing. I think it's this, you think it's that, and nothing is resolved. There is not a fact in this case. This makes the case worse, in my opinion.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah. Because if you have that premise, now that the FBI and the DOJ are asking you to view all of these documents through. Through. If you're supposed to look through that lens, that all some of this or all of this could just be fake. Well, then I can't believe. Then why release anything? Because anything you release, you'll just say is fake. So what am I supposed to do with any of the information you're releasing?

[Amy Robach]

There are no facts.

[TJ Holmes]

Believe any of it.

[Amy Robach]

There are no facts or just some.

[TJ Holmes]

Of it, or what you tell me to believe. It's. It's frustrating. It's beyond frustrating.

[Amy Robach]

Well, folks, they. So you think we could possibly. Possibly one day soon. Look, maybe. Robes, this was just a step. This is just a part of the process, a step along the way to get closer to real transparency. Is that fair, to hold on to that hope? Maybe here on this Christmas Eve?

[TJ Holmes]

I'm sorry, I've lost hope about that. I hope for a lot of other things on this Christmas Eve, but not in the Department of Justice.

[Amy Robach]

Well, stay here. We'll tell you what Chuck Schumer is hoping for. We'll tell you what a couple of members of the House of Representatives, the Democrat and Republican, are hoping for on this Christmas Eve as well. And it might involve seeing one Pam Bondi in jail.

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[Amy Robach]

All right, folks, we continue on this Christmas Eve. Wow. We had to hop on and give the update. We had to correct some reporting that we had here yesterday. Right, Robes? All of the reporting comes from the same source, but they're telling us now that the story is different. The DOJ gave us a document that said that this was a letter from Jeffrey Epstein to Larry Nassar. DOJ came back later, Robes, and told us, hey, that letter we put out earlier, it's fake. Don't believe it, move on.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah. And so that just undermines the whole process, the file release, because now anything that is untoward or anything they don't like, that's all they have to say.

[Amy Robach]

Well, folks, so what do we do now? How long did that fight go on? I mean, the President and Marjorie Taylor Greene fell out over this whole issue of the Epstein files. We've been fighting over this all year to get this release. We finally get the release. They didn't come out on time like the law required. Things are heavily redacted. And so you got plenty of folks on Capitol Hill that are pissed. And is it inherent, what was it called? Inherent contempt?

[TJ Holmes]

It's a specific contempt.

[Amy Robach]

Okay. This is what the two lawmakers, a bipartisan group, wants to hold Pam Bondi an inherent contempt, which, Robes, I think you looked into it more than I do. It's essentially saying, go arrest her.

[TJ Holmes]

Yes, it would call for, I think, the Sergeant at Arms to arrest Attorney General Pam Bondi and put her behind bars until all of the files are released. And it was noted that this inherent contempt has never been used in modern times. So I don't know where they went into the. To dig up this potential thing they could throw at her and say, yeah, we're going to threaten you with prison time until you actually follow through and produce what the law requires.

[Amy Robach]

And clearly that threat is working.

[TJ Holmes]

Totally.

[Amy Robach]

Okay. The other option here, which is the one that's just, just why Chuck Schumer is now introducing a resolution in which would compel the Senate to. To what it some take some legal action against the DOJ for not releasing these items.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly what you just said there.

[Amy Robach]

Okay, yeah. What's the. What's the point? So that was the one Robes. We thought it was ridiculous that you have to make legislation to enforce the legislation you already passed.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah, he wants to pass another law to enforce another law which if we start doing that, oh my God, what's the point of passing the law in the first place? Why don't you go ahead and then give a punishment if the law that you're passing isn't enforced and just put it all in one bill because that's where we are. And even when you threaten that or say they even got a law passed that created some sort of punishment that was going to happen if you didn't follow through with the initial law, then you'd have to get another law to enforce the enforcement. I mean, I'm just saying, like where does it end? This is all buffoonery. It's a circus. It's silly. And this is why people get frustrated with our government. This is why people don't vote, because they think what does it matter any way? Because this is where we end up. But this is a colossal mess and has eroded trust. That was hanging on by a thread. Anyway, when it comes to. That's funny, really. It's true though, between I think the American public and the people who represent us, what is the trust level right now?

[Amy Robach]

No, I'm laughing because I think that I might use that as our quote of the day in the morning run from Amy Robach. It erodes trust. That was only hanging on by a thread. Anyway, with that folks, we just wanted to hop on, give you that update because we were told by the people who gave us information yesterday that the information we passed along to you from them is now wrong. So just wanted to give you that update more with it what you will.

[Angel Diego]

Yes.

[Amy Robach]

But hope you are getting your Christmas Eve off to a good start. And yes folks, we mean it. You do have a better chance of seeing Saint Nick than ever seeing an unredacted full Epstein file release. That's. I feel pretty good about that.

[TJ Holmes]

Yes. And with that everyone, merry Christmas.

[Amy Robach]

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[Eva Longoria]

This is Eva Longoria from Hungry for History with Eva Longoria and Maite Gomez Rejon. Like the song says, it's the most wonderful time of the year and also a wonderfully busy one. All that merriment can weigh down even Santa Sleigh, so keep it wonderful by keeping yourself wonderful with a crisp, cold Coca Cola. Ah, pause for fizzy joy. Look out for yourself and then look out for everyone else. And together we'll make this season as wonderful as it's meant to be. Enjoy a Coca Cola refresh your holidays.

[LG Gram Advertiser]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop, voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[CVS Representative]

At CVS it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night, and we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location.

[Whimsound Advertiser]

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $299. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, wind sound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound that's W I I M S O U n D this is an I Heart podcast.

[CVS Representative]

Guaranteed human.