Epstein Victims Say They Have A List, But Will We Ever See It?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Epstein Victims Say They Have A List, But Will We Ever See It?"

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present – iHeartPodcasts (September 4, 2025)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Amy Robach and TJ Holmes dissect the explosive press conference held by several Jeffrey Epstein victims at the U.S. Capitol. The focus: a public announcement by the victims that they are compiling their own list of Epstein’s clients and associates—one that may never be released to the public. Amy and TJ analyze implications, discuss statements made by survivors and their attorney, and consider the impact of such an announcement on the ongoing search for accountability in the Epstein case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Press Conference & Its Purpose

Segment [03:23 – 05:07]

• The press conference, held outside the Capitol, was organized by Democratic and Republican members of Congress who are advocating for the release of Epstein-related files.
• For the first time, more than ten victims—most publicly anonymous until now—stood with their attorney, Brad Edwards, to recount their experiences and demand further action.
• Survivors declared their intention to collaborate on a private list of individuals connected to Epstein’s crimes.

Notable Quote:

• TJ Holmes: "This was an extraordinary showing outside the Capitol yesterday… A bombshell of sorts… they're saying they're going to put together their own list." [03:23]

2. Who’s on the List—and Will We See It?

Segment [04:09 – 09:34]

• Survivors insist they “know who’s involved,” but express real fear around publicizing names due to potential repercussions and lack of prior protection.
• There’s ambiguity about the scope, purpose, and potential publication of the victims’ list.

Notable Quote:

• Amy Robach: "They say there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Epstein victims… We know who the perpetrators are… but you’re not ever possibly going to hear the names because we’re afraid to tell you." [04:09]

Key Moment:

• Lisa Phillips, survivor and podcaster, announced:
  "Us Epstein survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know the names. Many of us were abused by them… It will be done for survivors and by survivors. No one else is involved. Stay tuned for more details." [08:56]

3. Congressional Action & The Unreleased Files

Segment [04:40 – 06:11]

• Congressman Ro Khanna (D-CA) claims less than 1% of the Epstein files have been released, indicating bipartisan efforts for further disclosure.
• Uncertainty lingers about what the “Epstein files” truly entail—different interpretations exist regarding redactions and data withheld for legal reasons.

Notable Exchange:

• TJ Holmes: "What does that mean? I have not heard that somewhere…"
• Amy Robach: "Could it involve all the redactions? There are other documents… those who have seen them claim all they will do is put out names of innocent people." [05:44 – 06:11]

4. Survivor Stories & Methods of Abuse

Segment [07:01 – 18:24]

• Victims such as Lisa Phillips and Shantae Davies recounted recruitment tactics—often preying on young women seeking career advancement.
• Abuse typically began with offers of money for massages, gradually escalating into sexual abuse.

Notable Quotes:

• Shantae Davies: "I was an excited young woman on top of the world. He flew me to his private island and listened to my dreams, promised to help. But the promise came with a catch." [16:39]
• Amy Robach: "Let this be a cautionary tale to any other young woman out there... Someone says, 'meet me, but give me a massage.’ That’s a really huge red flag." [17:16 – 17:49]

5. Famous Names & Public Curiosity

Segment [18:42 – 20:05]

• Survivors referenced high-profile individuals, mentioning Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, but stopped short of alleging wrongdoing by them.
• The prospect of a survivors’ list reignites public curiosity and conspiracy speculation.

Notable Exchange:

• TJ Holmes: "The only two I heard were Trump and Bill Clinton. She made a reference… but did not suggest he did anything wrong." [18:42-19:01]

6. Why Hold Back the List?

Segment [24:46 – 29:58]

• When pressed by reporters, Lisa Phillips clarified: compiling the list is primarily for survivors, not the public, and no decision has been made about releasing it.
• Fear of retribution, lack of prior protection, and potential legal threats all play into reluctance.

Notable Quotes:

• Lisa Phillips: "We’re not quite sure how we’re going to release it or even if we’re going to." [25:58]
• Amy Robach: "There’s never been a better or safer time. Now, if they do have names of people who have abused women… it would be now." [27:04]

7. The Attorney’s Clarification & Confusion Over Lists

Segment [30:56 – 33:25]

• Attorney Brad Edwards offered contradictory statements—first affirming a list exists, then saying Epstein himself didn’t keep such a list.
• He delineated between Epstein’s personal abuse and instances when he "farmed out" victims to friends.

Notable Exchange:

• Brad Edwards, paraphrased: "Is there a list? There is a list… But… that’s just not how the organization worked." [30:56 – 33:25]
• Amy Robach: "I think the distinction is… there is a list that the women are compiling… but when the reporter followed up and said, 'do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein had a list?' He said, 'there’s not a list.’" [32:09]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Announcement & Overview of Press Conference: [03:23 – 05:07]
• Congressional Efforts & File Release Controversy: [04:40 – 06:11]
• Victim Testimonies & The Method of Abuse: [07:34 – 18:24]
• Famous Names Surface: [18:42 – 20:05]
• Discussion of the New Survivors’ List: [24:46 – 29:58]
• Attorney Brad Edwards’ Comments & Confusion: [30:56 – 33:25]

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Most Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Lisa Phillips Announces the Survivors’ List:
  "Us Epstein survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know the names… it will be done for survivors and by survivors. No one else is involved. Stay tuned for more details." [08:56]

• On the Decision to Keep Names Private:
  Lisa Phillips: "We’re not quite sure how we’re going to release it or even if we’re going to." [25:58]
  "Why do we have to say the names when the government knows the names?" [27:04]

• Attorney Brad Edwards on ‘The List’:
  "Is there a list? There is a list..." and yet, 'that’s just not how the organization worked.'" [30:56 – 33:25]

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Takeaways & Tone

• Cautious, yet courageous: Survivors publicly recount their stories and stand together, but their hesitancy to release names underscores ongoing fear and trauma.
• Persistent uncertainty: Even as new lists are promised, listeners are left unsure if the real truth will ever be fully revealed.
• Frustrated but empathetic hosts: Amy and TJ challenge the logic of keeping the list private but simultaneously acknowledge the complexity, risk, and long history of these survivors not being believed.

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Conclusion

While the press conference marked a significant milestone—survivors moving from anonymity to collective action—the primary revelations are themselves ambiguous. The promise of a "list" by victims both tantalizes and frustrates, hinting at truths still just out of the public’s reach. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes urge continued attention, recognizing that these tentative steps might eventually lead to deeper justice and broader disclosure.

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For detailed developments and analysis, tune in to future episodes of "Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present."

Transcript

[Amy Robach]

This is an iHeart podcast tired of.

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Parents hauling luggage. Kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then everything changed.

[TJ Holmes]

There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal.

[Amy Robach]

Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

[Law and Criminal Justice Narrator]

In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged. Terrorism. Listen to the new season of law and criminal justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hands Tied Podcast Narrator]

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime. My husband said you dad's been killed. This is hands Tied. A true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar. I was just completely in shock. Liz's father murdered and her mother found locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound. I didn't feel real at all. More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers.

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[TJ Holmes]

Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, September 4, and Jeffrey Epstein's victims concede he not have a list. So they have announced they are going to put their own list of Epstein clients together. However, they might not ever let us see it. And with that, everybody, welcome to Amy and TJ presents the Epstein Victims robes. This was an extraordinary showing outside the Capitol yesterday. Some of these Epstein victims, we had over 10. Some of them we never heard from before. And a bombshell of sorts that kind of got lessened a bit. But that's no doubt a headline. They're saying they're going to put together their own list.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And they say that there are hundreds, if not thousands of Epstein victims. And yeah, they're going to try and together collectively come up with a list. And it wasn't as if they had to come up with it. They said very unequivocally that we know who's involved, we know who the perpetrators are, we know who abused some of us. But you're not ever possibly going to hear the names because we're afraid to tell you.

[TJ Holmes]

So they got a lot of questions at the press conference which was organized by a couple of members of Congress, a Democrat and a Republican, who are now putting together legislation and trying to get a vote forced in Congress about the Epstein files to release all Epstein files robes. Let's stop there. I'm not sure what we're talking about anymore when we're talking about the Epstein files.

[Amy Robach]

I'm not sure either, T.J. because yes, we heard directly from Congressman Ro Khanna, who actually made the statement that less than 1% of the Jeffrey Epstein files have been released.

[TJ Holmes]

What?

[Amy Robach]

That to me, was an incredibly confusing statement. I'm not saying it isn't true, but that's the first I've heard that number. Less than 1% of the Jeffrey Epstein files have been released. And yes, he said they have all 212 Democrats and right now they have four Republicans who would force this vote.

[TJ Holmes]

They need two more Republicans, which Speaker Johnson said they will not get. So he doesn't believe that the vote is gonna come up. Fine. But, Ro, to your point, Congressman Khanna of California, Democrat, why? What does that mean? I don't have context for that statement. It could be accurate to a degree. But frankly, a lot of what we've seen lately is a lot of politicians play with these numbers and play with the. And play these word games. They might be technically true, but not really true. I don't know what that means. I have not heard that somewhere.

[Amy Robach]

Could it involve all the redactions? And look, obviously we know there are other documents that those who have seen them claim. All they will do is put out names of innocent people. So just because someone had a business dealing with or knew or was friendly with Jeffrey Epstein or there was some sort of transaction financially, those all could have been very legal and on the up sort of relationships. They don't mean that any of those people did anything wrong or anything illegal or anything immoral. So by releasing names of people who he worked alongside and perhaps traveled with and just consorted with, they'll do more harm than good putting these names out. That's the only thing that I know that is. Has been deliberately withheld.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay, so let's talk about how we got here. Yes. So they planned this press conference, the congressman, the attorney for the women, and really at least 10 of them that were up there, and they all spoke. This conference went on for a couple of hours, actually, outside at the Capitol. Now, several of them got up and they did. I think these women are to be believed, right, of what they experience. Many of them absolutely have stories that I believe, generally speaking, the veracity of them has been accepted.

[Amy Robach]

And look, Brad Edwards is their attorney and absolutely interviewed him, worked with him. He has been working officially with Epstein victims for more than a decade. And most of these victims at the time were all Jane Doe 1, Jane Doe 2, Jane Doe 3. They weren't putting their names to their stories. So it was a very big deal that there he was standing with a lot of these women who he has been representing, I don't want to say clandestinely, but certainly anonymously for more than a decade, actually stood out in front of reporters, in front of cameras, in front of the Capitol and told their story. That was a big deal.

[TJ Holmes]

So Lisa Phillips is one robes that got a lot of attention. She is not one necessarily that's been in the shadows because she even has a podcast where she talks about people being groomed and what happened to her and Epstein victim. So she has been talking about there and been out there, but she told her story. She said she had been abused. She talked about trying to get away from Epstein, going to his island and having to Be in the same circles with him and whatnot. But she, I guess, robe. She didn't. She only spoke for a couple of minutes, a short time. But in her prepared remarks, she was the one that dropped a bombshell, essentially, that had newsrooms and certainly the reporters on the scene buzzing.

[Amy Robach]

She did. She actually ended her statement by saying, I would like to announce here today. So now everybody's listening. All ears are perked up. She went on to say, us Epstein survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know the names. Many of us were abused by them. Now together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names. We all know who regularly were in the Epstein world, and it will be done for survivors and by survivors. No one else is involved. Stay tuned for more details. That. That was interesting.

[TJ Holmes]

All right, let's just stop right there. There is more we're going to get into, folks about her because she came up and followed up and that caused a little more, what confusion and certainly dissatisfaction among some of the press corps. But take her at that statement. What was your reaction to first hearing that?

[Amy Robach]

Well, so I was a little confused because, look, I understand that there is a fear of retribution in some way, but at this point, if they weren't heard, listened to or believed, and they weren't for more than a decade, if you were ever going to say who is responsible and actually want justice, why wouldn't you say their names now? If there ever wasn't protection before, there would certainly be now because the world has been waiting and listening and really, I mean, I hate to use this word, but hungry for names. This has been floated for so long. So if they are saying they know the rich and powerful people who exploited them and who abused them, why wouldn't they, in the name of justice, give those names to the press right there with those microphones and the cameras rolling, why not say them now?

[TJ Holmes]

Well, to this point, again, at this point in the press conference, when she makes this announcement, she says this is going to be an ongoing process of compiling the names. Say necessarily they had them or a complete list that they're going to all agree to at some point, but just the idea that there's not a list but one is going to be created. They are going to create. They are going to compile in secret, just them, nobody else involved. I guess they're trying to tell us that no politics is going to involve in it. This is just us for us, by us. I thought when I heard that initially my eyes got big. Well, wow. And then I got concerned because now we got another list floating around that people are going. There's going to be more conspiracy theorists about and more conjecture about who's on and who do it. Just like, oh, this is going to cause another mess. But that was a, a bombshell announcement today that there will be a client.

[Amy Robach]

List that we may or may not ever hear.

[TJ Holmes]

Well, I hadn't gotten to that just yet. There were several other people who did speak during the the press conference today. Again, several of them got up and told their stories. Robes, I didn't recognize. I know some of them talk for the first time, but I didn't recognize a lot of these folks and a lot of these names. I guess Virginia Giuffre was the one that most people do know. Obviously she died by suicide earlier this year. But a lot of these, and I ask you as well, are these folks besides, for the young lady who has a podcast and been out there, I didn't, I wasn't familiar with a lot of these names. And a lot of these folks, they.

[Amy Robach]

Aren'T household names, but they have been speaking again as like Jane Doe number one, Jane Doe number two. Through court documents, their stories have been told, but I had not seen names and faces attached to stories the way we did in this press conference. And some of these women have spoken out in recent years, certainly following the death of Jeffrey Epstein. And some of these women testified in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial, so their identities would have been protected during that time. So, yeah, this might be the first time a lot of us have seen at least the faces of go along with the stories and the names.

[TJ Holmes]

Shantae Davies, one of them, I believe she did say she testified at one of the trials. She young lady told her story. She said she been, she's been a survivor of decades of trauma by Maxwell and Epstein. Look, she was, this was 2002, I think she said, when she first got into that world. So if you think about that, no, she's not saying the abuse went on for 20 years, but what she's saying is she's been dealing with this for decades and it hasn't necessarily gone away. I was interested Robes to hear her tell the story of how she got in the world. This was a young lady who was trying to be an actress. She was trying to advance her career in la, met Ghislaine Maxwell, and this is how she put it, she was told by a person she trusted had asked her to meet a powerful woman who could help advance my career. That woman happened to be Ghislaine Maxwell. I was asked to give her a massage though I had almost no experience. And when I did, she praised me and promised to introduce me to someone enormously powerful, someone who had changed the course of my life. That man was Jeffrey Epstein. Is this how it went? It was such a bizarre to hear her tell the tale. I know they've told their stories before but she was a 20, 21, 22 year old actress. You a friend says meet this lady I know because she could help you with your career. And she asked for a massage and the young lady complied. That is something I think a lot about this story that's hard to figure out. What was Ghislaine Maxwell, what were they thinking and what were these young ladies also possibly thinking?

[Amy Robach]

According to many of these young ladies and some of them were wildly underage starting at the age of 14, 15, 16. And they're promised money in exchange for a massage. And in a classic grooming styling, each massage gets a little bit more sexual to the point where it ends up being full blown abuse. Abuse. So I get that now when you are it's this seemed as though it was abuse via transaction almost. And it wasn't exactly like Harvey Weinstein because those stories were of forcible. He was forcing himself on actresses who wanted roles in private hotel rooms. This was a little bit different, but they all did. Every story that I have heard so far involves these massages that turn sexual. But I do think it's also some of these stories. Some of these women who stood up today talked about them wanting something and Jeffrey Epstein promising something. Basically a career, a modeling career, an acting career. And so he took advantage of young women who had goals and aspirations. I believe it was Lisa Phillips who said I thought this was really interesting. She said hundreds of ambitious young women in New York City were abused by Epstein. The victims were not just underaged girls in Florida. I don't even like the idea of pitting those two groups of victims against one another. But I did think it was interesting. She used hundreds of ambitious young women in New York City. So from her story and from the story of Shantae, it did seem as though they wanted something from him. Connections, opportunities. Doors opened and in some cases those did happen. At least Lisa talked about being introduced and being able to meet the head of the Ford Agency, Ford Modeling Agency. But Shantae said very quickly that all of her his promises were empty. They all came with a catch. And that's the abuse that she's referencing. And she said he told me to keep it a Secret. Yeah.

[TJ Holmes]

But to hear her say she meets a woman who immediately tells her to give her a massage. And the next thing you know, she says she meets Epstein. I was an excited young woman on top of the world. He flew me to his private island and listened to my dreams, promised to help. But like you said, promise came with a catch. That's to hear if this was the method, if this was their M.O. it was just. I, I didn't. When you meet what it's tough to understand. You meet a woman for the first time of the business transaction, help me with my career, give me a massage. That's just odd.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And I think a lot of people, you don't want to judge or victim shame in any way, but a lot of people are scratching their heads just thinking, what did you think this was going to lead to? If that was the entrance, give this woman a massage. And then she said she complimented her on her massage abilities even though she said she had never been trained. I just feel like at least let this be a cautionary tale to any other young woman out there trying to make it in whatever industry. Someone says, yeah, meet me, but give me a massage. That's a really huge red flag.

[TJ Holmes]

But that does not. Obviously you got to make sure this is not a victim blaming situation. But to hear how this is the first time I've heard a detail. She talked about liking massages herself all the time. Right. She said she would go recruit, she would go to her own places to get massages at professional places and she'd have a nice one. And then she said, oh, Epstein might like this person to think you meet somebody for the first time who's an actress and you ask her for a massage. What were these people doing, Maxwell? What was she doing?

[Amy Robach]

They were capitalizing on the hopes and dreams and hunger of young women who wanted to make it. And they were, they were taking that and using it for their advantage and they didn't care what happened to these young women.

[TJ Holmes]

She also went on, I think everybody's talking about, you want to hear about big names? The only two I heard were Trump and Bill Clinton.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[TJ Holmes]

She made a reference just to Shantae Davies is that she was on a plane and flew to Africa with former president Bill Clinton and notable figures is all she said. Fine. But she slid his name in there. Did not suggest he did anything wrong.

[Amy Robach]

No.

[TJ Holmes]

And the other was Donald Trump. Said he bragged about his powerful friends, including Donald Trump. Said he kept an 8 by 10 picture framed of him on his desk.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. She actually made a point to say it was his biggest brag, actually. So she wanted to make that exceptionally clear that that's the person that Epstein claimed to be most proud of being friends with.

[TJ Holmes]

So we hear folks say notable figures, we hear Clinton mentioned, we hear Trump mentioned, we hear Maxwell mentioned, we hear Epstein mentioned, and that's it. They go on and talk about this list and this is going to get a lot of people's attention because if they put a list together and if they were to dare put it on a piece of paper or dare to put it on a computer, everybody's going to be after that thing. So I don't know how they're gonna go about it. But folks, even though they say they are putting a list together, they were asked on more than one occasion by these reporters, when can we see it? Will we see it? The answer so far is no.

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[Ed (Comedian)]

My name is Ed. Everyone say hello Ed.

[TJ Holmes]

Hello Ed.

[Ed (Comedian)]

I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer and my mum is a cousin. So like it's not like what do.

[Wisecrack Podcast Narrator]

You get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start.

[Amy Robach]

Of a bad joke, but that really.

[Wisecrack Podcast Narrator]

Was my reality nine years ago.

[Ed (Comedian)]

I just normally do straight stand up, but this is a bit different.

[Wisecrack Podcast Narrator]

On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear.

[Ed (Comedian)]

On 22 July 2015 a 23 year old man had killed his family and then he came to my house.

[Wisecrack Podcast Narrator]

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club. A new podcast called Wisecrack where stand up comedy and murder take center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Law and Criminal Justice Narrator]

The holiday rush. Parents hauling luggage. Kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then at 6:33pm Everything changed.

[TJ Holmes]

There's been a bombing. At the time, TWA terminal. Apparently the explosion actually impelled metal glass. The injured were being loaded into ambulances.

[Amy Robach]

Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

[Law and Criminal Justice Narrator]

In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged. And it was here to stay. Terrorism, law and order. Criminal justice system is back. In season two, we're turning our focus to a third that hides in plain sight that's harder to predict and even harder to stop. Listen to the new season of law and criminal justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[TJ Holmes]

It was an unimaginable crime.

[Hands Tied Podcast Narrator]

It's four consecutive live terms for Bryan Coburger who killed the four University of Idaho students.

[TJ Holmes]

The defense are on a sinking ship.

[Amy Robach]

It was clear at that point he.

[TJ Holmes]

Was out of options. Nearly 30 months of silence until bombshell development.

[Hands Tied Podcast Narrator]

Bryan Kohberger appearing set to accept a plea deal just five weeks before his quadruple murder trial was set to start. No trial, no testimony.

[TJ Holmes]

He has pleaded guilty to five criminal counts, one of burglary and then four counts of murder.

[Amy Robach]

In this final season, we return to.

[TJ Holmes]

Moscow with interviews from those still searching for answers.

[Amy Robach]

Why did the prosecution take this?

[Ed (Comedian)]

They were holding all the cards.

[Amy Robach]

How on earth could you make a deal?

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What message does that send?

[TJ Holmes]

Listen to season three of the Idaho.

[Law and Criminal Justice Narrator]

Massacre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[TJ Holmes]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

Welcome back to this edition of Amy and tj. We are talking about this powerful and jaw dropping press conference held by several of the Jeffrey Epstein victims. They were flanked by several U.S. congressmen and women in addition to their attorney Brad Edwards. And they stood up one by one and told their Story, but even more headline grabbing. And notably, they claimed that they were going to compile their own list, that they knew the names of these other powerful associates of Epstein who have so far been untouched or unnamed. And in the name of justice, they said they were going to collaborate and confidentially create a list of these men, maybe even women. We don't know that everyone has been clamoring for. Because how long have we been hearing about an Epstein client list? Where is the list? Where's the client list? What does Ghislaine Maxwell know? What did Jeffrey Epstein take with him in his suicide that we'll never find out? Well, these women claim that they know.

[TJ Holmes]

How powerful is that? If they came up today and said, hey, we have the list and we're gonna put it together. So when you hear that, the first thing I thought was, my goodness, when are we going to see this thing? And then Lisa Phillips came back up to the podium after a question was asked at the end about the list. And this is how she responded to a question about the list. We're reaching out to survivors who are scared to come forward and that also know who they were trafficked to. And that's the list we're compiling. We're not quite sure how we're going to release it or even if we're going to. That was the record scratch moment. You could tell for the reporters, like, whoa, what do you mean you're gonna put it together and keep it secret? Isn't that exactly what the problem is right now in the controversy is that the government has the list and they're keeping it secret? So now we got two secret lists gonna be floating.

[Amy Robach]

And then, as reporters often do, they asked a follow up question and it was the one that was in all of our heads. I was like, hell, yeah, that's the question I would have asked.

[TJ Holmes]

What?

[Amy Robach]

Why won't you say the names? Why won't you? Lisa Phillips said back to that reporter, why do we have to say the names when the government knows the names? And then she also referenced the fact that they were scared to do so. They weren't listened to before, so why should they believe they would be listened to now? I have a really good answer for that. Everyone wants to hear what you have to say now. And yes, she's right. No one wanted to hear what they had to say a decade ago. That is absolutely true. And I understand how that might be scary. And there, there might be a lot of PTSD surrounding that. Threats of lawsuits, threats of bodily harm, I get that. But there's never been a better or safer time. Now, if they do have names of people who have abused women, who might still be abusing women, if there was ever a time to do it, it would be now. I also wonder why they've got this big press conference together. It's just interesting to me, the reasoning behind announcing that you're going to create a list but then saying you might not release it. Why not either just make a list and release it or not. I don't understand the purpose of saying you have one and that you know the names, but that you might not release them.

[TJ Holmes]

Does it put anybody on notice? Does it put any pressure on the government, I.

[Amy Robach]

To do what?

[TJ Holmes]

I don't know, release their list, is.

[Amy Robach]

That they claim there isn't one.

[TJ Holmes]

There is not a list. So they're telling the government, we don't want to release ours. You release yours, is what she's saying. Now we can't make sense. And look, these are victims of horror. So wherever their heads are and what they decide to do, I don't know what threats they've received and what their lives have been like, you do your thing. But today, as far as moving the story ahead, as far as getting answers to the public, this, or at least that move robes put us in a. Now another confusing situation of, oh, so there are names. And they're standing in front of cameras yesterday saying, the people you're looking at up here, we know the list, but we're not gonna tell you. That's. That's gonna. Yeah, I mean, they could do their thing, but I don't know what that created now.

[Amy Robach]

Well, it created more questions, it created more interest. It created. It created headlines. And maybe that's what they wanted to do. And then maybe they'll release whatever they want to release in time. But they got our attention. And maybe that was just the whole purpose, not to do a big information dump, but to actually start to get people's attention and then maybe they will start to reveal the names or the information they want the public to know.

[TJ Holmes]

You know, that's a good point. If they had said two names, that's all we would have been talking about today, right? We would have been talking about necessarily them being victimized. We wouldn't, I guess, focused on who these names are, but I don't know, are these people still out there victimizing?

[Amy Robach]

I mean, if they have stories, personal stories with their attacker or abuser's name that we haven't heard yet, those stories would be powerful and they would be told so you know, I think they will have to decide. And I don't know if this is, I mean, they, they were very unified and they were cheering each other on and they were supporting one another, which was beautiful to see. But I'm not sure what the level, level of collaboration or agreement is as to what they should do or how they should do it. So maybe they just, they want to stick together and I understand that maybe no one woman wants to come out on her own and say something, so they need to all agree on it, on the timing and the purpose of what it is that they're doing.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay, so we're going to wrap now folks, on two more very important and maybe maybe the most key moment of the entire press conference in a lot of ways. But it's further the confusion. Robes, because they're attorney was up there, he made a couple of comments, made a comment that there is a list, that there's not a list, and that we're creating a list. So the first quote from him I'll share is that him saying that every one of these women was abused by Jeffrey Epstein and his scheme was to personally abuse women when they reached a certain age. He did farm some of them out. To some of his friends, he used that phrase, farm than them out. He said not all of his friends, but some of his friends, he formed these people out to. And ending with this quote, with that said, I'm more than happy to assist in creating the list behind the scenes and see what we do with it now. Previously he also said, talking about Epstein, nobody protected these women the first time. Is there a list? There is a list. That's what he said. But Robes, he completely threw that out the window with another comment.

[Amy Robach]

I think the distinction is, my best assessment is that there is a list that the women are compiling that the women have. But when the reporter followed up and said, do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein had a list? He said, there's not a list. And he said that very clearly with.

[TJ Holmes]

The women behind him, many nodding in agreement.

[Amy Robach]

Correct. Because he said, though he was just basically saying that without the people who I guess would be on this list, he could not have done this. But the purpose was for him to personally abuse people. Again, he talked about some of some of his friends that he farmed out women to, but that wasn't the primary purpose of his scheme. So he's saying, I don't think he wrote down the names of the people who he farmed out women to. Yes, there are names of people who he worked with and who helped him operate in his scheme, but he was basically saying it was a personal scheme for Jeffrey Epstein, not necessarily for the other people on the list. It is incredibly confusing.

[TJ Holmes]

And he ended with that's just not how the organization worked. So I look, Rose, I'm glad. I think a lot of people are glad. And look, I'm happy they're having a moment. If they feel more comfortable as a unit to come out and to be public and to take back their lives, their story in some way, to be in the middle of it or even help the country in some way heal from all of this back and forth and to some kind of way find a lesson or some peace in all this, then that's great. And we are now standing by and waiting for another list to be compiled that maybe we will and maybe we won't see. Robes.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, we will all have to stay tuned for more details, as Lisa Phillips told us in the press conference. And we will certainly do that and bring you any new developments as they become available. But for now, I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes. Thanks as always for listening.

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[Ed (Comedian)]

I just normally do straight stand up, but this is a bit different.

[Wisecrack Podcast Narrator]

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story.

[Ed (Comedian)]

Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life.

[Wisecrack Podcast Narrator]

This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Law and Criminal Justice Narrator]

Parents hauling luggage. Kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then everything changed.

[TJ Holmes]

There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal.

[Amy Robach]

Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

[Law and Criminal Justice Narrator]

In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged. Terrorism. Listen to the new season of law and criminal justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hands Tied Podcast Narrator]

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime. My husband said, your dad's been killed. This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar. I was just completely in shock. Liz's father murdered and her mother found locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound. It didn't feel real at all. More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers.

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[Hands Tied Podcast Narrator]

Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

This is an iHeart podcast.