Flipping on the Feds?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Episode: Flipping on the Feds?
Release Date: June 18, 2025
Hosts: Amy Robach, T.J. Holmes
Guest: Aubrey O’Day

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Overview

In this episode of Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, former reality star and television personality Aubrey O'Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes to dissect the ongoing trial of music mogul Diddy. The discussion delves deep into the testimonies, legal strategies, and broader implications of the case that has captured national attention.

Key Testimonies and Their Impact

Jane Doe vs. Cassie Ventura

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the contrasting testimonies of two key witnesses: Jane Doe and Cassie Ventura.

• Jane Doe's Testimony:

  • Reshaan McDonald notes, "[...] Jane Doe testified for over 24 hours total over a six-day period. She initially presented herself as a victim but later appeared to manipulate the situation to suit her narrative." (04:30)
  • Host Amy Robach expresses skepticism about Jane Doe’s credibility, stating, "The fact that he still continues to pay for her attorney and he continues to pay for her rent while she accuses him of coercion is troubling." (05:23)
  • The duo suggests that Jane Doe's inconsistent and seemingly self-serving testimony has muddled the prosecution's case, making it harder for jurors to discern the truth.

• Cassie Ventura's Testimony:

  • Contrastingly, Cassie Ventura's earlier testimony was described as "profound" and "captivating," effectively establishing a narrative of coercion and violence perpetrated by Diddy.
  • Reshaan adds, "Cassie never wavered. She never looked at Diddy once when she said she was reclaiming her truth." (55:24)

Credibility of Witnesses

The hosts extensively debate the credibility of the witnesses and the prosecution's choices in presenting their testimonies.

• Reshaan McDonald criticizes the prosecution's decision to include Jane Doe, labeling it as a strategic misstep that diluted Cassie Ventura's impactful testimony.
• Amy Robach concurs, highlighting the conflict of interest in providing ongoing financial support to Jane Doe while she's testifying against Diddy.
• A notable exchange includes Robach questioning, "Who gets on the stand for the prosecution and has not only just their home and their lifestyle but their attorney, me, paid for by the man that they are there to sit and call their abuser?" (04:30)

Legal Strategies and RICO Charges

A central theme of the discussion revolves around the application of the RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) charges against Diddy.

• Reshaan outlines the legal framework, stating, "RICO suggests that you're at the top and. And it can be an individual or individuals." (21:24)
• They discuss the sufficiency of evidence required for RICO, with Reshaan asserting, "They have established a pattern of racketeering. They have different points under RICO that you'd have to be able to prove. And remember, they only need two." (21:24)
• The hosts express concerns over whether the prosecution can convincingly tie Diddy to multiple criminal activities beyond sex trafficking, emphasizing the complexity added by contradictory testimonies.

Defense Tactics and Potential Challenges

The episode explores anticipated defense strategies and their potential effectiveness in swaying the jury.

• The hosts predict that the defense will focus on humanizing Diddy by highlighting his role as a father and his personal relationships, thereby appealing to the jury's emotions.
• Reshaan remarks, "The Defense is going to try to humanize him... he's a dad, he's a son, he has children, they care about him." (48:55)
• They also speculate on the possibility of more co-conspirators emerging, which could complicate the prosecution’s case further.

Public and Jury Influence

The influence of public perception and media portrayal on the jury is another critical point of discussion.

• Both hosts agree that witnessing the dynamic between Jane Doe and T.J. Tenney on the stand might have created a biased perception among jurors.
• Reshaan comments, "It's like watching a reality TV show... they were like juror 6 wasn't even really giving the back and forth, but they said people were watching it like a reality TV show." (25:38)
• They express concern that sensational testimonies could overshadow the factual and legal aspects of the case, leading to a split verdict.

Predictions and Conclusions

In wrapping up the episode, the hosts offer their predictions and final thoughts on the trial's trajectory.

• Reshaan is optimistic about the RICO charges but remains doubtful about the sex trafficking allegations due to the weakened prosecution case stemming from Jane Doe's testimony.
• Amy emphasizes the need for the prosecution to clearly articulate the RICO framework in their closing statements to ensure jurors understand the breadth of Diddy's alleged criminal network.
• Both agree that the final stages of the trial, including Diddy's own testimony, will be pivotal in determining the outcome.

Notable Quotes

• Reshaan McDonald: "This was the first witness where Diddy was fidgeting a lot. It was giving, I'm coming here for you, but I'm gonna let you sweat a little bit." (04:30)
• Amy Robach: "I have a hard time finding that or believing that. And I hate to say that because I'm a woman's woman." (05:46)
• Reshaan McDonald: "Diddy knows that as well. I believe that we have sex trafficking with Cassie. I Don't know about sex trafficking with Jane." (21:24)
• Amy Robach: "She didn’t put Diddy on the stand, she didn't..." (07:23)
• Reshaan McDonald: "If you sit in juror and you go, oh, that sounds bad...you she sent him her price, then she did more freak-offs." (09:08)
• Amy Robach: "The provision that she’s here paying her rent while accusing him is a conflict of interest." (05:46)
• Reshaan McDonald: "The prosecution does not have the full jury with them." (25:45)

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This comprehensive analysis by Amy, T.J., and Aubrey offers listeners an in-depth understanding of the complexities surrounding the Diddy trial, highlighting the challenges faced by both the prosecution and the defense. The contrasting testimonies, legal intricacies, and potential jury biases present a multifaceted case that continues to unfold with significant national interest.

Transcript

[Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Justin]

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[Reshaan McDonald]

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[Carrie]

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[Host]

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[Reshaan McDonald]

Get that report to me by lunch, okay? It's Carrie, ma' am. Just get it done. Terry.

[Carrie]

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[Reshaan McDonald]

Time offers Amy and TJ presents Aubrey.

[Justin Richmond]

O' Day covering the Diddy trial.

[Reshaan McDonald]

What's up, everyone? This is Aubry o' Day. And this is tj And Amy presents me, Aubry o' Day covering the Diddy trial. I am back with Emily Simpson. I am so excited to be talking to her again because we are just a gag girl. Me and you get together and we just start unloading on everyone.

[Host]

Yeah, we are. We're not your typical reality stars, are we?

[Reshaan McDonald]

Or maybe we are.

[Host]

Or maybe we are.

[Reshaan McDonald]

We're definitely two. We're definitely a duo. Not to be messed with. So let me do a little recap of Jane just because she was on the stand for a good amount of time last week and I did one episode that was really trying to find as much compassion and grace in my heart as I could for her being a victim. But I also was able to parallel that with. It seems like she somehow learned along the way how to manipulate people in order to get what she wants wanted out of situations as well. And that's a complicated thing to. It's a complicated, layered situation to enter into. She just kept on going down that train though, didn't she? And it got worse and worse for me. One thing I want to say, who gets on a stand for the prosecution and has not only just their home and their lifestyle but their attorney, me, paid for by the man that they are there to sit and call their abuser and the perpetrator and the person that should be going to jail for crimes. Can you explain that to me? Because I haven't heard anything that makes any of that make sense.

[Host]

No, honestly, I found that part to be shocking and I question the prosecution's desire to have her as a witness that part because here's the way I looked at it.

[Reshaan McDonald]

It's giving eight pack of women. Like Mark said in a real way, girl, it's giving eight pack of women.

[Host]

This woman testified for over 24 hours total over a six day time period. I felt as if when you had Cassie testify first, it was very profound and I think were enthralled by it and I think were captivated as to the level of coercion and violence. And I think when you lead with that but then you end your case with someone like Jane, it doesn't work for the prosecution. I was siding with the defense on this one because I kept, I kept looking at it like you were trying.

[Reshaan McDonald]

But you couldn't get there.

[Host]

I was trying to get there, but you know, there were so many things that stood out to me, and one of those was shocking. The fact that he still continues to pay for her attorney and he continues to pay for her rent. And she's sitting on the stand saying that, you know, he coerced her into these situations. And I have a hard time finding that or believing that. And I hate to say that because I'm a woman's woman.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Me too. I had the same exact. Literally called it the Jane Doe dilemma because it's a very hard thing. Let me tell you what. As someone from the inside, some bits and pieces that I heard of from people inside the courtroom, and also because I know them so well, this was the first witness where Diddy was fidgeting a lot. It was giving. I came here for you, but you tortured me, so I'm gonna let you sweat a little bit. She gave. She was giving. Cute and mild. She was giving, you know, a lot of details that were horrific and things like that in the very beginning. And then she. She had him squirming. He was fidgeting. And then she flipped. And then she flipped by the end, and she gave it. She. She completely flipped on the feds. To me, it was giving. Having to relive some of the horrific things that he did and some things that she willingly asked for. A lot of them was a lot more asking was going on with this one.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Reshaan McDonald]

A lot more jealousy. A lot more. Let me find the levels to which I could compete with the others. It was giving. I'm aware that there's a come up here. I have seen others come up. She saw Paul move on up. She saw young Miami move on up. She saw that you can move up in ranks and power. And I think all of the testimony that spoke to that really confused people. And I think that she did a really good job in making him squirm and. No. Seen anything like this before.

[Host]

No. I thought it was shocking that he actually. That he pays for her attorney. I mean, to me, that's a conflict of interest that you're sitting on the stand and you're supposed to be a witness for the prosecution and don't put.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Her on the stand. Prosecution? What are they doing? Is the paycheck that low at the ausa? What's going on?

[Host]

I mean, I felt like prosecute. The prosecution would have better off just not calling her as a witness, period. At all.

[Reshaan McDonald]

We were fine.

[Host]

She didn't. And I also feel. And maybe I don't know how you feel about this, but I think when. When Cassie testified, everything was so shocking and that's what was stuck in the juror or's minds.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Yes.

[Host]

You desensitize everything that's going on when you continue to talk about it. And it gets less and less and less. And then it gets to the point where it's, it's almost. It looks as if it's a pattern of behavior, but these women are willingly going along with it because that's what Jane looks like. And then I just like her testimony takes away from Cassie's testimony because diluted it. You've talked about it repetitively.

[Reshaan McDonald]

You've talked about being in competition with her. Gina Young, Miami. Now we got a whole slew of girls at the jury hasn't even met or heard from. Now we just hear there's a bunch of girls that are cat fighting over this man. I mean, she literally took Cassie's power from her a bit in, in respect to this trial and what has been established so far, super disappointing. The fact that she is tied to potentially somebody that you know, she has made comments that there were issues with her baby's father and Puff. That combination right there is super sus to me. And all of the levels in between are super su.

[Host]

Let me ask you a question. When she had referenced to the father of her child, I read somewhere and I don't know this if this is true. Maybe you know this. Is he a well known rapper or someone in the music industry as well?

[Reshaan McDonald]

I read that somewhere very well.

[Host]

Okay, so this is my takeaway from that. She has a child with someone who is a well known rapper in the music industry. Then she's with Diddy and she's involved with him for these four years or however long it is. Then there's also the story about where she went on a private jet to Vegas with this other well known rapper who I don't know who that is. I can make.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Well, did you see who happened to walk into court?

[Host]

Right. Kanye showed up to court.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Sure did.

[Host]

I know there's a lot of speculation.

[Reshaan McDonald]

And he's been very pro. Diddy. Free Diddy. Let me jump in front of all this before it hits me next type of Free Diddy, potentially. Allegedly.

[Host]

Right. So let me ask you a question because this was my takeaway as someone who's not in the music industry. I looked at it as if Jane was someone who is putting herself into these situations, overtly putting herself into a situation where she's dating this rapper, she has a child with them, then she's with Diddy, then she's going on a private jet with this other rapper and they're doing a freak off in a hotel. And I understand that she wasn't a participant. However, she watched. And it's hard for me to feel sorry for someone and feel like someone is a victim when they are putting themselves in this situation.

[Reshaan McDonald]

It was hard for me to feel sorry when Cassie's lawsuit dropped and she was still with him. Then gave him her price, then, then did more freak offs than the Cassie video of her getting beat dropped and she still stayed with him. And she even looked over different takes that he did of his apology video and let him know that she didn't feel the one she saw was sincere enough. She lost me when she was on her way to New York with her. Her stripper heels and the pink cocaine or whatever in her. In her carry on heading to New York to the same hotel that he gets arrested in that night where he was supposed to have a freak off. She has all the way lost me. The, the, the lawsuit should have showed her. She said she felt like she was reading a tell all book. Well, if you read the tell all book girl then, right, this is the point where you take your power. And she talks about working with the criminal defense team the entire time up until the very end when she's deciding to get her power back. But get what power back? Because your bills are still being paid by the man sitting in front of you on trial. You didn't get any of your. You could have take some of those OnlyFans coins and gotten yourself an apartment that costs less than $10,000 a month. I think she took that stand because Diddy, from what I knew from the very beginning in a lot of these documentaries is there were potential plants potted everywhere. Plants, plants, plants. Look left, look right there. Right in front of you is what I was told. I think that her testimony did some major damage to the prosecution. And it makes me wonder if she decided to take that stand for the prosecution.

[Host]

I mean, I think she did what the expectation was of the prosecution, which was she answered the question. She talked about how she said, you know, I didn't want to do it. And they show texts of her saying, I'm not an animal, I'm not a robot, I'm not a porn star.

[Reshaan McDonald]

That's not criminal.

[Host]

Right. And the defense comes back on. On cross and they should have her read text after text after text where she's saying things like, thank you for setting it up. I really enjoyed it. I had a great time.

[Reshaan McDonald]

And then there's all star parties shot Kobe Michael.

[Host]

So I'm still in shock that the prosecution thought that that was the way to go.

[Reshaan McDonald]

I'm in shock with a few moves that they've made so far. You know, we. We went wrong with. With Dawn Richard being very inconsistent on the stand and within your own depositions, you could have found those inconsistencies, yet you still chose to do it. We had an issue with Bona. What was Bona's name? Bona. Her. Was it her nickname?

[Host]

I know that, yeah. I was going to ask you your opinion.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Brianna, I believe, dangling off the balcony. But you're much taller. The weight differences, the fact that he wasn't there when she said it occurred, the fact that she had spoken with Cassie and that maybe stories had been, you know, discussed and potentially collaborated on prior to dropping a civil lawsuit, which she does have a lot of these things they've been able to poke some serious holes in. So then. So then now. I mean, I was literally all week just like. I just didn't even want to look, because for what I believe to be true and for what I believe they still have, and I want to get into that with you because taking emotion out of it and getting back to the law, I want the law to speak over everything else. But that was a messy mess, mess, mess. I felt like I was in a garden of plants all over. I was in the motherfucking secret garden of plant life. And I don't. I. I wish I could understand why the prosecution felt that that was necessary and at least made us understand. Maybe we're gonna understand it once they bring the person on this week that's gonna sum it all up for everybody and break it down, but let's try to do a little of that ourselves. So basically, everybody's kind of. Oh, one more thing I wanted to ask you. What is with the hugging of Tenny when she gets off.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Reshaan McDonald]

You know, it was giving, like, Amber heard theatric, by the way. You know, I. I support all victims. But what was that?

[Host]

I. I thought that was strange, too, because, first of all, I mean, we do know that she worked with the defense for weeks and weeks before she switched over to the prosecution. So she clearly. Clearly had a rapport with Tenney. And I know they got into it on the stand a little over the Bottega bag and how much, you know, her. Her bodies were. She got snappy with her.

[Reshaan McDonald]

She got. The jurors were eating it up, and the jurors were eating up Tenny. Not. Not Jane Doe.

[Host]

Right. And so I think at the end, I think that hug with prosecution, but then the hug with Tenny just goes to show you that she has a rapport with the defense and that, you know, she has a rapport with Tenney. And I don't know how the jurors can see that and look at that and think that she's a credible witness. To me it just looks like she's playing both sides. And then when the defense came on and they cross examined her, it was, I thought it was, was pretty clear to show to me it looks like a complicated relationship with Sean Combs where she got jealous of other women. Yes, she got jealous. That's when she sent text messages that was like, I don't want to do this. But she was fine doing it until there were other women that were involved. When he went to what Turks and.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Kentucky Cassie didn't have, we didn't see, we didn't see outs, a ton of outs for Cassie. When Cassie tried to get out, she was drop kicked in her gut. She had people come to her house and 50 messages on her phone in one minute. Why wasn't she picking up? He was not giving her that type of energy. I wasn't seeing that she didn't have when Homeland security came and spoke with her. Certainly if an officer is in front of you, you can say, please help me, please help me, please. Nothing.

[Host]

Yeah, she's like, no, I still have to get my rent paid.

[Justin]

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[Justin Richmond]

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[Carrie]

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[Host]

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[Reshaan McDonald]

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[Host]

Right?

[Reshaan McDonald]

Drug trafficking, Brendan, kidnapping, Capricorn, sex trafficking, Cassie, Jane. I think that that charge is going to get thrown out. I don't think they're going to be able to reach it with Jane. Bribery. Eddie Garcia, who had the hotel video fraud, which is just basically deception. Everybody, all the sex workers, everybody involved. Extortion. Cassie's extorted her for that 20 grand, made her take a loan out on her house. Witnessed tampering. I mean shit, he didn't even make bond because he was witnessed tampering. And they found a money trail to a girl that was asked to do an interview and say all these people wanted it and that their takes are wrong. Interstate transportation, all the escorts. We have established rico. Now is the jury going to think it's rico? And these are the problems. This is a highly charged, emotional case. Very difficult to dissect legal crimes when you're in that state. We just saw it with Harvey Weinstein, that jury, it just came back last week. One convicted, one acquittal. And by the third one the judge had made them go back so many times and finally they were like, look, we're sending each other death threats at this point. We do not fuck with each other. It is a no for us. We are not going back into that room and doing it to finally where the judge had to just say no verdict, mistrial. It's a split verdict is basically what something like that is called. And I believe that that's what's going to happen here. I think, I think we have two transportation charges proved, done and over. I think Diddy knows that as well. I believe that we have sex trafficking with Cassie. I Don't know about sex trafficking with Jane. Good luck with her and all of her potted plants. I think that we have then left this idea of does he get rico? And RICO is what we just established. And there's way more than 2 within that 10 year period. And I also was paying attention to the times, eras that they're utilizing. They're utilizing six years of his behavior. That means they got a whole extra four. That means things could come. That means somebody like KK who we're not seeing during this trial, but a lot of people are sure giving her the title of co conspirator drock potentially. There's a lot of chatter about him and others being co conspirators. They may not show up here, but could there be cases later on? We have, it's a 10 year period and the prosecution, the feds have only investigated six within this.

[Host]

Yeah. And you've got Kid Cudi and the burglary and the arson.

[Reshaan McDonald]

The burglary, the arson. Yeah. Those are also added on to all of that. But with the jury, here's now where, where we have a hard time because it's like watching a sports game is an analogy. You really love your team so much. You got matching head to toe, whatever on game day and they just keep fumbling and you keep yelling at the refs. That's not the right call. You are not going to believe that your team is not winning this. Now can, can we get everybody to take their pride off of, of their, their favorite team and be able to say hey, he's guilty or he lost or we lost. And in a highly charged emotional case, that is a very difficult thing to do. Harvey Weinstein's case just proved it. There's a juror number six. He's been replaced. They called it today. But they got rid of somebody they felt would be horrible for them. Probably deep down who knows that that will ever be admitted. But a few more that are going to be a little horrible for them because when Tenney was up there with, with Jane Doe, a lot of the my reports of people that had eyes on they were like juror 6 wasn't even really giving the back and forth, but they said people were watching it like a reality TV show. And every time Tenney went in and made that point, they were like, yes. Like they're facially showing their feelings.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Reshaan McDonald]

And there's more than just one. There's a few.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Reshaan McDonald]

So. So maybe you know what, that's also.

[Host]

Indicative if they're that enthralled with that. That exchange between Tenny and with Jane and during that section, when the. When the defense is on cross with her, that means that they're really captivated by what she's pulling out of her. And the fact that she's pulling out, that she's getting these expensive purses, that she's, you know, there's vacations, that there's, you know, parties and all these things, that means that they're really. They're really paying attention to that. And again, it goes back to the part where she's trying to establish. Where the prosecution is trying to establish that she's being coerced into this. I feel like paying as much interest in that anymore.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Well, not with her. Let's hope that when they get into. What is it called, when they all meet together for the first time. Is there a legal term for that?

[Host]

Oh, let's.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Let's. Let's. When they get to the family barbecue and everybody starts up, let's hope. Yeah, let's hope that they have the discernment to understand that Cassie is one charge and Jane Doe is another. And let's not punish Cassie for Jane Doe's secret garden. And so I think maybe he gets one sex. I think. I don't know that she could wash away how effective Cassie was. But we need the. We need Cassie's reminders back quickly. They need to go back to her pictures, her footage and her life, and they need to get as far away from Jane Doe as they possibly can. I think most people should, because that doesn't. She seems to be really willing to do what's best for her at most times and also be a victim.

[Host]

Is she not getting child support if her. If her baby daddy?

[Reshaan McDonald]

That's what I. When. When everybody started clowning her, including, you know, potentially her people that are interconnected with her, I kind of thought to myself, what's the clown, though? Because if you don't have enough money to keep your baby under a crib that's safe and. And. And create a healthy environment for your family, what's the clown? Because she had to go off doing all kinds of craziness in order to allegedly protect her and her child and put a house, put a roof over their head, however that could be her theatrics, because it seems like she really was in touch with the lifestyle and in touch with the scene. And, you know, rumors on the streets suggest all of that, so. And then some.

[Host]

Well, I have a hard time believing that if your baby daddy is someone.

[Reshaan McDonald]

As big, wealthy men get Away from having to pay women really high levels of child support all the time. It just depends on how good of the lawyers you have and how unlawyered and pedigreed the girl is.

[Host]

I can't imagine paying enough child support to be able to pay rent somewhere on your own.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Yeah, I mean, listen, she wanted the $10,000 place versus like the, you know, 1500 with some government assistant. You have a child like, you could get by on a lot less. It's that she didn't want to. And that's where they're. They're really just not getting forcing coercion out of it for me. And I think for. If. If we' most of the women, we definitely have lost the men.

[Host]

Oh, absolutely.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Yeah. So I think that, that that count's going to go bye bye. But you never know. The biggest thing is the jury and where they're going to go with it. But I do feel that. I do feel it was also pretty. I think the defense has done a solid job at poking holes in many people. What we're going to have to see now is can the prosecution do the same? And then also, who does Diddy have? Taking the stand for him is the million dollar question. I know one person that's taking the stand for him There is the obvious suspects, which would be family and children because they're in court. I don't know how that's going to speak to anything relevant criminally by making him sound like a good guy and certainly hope none of his kids understood the criminal enterprise aspect of any of it. The one thing, though, that I do think is interesting is Rico suggests that you're at the top and. And it can be an individual or individuals. It doesn't have to be individuals. It doesn't have to be plural like they used to use in the mob worlds. It can be just an individual. But I don't know. I could argue who's the person above Diddy? Who's the person above that person? Who's the person above that person? Do you really think it stops at Diddy? There's an ent. When I interviewed Suge Knight recently, he went all the way up the trail, all the way back to where hip hop first started. In the room that they sat in and decided whether or not they were going to keep hip hop for themselves in the community and create generational wealth, or whether they were going to allow it to be in the hands of the industry side of music, which means that at the very end of the day, everyone's checks get lower and lower until you get to the very bottom, which is always the artist who gets nothing, usually.

[Host]

Wasn't Suge. He was a supporter of Diddy at first, wasn't he? He came out and spoke and said that he didn't think he should be convicted and he shouldn't go to prison.

[Reshaan McDonald]

So they take these sound bites, per usual. But. But from what I gathered, it's street code that you don't ever want your people to go to prison. You don't ever wish that on your enemies in the streets. He. He's. He. He follows street rules and street code. That's how he was raised. And he feels that no matter if he likes you or doesn't like you, the street code is. Is you do your best to defend and not wish anyone in the streets, any of your people to be put in prison. So he honors that code. Does he think what he was doing was wrong? Yeah, but he also thinks he learned it from people above him. He made a strong suggestion to me in our interview about where do you think he's like, I am around the same age I grew up, and they were all friends. They were very close, those founders, those people. Very beginning of hip hop, when it started to become more mainstream. He's like, do you think we sat around and just one day thought, like, I really want to see four, you know, potentially gay escorts or bi escorts just pissing my girlfriend's mouth until she chokes and then fuck her right after? Like, we weren't. That wasn't an idea that floated around in our heads. You learned that from somewhere. You learn it from somewhere.

[Host]

Well, and the fact that I always thought. And the fact that everything. It seems so premeditated that everything was recorded and kept and kept categorically or.

[Reshaan McDonald]

However well it was by Diddy, but Cassie or Jane Doe. By Diddy.

[Host]

So then to me, I don't know if I always felt that Diddy had the foresight to do something like that. It always felt to me like there was a higher power that said, why don't you. Let's do this and keep this and use this, you know?

[Reshaan McDonald]

Sure. You know what? I haven't heard anyone say that, but that's actually a great theory. And other theories have been floated. I mean, TJ asked me the other day. He said that the. One of the psychological definitions behind being a cuckold is that you want to experiment or have an attraction more for male body parts and experiences with men, but you potentially are in a position or a status that you. You can't explore those desires and so you have your partner do it and so you can experience it for yourself almost that videos would allow somebody to do that. You know, I don't see a lot of text messages about, you know, excuse my language, but let me see your pussy. How wet is it? I want to eat your pussy. Let me see your pussy lips. It's all, what's the dicks? Where are the dicks at? What do the dicks look like? We're having sex. This is fun, but I'm a little bored. Let's call somebody and have put his dick so we can cast it onto the ceiling. It's a lot of dicks.

[Host]

It's a lot of. Yeah, you know, when the first, when it first came out with the sex trafficking charges, I pictured women and then as everything's been revealed, it's men, sex workers.

[Justin]

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[Carrie]

At California Psychics, we know some people can't read the career warning signs like your boss still not knowing your name.

[Reshaan McDonald]

You, Tina, Lisa, Sheila, whatever. Get that report to me by lunch, okay? It's Carrie, ma' am. Just get it done, Terry.

[Carrie]

So talk to California psychics and receive the career guidance you need. We only connect you with the very best, so guarantee if your reading isn't live, check changing it's free. California psychics call 1-800-PREDICT today and get 20 minutes for just $20.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Clorox Sentiva smells like grapefruit, cleans like Clorox and feels like y. Okay, we could be here all day.

[Justin]

Try Clorox Scentiva for a trusted clean.

[Reshaan McDonald]

With long lasting freshness. Also available in lavender and coconut. News as directed. I asked Suge, could you be a black man in the 90s, becoming a hip hop mogul of this genre, running the streets, be taken seriously by the streets, which. Which the culture of hip hop was born in the streets. Streets. To bring that genre forward, to be the leaders of that movement. Could you also be gay? The answer is no.

[Host]

No.

[Reshaan McDonald]

So I think you live a lifestyle where you're suppressing potentially feelings that you. We know that he likes seeing dicks. It's been said 5 million different ways at this point on the stand, allegedly. So. So that being said and established, it's like, you know, can you like dicks in that position? No. Did his position only get higher and higher, bigger and bigger, more and more money? Yes. So then you suppress more, which is where drugs become very handy because you don't have to think about all the ways you're suppressing, which hurts your ins. It hurts you inside. And then I think that's when the drugs can get to a point where they're so out of control. And then I don't know where it goes from there. I don't know how credible any of the 80 civil suits are. We're going to have to break it down one by one.

[Host]

Yeah, there was this. A recent one. Did you see the recent one? I think it was filed yesterday.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Tell me.

[Host]

A new lawsuit by Chelsea Loveless. It mirrors Cassie Ventura's accusations Almost identically.

[Reshaan McDonald]

So freak offs with men.

[Host]

Yeah, I haven't read it. I just read an article that, it was just filed, you know, and here's my question, by the way.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Do you notice how all the Jane does say he wanted to see the dicks? Even, even in messages with, with Jane Doe she says all you care about are dicks. I'm not going to be here for your dick parties. Like pussy is has not even been mentioned in this trial. Not one.

[Host]

Well, he clearly has a preference. The question is, are his preferences to the level of criminal activity or does he just have weird sexual proclivities? And that's what jury has to decide.

[Reshaan McDonald]

The jury doesn't have to decide it because at the end of the day they have drug trafficking from Brendan, kidnapping from Capricorn, arson from Kid Cudi, sex trafficking from Cassie, bribery from Eddie Garcia, fraud by everybody, extortion by Cassie's mom, witnessed tampering in the very beginning from bail with Kalina, allegedly. And interstate transportation on all the escorts. They have plenty and plenty of way more than two within a six year period, not a 10.

[Host]

Right.

[Reshaan McDonald]

And I just don't, I mean unless in some world these, this testimony that we're hearing is not within this period of time, which I don't think the prosecution would make that mistake. But Lord, I didn't see a lot of the things the prosecution chose to do as, as the best of choices. So I don't know.

[Host]

I think the prosecution made a mistake when we were talking about was her name Brianna? Whoever was held over the balcony, what was her name? Were they. I mean someone didn't do due diligence on that where it came back that where she was showing the photos of the next day saying these are the bruises I got from being dangled over a balcony by Diddy. And then they come, you know, the defense has the receipts that he was actually, you know, touring with the, you know, know.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Which by the way, victims, victims get times and dates wrong all the time. But you should have figured that out prior to putting her on the stand and had her say, I don't know, I thought I recollected it here, but I'm realizing it could have been at these other times too. I'm a drug addict, so I'm bad with timing. I mean that's what she acknowledges herself to be. But for me, I'm a drug addict and I was there to supply the drugs and get everyone high. Can't trust it. Sorry, Jane. I just loved every moment of climbing my rise to the Top of being number one escort in the sex proclivities. I can't trust it. Sorry. Like, who was the other one? Dawn and her misstating one story seven different ways. Sorry. There's, there's, there's a, there's some that weren't strong choices. And this is the Southern district. This is a 95% conviction rate. I didn't think I would even see a snafu.

[Host]

Right.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Do you usually see this many? When I saw Mark Garagos be able to say they got an eight pack of white women, that really was a lot. I was just thinking to myself, with everything that we all as a society have learned even since OJ and watching the lawyers brag about how they manipulated the time and the place right after Rodney King, et cetera. Like, like why is it that, that you would even not choose to operate with that, with the, with the visual impressions that are so strong on a jury inside court? I mean, I don't know. Some of it just. I don't, I don't know. Some of it is concerning. However, I do think they have proven all the charges except that second. Second sex trafficking. Now let me ask you. Sex trafficking. There were two counts. I don't think that they specifically said who the two counts were. Are they suggesting it's Cassie and Jane or are they just saying pick any of them?

[Host]

You know, I don't know. That's a good question because I'm not sure because I don't think it is specific. I think it's just two counts. And what are the two counts? I mean, we can definitely say Cassie.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Yes.

[Host]

I wouldn't say it was Jane at all. To me she just seems like a jealous girl.

[Reshaan McDonald]

It could be me. It could be me.

[Host]

Yeah. And there was Mia, which Mia, like you said before when we, when we had a discussion prior, you thought Mia was a little game changing because she wasn't a girlfriend. She was someone who was an assistant that was, that was, you know, submitted to violence and all this. And rape. There was rape. Forgot about that one on your list too.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Rape on Cassie too. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. So, you know, I guess the, the issue is at the end, once the defense puts on their kids case and obviously they're going to have a lot of character witnesses and they're going to play to the jury's heart. Right? Because obviously if his children or his mom or, you know, anyone related to him is going to testify, they're going to do so in a way where he's a great dad, he's involved in Our lives.

[Reshaan McDonald]

No way KK testifies for him. Right. Obviously the prosecution didn't get KK If KK is off in the sunset somewhere, she could still be charged with being a co conspirator next. Correct. Why do they charge them back? Because I remember Jeffrey and Ghislaine. Didn't Ghisain come only a couple months after Jeffrey with her charges?

[Host]

I believe so, but I don't know a lot about that case. But I think he was charged first and then she was charged later.

[Reshaan McDonald]

So it's possible that they're. That maybe they're holding out and not don't want to give her immunity because they got too much on her. I don't know. I've seen her name pop up in some civil suits. If they have any proof of the things that are in those civil suits, it ain't good. Yeah, but. But to not even have the bodyguard or drock. I mean, I don't know if they're just leaving space co conspirators to potentially come out after this. I do think that they don't have the full jury. Prosecution does not have the full jury with them. However, I think when they get back into. When they go back to the barbecue and everybody sits down and starts looking through the paperwork. We discussed this. You got to fill out. Do you think he forced her? Yes. Do you feel like she didn't want to do it at least in one occasion? Yeah. Yes. Do you feel like he flew her across state lines and then paid her to. To. To have sex with somebody? Yes. That means guilty.

[Host]

Right.

[Reshaan McDonald]

So I think the paperwork takes the emotion out of it. However, if someone's highly emotional, they might just say no, I don't feel that way. I don't know. But. But I don't see any way that he gets off on all of it. I think Jane muddied it it up a good amount. At least she took off one of those sex trafficking charges. Maybe convince them that Cassie might. Might be some type of not credible as well. Even at that. That's 10 on 10 per transportation charge. But with. If you get one of the sex trafficking charges thrown in, that's another 15. How does one serve that? Do they serve them consecutively? Do they. How does it work in federal prison? Prison?

[Host]

I don't know. I would assume it would be. It would be consecutively. So I don't know.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Suge thinks Diddy should get on the stand and tell the truth about the industry. He said he should have his lawyers talk to the other side's lawyers, strike up some kind of plea where, you know, he does a little bit of time, enough time to where he could handle it, because Suge doesn't feel he could handle the type of time Suge has. And then he said he should get up on that stand and tell the truth about how the industry. Industry is. What they did to him, who did it to him, and then what he went on and did to others. And that's the only way the industry will change. I would think if he were really out bad, if he had crashed out and was down really bad, that could be a maneuver. However, I feel that Jane, she. She. She did her. She was a nice plant. She bloomed and gave beautiful leaves and. And. And plant life to the world. So for me, I think that he's gonna be cocky potentially going into this. I just don't. I can't possibly see who's gonna get up on the stand and tell us. Only thing we're gonna hear is these girls were all jealous over him and they wanted to do everything. Well, where's your prayer proof? We got to see all the text messages them of them willing. Because we've already seen text messages that they weren't. We've already seen text messages that he was manipulating, forcing people, coercing people. So even if someone gets on the stand and says, my daddy's great, he loves me, he's never forced or coerced me, and what does that have to do with the. He has to other people?

[Host]

Yeah, I, you know, I think what's. What happens is they're just going to play to the jury's hearts. And does the jury want to send this man away way to prison for life who has children? And so they're going to focus on that.

[Reshaan McDonald]

They're going to focus on the sentencing because they know he's getting something right.

[Host]

And I think they're just going to try to play to the jury's heartstrings, like, do you want to send this man away that has all these children that he's responsible for? Look how close he is to his children. They're here every day supporting him. His mom's here. You know, he's close with his mom. They're going to try to humanize him because what the prosecution has done is try to dehumanize him. Right? Like, you can put this man away because he's just an evil man. He has no, you know, he. He has nothing. There's nothing good about him. You can put him in jail for as long as you want, and then the Defense is going to try to humanize him. You know, he's a dad, he's a son, he has children, they care about him.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Where's that. Where's the defending the crimes going to come in? Is there any way to defend these?

[Host]

I mean, they've been doing that on cross, obviously, but then it's like, you know, who is the defense going to put on as their case in chief? And that's. That's what's interesting. Like, besides character witnesses of family and.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Children, maybe him telling people he loves swinging, but I don't even see the swinging label that they gave him, because swinging requires you to have been in it. Swinging means everybody swinging. Everybody's in it. Everybody's swinging. He was sitting in the corner videotaping and jacking off. That's cuckolding. That's different than swinging.

[Host]

Yeah. When they, when they try to make it like it's a. Like a lifestyle. Like, just like a swinging lifestyle.

[Reshaan McDonald]

That's not what that is.

[Host]

That's not like a swinging lifestyle. When I think swinging lifestyle, I think all these, you know, like bored couples in Orange County.

[Reshaan McDonald]

I. I know married. I have tons of friends that swing. Yeah, I have tons of friends who swing. It's not even a. It's not even the consent part. It's just. This is not what we're seeing in all of this case is not swinging. It's him in the corner jacking off, instructing. It's co. It's cuckoo. Holding.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, I mean, the question comes down to. And here's the thing. I think that there's both. When you're talking about someone like Jane, the question is if it's sex trafficking. The question, the legal question is, was she coerced or was it consensual? And the problem with her testimony is you can go back and forth.

[Reshaan McDonald]

You can. With Cassie's also. And that's. They might not get either of the sex trafficking ones. I don't know.

[Host]

Because if you're sitting there as a juror and you go back and forth and you go, oh, that sounds bad. That's. That's pretty violent. I can see why she did it. And then they can just pull up another text where it's like, she's a willing participant and she's going along with.

[Reshaan McDonald]

It, planning it, planning it, coming up.

[Host]

With it, coming up with it, traveling, picking out escorts, saying, I don't like this one.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Taking a different one, asking for prices. She asked for 150 per year, 450 for the three years she served. And her two years of her payment on her house, she put a price on it. The second she did that, she. I was gone. I was out on her.

[Host]

She.

[Reshaan McDonald]

She had me out. I just, you know, one thing Shug said, and I wanted to ask you about this, I was asking, is this an overall systematic thing? Like the system has decided it's so. Because like I said, where do you stop at RICO in the music industry? There's somebody above Puff, there's somebody above that, and there's somebody above that. They're answering to many people up. And I said to, I said to him, like, what, what does it look like to you? And he's like, well, let me just say this. The one thing that has been talked about this entire trial, the one thing that none of this could have happened without, the one thing that made every single part of the behavior and every single person on the stand has said it is drugs. But yet there's not one drug charge. Yeah, that had me a little like, I need to talk to a lawyer about this because I'm either missing something or that's a little sus.

[Host]

Unless they're just trying to fit the drug trafficking into the RICO aspect.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Yeah, it could just be trying to fit it.

[Host]

So it's just convoluted in there. And as well as the drugs being the part of the coercion where it's like you can't have free agency and free will.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Yeah. Maybe including it would have lessened their ability to prove rico. But if they can't prove rico, a drug charge and multiple drug charges, because there's drug charges every time they're traveling, the drugs anywhere. That's a light. That's, that's like getting one of the mobsters on fraud, signing up, signing a piece of paper and sending it into that. Like, yeah, it's simple. It wasn't on murders, but it gave them life in prison. Like, find the little things. But I guess they felt that. But by the way, I understand why they felt the RICO was strong. Every single thing we just named. I literally looked up the list. There was only two that had nothing to do with this case. Something with my minors has nothing to do with this case. And then something else. But other than that, there's way more than 2. It's within that 10 year period of time. If you're following the law, RICO is there. And it's pretty. It's there strongly. It's not there. Like maybe, I don't know, it's there. If anything, RICO speaks to all the disgusting Behavior that we've heard, it's not just disgusting behavior. It's divorce, coercion, bribery, kidnapping, trafficking, fraud, extortion, witness tampering. Those things were, like, happening all the time. Those are the most consistent things. Now, sex trafficking, we got a. The girls had days where they wanted it and didn't. And I don't know if that's gonna hurt us or not.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Reshaan McDonald]

But. But to. To wrap this up, because I just always love revisiting last time, we thought it was a go on all. All counts. Now, since we know Jane Doe, you know, ran through the Secret Garden, what are we thinking now on the two transportation charges? Are they still there?

[Host]

You know, my gut says no, because I really feel like her testimony, just.

[Reshaan McDonald]

The transport, not sex trafficking, to transport charges. I'm going. I'm going to give you all five. Two transports.

[Host]

The transport charges, yes.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Okay.

[Host]

No charges yet. The racketeering, conspiracy, yes. Sex trafficking, I have a hard time with.

[Reshaan McDonald]

On both of them or just. Yeah, on both.

[Host]

Because I feel. I feel like Jane's testimony, Weekend Cassie's took away from Cassie's. And I feel like the jury, what they can do is kind of lump the two together because a lot of their stories mirrored each other. And then you lump them into just two. Two women that wanted to rise up, that wanted to get what they could, that got money from him, that got their rents paid, that got luxury items. They wanted to be a part of that world.

[Reshaan McDonald]

I'll tell you one difference. Cassie didn't look at Diddy once when she said she reclaimed her truth. Cassie never wavered like that. And she didn't go and hug anybody. And she was clear. She didn't say, I wish him the best. She said, this is what he did to me. I'm reclaiming myself and my life back. Deuces. I could, if I'm in the jury, I could see the difference between her and the other girl, but I could. I could see how men. Men would have a harder time than maybe women could of dissecting the energy of women.

[Host]

And the problem is the order that they put them on. You put Cassie on first, and then clearly you want to put Cassie on first because she's the. She's profound and it's.

[Reshaan McDonald]

It's.

[Host]

It's heart wrenching.

[Reshaan McDonald]

There's plenty of reputation, by the way. Reputation's a reputation. I've got plenty, too. I mean, like, it doesn't mean all of it's true, but I saw these drastic shifts in her personality and the fact that she's the only one that had Diddy fitted. Fidgeting. He fidgets when he knows that something was supposed to go a certain way. And the is up and now he's getting a little fidgety.

[Host]

Right.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Okay, so we're, we're. You're on. You're a no. You're a potential no on both touch trafficking. I'm praying that they can see through it and give one. What about rico? Final question.

[Host]

Well, you know, I feel like there can't. I feel like there's definitely rico. When you think of it from a legal perspective, here's what the prosecution needs to do in their closing statement. They have to really, really make it clear and concise and break it down for the jury. So that's the last thing they hear and that's the last thing in their mind and they need to get it right. Just like the way you listed it and the way you broke it down, that's what the jury needs to hear. Because everything's been so convoluted with all these different testimony and all these different people coming up and you start to, you start to break away from RICO and you start to just start to think that it's just a relationship and he's just. With a lot of women and he's a rap star and that's lifestyle.

[Reshaan McDonald]

And Diddy's got great lawyers and they're going to do a really good job at closing, but they are going to get to rebut that. And in their rebuttal is when they need to do exactly what you just said, what I just said with the, with here the points of rico. Here is exactly every testimony that proved each one of those things. Thank you, Goodness night.

[Host]

Exactly.

[Reshaan McDonald]

So let's see what happens. We're going into Diddy week. I think they have one more person on the stand today that's going, oh, they have Brendan Paul. And then we're going into, I think someone who's going to basically give a legal analysis of what's been proven thus far. What are those people called?

[Host]

I don't know.

[Reshaan McDonald]

They have some job, but somebody that's basically going to break it down for the jury like what we just did right now. This is what you've seen, this is what we've proved. And then we go to Diddy and we're going to have to see, see if he can give us anybody compelling that. I don't need to hear any character witnesses. I don't need to hear about on the days where he's nice and good. I don't care about that. That's not what we're here to discuss. I want to hear people say that these crimes didn't happen. And I want to see proof as to how people are lying.

[Host]

Yeah, well, we'll see. We'll follow.

[Reshaan McDonald]

I'll see you again. I miss you so much. Let's have a real barbecue. Instead of the jury barbecue, we need.

[Host]

A real family barbecue.

[Reshaan McDonald]

I know, right? We'll do it soon. Okay, my love? Okay. It was good seeing you. You look beautiful. You too. All right.

[Host]

Bye.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Bye, babe.

[Carrie]

At California Psychics, we know that sometimes you can wake up thinking.

[Host]

I don't know if I'm in the right career.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Ew or the right relationship relationship.

[Carrie]

But whatever your life dilemma, at California Psychics, we'll give you the guidance you need to feel certain about your life choices. And because we only connect you with the very best, we guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free. California psychics. Visit CaliforniaPsychics. Visit CaliforniaPsychics.com today for limited time offers.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Clorox and Tiva. Smells like grapefruit, cleans like Clorox, and feels like yay. Okay, we could be here all day.

[Justin]

Try Clorox Scentiva for a trusted clean.

[Reshaan McDonald]

With long lasting freshness. Also available in lavender and coconut. News as directed.

[Justin Richmond]

This is Justin Richmond from Broken Record. Are you the kind of person who sets standards for themselves? Like, personally, I told myself if the Lakers lose their do or die game five, I wouldn't let it impact my mood at home with family. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feelings and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer.

[Reshaan McDonald]

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[Unknown]

Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance and keep an eye on what your kids are spending spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight.

[Reshaan McDonald]

Get started risk [e-mail] iheart this is an iheart podcast.