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- [00:00]
Stephanie Young
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Amanda Knox
Guaranteed Human Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP once it works for
- [00:09]
Stephanie Young
members like I'm Hailey and I've lost 100 pounds. Weight Watchers has everything I need from weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects.
- [00:18]
Amanda Knox
It's all in one place. Weight Watchers handles the insurance for you and offers affordable cash pay options. With our program, our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effects support.
- [00:29]
Clayton Eckhardt
I'm Mike and I've lost 135 pound Weight Watchers prescribing GLP1 medications. It's been life changing.
- [00:35]
Stephanie Young
I'm Sharia and I lost 80 pounds on Weight Watchers. I realized that it would take more than a prescription to lose weight and feel good on a GLP1.
- [00:44]
Amanda Knox
Better results, expert support, lose more weight, make it last.
- [00:49]
Clayton Eckhardt
I can't imagine doing a GLP1 without Weight Watchers.
- [00:52]
Amanda Knox
Get started for as low as $25@weightwatchers.com GLP1 for over 60 years, we've helped millions of members find what works for now it's your turn. Weight watchers. Watch it work.
- [01:05]
Menelik Lumumba
1969. Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move.
- [01:12]
Hans Charles
These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the board of trustees, including Martin Luther King Sr. It's the true story of protest and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles.
- [01:27]
Menelik Lumumba
I'm Menelik Lumumba.
- [01:28]
Hans Charles
Listen to the A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:35]
Amanda Knox
I'm Amanda Knox. And in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?
- [01:47]
Stephanie Young
Evidence has been made sufficient.
- [01:49]
Clayton Eckhardt
The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.
- [01:51]
Amanda Knox
What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?
- [01:55]
Stephanie Young
Oh my God. I think she might be innocent.
- [01:57]
Amanda Knox
Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever your podcasts.
- [02:05]
Clayton Eckhardt
This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
- [02:09]
Special Agent Riegel
In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.
- [02:19]
Sixth Bureau Narrator
The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
- [02:28]
Special Agent Riegel
Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:41]
Hans Charles
Amy Robach and T.J. holmes present killer
- [02:44]
Amanda Knox
Thriller with your host, Alisa Donovan.
- [02:49]
Stephanie Young
Hey, everyone. Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller. Okay, today we are really getting into a very, very nutso case, because sometimes the most dangerous stories, they are not the ones that happen in dark alle. They happen in inboxes, courtrooms, headlines. So today we are stepping into a case that played out in real time in the press, in the legal system, involving former bachelor Clayton Eckhardt. So what started as just a single simple date quickly spiraled into a paternity claim, accusations of twins, hundreds of messages and emails, court filings, and eventually felony charges. So on the surface, it looked like just another celebrity scandal, but underneath that, this is about reputation manipulation, public judgment, and what it feels like to try to prove your innocence to a world that pretty much already assumes that you're guilty. So Clayton is here to talk about surviving that storm and about his new podcast, love Owens v. Eckhardt, where you can hear all of the incredible details. Clayton, welcome to Killer Thriller.
- [04:00]
Clayton Eckhardt
Thank you for having me. I'm actually. Yeah, I'm super excited. I've. I've been on a couple other podcasts, but nothing in this realm like this genre. So I. I feel like you're gonna. You're gonna really ask all the good questions that I probably have not been asked yet.
- [04:14]
Stephanie Young
Great. Yeah. I mean, for us, this is a little bit of a. It may feel like lighter fare, but for you, it clearly is not, because this has had a massive impact on your life. So we'll definitely get into a lot of the legal things in, like, when you. My first question is, when you look back at May of 2023, did you have any sense that this was about to become your life?
- [04:43]
Clayton Eckhardt
No, not at all. I had already actually been through one false accusation. It was a cheating scandal which happened in the previous year, and I disproved that within 24 hours. Thankfully, due to location services on my iPhone, this individual claimed that I went to New York, but I never did. My phone showed that I stayed in Arizona.
- [05:03]
Stephanie Young
Amazing.
- [05:04]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah. So I was able to disprove that, but I thought that was going to be it. You know, I thought, okay, wow, false accusation. Coming off the reality television, I get that I wasn't really liked as a lead. I was controversial, so I suppose maybe this is just what happens, but I figured that'd be the extent of it. No, I did not think that I'd be in A three year paternity scandal.
- [05:24]
Stephanie Young
Right. So when you're saying like the false claim, you are speaking about Lauren Law, excuse me, Laura Owens accusing you of father murdering her twins, which if you can clarify to us, you claim that you two never even had intercourse. So what is this, like magical thinking? Like, what is the deal?
- [05:45]
Clayton Eckhardt
All right, so I mean, I don't know how much I can say, but I'm very descriptive and I had to be in order to basically plead my innocence. And so I found that, you know, the, the truth always prevails. And I've also just found that like, for me at least, honesty typically is the best policy, even though it can hurt some feelings, even though it can rub people the wrong way. So we engaged in oral sex. So she performed oral twice on me. The second time she ran to the bathroom immediately afterwards when she told me she was pregnant 11 days later, which apparently Google says you can, as early as 10 days, you can find out. I'm sure she googled it. That's why she hit me on day 11. But I thought that she potentially spit the fluid out into her hand and then either had something on her or just shoved it up via her fingers. So again, Google told me there was a small percentage chance that that could create a vial viable pregnancy if done fast enough. So that was, that was my concern was that she trapped me, which is, you know, which is the, you know, which is why the Love Trapped is the name of this podcast. There's, I don't, most people aren't aware of this term called trapping. It's very, it's, it's mostly prevalent in like a sports circle or entertainment circle, where essentially what happens is an individual latches on to somebody, I would say, against their will or without their participation in order to receive some type of benefit, whether it's financial benefit or whether it's, you know, status. And so an example of this would be it happened to a couple of my teammates back when I played college ball. They became first round draft picks, you know, and so they, everyone knew they were going to go make millions of dollars. So a woman comes into their life, they have sex. The woman says she's on birth control, she wasn't. She ends up getting pregnant and then she goes after his paycheck. That's. That happened to a few of my teammates. It's happened to many people previously in that realm. And so I had, I was aware that there were women capable of doing something like that. And so that's what I thought she was doing in my Situation. It was more for I. For career advancement. She wanted to use it because she was a mental health advocate at the time. She had her own mental health podcast. So she was looking to line me up as her next TEDx talk because she had done one on a previous victim where she claimed he physically abused her, which was a whole lie. And so she was looking to set me up as her next story, which she had even alluded to at one point.
- [08:24]
Stephanie Young
I. Wow, I feel like I have so many things to say about what you just said.
- [08:29]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, it's a lot.
- [08:30]
Stephanie Young
Not the least of which is.
- [08:31]
Clayton Eckhardt
And I'm just scratching the surface. I mean, that's the thing is there's so much.
- [08:34]
Stephanie Young
Right. Not the least of which is be careful, you know, when you go to someone who claims they're a mental health expert without really proving that to you. But I do want to say straight away, because this is so unsettling to me, that what really, really gets me about this is that she is creating this narrative that women do these things all the time. You know, and it's so frustrating because she is like an eighth of a percentile of women that do this. You know, generally speaking, we don't. Women don't. Don't do things like this. And so it's, like, infuriating to me to see that this woman has. Now, she has done this repeatedly.
- [09:19]
Amanda Knox
Right.
- [09:19]
Stephanie Young
So you come to find out that you are not the first nor the only victim of this woman.
- [09:26]
Clayton Eckhardt
Right, Correct. Yeah. And it's interesting, and I want to touch on this because it actually just came from another podcast where they brought up a. The similar concern of, you know, she's invalidating other women now. She's setting us back. And. And I understand that. I know where that's. I can see where that's coming from. You know, we want, you know, we don't want people to feel, you know, that they could potentially go into a position where it's like, if I happen to share my story, my truth, could I, you know, end up then being in a situation like this woman where now she's facing 14 years or 14 felony charges and over 50 years in prison. And so I don't want to deter any woman from, you know, coming forward and speaking their truth. And that's certainly, again, as we talk about, even in the podcast, it's not about men versus women. We don't want it to be that. And this, again, when I say that this is more prevalent trapping in the sports industry or entertainment, it's still not prevalent when you Take, you know, one or a couple of women doing this over. With the millions of women that are out there, it's certainly less than a percent of women that are doing this. Nonetheless, it does exist, but it's just. Yeah, I mean, it's a delicate subject. I don't believe this is going to deter any future victims from coming forward and speaking their truth in fear of potentially having legal action placed upon them if you. If you speak your truth. If Laura was telling the truth, she wouldn't be facing, you know, up to 50 years in prison.
- [11:00]
Stephanie Young
That's right.
- [11:01]
Clayton Eckhardt
She wouldn't have made it that far. You know, again, the county attorney wouldn't have picked up the case and decided to pursue legal action against her.
- [11:07]
Stephanie Young
That's right.
- [11:08]
Clayton Eckhardt
She was telling the truth. You know, if she had a actual viable paternity test to present and a viable child and there was a DNA test done, somebody would have come back as the father. She would have never been in this situation. I could have tried to get her for defamation if it wasn't my child. Sure. But again, you shouldn't say that. This is.
- [11:27]
Special Agent Riegel
This is the. This.
- [11:28]
Clayton Eckhardt
This man is the child, or, sorry, is the father of the children, or child. Unless, you know. So, yeah, of course, there's a risk that you could get hit with defamation if you're wrong. But I think this is where it's like, you know, don't. If it's your truth, then speak it and you'll be, you know, the truth will prevail. So that's. That's the message is. I don't think this is. I hope. I don't want it to deter other women. I don't think it discredits them. I just think it's a matter of, like, hey, if you're. I think if anything, it deters women that are thinking they may want to do this.
- [11:58]
Stephanie Young
Yes, that's what I hope. I mean, because it seems very clear she is not the victim at all.
- [12:05]
Clayton Eckhardt
I mean, it's. There's no. There is really. No, it's not for debate. I mean, it's. At this point, she's been caught in so many lies. She's been caught with medical fraud. She's been caught admitting to medical fraud. She's forged. Yeah. These documents. There's doctor appointments that she never showed up to. She's not had a single expert that's been able to, like, stand behind her. Besides one guy that claimed he was. That came into court, but he was a fraud. If you ask me, she is not. All these doctors. She Claims she saw, she never did. So all the evidence, I mean, it's, it's a pile of just evidence against her. And. Yeah, I do think, though, that the county attorney is looking to make a statement and she should. You know, Rachel Mitchell should. Because the legal system shouldn't be played around with. This woman has wasted so many resources, police resources, with all of her phone calls, having them show up to the house and just taking. Wasting time and energy. And so I. In order for a judicial system to be taken seriously, there needs to be punishment for when you abuse the system. And that's what she's done. So I do think that, again, this is something where a statement needs to be made because if she is let off with no penalties, this will actually encourage other people to do something similar.
- [13:22]
Sixth Bureau Narrator
Sure.
- [13:23]
Stephanie Young
So I read that. Well, first I want to ask, was there a moment when you realized, oh, this is not going away quickly, and was that when I read that she was proposed to you, that she would get rid of the child? The pregnancy. Excuse me, the pregnancy, if you agreed to a dating contract of some kind, Is that accurate?
- [13:46]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, she stated first it was two weeks, and then, you know, in her desperation, she took it down to one. But she essentially said, if you date me, I'll have an abortion, but if you don't date me, I'm having the child. Yeah.
- [13:58]
Stephanie Young
And what was your response? Did she say this on the phone or was this an email or, I
- [14:02]
Clayton Eckhardt
mean, a phone call? Then once I blocked her, it was an email. And I did try to hash things out in person with her. So I had her come over to talk through things at one point. But to answer your question, when I knew that it wasn't going to go away, it was, it was, it was after she said she was pregnant, I still thought maybe she would just give it up. Once I blocked her, I knew it wasn't going away once she sent me another patern or another pregnancy test. And so after she had sent the first one saying I'm pregnant, she sent another one and said, I'm here at the doctor and here's the doctor notes. And I'm like, okay, wow, she's really, really moving forward with this. She's trying to convince me through documentation. And that's where that along with five, six messages a day, she never stopped. She was just continuously trying to, you know, just, just be in my head at all times with, with new information and threatening to sue me for the, the real estate transactions. Because we originally she reached out for real estate.
- [15:15]
Stephanie Young
Right. That's what, so she wanted to buy a house from you?
- [15:18]
Clayton Eckhardt
Is that so she said? Yeah, she, she was looking to purchase investment properties, turn them into rentals. And so she had claimed that she was trying to get in contact with my brokerage, but couldn't get ahold of anybody. And so she wanted to work with us. So that was how she reached out. And I was naive and thought, hey, you know, just, I just got my license and I came from reality television, so this makes sense. People are going to reach out to me, like, the business is going to come to me, which is really nice. And so we, we exchanged information and, and then, yeah, just one night, it led to me crossing professional boundaries. I had taken a marijuana edible and she had sent me. I considered it a provocative photo. She wasn't like in like her, you know, like underwear or anything or lingerie. She was just wearing. Had tight spandex on, standing next to a horse. And so we talk about that as well on the podcast as far as, I mean, the host even gives me trouble for it. She's like, I can't believe that's all it took. I'm like, I mean, I was gonna
- [16:20]
Stephanie Young
ask, like, was it worth it? Like, wow. Was it really?
- [16:24]
Menelik Lumumba
No, not.
- [16:24]
Clayton Eckhardt
No, of course it wasn't. No. I would go back and I would be like, I'll take it all back. The two blowjobs weren't worth it. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy how. But ultimately was it actually, you know, I say, is it worth it? Yes, but not because for me, but because of the other victims. So as people will hear in this podcast, so it really, what it does is it places you in the shoes of the victims. And first it's, you know, it's in my shoes. And then as we go farther along into the series, you start to hear that there's others and you find out that she's been doing this for 10 plus years and you find out that her family are all accomplices and it gets very dark. And so why it's been worth it, actually, I have to step back on that statement is, yes, it is worth it because justice is being served for those previous victims that never received it, that essentially have been fighting her and lost, you know, really, they lost in court and. Or outside of court. And she beat them up and then placed restraining orders on them and on the other victims.
- [17:35]
Stephanie Young
On the other men.
- [17:36]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah. Yeah. And I got a restraining order against me. I didn't realize how easy it is to get a restraining order with no factual evidence, which she had None. Right. And yet she got a restraining order on me.
- [17:46]
Stephanie Young
And so, you know, it's like a systematic manipulation.
- [17:49]
Mind Games Narrator
Right.
- [17:49]
Stephanie Young
Like the step by step where it makes it look like it's you.
- [17:53]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah.
- [17:53]
Stephanie Young
And then it's by the time you're trying to catch us, like you're trying to play catch up the whole time.
- [17:58]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, it's just, she was just. Again, she's never held an actual job outside of her parents supporting her. And so she does this full time. I mean, she legitimately is perfecting her craft. And so again, like, as the series goes on, you'll hear about the other victims and you'll start hearing, you know, the patterns, realizing that this is one big, big old orchestrated just bout of madness that's been. That's been, over time, refined. And it goes deeper than, again, like, than just her. So.
- [18:30]
Stephanie Young
Sure. Yeah. So you said that the family are accomplices. What do you mean by that? So she had a famous father, certainly in the Bay Area, who is a well known. What would we call. He's a commentator.
- [18:43]
Clayton Eckhardt
Radio host.
- [18:44]
Stephanie Young
Radio host. Radio host who. I live in San Francisco, and so I wasn't aware of this person, but everyone else on the planet in this area was. So tell me, what do you mean by that about them being accomplices?
- [19:00]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah. So again, as. As the stories of the other victims are shared, you know, there's. There, there were early conversations, we're talking back in 2016 where, you know, her father had involvement talking directly to a victim and basically saying that he's aware of, you know, his daughter and what she's doing and, oh, wow. And then, you know, I spoke directly her mother on the phone and it was as if I was speaking to Laura. It was the all. It was almost as if I was talking to the puppet master. I mean, it was the, oh, wow. Everything that I thought it was going to be a conversation, you know, where I talked to a mother and she goes, oh, my gosh, I didn't know my daughter was doing this. Yeah, I don't want her to, you know, let me talk with her, talk some sense into her. But no, it was completely. It was the opposite. She said, I can't. You know, you impregnated my daughter. And so I, oh, my God, it's embarrassing. Or you should be disappointed that you won't step up to the plate as a man and give her a chance.
- [20:07]
Mind Games Narrator
What if mind control is real?
- [20:09]
Clayton Eckhardt
If you could control the behavior of
- [20:10]
Menelik Lumumba
anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?
- [20:12]
Mind Games Narrator
Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car.
- [20:16]
Clayton Eckhardt
When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.
- [20:20]
Mind Games Narrator
Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?
- [20:22]
Clayton Eckhardt
I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
- [20:26]
Mind Games Narrator
Can you get someone to join your cult?
- [20:28]
Amanda Knox
NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.
- [20:31]
Mind Games Narrator
Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.
- [20:42]
Clayton Eckhardt
It's about engineering consciousness.
- [20:44]
Mind Games Narrator
Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work.
- [21:02]
Stephanie Young
This is wild.
- [21:03]
Mind Games Narrator
Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [21:10]
Hans Charles
Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles.
- [21:12]
Menelik Lumumba
I'm inelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr have both been assassinated, and black America was at a breaking point. Rioting and protest broke out on an
- [21:23]
Hans Charles
unprecedented scale in Atlanta, Georgia. At Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr. And a young student, Samuel L. Jackson.
- [21:39]
Menelik Lumumba
To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean, people would die.
- [21:44]
Hans Charles
1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone.
- [21:48]
Special Agent Riegel
The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.
- [21:55]
Menelik Lumumba
This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind.
- [22:03]
Hans Charles
Listen to the A building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [22:10]
Amanda Knox
In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.
- [22:16]
Stephanie Young
The nurse who should have been in
- [22:18]
Clayton Eckhardt
charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.
- [22:25]
Amanda Knox
Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.
- [22:32]
Stephanie Young
Lucy Letby has been found guilty.
- [22:34]
Amanda Knox
But what if we didn't get the whole story?
- [22:36]
Clayton Eckhardt
The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.
- [22:39]
Amanda Knox
I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it. To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.
- [22:53]
Stephanie Young
No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.
- [22:56]
Clayton Eckhardt
It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.
- [23:02]
Amanda Knox
Listen to doubt. The case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [23:11]
Special Agent Riegel
China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.
- [23:21]
Clayton Eckhardt
This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
- [23:25]
Sixth Bureau Narrator
This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him, but the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.
- [23:39]
Clayton Eckhardt
I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life. And that's the unicorn.
- [23:48]
Hans Charles
No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.
- [23:53]
Special Agent Riegel
This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
- [24:02]
Sixth Bureau Narrator
Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:15]
Stephanie Young
So do you think that the parents just believed her? Do you think that she's mentally ill or she's a criminal?
- [24:21]
Clayton Eckhardt
No, I think she's a criminal. I think she's someone that's never had. Ever had to face accountability. This is a family that. They were millionaires at one point in their life. They had success in multiple realms. Financial, they had status. And so I believe they were in a bracket where they could talk their way or pay their way out of things. And they raised their children in that manner. And so Laura could, from what I've heard, could get out of anything at a young age. And. And, you know, and they were litigious. They were willing to, you know, impress, you know, lawsuits on people. And so just. Or at least just take them to court or threaten to sue. And. And, you know, when you. When you grow up as a child and you see that, you think, okay, well, we're invincible. And so I believe that's what happened. Laura felt she was invincible. She's been living with her parents all of her life. She still lives in their guest home. So she's never been independent. So you have someone that feels that she's invincible, and she said that to me. She sent me emails saying, I have an unlimited budget to sue you, and I will. Insinuating that there was no way she could fail or lose. So someone that's never faced accountability, this is what they would likely do, right?
- [25:38]
Stephanie Young
This is what they do. Don't get me started on accountability, because I have a real big be in my bonnet about it. So I'm with you on that.
- [25:49]
Clayton Eckhardt
I'm really big with accountability. I mean, I, you know, coming off Reality television. I had to take accountability for my own actions. And so, you know, I get it. The ego doesn't want you to take first. You want to point the finger. But, you know, this is the thing where even Laura, she's said now that, you know, we've caused all of this, and it's like, no, you have. You're the reason why all this exists, and you're the reason why you now have 14 felony charges that are about to be placed upon you. And Maybe you got 50 plus years of prison time that you're looking at, you know, and this is all her doing, you know, so it's nobody else's. It's like, Laura, if you decided that you just would have never faked a pregnancy, then we wouldn't be here today. Yeah, I gave her an out. I sent her a contract of like a never speak again clause about this, where I was like, hey, before she went public, I was like, if you just sign this document stating you were never pregnant by me and that you'll never bring it up again, you'll never harass me. Like, I will act as though this never happened.
- [26:49]
Stephanie Young
Right.
- [26:50]
Clayton Eckhardt
So I sent that to her, and she sent back, you know, I can't believe that you would send this. And so again, she. She believed that she was invincible and she believed she could lie her way out of it, and she got wrapped up in her own lies. And that's where, you know, with the help of my incredible legal team, we were able to pick apart all these things she had said. And they're all documented. I mean, everything was. Was, you know, on email or text. So when you hear this podcast, I mean, you're going to hear we have a voice actress that, you know, that is. Is, you know, is reading through these texts. And I mean, it's. It's. It's. Yeah, it's insidious. I mean, it's. It's. They picked a great voice. Voice actress. She sounds crazy, which is what Laura is. And so it's like, you know, it's. But it really puts you into that position where it's like, you know, these are the messages that actually were being sent. This is what it would feel like to. To be someone that's. That's a target of a heinous act like what Laura does.
- [27:49]
Stephanie Young
Yeah. I mean, so 500 emails and texts, I mean, that. That's a very big number. Did you read all of them?
- [27:59]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, because I. I was reading them out of curiosity, but I was also reading them to understand her Next move, because I had her in a block folder, but she had on read receipts, so anytime I opened them, she knew I was reading them. But I, you know, that when I decided at first I'm not going to read them, it didn't stop the emails from coming. And. And so when I wasn't reading the emails, she would send over a text message. And when I blocked that, she would use. I was. I believe she was using Google Voice. And so she was just creating a new phone number. So she texted me from over 13 different phone numbers, so I couldn't avoid, you know, those messages from coming through. I also realized that if I wasn't reading her emails, she'd start sending more messages to my family members or in organizations I was working with. So if I was in contact with her, then she was less in contact with people on the outside.
- [28:59]
Stephanie Young
Right?
- [28:59]
Clayton Eckhardt
And that's where I was trying to keep it under wraps. And I was like, look, I don't want her, you know, interacting with people on the outside because they're not aware of this story. And I. I mean, again, they're going to be like, what's going on? You know, So I was trying to keep it quiet.
- [29:15]
Stephanie Young
And people like this thrive on the. The connection with you, right? Like, it has to keep going. So if you totally understand what you're saying, like, if you could contain it to just between the two of you, it would stop spreading. Like.
- [29:30]
Clayton Eckhardt
Well, that's what it was, was how I was then trying to play chess with her, where I was trying to get ahead of her and at her game. And so something I discussed on the podcast is I had her come over because I said I wanted to talk with her and see if we could just, you know, just like, let's just talk and let's be reasonable and. And see if we can come to a solution here. But I was just trying to get her to come over to take a paternity or a pregnancy test. But when she showed up, she already had a pregnancy test ready to go, and she was ready to take the test as well. And so again, we talked as to why would she take a pregnancy test on the spot.
- [30:08]
Stephanie Young
Did she take it there on the spot?
- [30:09]
Clayton Eckhardt
She did, and it came back positive. So again, it all unravels. But this is where what I've been really impressed by is the production of the podcast. I first, when they brought it to me, I wasn't too excited because I'm like, okay, podcast is a podcast, but I've already talked on this a million times. But you know what. What's really incredible about this is it's storytelling. So it's, you know, there's voice actresses, there's her voice, there's my story, there's other stories. And so it takes. It puts you into our shoes, and it takes you through all the emotions as well. So early on, you know, you go, wait, wait, hold on.
- [30:46]
Menelik Lumumba
How.
- [30:47]
Stephanie Young
Yeah, wait, hold on. Yeah, Speaking of. Wait, hold on. How did it come back positive, the pregnancy test? And what did you. What was your response when you saw it?
- [30:55]
Clayton Eckhardt
Well, it came back positive because if we jump into the details a little bit, there's, you know, she was testing positive. A pregnancy test is testing for hcg. So, you know, it's a pregnancy hormone. So the question then became, you know, is she actually pregnant or is she manipulating HCG levels in her body? And so, you know, there. We've. We've obviously uncovered what that is now. I guess I'll tease that. So when people listen, we do figure out how she was able to manipulate those levels.
- [31:29]
Stephanie Young
Oh, you do?
- [31:31]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah.
- [31:31]
Special Agent Riegel
So.
- [31:31]
Stephanie Young
So that you've gotten, like, an education in science, and this has been a whole lot.
- [31:35]
Clayton Eckhardt
Well, I had to Google a lot of this. And, you know, because I was trying to uncover any holes in her, you know, in her story, because I was so desperately wanting it to not be true. You know, I thought, well, maybe she did successfully trap me. But so far, she's not giving me any concrete evidence. And what she would send me, I would see pixelation on the images so it looked like things were photoshopped. And so it was this kind of cat and mouse game of like, how do I, you know, get ahead of her and catch her in an act where I can just disrupt. Prove this right now. But because I wasn't her first victim, you know, she had experience and I didn't. Obviously, this was my first go around in a situation like this. I was, you know, whereas she was on, you know, number four, at least, you know, where we.
- [32:25]
Stephanie Young
She was getting better.
- [32:26]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, we know. Yeah. So she more skilled and she as. Again, as in the podcast, it'll show. Like previous victims, she was learning from her own craft and not making the same mistakes. So the next time around, she wouldn't get caught in the same lies like
- [32:42]
Stephanie Young
Sandra bullock in Ocean's 8. Yeah, she's, like, learning the whole time she's incarcerated.
- [32:48]
Clayton Eckhardt
And I wonder if, you know, she took inspiration from a movie or something along those lines, because, yeah, it was very well crafted. I mean, she's smart. She could speak on the Medical jargon. She knew a lot about real estate. She's a very intelligent person, which is scary because that's where, yeah, you know, she's able to manipulate and gaslight and that's her tactic is I'm going to, you know, overwhelm you, but I'm going to give you evidence and I'm going to be able to put this together. It's not sloppy. I mean, she did a pretty good job of selling a narrative. I just, you know, thankfully again, she couldn't produce concrete evidence because of the. She didn't have any. But she was able to definitely pull me along to where I had. I definitely considered my own sanity. I mean, I had to question.
- [33:33]
Stephanie Young
I bet. Who did you lean on during this time? Were you talking to friends about this or family? Like how did you take care of your mental state?
- [33:42]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, mainly my family. And you know, I got a great bit of advice from my dad. One day he called me after she had emailed my family. So I obviously had to tell them and bring it to light. And so I told them. And one day my dad, you know, called me and he was just like, just want to check in and see how you're doing. And I said, this is probably like less than a month into this whole scenario. And I said, dad, I'll be honest with you. I have no energy or drive to do anything. Like I am just laying in my bed staring up at the ceiling. I can't even. I'm doing my job, I work from home, I do the bare minimum and then the rest of the day I just stare up of the ceiling and, and wonder like how bad my life is going to be. You know, if this woman actually is pregnant, she's going to destroy my life. You know, I co parenting with this woman. She's a monster, you know. And so I, I was staring at the ceiling and I was like, dad, I can't function. And he said, well, Clayton, he said, if she is in fact pregnant, your life will not change for another eight months. So you know, you're month end but all you can do is live in the present moment right now. You never know what could happen. She could decide she actually doesn't want to move forward with this. If actually pregnant, she could have an abortion, she could have a miscarriage, you know, or she could have the child. But whatever the sit, you know, scenario is, it's not truth and it's not something you have to respond to until, you know, eight more months from now when she delivers the baby. And then at that point it's real. And at that point, you can respond to whatever the actual scenario is. But you sitting here looking up at the ceiling and wonder and thinking, worst case scenario, it may never present. And that was incredible advice because he was right. Because, I mean, because he said that a month in, before we were able to obviously disprove completely and before she even went public and when I was still questioning, is she like, did she trap me? Did she not? But. But yeah, I mean, obviously the scenario that prevailed was everything was made up and here we are. So, you know, in that moment, I learned a really valuable lesson, to just live in the present moment and. And just only respond to what's actually real.
- [35:48]
Mind Games Narrator
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Stephanie Young
Were you able to date at all during this time?
- [35:53]
Clayton Eckhardt
It made dating really hard because.
- [35:56]
Stephanie Young
Was it public yet at this point? She made it public first, Is that right?
- [36:00]
Clayton Eckhardt
Public. If I remember, it was in September of 2023. So I met her in May, and I was talking to somebody right around the time that I met Laura. I just started talking to this woman. Well, it started to get more serious. So about a. It was like a few weeks after she said she was pregnant, things were getting serious with this woman, this other woman. And so I ended up, you know, basically bringing it up to her and saying, hey, you know, you need to be aware of this because things are getting serious between us and this is something that's going on. And I don't believe she's pregnant, but, like, I'm not fully certain, but she's certainly being a nuisance. And I said, so I want you to know this just so you understand what you might be getting into. And so she said, hey, thank you for telling me. Ultimately, I really like you, but it's early on and like, I don't want to be involved in this in any capacity. So I said, I understand, and that was the end of it. So, yeah, it definitely, like, after that, that individual, I didn't try to date because I. I just was like, look, this will be every single woman, and why not? You know?
- [37:10]
Stephanie Young
Yeah, I was going to say, did it affect your trust in other women and women in general?
- [37:16]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, not as much as people might have thought it would, but it has at times. I mean, there have been multiple. Like, it has. It stopped me and made me celibate. No, like, I think this is where, like, you know, the male brain with testosterone and like these, these animal brains of ours, like this, sometimes we just shift into one gear and we don't think about rationally on the other side until we have that moment of clarity afterwards and then we go, I need to do that. Right. Like, that's when those moments would hit where I was, that's where I would panic. I'd be like, Clayton, like, you could find yourself right back in this scenario. Like. Cause Laura was normal until she wasn't. Like, I talk about it in the podcast, but there was a point at which, like, she just snapped.
- [38:00]
Stephanie Young
Yeah. What was that moment? What made you. Because I read that she. I'm paraphrasing, but something like she, she. Her response, her reaction to you saying, you know, maybe this was a mistake pretty early on, that she, her reaction was really extreme. And that made you not want to continue any kind of relationship with her.
- [38:23]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, I mean, I'll never forget. It was, you know, the next day after we had hooked up and she was hoping that we could continue to talk and date. And I told her, hey, that was a one time thing and I'm not interested in pursuing this further. She began to cry. And that's when I knew something was off because I had just met this woman. So I'm like, this woman's now hysterically crying and begging for me to date her. And I've only talked to this woman for like five days, you know, so that was the first sign, the extreme emotion. But then when I finally said, you know, no means no. Stop asking me to date you. Because I became agile, agitated, when she kept begging. And I was like, you're not listening and hearing me. Like, I. And so I finally just said, no means no. Stop asking me to date you. And that moment is when her face went stone cold and she wiped the tears and gave, said, all right, I understand. Have a great day.
- [39:19]
Stephanie Young
And is that when she went to the sun and gave the interview?
- [39:21]
Clayton Eckhardt
No, that was just when. Before she even said she was pregnant. But that's when I felt, in that moment, I'm like. Like I'm dealing with a very dark energy. I mean, her eyes didn't go all black, but it felt that way when she said, no, I get it. Have a great day. I had chills over my entire body because it's. Her eyes glossed over. Like, I. The lights went off and it's like something overtook her is what it felt like. You know, I'm very spiritual and I just feel like something, some dark energy in that moment. I could see it in her eyes. It's like as if just the glass went over and it was like, okay, you've just flipped the switch and you're my next victim. And that's what ultimately, I mean, I felt. And then, I mean, yeah, my intuition was right, because then, you know, 11 days later, she's sending me a positive pregnancy test and claiming that, you know, that I'm the father.
- [40:18]
Mind Games Narrator
What if mind control is real?
- [40:20]
Clayton Eckhardt
If you could control the behavior of
- [40:22]
Menelik Lumumba
anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?
- [40:24]
Mind Games Narrator
Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?
- [40:27]
Clayton Eckhardt
When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.
- [40:31]
Mind Games Narrator
Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?
- [40:34]
Clayton Eckhardt
I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
- [40:37]
Mind Games Narrator
Can you get someone to join your cult?
- [40:40]
Amanda Knox
NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.
- [40:43]
Mind Games Narrator
Nlp, AKA Neuro linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.
- [40:54]
Clayton Eckhardt
It's about engineering consciousness.
- [40:56]
Mind Games Narrator
Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, nlp, might actually work.
- [41:14]
Stephanie Young
This is wild.
- [41:15]
Mind Games Narrator
Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [41:21]
Hans Charles
Welcome to the A Building. I'm Hans Charles.
- [41:23]
Menelik Lumumba
I'm in Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr have both been assassinated, and black America was at a breaking point. Rioting and protest broke out on an
- [41:34]
Hans Charles
unprecedented scale in Atlanta, Georgia. At Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own Protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Jr. And a young student, Samuel L. Jackson.
- [41:51]
Menelik Lumumba
To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying.
- [41:55]
Hans Charles
1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone.
- [42:00]
Special Agent Riegel
The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.
- [42:06]
Menelik Lumumba
This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind.
- [42:14]
Hans Charles
Listen to the A building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [42:21]
Amanda Knox
In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.
- [42:27]
Clayton Eckhardt
A nurse who should have been in charge of caring for Tiny is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.
- [42:36]
Amanda Knox
Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.
- [42:43]
Stephanie Young
Lucy Letby has been found guilty.
- [42:45]
Amanda Knox
But what if we didn't get the whole story?
- [42:48]
Clayton Eckhardt
The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.
- [42:50]
Amanda Knox
I'm Amanda Knox. And in the new podcast, the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the X evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.
- [43:04]
Stephanie Young
No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.
- [43:08]
Clayton Eckhardt
It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.
- [43:13]
Amanda Knox
Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [43:23]
Special Agent Riegel
China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.
- [43:32]
Clayton Eckhardt
This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
- [43:37]
Sixth Bureau Narrator
This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.
- [43:50]
Clayton Eckhardt
I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn.
- [43:59]
Hans Charles
No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.
- [44:04]
Special Agent Riegel
This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
- [44:13]
Sixth Bureau Narrator
Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [44:26]
Stephanie Young
Two things. How. How did it feel when you did you. When you read the sun article, when that came out, how. How did that feel to you?
- [44:38]
Clayton Eckhardt
I mean, it was a lot. She knew that I was filming a pickleball reality TV show locally, so it was my first hosting gig, and she knew that that was the first day that I was hosting. So she lined it up, the release of the article with my first day as a host. So I'm in this pickleball venue and I'm reciting my lines, and I knew the article was already coming because I had the writer already texting me, telling me, hey, I'll give you a heads up. I'm releasing this in the next few hours.
- [45:11]
Stephanie Young
Oh, wow.
- [45:12]
Clayton Eckhardt
And so I knew the article was coming. And then she said, hey, I'm about to post it. And I was, at the time, I was recording, but I then went to the locker room afterwards and I opened my phone up and boom, it's. She's like, hey, it's posted. And I just sat there and put my head into my hands and I just took probably three minutes of silence. And then I went straight to the owner of the facility that was orchestrating this whole show. And I said, hey, I need to talk to you. It's really serious. And he said, okay. He says, do I need to get everybody else? I said, yes, you need to get everyone that's involved in this from a production standpoint, at least the decision makers. So I brought it to them and, and I told them the scenario and ultimately they kept me on because they, they said, you know, they brought, they said, okay, you can leave the room. And then after like five minutes, they said, hey, come back in the room. And they said, we just want to, we, you know, are you telling the truth? I said, I thousand percent I'm telling the truth. This one is making it all up. And they said, okay, then we're going to stick with you.
- [46:15]
Stephanie Young
I really appreciate you. You know, you said this a couple of times already, and I think that you are exemplifying it about being accountable and there's something incredibly valuable about meeting things head on and as early and as quickly as possible. And I just think there's a lot of merit to that. And so, bravo.
- [46:38]
Clayton Eckhardt
No, thank you. I, I, I've, I just feel that again, it's like if I, if I've made mistakes, then I'm, I'll, I want to own up to them, you know, and certainly it takes two to tango. I mean, I should have never crossed the professional boundary that I did originally with a client. And so I understand that, like, had I just, you know, had a hard and fast rule, this would have been all avoidable. But, you know, again, I'm like, look, I'm human. And the whole point of this is more just to share my story in hopes that it, you know, deters other people from doing something similar or also it maybe leads to other people getting justice, which, which it will. It's not just my story, you know, there's at least three other victims, and so they're receiving justice as well.
- [47:25]
Stephanie Young
Yeah. At what point did you realize that there were other victims?
- [47:29]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, I found out when she went public, less than 24 hours. It was probably, honestly, when she went public, it was like two hours later, I got a dm. Wow. From the now wife of the other victim. And she said, you, you need to look into this court case. You're not the only one.
- [47:45]
Stephanie Young
Oh my gosh. So she really created her own demise.
- [47:49]
Clayton Eckhardt
I mean, she, yeah, her going public, I'll never forget because the reporter, she said, maybe her going public will be the best thing that ever happened to you. And I said, I said, yeah, sure, whatever. I said, just have, I was pissed. I'm like, yeah, you can feed me your bullshit because you're just trying to justify you releasing this article, but you don't, you don't care about me and my well being. But she was right, you know, she. It definitely led to her demise. It was the best thing she could have done was go public because it instantly switched the narrative the second that she went public. I then went and found the court case the next day and then I posted about it online to lead people to the case. I just, all I said was, hey, there's a, there's another case against the same individual in the Phoenix court system. And then, you know, because that was the truth and then people went racing to go pull dig up the information and that that was it.
- [48:41]
Stephanie Young
And then. So did you feel supported by the, the Bachelor Nation and all of your fans at that point?
- [48:48]
Clayton Eckhardt
That's when the narrative switched? Yeah, I mean, I, I wouldn't say like I felt so. Well, I. I've learned this, that like Bachelor Nation, if we're talking about other contestants, you know, men and women, I didn't receive a lot of support. But that's also because I didn't put a lot of effort into relationships post show. I isolated myself from that whole environment. I was so upset with how the show went and I didn't feel I was depicted fairly and I just really had a bad taste in my mouth about the whole experience. And so I avoided just interacting with people from the show. Everything was bad. If it was Bachelor related, it was bad in my mind. So I was an outcast, I guess, that I'd created of that myself. And I went to Phoenix and I didn't get involved in that scene. So whenever it came time to, you know, people were to stand up and support me. Like most of these people were like, well, he doesn't really interact with us and I don't know the guy, so why would I step into the middle of this? So I didn't have a lot of like, support, but that was my own doing, you know, because I wasn't, you know, fostering those relationships. As far as like the fans of the show, I know I got a lot of blowback online. When the scandal first came out, there were a lot of people that wanted it to be true because they wanted it furthered their narrative that I was this bad guy that they all believe me to be. He's a monster. This tracks. He. He is with the guy we saw on tv. He's just a bad person. Like this. That's what. And here you go. This is what happens, you know, this is what bad people do. So they all went after Me with their pitchforks right out the gate. When I was able to turn the narrative and show the truth, they all acted like nothing happened. Or they ignored the whole. They ignored it. Or some of them were like, oh, we weren't even like, we. We supported him right away. Like, they're, they're revisionist his, you know, history. They're. They're acting like they were all sudden supporting me. I'm like, because you all can't take accountability and just admit that you wanted to see me fail because that would have you. That you, you'd have to admit that you were wrong and that you were. That you. And they don't want to do that. So there's just some. A lot of people online that weren't accountable that basically just said, like, oh, whatever, this girl's crazy. Like, let's not talk about. I even saw this narrative. Well, let's not talk about this woman needs serious help. So, like, let's not highlight this. I'm like, no. Oh, so you, you wanted, you wanted to push this all out there and defame me and read the articles and post them online. But the second that all of a sudden I'm. I'm innocent. Oh, like, guys, let's not shine light on this because, like, this woman needs help and we shouldn't really, you know, we shouldn't make this worse than what it is. It was bullshit.
- [51:10]
Stephanie Young
That's such a complicated line of, you know, mental health and accountability and criminal, like, it's. I can just imagine how that went. So if someone listening is facing a false accusation, like, similar, what advice would you give them?
- [51:28]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, I mean, first I would make sure that you have an adequate support system in place, because I think a lot of this. Well, a lot of your emotional energy is going to go towards fighting this individual. Of course, you have to assess how seriously they're going to fight you if you, if, you know, so there's levels. If they're just going to send you some messages, block them, you know, if they obviously show up to your house, call the cops, you know, I mean, make sure that you're protected. If you need to get an order of protection, do that. But do I think that you should go straight to getting order protection straight to taking them to court straight to, you know, defamation? No, because I think, of course, like, if you do that to somebody that's texting you and you ramp up the, you know, all of a sudden the severity of it, like, you could piss them off, off, you know, and that's where you have to it's like you don't fight fire with fire per se, until like, fire is the only thing you can fight with. I, I think, you know, someone going through something similar, it's like, hey, just try to let it subside. You know, just stop interacting with them. Block their phone number. If they email you, block their email. Make sure, like that, you know, you, you have a good support system in place to keep your emotions at bay. So you don't keep suppressing all this. Have an outlet to get out, like your struggles and so the things you're feeling, because you don't want to push those down because otherwise they'll bubble up and then, and then just from there, and then be, and then react accordingly. There does come a point where if you're fighting against somebody that is not going to let it go, then I do believe there's that point where you go, okay, I'm switching from reactive to proactive. And that's what I did. I, I got to a point where I said, you know, I'm tired of being reactive. This woman is not going to, to stop. I have to now take charge. I have to get ahead of her game and put the pressure on her by being, becoming proactive. So I hired a legal team and filed in the court to get her to prove that she was pregnant. And that's where things switched. All of a sudden. I was like, no, we're not playing your game. We're going to play my game, right?
- [53:30]
Stephanie Young
Going from de. Escalating it, actually escalating it. Like that's that fine line, right? Figuring out which is which. So what do you hurt? The trial is now set for July. What are you expecting from the upcoming trial and what will moving on look like?
- [53:49]
Clayton Eckhardt
What I'm hoping is for justice in the form of prison time. I do at this point. She's still, she said she's not guilty, so that's, that's the claim she's going with. She's not, you know, I don't think she's taking a plea at this point. I haven't heard that she is. So no accountability has still been taken, taken. So I want her to face charges. So that's, you know, to me, what does that look like? I mean, sometime in federal prison, if she's facing 57 years, I don't anticipate expect her to get 57 years, but she better not get off, you know, with, with no jail time. I mean, because look like ultimately I can't persuade, you know, I can share my story and I can Testify. But if the county attorney just lets her go.
- [54:33]
Stephanie Young
Yeah. Will you testify? Do you know yet? If you have to, you will?
- [54:37]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, I definitely am. But here's the thing, like if I don't, if it gets off, if she gets off with a slap on the wrist and like this will she will do it again and for sure. And then not only will she do it again, but someone that's following this will go, oh, so you can just get away with all this and, and waste people's time and not face any accountability and this will set up the next, next round of perpetrators.
- [55:00]
Stephanie Young
Right.
- [55:01]
Clayton Eckhardt
So the county attorney has to make an example out of her if they want the court system to be taken seriously. Because if, if she gets off, you've just showed that the judicial judicial system has no accountability and there's no, you know, as long as you just keep lying and lying and lying, there's, you know, there's no punishment to be had. So I don't see that happening. I really do believe Rachel Mitchell, I mean has pursued her and has pursued her hard and is continually stacking more and more charges. I've even heard that there's potentially more coming on top of the 14.
- [55:33]
Stephanie Young
I also read that her parents, they had filed for bankruptcy and there was all sorts of discrepancies about what they were going to be using the money for and they, you know, insinuating that perhaps they were going to use it for her legal defense. And so it does seem as though they're trying to make everyone accountable to some degree.
- [55:53]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah, no, I mean her just, just actually found out today that her parents house is up for auction. So I mean they, they are completely over leveraged from what I understand. You know, they are in heavy debt. They don't, they don't have the money they used to have anymore. And so you know, they're why liquidating the home? I mean it's because they're not paying their mortgage is my understanding. And so yeah, I mean assets are getting liquidated and you know, the curtain is falling. So I mean accountability is, is, is seemingly on the way. I'd be shocked if we, you know, if, if at the end of July if, if she was able to walk freely,
- [56:32]
Stephanie Young
I, I will be surprised as
- [56:34]
Clayton Eckhardt
well if that happens and then I'll become an advocate for, for you know, victims like me. And I'm like, look like I, I don't want to do that, but I'm like if, if it gets to that point where like she gets off scot free, it's, it's definitely something that I've then considered. Like, do I, I start advocating, do I start going for pushing for new legislation? I mean, I don't really.
- [56:51]
Stephanie Young
Right.
- [56:52]
Clayton Eckhardt
Because to me, this, like, it would make me sick to my stomach and I would be extremely angry at the court system. I don't want to. Again, I, I have nothing but great things to say about the court system right now. Is not, not so much about the, the time. The, the, the, this, the slowness certainly could, could speed up. They could have a little bit of a faster process. But outside of that, we've got, you know, things have worked in our favor. So I'm like, look, I'm fine with this working at a snail's pace as long as we get the justice but we get.
- [57:23]
Stephanie Young
Right.
- [57:23]
Clayton Eckhardt
I mean, how many other people out there, you hear about this where they go to court and they, you know, they lose and it's like, there's no accountability. I just think it gets to a point where it's like, guys, like, we need to have, like, there needs to be punishment for people that do stuff like this. So. So, yeah, I agree. I'm optimistic. I am. I actually really do believe that, that she's going to. I mean, the fact that she's facing 57 years, I didn't think we're even going to get to that amount.
- [57:47]
Stephanie Young
Right. Well, people can hear all of the details, all the meaty details of this on your new podcast, Love Trapped, Owens v. Eckhard. And the first episode drops today. And Clayton, first two. First two. Clayton, thank you so much for. You know, in all honesty, I didn't know that much about this before I knew that we were going to speak. And then the more I read, the further my jaw was dropping onto the desk. Like, I just. So. I'm sorry for all that you've been through, and I really appreciate you being here today, and I hope that this all goes the right direction for you.
- [58:32]
Clayton Eckhardt
Yeah. Thank you so much for giving me a platform again. It just helps to get the story out, so that way justice will have a higher chance of getting served. So thank you.
- [58:41]
Stephanie Young
All right, thank you.
- [58:53]
Menelik Lumumba
1969. Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move.
- [59:00]
Hans Charles
These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the board of trustees, including Martin Luther King Senior. It's the true story of protest and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles.
- [59:15]
Menelik Lumumba
Our menelik Lumumba.
- [59:16]
Hans Charles
Listen to the A building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [59:23]
Clayton Eckhardt
This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
- [59:27]
Special Agent Riegel
In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.
- [59:36]
Sixth Bureau Narrator
The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
- [59:45]
Special Agent Riegel
Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [59:52]
Amanda Knox
I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, the Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?
- [60:05]
Stephanie Young
Evidence has been made to fit.
- [60:07]
Clayton Eckhardt
The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.
- [60:09]
Amanda Knox
What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?
- [60:13]
Stephanie Young
Oh, my God. I think she might be innocent.
- [60:15]
Amanda Knox
Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [60:23]
Clayton Eckhardt
I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's the Bachelor.
- [60:28]
Amanda Knox
But here's the Bachelor. Fans hated him.
- [60:31]
Clayton Eckhardt
If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.
- [60:34]
Amanda Knox
That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one night stand would end in a courtroom.
- [60:41]
Stephanie Young
The media is here.
- [60:42]
Clayton Eckhardt
This case has gone viral. The dating contract.
- [60:45]
Stephanie Young
Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.
- [60:48]
Clayton Eckhardt
This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.
- [60:51]
Stephanie Young
I'm Stephanie Young.
- [60:52]
Amanda Knox
Listen to Love trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.
- [61:01]
Stephanie Young
Guaranteed Human.