How a Podcast Could Spare the Life of a Convicted Death Row Inmate

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present

Episode Title: How a Podcast Could Spare the Life of a Convicted Death Row Inmate
Date: October 8, 2025
Hosts: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the imminent execution of Robert Roberson, a Texas man on death row for over two decades, and how a single podcast interview may be the key to saving his life. The hosts dig into the judicial, medical, and legislative complexities of Roberson's case, highlighting the role of "junk science," potential judicial misconduct, and questions of due process. The episode asks: if new information discovered via podcast can upend a death penalty case, what does this say about the flaws in America's justice system?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Case Background & Death Row Realities

• Robert Roberson's Case:
  • On death row for nearly 30 years in Texas for the 2002 death of his 2-year-old daughter, Nikki.
  • Convicted on the basis of "shaken baby syndrome," a diagnosis now largely discredited.
  • Execution scheduled for October 16, 2025—he would be the first person in the U.S. executed after conviction for shaken baby syndrome (03:40).
• Bipartisan Effort for Stay:
  • Rare bipartisan effort in the Texas legislature to delay his execution.
  • "Texas, first of all, trying to save a death row inmate. Bipartisan in Texas." – TJ Holmes (03:16)
  • The legislature succeeded in getting a one-year stay, now expiring.

2. Medical Evidence & the Dangers of "Junk Science"

• Discredited Science:
  • Roberson's conviction relied on methods regarding shaken baby syndrome no longer accepted by the medical community.
  • “Most people would suggest … he would never have been convicted today.” – Amy Robach (05:38)
• Alternate Explanations for Nikki’s Death:
  • Nikki had multiple complex medical issues, was on prescribed drugs now banned for children, and reportedly fell from a bed.
  • These factors could completely change the cause of death assessment (17:50).
  • “It's possible by today's medical standards that Robert Roberson had nothing to do at all with his child's death.” – Amy Robach (17:50)

3. Impact of Podcast Discovery

• Podcast as New Evidence:

  • Recent Dateline podcast episode brought to light major potential judicial misconduct.
  • Maternal grandfather (Larry Bowman) revealed that Judge Bascom Bentley instructed the hospital to give the grandparents permission to remove Nikki from life support—despite Roberson being her legal guardian (07:32).

• Questions of Due Process:

  • Same judge signed the arrest warrant, presided over the case, and apparently overstepped legal boundaries in life support decisions.
  • “One man, from start to finish was basically responsible for this guy being on death row. Truly.” – Amy Robach (09:02)

4. Judicial Misconduct Allegations

• Structural Error & Conflict of Interest:
  • Roberson’s lawyers filed motions citing that Judge Bentley’s involvement was a violation of constitutional rights due to conflict of interest.
  • “[Bentley] should have recused himself from presiding over Mr. Robertson's criminal case ... [his involvement] caused structural error and requires a new trial.” (Petition Quoted at 19:59)
• TJ Holmes’ Reaction:
  • “His rights were violated, and the judge played a role in that … I need to talk to a lawyer to see where that's not a problem.” (20:20)
• Amy Robach:
  • “That is absolutely a conflict of interest from start to finish ... That dude deserves a new trial.” (20:41)

5. Societal and Systemic Reflections

• Greater Implications for Death Penalty Cases:

  • The episode questions whether the irrevocability of execution can be justified in light of shifting science and new evidence.
  • “We cannot make a mistake. So this is too many questions.” – TJ Holmes (21:41)

• Autism & Misinterpretations:

  • Roberson was diagnosed as autistic years after conviction.
  • The lead detective later recanted, believing misinterpretations of Roberson’s affect (due to his autism) contributed to wrongful conviction (09:02).
  • “If the detective back then had that same knowledge, maybe he would have looked at it differently.” – TJ Holmes (10:37)

6. Imminence of Execution & Last Legal Avenues

• Time Running Out:
  • As of this episode, Roberson’s new legal challenges—including those stemming from the podcast revelation—are pending, with only eight days left before the scheduled execution (12:49).
  • Historical opposition from Texas Governor Greg Abbott to any commutation or clemency.
  • “That appeal is still ongoing ... but time is running out.” – Amy Robach (12:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is probably going to be a good case study for why we should not be executing people if somebody could be on death row for almost 30 years and one podcast interview is the thing that gets us to rethink the case.” (TJ Holmes, 02:25)

• “If they do execute Robert Roberson next week ... he will be the first person in the country ever executed based on being convicted for a shaken baby syndrome murder.” (TJ Holmes, 03:40)

• “There are, there were complex medical issues ... if a jury today were to take a look at the same evidence ... most people would suggest ... he would never have been convicted today.” (Amy Robach, 05:38)

• “Bowman said in the [Dateline] interview that the judge Bascom Bentley called the hospital ... [and] told the hospital that the Bowmans ... were the parents. ... The problem here, they did not have the right … Roberson was the legal guardian ... This judge ... also signed the arrest warrant ... and then presided over the trial. And how is that ok?” (Segment, 07:32–08:36)

• "It gives me chills to be frank here, because this goes above and beyond all the other junk science evidence ... deeply concerning about justice in this country." (Amy Robach, 09:02)

• “This judge was not just judge. He ended up being jury and looks like he's going to be executioner ...” (TJ Holmes, 13:25)

• "I actually feel emotionally invested in this. Like, I am nervous for next week because I hate to think that this country that we live in, this country that we love, would make this call. It makes me feel actually physically ill with this case in particular." (Amy Robach, 22:12)

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Timestamps for Significant Segments

• [02:25] - TJ Holmes introduces the Roberson case and the idea that a podcast episode could change a death row inmate’s fate.
• [03:40] - Outline of Roberson’s case and the unprecedented nature of the potential execution.
• [05:38] - Discussion of discredited shaken baby syndrome science and evolving medical understanding.
• [07:32 – 08:36] - Key revelations from Dateline podcast interview with grandfather Larry Bowman; judge’s dual role and conflict.
• [09:02] - Amy reflects on the sweeping conflict of interest in the case and new insights regarding Roberson's autism.
• [12:49] - Legal status update: multiple appeals with only days left.
• [17:50] - Recap of key arguments for Roberson’s innocence and how medical and judicial errors may have affected the case.
• [19:59] - Reading from the legal petition demanding a new trial due to judicial misconduct and structural error.
• [20:41] - Amy Robach’s strong reaction to the judge’s conflict of interest and the need for a new trial.
• [21:41] - Discussion of the seriousness and finality of the death penalty amid so much unresolved doubt.
• [22:12] - Amy’s closing emotional reflection and call to action for listeners to learn more.

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Closing

The episode powerfully underscores the stakes when justice is entangled with outdated science, poor legal processes, and a lack of due process. It demonstrates the unexpected influence media—specifically podcasts—can have in uncovering critical evidence and turning the course of a death penalty case. As the episode ends, the hosts urge listeners to stay engaged, read more, and consider the gravity of life-and-death decisions in America's criminal justice system.

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Transcript

[Amy Robach]

This is an I Heart podcast. You're juggling a lot. Full time job, side hustle, maybe a family. And now you're thinking about grad school. That's not crazy, that's ambitious. At American Public University they respect the hustle and they're built for it. Their flexible online master's programs are made for real life because big dreams deserve a real path. Learn more about APU's 40 plus career relevant master's degrees and certificates at ap Apus. Edu APU Built for the Hustle.

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[TJ Holmes]

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[Emily Maitlis]

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[TJ Holmes]

Hey there folks. It is Wednesday, October 8th. A man has been on death row for decades, but a podcast in Interview is going to be the thing that could get him off. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. This is probably going to be a good case study for why we should not be executing people if somebody could be on death row for almost 30 years and one podcast interview is the thing that gets us to rethink the case. That's where we are in this case in Texas.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. And this is a case that has so many people involved for a very long time. This is a case we have covered several times on our podcasts. Because you had an entire state legislator, legislature actually coming together, Republicans and Democrats, trying to get this guy's execution stayed. And it worked. Texas.

[TJ Holmes]

Texas, first of all, trying to save a death row inmate. Two bipartisan in Texas.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[TJ Holmes]

So that lets you know what the hell's going on.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. And they managed to get this man, Robert Robertson, 58 years old, a stay of execution for just one year. Unfortunately, and I say unfortunately for people who do believe in his innocence, he is set to die next week.

[TJ Holmes]

And look, there were enough questions. And there's a reason there are all these questions, because if they do execute Robert roberson Next week, 58 years old, if they do go forward with the execution, he will be the first person in the country ever executed based on being convicted for a shaken baby syndrome murder. Yes, he would be the first.

[Amy Robach]

We've done this story because the details are so I say fascinating, and I hate to say that when a man's life is at stake, but it begs the question about junk science.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay, it is, I think that's fair. Medically fascinating. Forensically, this is fascinating.

[Amy Robach]

It is. It certainly is. So he was so, by the way, I just want to say his execution date is on October 16th by lethal injection. We are absolutely going to be following this story up until that day. But he was convicted for the 2002 death of his two year old daughter, Nikki. He says that he fell asleep with Nikki. He says he woke up and she had fallen out of the bed, her lips were blue, she was unconscious and he took her to the hospital. There's a lot of details that follow after that that make this story not so black and white, not so cut and dry. And it's certainly been a big part of the arguments his lawyers have been making to dry, not just to get his execution state, but to exonerate him completely.

[TJ Holmes]

Because it's. Look, we know more about shaken baby syndrome today than we did 20. Was this account there 20. Whatever years.

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20.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, 23 years ago.

[TJ Holmes]

Right. We know more. And some of the facts, or the test, essentially, if you will forgive that crude way of putting it, that they would use to figure out if it's shaken baby syndrome, have been discredited. Like we've thrown those out. We don't use that anymore. That is what he was convicted of using. Those old rules, those old methods. Those old rules and methods that the medical community now has thrown out. You're asking, well, why should he not? Why are we going to kill a man over something we call junk science now?

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. And there are, there were complex medical issues that this young girl had been dealing with, including she had been prescribed certain kinds of drugs. And we'll get into all that. But when you really look at the evidence and if a jury today were to take a look at the same evidence we're looking at now with the understanding we have about shaken baby syndrome, most people would suggest, and including all those lawmakers, that he would never have been convicted today.

[TJ Holmes]

So that's where we are on the case. Look, there are plenty of people and there were some in government there in Texas that now this dude's a monster. And the child they couldn't explain has some blunt force trauma is what the those on that side keep pointing to. So this is now not a matter of and we don't want to re litigate that case. But there are new facts now that have come up and it's so interesting to think. Robeson, what is in congressional hearings and things we have been watching that people often are talking about. Yes, he said in a podcast interview. Well, you said in a podcast how much podcasts have made an impact. And here we are today talking about the possibility of a podcast interview getting a guy off death row.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. So this there was a new filing on Monday from his lawyers and they are claiming there is new evidence of judicial misconduct. That new evidence came from an episode of dateline's podcast. This was Lester Holt's interview with the maternal grandfather of Nikki. So this isn't Robert Roberson's father saying this. This is his baby's mother, Nikki's mother's father. So there isn't a compelling reason why he would be saying any of this to try and save his former son in law. This is a man who actually has some really interesting facts about what led up to the arrest of Robert Roberson. That is certainly questionable.

[TJ Holmes]

And the key here, and let's explain what this new evidence that they're pointing to, and we call it evidence, but they're saying that the grandfather here that's been interviewed by DATELINE for a podcast, his name is Larry Bowman. Larry Bowman, Nikki's grandfather. Okay. So Bowman said in the interview that the judge Bascom Bentley called the hospital after Nikki's injury and Directed them to call the Bowman's, the grandparents, for permission to remove the baby from life support. Bowman said the judge actually told the hospital that the Bowmans, who are actually the grandparents, were the parents. Therefore, they assumed that the grandparents had the right to, to take the child off life support. Problem here, they did not have the right to make the call. Robertson was the legal guardian of the child. But Rose, that could be reason enough, but they even have more things they point to and saying, yeah, the judge that made the call to the hospital, guess what?

[Amy Robach]

He's the one who also signed the arrest warrant for Robert Roberson and then presided over the trial. And how is that okay?

[TJ Holmes]

We should at least take a beat and not kill this guy next week on the 16th. All right, if nothing else, look, but if this, if we're just finding this out, is this the first time that anybody, any prosecutor, anybody ever heard of this fact? We got to take a beat.

[Amy Robach]

It gives me chills to be frank here, because this is, this goes above and beyond all the other junk science evidence that we've been talking about that got lawmakers involved. This is a completely separate issue that is deeply concerning about justice in this country. The fact that one man, from start to finish was basically responsible for this guy being on death row. Truly. And you have to ask, did he have a vendetta? Did he have a reason behind it? Well, we can't ask him because he's gone, he's dead. So he isn't around to even talk or explain about how it happened, why it happened, any of that. But Robertson had been granted custody two months earlier of his daughter. And he certainly, he was a single dad now at this point point and taking care of his daughter. And he clearly to, for him to not have been the one to make the call about his own daughter being removed from life support. And also, you know, we haven't even gotten into this, but he was diagnosed, I believe a few years later of being autistic. And that explained, even the, the head detective who actually contributed to Robert Robertson being convicted in court said part of the reason why he thought he was guilty was because he seemed so emotionally removed from the situation when he was in the hospital and his daughter was, you know, had grievous injuries or grievous issues. He seemed unemotional. Well, now that's been explained by his autism. And so that detective has been on a full campaign for the past several years trying to say this, Please, please, please, I believe this man is innocent. And I feel responsible because part of my Testimony put him away.

[TJ Holmes]

So even that, isn't that one of the things? I mean, we know more about autism. There's more awareness even. I mean, the medical community knows more about autism, but we in the public are at least aware of. Of it differently. Everybody, I think, knows if you meet someone or know someone who's autistic, you now know what that means. And you now aren't offended if they're not looking you in the eye or not responding a certain way. It's like we have just generally a better knowledge. If the detective back then had that same knowledge, maybe he would have looked at it differently. Maybe he would have been saying this same thing he's saying now back then. Who knows? But we know too much now. Too much new information. We have learned a lot more about science. This case about death, about. About too. To say those circumstances then should apply now. And that's got. We have got to. You can't make a mistake.

[Amy Robach]

And what's interesting to me is, you know, you had this huge campaign just based on the fact that, yes, you have this lead detective and the fact that this science that he was convicted by because of what they thought were little Nikki's issues and what led to and caused her death. The fact that you had all these lawmakers trying to stay his execution, just punting it a year. I don't know what that got anyone. And where all of that stands now in terms of the legal wrangling and what's being done behind the scenes, if anything, to stop this execution.

[TJ Holmes]

Did he ever jog my memory, Remember, they had a hearing set and he was supposed to testify, I think via conference, but they ended up canceling that. Does that sound right?

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay. There was a lot happening at that time, but again, they managed to get a delay. And again, we're talking about Texas, you know, Texas, where the Democrats and Republicans don't get along so much that literally the Democrats went on the run and the Republicans sent law enforcement after them. Those Democrats and Republicans got together on this in a state that they have to be number one or number two in executions in this country, historically speaking, and even close, that group is trying to save this man's life.

[Amy Robach]

That is unreal. Yes. So I should say Robertson did file a separate plea this month so that he could file this new legal challenge claiming his imprisonment is illegal because of the overwhelming evidence that he was convicted using that junk science. So that appeal is still ongoing. So he still has that working for him in addition to this new information that came out in the podcast so he is a. A couple avenues but time is running out. We're talking eight days from now. Yes. A week and a day from now from today. Next Thursday is his scheduled execution at.

[TJ Holmes]

6Pm and I'm pretty sure first time around there was nothing about Governor Abbott that signaled he was in any mood to commute this sentence and he was out of options at the time. Then look, there is something else we're talking. So it's not necessarily even a guilt or innocence we're talking about. He's not even asking people to look at the case but the facts of the case. But look at the facts of how he even got to jail. And it's something wrong with a man. That's just constitutionally that is not how it's supposed to work. This judge was not just judge. He ended up being jury and looks like he's going to be executioner with what he did. Call the hospital. These are the parents who weren't the parents. The child died. Who? I don't know medically, how much was it? I guess if a child was on life support, I assume it was not going to go well. But the father didn't get a chance to make the decision about his own child.

[Amy Robach]

There's so many things going on here.

[TJ Holmes]

And his rights were violated and you have to stop for a minute and take a beat on this guy's case.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, of course. And so when we come back we're going to tell you what Robertson's lawyers are saying, what their plea to the court is, what their plea to the country is about, why they're they believe their client should not only be allowed to live but should be set free. You're juggling a lot. Full time job, side hustle, maybe a family. And now you're thinking about grad school. That's not crazy, that's ambitious. At American Public University they respect the hustle and they're built for it. Their flexible online master's programs are made for real life because big dreams deserve a real path. Learn more about APU's 40 plus career relevant master's degrees and certificates at APU APUS EDU APU built for the Hustle.

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[Amy Robach]

Continuing now this episode of Amy and TJ where we are talking about a case we've been talking about for more than a year now. 58 year old Robert Roberson is scheduled to die by lethal injection next week in the state of Texas. Even though his execution was put on hold for a year by a bipartisan group of Texas lawmakers who reviewed some of the evidence who have been looking into this case. He would be, if he is executed, the first person in this country to die in after a conviction for shaken baby syndrome. His two year old girl Nikki died in 2002. And there are a lot of competing explanations as to why she died, how she could have died, but there certainly is now, in today's understanding of what shaken baby syndrome is, an explanation, a plausible explanation, that Nikki died from a combination of an illness, some drugs that are now no longer allowed to be prescribed for children, and falling out of bed. They all could have contributed to where she ended up on life support and it could not. It's possible it by today's medical standards that Robert Roberson had nothing to do at all with his child's death, which is what he has claimed from the beginning. But now there is new evidence from a podcast from Dateline that actually shows some pretty egregious misconduct, if true, in his actual arrest and certainly in the trial that ensued. And so we are now hearing from his lawyer who is asking, and they filed a petition earlier this week to try and get a stay of execution, but we're going to read exactly what that language was that they filed with the court. Any objective member of the public with knowledge of the new facts would reasonably believe that Judge Bentley had prejudiced Mr. Robertson's guilt and animated by that presumption of guilt, improperly circumvented the law governing parental rights and the guarantees of due process and thus should have recused himself from presiding over Mr. Robertson's criminal case to preserve the appearance of impartiality. Judge Bentley's failure to do so caused structural error and requires a new trial. So they are asking for a new trial.

[TJ Holmes]

Look, we, I, we need to call a lawyer because I wonder, is this a good grounds for.

[Amy Robach]

Seems like it.

[TJ Holmes]

His rights were violated and the judge played a role in that. His judge. He did not get a chance to make the call about his child. His constitutional rights were violated, period. The judge played a role in that. The judge who signed his arrest warrant and the judge who presided over his trial. I don't know. I need to talk to a lawyer to see where that's not a problem.

[Amy Robach]

As a, as a non legal expert, but as a member of the human race. It just seems to me fairly obvious that that is absolutely a conflict of interest from start to finish and that in and of itself would allow legally, it would seem it would appear it would. I just think from anyone who's looking at it from a distance, could say, yeah, that dude deserves a new trial. From the medical knowledge that we've gained over the past two decades from this seemingly egregious conduct by a judge who seemed or could have possibly had an agenda for whatever reason. All those two things combined alone. And then you have lawmakers from a state that has zero problem, for the most part, sending people to death row actually coming together in a rare instance to try and keep this man alive. For those reasons, why wouldn't we give this man a new trial? I mean, I'd pose it from that perspective.

[TJ Holmes]

I don't get it. But this has been an intriguing case for a long time. And hey, look, this is not any matter of guilt or innocence arguing anything. I will always argue, geez, we cannot make a mistake. So this is too many questions. There have been some folks that we've covered a lot of executions lately, and some of them go to that execution chamber, say, yep, I did it, and I'm sorry for what I did. This is just. And you feel differently about those, even if you're against the death penalty. This is just one where we seem to be in a rush to execute a guy. And just when there's too many questions.

[Amy Robach]

And if this has you as interested as it does us, we would encourage you to read up on this story. I mean, I actually feel emotionally invested in this. Like, I am nervous for next week because I hate to think that this country that we live in, this country that we love, would make this call. It makes me feel actually physically ill with this case in particular. So we will continue to follow this and bring you any updates as they warrant, but we appreciate you listening to us. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes, and we will talk to you very soon. What kind of man would let this happen to his family?

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[Amy Robach]

This is an iHeart podcast.