Jana Kramer: Life Imitates Art - A Relationship Turned Violent, Shocking Betrayals and Gaslighting.

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present — Ep. "Jana Kramer: Life Imitates Art - A Relationship Turned Violent, Shocking Betrayals and Gaslighting"
Date: March 19, 2026
Host: Elisa Donovan (filling for Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes)
Guest: Jana Kramer
Topic: The real story behind "Gaslit by My Husband: The Morgan Metzer Story," domestic violence, survival, and turning trauma into art and advocacy

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Overview

This searing and emotional episode centers on singer and actress Jana Kramer’s starring role in Gaslit by My Husband: The Morgan Metzer Story, a movie based on the true story of Morgan Metzer, a survivor of an abusive, gaslighting marriage that escalated to unthinkable violence. Kramer opens up about the parallels between the film and her own traumatic experience with domestic abuse, sharing raw insights on trauma, survival, and advocacy.

The conversation digs deeply into the psychological horrors of gaslighting, the challenges of leaving abusive relationships, the ripple effects on children, and the healing and responsibility involved in telling real women's stories on-screen. Both host and guest highlight the importance of believing women, recognizing red flags, and reforming family court structures to better protect survivors and their children.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The True Story Behind the Film

[03:25–07:04]

• The film depicts Morgan Metzer’s long-term abuse—mental, emotional, and ultimately, terrifying physical violence at the hands of her husband.
• The abuse included elaborate gaslighting, faking cancer, and a staged assault by a “masked intruder,” later revealed to be her ex-husband.
• “[The film] has that same note of, am I the crazy one? And do I deserve this? ...It’s the years of the mental abuse that just breaks down...you know, that woman.” — Jana Kramer [06:00]
• The movie became personal for Kramer, herself a survivor, leading to deep discussions with Morgan to portray her accurately.

2. Enduring and Leaving Abuse

[07:04–09:27]

• Morgan Metzer’s abuse began in early adulthood and escalated after personal tragedy (loss of a child).
• Both women reflect on the deep difficulty of leaving abusive relationships, especially where children are involved and the desire to preserve family normalcy persists.
• “[People ask] ‘How come you can’t get out?’ It’s like, ‘Why? I have to protect my kids too, in this.’” — Jana Kramer [08:57]

3. Parallels Between Morgan’s Story and Jana’s Life

[09:42–13:09]

• Kramer describes her direct contact with Morgan for authenticity in the film—particularly for the courtroom scene.
• Sharing her own story, Kramer explains, “I never got to speak to my abuser in court... I wish I would have had that healing moment.” [09:59]
• The film’s performance brings fresh waves of emotion for Morgan, particularly on the birthday of her late child.

4. Jana Kramer’s Personal Story of Abuse

[13:09–18:57]

• Kramer recounts meeting her abuser at 19, marrying him after two weeks, and being slowly isolated and degraded.
• Abuse escalated from insults to violence: “It was a push to a shove, to choking, to alienating me from friends... a lot of choking, a lot of hitting, and I just did not know how to get out.” — Jana Kramer [15:00]
• She recalls the moment of near-death, hiding from her abuser, and the trauma of being forced to return due to threats against her dogs.
• “You just...make you feel like it’s all your fault... I was pleading, I’m so sorry.” — Jana Kramer [16:30]

5. The Healing (and Trauma) of Making the Film

[23:18–26:46]

• Kramer discusses the emotional toll and risks of making the film—fears of feeling either numb or overwhelmed, triggering old trauma.
• The attack reenactment was especially difficult: “When he was on top of me...I get that, like, get the—[feeling] Get off of me.” — Jana Kramer [25:00]
• Support from co-star Austin and therapy allowed her to find healing, reclaim her voice, and regain power.
• “Through your story, I was able to get so much healing...I found my voice again through it...I got to take the power back in something that I didn’t even know I needed.” — Jana Kramer [26:30]

6. The Role of Safe Collaborators

[27:32–28:04]

• Choosing a safe scene partner (Austin Nichols) was crucial for Kramer to feel protected during the intense scenes.

7. Impact on Audience and Survivors

[28:25–29:05]

• The film’s wide reach on Netflix and Lifetime brought an outpouring of survivor stories, affirming real-world impact.
• “So many women going, ‘That was my story. I got out...’ Not many women get to get out of those situations.” — Jana Kramer [28:30]

8. The Escalation and Aftermath of Abuse

[29:05–32:15]

• The hosts discuss how abuse can escalate after separation or divorce, especially when control is lost.
• Examples include abusers faking illness, playing the hero, and continuing psychological warfare—even manipulating children.
• “It’s being aware that things like this can happen...if you have to parent with an abuser, that is...very hard.” — Jana Kramer [32:32]

9. Calling for Change: Courts, Advocacy, & Supervised Visitation

[33:35–34:44]

• Kramer criticizes courts for not accounting for abuse in custody decisions, calling for supervised visits when abuse is documented:
• “Why are the courts not protecting these children? …If they can go after their wife, they can go after...their children.” — Jana Kramer [34:44]

10. What She Hoped to Honor in Morgan

[39:44–40:25]

• Kramer sought to portray Morgan’s enduring love for her children and even compassion towards her abuser, highlighting true resilience and grace.

11. Advice for Survivors and Women

[41:02–42:12]

• The red flag isn’t just violence, but also when your reality is being twisted and doubted.
• “Listen to yourself... If they’re making you question your own reality...that is a red flag.” — Jana Kramer [41:33]
• Validate your own instincts, and don’t let someone make you doubt your core self.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s the years of the mental abuse that just breaks down...that woman...really not knowing your reality and then being kind of stuck...losing your voice in it.” — Jana Kramer [06:00]
• “How come you can’t get out? It’s like...I have to protect my kids too, in this.” — Jana Kramer [08:57]
• “I never got to speak to my abuser in court...I wish I would have had that healing moment.” — Jana Kramer [09:59]
• “It started with a lot of body comments...to a push, to a shove, to choking...alienating me from friends...” — Jana Kramer [15:00]
• “Through your story, I was able to get so much healing that I didn’t even know I needed...” — Jana Kramer [26:30]
• “Why are the courts not protecting these children?” — Jana Kramer [34:44]
• “When they are making you question your reality, that is a red flag.” — Jana Kramer [41:33]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:25] — Introduction to Morgan Metzer’s story and the film adaptation
• [05:19] — Jana discusses the impact of reading the script and its parallels to her own life
• [13:09] — Jana shares her personal history of abuse
• [23:47] — Discussing therapy and the emotional risks of filming traumatic scenes
• [28:25] — The real-life impact the film is having on viewers
• [29:05] — Escalation of abuse after separation and court system shortcomings
• [39:44] — On what Kramer wanted to honor in portraying Morgan
• [41:33] — Advice for women: Trusting your instincts and recognizing gaslighting

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a powerful testimony to the reality and complexity of domestic abuse and the importance of telling survivor stories. Jana Kramer’s honesty about both pain and healing offers hope, and her advocacy highlights where systemic change is still needed. The takeaway: believe yourself, trust your instincts, and know you’re not alone.

Resources Mentioned:

• Gaslit by My Husband: The Morgan Metzer Story (streaming on Netflix & Lifetime)
• Wind Down with Jana Kramer (iHeartRadio podcast)

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Transcript

[Jana Kramer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Jana Kramer]

What the hell is this place?

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Only three letters describe they will kill you. Wtf?

[Jana Kramer]

Splendid.

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[Jana Kramer]

Are you ready to die?

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[Jana Kramer]

How many of you are there?

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It begs to be seen in a packed theater.

[Jana Kramer]

Please remember to clean up the blood.

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Thriller with your host, Alisa Donovan.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Hey everyone, Elisa Donovan here. And this is Killer Thriller. Today we're talking about a true story that is absolutely chilling because it starts in a place where many people naturally feel safe inside a marriage gaslit by my husband. The Morgan Metzer Story tells the real life story of Morgan Metzer, a woman whose husband began abusing her both physically and mentally and refused to let go even after she left him. Faked cancer, threatening messages, psychological warfare. And then in the middle of the night, a masked intruder breaks, breaks into her home, beats her, sexually assaults her and leaves her tied up outside. The twist police would eventually discover that the terrifying stranger Morgan feared was allegedly her own ex husband all along. It is a doozy. Jana Kramer stars as Morgan in the film and is also an executive producer on the project. Jana, thank you so much for being here today with me.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh my gosh, of course. I just love you. So thank you for having me.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Thank you so much. I, I am a very big fan of yours also. And this movie is, it's very, very, very powerful and it's very, very, very well done.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So I really appreciate you spending this time today to talk about it. So this story is so upsetting for every reason, but especially because it this one attack and this one event. It's a long, twisted psychological campaign that this man did to his wife. So what was your first reaction when you read what Morgan's husband allegedly put her through?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, I love working with Lifetime and I started to find my voice in some of the conversations and then telling them the kind of movies that I want to make, movies that I relate to that I'm passionate about. And you know, I, I said I, I'm a DV survivor and I would like to work and do movies around that and empowering women, helping, helping other women find their voice in these situations. And I remember the president saying of Lifetime at the Time. She's like, we actually came across a story that is wild, and it's very big on gaslighting and not knowing your reality. And she's like, you know, I'm gonna send you the script. And I remember reading it just being, like, seeing the similarities, too, and not just within my story, but in all the, you know, victims, survivor stories that I've heard. You know, it just. It has that same note of, am I the crazy one? And do I deserve this? I must deserve this. And it's just kind of, you know, reading the script and then, you know, speaking to Morgan as well, hearing more of her story, and then just the years of abuse and. And that's the piece, too. It's like, yes, the physical abuse is terrible, and it's awful, but it's the years of the mental abuse that just breaks down, though, you know, that woman. Sometimes men as well, but of just really not knowing your reality and then being kind of stuck in the. Like, losing your voice in it. And. And it's just wild. I mean, to ha. To have your own husband stage this, you know, abuse and then coming to the rescue, like the hero faking cancer. I mean, just. All of it is just so sick.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

It's. It's fiercely sick. And that part, the title, Gaslit by my husband, obviously refers to all of that. How she questions her own reality and how, you know, he blames her for everything that happens in her marriage. And can you. Do you know how long she. That she went through that and how long she was putting up with it before she.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Said I want out?

[Jana Kramer]

I mean, she. They were high school sweethearts, and, you know, they talked a little bit on that. But, you know, she would say there were signs along the way, of course. Right. Like, I think that's one of the things that's hard is we see the signs, but we go, oh, that's just them maybe having too much to drink, or we make excuses for their behavior. I know. I mean, we all can fall into that pattern very easily. And with her losing Kevin, their child, and that's something too. I actually just texted her because I'm like, girl, we made it to number three in the movies on Netflix. And she's just like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. She's like, kevin actually would have been 15 today. So, you know, I was like, oh, Kevin. Oh, my gosh. I know. Sweet Kevin. So it's just, you know, when you lose. I've never lost a baby, so I don't know this piece, and I pray I never have to feel this piece. But there's that strain. And, you know, she said that also affected him, too, you know, and so things progressively got worse within that. And. But really, it is the words that kept getting worse and worse. And that's where the. The doubting of, like, am I crazy? What is wrong with me? And then, you know, once you become a mom, it's really hard to get out.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yes.

[Jana Kramer]

You know, it's difficult. That's the moment where you're just. And that's, you know, so many people are like, oh, he's treating you this way. How. How come you can't get out? It's like, why I have to protect my kids, too, in this.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And you want to maintain some normalcy for them, the family unit and. Yeah, all of this, like, there. The separate getting out of something like that is so complicated. Even when there isn't something violent happening, even if it's just not working, you know, it's. It's so complex.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, but it's a slow burn with men like that, you know, and then that's what just makes the woman go crazy.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Right. So do you speak to her often? Then? You guys just were texting. I love this.

[Jana Kramer]

Well, I just wanted to congratulate her. But also, you know, she shared a very. This is her. This is her true. You know, this is her life, and this is her true story. So I remember speaking to her before filming the movie because there was a few pieces that I wanted to make sure, you know, I wanted to know how, you know, how she acted in this or how she felt in this, so I could bring pieces of that. Of her into the movie. And one of the pieces that I didn't do, though, was the courtroom scene. She said that she didn't shed one tear and that she just stayed really strong, which is amazing. And I. I told the director, I said, hey, I talked to Morgan about the courtroom scene, and I said, I'm going to have a really hard time not crying because I never got to speak to my abuser in court. When we went to our, like, hearing, I was on the stand and I said my piece, but I never got to speak directly to him. And I said, you know, I've. There's a piece of me that needs that. I wish I would have had that healing moment. I said, so I'm really. I want to honor Morgan, and I want to not cry and be really strong. I go, but my own past is coming up, and I don't know how I'm going to be able to not, like, have that emotion because so much of this story and being abused and it's like, you know, again, I'm trying to really, like, keep it Morgan, but unfortunately, there's pieces in my past, and the director was like, she goes, just. She's like, don't. She's like, I, I. It's sweet that you want to honor Morgan in this piece of it. She's like, but I need you to go up there and just feel, however, like you would feel in this moment. So that's where it's like, we did one take, and it was. She was like, that's, that's it. And so that was the one part where I got so much healing selfishly in that moment, too. And so, you know, I, I did text Morgan after that. We texted after the movie premiered on Lifetime, and then with it going number three on the top 10 of Netflix, I just text her and I said, hey, I'm really proud of you for sharing your story. You know, congrats, you know, for being top three. I said, I know this is probably a painful lens again to have it spotlight spotlighted, but I said, at the same time, I said, you're helping so many women maybe see the crazy making in their own relationship. And so just, you know, to try to highlight, congratulate, and say I'm sorry and be like, but you're helping people.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah, I feel like, you know, so much of what happens on this podcast is obviously talking about very difficult things and traumatic things that have happened to people, to real human beings. And I'm always so moved by people's ability to turn their trauma into something that is useful. You know, like, we can't. We don't often get to choose some things that happen to us, but we do get to choose what we do with them. And I think it's so courageous for that, with that both of you doing this and, you know, giving voice and not hiding these things because there's still, you know, I think people need to understand how difficult that is. And, you know, I really admire that you are able to talk about your past and would you mind just sharing what your experience was, what happened to you?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, sure. And, you know, and she said, well, when I texted her, though, I just. This is. She goes, it's so crazy. This is insane. I actually rewatched it last night. I've only seen it twice now. It was a little emotional, but also very inspiring. And then I just said, how are your kids? But, yeah, then, then she said, kevin would have been 15 yesterday. So it's just crazy, too. Like, on his birthday, they released it on Netflix. I don't know, it's just. There's so many threads in that too, you know, Wild. But, yeah. So for me, I met my abuser when I was 19 in Los Angeles, and he was a lot older than I was, and. But he was the most charming man. And I really. I just got stuck in such an unhealthy relationship. I. I made a really stupid mistake. I went to Vegas and married him after only two weeks of knowing him. And I didn't then know how to get out of that. You know, he had disappeared for a while. He said his dad died, but his dad never died. I did a. I was doing a movie in Romania. I got really sick. He took care of me. Once he, you know, came back from his dad dying, which, again, he never died. And, you know, I was like, okay, let's just kind of table the. The marriage thing. Let me just date. I'd like to get to know you. And. And from there, it was. It started with a lot of body comments. I was over. I was not overweight. I was heavier than I was. I was about 30 pounds heavier. And he would, you know, call me fat. And he would. He started to really just kind of tear my confidence down. And then it was a push to a shove, to choking, to alienating me from friends. He kicked me out of the place we were living in. A lot of choking, a lot of hitting, and I just did not know how to get out. I was too ashamed to tell anyone that I married this man. And how could I tell my family that I married some man I didn't even know at the time? You know, he said he was influential in the entertainment world. He said he would ruin my career. And I didn't want that to happen. So I just continued to stay in this abusive pattern. And. But it was always my fault. It was because I, you know, I remember I got beat up because I bought milk and we didn't have enough money to buy milk. Or it was that I had bought Tylenol because I had a headache and, you know, he would beat me for that. And the stairwell of the Archstone Apartments because I bought Tylenol. But it was always a. Well, you were bad and, you know, you deserve this, right? And then, yeah, it was. I mean, it was awful. And that went on for a little over a year. And then, you know, one of the nights he tried to. He said he was going to kill me. He was going to get his gun and kill me. I ended up hiding, going to a neighbor's house, calling the cops. But I. He sent me a picture of my dogs on the 405 Freeway. And he said, if you don't come home, I'm going to release the dogs on the expressway or on the freeway. And so I went back to, you know, the place, said I was sorry. Was with him that night, like, you know, intimate with it. I mean, it's just wild how, you know, the. The. They just make you feel like it's all your fault. And I was pleading, I'm so sorry. And then a couple weeks later, it happened again. And he said he was gonna kill me. And. And then he left. I thought he had gone. And then I just, like, screamed for my friend that was in the guest room and. Or the guest house. And then I ran out, and I saw him. He had his hand behind his back, and I was like, oh, my God, he's going to kill me. This is it. And I just started, like, pleading, like, please, no. Please, no. And he put a rock in front of the gate and threw me under the ground, started beating me up. And then he had put his hand to my temple. And I realized it was just his hand and it wasn't a gun. So I'm like, okay, he doesn't have a gun. But it was. I mean, just choking. I was trying to, like, gouge his eyes or just try to, like. You know, I had one, like, free arm. I've got scrapes on my arm. I have a little dent on my left shoulder from trying to get out from under this man. And. And, yeah, and he. I just remember seeing. I screamed out one time. I had. Was able to, like, breathe. I just said, my mom. Like, please, no, my mom. And he was. You know, this was actually in the police recording, but he was like, your mom? And I just saw my funeral. I saw my grandpa. I saw who's dead, where I, like, prayed to him. I said, please make it so bad that I. I have to leave, you know, because I just didn't know how to get out. I was like, please just make it so bad that I have no choice but to leave. And. And, yeah, and then he. The next thing I know, like, I. So I. I had, like.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Was there no one around? You were in a.

[Jana Kramer]

No, this was, like, three in the morning. It was a house in Winnetka, off of Winnetka and Woodland Hills.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Oh, okay.

[Jana Kramer]

And it was. My best friend Lisa was, like, in the guest house. But at this point, I mean, I could. Was like barely could scream, you know, every time I could, I'm like down the driveway and it was a really long driveway and, and yeah, and then he was just choking me and I, I believe that I just kind of like lost like consciousness in that moment. And he probably thought that I died or something, but I think I just from like the hyperventilating, like passed out. And then when I was gone, he was, he was away. I called 911 and that's when the cops came and they put out a warrant for his arrest. They saw all the text messages, you know, saying that he was going to kill me and the whole thing. And then they put out a warrant for his arrest.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Oh my God.

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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

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is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. Bring the good with Avocados from Mexico. Upgrade your meals, your get togethers, even your everyday life. Give your moments a little glow up. Be the one everyone's glad showed up. Because avocados from Mexico spark the joy with every bite. And by the way, they're good for you too. So elevate your everyday. Bring the good flavor. So rich and craveable.

[Avocados from Mexico Announcer]

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[Public Podcast Announcer]

Always good.

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Critics and audiences agree.

[Jana Kramer]

What the hell is this place?

[Avocados from Mexico Announcer]

Only three letters describe they will kill you. Wtf? Splendid USA Today calls it bloody and bunkers.

[Jana Kramer]

Are you ready to die?

[Avocados from Mexico Announcer]

IGN declares it's electrifying action Cinema and popcorn. Entertainment to the max.

[Jana Kramer]

How many of you are there?

[Avocados from Mexico Announcer]

It begs to be seen in a packed theater.

[Jana Kramer]

Please remember to clean up the blood.

[Public Podcast Announcer]

Wow.

[Avocados from Mexico Announcer]

They will kill you. Only in theaters tomorrow. Rated R Under 17 not admitted without

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[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

First of all, I just. I'm incredibly sorry that that happened to you and I'm really, really so glad to see you sitting here today and healthy and away from him. So. But doing this movie must have been I mean, there are so many par. It was so many things like, how was that for you?

[Jana Kramer]

It was really hard. I talked to my therapist about it and I said, I, I said, I have two fears. I said, the, the one fear is I said, I've been dealing with this and doing therapy and post traumatic stress, you know, all the things. Emdr, eye movements, like taking medication because I couldn't leave. I was so afraid to be out in public because I was afraid I was. He was going to be there. Even though I knew he was in prison, but I was still always afraid of him. And, you know, so I numbed myself on Zoloft for a long time just because that was the only way that I was able to, like, get out of the house. And then I was on Lexapro and, And then, you know, but for this movie, I said, I'm afraid. What if I have no emotion because I've just completely boxed it away.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

And then I said, and then what if I can't control my emotion too? You know, where it just comes back and then it re. Triggers everything in my body. And I was like, I don't know what to do. And I, I remember the attack scene and I told Austin, and I'm so glad it was Austin because he, I love him like he is. He was my scene partner in One Tree Hill. And I just, like, I felt so protected in him, but it was the moment when he was on top of me. And that's like in, in any instance, like, if someone's like too on top of me, I, I get that. Like, get the.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Out.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, I'm like, get. Get off of me. Like. And I, and I got that. And there was a scene where he put the pillow over my, over my face. And I felt like I couldn't breathe again. And I, I lost it. I mean, I, I. And I pushed him off me, so. And he was like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, no. And then. But I, I went outside and I just started bawling in the director. And I was like, I'm sorry. It just like it hit the cord and it was too close to home. Like, I just need a minute. And it was so. It was really tough. And, you know, I'm thankful that my very healthy, supportive husband was, you know, there with me and, and was an amazing support for the movie. My therapist, you know, I had a few calls with her, but I kept circling back to, why am I telling the story? And through it, you know, I told Morgan this too. I said through Your story. I was able to get so much healing that I didn't even know I needed to heal from. I thought all the years of therapy was enough. And I said, but it wasn't until I finished this because I found my voice again. Through it, I was able to fight Austin back. And, you know, like, he was like, I got to fight back, get power, and then stand in front of him and go, no, like, like I'm, I am stronger in this moment. And that's where that courtroom scene when I said thank you, it was my thank you to him being like, you didn't kill my soul. Like, thank you for giving me a purpose. You know, in, in this. You know, we didn't have kids together, but he gave me this purpose to be able to help other people through it. And that was, that was the silver lining of it. And that was. Though the attack scene was really difficult. It was the, in the end, I got to, I found my voice through it, and I got, I got to take the power back in something that I didn't even know I needed.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

That is incredible. You know, I, I, I always not to get too, you know, woo, woo. But as actors, I really feel like one of the most important. From the time I started doing this, I felt like it is such a, it can be such a noble craft, and we can really do things that are much bigger than the actual, you know, it just, it's on another level. And this certainly feels like one of those experiences. It's really powerful. And, you know, your work is just extraordinary in it. It's very. You're so good. And as the whole. Austin as well.

[Jana Kramer]

I love him. He's just the best.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

That's must have made things easier. Did you bring him on? Did you?

[Jana Kramer]

They had given me a list of, of dudes, and I said, please get Austin just because I really wanted someone safe.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Sure.

[Jana Kramer]

In that. With me, you know, if I didn't really know the person and, And Austin, you know, we've been in scenes where I've cried before and done, you know, the emotional stuff. And so it was just really. And we're, we're friends. You know, we're still friends to this day. We're still working on, we're trying to work on a comedy at the moment. I'm like, we need to do something a little lighter. Like, this is like in a Christmas movie.

[Redfin Announcer]

I know.

[Jana Kramer]

So, you know, but that was, you know, I'm so grateful. And then, you know, I got to have the hair and make it people that I love and you know, like just the people that I'm like this as cozy as possible. Yeah, yeah. So that's what I loved. And then of course, my family came. My daughter was in the movie, you know, so she played my daughter.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Oh, really?

[Advertisement Announcer (e.g., NYX or Mint Mobile)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

I didn't know that. Yeah. So that's my daughter in it. And so, you know, that also made it, you know, nice to have her in it. So. But it was great. And I just, I'm so thankful because, you know, even getting the messages now, obviously Netflix brings a whole set of new eyes and it's so many women going like, that was my story. And I got out and this is. And not many women get to get out of those situations. You know, there's. Whether they don't, there's still lack of resources. And so I'm just, I'm grateful that stories like this are being told because if they're not able to get out now, hopefully they can see the pattern in which is not Right. Right.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And that it's not going to change

[Jana Kramer]

for the better and you're gonna end up like, hopefully not like a Gabby or, you know, and that's where it comes to. And I was just on a call where I said, because people don't understand why you don't leave. And I'm like you. They make you feel like it is you. So it's. They're. You're gonna leave either from them killing you or, you know, you're gonna stay in it, unfortunately, until you get that moment. And that's. Some people don't get that moment.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

This case really also gets at how domestic abuse can keep escalating even after

[Jana Kramer]

the woman leaves that control from that man. You know, like he wanted to control her. He did not like that she was free and that she was confident. And he, when, when a man like that loses control, I mean, look at the lengths that he went to say, I have cancer, I'm dying, you know, I'm a hero.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I mean, it's diabolical. And then at the same time, not covering one of the things that I thought was so interesting and so either short sighted or narcissistic that some of the, the footage of him when he's buying the, the. The handcuff. This. What are they called?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

But yeah, what he makes the, you know, fashions handcuffs out of. Everyone in the store is wearing a mask because it's Covid except for him. So they have this like very obvious evidence of this man walking into a Lowe's and purchasing the things that he will then Abuse his wife with like.

[Jana Kramer]

It's just he clearly doesn't watch any of those crime shows because don't you know, there are cameras everywhere, like, Amazon it, bro, or something.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. Oh, my God. So one other thing that's in the. I was going to ask specifically about. Yeah. So one of the points in the film, they show how Rodney spent a lot of time trying to turn the kids against Morgan. And then there's a moment when they really say, no, it's your fault, dad. Do you know if that's true? Is that accurate?

[Jana Kramer]

It is accurate, yeah. Because I think too, when kids start to see they're at that age, they were starting to also witness, like, no, no, no, you know, like, this isn't. This isn't right. And that it's so dangerous too. And being in a separated, A separation, the parents talking to the kids and trying to manipulate that relationship, even within divorce stories, is awful. And it's like one of the worst ways. Forms of manipulation. And to, to do it to the kids is. Is another, Another level.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

It really is. It's heartbreaking. And then, you see, that's how these cycles continue. Then kids view that if they don't start to understand what's wrong, like it just continues that abusive idea, or they think, oh, that's how married people act. That's. That's the sort of, you know, reflection that I have of what a marriage is. It's just devastating.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So what do you hope that the movie changes about how people think about that specific period? Like the danger period between after the separation or the divorce? Like, what do you hope people understand better?

[Jana Kramer]

That's a good question, because I don't. I don't even think that I did anything to. I mean, yeah, I had a restraining order, but to me, I'm always like, that's a piece of paper. They can easily, you know, show up if they're gonna show up. You know what I mean? Like, I still always say, get a restraining order if you feel, because some people aren't as crazy just to. To do that, you know. But I don't know. I mean, no, I mean, she had it. She had a gun. She had, you know, she had ways to protect herself, I would probably say, in that situation. But again, you don't think that your ex husband's gonna come and kill you too, you know, making sure someone's with you on the exchanges of kid days. I mean, I'm just being really aware that these things can. I guess it's this. It's being aware that Things like this can happen. It's not just out of a movie like, yes, this is a movie and it's also real life. And it could happen to you too, if the man is still. If you have to parent with an abuser and that is the hardest. That is very hard.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

We have a very dear friend who had to do that and he took the child's life and then his own. So I know very deeply how this can go very wrong.

[Jana Kramer]

Well, and this is the, this is the piece and I'm so sorry to hear that. And this is something that I've been trying to advocate for women is that they don't really take into account abuse when it comes to court. And then they still say that the children should be with the father even when there's a be in the clear abuse. And it's. I understand the courts wanting their fathers to be in their lives, but when they are abusive, there needs to be some sort of another person with the child at the time. If there is registered and there's actual proof that they have abused the parent, the, the, the their partner. Because things like this happen and it's not okay. So to advocate for. I think it's, I don't know if that's called supervision. Supervised visits, I think.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Because that, because there are that awful stories like that. And that's where I'm like, why are the courts not protecting these children? Because they're not. If they can go after their wife, they can go after someone, something that they love too, like their children.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yes, right. And that's, that's what it is to try to hurt her further.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, I am so sorry. That is devastating.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah, I, I am too.

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[Sophia Bush]

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[Jana Kramer]

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[Jana Kramer]

Splendid.

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[Jana Kramer]

Are you ready to die?

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[Jana Kramer]

How many of you are there?

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[Jana Kramer]

Wow.

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[Redfin Announcer]

Let's talk about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much Anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it, that's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise. And Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win. Not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So to this, to that, like, what. What do you think was most important for you to get right about Morgan? To sort of do her justice and the situation? What. What was most important for you?

[Jana Kramer]

I would say it was to just really show her her love for her kids, you know, and that she. Even with the loss of Kevin and even with, you know, the things that she had to go through, she still showed compassion and love, even towards Rodney. Even post divorce, she still was like, put a smile. She. She was. She was still resilient. She was still loving. And I think that's a beautiful thing when, you know, you have children and you're still trying to make something work, even when someone was so ugly to.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Right, right.

[Jana Kramer]

And just showing her strength in that.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

There is something incredibly powerful and beautiful about that. And, you know, it's like taking back the power from that person, you know, in forgiveness can really be that. I. I'm. I'm sort of in awe of that whole idea.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Like letting him sleep on the couch. Like, we're not. But you can sleep on my couch. You know, if you need a play, you know, if you, like, this is okay. And that shows love. Like someone that can abuse you. And then you go, you can sleep on my couch. Like, that's a beautiful woman.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Right. Well, what do you hope that women watching this movie. We talked a little bit about this, but. But what do you hope that they take from her story? Especially if there's something that feels off, not right, manipulative. You know, we said in the beginning we often as women are like, well, it's okay. We sort of give people the benefit of the doub or kind of let things slide. Like, what. What do you want them to take away from this story? Like, listen to your friends. Listen to your instincts.

[Jana Kramer]

It's always listen to yourself. And if you have to, if they're making you question your own reality and going, wait, did I, Did I do that? Like, that is a problem. Because you know what you like, you know, like it's. And it's. When they are making you question your reality, that is a red flag.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yep.

[Jana Kramer]

You can look at yourself and go, okay, maybe I was being a little bitchy. Fine. They can, like, they can call you out for those things. But the reality of a. When they're really going at you and you know in your gut and your core who you are, what you are and how you are, and they're trying to doubt, have you doubt that. That's a reality check.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Right. That's so, so important. Well, I, I am super honored to have spoken with, you know, you. And thank you for making this movie. Thank you for speaking out as much as you do and helping women. It's, it's. We, we are all grateful to you for that.

[Jana Kramer]

Thanks.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So Gaslit by My Husband is streaming on Netflix and Lifetime, and Jana also hosts Wind down with Jana Kramer right here on Iheart, so you can listen to her there. And the movie is really wonderful. So congratulations.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you, friend. Let's do a movie together now.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah, let's do it. I would love that.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you for shedding light and for, you know, doing your podcast and bringing these stories to, to help others. Thank you. Thank you. Foreign.

[Sophia Bush]

This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. Bring the good with Avocados from Mexico. Upgrade your meals, your get togethers, even your everyday life. Give your moments a little glow up. Be the one everyone's glad showed up. Because avocados from Mexico spark the joy with every bite. And by the way, they're good for you too. So elevate your everyday. Bring the good flavor. So rich and craveable.

[Avocados from Mexico Announcer]

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[Redfin Announcer]

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[Jana Kramer]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

[Public Podcast Announcer]

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[Jana Kramer]

So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.

[Public Podcast Announcer]

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[Jana Kramer]

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[Jana Kramer]

I propose a toast to our good friend Dave. You inspired this epic guys weekend. I'm sorry you're missing it. Everyone knows that when you fly you

[Public Podcast Announcer]

need to bring a real ID or a passport. Everyone but Dave.

[Jana Kramer]

So here's the finally figuring out how to get on an airplane. Dave, we'll see you tomorrow. And I'm glad you could rebook your flight. He would have loved this restaurant.

[Public Podcast Announcer]

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[Jana Kramer]

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