Kato Kaelin: Mistakes the Prosecution made in the O.J. Simpson Trial

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kato Kaelin on Mistakes the Prosecution Made in the O.J. Simpson Trial

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode: Kato Kaelin: Mistakes the Prosecution made in the O.J. Simpson Trial
Release Date: April 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Kato Kaelin, a central figure and key witness in the O.J. Simpson trial. The conversation delves into Kaelin’s personal experience before, during, and after the trial, widespread misconceptions about his role, the prosecutorial missteps he observed, and his perspectives on how the case – and its media coverage – shaped his life and public perception of the American justice system. The discussion is rich with personal anecdotes, commentary on media and celebrity culture, and Kaelin’s thoughts on true crime’s continued resonance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Living Through the Trial: Misconceptions and Media Frenzy

• Rumors and Stereotypes

  • Kato addresses lingering misconceptions, especially the false rumors propagated by tabloid shows that he was a drug dealer due to his appearance (long hair).
  • Quote: "There was this thing back in Current Affair that I was a drug dealer. ...I've never done a drug in my entire life. I swear to God." — Kato Kaelin [03:48]

• Impact on Family and Privacy

  • He reflects on how public scrutiny and rumors hurt his family and forced him into a reclusive lifestyle during the trial.
  • "Where I lived, I had notes under the door. ...The TMZs were out there...I became an introvert. I hated it." — Kato Kaelin [06:06]

• Effect on His Daughter

  • Kaelin shares how the trial and media circus impacted his daughter Tiffany, who was a child at the time.
  • Despite the attention, he notes, "She's the greatest. Tiffany. She's amazing...she thought it was kind of cool...gives her some points. But...I couldn't really even go out." [05:17]

How the O.J. Simpson Trial Would Play Out Today

• Technological Advances in Crime Solving
  • Kaelin believes modern forensic tools and new media exposure would lead to a very different trial today: "You cannot, you can't get away with crime. ...They'll find a match somehow." [07:01]
  • He remarks on society's desensitization to violence due to constant media exposure: "I think the more people become immune to it, makes it easier for them to do it." [08:14]

Testifying During the Trial

• Personal Toll
  • Testifying was an overwhelmingly stressful experience for Kaelin.
  • Quote: "Testifying is 10 times harder because...I just wanted justice to happen. So it just destroyed my insides." [08:41]
  • Media manipulation exacerbated the situation; attempts to clear his name revealed behind-the-scenes exploitation: "Turned out to be a producer of some show trying to do it for the ratings." [09:54]

Reaction to O.J. Simpson’s Death

• Emotional Response and Empathy for Victims' Families
  • Upon hearing of O.J. Simpson’s death, Kaelin expressed sympathy for the children and those who lost loved ones.
  • Quote: "It's never for the kids...my heart goes out to the kids. ...Nicole's a beacon of light...I hope it brings closure for these beautiful people that lost their lives." [10:10]

The Lingering Trauma and Leaving Brentwood

• Avoiding Painful Places

  • Kaelin avoided Brentwood for 20 years post-trial, only returning professionally.
  • "In the time that I went to Bundy, it'd be after the trial, it was at least 20 years. I never even went in that area." [15:41]

• Reflections on O.J.’s Life After the Trial

  • Kaelin comments on O.J.’s downfall: "When you hang around bad people, bad things happen… that fall from grace...after the trial, he was a broken man." [17:37]

What Still Doesn’t Sit Right: Prosecution’s Mistakes

• DNA Evidence and Unused Testimony

  • Kaelin is troubled by the prosecution’s mishandling of crucial DNA evidence and by their failure to call key witnesses.
  • Quote: "The prosecution...were horrible about the DNA...the defense had Barry Scheck...could prove that there's contamination. ...I think that's the biggest thing...that turned the trial." [19:20]
  • He lists several witnesses and pieces of evidence that could have been used, such as:
    • Skip Junas, who saw O.J. discard something suspicious in the trash [21:35]
    • Jill Shively, who called 911 after nearly being hit by O.J.'s car, and remembered his plate and voice—her testimony was kept out due to a tabloid interview [22:05]
    • Other physical evidence (socks found with blood, blood in the washing machine) was omitted [23:04]

• Effect of Celebrity and Race

  • Kaelin believes jury decisions were swayed by O.J.'s charisma and celebrity.
  • Quote: "Like 95. Like I said, they liked him a lot. They loved. They waved and… he was charismatic guy, and he was in his films, and he was the Hertz guy...I'm not black or White. I'm O.J." — Quoting O.J. [25:06]
  • He points out how the trial's focus shifted away from evidence as it became about race: "It had spun so out of control with the racial stuff that it had become about race." [24:14]

Celebrity, Adulation, and Public Paradoxes

• Fame After the Verdict

  • Kaelin discusses a bizarre dinner scene where O.J. sought attention in public after the trial, highlighting his craving for adulation despite the scandal.
  • "He should have just gone to an island, never been heard of and seen it. ...Instead, he had bad people. He got in more crime and went to jail." [31:35]

• O.J. Simpson’s "If I Did It" Book

  • Kaelin found the book deeply unsettling.
  • Quote: "If this is not an admission sorted a guilt. I don't know what it is and how. I have no idea how the book got made. ...You felt like this man was so guilty." [32:22]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On media manipulation: "The silhouette was actually a producer of some show trying to do it for the ratings. So there's a lot of things that were happenings." — Kato Kaelin [09:54]

• On the impact of celebrity in the justice system: "O.J. didn't see himself as black. ...He said, 'I'm not black or White. I'm O.J.'" [25:11]

• On post-trial life: "I became an introvert. I hated it." [06:09]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Addressing Misconceptions / Tabloid Rumors – [03:48]
• Impact on Family & Daughter – [05:17]
• Testifying at the Trial – [08:41]
• Reaction to O.J. Simpson’s Death – [10:10]
• Avoiding Brentwood / Return Years Later – [15:41]
• Prosecution's Fumbles: Evidence & Witnesses – [19:20] / [21:35] / [22:05]
• Impact of Celebrity and Race on the Jury – [25:06]
• Reflections on O.J.'s Behavior Post-Trial – [31:35]
• Thoughts on "If I Did It" – [32:22]
• What Kato’s Doing Now: Murder in a Minute, One Degree of Scandalous – [34:10]
• True Crime Podcasting and Public Speaking – [37:54]

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Kato Kaelin Today: New True Crime Projects

• "Murder in a Minute" ([34:10])

  • Short-form video series tackling current and notorious crimes in an engaging, social-media-friendly format.
  • Example stories: The Jeffrey Epstein guard controversy, Texas high school track stabbing case.
  • Find on YouTube and Kato’s social platforms.

• "One Degree of Scandalous" ([37:54])

  • Long-form podcast, with broadcaster Tom Zenner, focusing on infamous scandals and true crime.
  • Includes site visits (e.g. Menendez house, Richard Ramirez locations), and interviews with detectives and Netflix documentary directors.

• Public Speaking & Community

  • Regular appearances for law enforcement and detective associations (e.g., Seaside Detectives Association, Monterey & Carmel).
  • Kaelin emphasizes catharsis and laughter after years of scrutiny.

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Closing Thoughts

Kato Kaelin’s perspective provides a candid, personal account of the O.J. Simpson trial’s ripple effects—on himself, the broader culture, and the justice system. He is particularly critical of the prosecution’s choices to omit critical evidence and witnesses. Today, Kaelin channels his experiences into new true crime media, aiming to illuminate and even lighten the darker aspects of notoriety and trauma through storytelling and humor.

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For further information or to follow Kato’s projects:

• [Murder in a Minute – YouTube & Social Media] ([37:01])
• [One Degree of Scandalous – YouTube] ([37:54])

Transcript

[Interviewer]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Cato Kaelin]

Guaranteed human.

[Sophia Bush]

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[Cato Kaelin]

Avocados from Mexico. Always good

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[Alisa Donovan]

Thriller with your host, Alisa Donovan.

[Interviewer]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Killer Thriller. We're jumping back into our conversation with Cato Kaelin, who ended up at the center of one of the biggest trials in history. From what that night actually felt like to how it's been portrayed ever since. There is a lot more to unpack with Cato. What he saw, what he lived through, and how he looks at all of it now. What's the one misconception that drives you the craziest? That people think, like, as a. As a public.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah, I suppose because it doesn't bother me anymore because I'm older and I'm very secure. But back then, because I saw what the pain it cost my mom, my family, that there was this thing back in Current Affair that I was a drug dealer. I've never. And I said, oh, my gosh, really? I've never even. And by the way, people will say I've never done a drug in my entire life. I swear to God. And people, because I had long hair, so it was like, oh, man. I was kind of like, I had long. But it's true. I was like, okay, and if I have a beer that's rare. I have a. Back then I maybe a beer in a month. Now I can have a beer in a week or whatever. I just don't. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

That is amazing.

[Cato Kaelin]

Which is. It's not even. It's just like, oh, my God, I'm not that. That guy. And people go, oh, I saw you. You did coke and all that. I said, no, I never proved. Prove something to me. That's true. So people want to just say things.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

So it was. That would be the thing. And I've got friends that do drugs and all that and smoke pot all the time. I have nothing against. It's their thing.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Cato Kaelin]

So I'm still friends with them.

[Interviewer]

Like, it's not. It's not me. Right. Do you have. So you have a daughter? How old's Your daughter.

[Cato Kaelin]

My daughter now is. She doesn't want to panel her age.

[Interviewer]

Oh, she doesn't. Okay. You don't have to.

[Cato Kaelin]

Oh, she's. She's in her late 30s. Late 30s.

[Interviewer]

That doesn't. She's an executive that you could considering.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Quite handsome looks.

[Cato Kaelin]

Oh, my God. She's in the car. She's in the car. Can I get.

[Interviewer]

But what does she think about all of this?

[Cato Kaelin]

She was. She's the greatest. Tiffany. She's amazing. So when she's a kid during the trial and I pick her up and not with her mom anymore, but I'd pick her up and all that. She thought it was kind of cool like that and made it because her teachers knew. The kids knew from that and they thought, okay. Gives her some points. But I say, tiff, this is. It's not good. And then the only bad part is there in this time, it was. I couldn't really even go out because at that time, it was on. It was like a. Like a Beatlemania. But people could go bad on me or good on me. And it was. It was crazy. I mean, I. Where I lived, I had notes under the door. Then I had. The TMZs were out there. It was. You have to. Back in 94, 95. It was. It was insane.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

It was insane.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So it was everything. Everywhere, all the time. There was. It was.

[Cato Kaelin]

I'm an extrovert. I became an introvert. I hated it.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I hated it.

[Cato Kaelin]

So. And then I. So when she come by for the week, weekends that I have her, it would be. We just kind of had to hang out at home, so we'd go out and all that. But it was. It was hard. So that was kind of hard on her. But she's like, greatest sense of humor and she's very funny.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So does she ask you about it now? Is it still a.

[Cato Kaelin]

No, not really. She's busy in her own stuff that goes on in life.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

She'll watch this show.

[Interviewer]

I got my own life, dad. Yeah. Do you think that people would look at the case differently today than the 90s? Do you think that we. Like, if this were to happen today, it would be a different trial.

[Cato Kaelin]

It would be a completely different trial. I mean, they would. It depends. It really is important to where the trial takes place. Like a D downtown compared to Santa Monica. I think they look at that. I think you gotta look at a trial of if it's an election year, because I think prosecutors or wherever that's going, the DAs, they all want to have it so they have a case that gets them votes. So I think that all depends. But the advancements now of technology because we do, I do shows, we've had the best people in genealogy and it's amazing because you cannot, you can't get away with crime. I think you'll. They'll find a match somehow. And we do the stories of someone in your family. You can match it up now.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Cato Kaelin]

It's just incredible. So crime is like people have to be insane. I think they want to have to be caught. Just they want to.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

I'll tell you something that's amazing because you know you're doing a crime show and I do this crime. If you go on. I'm addicted to. I find stories a lot on X Twitter. So if you just go on there, you'll be blown away how every day there's a killing you won't believe is happening. And you just go, what? Humanity is sick, right?

[Alisa Donovan]

It's.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

Stuff that you would never even. You can't believe.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I think that, I wonder if it's like are these things happening more or is it just that we have exposure to them?

[Cato Kaelin]

I think both. I think it happened more but with exposure makes it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

And I think the more people become immune to it, makes it easier for them to do it. Like, oh, it's no big thing. I'll shoot up a school. And it's. It's sort of like nothing. I mean think about it. Does anything. Could anything surprise you now? What could be. I mean Martians coming down maybe. But it's like.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Cato Kaelin]

Like I'm ready for anything now.

[Interviewer]

Right. What was harder for you, testifying or watching yourself testify later on TV?

[Cato Kaelin]

Oh, testifying is 10 times harder because I really. I don't think I've ever gone back to watching me testifying except on shows I didn't watch the. The tapes. It was testifying because I'll never forget the feeling of the attorney I had at the time of doing a 4am wake up to do a run before and getting down there. I was down there when I testified I was actually down there a lot more waiting in this room like a closet. Basically sat there waiting to see because I was on call. So I just know it screwed up my stomach big time. I'm a very high strung person and I want to make sure I did everything properly. And it just did right. Because I just wanted justice to happen. So it just destroyed my insides.

[Interviewer]

I bet.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah. And that at that time it was the hard copies and the Current affairs that would have a story all time. And when they ran that guy who used to go on all the time saying he. I sold him drug, it was whatever it was. And I would just go, oh my God, this isn't true. So I kept. Had the attorney go to the shows, have that person come face to face and I'll I want this.

[Interviewer]

So you want.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah. And. And they turn out supposedly it turned out to be a producer that was

[Interviewer]

trying to like egging him, trying to

[Cato Kaelin]

get approved in the silhouette was actually a producer of some show trying to do it for the ratings. So there's a lot of like things that were happenings.

[Interviewer]

What, how, how did you feel when O.J. died?

[Cato Kaelin]

You know, I released something every. I got. My phone was going off and all the shows when I just said what I should do, I called some, confided my really great friends and they all kind of just said, why don't you just put out your own like, right, sweet social thing. I did a 30 second and I said it's never for the kids. I said, it's never hard to lose a parent. My heart goes out to the kids. And I said, nicole's a beacon of light. And I didn't know Ron, but I'm sure that I hopefully brings closure of these beautiful people that lost their lives. And I just, I just, I think that was the right thing to say.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

And just that, I mean, this is

[Interviewer]

another piece that sort of gets lost that through all of this that you lost a friend. Like this woman was your good friend.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah, yeah. And the kids lost a mom and a dad and you know, it was sort of, you know, is it the end of it? It's the end of it with the OJ but the story will always go on with every trial and it'll always be compared to that, like I said, the template, but that's what, that's what I released there of the, you know, the beacon of light that she was. And like I said, Ron, and hope it's closure for people, which I don't think it's ever going to be closure for the Goldman family.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I would imagine.

[Cato Kaelin]

I can't answer for the Browns, but I just, I think Kim put a statement out, but.

[Sophia Bush]

This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. Bring the good with avocados from Mexico. Upgrade your meals, your get togethers, even your everyday life. Give your moments a little glow up. Be the one everyone's glad showed up. Because avocados from Mexico spark the joy with every bite. And by the way they're good for you too. So elevate your everyday. Bring the good flavor. So rich and craveable.

[Cato Kaelin]

Avocados from Mexico. Always good.

[Alisa Donovan]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Public Investing Ad Narrator]

for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures.

[Interviewer]

Oh, do you still live in Bretwood?

[Cato Kaelin]

Oh, no, I. So I don't live in Bretton.

[Interviewer]

I.

[Cato Kaelin]

Actually where you're taping right now is I walk because I'm in Toluca Lake, the most wonderful area.

[Interviewer]

Oh no, I love to.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah, it's the best. So I, I live there and I do a lot of the. This little article show you later. Just because they just said the man, the myth, your neighbor Kato Kalin, the last Luke in Times. I I love it because.

[Alisa Donovan]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you ever. Are people ever like, oh my God.

[Cato Kaelin]

Oh my God, I walk. It's like Norm from Cheers. So I go out on Riverside Drive. It's just. I love it because it's very Wisconsin because people are friendly. It's like, hey, Cato. So it makes me feel fantastic.

[Sophia Bush]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Our other studio is very. It's like right by Bundy and Greta Reed. It's very close to everything. All of it.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah. So I, I think in the time that I went to Bundy, it'd be after the trial, it was at least 20 years. I never even went in that area.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Cato Kaelin]

I just didn't diss my joints. I never did. I just didn't want to even go there. And then I got my. The one degree scandalous show. We went on the tour of everything and I even declined. I wanted the Tom Zenner's guy to do the show with. He went there with the sights on Bundy and so that was my first time doing that.

[Interviewer]

And you didn't want to do that, like go.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah, I didn't. But now. Now I did. I think it's. I. It was really healthy for me to do it. So I did it. We did the OJ and then it's so. It's so bizarre because we did the episode of Nick Reiner, Rob Reiner, and I used to run a lot. I had no idea. I used to run by Reiner's house. It's like a minute away from Rockingham. It's like a minute away. And it was that he lived in the guest house and it so we went down there, and sure enough, as soon as I was doing the stand and doing our piece, a car went by on one of those SUVs with the tinted windows, and it was the New York Post, and they did a whole interview, and I didn't know. But it's so funny how that tragedy in Brentwood. I don't get it.

[Interviewer]

Right, right. That's a lot in one.

[Cato Kaelin]

I actually Got married in May 2021 at David Zucker's house. David walked my ride down. David did Airplane.

[Interviewer]

David did, of course. Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

Naked. Scary movie. Naked guns. Naked Guns. So he walked. We did that. He lives in Brentwood. So David, you know, had OJ in all the Naked Gun movies. So during my speech, I had said, david, thank you for the use of your house and thank you for not inviting Nordberg. So that's when O.J. was living.

[Interviewer]

Right, right.

[Cato Kaelin]

And, yeah, because he's a Wisconsin guy. We're all Wisconsin.

[Interviewer]

What did you think when he was getting arrested for all the various things afterwards?

[Cato Kaelin]

That's a great question. This is so true. When you hang around bad people, bad things happen. All the people that OJ's hanging out with at that time were just like criminal people and criminal things happened. And that's why the Vegas, you know, we went to prison in Vegas. That's why that stuff happened. That's why There were some 911 calls with his daughter in Florida. There was other fights that happened. It was that fall from grace that was honestly so high. And then it just. After the trial, he was a broken man, I think. He didn't have that. He didn't have that. The people that I think adored him were not the right people that were you wanting to adore you.

[Interviewer]

Well, he probably was running out of people to adore him.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah. And I think he probably made. I mean, his pension was never touched from the NFL, and I'm sure he got autographed shows. I don't know financially how he did, but he still was making a lot of money from his pension.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Do you know, I think about his kids so much. Do you know anything about what they're doing today or how they are?

[Cato Kaelin]

I. This. The only thing I heard was that Justin was in some sort of thing going on in Vegas with the house, with not moving out. It wasn't a. It wasn't a good thing. So that's the only thing I heard. I heard Sydney was in real estate in Florida, and that's it from what I heard. But I think they're doing okay. That's no touch of me communicating with them. So that's what I've heard.

[Interviewer]

Oh, man. So, okay, after all of these years, what still doesn't sit right with you about the case itself and the trial?

[Cato Kaelin]

I think what. I think it's kind of the jury. I think that it stands out that I would think that the prosecution didn't feel like they were horrible about the DNA and how the defense had Barry Shack. And I think that he kind of could prove that, you know, there's contamination in. You know, I think that wasn't true at all. I think. I think that's the biggest thing about it that's, I think turned the trial with the DNA evidence of. It was so much against OJ but somehow this lawyer could turn it into. This is a. And so I agree.

[Interviewer]

I don't know how that happened.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah. And only because I don't take sides. I met all the detectives after all these years. I don't. I think there. There's no way they would ever try to plant evidence. I. People go, there's no. Of course it's la. It's corrupt. I just don't think that there's. There's nothing that they would have done.

[Interviewer]

That's a pretty extreme thing to do. Like when you break down what their argument, what they were saying actually happened.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's like, that is so extreme for someone to do even the most racist cop ever, like Furman. You can't. It just. It's outrageous.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah, it's pretty outrageous. And how to do it, you gotta. How. You gotta plan there to be a murder in the first place. To be there. You're on call. It comes at 5, at 4:30am to us, it's just like, no, no one would have thought this out. Crazy. You know this. I also think another thing is there was so much evidence. I think the worst part also is the evidence that the prosecution didn't use. I say this because I met all those people after the fact. I met a Skip Junas, who is the guy whose wife worked at American Airlines that night, who. Who saw O.J. he was then picking up his wife. He's parked behind the limo and he watched him go into. In the trial, I described a backpack college backpack that he didn't want me to touch to put in the luggage because I was close to her. He goes, no, I'll get that. And so that was never found. But Skip Junas saw him get out of the limo and he couldn't figure out why he put his hand this far down a Guard into the bag. And then that far down a garbage. In the garbage. You know, no one. You throw out something like this. He's down in the garbage putting this. And he worked as an advertising agency. He's a completely trustworthy. This guy. Skip Junice, one of our episodes. It's amazing. And they didn't use. They didn't use that. They didn't use Jill Shively, who saw the Bundy, the car, you know.

[Alisa Donovan]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

What was her. What was it? Yeah, yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

She didn't get used because supposedly she sold money. She got money from Hard Copy. But she's there. She called the. It's a 901 call. She called, say, I think it's a drunk driver. And then she realized she memorized the plate. And then she heard the voice. She goes. She happened to watch Naked Gun that night before. She goes, that's O.J. he had his lights off coming through the. There was the San Vicente Bundy coming up that way, and his car went up on the curb and almost hit her. So she wrote it down as a drunk driver.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God.

[Cato Kaelin]

And that was Sunday at the timeline.

[Interviewer]

Why didn't they use this?

[Cato Kaelin]

They thought it was because she sold it. That they. The defense could say that, well, she was in it for the money. She made it up. But the calls on tape. And it's sort of like those two very important witnesses were never called.

[Interviewer]

Right. And that was the same with Fay Resnick. Right. Wasn't she not able to testify or something because she sold her story? Or she.

[Cato Kaelin]

It could have been maybe. I don't remember the Faye thing, but, yeah, she would have never called.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Cato Kaelin]

I think sometimes a prosecution has their case. They, you know, they build the case. You know, you go to a grand jury, then the grand jury, then they go, okay, we can build the case. And they thought they, I think, thought they had so much evidence that they didn't need all that because they found the blood. They found these. The glove socks that. Oh, they didn't use. The socks upstairs that were. Had blood on the. All the socks because they were black socks. And they. But they. When they did it, they found they were bloody. They never use those. They found blood in the. In the washing machine. So this is all. This is all evidence that's documented, never used. Well, Tom Lang, the detective, became a friend. He has a book called Evidence withdrawn. I think it's called Evidence Dismissed. And he explains it all the evidence that they had that wasn't used. And he got upset with the prosecution.

[Interviewer]

I don't Right. I would be, too. That doesn't make any sense. When I spoke with Keith, he was saying that. That he was supposed to testify as well. And then they ultimately said no because it had spun so out of control with the racial stuff that it had become about race.

[Cato Kaelin]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

And they worried that they would use him as an example of how. Okay, well, O.J. knew that you were in a relationship with Nicole and you were there around him, and he never killed you or never hurt you, so they took him out.

[Cato Kaelin]

I mean, yeah, that. Because they saw he had sex with her, I guess, on a couch, and he was outside watching it. So I think that was part of the argument. It's like, why didn't they. Why didn't he go crazy then?

[Interviewer]

Right. Right.

[Cato Kaelin]

So. And I will never know the answer to so many things. And I. I said that on my Correct. I'm not going to correct myself, but Tom Lang does have that book out, so I. I'm pretty positive stuff about docs. It's all in there. Because I've met with him many times through the years.

[Interviewer]

Right. What do you. How much do you think celebrity had to do with this case for the jury?

[Cato Kaelin]

Like, 95. Like I said, they liked him a lot. They loved. They waved and.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

You know, he was the. You know, people. He was charismatic guy, and he was in his films, and he was the hurts guy. He was, you know, and O.J. didn't see himself as black. He's, you know, he said, I'm just. I'm not black or White. I'm O.J. so that was one of his quotes.

[Interviewer]

That's the irony of them using race as some sort of part of this is so crazy.

[Cato Kaelin]

So I think, you know, it's. I think sometimes a jury kind of goes in there. I'm. I've never been in the. In a jury, but I think you go back when you're sequestered, I think after so much time, and this is like 10 months, 10 and a half months, you're like, I gotta. We got. We have no. Nothing. We gotta. So I think they kind of go, okay, let's just get going. I'll say I agree to that.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Cato Kaelin]

Whatever.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Cato Kaelin]

So, you know, that's sort of a tough job.

[Interviewer]

I think people really. It's a very tough job.

[Cato Kaelin]

I think you got to commit to all that time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And it's impossible to know what.

[Cato Kaelin]

And you're in. This one was sequestered. They didn't get to leave. They watch tv, didn't see Family.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Sophia Bush]

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[Cato Kaelin]

Avocados from Mexico. Always good.

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[Interviewer]

I remember seeing O.J. there was a Japanese restaurant on Wilshire. I cannot remember the name of it, on Sushi. Yes. Big, right? Like, big open. Yes.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah. Up two floors, I think.

[Interviewer]

I. So I used to go in there all the time and we were sitting at the sushi bar, a friend of mine And I and O.J. came in with a woman who looked just like Nicole, blonde, thin, sort of had the same.

[Cato Kaelin]

This is a while ago.

[Interviewer]

This was like, oh, sorry. This was about a year after the verdict, after he was released. And the chefs were like, oh, hello. You know, said hi to him and all. And the rest of the restaurant just was stunned and silent. And I'm thinking about how you were saying how much he loved that adulation and people. And no one was giving him that except for the chefs were like saying hello to him and he was looking around as if people were admiring him. And I looked at this young woman and went, what on earth are you doing? Like, how could this woman be on a date with this man?

[Cato Kaelin]

Right?

[Interviewer]

And when she looked like she looked like, I just was dumbfounded. And so to your point, I feel like people get.

[Cato Kaelin]

I. Yeah. And I wonder how if she even did she know?

[Interviewer]

I mean, like, I mean, how could she not?

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah, exactly. A year after.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Cato Kaelin]

That would have been, I mean, crazy.

[Interviewer]

So very.

[Cato Kaelin]

That. Or she really likes sushi.

[Interviewer]

Or she, or she. Maybe she is like, I have got to have some of that.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh my God.

[Interviewer]

I have some, some hamachi.

[Cato Kaelin]

I heard they got great Spanish mackerel.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Alisa Donovan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Cato Kaelin]

Now, O.J. you're paying, right?

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God, it's so crazy.

[Cato Kaelin]

That's pretty insane stuff, I would think. He, he, this is the thing. He got probably the biggest break in his life. He should have been never seen. He should have just gone to an island, never been heard of and seen it. Because what happened was that he should have known that his life was never going to be the same and he should just laid low. Instead, he had bad people. He got in more crime and went to jail. And, you know, Nevada said, this is how you do it sort of thing. And he was just like he. Because he loved to be seen.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

When your ego takes over, you're in big trouble.

[Interviewer]

Yep. Yep. One last question before we talk about what your. What you're doing now. What did you think about this book of his? If I did it?

[Cato Kaelin]

Well, you know, I read excerpts from it because I was. I wanted to kind of become knowledgeable.

[Interviewer]

I'm sure somebody also has probably asked you to talk about it, but.

[Cato Kaelin]

So the parts I read, if this is not an admission sorted a guilt. I don't know what it is and how. I have no idea how the book got made. Did someone just say, we're going to make so much money in this if I did. And then the way he explained it, it was on that show. I think it was on Fox. We had Judith Reagan or whoever was the interview. The person who did the book. I think it was just like, you felt like this man was so guilty. You felt like if I did it. Well, this is what I thought, you know, and they bring up a, you know, this stuff that's going on now with the trial, because I'm getting context for the night of that. People are. I think they want the story to go on. I met the detectives. They have had over 150 detectives. I think it's O.J. simpson, only O.J. simpson. But they. They want to start doing things with Did OJ have help? And that sort of thing. So there's a story kind of happening. Oh, I think it's coming. I don't know if it'll be made or not.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cato Kaelin]

So there's a. Some. A company called me if I would do an interview. And, you know, and I just said, well, here's my opinion. And then they said, oh, it's a good that you have an opinion we're having. Other people are. Will be talking about it, so.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Cato Kaelin]

Yeah, it's a bizarre. Like I said, we started this thing. I think the story continues and continues, and if they can do a show on something, they're gonna try to.

[Interviewer]

Right, right. Well, all right, tell us what you're up to now. I know you have a new show called Murder in a Minute. Did you watch Podcast One Degree of Scandalous, Both great titles by the way. So tell us where we can find these things and what.

[Cato Kaelin]

Well, I'll tell you what. I just started this show called Murder in a Minute while we're speaking. So it's a week and my. I have a friend named Tom Mabe and those watching this world. Tom maybe's probably one of the original pranksters. Millions of followers in social media. I've been. I did a radio interview 31 years ago. He and I never lost touch from that interview with my world is making laughter. I'm all about really laughing.

[Interviewer]

You really have such a bright spirit like you truly do. You have such a lightness about you.

[Cato Kaelin]

And I love laughing. So Tom's done. You can Google after stuff that I guarantee you've seen that are hilarious. Anyways, he and I said I got this idea that I think it's just. It's not hilarious. It's just so part of what's going on in the world. It's called Murder in a Minute. So you do these short form videos and I shot seven, six of them and they just. I posted one social media and it just took off and now I'm seeing the comments of people going is this do more, do more. So now is it a narrative?

[Interviewer]

Like what is it? Tell me what's.

[Cato Kaelin]

So I. I sit like we're here with the green screen. I just do I. One of the stories is that's doing really great is I talk about Epstein and I said the Tova Noel is the guard who they found out had a $5,000 check and they found out that. That she was a security guard. And then her and her partner I guess supposedly went up. Prosecutors saw they fudged the numbers on their. Their duty of checking at night the scene. So we go. I go did he commit suicide? I sort of ask a question to the audience. You have to see it. We do the one on Austin Metcalf was the in Frisco, Texas at the swap at the track meet who was stabbed by Carmelo Anthony in the. You know he had a twin and he was this good looking kid. He got it right in the heart.

[Interviewer]

And it was Carmelo Anthony on the basketball player.

[Cato Kaelin]

Carmel Anthony is the other guy's name too. Oh it's different.

[Interviewer]

I was like spelled Carmelo missed this

[Cato Kaelin]

Carmelo with a K on this one.

[Interviewer]

Okay, okay.

[Cato Kaelin]

So it was at a high school track meet. And so the guy had a knife in his backpack because he was sitting in the Austin in the story to say he was sitting in the other team's tent and Austin asked him to leave.

[Interviewer]

Oh my God.

[Cato Kaelin]

And it got to gotten such anger that he did this. So now it's going to trial. So I said, as one family prepares for a funeral, the other prepares for a murder trial. Once again, it'll be a huge trial in Texas.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Cato Kaelin]

It's so these stories. And you kind of can tell the stories because there everybody's interested on social media on these stories and murder in a minute. And Tom's in Louisville, but he flies out every other week. And we just tape here in Toluca Lake.

[Interviewer]

And so we can find this on right now.

[Cato Kaelin]

Well, we're gonna YouTube, you guys go murder minute. And you can go also on my social media, Catocalin on Instagram and Twitter. And after this, I have two companies that I'll meet with and Thomas companies because he has influencers to do. And it's a break for him because he wants to do something different from all the comedy. So that's the thing that's going on. And honestly, it's. I'm so proud. It's really, really well done. And I'm just saying because I'm in it, it's just great, compelling. So I'm gonna make you watch one.

[Interviewer]

I will. I definitely will. Of course I will.

[Cato Kaelin]

Then, then I do a long podcast, which is usually an hour show. And we do. It's called One Degree of Scandalous. It's a Tom Zenner and Tom is a broadcaster. He was NBC Sports in Chicago, Boston, the News in Phoenix. So he's sort of the play by play. And I'm the color on the.

[Interviewer]

Got it.

[Cato Kaelin]

And that's on YouTube. It's called one degree scandalous and that's doing great with subscriptions. And.

[Interviewer]

And that's about something scandalous that's scant.

[Cato Kaelin]

Well, no, that's pretty much murder. But we talk about current and past. So we do. We so like the Menendez. We actually go to the sites of where the Menendez brothers went from the house that whole night. And we go to the sites of Richard Ramirez. We people love that. We actually go out and go to the actual site and say, this is where he ate. This is the night. So we go there, but then we go in studio and we talk about it. And then we get most of the directors from Netflix series or we will get detectives that were interviewed in the series. And once again, people love, love that there's the true crime and we're speaking right to the. To the people that are part of. That's why Tom Lang from the Simpson trial has done my show a few times and my relationship is, became great friends and we did a public speaking. I've gotten two engagements. We did the Seaside Detectives Association, Monterey and Carmel. So kind of near you.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

And it was like so cathartic that I was speaking to detectives and police and they, they loved it.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah.

[Cato Kaelin]

And I'm sure, I mean, yeah, it was. And then we had Tom Lang as this detective who did the Hillside Strangler. He did part of the, what was the Val Kilmer but the up on Wonderland.

[Interviewer]

Oh, Wonderland.

[Cato Kaelin]

So we did all this and we go there and I, I love doing it. So we, we do those twice a week and.

[Interviewer]

Great.

[Cato Kaelin]

I will definitely Murder in a minute. I'm so proud because this is my, my, my baby that I've been thought, thought about for a long time.

[Interviewer]

Amazing. Well, congrats. I am so

[Cato Kaelin]

John Kato.

[Interviewer]

I am so happy to officially really meet you and I really appreciate you taking the time to come here and talk with me. And I am definitely checking out Murder in a minute and one degree of scandalous. And the People v. O.J. simpson, America Crime Story is still streaming on Hulu. Wow, Kato, you're grand. Thank you so much.

[Cato Kaelin]

You're fantastic too. I'm so glad we met. This is fantastic.

[Interviewer]

Give me those feet now that I won't be able to stand up.

[Cato Kaelin]

She's wonderful. Thanks for having me.

[Sophia Bush]

This is Sophia Bush from work in progress with Sophia Bush. Bring the good with avocados from Mexico. Upgrade your meals, your get togethers, even your everyday life. Give your moments a little glow up. Be the one everyone's glad showed up. Because avocados from Mexico spark the joy with every bite. And by the way, they're good for you too. So elevate your everyday. Bring the good flavor. So rich and craveable.

[Cato Kaelin]

Avocados from Mexico, always good.

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Cato Kaelin]

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.