Killer Thriller Docu: Abducted in the Middle of the Night by A Complete Stranger but Police Called Her the Real Life “Gone Girl”

Summary

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Killer Thriller Docu: Denise Huskins, “Abducted in the Middle of the Night” — The Real-Life “Gone Girl”

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present | Host: Jennifer Fessler | Guest: Denise Huskins
Episode Date: May 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This gripping episode centers on the infamous 2015 abduction of Denise Huskins, which became the subject of the Netflix docuseries “American Nightmare.” Host Jennifer Fessler conducts an in-depth interview with Denise, delving beyond the harrowing crime itself into Denise’s emotional journey, her and partner Aaron Quinn’s brutal treatment by law enforcement, and their ongoing work to reform policing practices, support survivors, and advocate for systemic change. Denise candidly discusses trauma, resilience, public perception, and the fight to reclaim her narrative from media sensationalism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nightmare Unfolds: The Case & Its Depiction

• Initial Crime Recap

  • On March 23, 2015, Denise Huskins was abducted from the home she shared with Aaron Quinn, who was tied up and sedated. Denise was held hostage for 48 hours ([03:17]).
  • Vallejo PD labeled the case a hoax, likening Denise to the protagonist in “Gone Girl,” fueling a media frenzy and infamy ([03:17-05:00]).
  • The Netflix docuseries “American Nightmare” recounts both the crime and the aftermath, particularly the suspicion and mistreatment from police.

• Purposeful Storytelling

  • Denise and Aaron only agreed to participate in the documentary after first writing their own book, wanting the portrayal to “highlight the bigger picture... systemic flaws in the interrogation tactics,” not just sensationalize their trauma ([45:37], [46:38]).

2. Aftermath & Systemic Abuse by Law Enforcement

• Brutal Interrogations & the “Reid Technique”

  • Aaron Quinn was subjected to an 18-hour, guilt-presumptive interrogation involving psychological pressure and degradation, including being stripped naked and lied to by police ([09:09]–[20:00]).
  • Authorities were fixated on a “confirmation bias”—presuming Aaron guilty and using “the goal to get a confession,” a standard but deeply flawed approach ([09:56]).

• Police Deceit and Family Trauma

  • Law enforcement lied to Aaron’s family, including his FBI agent brother (“he’s had a psychotic break,” “we think he killed her”) and kept family members from advocating for him ([15:02]–[18:02]).
  • “Police are allowed to lie,” Denise pointed out, highlighting a critical aspect of American policing that led to profound trauma ([14:05]).

• Impact on Both Families

  • Both families suffered immensely, the “bomb goes off” in “wrongful accusations” scars more than the immediate victims ([22:30], [22:52]).
  • Denise reflects on her own parents’ pain and “restraint” during the media circus: “There’s so much pressure and a lot of impact... People, you’re a mom, you’re a brother, you can feel these things that happen” ([22:44]–[24:47]).

3. Surviving Trauma: Denise’s Experience in Captivity

• Mindset During Abduction

  • Denise describes counting turns in the car trunk, identifying her captor’s car type by sound, and working to “hold on to [her] sanity” as the kidnapping unfolded ([25:37]–[27:07]).
  • Her training as a physical therapist gave her tools to manage the physiological trauma response: “I tried to teach people how to calm their breathing... those techniques helped me stay grounded” ([27:07]).
  • The instinct for “restraint” and “paying attention” became Denise’s survival strategy, out of both necessity and trauma expertise.

• Resilience & Strength Realized

  • “People are stronger than they know,” she asserts, recounting how ordinary resilience manifests in crisis ([29:59]).
  • Denise often shares her story with her PT patients when appropriate, helping others connect the dots between trauma and physical pain ([31:13]–[33:10]).

4. Media, Victim-Blaming, and the “Gone Girl” Narrative

• Accusations Rooted in Sexism and Pseudoscience
  • Law enforcement questioned Denise’s character, referencing her past childhood abuse in an accusatory manner. A detective told her mother, “people who’ve been assaulted before might want to relive the thrill of it” ([33:28], [34:25]).
  • The “Gone Girl” comparison warped public perception, with Denise ridiculed for being both “too emotional” and “not emotional enough” ([36:21]).
  • Denise notes that whatever reaction she gave would have been pathologized: “If I was dramatic and showed more emotion... if I had physical injuries, they would have said I did it to myself” ([37:14]).

5. The Break in the Case & Lasting Impact

• Breakthrough Thanks to Persistent Detective

  • Detective Misty Caruso cracked the case by focusing on a blond hair on a pair of goggles in another home invasion. Her tenacity when others deemed the case closed ultimately vindicated Aaron and Denise ([38:19]–[41:10]).
  • The Huskins/Quinn and Caruso families are now close; their daughters even play together ([41:10]–[41:46]).

• Long-Term Emotional & Societal Ramifications

  • Exposure via the documentary and book brought new opportunities to advocate, but also returned Denise to therapy (EMDR) from resurfaced trauma ([49:16], [50:05]).
  • “When police target and falsely accuse and wrongfully convict, it's not just that one person. It destroys families” ([22:30]).

6. Advocacy, Healing, and Ongoing Efforts for Change

• Promoting Trauma-Informed Policing

  • Denise and Aaron now engage with law enforcement and advocacy groups, working to reform interrogation tactics and educate on the trauma response ([47:07], [49:05]).
  • The response since “American Nightmare” has included international reach and direct invitations from police agencies to speak and collaborate for the first time.

• Connecting with Other Advocates

  • Denise is part of the “Crime Unfiltered Tour” alongside other survivors and exonerees such as John Ramsey and Nicole Schmidt (Gabby Petito’s mom), supporting survivor voices and awareness-building ([57:09]–[59:19]).

• Living with Unanswered Questions

  • Denise is open about never fully knowing the scope of the harm done by her assailant or whether others were involved, owing to police mishandling and lost evidence ([60:46]–[62:41]): “Most victims of violent crime are never fully going to get the answers.”

• On Apologies and Accountability

  • Only one FBI agent involved ever apologized to Denise and Aaron in person; “Mustard” and other key officers have never offered acknowledgment ([62:51]–[63:09]): “Having someone look you in the eye and say I’m sorry...is huge.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Surviving Trauma:

  • “You're just trying to make sense of it, and you're really, like, literally needing to live second by second and pay attention to any little thing.”
    — Denise Huskins ([25:37])

• On Law Enforcement Misconduct:

  • “You grow up thinking you're innocent until proven guilty in this country. But then this technique, they basically go through kind of a pseudoscience initial read...Then go in with the goal to get a confession.”
    — Denise Huskins ([09:56])

• On Public Narrative & Blame:

  • “It didn't matter what I did, what I said...if I was dramatic...if I had physical injuries...they would have said I did it to myself. So I was able to release that, like, self blame that I was holding onto.”
    — Denise Huskins ([37:15])

• On Finding Strength:

  • “People are stronger than they even know...it’s incredible what the human body can do.”
    — Denise Huskins ([29:59])

• On Advocacy:

  • “We want to work with law enforcement...We need law enforcement. But we need good law enforcement with good training who understand the trauma response.”
    — Denise Huskins ([47:07])

• On the Importance of Human Connection:

  • “After Covid and like we live in such a social media, like digital world and human, like, we need each other...we need to laugh and cry and feel like we're not alone in this world.”
    — Denise Huskins ([59:08])

• On Apology and Closure:

  • “Having someone look you in the eye and say I’m sorry, of course, is, like, so huge. And all the main players, the chief...just can’t and won’t.”
    — Denise Huskins ([63:09])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:17]: Introduction and summary of the “American Nightmare” case and Netflix docuseries
• [05:14]: Denise discusses life 11 years after the crime and motherhood
• [09:09]: Explanation of the “Reid Technique” and psychological abuse of Aaron
• [15:02]: The impact on Aaron's family and police deception
• [20:44]: Families grappling with public narrative and legal restraints
• [25:37]: Denise details her mental state during the abduction
• [33:28]: Law enforcement’s victim-blaming and “Gone Girl” references
• [38:19]: Detective Misty Caruso’s discovery and case-break
• [45:37]: Reflections on participating in the documentary and controlling the narrative
• [49:16]: Healing, advocacy, and public education
• [57:09]: Denise shares about the upcoming Crime Unfiltered Tour
• [60:46]: Facing unanswered questions about the perpetrator
• [62:51]: Discussion of accountability and apologies from law enforcement

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is raw, empathetic, and unwaveringly honest—Denise’s calm intelligence and resilience shine while Jennifer Fessler conveys outrage and admiration on behalf of listeners. The episode is suffused with empathy, righteous anger at systemic injustice, and hope born from advocacy.

Listeners are left with a deeper understanding of how victim-blaming and flawed policing traumatize survivors, and how speaking up can promote both healing and change, even long after justice is denied. Denise Huskins stands as a courageous figure determined that her story—and the hard-won lessons inside it—leads to a safer, more compassionate world.

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Learn more:
Crime Unfiltered Tour information & tickets: crimeunfiltered.com

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Transcript

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[Jennifer Fessler]

Hi, guys. Welcome back to Killer Thriller Docu Edition. I'm your host, Jennifer Fessler. So today we are talking about the Netflix docu series American Nightmare. And this story is certainly a nightmare. On March 23, 2015, Aaron Quinn and his girlfriend Denise Huskins were asleep in their home. And at 3am they were awoken to a home invader. Aaron was tied up and sedated, while Denise was abducted from the home and held hostage for 48 hours. This case tells the shocking story of these two victims who were believed to be lying by the Vallejo Police Department. Law enforcement claimed the case was a hoax and that Denise was following the plot of Gone Girl. I don't know if you guys have seen the movie, but they thought that she was a real life gone girl. So this documentary was so hard, as many of them are. Most of them are so hard to watch. And Denise is the most amazing woman. And Aaron, you feel his pain in this. And these two were just brutalized by law enforcement. And obviously Denise was brutalized by her captor. And we're gonna talk to her all about it and just sort of talk about the case and the way their words were twisted against them. So I'm gonna bring in this unbelievable, heroic woman. Hello to Denise. Welcome.

[Denise Huskins]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Thank you so much for being here with us. I have to say first, and I'm sure most people, when they, you know, begin with an interview, want you to know how sorry that they are for everything that you've been through. Documentary is it. It's well done and it's fascinating, but it also is also so heartbreaking for me as a viewer. I can only imagine what you've gone through in, in real life, in real time, and I hope that you're doing okay.

[Denise Huskins]

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. You know, it's been 11 years and there's still a Lot and downs with it all. And part of that is our choice to share what we went through publicly. And even now, we're still trying to do that with speaking in front of law enforcement and other survivors and advocates and trying to advocate for legislative changes and things that inherently are uncomfortable and we have to kind of relive it over and over again. But there's a greater purpose, we feel, that makes it worthwhile. Especially being parents of two young girls like you go through something awful and you want to give some kind of meaning or purpose around it.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I hope, I hope that if something happened to me like what you have been through, I would be that strong. I doubt it very seriously, but I hope that I would be. I had actually saw yesterday this woman whose son was murdered speak at this luncheon. And she said one of the hardest things for her was when people ask her, they say, how are you? And for whatever reason, she said, how am I? So I have a dagger sticking out of my chest that you may not see, but it doesn't go away. It's there all the time. You know, it changes. And she's also turning her tragedy into something meaningful. And it was, it was just so fascinating and admirable and everything wonderful. And so I do want to talk to you obviously, about everything you're doing now, which I can't even believe. But let's start off, if it's okay with you, just, we'll talk a little bit about the documentary. So, yeah, it's been 11 years. I don't know. I mean, I'm. I want to ask you how you're moving on, but I know that you are now married with two beautiful young daughters. They are so adorable. We saw them on the beach at the end of the documentary. So, I mean, you've kind of already answered the question, but I'm sure it's still, I would think, day to time kind of thing.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah, I mean, the. Gosh, being a parent is such a special gift. And our oldest was born five years to the day when I was released from the kidnapping, which was just like this crazy full circle moment in life.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Wow. To the day, that is crazy.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah. And I think it's just a representation of life cycling and continuing to move forward. You know, you never fully move on from something like that. But being a parent now especially, it's like this huge responsibility knowing more the bigger picture issues, the systemic flaws and how vulnerable women can be, but people in general could be. And so we feel in a way it's our duty to try to make some changes and create some awareness, you know, and hopefully leave the world a better place for them.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Well, I certainly hope that it's not the same place as it was for you 11 years ago when you're poor. It's so watching. This is so infuriating. Right? It's watching what first your husband went through and then obviously the unbelievable torment that you had to go through after you were released. And I, as I'm watching, I'm having all these questions and I want to scream a little bit. Right. Just seeing how Aaron was treated was so infuriating. Do you think that that was 11 years ago, which is really not that long. Right. Do you think things have changed from then until now? Because when I looked at it, it seems so barbaric to me.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

And I'm thinking, you know, that wasn't, you know, 30 years ago. That was 11 years ago. Where. And obviously I'm gonna ask you this, but, like, where was the lawyer? And this poor young man was tortured. So do you think things have changed or is that still what's going on?

[Denise Huskins]

Oh, things are changing and it's. It's slow, it's hard. It's a cultural challenge. Because sadly, what we learned is that that's how these officers were trained. And I mean, we wanted to believe it was just a one off and they were just, you know, rogue officers and bad apples and all of that. But as we dug, preparing initially for a defense because we were being threatened with prosecution, we discovered. Yeah. That it's a common training technique, the Reid technique. It's guilt presumptive, which was a really destabilizing thing to learn.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Guilt presumptive, I've never heard.

[Denise Huskins]

Yes. So you grow up thinking you're innocent until proven guilty in this country. But then this technique, they basically go through kind of a pseudo science initial read on whether they believe someone's lying or not. And once they've determined in their mind if someone's lying based off of body language or eye rolls or whatever it is, then go in with the goal to get a confession. And so there's a step process to do that that they followed with Aaron because they believed, and that's confirmation bias. They believed that he murdered me. And so everything was focused on trying to break him down, to confess to my murder. And that's what people saw initially. Like, so many people could connect with what I went through. They could kind of understand the depth and terror of kidnapping and rape and. And all of that, but they. They couldn't fully grasp what the Torture that Aaron had to go through already being in a traumatized state. And so I think the documentary was helpful in allowing people to really be confronted with that. And again, it's not common. We've seen over and over again that it happens. And it also. This technique is used sometimes on sexual assault survivors coming to report a crime. And they. If the investigators think she's lying or he's lying, then they use a similar techniques and can. You're going in already, going through trauma, already broken, already terrified. And he endured 18 hours. I think it's like six. Six hours that when a false confession comes up, that's like the time limit. And he extended that because he believed that I was alive. And he felt like if he got an attorney, if he, if he didn't help, then they'd stop looking for me.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Wait, but Denise, you said 18 hours. Is that consecutive?

[Denise Huskins]

Well, so he's there for 18 hours. So then there's these windows of time where they come in and they go hard at him. And it's a good like 45 minutes to an hour of just like repeating the same things of, you're a cold, calculated monster. Or maybe you made a mistake. We think you made a mistake. It's going to be. Everything's going to be so much easier. And then they start using his family against him. His brother is a special agent, FBI.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right.

[Denise Huskins]

And they're like, you're going to ruin your family's good name. You're going to ruin your brother's career. You're not going to get physical therapy. They take everything that is important to you and they use it against you.

[Jennifer Fessler]

But Denise, I mean, I watch it so at the beginning, and I'm sure this was purposeful. So we see Aaron and we don't know where he is. Right? He's in a chair and he could be in jail. Like, that's sort of what occurred. Like, I wasn't sure. I know obviously the story is out there, but I wasn't. I try to be. I try to go into these things, not really knowing, even if I vaguely remember. So. And I've seen enough of these now that sometimes you capture. I mean, he could have been guilty, right? So like in another documentary, maybe they would have caught this kind of footage of him. And still yet he was convicted and you don't know. So I'm watching it and I'm thinking from the beginning, this kid, not kid, but to me, he looked like this poor kid is not guilty. What are they seeing that I don't see? He Is traumatized and he is. Why are they so intent on it? Didn't make sense, obviously. I'm sure you get asked this a lot. Unfortunately, he didn't think to say the word lawyer from the get go. I'm thinking things are very different because as soon as he said it, the one detective or the lie detector guy was sort of did, you know, like this. Yeah, you know, this old. Now, you know, whatever, we're screwed now. But I don't know why he didn't say lawyer. But he's young and scared and traumatized. Assuming that had. Maybe he just didn't think too. But I'm watching him and I'm not sure how this whole story is going to play out but, but I don't. I'm not looking at him thinking psychopath, guilty. I'm thinking this poor kid, where is his mother? And even like the fact that they did the lie detector and they lied to him about it. There's nothing illegal, illegal here. This is protocol.

[Denise Huskins]

Well, yeah, you know, in America you police are allowed to lie. They're legally allowed to lie. In other countries they've changed that. But it's still getting that kind of cultural idea that police should be allowed to lie. And there's plenty of people who've like crusaded to make change and try to, to, to change laws around that. But there's still a lot of pushback. But that's why these, these real life stories are so important, is to show the damage that can be caused when it goes to that degree. And again, like you, I mean, we're privileged. We've never had to be in that situation before, so. And also he, his brother is a special agent in the FBI. So he believed in law enforcement.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Did they call his brother like when it first happened as a courtesy? Did they reach out?

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Yeah.

[Denise Huskins]

So it was the choice of the, the directors and producers of the documentary to not include anything about his brother because he wasn't allowed to participate because he's still an FBI agent. But no, his family, his mom and dad and his brother, an FBI agent, were in the waiting room all night, in the middle of the night. And law enforcement went to them and they even told his mom, yeah, we think he killed her. And she screamed and fell to the ground. And they lied to his brother and said that he's had a psychotic break. His pupils are dilated.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You are killing me. I the. You are killing me. How is this. I've never heard of such a thing. This is so disgusting. I know this mother. I mean, listen, Denise, at the end of the day, I want to talk to you, and you know, you've been through. That's hell. And then add on what you've been through. I just cannot believe I've never heard of this, of putting people through that. I cannot understand it. I can't. I'm so glad, and we'll talk about this later, that you're working towards making changes. I don't know if I'd be strong enough to do that, but it is disgusting and infuriating. So if anything, I think most of yours are going to feel this way. Completely and utterly outraged. I cannot believe that. And did. Did his mother or brother say he needs a lawyer?

[Denise Huskins]

Technically, it has to be Aaron to say that he wants a lawyer. And then sometimes, I mean, this is where it gets really messy and quite frankly, disgusting. If someone says, I think I need a lawyer, or I think I might need to talk to a lawyer, that they can still argue wasn't a declaration of needing an attorney. So even if you say it, it doesn't necessarily mean it. And in fact, that scene when you see Aaron say, well, maybe I need a lawyer, because he's like, we're just going in circles. They go out and they actually had called Aaron's brother, the FBI agent, into the room to see if he could get a confession out of Aaron under the premise he's had a psychotic break. We think he killed her. His pupils are dilated, all these things. And then as soon as his brother walks in, Aaron just breaks down and he starts crying because he finally sees someone who loves him, knows him, cares about him, and could do something to help. And he even. Aaron told him, I asked for an attorney. And his brother was like, wait, what? You asked for an attorney? Like, that's the next thing I'm going to do. And so it was his brother who left the state and started calling to get an attorney, but they weren't making steps to get the attorney. In fact, he told that main detective, Mustard, Aaron's brother told him, look, he asked for an attorney. I'm going to go get it. And the detective said, I don't know that that doesn't really work very well. I want to try a few more things. First, didn't his brother.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Was his brother like, you, dude?

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Like, that is crazy.

[Denise Huskins]

I know. So, like, the egregiousness of it all, it. I mean, God, anytime I talk about it, it's like we lived it, but it's just. It's so extreme that. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Could he have left? Could Aaron have. He wasn't under arrest, so could he. That whole time, that 18 hours, at any point, could he have walked himself right out? I know he wanted to help because he was so scared for you.

[Denise Huskins]

Well, he also. They took everything of his. His keys, his wallet, his phone. They stripped him. Literally stripped him naked, photographed him naked, and then put prison.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I saw. So was that. Was that a mind. Yeah, excuse my language, a mind fuck, like, to put him in prison?

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah. I mean, I don't. He's. Mustard said, this is all we got. You're in prison because this is all we got. I don't.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right.

[Denise Huskins]

You know, I mean, it's just. It's.

[Jennifer Fessler]

And why couldn't he wear his clothes? They were trying to examine them or.

[Denise Huskins]

Well, yeah, and in that. And that is understandable. Right. But, like, they could have had his parents bring him sweatpants or something, you know? So, I mean, it was all really about, like, degrading him into this character that they deemed him to be. And, yeah, he. So he. His house was a crime scene. He doesn't have a car. He's in a windowless room. As soon as they leave, you can hear the door lock. So there's no indication that he's actually free to go. He doesn't have shoes or socks on. He doesn't know where his family is. That whole time he's asking, do you know where my family is? He doesn't know. His family's in the station. They keep saying, like, I don't know. We'll get back to you on it. And he's ultimately staying because he wants them to find me. And he thinks, okay, I just have to explain it. And if I explain it more because I'm telling the truth, then they'll believe me. And he went into it with an innocence mindset, thinking, if you are innocent and you're telling the truth, then the truth shall prevail and it'll all come out. And that. Yeah, that's just not. It's just not. It doesn't work that way.

[Jennifer Fessler]

The one shot they got of him, I could actually cry just thinking of it. I get. But when he, like, put his feet up, he put the chairs together just to lay down. To put his head down. Yeah, I'm. You know, I'm a mother as well. I'm just. I cannot even imagine. And his parents. And your parents did such a beautiful job in this documentary. They both sets were so eloquent and, you know, I was so touched by all the different things that they said, specifically, your dad in the scene when he was talking to the reporter. But anyway. Yeah, yeah, I digress. How are they doing now?

[Denise Huskins]

Makes me emotional.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Denise Huskins]

Well, Aaron's dad just passed away this Christmas.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah. And he's, you know, he's. He was a shy man, keeps to himself, very intelligent, was an ER doctor for 30 years. And he, you know, so it was a big thing for him just to, like, sit in front of a camera and. And talk about this horrible experience. And I mean, all of our family members, they did it because they knew how important it was not just to us, but, like, for people to see how these things can happen. And it's really hard for. I think sometimes when you watch these shows, and especially if you watch a lot of them, I mean, you can see the emotional impact, but you really. You really don't know the depth of it and how challenging it is and how intimidating it is to sit in front of cameras and interviewer. You know, everyone has a plan of what they're hoping to get from you, and you don't want to disappoint them and you don't want to, you know, so there's just a lot of pressure and a lot of impact. And so it was just. It was so amazing for them to be able to do it because like you said, you know, people, you're a mom, you're, you know, you're a brother, you're. You can. You can feel it's these things that happen. And when police target and falsely accuse and wrongfully convict, it's not just that one person. It destroys families, of course. And. And it. I mean, it just. There's just this, like, big, almost like a bomb goes off and just, of course, a trickle effect leading. I mean, I had friends who were like tertiary friends that would have nightmares, you know?

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Denise Huskins]

So. So yeah, it's. It was a lot for them. And I'm just so, like, proud of all of them that were. When it. I am too, a little anxious and, you know, but it. It really helped to show people the full scope of.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Denise Huskins]

Something like this.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. And your brother, Your sweet brother wanting to just protect you and. 11 years ago. How old are you guys now?

[Denise Huskins]

40. I'm sorry. It's just funny to say that out loud.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Oh, really? That's the. That could be the hardest thing you ever have to say. 40 or baby still to me. But anyway.

[Denise Huskins]

But I was 20. I was 29 at the time.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I just think my son now is 26. And he just reminded me a little bit of Aaron. And after that, I don't know how a mother. The anger, I think, would have been so overwhelming. Everybody would have. I would just. I. Everybody would have to die a slow. I would be. I don't know how I could control the anger. I wonder how your parents.

[Denise Huskins]

Aaron's mom, especially, she's mama bear, and she's like, if. If she sees that there's a problem with whatever she's confronted with her life, she goes at it. And we had to rein her in.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Denise Huskins]

Especially, you know, we both. We have. Aaron and I both had separate criminal defense attorneys, but once we were reunited, we were all working together as a team, and, you know, it was like the media frenzy was crazy, and everyone wanted to talk, and they're trying to kind of manipulate you to talk before it's best for you and your case. And they go under the impression, if you don't talk now, this is the one time you're gonna. You know, this is. Someone needs to hear from a family member. Someone, you know. And so there's this pressure of, like, I need to do something. And so there's times where she was, like, driving to go give an interview, and we're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Come back. So it's hard because you want to, like, scream and shout to the world and show them, like, no, this is the truth. This is what really happened. What you were told is a lie, and you want to correct the narrative. But then also, if you're being threatened with prosecution and you have to plan to defend yourself, legally, you have. There's a. There's strategy, and you have to really make sure that you're taking the proper steps.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right.

[Denise Huskins]

It is. It was so hard, like, that restraint.

[Jennifer Fessler]

The restraint, you guys.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah. And we had it. Like, I did that in captivity. Like, oh, you didn't fight back? You didn't scream. I'm like, I want. I even had the lead FBI agent ask me, like, did you. Did you try to escape? Did you think about it? And I'm like, oh, no, I can't.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I didn't think about it at all. Yeah, I cannot. I cannot believe that these questions are asked.

[Denise Huskins]

I know.

[Jennifer Fessler]

All right, so I'm going to ask you some questions just about. If it's okay with you, just about the actual incident. So one of the questions I have here is, like, what stands out the most in the first few hours you were taken?

[Denise Huskins]

Well, you're trying to hold on to your sanity, quite frankly. I'm Terrified. I'm confused. I don't know what's happening. I don't know why this is. You know, like, you're just trying to make sense of it, and you're really, like, literally needing to live second by second and pay attention to any little

[Jennifer Fessler]

things that you had that wherewithal. I have to tell you, watching you, watching you or hearing you say that you were counting the turns, and you recognize that it was probably a Mustang. And you. I'm thinking to myself, are you kidding me? How do you have the wherewithal in the trunk of a car blindfolded? Like, are you thinking that one day they're going to ask me and I'm going to have to help? How did you have the wherewithal to even.

[Denise Huskins]

It's kind of silly, but, like, I. And when I was being interrogated by the police, I just. When they're asking me those stupid questions, I mean, I'm telling them, like, I'm trying because there was moments as soon as that trunk door closed, I'm starting to hyperventilate. I'm thinking, something's gonna go wrong. They're gonna burn me alive in the car. Like, you're just thinking of all the. All the possible scenarios because you also need to be prepared for everything. And so your mind wanders and like, no, I need to stay focused.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. How do you. You're a young woman, have the. Your parents did a good job raising you, my friend, that you could say to yourself, I have to have the wherewithal. I mean, that the fear didn't just grip you.

[Denise Huskins]

Well, yeah. I mean, I think partly what helped me is being a physical therapist, and I have an understanding of the trauma response and all the different, like, systemic things that happen. I mean, as soon as I woke up to a strange man's voice saying, like, be calm. We're not here to hurt you. And I'm seeing a flashing white light and red laser dots, and I'm like, they have guns. Like, there's people here. We're surrounded. And I could feel that physiological response happen. And it floods. Like, it. It's almost like you've taken a drug and there's this whole chemical hormonal thing that's happening. Your heart's racing. Like, I could flip. Feel almost like my eyeballs were shaking. And I needed, like, focus them. But I knew what was happening in my body so I could. I mean, I literally tried to teach people how to calm their breathing So I think those types of techniques helped me stay grounded or even like having to put the zip ties on Aaron. Like I was just focusing on him and trying to ground myself in the moment and then knowing, just telling myself, like, I need to pay attention, I need to pay attention. And I'm just like taking stock of every little thing, of every little sound because I don't. You just don't know what little bit of information might save your life. And so I like, it was, it's again, it's like this. Even with police or even with the public shaming and the misrepresentation, all this stuff, like you're innate response is to do something. And then cognitively I know, well, that's not going to help me right now. I can't just react. So what I need to pull it back. And, and so the energy that it takes to have strength, restraint is like,

[Jennifer Fessler]

I mean, I'm hearing your words.

[Denise Huskins]

Crazy.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I don't get it. I am 57 years old. I don't get how you were able to access that strength, not just because of your age, but you're an extraordinary human for many reasons. But this is like just hearing you talk about this, I still don't get it. And I'm hoping maybe we're going to talk about everything that's happening with you

[Denise Huskins]

now, but I don't want you to get it.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I don't want to get it either, if I'm being honest. I would like to know that my daughter had some training in this area. You know, just. Even if it's because trauma, I know what it feels like to be traumatized or going through something where it feels like my eyeballs are going to come where it, you know, it hits the body like that. So. But it's, it's such a useful skill, I guess, for so many, like both young women and men to be able to process that somehow.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's just you don't know until you're in a situation like that. And I hope that people don't.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, no, of course, of course, like

[Denise Huskins]

true terror feels like what it feels like in your body. Like you can describe it. But. And so, but I think people are stronger than they even know and. Yeah, and you know, a lot of people say, like, I would never be able to or like, you know, do what you did. And it's like I tell them, you just don't know. It's surprising. And that's why I love my job as a physical therapist. Like, I tell people all the time, like our bodies do an incredible job protecting ourselves and the resilience within to continue on. Saying, like someone living with chronic pain, you just survive because you need to go to work, because you need to take care of your kids, you know, and it in, in time it builds up and eventually you could break down. And that's where like real work and therapy, you know, psychological, physical, all of those things help in like processing the healing. But in those moments of survival, like, it's incredible what the human body can do.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Do you share your story with your clients?

[Denise Huskins]

I do sometimes. That's been an interesting thing to navigate because it has been in and out of the news cycle in different ways. So like say, you know, when we had to go give our victim impact statement and speak for the first time in a courtroom, I knew it was going to be publicized. And so for some of my patients, I let them know, you know, like, this is something that's going to happen and you might see it on the news and I'd rather, you know, from me than turning on the TV and being like, what? That's my therapist, you know, so it depends on the person and the situation. But most of my patients, patients know about it.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Denise Huskins]

And so it, and in a way it can help me connect on a deeper level with some of them. Especially because a lot of people with multiple health diagnoses, chronic pain, who've been in and out of PT in different types and, or different doctor's offices, when we really get down to it, there's some kind of childhood or long term emotional trauma that is associated with, with the layers of pain, physical pain system shut down. You know, your gut, your stomach, your heart, like when you're in that chronic state of stress or when you've had something really, you know, and stays with you, adds up over time. And so it's, I think, really eye opening and revealing and healing for them to connect the dots as far as, like, why? Because they can get really frustrated and like, and almost be mad at their body. And I just have to remind them, like, your body has saved you, it's helped you. This is hard, it's complex, but this is where it stems from and it's survival.

[Jennifer Fessler]

So speaking of childhood trauma, so your, your mom talked about how you had been molested as a child. And one of the many revolting and disgusting things we learn is that I forget, was it one of the reporters or police officers?

[Denise Huskins]

It was the detective and I was still in captivity and my family didn't know if I was alive. Or dead. They were having them in there to listen to the proof of life that was sent in by my captor saying that I was alive and giving a current event to confirm the day. But when they went in there before they even had her listen to the actual thing that they asked her to come in and listen to, they were asking again, like, accusatory questions about my character, about my past, my relationships, my drinking, my this, my that. And then has anything bad happen to her? And my mom's like, oh, yeah, this thing. And she doesn't. Doesn't know what would be helpful for whatever reason. And then, yeah, the detective said something along the lines of. Of, you know, my experience. Women who've. People who've had been assaulted before might want to relive the thrill of it. Or it was.

[Jennifer Fessler]

That was the word. It was the thrill. You know, I've had. I've been in therapy for many, many years, and I've had some childhood trauma. And my. My own therapist has said to me, sometimes you are used to something or you. You're. You believe after a while, as a victim, that something is normal and it almost feels comfortable, right? Like. Like being in a certain kind of pain feels comfortable. That is a very different thing than saying, than calling it a thrill.

[Denise Huskins]

I know. And I think that maybe that's what he was intending or what he was thinking of. Like, there's kind of a repeated thing, pattern, say like an abusive parent or something. And then you kind of associate love with abuse, and so sometimes that kind of thing. So there's total complexities to that. The way in which he delivered it to my mom was as if it. And my. My younger brother, as if I was at fault. So as if I was. I did something. And. And then even after that, one of the. The officers said to my mom and brother that they should watch Gone Girl or something about Gone Girl at that point in time. And I hadn't even been released yet, so, like, they already clearly had an idea of me. And it didn't matter what my family told them.

[Jennifer Fessler]

First of all, I hate that stupid movie. But had you seen.

[Denise Huskins]

Took me like nine months to finally watch it. I had heard about it. I had heard about the book and the movie. I hadn't read it, I hadn't seen it. So that was another thing. Infuriating thing about this whole thing. It's like they're saying that I'm trying to replicate something I didn't see or watch or read. So just like how. And then when I finally did nine months Later I'm like, there's nothing the

[Jennifer Fessler]

same about that movie.

[Denise Huskins]

It doesn't make sense because she, she has, she inflicts injuries to herself. She's super dramatic when she's released. But then the law enforcement was saying they couldn't believe me because I didn't seem like anything bad happened to me, that I didn't show any motion, that I didn't have any physical injuries. You know, reporters wrongfully said I was released or I came back unscathed, unharmed. And so it like. Yeah. But in a way, though, watching it, although it was infuriating, it was also. It gave me some level of peace because then it made me realize, like, it didn't matter what I did, what I said, if I was dramatic and showed more emotion than they would have referred to the movie. And they're like, see, just like. Or if I had. Yeah. Physical injuries, they wouldn't have. That wouldn't have been confirmation. Then something happened. They would have been like, well, she did it to herself.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right.

[Denise Huskins]

So I was able to release that, like, self blame that I was holding onto.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Like, you should have done something differently. You should have been more emotional. What a joke that you would feel like you had to blame yourself for not reacting in a certain way. I even thought, and I don't know if this is true or not, but the filmmaker or the director, they show the actress walking back all bloodied up into her house. And I thought to myself, so they think that she's maybe emulating Gone Girl. There was. I don't get it. This is nothing like Gone Girl. She didn't, she wasn't being. It wasn't dramatic. It was dramatic, obviously, but in terms of like, what we saw your outward, like. What are you talking about? Yeah, that was. I don't know if they did that on purpose. The filmmakers kind of like, you know, compare it to this.

[Denise Huskins]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, yeah. Wow. So tell me a little bit about when Mueller was discovered. The officer that, that connected him to the case. Did you first learn about that? How'd you first learn about that? Was it the news or was it your lawyer or.

[Denise Huskins]

Oh, goodness. Well, no, we. There's just so many things. We were not staying, obviously in Aaron's home because we couldn't return to it. We were like going back and forth long California to my mom's or to his parents and staying with, with friends and family. And when we were down in Southern California, we got a call from our attorney and said, they said that they. There might be some new information we couldn't trust it. And right before. Actually, right before that call, we had found out because Aaron was trying to sell his home from the realtor, that squatters had broken into his home and changed the locks of his home. And the police were called, and the same guy who answered the call for the kidnapping went into the homes. Like, oh, yeah, I've been here before. They didn't, like, force the squatters to leave. They were coming with, like, ups. They completely cleaned out Aaron's garage, which was, like, full of woodworking stuff. And so we were, like, already super stressed about that. And, like, are we trying to come back up? And then we hear, like, there's this break in the case. They want to talk to you. And I'm like, it's a. It's fake. Like, they just want to have you come in. They're going to arrest you.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Sure.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah. So we were just, like, so paranoid. I mean, there's just nothing indicated before then that they were actually doing anything. So we're like, why now? But. And my attorney said, absolutely not. Do not. You're not stepping in the same room as these agents. But Aaron did, and he. With his attorneys, and they said, we found your laptop because Mueller took his laptop. And then finally, little by little, we understood little pieces of what happened, that he was caught for a different crime. And at first, it made it seem like the FBI had caught them. But then later, we learned it was actually Misty Caruso, a different detective of a different agency for a different crime. Of course, he attacked another family. And it's just so devastating that that is how the truth came out, that it took more people to suffer for that to happen. But Misty, that was like, her first case as a detective. And she. And she saw the one strand of blonde hair on blacked out swim goggles. And all the victims in her case had dark hair. And she was like, I'm gonna keep investigating. Something else happened. And even as she was doing that, we later found out, like, even some of her colleagues were like, you're spending too much time on this. We got our guy, like, Casey closed. And I think that happens a lot. And she's like, no, what about the blonde hair? And so she kept going. And that, like, thank God.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Thank God. Steps.

[Denise Huskins]

If. Yeah, like, I don't know where we would be.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Are you in touch with her?

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah, yeah, we're. We're very close. Our girls have hung out. She has two girls are same around her, same age. And they. When she finally reached out to us, it was 2018, a few years, years after the kidnapping, after some of the cases were closed and we were getting married six months later. So we invited her and her husband.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Oh I love that.

[Denise Huskins]

That's about how like she was trying to eat food and there's a line of people close to us like waiting to think.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yes, of course. I love that.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah, we went to each other's baby showers. Like we're we're very much. We have a text chain.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I love. I don't know her unfortunately. I'll probably never meet her. I love. Please send her love.

[Denise Huskins]

I will.

[Kalpen (Kal Penn)]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S P500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Resource with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 1160 calories, no added sugar and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense gym sessions, it's just for life. With the wide variety of flavors from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. It's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein powers me to say Y to more Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. Instead of giving your mom something that fades, give her something that becomes part of her home this Mother's Day. The Lenox Spice Village is a set of 24 hand painted little houses that are actually spice jars, perfect for anyone who loves to cook, entertain or enjoy the little details that make everyday life special. As a mom, I love gifts that help turn ordinary moments into memories. Charming, timeless and meant to be used. This is one of those pieces she'll treasure. And once you see it, you'll want it for your own home too. Find the full [e-mail] SpiceVillage you know

[Redfin/Coldwater Creek Advertiser]

what quality feels like. You can see it in the way a fabric moves, recognize it in a flawless fit and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique. It's the standard Coldwater Creek has honored for over 40 years, derived from a rich Mountain west heritage and designed for today in styles that are distinctively Coldwater Creek. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com, shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases $75 or more with code iHeart.

[Jennifer Fessler]

After the documentary came out, how has that, how has it been for you? I mean, having to first of all just kind of to relive it and do you feel like the documentary was really true to your experience and your story? You know, there are a lot of eyes on you now for sure. And how has that been? Does it make things harder or is it somehow helpful?

[Denise Huskins]

It's, there's, there's good and bad with all of it. Right. You know, just even the process of doing the documentary, we knew we would not do it unless we wrote a book about it because we had already had like a prior experience with a different producer that we, we thought we were aligned and we were not. They just kind of, it seemed like wanted to focus on sensational pieces and not the bigger picture and we wouldn't go through that and put our families through that just to like highlight the bizarre aspects of our case. We wanted to show because so many victims are not believed, so many people, like people are falsely accused, misjudged, misrepresented. There's systemic flaws in the interrogation tactics. So many things that impact so many lives that we wanted to make sure were really highlighted. And so when we eventually got connected with ra the production company who did it. We were very clear about what our goals were. Like, we made them work hard.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Good. It showed. I mean, it definitely showed.

[Denise Huskins]

And they were aligned in it did not want to do that format of kind of that bait and switch. Like, Aaron did it, did Denise do it? Thing that was like, oh, God, do we have to do that? However, I understand that there needs to be this, like, really extreme emotional swing to get people gripped and engaged. And the.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Whoa.

[Denise Huskins]

You know, the. It's like, I understand it. So it's tricky, like, being the subject of these types of shows because ultimately it is entertainment, and we understand that. So trying to find a balance of entertainment and then be still respectful of the subjects involved is a hard thing. And there were times where we disagreed and we compromised. And like Aaron and I, at that point, we've already gone through a civil suit, we've gone through court cases. We had no problem pushing back. They were receptive and they shifted and pivoted. And every individual is different who sits in front of them and shares their experience. Some people want a little bit more assistance as far as kind of a script. For me, I didn't want to be scripted because I had been told that I wasn't believable, and you're a liar. And I'm like, I need to just speak about what happened because it was too triggering to be in a box. So, again, it's just like this. But in the end, the documentary was so well received. It's all across the world. We've heard from people, and people connected with the main themes that we wanted them to connect with. And so it. It served its purpose. And with that, we were afforded opportunities that we wouldn't otherwise have. It was the first time after the series came out that anyone in law enforcement invited us to speak to them. And so we're like, yes. I mean, that's, you know, for almost a decade, we're like, we want to work with law. Like, yes, they were part of our trauma, and we have, like, a certain fear and hesitation around them. But we need law enforcement. But we need good law enforcement with good training who understand the trauma response. And.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. And all this work that you're doing, are you seeing. I'm hoping you're seeing really big results. I know you're so dedicated to making these changes. Are you seeing these changes?

[Denise Huskins]

And it's been really encouraging to see members within law enforcement or within the advocacy space who've been working for decades trying to chase or, sorry, trying to change the interviewing tactics. And trying to show that. And so in a way it's a really good partnership because in the end you can feed people statistics all day long and they don't connect with it. It doesn't penetrate. People connect with stories and so we're like, we'll use us and we share our real lived experience as a helpful learning tool for people. And so it's been really great. And, and honestly, like we've been so hidden. And so the exposure, like without a doubt did. I had to go back to therapy. I did EMDR therapy. Like I had to. There was a lot of trauma.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I'm sure it all came up, of

[Denise Huskins]

course exposure because at the time it was so blended with like, I'm gonna be killed and then I'm released and I don't even feel free. And then who I am, the life that I had, my name, reputation was then just destroyed. So that level of exposure is just like systemically my nervous system just was wrecked. But being in person, in real life and talking to people is so very different than talking in front of a camera and having someone watch on a screen. You get to see how people respond and it becomes an interaction and a dialogue. And that human connection piece is so, just so important.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Kalpen (Kal Penn)]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Resource with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier Protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. The 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense gym sessions, it's just for with the wide variety of flavors from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. It's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein empowers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. Instead of giving your mom something that fades, give her something that becomes part of her home this Mother's Day. The Lenox Spice Village is a set of 24 hand painted little houses that are actually spice jars. Perfect for anyone who loves to cook, entertain or enjoy the little details that make everyday life special. As a mom, I love gifts that help turn ordinary moments into memories. Charming, timeless and meant to be used. This is one of those pieces she'll treasure, and once you see it, you'll want it for your own home too. Find the full [e-mail] SpiceVillage you know

[Redfin/Coldwater Creek Advertiser]

what quality feels like. You can see it in the way a fabric moves, recognize it in a flawless fit and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique. It's the standard Coldwater Creek has honored for over 40 years, derived from a rich Mountain west heritage and designed for today in styles that are distinctively Coldwater Creek. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com, shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases. $75 or more with code iHeart.

[Jennifer Fessler]

It's interesting because you said, you know, it is the storytelling. And when I watch these true crime documentaries, and I was, I haven't been watching them for that long, to be quite honest with you, but I think they are stories, right? And also there is, because you're watching them on TV there, it feels like there's this, you're not in it as much, right? It's not. You're not living it. It's still on your screen, right? So there's a little separation, but the Thing that I think I enjoy about almost all of them that I've seen is finding, like, the hero in them. And I say that, you know, the way that watching you, it be so unbelievably heroic, you know, in the face of unbelievable, you know, trauma and trial and tribulation and watching how you rose, that is. That is. Was enjoyable for me. Right. And to also see Aaron, who, again, from the beginning, I was like this kid. To see him being vindicated, that is, you know, that. That full circle, that is very enjoyable. It is not enjoyable to see, you know, what happened. But I do enjoy crime documentaries, true crime documentaries, where I feel like there is movement, something. You know, there's a shift in the universe somehow because of what these people have. Have gone through. And I felt that so profoundly with American Nightmare. And so I'm. And I'm also. I also feel as if I want to talk to my kids more. And they're grown. They're, you know, they're going to be 24 and 26. But there's a lot of information here that I want to share with them.

[Redfin/Coldwater Creek Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You know, which is a tribute to you.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah. And I think that that's what draws people to true crime. And then there's some, like, true crime fans or people who get into it who may not be the healthiest thing for them, who might have an energy of chaos and then the victim blaming, the conspiracy theories, the public shaming, all of those kinds of components of it. But a majority of people who watch these, who are captivated by these shows, they've gone through some. I mean, let's face it, we've all gone through something horrible in our life that completely disrupts our world and might change the trajectory of our lives. And we're still trying to have to do our roles as a mother, as a friend, your profession, you still have to figure out how to still live with this disruption. I think that that's what people see and they saw with our case in particular. And, you know, everyone can understand a little bit of, like, being misjudged or misrepresented or people.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Not like. Not like that.

[Denise Huskins]

Not like that. So, like, our case is extreme, for sure, but you can connect with certain components, and that's why, like, just continuing to speak out and connect with people, I think is just so valuable. Like, next month, we're going to be doing a tour with a bunch of other survivor advocates. It's called Crime Unfiltered is the tour. And we're. We're joining with John Ramsey we're joining Nicole Schmidt, who's Gabby Petito's mom, Sean Ellis, who is an exoneree who lost over two decades of his life for a murder he did not commit. I mean, we're, we're trying to. That's again, another positive of the exposure of the documentary. It has allowed us to connect with so many other advocates out there who have a similar. You know, again, every case is unique, but the overarching themes that we've gone through and then trying to use this awful experience to maybe create awareness, to connect with others who might not have the resources to fight, who might not have the platform to speak and be heard, who get lost, who might not have, like, the family or friends or support to turn to. And again, that, like, being in the same space physically and connecting with people like you think after Covid and like we live in such a social media, like digital world and human, like, we need each other. We need the vibrations of each other. We need to laugh and cry and feel like we're, we're not alone in this world. And so I'm just, I'm really looking forward to having that opportunity with other courageous people and continuing to, I mean, try to get some legislative change. And, you know, there's. The hard part is, is like, the more you learn, the more you realize,

[Jennifer Fessler]

learn a lot of work to do. And so where can our listeners go to meet you guys? So you said you're going on tour, so where can we go to hear you in person?

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah, it's. So the Crime Unfiltered Tour for right now. We're going to be in the Midwest in June. So I think it's June 6th and 7th is Chicago, then Milwaukee, and then I think it's the 18th, 19th, Indianapolis and Detroit. And there's website, just crimeunfiltered.com where they can learn a little bit more about each of the people who are participating. You can get tickets on there, but I think that's going to be a really special experience. So I hope for people to come and just connect.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I'll come. I mean, if you come, come to the East Coast, I would love to meet all of these heroes. And it's just, it's extraordinary. And I, I'm sorry, I'm, I said it already. I'm at maybe ad nauseam. It's. This is. You are, you are amazing. You amaze me. And there must be. Makes me feel like, okay, there's a lot of, there's a lot of bad in this world, but there is a lot of good in this world, you know, and that's what is. I. What I take from a lot of these documentaries is I just look at your unbelievable strength and grace. I just. And I'm sure I'm not the first person who has said that to you, but. And your parents and your brother and Aaron, and so it's just, it's. I'm in awe of it all. Do you feel like you still have unanswered questions? I mean, I could ask you questions all day, but do you yourself feel like.

[Denise Huskins]

Yeah, there's, there's. I mean, one of the things, too, that happened after the series came out, I mean, we knew that there was other victims involved or not involved, but who. Other victims of the assailant. Because he had told me in captivity, we told police about it, and it didn't seem like they wanted to investigate. And so we were able to reopen the case after the series came out with new law enforcement. And sure enough, Mueller confessed to several other crimes, his first being in 1993 or 96 with. He was 16 years old and he attacked. He just had a long history. There was another crime that happened two weeks after our kidnapping when everyone was calling me gone girl, that the family never reported it because they were still living in fear. And that new group of law enforcement was able to find them. But as far as, like, him and just how many people he's attacked and hurt, I don't think we'll ever fully know. And we, you know, based on everything that happened, it seemed like there was other people involved in what he did. And I don't. I want to believe that it's just him. I know all of the victims that he's attacked want to believe that, and I'm hoping that it was just him. It's hard because we know how poorly the investigation was handled at the beginning. And so although there's new eyes on it, they can't investigate what they don't have, what wasn't collected, what wasn't seen. So there's, you know, I think the reality is, is most victims of violent crime are never fully going to get the answers. The why, the how, the what, and. And you have to just settle and accept that and be humbled in this, you know, uncertainty.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yes. Yeah.

[Denise Huskins]

And that's. That's hard. But, yes, you somehow make peace with it at the same time trying to find the answers that you can find.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, I know you have to jump. I'm sorry. Because I could. I. My head is sort of spinning. Right. Like the last Question I promise is, did you ever get, Did, Did Mustard ever reach out to you? There was never. For anybody for that matter, was there ever an apology?

[Denise Huskins]

No. Mustard will never apologize to us.

[Jennifer Fessler]

He.

[Denise Huskins]

I don't know. There's one FBI agent, not the main FBI agent, but one FBI agent directly involved who we saw at a court hearing and he looked us in the eye and said, I'm so sorry. I should. We should have rescued you. We should. You know, and your guys are always in my mind and that like the difference that makes of like looking, having someone look you in the eye and say I'm sorry of course is like so huge. And all the main players, the chief that they just, even certain reporters still, it's like they just, just can't and won't.

[Jennifer Fessler]

They don't want to admit to. Right.

[Denise Huskins]

And, and that's another thing. It's like, okay, I'm gonna accept that and you know, I'm not gonna do anything to change their minds and that's fine. But you just focus on the things that you can control or hope that you might influence and.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. And listen, listen. I'm sure they're not very fond of this documentary, so.

[Denise Huskins]

No.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Good, good, good. Sorry. But. Haha. Okay. So anyway, I, I can't thank you enough. Thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us. You are my hero. I wish you all good. It really, it really was. I wish you all good things. All good things to Aaron. All good things to your beautiful girls. Thank you for your bravery. Thank you for joining us. Can you. You want to move into my house and be with me? I just, I just.

[Denise Huskins]

You give it a jersey.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I'm in awe of you. Please, you have a home. Please, please, please. I'm in awe of you. Thank you for everything.

[Denise Huskins]

Okay. Thank you.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Wish you all good things.

[Denise Huskins]

Thank you.

[Bowen Yang]

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[Denise Huskins]

this is Sophia Donner from OK Storytime this summer. Find your next obsession on Prime Video. And listen, we're not saying you need another obsession, but there could be a lot worse ones. Steamy romance, addictive love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice, so why not watch them a third time off campus? Elle, the Love Hypothesis and more Slow Burns Second Chances chemistry you can feel through the screen and it makes you wish you were actually in that movie. We've got binge worthy series can't miss movies perfect for when you're ignoring your own print problems or procrastinating as one does. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.

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[Denise Huskins]

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