Killer Thriller Docu: Buried Secrets: The Father Who Made His Daughter Help Dispose of Bodies

Summary

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Killer Thriller Docu Edition

Episode Title: Buried Secrets: The Father Who Made His Daughter Help Dispose of Bodies
Date: May 16, 2026
Hosts: Jennifer Fessler
Guest: Angus James (Filmmaker/Director of My Killer Father: The Green Hollow Murders)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the raw, unsettling true story behind the documentary series My Killer Father: The Green Hollow Murders. Host Jennifer Fessler sits down with director Angus James to discuss the haunting case of Donald Dean Studley, an Iowa man accused by several of his children of horrific abuse, potential serial killings, and the concealment of victims’ bodies in abandoned wells on a remote property known as Green Hollow. The episode explores the emotional, logistical, and ethical complexities of investigating traumatic family secrets, the persistent pursuit of truth despite resistance and disbelief, and reveals a bombshell development in the search for physical evidence.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Origins and Impact of the Documentary

• Angus James describes being drawn to the story after seeing it covered by Anderson Cooper on CNN. He discusses the challenges of giving legitimacy to a victim whom “no one's believed for years” (04:45), balancing emotional responsibility with journalistic skepticism.
• Co-producer Paul Lima's personal experience with familial violence added resonance and drive to the project (05:37).
• The project began with self-financing and a deep sense of investigative duty, both to the subjects and to the truth.

The Family Dynamics and Differing Realities

• Central to the case are two sisters: Lucy, who alleges long-standing abuse and participation in body disposal, and Susan, who insists on her father's innocence (09:39).
• Jennifer and Angus explore the emotional fragmentation among the siblings — five sisters in total, with fierce disagreement about their past and their father's deeds.
• “One says their father was a murderer and beat them, and the other one's like, he was a wonderful dad and he never even hit us." — Angus James (09:39)
• Angus confirms the abuse through multiple sources—even as Susan resists acknowledging it.
• Trauma's impact on memory is discussed as a barrier to the objective truth (10:56), making the story part psychological thriller and part true crime.

Approaching Difficult Subjects on Camera

• Susan’s involvement in the documentary was hard-won. Angus emphasizes his intent not to create a “gotcha” piece but a fair, humanizing portrayal:
  • "I'm really proud of the fact that I tackle some really tough subjects and someone watches it, and they're like, yeah, that's a fair representation of me." (12:27)
  • Susan herself reportedly changed in the process, becoming open to the possibility of her father’s guilt (13:07).
• Lucy underwent hypnotherapy, a process partially documented by the crew, as no formal therapy was otherwise involved (14:00).

The Toll on the Family and Filmmakers

• Both women now face strained or absent relationships with family; Lucy’s son is a key observer, skeptical at times of her quest, while Susan is “mostly estranged” (14:28).
• The making of the documentary took an emotional toll on Angus himself:
  • “…it, you know, I would say the relationship I had, I was in an abusive relationship. You know, this is like we were berated and, and, and yelled at and screamed at…” (19:32)
  • Lucy, he says, is capable of verbal violence rooted in her history of trauma (20:02).

Investigative Methods and Discoveries

• The investigation often fell more on the filmmakers than expected; local law enforcement was largely unresponsive (20:25).
• Angus describes paying — out of pocket — for the exhumation of Lucy's stepmother’s body to gather evidence:
  • "That was like 25, 000 up front." (22:49)
• Testimonies from previous partners and a man who assisted in disposing of a body (Robert Masson) contributed to the case’s credibility (23:20, 24:44).
• The hosts discuss the unseen logistical and ethical lines crossed for the sake of uncovering the truth.

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Bombshell Development: New Evidence Found

• Angus drops exclusive news: Lucy recently trespassed onto the Green Hollow site, finding and photographing what appears to be a well shaft (25:09).
• Photos sent to Dr. Belcher, an anthropologist, confirm the shaft’s authenticity — potentially corroborating Lucy’s long-held claims (25:35).
• "They believe she's found the well." — Angus James (25:28)
• The next step: securing law enforcement involvement, funding, and technical means to test the well for human remains.

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Systemic Frustrations and Attempts at Justice

• The local coroner and police have consistently dismissed requests to revisit the probable homicide of the sisters’ mother, Charlotte, despite renowned medical testimony and evidence suggestive of homicide (26:42).
• Only through a crafty legal maneuver—filing probate on Charlotte’s estate—were the sisters able to force a limited release of police documents (28:21).
• Financial motivation (civil damages) seems secondary to the quest for truth for the surviving family (29:34).

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The Notorious Father and Familial Legends

• The episode explores claims that Donald Studley was a mob hitman, receiving “envelopes with names on them” and potentially responsible for dozens of contract killings (38:13–39:24).
  • "What the rumor was: he was in the hole and gambling debts to the mob...Instead of killing him, he basically was like, well, I can kill anyone you want." (38:33)
• Marilyn, a flamboyant sister involved in the story, claimed he killed at least 100 people. She herself died two months after giving an interview for the doc (35:16–35:38).
• The logistics of his lifestyle are dissected; despite chilling rumors, Studley lived in poverty, with questions around any “hitman” earnings (40:27–41:08).

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Psychological and Societal Themes

• The ongoing question: how much of the sisters’ narratives is fact versus trauma-induced memory distortion? Angus is careful not to overinterpret:
  • “I think I'm at my best when I just focus on what I know." (44:07)
• Community “myths” about Green Hollow—cave dwellers, the proliferation of wells—provide both factual and psychological context to the sisters’ stories (41:34–44:02).
• Angus consulted experts in psychology and former law enforcement to maintain rigor and sensitivity in pursuing the truth (44:07).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Your whole life you've been abused, you've had to carry bodies for your father, and no one will listen. That's always like the...that just freaks me out.”
  — Jennifer Fessler (06:29)
• “I had substantiated that [the abuse] through multiple sources. And so I knew that, you know, Lucy's sister Susan wasn't being honest with us about that or wasn't able to be honest, you know.”
  — Angus James (09:39)
• “...there may at times be, you know, a conscious effort to lie and conceal something...but more often than not, what I really found was...a reality that was wildly distorted from the trauma that they experienced.”
  — Angus James (10:56)
• “Recently, Lucy broke onto the property and she's taken some photos, and we've sent that over to Dr. Belcher...they believe she's found the well.”
  — Angus James (25:09)
• “If this is all a willful and deliberate attempt to right day to still conceal something happened a while ago, I mean, that's horrific.”
  — Angus James (29:43)
• “She watched Don dissolve a body into a vat of acid one time...She watched Don kill her rapist...And I think she genuinely was pleased when Don killed her rapist.”
  — Angus James (37:27)
• “What I always believed for the longest time was that Lucy reappropriated her traumatic memories of her mom’s being murdered ...into this story of the wells. I thought that it was possible that...her father was some version of a hitman.”
  — Angus James (41:34)
• “For me, this started off as investigation to find the truth and where it ended up was just a fascinating, you know, step into our psyche...psyche of people who were traumatized.”
  — Angus James (46:28)

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Timeline of Key Segments

• [02:55] – [05:34]: Intro to the documentary and the Studley family allegations
• [06:18] – [13:05]: Lucy and Susan: contrasting memories; trauma and truth; family dynamics
• [14:28] – [15:34]: Current family relationships/rifts
• [19:32] – [22:27]: Emotional toll on filmmakers; intervention in the investigation; the cost and ethics of exhuming bodies
• [24:44] – [25:38]: Robert Masson’s testimony; exclusive breaking news of the well shaft discovery
• [26:42] – [30:43]: Frustrations with law enforcement and legal maneuvers
• [34:47] – [41:19]: The sisters' backgrounds, father’s legend, possible mob connections, personal stories, lifestyle analysis
• [41:34] – [44:59]: The role of myth, memory, and psychological trauma in the case
• [45:14] – [47:54]: Reflection on the experience; what’s next for the investigation and for James

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Conclusion

In a candid, emotionally charged discussion, Jennifer Fessler and Angus James trace the ways trauma, memory, and desperate searches for justice interplay in the aftermath of decades-old violence. With the shocking new evidence of a well shaft possibly containing human remains, the case is far from closed, either for law enforcement or for those inexorably drawn into the orbit of the Green Hollow murders. The episode underscores the power and responsibility of documentary filmmaking to surface hidden truths, even (or especially) when the truth is elusive, painful, and unresolved.

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Transcript

[Sophia Donner]

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[Angus James]

Guaranteed Human Amazon Health AI presents painful

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Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

[Angus James]

Don't go down the rabbit hole.

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[Angus James]

Healthcare just got less painful.

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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prom and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier Protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting afterlife. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein dot com.

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[Jennifer Fessler]

Hi, you guys. So welcome back to Killer Thriller Docu Edition. I'm your host, Jennifer Fessler. So today we are talking to filmmaker and director Angus James. So he's the director behind the haunting true crime docu series, My Killer Father, the Green Hollow Murders. Guys, this one is creepy af. I mean, it's a lot. The series explores the shocking allegations surrounding Donald Dean Studley, who is an Iowa man accused by several of his children of abuse, violence, possibly multiple murders connected to a remote property known as Green Hollow. So for years, family members claim victims were buried in abandoned wells on the land. And there were allegations that led investigators to conduct excavations decades after the crimes were said to have happened. So this is a crazy, whacked out story about murders that happened years ago and discovering the truths and this, this family that just has been through so much. And I will tell you that something comes out in the course of our interview. There is some news that you will not want to miss. Some news that really just kind of turned the whole story around. But anyway, I'm not going to keep teasing you. Let's bring in Angus James. Hi, Ang.

[Angus James]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Thank you so much for joining us. Really, really appreciate it. Your work is fascinating. This documentary is fascinating. And I always kind of ask directors, producers like, how you doing? You okay after all this? Because it seems like it would have been quite the ride.

[Angus James]

Yeah, it was, it was really intense. I mean, it was especially intense because, you know, you have especially like an obligation to find out if it's true. But you're also dealing with somebody who I think for years has been, no one's believed her. So there's sort of this real sort of emotional and I think psychological responsibility to her to give her a voice. But I was also struggling between that and, you know, when you can go and take this out to market and tell people, hey, I really have something that I believe in here. So, yeah, it was, it was a lot. The hardest part of it was sort of through that part where we were self financing it and trying to figure out, you know, was there or there there. But once we sort of started to come up with some real investigative discoveries on our own, that's when things got easier for sure.

[Jennifer Fessler]

How'd it come to you?

[Angus James]

We saw it on cnn. We saw it on Anderson Cooper was covering. It was interviewing the journalist, one of the journalists who broke the story. And we Reached out to Lucy and, you know, you call as like our. To basically track down these things and you lose a lot of them because there's a lot of other production companies chasing them and morning shows and everything else. But, yeah, she. She. You know, I think we really connected with her and particularly Paul Lima's producing partner of mine. His. His father was murdered, you know, in a. In a sort of a crazy story. So he has this sort of personal connection to the sort of true crime. And I think that they really connected.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. What was your impression of Lucy when you met her?

[Angus James]

She'd been through a lot. Traumatized, desperate for someone to. Sort of desperate for someone to. To investigate what she believed to have been true.

[Jennifer Fessler]

It was palpable. Her, you know, desperation and her need to be heard and just heartbreaking, really. And I felt that just throughout the entirety of the documentary. Right. It's. It's. It's a scary story. It's a tragic story, but. And it's also just such a sad story. Right. I. For all involved, but particularly I. Just the frustration that I, I, you know, I felt. I couldn't imagine having this carrying this weight. Right. Like, your whole life you've been abused, You've had to carry bodies for your father, and no one will listen. That's always like the. That just freaks me out.

[Angus James]

Yeah. I mean, she. She went in, you know, at one point, she tells a story about when she was a little girl and she had the courage to tell her teacher.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right?

[Angus James]

Yeah. And, you know, the way she tells it, afterwards, she was beaten the whole way home. There's a scene, you know, much later in our filming, this is probably three years after us filming this, where she describes the time she was beaten so bad and being choked. And she said it to her sister. She's like, this is what was happening to me. And her sister said something to the effect of, well, if I remember right, you were screaming like a freight train, as if there was some sort of justification for the abuse she received. They. They disagreed on the context of why she was beaten. But I think the thing that really struck me fairly early on was the amount of people that were. Would talk about the abuse they saw, the physical abuse that they saw endure.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right. Interestingly, I felt sympathy for both of them. Right. So I think it could have been set up, right, that. That there was a protagonist and an antagonist. And in terms of these two sisters. Right. And I did kind of feel it a little bit. I was like, I felt so badly for Lucy and Susan. I didn't believe Susan, but yet there was the human side of her. I feel like that you guys were able to. To show and to. I could feel her pain as well. You know, it's. And like, she really, for whatever reason, believes that her father is innocent. And so, you know, it's. It's not always easy to. To get the human out of. Out of everyone. At least that's been my experience. Like in these documentaries and these true crime documentaries, it's very easy for me to go, oh, I hate her. She's the worst. You know, and I kind of wanted to do that with Susan, but I could also kind of get. Feel her humanity and feel bad for her.

[Angus James]

Yeah, I have. You know, I mean, for those who don't know this, it's a story, you know, there's sort of five sisters at the central, you know, that I think of sort of the main characters in the story. There's two biological sisters and then there are three stepsisters. And the three stepsisters have always believed that the father of these two biological sisters, who was married to their mom, that he always killed. That he had killed her mom, their mom. But the core of it is with these two sisters, Lucy and. And Susan, who have vastly different versions of their childhood. One says their father was a murderer and beat them, and the other one's like, he was a wonderful dad and he never even hit us. It was pretty early on that I knew that the abuse was true. I had substantiated that through multiple sources. And so I knew that, you know, Lucy's sister Susan wasn't being honest with us about that or wasn't able to be honest, you know.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, right.

[Angus James]

You know.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right.

[Angus James]

But it made me think a lot. And I talked to my siblings about this. You know, there's four. Four of us. I have three siblings, and we have wildly different memories sometimes, you know, like a memory that we believe happened in the snow or that actually took place years later in the summer, according to some. Some memories that people say that that never happened.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, right.

[Angus James]

And so it. It was. And trauma actually, you know, makes memory much less reliable. And so that's. That's the hardest part about this. And I think also the most interesting part about it is it's a psychological thriller in a lot of ways because the two people who were present for the most of it were deeply traumatized. And therefore there may at times be, you know, a conscious effort to lie and conceal something or for whatever reason, for attention or to defend their father or to get people to pay attention. To this. But more often than not, what I really found was, you know, a reality that was wildly distorted from the trauma that they experienced. So there was no way of oftentimes discerning what the truth was.

[Jennifer Fessler]

How'd you get Susan to agree to do it? I would have thought that that would have been a feat.

[Angus James]

Yeah, she was really, really resistant for a while. You know, persistence. We talk to people. I mean, my. My main thing. And she's watched it, and she. You know, the feedback we've gotten was. Was mostly really positive. I. I really don't like making things that are like, gotcha things. I try to get to people's essence and who they really are, and you don't always get it. And some people don't like who they are, so they'll see something and not feel happy about it. But overwhelmingly, in my career, I'm really proud of the fact that I tackle some really tough subjects and someone watches it, and they're like, yeah, that. That's a fair representation of it. And overwhelmingly, actually, there's not a single person who's watched it who are, including the sisters and. And other people who have said, yeah, that's. That's a fair representation of me. I. I mean, Susan knows that she's the lone voice. She knows she's the only one left standing for her father. And I think. I don't want to speak for her, but my. Certainly, you know, I've had conversations with her both on camera and off. Right. And I left with a, you know, with. With a very clear feeling that she's changed in the course of making this.

[Electric For All Announcer]

Really?

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Angus James]

I think she's gone from being someone who wasn't able to explore this at all or even entertain the idea, both from a desire to, I think, both from a conscious, unconscious desire, like, I'm going to defend my father. He'd be proud of me if I defended him. I think that's conscious. The unconscious part is that I don't know if she has access to most of it, you know, but throughout the course of this, it changed into a place of, like, yeah, this is possible. It's possible.

[Jennifer Fessler]

And wow.

[Angus James]

And it could have happened. And, you know, obviously, admittance towards the end is sort of at least a recognition that she thinks that she knows where her father would have hid bodies

[Jennifer Fessler]

if he was a killer, had they been in therapy.

[Angus James]

No. Lucy, did you know this hypnotherapy, which helped her a lot.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. Right.

[Angus James]

We recorded, like, you know, a number of those sessions.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I'm sorry. I remember that. Yeah, but not.

[Angus James]

Yeah, but that was, that's, that's the extent of it that I know of.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Wow. I also, I'm wondering with both of these women because there wasn't that much in terms of like where they're at in life right now. Do they have, do they have families that are supportive of them that were around? I didn't see much of that.

[Angus James]

Yeah. Lucy's son was one of the most interesting people to talk to in this. He's obviously in.

[Jennifer Fessler]

And the one I'm Right.

[Angus James]

But, but I'll get this in a sec. But Lucy's son, I mean, you know, he, he's been this witness to his mom just like totally bankrupting them by every once in a while, you know, go every several years going on this mission to prove this. So he's sort of interesting, right, because he's sort of looking at his mom and he's just like, there's no way anyone would do this if they were, if they were telling the truth. But I certainly know there's things that Lucy has lied to me about. So there's things that she's. And I believe some of that is consciously lying, although I don't, I don't, I don't know that that's true. It's just what I believe with Susan. She has, she has family, I think, you know, mostly estranged. I think this has been, this has been really tough on her. I don't know if you can see in the course of the documentary, like the interviews, like you, you know, she, she, she. The last interview I did, I was worried about her. I didn't, she didn't look super well. I don't know if you picked up on that.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisors. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier Protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R

[Kal Penn]

protein.com hey everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive Sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now.

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Jennifer Fessler]

Learn more@meaningful beauty.com. You know, you were with these women for three years. I wonder how personally, you know, you, you have to become emotionally attached to them, have feelings for them, whether or not they are always warm feelings or suspicious feelings, but still, you know, you're involved with these people. And how did that affect you emotionally?

[Angus James]

I mean, with respect of the studies, it, you know, I would say the relationship I had, I was in an abusive relationship. You know, this is like we were berated and, and, and yelled at and screamed at. And we really think in particular Lucy's clates that we're helping her. You know, we're the ones that are listening to her more than anyone else. But she, I mean, it was, yeah, it was, it was really hard at times.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You know, thinks times you're maybe against her, doesn't trust you.

[Angus James]

I'm guessing it, it's, it's no rhyme or reason. There's deep trauma there. There's a lot of violence in the past. And I found her to be an extremely violent person, thankfully, just verbally, in our experience, but there's a lot of verbal violence.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Wow. I mean, did you ever consider, you know, throwing it away?

[Angus James]

No, I'm kind of a junkie for this stuff. You know, it's like, yeah, look, I think it's. I, I love what I do. I was a kid, I, I, you know, thought of like, gonzo journalism and just thought, wow, if I could do something like that one day. So I'm, I feel so privileged to do what I do. And even, you know, when you're in these difficult situations, like at the end of the day, I mean, I will say, like, with this, what I expected to happen didn't happen. I thought I was. After the news footage came out, I thought I was walking into something that was going to be an active investigation. And what happened here, that was much harder is that we realized fairly early on that we were the investigators and that that was a bit out of our element. Like, we've done a lot of supportive investigations, but the idea that we're the ones driving the investigation forward, that's the thing that made me think sometimes of stopping because it's like, you know, honestly, it's not really what I'm. I kind of consider myself qualified to do. It's not that I haven't been around a lot of these types of stories and, you know, hours and hours.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You're not a trained private investigator.

[Angus James]

Yeah. You know, and I would have liked law enforcement to be more involved, but we Couldn't get them. So we. We brought in, you know, forensic analysis on autopsies. We brought in people behind the scenes and on camera, We. We brought these medical examiners and also former FBI agent Stuart Fillmore, who, you know, was super helpful to have him.

[Jennifer Fessler]

He was. He was fascinating. You paid to have Lucy's stepmom's body exhumed, right?

[Angus James]

Yeah, yeah, we. I mean, we crossed every line of like, sort of like what, you know, you would think of as sort of journalism, but I think journalism also. Also really changed. Like, Newsweek had actually paid for the cadaver dogs to come and search the property. And so that's. That's Newsweek, you know, that's. That's where we sort of came into the story. But there was absolutely no way for us to substantiate these claims without exhuming the body of one of the wives. Right. So that was a big part of us. We did that. I paid for that out of my own pocket.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Serious was.

[Angus James]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I didn't feel like I could go to Paramount or any of the streamers, who I do business with all the time. Right. And say to them, hey, I have this great story you should invest in. I didn't know if it was true.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You paid for that out of your own pocket. So I don't know if this is an inappropriate question. I ask a lot of inappropriate questions. So. But, like, what does that cost?

[Angus James]

That. That was like 25, 000 up front.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You're committed, dude. Wow.

[Angus James]

I was in way more than that. I had paid for all the film. This was the farthest I had gone down the rabbit hole by a long shot. And that was. That was really scary because I was financially extended as well as, you know, and also, once you're committed financially, like, you sort of feel you need for them to be an outcome back then, you know, and if they're not. But then also there's, you know, you know, the ethical aspect of it. I mean, I'm very thankful that there's a lot of people that I talked to that didn't make it in the cup for various reasons. Some didn't want to be on camera. In particular, Don Studi's previous wives and the children, his pre. His children have previously dead. Two of them are alive and one of. One of them's like a baby mama, not a wife, but, you know, he had a child with and the other's a wife. And then those children and those stories to hear two of his previous. One wife, one woman he had a child with say, hey, he tried to kill me too, and I got away. And there's an escalation that happens, you know, usually with people like this where they, you know, try to kill someone, don't go as far, but then once they start, they don't go back. It was those sorts of testimony, along with, you know, Robert Masson, who is this guy who wasn't going to agree on camera for a long time, but who came forward and said, hey, I helped carry the body of a young woman into the woods, and Don Studdy paid me. Yeah, Those things, you know, started to give us a lot of confidence that we should. We had to keep going. Really?

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, that was. That was a. Such an interesting scene that when he just got so obviously freaked out, who wouldn't have. And. And you could just. Even in his talking about it, see, like, the terror on his face, you know, and he was carrying. He was carrying the. If I remember correctly, the torso. Right.

[Angus James]

That's what he remembered. Yeah. He was pretty high at the time, but he brought us right to the spot. I mean, he. He noticed the picture from. From. From the newspaper. He brought us right to the place. And that path where he brought us to the body, right up that path is where Lucy. About, you know, 150 yards up that hill is where the first well site that Lucy brought us to. I do have some news to break today, if you're interested.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Angus James]

All right. Well, recently, Lucy broke onto the property and she's taken some photos, and we've sent that over to Dr. Belcher, who's, you know, the. The anthropologist from University of Nesca, and. And they believe she's found the. Well,

[Jennifer Fessler]

you're. Wait a second. Hold on, hold on. You're announcing that? Am I the first person to hear this?

[Angus James]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got photos of it and everything.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Damn. Really?

[Angus James]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

What are you gonna do now?

[Angus James]

I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. I don't know. You know, I spent three years of my life on this telling a friend, like, I'm happy for it to be over because it was very intense, but I don't know. I feel like I gotta go figure that out, you know?

[Jennifer Fessler]

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really. I don't know if I'm happy for you or I'm devastated for you.

[Angus James]

I don't know. Yeah, it's. So basically what happened is there's a ravine, like where we go the side of the first well, there's a ravine just beyond that, and there was a lot of erosion. You know, since Lucy was a girl, she went up the ravine instead of going from the top and in it, she found the shaft in the, in the thing. Took all the photos of it with her. We sent those photos to Dr. Belcher. He said yep, that's a well shaft. So it's probably another, you know, anywhere to 60 to 80ft down from there is where the bottom of that well would be. So that's what has to be tested to see if there are human remains there.

[Jennifer Fessler]

And are you, I don't know if these questions are that relevant but like you have to take this on just you. Is there law enforcement going to jump in now or is this going to all fall on you?

[Angus James]

We continue to send everything we find to law enforcement. We're trying to get this, you know, 612 page FBI report on Don Stewart. He released. It's like a backlog, it says 10 years to get that released. So I think we have six and a little bit to go but we're still pushing for that. We send everything we can to the local coroner's office. We just got word that the coroner who had really blown us off for a long time and more importantly blown off Charlotte studies three daughters. Right. So Charlotte's and they live in Omaha. They pay taxes in Omaha. And it's been really frustrating because for some reason the coroner despite this overwhelming evidence to say okay, well nobody who's looked at this says that's a suicide. One medical examiner said I can't determine but that moves off. Suicide is a big move. And another one who's really renowned expert in, in suicides across all of America said this is definitively a homicide. Despite that, despite the report from FBI Agent Stewart, former agent Stuart Fillmore saying this from all the documents he's seen is this is a stage crime scene. And he would say that the police investigation was either incompetence or corrupt. Right. That's his, his analysis. Despite that we got crickets out of them. And then anytime Don Marie and Charlotte contacted the corner, he said we're standing by our decision. That was it. But I think given the airing of the show and this preponders of evidence we keep putting towards them, finally they said they're taking another look at it. So that's another thing.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Really happy girls have any. Do you think that they may have any financial recourse?

[Angus James]

The whole. It was really, really smart what happened, which I didn't get. I wasn't able to get this much into the the three part series. But basically what the reason they were able to get the initial police report released. So there was this full police report. There's the short one that is public record, but there's a full police report of what happened to their mom. And as you remember, when I'm interviewing one of the officers to ask, why can't we have that police report? He says it's sealed. It's Omaha policy, which was really distressing to us, but also especially to her daughter, saying, if you believe this is a suicide, why can't you show us the full report? We can't, we can't, we can't. What they did was they filed a case in court with an attorney as a probate case because they said, this is a documentary being made on our mom and probate is about a, about an estate, the value of estate. So by the attorney saying this is a probate case, this potentially could be worth money. That's their inheritance. That's the only way they got Omaha to release the police report out of, you know, using this probate law. So it's very crafty by the attorney who filed the case.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's smart. Do you think they will go for damages?

[Angus James]

I don't think so. I don't, I don't have the sense that that's what this is about.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Isn't it eventually always about that? I don't know. I mean, that's just my.

[Angus James]

I think if it was a cover up, you know, if, if this was. And I don't know how easy that will be to prove. But, you know, I think if it's, you know, I think it depends what. Yeah. What. What comes up. If, look, if this is all a willful and deliberate attempt to cons to right day to still conceal something happened a while ago, I mean, that's horrific.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I would like to see that for them. Right.

[Angus James]

I mean, I have to believe, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, that there was a cover up back then and today it's more of like, let's not look too much a zag on the face. We don't want to deal with it. We have other things. And they also have other things going on that are about active, you know, investigations of a current murder. But I don't know, it's. It's very strange. It's certainly very strange.

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[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier Protein Shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense gym sessions, it's just for life. With the wide variety of flavors from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. There's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein empowers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.

[Kal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive Sci Fi Adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo yo yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought about it, I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that, that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah dude, me too.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to Irsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Jennifer Fessler]

So let's talk about the sister. She was quite the character, the Marilyn Monroe of it all. What an interesting woman. Just, I mean just in terms of like I would think, I mean a filmmaker's perspective. Right. Just to her demeanor. She, you know, out. Had just been out of prison. This is her, you know, on. This is her dying wish is to uncover the truth. Then the fact that she died. What is it, two months after.

[Angus James]

Yeah, two months after she gave upstairs interview. She died. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

How did she die? I'm just curious.

[Angus James]

She had, she had a, a long thing. I mean she was left in prison because, you know, because of, of her failing health. So she was let out knowing she was, you know, she was going to die soon. I, we didn't think it'd be that soon, but yeah, it was, it was surprising for us.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, she's. Yeah. So when she admitted that when she Said that she truly believed that he killed a hundred, at least a hundred people. That was quite a moment. Right. And the way she said it so sort of matter of factly, it freaked me out. Right. So much of this is like, I'm watching it and, you know, it's. You're listening to Lucy and you're listening to the stories of the mothers and the girlfriends and then a hundred people. So how was this guy, you know, how did he get away with this? Because it's one thing, if it's so incestuous, it's another. Now we're talking about. And I don't know if it actually was 100 people. Do you believe that it was maybe that.

[Angus James]

There's no way for me to know that, but I. I know that she told me. And like, yeah, for a while when we interviewed her, I was like, maybe she's just our main character. You know, it's this sort of this person who gets out of prison. She. She was in prison for, you know, attempted murder for bludgeoning her boyfriend. I mean, runs. This is incredibly violent family. You know, very, very strange childhood. You know, their mom, Don, and. And Marilyn's mom was a prostitute. She was a couple decades younger than her father. Father was terribly abusive. They fit all the prototype. Don fits the prototype of this sort of, you know, serial killer. So there's all these sort of strange things. There's all these stories of childhood. And anyway, she. She watched Don dissolve a body into a vat of acid one time that she told us about. Right. And then. And then she. She watched Don kill her rapist. She was raped by this guy when she was younger. And I think she genuinely was pleased when John Don killed her rapist.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, no, that felt very apparent and that she was not only pleased, but really proud.

[Angus James]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

And, you know, you guys didn't delve too much into the story of the rape, but she said, you know, you sure that's him? Yeah, and she said, yes, I'm sure. And he went in there and then he took the money from the cash register. But, like, there's all of this stuff, right? Still hanging, like. Okay, so let's go with. He was the rapist. Who. I mean, you know, that not part of this story. Right. But what if he wasn't? But okay, let's say he was. Where are the cops? How did that not get traced? I don't get it. It's not that long ago.

[Angus James]

Absolutely. And. And, and also, you know, it's the same is true with this story of that Lucy Says that her father beat. I mean, we investigated that thoroughly and we couldn't find anybody who was murdered at that place around that time. We never found any evidence of that. However, what I will tell you is multiple people, including people we couldn't include in this because they wouldn't agree on camera. All had first hands that Don was a hitman for the mob. What it. What the rumor was that he was in the hole and gambling debts to the mob. And he. Instead of killing him, he basically was like, well, I can kill anyone you want. And so he would get these letters of envelopes that multiple people saw, including his sister Marilyn with names on them, and that. That was why the number was 100. That's so she doesn't believe he was sort of 100 because there was a hundred women he lured there. She believes over 100 because of his ties to the mob and, and all the hits that he did on their behalf. And that's what the rumor is that maybe the 612 FBI page report that exists.

[Jennifer Fessler]

So that's a whole other level of corruption, potentially, I would think. Right.

[Angus James]

That's the only thing for me that explains it. Right. If you're. If he was an FBI informant of any kind or an interesting person, then when he gets these charges of these women that are beaten, there's just sort of something in the file or someone that's saying, don't. Don't worry about him too much. Don't look too close. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. That's the only thing that ever really happens to me.

[Jennifer Fessler]

They lived in like a trailer from what I remember. Right. Did they live in that yellow. I can't. What was the house like?

[Angus James]

Yeah, it's the exact opposite of the story, like making of a murder. Making a murder. Right. The guy is poor, and poor people tend to be disenfranchised by the system. This. For this guy to live in the type of place he did to be such a nuisance to local law enforcement to be.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Remind me, because I saw there were a couple of different. Different houses. I feel like I saw the yell. They grew up in a trip. Was it not a trail?

[Angus James]

It was a trailer home. You know, Trailer home.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Oh, he's. He's a hitman. Where's all the money?

[Angus James]

Well, I mean, he, He. He didn't have a job for years and years and years. So the question is sort of how did he support himself and, you know, he prostitute. You know, he didn't. He certainly didn't live a lavish life, but he, He Traveled around a lot. I mean, there was several years of his life where he lived on the road for four years, you know, at a time. So. And he was, he was known to be like the world's worst gambler. Like, apparently he just never won is what people, Friends said and stuff. So, you know, I think he gambled a lot of it away.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Angus James]

Yeah. But I don't think it was that much. I don't know how much money it was. I think he was sort of this, you know, nobody who, you know, got scraps off the table for doing whatever he did.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. I have all these questions about whether or not you think that Lucy made up the wells. If, you know, how you didn't sort of give up on it and now you come to us with this brand new information.

[Angus James]

Well, I can, I can answer that question. I mean, basically the. I know that there was 23 wells on that property at the turn of the 20th century. There were these very poor people living in this area that's, you know, and, and they lived in sort of like caves even. And I know this sounds far fetched, but there's articles in the Omaha paper about this. And even in the 50s, the 1950s, almost like, do you want to know how the poor people live? Go up there and you'll see them. And that there was, it was this article that was sort of written about like the backwoods people. Right. So there's always this mythical place going back 100 plus years of people lived in the hills, people lived in caves. So turn of the 20th century, the government was like, we're going to dig a well which is 100ft down to the water about, and a cistern which is where they can put that water and build these homes for people who are living off the land and living in caves. That's true. That's documented. And, and so we know the wells are there. Right. So it wasn't really about whether or not the wells exist. It's like, are there human remains down the well is when Don called the current landowner and said, hey, did you ever find any human remains with the well? Is that, was that him laughing about it instead of. Or was that him bragging? Because there's a lot of people that, that say, Don love to brag about his, you know, what, what, what, what he did. What I always believed for the longest time was that Lucy reappropriated her traumatic memories of her mom's being murdered, her mother, her stepmother, and stepmother into this story of the wells. I thought that it was possible that and likely that her father was some version of a hitman, because I've heard that story enough to believe it. And I believe that he's the type of person that killed people. You know, his cousin told us the story. He watched him take a brick and just bludgeon someone until they were almost, you know, dead. So we had all these stories and accounts of him being incredibly violent. You know, he beat his wife and to the point that she was almost dead and hospitalized. I mean, there's no reason why he wouldn't have killed his wives. But I, I sort of tend to believe that because anytime I asked Lucy about the moms, I'm really depressed. She couldn't stay there for long before she switched to the women in the well. And I just thought it was some sort of, like, I can't face the fact that he murdered my mom. And this is just what, what I thought it was sort, you know, was that.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You have a background in psychotherapy yourself.

[Angus James]

No, I. I did consult someone throughout the. Throughout the entirety of making this and sort of would play clips and ask their advice and things like that. But now, other than having done some now. But I think, but I think, I think that I just don't know. And it's really. I really, you know, I don't think it. I'm like the best when I'm trying to know things that I don't know. I think I'm at my best when I just focus on what I know. You know, I follow the lead, follow the investigation and try not to fill in the gaps. Just follow what you know. Otherwise you can get in kind of trouble with these things because this, it's really hard work to figure this stuff out. You know, even for someone trained like Stuart Fillmore who watch footage for us and did everything, you know, it's. It's incredibly difficult to know.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. Better you than me, my friend. I don't know. I can't even imagine this journey that you've been on. And I can help. So where just in your head, I know this all news just happened today. What now? Are you going to go back to this place?

[Angus James]

Yeah, if we can get access back to the land. Yeah, we have to go test it. It's not, it's not, not. It's not, you know, cheap to sort of run those kinds of core drill tests. So I think we'd be better off digging it up. So it's just whether or not we can get the access to do that. But, you know, certainly I'd be thrilled if local Law enforcement took it on. Right. I don't need to be the one doing this by any means.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right. So in terms of other projects and other documentaries, where does this fall? I'm just curious, like, did. I don't know. I don't know what word to use. I don't know if you enjoy. You. Obviously you love what you do, but would you. Was this a satisfying one for you? I would think it would have been one of the less sort of satisfying ones, only because it's. There's still so many questions and it seems that it was just so rough.

[Angus James]

I went into this really being captivated by the story of the family, story about the. About the wives. And I left with full satisfaction that. That this, this man murdered his wives, at least two of them sisters, had

[Jennifer Fessler]

the closure that they needed. That was.

[Angus James]

Yeah, yeah. For me, that was. That was really always what it's almost about.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Angus James]

But so, like, for me, what I like, I know I like a psychological thriller. And I think that what this reminds me of is just like we never will really. We never really know a person's mind, you know, and you can, you know, for me, this started off as investigation to find the truth and where it. It ended up was just a fascinating, you know, step into our psyche.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Angus James]

Psyche of people who were traumatized. So for me, that was. There's so many takeaways in that. Right. Like. And I feel like, endless empathy for what the Studi daughters went through, despite how difficult they were with me, despite, you know, how. How trying I was dealing with them. I mean, these are deeply traumatized.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yes.

[Angus James]

Women. And. Yeah, I have, I have endless.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I felt that too. I mean, and that's, I guess. Right, that's your point, is to try to get me to feel it as well. And I did. So congratulations. I thought the whole thing was absolutely fascinating.

[Angus James]

Thanks so much.

[Kal Penn]

We.

[Angus James]

We edit it in like rapid time. I wish in a lot of these things have many more months than us. So, you know, it was a race to the finish to get it out in a. In a lower budget. But it's, It's. It's really cool to see. We just got some, you know, sneak into some numbers from our agents and it's. It's right up there. It's.

[Jennifer Fessler]

It's really.

[Angus James]

A lot of people are watching, so it's very cool.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, I'm so glad. Thanks. So glad. Keep in touch with us, please.

[Angus James]

Thanks so much. I really appreciate the time.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Okay, bye.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang we all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier Protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. The 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense gym sessions, it's just for life. With a wide variety of flavors from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. It's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers

[Kal Penn]

hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Angus James]

Money.

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[Sophia Donner]

this is Sophia Donner from OK Storytime this summer. Find your next obsession on Prime Video and listen. We're not saying you need another obsession, but there could be a lot worse ones. Steamy romance, addictive love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice, so why not watch them a third time off campus? L the Love Hypothesis and more Slow Burns Second Chances chemistry you can feel through the screen and it makes you wish you were actually in that movie. We've got Binge worthy series can't miss movies. Perfect for when you're ignoring your own problems or procrastinating as one does. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. This is an I heart podcast.

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