Killer Thriller Docu: From Van Life To Missing, America Wanted To Find Her Daughter Gabby Petito

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present

Killer Thriller Docu: From Van Life To Missing, America Wanted To Find Her Daughter Gabby Petito

Release Date: May 23, 2026
Host: Jennifer Fessler
Guest: Nicole Schmidt, mother of Gabby Petito

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Overview

This deeply moving episode centers on the Netflix documentary about Gabby Petito, whose disappearance and murder gripped the nation in 2021 and launched an urgent conversation about domestic violence. Host Jennifer Fessler is joined by Gabby’s mother, Nicole Schmidt, who discusses the impact of the doc, shares poignant memories of her daughter, and speaks openly about the failures of the system and her ongoing advocacy to protect other families from similar tragedy. The episode explores the complexities of recognizing abuse, the pain of public scrutiny, and how Nicole is channeling her grief into meaningful change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Remembering Gabby: Character and Family

• Nicole describes Gabby:
  • “She was a ray of light in our lives, and we miss her so very much.” (05:47)
  • Gabby was deeply creative, fearless, and not only sweet but also “would fight for what was right.” (06:54)
  • The family dynamic was loving and cohesive despite divorce: “She’s had four parents since she was a baby.” (10:58)
  • Gabby’s love for travel, art, and family are highlighted, along with her vibrant, joyful spirit. (09:05)

The Documentary’s Impact

• Filming was raw and difficult: “We were basically crying throughout the whole process.” (07:32)
• Educational value: Nicole is proud that the documentary sparks conversations about domestic violence, especially among young women and their parents.
• Personal healing: Grateful for the time spent with Gabby, Nicole finds solace that “we did get to find her and bring her home,” noting that many never get that closure. (09:05)

Family Support After Tragedy

• Strong cooperation: After Gabby’s service, the four parental figures launched the Gabby Petito Foundation and continue to support each other. “We have each other to lean on…It makes it work.” (12:39)
• Sibling perspective: Nicole’s son felt survivor’s guilt but was reassured: “There was only one person that was responsible for taking her life.” (13:21)

Recognizing Abuse and Hidden Red Flags

• On Brian Laundrie: Nicole initially found him polite and kind, warning that “an abuser looks like anyone. They could be hiding it very well.” (15:05)
• Manipulative behaviors: Brian isolated Gabby from her support system, gaslit her, and manipulated her from the start.
• Mother’s perspective: Nicole shares the challenge of seeing red flags in real time: “I just didn’t know what red flags looked like.” (18:07)

Notable Quote

• “Don’t have this picture in your mind of what you think an abuser looks like, because it could really be anyone, and they could be hiding it very well.” — Nicole Schmidt (15:30)

The Moab Police Encounter

• Body cam revelation: Nicole first saw the police stop along with the world during Gabby’s search. She now uses the footage to train others on spotting domestic violence. (19:29)
• Key red flags in footage:
  • Gabby apologizing needlessly and minimizing her own distress.
  • Brian remaining calm, deflecting blame, labeling Gabby as “crazy,” and other controlling behaviors (20:11–21:00)
• Systemic failures:
  • Police labeled Brian the victim despite telltale signs, missing critical intervention opportunities.
  • “The system failed, Gabby. And the system fails victims and survivors time and time again.” (27:11)

Notable Moments

• “I knew that there was a police stop that day...but not until I saw the body cam footage that I knew what really happened. And I was shocked.” — Nicole Schmidt (19:37)
• “They definitely knew the pattern because Officer Pratt says...these women go back time and time again and they end up getting killed. He says that himself in the video. So he knew what was going on.” (23:03)

Domestic Violence Epidemic and Prevention

• Statistics: “It’s about six [women murdered] a day in our country, on average.” (27:34)
• Advocacy for change:
  • Nicole’s family focuses on first responder training, promotion of lethality assessments, and court reforms for using evidence rather than victim testimony.
  • Stresses the desperate need for standardized protocols across the US and preventative education in schools.

Notable Quote

• “We really are fighting to regulate the way this is dealt with, but also work in prevention, because the only way we’re going to make those numbers go down is if we prevent it.” — Nicole Schmidt (33:14)

Media Attention During the Search

• Mass public support:
  • Nicole found comfort in the global attention—“you want the whole world looking for them. And that’s exactly what we got.” (40:56)
  • However, she felt that protesting outside the Laundrie family home was “counterproductive.”
• Gabby’s legacy: “I feel like her spirit is doing [what she said]: ‘I’m going to be found and I’m going to change the world.’” (42:17)

Living With Loss and Creating Change

• Resilience and purpose: Nicole balances raw grief (“Sometimes I need to...curl up into a ball”) with advocacy, believing Gabby “chose us for this.” (43:04)
• Listener impact: Messages like “because of Gabby, I’m alive today” or “because of Gabby, my kids are still here” keep her motivated. (43:04)

Broader Societal Reflection: Femicide and Accountability

• Definition of femicide: “Women are being killed. When you walk to your car at night...we’re thinking, is somebody gonna attack me?...Men need to step up and do more to help protect women.” (46:28–47:30)
• Change requires male accountability: “Domestic violence isn’t going to even come close to ending until men say it does, because they’re the ones killing.” (47:30)

Notable Quote

• “Men have to call out other men. The good men have to take accountability and call out the ones that are doing it instead of just turning a blind eye.” — Nicole Schmidt (47:30)

Justice and Closure

• Nicole is ultimately relieved not to have faced a trial for Brian Laundrie: “I think it was just meant to be…He’ll never get anywhere near Gabby.” (47:58)

Upcoming “Crime Unfiltered” Tour

• Nicole, alongside other high-profile families affected by tragedy, will participate in a tour to share their stories and educate the public. “We are true crime stories to the rest of the world…But to get in front of people so they could see that we’re real people, we’re real families—these things can happen to anyone.” (49:06)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “She was sunshine. She just was sunshine.” — Jennifer Fessler (04:41)
• “She had a great attitude because if she saw someone being mean to someone else, she would actually stick up for that person. She was totally fearless.” — Nicole Schmidt (06:54)
• “He...tore her down little by little until she didn’t even know what was going on anymore.” — Nicole Schmidt (15:05)
• “How is it possible they got that [domestic violence] call and did not immediately protect your daughter?...that was a lot of reasons.” — Jennifer Fessler (21:56)
• “Because of Gabby, I’m alive today. Because of Gabby, my kids are still here...There’s just so many positive outcomes.” — Nicole Schmidt (43:04)
• “We want to connect you to a victim advocate immediately because you should not be with this person anymore.” — Nicole Schmidt (32:43)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:19 — Introduction & recap of Gabby’s story
• 04:41 — Jennifer and Nicole reflect on Gabby’s presence and family memories
• 07:32 — Discussion on the documentary’s making and impact
• 13:21 — Sibling perspectives and guilt
• 15:05 — First impressions of Brian Laundrie and warning about hidden abusers
• 19:29 — Moab police stop, body cam footage, and its use for training
• 27:11 — Systemic failure and prevalence of domestic violence
• 31:57 — Efforts to reform training and domestic violence policing
• 40:56 — The media frenzy and its effect on the family
• 47:30 — Reflecting on femicide and urgent need for male accountability
• 49:06 — Announcement and mission of “Crime Unfiltered” tour
• 52:13 — Final words: hope, gratitude, and Gabby’s enduring legacy

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Tone & Closing Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Nicole is candid, warm, and resilient—never shying away from expressing pain, but always focusing on the light Gabby brought and continues to bring to the world. The conversation is tender and unflinching, spotlighting the urgent need for better education, intervention, and accountability around domestic violence. Jennifer Fessler honors Nicole’s vulnerability and advocacy, closing with a heartfelt tribute to Gabby's enduring influence.

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Transcript

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[Jennifer Fessler]

Hi you guys. Welcome back to Killer Thriller Docu edition. I'm your host Jennifer Fessler and today we are talking about an episode that carries an incredible amount of weight and heartbreak and importance. Today we are talking about the Netflix documentary American Gabby Petito. We are joined by Nicole Schmidt, the mother of Gabby Petito, whose story captured the attention of millions, including myself, around the world. In 2021, Gabby was a 22 year old travel vlogger documenting a cross county road trip with her fiance Brian Laundrie when she suddenly disappeared. And what became a missing persons case quickly also became one of the most w widely followed true crime stories in recent history. After nationwide searching and non stop media coverage, Gabby's body was discovered in Wyoming and investigators determined she had been the victim of a homicide. Since Gabby's death, Nicole has become an advocate for domestic violence awareness and victim support through the Gabby Petito foundation, working to help other families recognize warning signs and find resources before tragedy strikes. So this one hits a little differently for me because I just remember hearing about it so vividly it doesn't seem like it was long ago that it happened. And this documentary, this was a tough one to watch and I am very grateful to have Nicole join us today. Hi Nicole.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Hi, how are you?

[Jennifer Fessler]

I'm really, really grateful that you are joining us. And I have to tell you, watching the documentary and I've known the story, it doesn't feel like long ago. Maybe it does to you for me that it actually happened. And I remember seeing Gabby's beautiful face everywhere. But I wasn't in touch with just her whole, I don't know, essence. Is that the word? Until watching the documentary and already I'm going to get choked up. But your daughter was sunshine. She just was sunshine. I mean, I don't even know that's what struck me. Maybe, you know, as A viewer of it. It just is a different experience when you're seeing it on the news. And I remember hearing her voice, but watching this documentary, watch. Watching you guys, and I think you look so much or she looks so much like you. And I'm so very sorry for your loss. There aren't enough words to tell you how sorry that I am, and I'm. I'm sure you hear that every day. But anyway. Not really anyway, but thank you for joining us. I can't imagine this kind of thing is easy for you to do. Have you been doing a lot of podcasts?

[Nicole Schmidt]

I do a few here and there. It's not easy to talk about, but we actually travel around and speak on what happened to Gabby to share her story so others can learn from what. What happened and hopefully prevent it from happening to others. So yesterday, for example, I was just doing a session on strangulation at Crimes Against Women conference in Dallas. So these are things that we need to learn, and I do feel that it's making a difference. And I love that you called her Sunshine, because that is exactly what she was. She was a ray of light in our lives, and we miss her so very much.

[Jennifer Fessler]

It just struck me. It's like she just seemed like that girl who this. Her smile, like, just her voice, the intonations, the sweetness. She. This, like, just. She just radiated warmth, you know, and. Which is, of course, in part a huge credit to her mother. So she just seemed like a really. Like a. Just a really happy, kind young woman and creative and all the other things.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah, Gabby was. She was tenacious. She wasn't just a sweet little innocent flower. She had. She had a great attitude because if she saw someone being mean to someone else, she would actually stick up for that person. She was totally fearless, and she would fight for what was right. So she had kind of both sides. She was sweet and gentle, but she was also tough, and I think that just made her really special. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

When you. So watching the documentary, how do you feel about it? How do you feel about how it portrayed the events and Gabby and I guess, and Brian and how did you feel after watching it?

[Nicole Schmidt]

It's really hard to watch. It was really hard to film. It was difficult to do the long interviews and send them all the photos and videos. I mean, we were basically crying throughout the whole process. But once it was done, we feel like it did its job. It has an educational piece behind it, and it gets young women watching it with their parents and asking questions and starts the conversation about domestic violence. And I really think that in that way it's been used for good and so we're really proud of it and I'm glad we did it and I'm glad we got to tell her story.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah, I mean I have a 23 soon to be 24 year old daughter and it was unfortunately, I guess, but very eye opening to me. Thinking in terms of like a mother because I think, I don't know how old you are. I'm 57. But thinking about what would I say to Rachel if I didn't know a boy that she was. Which has been the case certainly, you know, many times she's gone out with boys that I don't know that well. It made me sort of like think to myself, well, do I tell her now she's gonna date someone new? And so I guess all of that is good. Thanks to Gabby. Thanks to, you know, her story and you're sharing it. I mean, I, I don't know if any of that brings you comfort. I hope so. I mean, are there certain memories of her that do bring you comfort now? You know, outside of like doing all of this good in the world that you're doing?

[Nicole Schmidt]

We absolutely have a lot of great memories. She lived a very full life. She loved to travel. She was the oldest of six. Her dad has two boy, two boys and I have a boy and two girls. So she had plenty of siblings and she was an artist. I mean she was such a fantastic artist. She could draw her, her portrait perfectly or self portrait. I actually bought her a tattoo gun before she went on the trip and she gave her brother a tattoo. I told her not to do any humans until she practiced hers, but she was a natural, just like I figured she would be. And yeah, I just, I just miss spending time with her, laughing with her. She's just, she was just an amazing person. But we are grateful. We are so grateful for that time we had with her. We are also so grateful that after what happened, we did get to find her and bring her home because we work with a lot of families that don't get to do that.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right. You know another thing that struck me, I didn't know that, you know, in terms of your ex husband and your husband and your ex husband's wife and all of these people that loved her so much. I myself am, I have, I've had many step parents and I think it's an. I think it's unusual. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see the love in your husband's voice and the way that he talked about what happened? And her. And then your ex husband's wife, who was so flattened by this as well. She was. So it seems like your dynamic, the family dynamic was really good. And I believe you even talked about when you would first split up. You were just. It was amicable, right? Like you got married or you got together very young. You were pregnant, from what I remember. But it seems like the four of you have something nice. That's how I like to think about it. At least I'm not, you know. Do you tell me anything more about that?

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah. So Joe and I were 20 years old when we had Gabby. We ended up. He tried to do the noble thing. We got engaged, but about six months old. When Gabby was six months old, we just. We don't know. We were young. We weren't ready to spend our lives together at that point. We were. We were fine. It wasn't that we were fighting or we didn't like each other. It was really amicable, like you said, and we just decided to part ways. But he stayed very, very active in Gabby's life, even as a young dad. I would drop her off over there and, you know, so especially so she could see her grandparents and stuff. And then Tara came into Gabby's life when she was just over one, and so she's been around forever. My husband Jim came into Gabby's life when she was two and a half. So she's had four parents since she was a baby.

[Jennifer Fessler]

That is such a generous thing for you to say as the mother. I mean, I feel like that obviously the four of you loved her. You all just felt like she was. She was the daughter of all four of you, but how wonderful for her. I know I'm here to tell you, and you already know, it doesn't happen like that all the time.

[Nicole Schmidt]

I'm happy.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I'm happy for her that she had. She got to experience, like, that kind of love and the siblings and that there wasn't the chaos that I think probably most times comes with divorce.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah. And I think she was spoiled a little bit. Like, if one parent said no, she'd try to find one that said yes.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right. Well, there are four of them, so.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yes. And if we all said no, she'd go to her grandparents. She had plenty of those. So. Yeah, she was. She had a big family. I'm glad.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Are you guys still able to support each other? Do you.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So we've actually gotten really close, and after Gabby's service, we started the Gabby Petito foundation, and we've been Working together since we started it. And I travel with Tara all the time. I've traveled with Joe, Jim has traveled with Joe and Tara. We've all kind of done things together. It's. It's really been amazing. We have each other to lean on. We all do very different things. And the four of us coming together, we have different jobs in the foundation. It makes it work. So it just. We are so grateful that we have each other.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Wow. I am, too. So this is. I'm all over the place. Please forgive me. But also, I want to know about the siblings and how they're doing.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Oh, my gosh. So my son is 22. We never really had a deep conversation about it. I think he. He has a lot of guilt, and I think that he. Because he's the older brother. He's the oldest brother. He's younger brother for her, but he's the oldest brother. So, yeah, I think when she came up for his graduation, right before she left for the trip, she took her brother TJ On a camping trip as his graduation gift. And it was her, Brian and TJ and then after everything happened, he thought, why didn't I see anything? Why did. Why wouldn't she tell me anything? How come I didn't know? Like, he just felt guilty. And I told him that none of us can feel guilty. There was only one person that was responsible for taking her life. And although if we were educated and we knew, we talk about knowing red flags, and that's why we educate students and parents and everybody now, we can't take the blame for something that somebody who's evil did to her. And he hid it very well from us. We all thought Brian was from it. Yes.

[Jennifer Fessler]

As a viewer of it, I was waiting to get the, like, ah, until the signs that were so over. But I was still like, you know, kind of like side eyeing at the beginning of the documentary, watching their relationship be described and. And the video and everything on him, I'm like, all right, what am I going to see? The evil, right, Come out? And it. I. I kept waiting for that moment, and it became. Obviously it did come out, but it was not something that as a mother, I don't think I would have recognized at all. I don't think anybody could have. Would have. But what did you think of him then when you first met him? Just nice kid, quiet, just.

[Nicole Schmidt]

He seemed very kind, very polite. He would, you know, appease the younger sisters by sitting down and drawing with them and stuff. He was just. He just seemed like he fit right in. Not Your typical narcissist. You know, we hear a lot about abusers being narcissists, and they're loud and they're obnoxious and they want to be the, you know, the one in the room that's the smartest person in the room.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Right.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Brian was not like that. He was very, very quiet. So I tell people, don't. Don't have this picture in your mind of what you think an abuser looks like, because it could really be anyone, and they could be hiding it very well. And, you know, now looking back on text mess and. And letters they wrote each other, I have all her stuff, so I'm able. I was able to sign into her, you know, her icloud account and look at texts. And I see that he was manipulating her from day one. He. He definitely tore her down little by little until she didn't even know what was going on anymore. She was confused and she was living in trauma.

[Jennifer Fessler]

So you could see it in the documentary. You guys did an unbelievable job. So you can see it. I'm. When I first though, when we were first introduced to him, it's very understandable, at least from my point of view. I couldn't, like, this kid is going to turn out to be so, so evil. It was very like I was. But there were things, like, for instance, when he called you to tell you that she was hanging around with bad people. Yeah, that was especially with what we know now. But, like, that was just so messed up.

[Nicole Schmidt]

And I believed him.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You did? You thought he was being sincere?

[Nicole Schmidt]

I thought he was worried about her. He sounded concerned. He said that this one person she was hanging out with, I believe it was at Taco Bell, when she was working at Taco Bell, that the people there were bad influence, and he thought that they were into drugs and he was concerned for her. And I. I did call her and I was like, gabby, what's going on? What. Why? Who are you hanging out with? Brian seems really worried about you. And she got really upset. Upset. And she was like, I can't believe you would believe him. But I didn't have any reason not to, and I wasn't there. And he made it sound so sincere, like he was really, really concerned and worried about her. But I've seen the text messages in response to that. He said, your mom is so stupid. I told her not to tell you that I called. So, yeah, so that was the other side of him that I wasn't seeing at the time.

[Jennifer Fessler]

How do you, like, how do you as a mom know that that's going on. I don't. So, like, looking back at it now, you know, I don't. It feels like to me that it would be absolutely impossible. I'm trying to. Again, I keep trying to put myself as a mother in your shoes and imagine some boy that Rachel was my daughter was seeing and getting that text. Like, should that have been a warning sign to me? Like, what do you do with that information? To me, I just would have said, rachel, who. Who are you hanging out with? It would seem so caring of the boyfriend.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Right. It's hard to discern at the time, but I think that that was his way of trying to create distance between the two of us. They tried to isolate you from your support system. And Gabby and I were so close, we would talk all the time, that he didn't want that anymore. And he was doing anything in his power to prevent her from telling me things that were going on because I think he was afraid that she was going to disclose. But she. She did not. She never specifically said anything. But looking back, since I've learned about domestic violence and the patterns, I did see red flags. I just didn't know what they were. I didn't know what red flags looked like. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

How could you?

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah. We're not educated. We don't know. You don't know what? You don't know? Yeah. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You know, but it's interesting because watching the video from Moab, that was.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Way eye opening. Right. Because, like, all of a sudden it's like, wait a second. This guy is good. Like, look at him doing his thing. And I don't know. I mean, the first time you saw that, how was that for? It was off, obviously, was awful. But, like.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I mean, did you see things in that? Did things become like, wow, he really. He was good at this, at manipulation and at lying and it. You know.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah. The first time I saw it was with the rest of the world when it was released.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Are you serious? Really?

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah. It was while she was missing.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Oh, my gosh.

[Nicole Schmidt]

And I knew that there was a police stop that day, and I knew they had an argument because I talked to her that day, but not until I saw the body cam footage that I knew what really happened. And I was shocked. And now I use that video for training. Police officers use it for training. I watch it now and I find something new every time. And I can see every. Every marker of domestic violence. The patterns are in that video alone. And that's why it's so good for training.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Please tell me. Please, please Tell me about some of those.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Well, so the way that he blames her and flips it around so quickly, and she's apologizing. She says, I'm sorry.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I know it's heartbreaking.

[Nicole Schmidt]

First thing she says, right? Like, what are you sorry for?

[Jennifer Fessler]

Awful.

[Nicole Schmidt]

When he says, she grabbed the steering wheel. And she said. She later says, I did not grab the steering wheel. Yet she's taking responsibility for other things. Being honest, I did not grab the steering wheel. He blamed her for, you know, the car swerving. Because of that, he had marks on him. He was calm. She was erratic. Look at her body language. Those are all red flags. Yeah. They should have not only used the clues of her body language, but the things that she said, like, he grabbed my face. That's a very controlling behavior.

[Jennifer Fessler]

That.

[Nicole Schmidt]

That behavior is him telling Gabby, I can take control of you. And that also is an indication of prior strangulation. Any kind of facial airway, neck touching is a clue that. That he's a strangler. She did disclose to her friend Rose that he did strangle prior and that he enjoyed it.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I'm gonna throw up.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Made Gabby uncomfortable. He used sexual strangulation as a way to desensitize her from knowing that it was something that he could use to stop her from.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Was that in the documentary, Nicole? I don't know. Did I just block it out?

[Nicole Schmidt]

I feel like I don't remember if I mentioned it or not.

[Jennifer Fessler]

That's just.

[Nicole Schmidt]

It was. Yeah, I. I honestly only watched the documentary once, and I sure. I still blocked it out. So. Yeah, it's hard for me.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I might have blocked it out myself, but, yeah.

[Nicole Schmidt]

And there's a lot.

[Jennifer Fessler]

The fury of hearing that. The 911 call and thinking that he's hitting her. What is. This is not like. How in the world do you get a the. I'm sure this is obviously one of the Banes of your existence, but how is it possible they got that call and did not immediately protect your daughter? I don't know, but that was a lot of reasons.

[Nicole Schmidt]

First of all, that 911 caller, I always praise him because a lot of people look away. And he actually did, too.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I thought that, too. Yeah.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah, he was fantastic. He had every detail right. And that day, when they pulled them over, they were supposed to do certain things as a domestic call. Somebody was supposed to get arrested. They were all supposed to use a lethality assessment, which is basically asking questions to find out if somebody's at risk of being killed by their partner. But they labeled Brian the victim Pretty quickly.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I know, and I saw that.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah, he. He says multiple times in the video that she's maybe a hundred pounds soaking wet and she's this tiny little thing. And he. It's, it's just, it confuses me with all the details that she gave them, even though she didn't say. And a lot of people think a victim should say I am being abused straight out. They're not going to say that. They should have used their knowledge of the pattern. And they definitely knew the pattern because Officer Pratt says in the video, these women go back time and time again and they end up getting killed. He says that himself in the video. So he knew what was going on. He knows the pattern. He saw the pattern. But for some reason they.

[Jennifer Fessler]

What reason? What reason do you think?

[Nicole Schmidt]

Well, I think one reason is there's an alleged history of abuse from the officer. The officer has a history from what we've heard through our lawyers and such. And I think there's a bias there. And then these abusers are good at manipulating. Look at Brian. He was calm. He wasn't the one freaking out. He said that Gabby was crazy. And now you have these men who believe these things already inherently as men, they think women are crazy. So then they talk about that in the video as well. And then. So Gabby's automatically labeled the one that attacked Brian, she's crazy. And the second witness that they spoke to saw Gabby retaliating and said that he saw Gabby looked like she was hitting Brian. So the officer spoke to that witness, but he was leading the witness saying, so this is what you saw? Is this what you saw? And he was describing it. And the witness said, yeah, that sounds about right. You know, just, just the whole thing was horrible.

[Jennifer Fessler]

And the female. There were female officers obviously on the scene as well.

[Nicole Schmidt]

I have nothing to say about her. That was completely useless. She, she could have give. Given Gabby a trauma informed interview and said, can you tell me more about what happened today? I want to be a safe place for you. Why don't we talk about this? She did not. She told Gabby that you can't be having these little arguments. It's, it's silly of you and it's ridiculous and basically blaming her. And, and you know, at that point, Gabby was probably just defeated and said, all right, it's my fault and I'm going to take the blame for it.

[Jennifer Fessler]

So Nicole, probably the. Yeah, hardest watching it. I don't know why, but when she said, I just, Can I just talk to my mom? Yeah, that must have been so Hard to watch.

[Nicole Schmidt]

That broke my heart.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Broke my heart. She did get to talk to her dad briefly during the call. I think he called right before she got to call me. They did give her her phone, and then I spoke to her after the call.

[Jennifer Fessler]

What did she say to you?

[Nicole Schmidt]

She. What most victims do. Now we know. She minimized everything. I was having a bad morning. It was all my fault. I'm so sorry I worried you. I shouldn't have sent you that picture. The picture where. The blood smear on her eye. She said I scratched Brian and he wiped the blood on me and that it was just. I'm so sorry. And, you know, just minimize the whole thing. And, of course, I didn't know that. What she looked like in that video, because I hadn't seen it, so I didn't know what was really going on. I only could believe what she told me.

[Jennifer Fessler]

You think she was minimizing it to herself? Was there any. Obviously she was scared. She was under the influence of this, you know, maniac who was playing these crazy mind games with her. I mean, I. I don't know. I just. I. I wonder if in the middle of her. Her fear and her terror and all of that, because they got. From what I remember, they. They didn't wait 24 hours to, you know, reconvene. Like, they got back together. Right. Got back at. That evening. They got back in the van and. And took off. Okay. So do you feel like. I think you're probably gonna say yes to this, but, like. The system just failed, Gabby.

[Nicole Schmidt]

The system failed, Gabby. And the system fails victims and survivors time and time again. And it's at a point now where something needs to change, because the numbers of women. And I will say it's mostly women, and there are men that are abused. Yes. But it's mostly women. And it's about six a day in our country, on average.

[Jennifer Fessler]

A day?

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yep.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Murdered six a day.

[Nicole Schmidt]

On average. Yeah. You might have a day where there's two, but you might have a day where there's eight. Eight. Right. So it's an average. And FBI put out a new report, chilling. It was one in four. Now it's one in three. And I don't like statistics because it's under reported, so a lot of people aren't even reporting what's going on. But as far as homicides go, women are being killed constantly, and we're not. We're not able to fix this right now with the way things are. We have to do something differently.

[Public Investing Ad Host]

Support for the show comes from Public the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, cryptos and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier Protein Shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting afterlife. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com hey

[Kal Penn]

everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo yo yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but, like, I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Meaningful Beauty.

[Cindy Crawford]

Beautiful skin at every age.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Learn more@meaningful beauty.com. So what changes are you working on in terms of like, getting the police to their protocols? And what specifically are you guys right now trying to institute? You know, when 911 calls happen or police are visiting a scene?

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah, it's a, it's a lot. It's a whole ecosystem. So it's. First of all, my husband started a program for first responders because he was a firefighter EMT for many years and we didn't have training. So he trains the people that would be on scene that maybe would be disclosed to. But because people don't want to really talk to cops, they're intimidated by them. They don't really talk to you in trauma informed way. Some do, some are trained well, most aren't. So we have, we start there. As far as laws go, we want the lethality assessment, which is a questionnaire that is asked on scene, but you have to be trained properly to do it.

[Jennifer Fessler]

What kind of questions?

[Nicole Schmidt]

So the questions would be something like, has he ever choked you before? We use the word choked because a lot of people don't use the word strangled. It's a very intimidated word. Has he been out of work for a certain amount of time? Do you have any children? Have they harmed animals before? You know, there's just, there's all kinds of questions. And once you answer yes to a certain amount or certain questions, it labels you as high risk. And that means we're going to connect you to a victim advocate immediately because you should not be with this person anymore. Like, we need to get you to an advocate. It's a hard system, but it's that at that level we can change things a little easier. It's then when you get to the courts, you have prosecutors who are trying, but the judges are knocking things down. They're knocking charges down, or the victim recants, and then they drop the whole case because the victim's too scared to testify. So we're trying to help change things where the victim doesn't have to testify in court, because how many homicide victims testify? They can't because they're not here. We use evidence. We use evidence to prosecute. So there's many different levels that need to be changed. But the biggest thing is everything needs to be across the board. The United States needs to follow protocol for domestic violence in the same way. Instead of county by county, state by state, we really are fighting to regulate the way this is dealt with, but also work in prevention, because the only way we're going to make those numbers go down is if we prevent it. We go to a lot of schools and we talk to the youth, and we want to educate parents and kids and just everybody needs to understand what's going on, how to prevent it, and how to prevent somebody from becoming an abuser or flag those kids that are on that path. We might be able to spot them sooner.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Have you gotten reports or people keyed you into things that, as a kid, maybe he was going through or that the kind of kid he was.

[Nicole Schmidt]

No, I. Honestly, I don't know either. I've heard that he was always quiet in school. He was referred to as the weird friend by his friend groups. They. They liked him, but, like, he was the weird friend. So I. I don't know what the childhood was like. I haven't. We had heard that the family came out publicly at. At some point because the media was trying to contact them, and they said, we don't talk to them. They're. They're black sheep. They don't. We haven't talked to them in years.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Wait, the family. So the extended family didn't talk to Brian's.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Love the laundry. Yeah. Yeah. So apparently they were kind of just secluded from the rest of the family. So nobody really had any information on that. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I have to say that Gabby's ex boyfriend, that was so, like, just. It was so touching, Jackson, to get to know him a little bit and the way that he obviously loved your daughter. And I wonder, you guys still in touch? He's. What a doll.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yes. He. He calls me mom. He says, hi, Mom. How are you? Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Are you serious?

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah. Every once in a while he sends me a text, and he's just. He's such a great person.

[Jennifer Fessler]

What. I mean. And obviously she knew that they had they're young, they broke up and all of that is always, you know, very dramatic when you're young. But that she knew that he would be there for her.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah, he was a good friend. Yeah.

[Public Investing Ad Host]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, complete, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Bowen Yang]

is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture ES with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can impossible. That's why Premier Protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. The 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense gym sessions. It's just for life. With the wide variety of flavors from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. There's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.

[Kal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay, the Audible and Iheart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast. I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project Hail Mary Massive Sci Fi Adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah dude, me too.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audio Book Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cindy Crawford]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skin care brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. Its melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningful beauty.com.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Tell me a little bit about what it was like in terms of when it was all going down and you were looking for Gabby and the whole world was watching. Did you feel supported or was it, did it make it even harder?

[Nicole Schmidt]

No. When your loved one, especially your child, is missing, you want that attention. You want the whole world looking for them. And that's exactly what we got. I don't know how we got that. I mean we did the hard Work. I mean, the first thing I did was blast Facebook. Every person I had as a contact, I blasted them out with, my daughter is missing. Please help. And it just spread like wildfire from there. Media caught onto it quickly. We couldn't believe how many people fell in love with Gabby and wanted to help find her. And, you know, even seeing the people at the laundry's house screaming like, where's Gabby? That was really emotional for us. I did. I didn't really support that. I thought it was a little bit. I was. It was unbelievable.

[Jennifer Fessler]

But why didn't you support it?

[Nicole Schmidt]

I don't know. I just thought that's not how we're gonna find her necessarily, is screaming at their house. They're not gonna. They're not gonna come talk to you. So that was kind of, you know, maybe doing something that is more meaningful, like continuing to share her flyer just at the time, you know. Cause we were looking for a missing person, so that seemed counterproductive.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Well, her face, even before the documentary, you did such a good job. Her face is burned on my memory.

[Nicole Schmidt]

I know. She was like, nobody's going to forget me. I'm going to be found and I'm going to change the world. That's what I feel like her spirit is doing. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

That is remarkable. I think that's remarkable. I can't imagine that you are the norm. I would think that women that have gone through what you've gone through, I don't know if that there may be this ones. Women that are so brave and. And I don't know that I could ever be like that. I don't. I can't imagine that you have so much strength that you're be. You're able to not only see things like that, but then use things to change the world. Use it to change the world, what you've been through, as opposed to. I guess I don't know what the alternatives are. You have other kids, you have a life, you have a loving husband. But must. I would think it'd be very hard not to curl up into a ball.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah. Sometimes I need to do that. I do take those moments when I need to take a break. I think that on a spiritual level, Gabby chose us for this. And there's a higher purpose to all of this. I have to believe that. And I think that you don't really know what you're going to do until something happens. I would have never thought that I could stand in front of a crowd of, you know, 3,000 people and talk about her story and domestic Violence and hopes to save others. I never thought I could do that. I never thought I could get in front of a camera and film a documentary. But I do it because we get the stories that say, because of Gabby, I'm alive today because of Gabby, my kids are still here. And because of Gabby, I became a social worker so I could help. Like, there's just so many positive outcomes that I have to believe that this is for the greater good. And that's why I'm going to keep going and doing what we're doing.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I absolutely love that picturing, like, I don't know why my pot just be a great title of a podcast or about. Because of Gabby. Yes. You know, and all of these, like, people who are. Who. Whose lives are being served by what she went through. I know that. Also, there was a lot about other bodies being found in the search for Gabby. Right. And a little bit how. Lots. Right. From what I. I believe there was

[Nicole Schmidt]

about seven from the initial search throughout that week. It was about eight days until we found her. Yeah, it was. It was unbelievable. I was happy that there was some resolution brought to families who were looking for their missing loved ones. So because of Gabby, like, thanks, Gab. You know, you help these families. I think 50 Cent put out a tweet. They're like, this. This little girl's finding all these missing persons. Like, what's going on? And. Yeah, it was just so weird. Such a weird time. It's very much a blur in our heads. Those eight days were traumatizing and shocking, and we didn't sleep, we didn't eat. It was. It was awful. I knew. I knew the call was coming. I knew Brian took her life as a mother. I knew because the second the detective told me he was home with the van, I knew. But we are so lucky that she was able to be found, because I can't imagine between Wyoming and Florida, he could have put her anywhere. He could have taken her anywhere, and we would have never found her. So I'm just. I'm grateful for the outcome that it's been. And I'm. I'm also perfectly fine with the fact that he's not here anymore.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Who cares? But I am, too.

[Nicole Schmidt]

I don't.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Who cares what I think? But I'm okay with the two questions that interviewers maybe don't ask you that you wish that they would or anything you wish that they would address.

[Nicole Schmidt]

No, I think it's really. It's very much all the same where we have to talk about, you know, domestic violence, how Much of an issue. An epidemic. That it is. And femicide and how many women are being killed.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Femicide is what? I don't. What is that?

[Nicole Schmidt]

So femicide is just that it's basically

[Jennifer Fessler]

women are targeted homicide. It's more you're saying.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah, it's just.

[Jennifer Fessler]

It's really kind.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Women focused. Right. Women are being killed. When you walk to your car at night versus when a man walks to his car at night, us as women, we're thinking, all right, I got to get my key out. I gotta, like, be aware of my surroundings. I'm worried, is somebody gonna attack me tonight when I'm walking out from the mall to my car? But a man's thinking about, oh, I gotta go home and catch the football game, you know, like, they're not worried. So men need to step up and do more to help protect women. And, you know, domestic violence isn't going to even come close to ending until men say it does, because they're the ones killing. So men have to call out other men. The good men have to take accountability and call out the ones that are doing it instead of just turning a blind eye and allowing the behaviors to happen and protect women.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah. I want to talk about the tour that you're going on where there are a lot of good men who are going on that tour with you. But I'm just going to quickly say, because you said it and then I agree, that you're glad that Brian is not in this world anymore. Is there any part of you that would. That feels like you would have liked to have seen him, you know, get the. Justice would have been served, or you could have asked questions at least. Is there. Do you have that still?

[Nicole Schmidt]

I had mixed emotions in the beginning where I was like, I wanted him to, you know, be punished for this. I wanted him to sit and rot in jail and think about what he did for the rest of his life. But then I thought, wow, imagine having to go through that trial, possibly seeing pictures, you know, of the crime scene and my daughter. And that would have been an awful experience. So I think it was just meant to be. And I'm. I'm really glad that we didn't have to go through all that. Glad he's not here anymore. I think that he's in a place where he'll never get anywhere near Gabby. She's in a higher realm. She's a beautiful light, and she's shining her light down all the time. People all over this world are touched by her and her story, and she's saving lives. And I'm just so proud of her.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Tell me about the tour, please, and tell me where our listeners can go to get tickets and just who's going to be with you? I know a little bit because I've actually interviewed, well, Denise Hutchins, who's the most incredible woman.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Denise and Aaron are amazing. I was with them yesterday, actually. This tour, we weren't sure about it. Right. We talked about doing this tour and sitting in front of an audience live with. With John Ramsey, JonBenet Ramsey's dad, and Denise Huskins and Aaron and just these people. And the dad, Sean from Unknown number, the father who was completely. I mean, I can't even believe that that happened to his daughter and that family. We are true crime stories to the rest of the world. We are, you know, a Netflix documentary or some. Somebody they seen on the news and we're tragedies. But to get in front of people that intimately in a smaller theater setting and talking to them so they could see that we're real people, we're real families. These can happen to anyone. These things are not things that just happen to us. They're going to happen to anyone. And we're just out there telling our stories to try and prevent that from happening. But we also want to connect with them on a level to show them that, you know, we're people. You know, John, John Ramsey gets so much hate. So much hate. And he is such a good man, and I just hate seeing that. So maybe connecting with us on that level will make us look a little different and people will see us in a different lens than just a Netflix documentary. As far as tickets go, I believe it's through the crime unfiltered website. They have social media pages and stuff. I know they're moving the first two dates to the fall because more people can come in the fall. But the second, the second dates are still available in June.

[Jennifer Fessler]

So interesting doing what I've been doing with these, speaking to the people like you who are so extraordinary. I mean, you are period. There's no like. So I just.

[Ray Porter]

You.

[Jennifer Fessler]

I cannot believe how you have channeled all of your grief. It is quite extraordinary and remarkable. But. And I think the tour is. I think it's incredible that you guys are going to all be together. And I mean, I imagine all of you just becoming so close. Right. Just through all of this.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Yeah, It's. There's a connection with people who understand.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Yeah.

[Nicole Schmidt]

And I just adore, adore Denise. She is such a beautiful soul and her message is so important and what happened to her and her husband, they did not deserve that, to say the least. I think it's great to tell our stories and seeing how it's taken differently in a more intimate setting where people are right there in front of us and able to talk to us and ask questions and meet us in person. I think it'll just be different. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jennifer Fessler]

Well, you are an inspiration, my friend, and I'm you. I keep saying it. I can't help it. I am so grateful that you even would join me and to talk about Gabby. And again, she's like that gorgeous face of hers is going to be burned. It's burned into my brain, hers and yours both. So I really just really thank you for spending this time with us and we are thinking of you and praying for you and always, always, always thinking of Gabby.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Thank you so much. Appreciate you.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness, it's for getting after life. 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense gym sessions, it's just for life. With the wide variety of flavors, from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. There's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein empowers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.

[Kal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Book Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sophia Donner]

This is Sophia Donner from OK Storytime this summer. Find your next obsession on Prime Video and listen. We're not saying you need another obsession, but there could be a lot worse ones. Steamy romance, addictive love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice, so why not watch them a third time off campus? Elle, the Love Hypothesis, and more. Slow Burn Second Chances Chemistry you can feel through the screen, and it makes you wish you were actually in that movie. We've got Binge worthy series can't miss movies perfect for when you're ignoring your own problems or procrastinating as one does. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.

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[Sophia Donner]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Nicole Schmidt]

Guaranteed Human.