Killer Thriller: What Makes An Ordinary Person Commit Murder?

Summary

---

Killer Thriller: What Makes An Ordinary Person Commit Murder?

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Episode: Killer Thriller: What Makes An Ordinary Person Commit Murder?
Date: July 26, 2026
Host: Danielle Fishel
Guest: David Lasher (Actor)

---

Episode Overview

The episode dives into the perplexing question: what drives an ordinary person to commit murder? Host Danielle Fishel continues her conversation with actor David Lasher, focusing on his role in the true crime film Twisted Desire, based on the shocking 1990 murders of James and Kathy Wiseman, orchestrated by their 14-year-old daughter and her boyfriend. The discussion explores the psychological makeup of teenage criminals, the blurred lines of responsibility in murder conspiracies, and how dramatizations wrestle with real-life pain and horror.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background on Twisted Desire and the True Story

• The film follows a teenage girl (loosely based on Jessica Wiseman) who convinces her older boyfriend to murder her parents, so they can be together.
• The real Jessica Wiseman was only 14, and her boyfriend Douglas Thomas was 17 at the time of the murders.
  • "I mean, did you have a hard time believing that the real people at the center of this story were 14 and 17?"
    (Danielle Fishel, 04:42)
  • "Oh my God. Yeah. I mean there's a 14 year old doesn't even know. They have no way to make. They have no idea what they're doing."
    (David Lasher, 05:25)

2. Portrayal Differences: Real Life vs. Film

• In Twisted Desire, the characters’ ages were raised to make the story more palatable and dramatic.
• Danielle expresses shock over the reality: "In reality they were 14 and 17... Scarlett is 14. I can't... what?"
  (Danielle Fishel, 05:18)
• Lasher reflects on the incomprehensibility: "A 14-year-old doesn't even know... there's no justification for what that kid did."
  (David Lasher, 05:25)

3. Teen Emotions, Manipulation, and the Consequences of Obsession

• The conversation pivots to how powerful and overwhelming teenage feelings can be—and how those can be manipulated.
• Danielle raises the issue of parental overprotection contributing to feelings of rebellion:
  • "Do you think that we underestimate how powerful teenagers' feelings can be and their relationships?... but going from that to actually this, I mean, it's kind of unimaginable."
    (Danielle Fishel, 05:40)
• Lasher cites the infamous Menendez brothers as another example of extreme family violence and questions the boundaries of self-defense and manipulation.
  (06:07)

4. Justice and Punishment: Who Is Most Responsible?

• The shocking legal outcomes: Jessica was released at 21 after serving 7 years (juvenile correction), while Douglas was executed.
  • "He was sentenced to death and eventually executed. I mean, does that surprise you?"
    (Danielle Fishel, 08:14)
  • "I mean, you don't hear about a lot of executions, especially of a 17 year old."
    (David Lasher, 08:41)
• Daniel and David debate the relative guilt of the mastermind vs. the one who pulls the trigger:
  • "Is the person who plans the murder just as responsible as the person who actually commits it?"
    (Danielle Fishel, 10:07)
  • "I think the person that pulls the trigger is the murderer. And that is a bigger crime than paying someone to do it."
    (David Lasher, 10:28)

5. The Teenage Brain, Consequences, and Parental Fears

• They discuss adolescent risk-taking, lack of impulse control, and parental boundaries:
  • "Teenagers are so, they're so sensitive, and they know exactly what your sore spots are and how to get to you."
    (David Lasher, 20:48)
  • "Their emotions are, you know, everything is so heavy... In five years you'll be in college, you're not even going to remember any of this."
    (Danielle Fishel, 21:23)
• Lasher shares being held at gunpoint by adolescents:
  • "I was held up one time at gunpoint in New York... all I kept thinking was, this is a child. He won't even know what he's doing."
    (David Lasher, 22:48)

6. Behind the Scenes: Making the Movie and Its Impact

• Melissa Joan Hart took the lead to break out of her child-star mold.
  • "She wanted to not be that little Nickelodeon tween... let me be a sick, you know, twisted kill, you know, murdering mastermind."
    (David Lasher, 16:45)
• Lasher recalls working with Jeremy Jordan, describing him as uniquely talented and eccentric:
  • "His choices... were so like, not what you'd expect. Yes, it was very thoughtful, but he was a unique dude."
    (David Lasher, 17:57 & 18:16)
• Filming heavy real-life crime stories was less about the subject for Lasher and more about the performance, but some roles (like in Cries Unheard) weighed more emotionally.

7. Society, Psychiatry, and What These Stories Tell Us

• The hosts reflect on the theme that 'sick' or unstable teenagers can be highly dangerous if untreated.
  • "The scariest people in the world are like mentally unstable adolescents."
    (David Lasher, 22:36)
  • "Melissa's character, you know, could have used a good therapist and maybe a psychiatrist."
    (David Lasher, 24:02)
• On the core of Twisted Desire:
  • "If it's about anything, it's about adolescent mental health... she was a sick kid."
    (David Lasher, 32:39)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• David Lasher on Teen Criminals:

  "A 14-year-old doesn't even know... there's no justification for what that kid did." (05:25)

• On Sentencing:

  "She served seven. And she is like the mastermind of the whole. I don't, I don't understand that as justice." (Danielle Fishel, 09:39)

• On Pulling the Trigger vs. Planning:

  "I think the person that pulls the trigger is the murderer. And that is a bigger crime than, than paying someone to do it." (David Lasher, 10:28)

• Parental Reflections:

  "You have to not really care if they like you or they're offended by your choices. For them, you're their parent, not their friend." (David Lasher, 19:26)

• On Teen Angst and Risk:

  "The scariest people in the world are like mentally unstable adolescents... a 16 year old kid has no freaking clue what they're doing." (David Lasher, 22:36 & 23:05)

• On Society’s Role:

  "Melissa's character... could have used a good therapist and maybe a psychiatrist. And some impulse control medication." (David Lasher, 24:02)

---

Important Timestamps

• 02:20 – Introduction to Twisted Desire and the real-life case
• 05:13-06:07 – Shock over the real ages of the murderers and the psychology of teen relationships
• 08:14-09:39 – The justice system's treatment of the two teen perpetrators
• 10:07-12:21 – Ethical debate: Is planning murder as bad as committing it?
• 16:18-18:39 – Behind the scenes: Melissa Joan Hart’s casting and the filmmaking experience
• 19:13-22:26 – Parental boundaries, real-life fears, and adolescence challenges
• 22:36-24:14 – Dangers of unstable teens, real-life anecdote (Lasher's gunpoint story)
• 27:24-29:48 – Impact of acting in true crime adaptations, emotional responses to different roles
• 32:17-33:42 – Final thoughts: responsibility, mental health, and societal implications

---

Takeaways

• The line between 'ordinary' and 'killer' can be unexpectedly thin, especially for emotionally unstable or manipulated adolescents.
• Psychological factors and untreated mental illness in teens can have devastating consequences.
• The justice system’s handling of teenage perpetrators remains controversial, with questions about fairness, rehabilitation, and public safety.
• Parental awareness, boundaries, and communication are crucial, but even protective parenting cannot always prevent tragedy or rebellion.
• Media representations and true crime films serve to reflect and amplify these social concerns, raising important debates about responsibility, justice, and prevention.

---

This episode offers a compassionate, unvarnished look at the roots of teenage violence, the complexities of culpability, and the real-life consequences—both legal and emotional—for those involved.

Transcript

[Danielle Fishel]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Guaranteed Human Host]

Guaranteed Human.

[Danielle Fishel]

This is Danielle Fishel Ryder Strong and

[Will Friedle]

Will Friedle from Pod Meets World.

[Danielle Fishel]

Your home tells a story and scent is part of it.

[Will Friedle]

With Pura's Smart Diffusers, every room can have its own fragrance, its own feeling, bright and energizing in the kitchen, calm and grounding in the bedroom.

[Danielle Fishel]

Set schedules, adjust intensity and control every diffuser right from the Pyra app.

[Will Friedle]

Your whole home scented exactly the way you want it. Visit pura.com wholehome to start building yours.

[Kel Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Irsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ice Cube Big Three Announcer]

Ice Cube's Big Three season is heating up. The most competitive basketball league on earth is on CBS this Sunday. Coach Stephen Jackson and the DMV trilogy face off against two time MVP Michael Beasley and the defending champion Miami 305 in a must win game for both teams. Then the battle for Texas as Greg Monroe, coach Nancy Lieberman and the Dallas Power take on Jonathan Simmons and the Houston ring hands the game played the way you love. Watch live Sunday on CBS at 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET. Presented by iHeart.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

The Breakup no one saw coming has hit the freezer aisle. Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pops are going solo. Now. Fans must pick a side and help crown the flavorfew champion with a chance to earn a long term solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick up the Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors and decide where your loyalty lies. And then vote by shouting out your favorite on Social. And don't forget to follow the Flavor Feud drama all summer long on Instagram. Opsicle.

[Ice Cube Big Three Announcer]

Amy Robach and T.J. holmes present killer

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hey everyone, Elisa Donovan here and welcome back to Killer Thriller. In the second part of my conversation with actor David Lasher, we are turning to another true crime film from his career and this case is even more unsettling. Twisted Desire is based on the shocking 1990 murders of James and Kathy Wiseman in rural Virginia. Prosecutors said 14 year old Jessica Wiseman and her 17 year old boyfriend Douglas Thomas carefully planned the Murders because Jessica's parents stood in the way of their relationship. So what drew you to this role or how did it come to you?

[David Lasher]

I might have been on hiatus from some show I was doing, so I had that window where you could go off and, and do a movie. And I. Yeah, it wasn't a huge role like, but I think it was integral to the story because this girl wants a relationship with me, with my character so badly and is so devastated that her father has ruined it that it sets in motion what she ends up doing. And again, she finds some patsy of a guy to murder her father. And also another similarity is Daniel Baldwin is a scary dude.

[Ice Cube Big Three Announcer]

Whoa.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

He.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, right.

[David Lasher]

Like I remember being there being like this guy is big and thick and his voice and he's just a scary guy.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes. His whole demeanor is very intimidating, for sure. I mean, I think that was probably intentional. Yeah. But it's so to give the plot really quickly. Teenage girl convinces an ex con who's in love with her to kill her parents. They can be together, but the real thing is she wants to be with your character. So it's really about manipulation and it's twisted and it's based on this real life 1990 double murder of James Baxter and Cathy Wiseman committed by their 14 year old daughter and his 17 year old, her 17 year old boyfriend. But in the movie version of the crime, the girl who plots her parents murders is almost 18, who is Melissa's character. And the shooter was a few years older than that.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

So.

[Danielle Fishel]

But in reality they were 14 and 17. I mean, did you have a hard time believing that the real people at the center of this story were 14 and 17?

[David Lasher]

Oh my gosh. I don't remember. I don't remember knowing that.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh my gosh.

[David Lasher]

Off the ages.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah. So they made Melissa 18 or almost 18. And then the ex con boyfriend, love interest was probably like 20. He was out of high school in the movie, right?

[David Lasher]

Yeah, that was clear. He was working at a gas station, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean 14 to 17. I mean, Scarlett is 14. I can't wait. When I think about this, I'm like, what?

[David Lasher]

Oh my God. Yeah. I mean there's a 14 year old doesn't even know. They have no way to make. They have no idea what they're doing. Like there's no justification for what that kid did.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, no. I mean, I think that. Or do you think that we underestimate how powerful teenagers feelings can be and their relationships? You know, there's so much drama. I know that as I said, My daughter's 14. So there's a lot of drama in our house right now, but going from that to actually this, I mean, it's kind of unimaginable.

[David Lasher]

I mean, the, the, the other famous story that I think of is the Menendez brothers who were, you know, even recently claiming that they were physically abused and, and in danger of their parents and claiming it was self defense. But I don't know what, what, what do you think in it?

[Danielle Fishel]

Because in this case, I didn't, I, from everything that I've read, it isn't. You know, she wasn't even claiming that her, her parents were abusive. It was just simply, I want to be with this person and they don't like him, like, or they don't approve of him, so. Because at first it seems like, you know, it's, it's, it's about one thing, but really it's that this girl is manipulative because they were just overprotective.

[David Lasher]

Right. Well, the way I think they set it up is that the father is very overprotective. Like, change your clothes. She asked her, can I go study where, you know, what are you studying for? What test, what class, what period are you studying? You know, and then, yeah, you know, the mother is just like, don't talk to your father that way. The mother is just like, you know, let the dad do whatever he wants. Don't protect the daughter at all. There's no excuse for what she did, obviously, but it was definitely a very overbearing, you know, dad.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. In the. So unlike in the, in the film where both of the parents are shot in their bed, in real life, Jessica's mother survived the first gunshot long enough to try to reach her daughter's bedroom, and then she was shot again. And just reading details like that is just, it's heartbreaking. It's an egregious, I mean, that's without a doubt first degree murder.

[David Lasher]

Did the girl tell him to kill my mom too?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, yeah, she said both of them. Both of them.

[David Lasher]

I mean, I hope she, I hope she's still in jail.

[Danielle Fishel]

So she was. Jessica, this is one of the most astonishing parts of, of this whole case is what happened afterwards. So Jessica was 14 and she remained in the juvenile system. Douglas, the boyfriend, was 17 and tried as an adult. He was sentenced to death and eventually executed. I mean, does that surprise you? I can tell by the expression on your face that it does.

[David Lasher]

I mean, you don't hear about a lot of executions, especially of a 17 year old.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh my God, I was pretty struck by that too.

[David Lasher]

What was her sentence?

[Danielle Fishel]

She was released. Let's see. So at the time, Virginia law did not permit her to be tried as an adult at 14. So she was educated delinquent in juvenile court and was committed to a juvenile correctional facility until her 21st birthday in 97. And she was released when she turned 21.

[David Lasher]

Wow, 21. She was released. So didn't she do what she did, what Donna did, Conspired to murder her dad instead of her husband. Donna got 40 years and she. Whatever. She got 27. Yeah. And this girl got out at 21.

[Danielle Fishel]

She served seven. And she is like the mastermind of the whole. I don't, I don't understand that as justice.

[David Lasher]

And Donna's life was, was legitimately in danger. This girl just couldn't, couldn't have the boyfriend she wanted. Her dad was annoying just.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. Exactly. I want this boyfriend and my dad's annoying. I, I don't, I don't understand that at all.

[Kel Penn]

Oh.

[Danielle Fishel]

So, I mean, this is one of the questions, right, of this difficult question of is the person who plans the murder just as responsible as the person who actually commits it? And these, both these cases and movies sort of take the opposite end of that. Confusing.

[David Lasher]

Yeah, I disagree with that. I think the person that pulls the trigger is the murderer. And that is a bigger crime than, than paying someone to do it. I mean, right. Conspiracy to commit murder is, you know, a serious thing, but it means that person didn't have. That person is not a killer. Not a cold blooded killer. Like Donna said, I could never have pulled that trigger.

[Danielle Fishel]

And I appreciated in this movie how they show his character. He says, I don't know if I can do this. You know, he does have those doubts. And then she says, well, you have to so we can be together. So they really also don't shy away from the twisted, diabolical nature of this girl. That even when you know the shooter is having second thoughts, like, maybe this isn't the greatest idea, and she's like, no, you, you have to do it.

[David Lasher]

Yeah, she. Well, then, I don't know. What do you think the person that conspires it and puts it together just as bad.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, I think I agree with you. I think when push. Push comes to shove in the moment, you have an a choice to do it or not. And particularly in this kind of a situation where there's no immediate threat. Right. It's not like somebody is immediately going to hurt you, I and I. But I think it is a particular sort of twisted manipulation and manipulative personality that could do this to another person. So I don't know, maybe I'm contradicting myself now because I'm thinking it's still, it's still pretty bad what she did. But I, but I agree with you actually committing the murder, that's, that's worse. It's worse.

[David Lasher]

Right? And when you're thinking of the punishment, isn't it about like how long does society think it will take for this person to rehabilitate and not act like this again?

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right, right. That's supposed to be what the, the serving of the time is, right?

[David Lasher]

I don't know. I think they're both like this young girl when they let her out of prison. I mean, obviously she didn't do this again. But you think like, what if someone else gets in her way? What if someone else pisses her off?

[Danielle Fishel]

Right? Is this going to be her problem solving tactic for everything?

[David Lasher]

You know, I'll just flirt with some idiot and have him kill it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

This is Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong and

[Will Friedle]

Will Friedle from Pod meets World.

[Danielle Fishel]

Your home deserves more than a good smelling room. It deserves a great smelling home.

[Will Friedle]

Pura home, our 5th generation smart diffuser brings thoughtful upgrades to every detail. A new fragrance tray for easier swaps,

[Danielle Fishel]

dual band wi fi for a more reliable connection and intuitive app control to

[Will Friedle]

set schedules and dial in intensity from anywhere. Redefine design, improved performance.

[Danielle Fishel]

This is whole home scenting elevated.

[Will Friedle]

Visit pura.com home to upgrade your space.

[Ice Cube Big Three Announcer]

Ice Cube's big three season is heating up. The most competitive basketball league on earth is on CBS this Sunday. Coach Stephen Jackson and the DMV trilogy face off against two time MVP Michael Beasley and the defending champion Miami 305 in a must win game for both teams. Then the battle for Texas as Greg Monroe, coach Nancy Lieberman and the Dallas power take on Jonathan Simmons and the Houston Rig hands the game played the way you love. Watch live Sunday on CBS at 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET. Presented by iHeart.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

The public breakup no one saw coming has hit the freezer aisle. After decades together, Cherry, orange and grape Popsicle ice pops are going their separate ways. And the drama is heating up. It's started with Cherry Popsicle's shocking decision to strike out on her own. But after years of sharing freezer space, Orange and Gray Popsicle weren't about to let Cherry Popsicle steal the spotlight. Now the flavor feud is officially on. Cherry Popsicle wants the spotlight all to herself. But Orange and gray Popsicle aren't giving it up without a fight. All summer long, fans will decide which flavor deserves the crown and the chance to earn a long term success solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick a side. Make your voice heard and let the feud begin. Pick up the Cherry, orange and grape Popsicle Ice Pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors and decide where your loyalty lies. And then shout out your favorite on Social. And don't forget to follow the flavor feud drama all summer long on Instagram Opsicle.

[Guaranteed Human Host]

I thought I looked so cute. I pieced together a cute outfit and this girl comes up to me, just sits next to me telling me, oh, hey girl, I see your skin. I know what you're suffering with. I just remember feeling so, just like distraught and like robbed of my time. When I finally freed myself of that conversation, the lights were coming on and the party was over. It felt like I had a sticker on my forehead that said she has eczema.

[Skin Queries Narrator]

We've all been there wanting to go out feeling cute, forgetting about all your problems and just existing in the present with joy. But when you live with a visible skin condition, that can be a lot harder than it needs to be. This is skin queries. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the stories that make you feel understood.

[Danielle Fishel]

So Melissa, she was, she was like America's sweetheart at the time of this movie. I mean, were you surprised that she took such a dark role?

[David Lasher]

I think I, I understand why. Right. She was coming off of. Oh, she was Clarissa. Clarissa. She hit that. Clarissa explains it all. And I think she wanted to not be that little Nickelodeon tween kind of.

[Ice Cube Big Three Announcer]

Right.

[David Lasher]

Actress. She wanted to be, do something dramatic. So she's like, let me be a sick, you know, twisted kill, you know, murdering mastermind.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, right.

[David Lasher]

It made sense. I think it was a good choice for her. I think Paula produced it, probably helped choose the movie and they did a good job with it.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I mean, I think. And then I feel like Sabrina started probably right after that.

[David Lasher]

Yeah, you're right.

[Danielle Fishel]

So I know it was over 30 years ago, but what do you remember the most about making the film?

[David Lasher]

I remember just having a really good time. Melissa and I got along so well. She was awesome. Charleston was so much fun. I don't. Have you ever filmed there?

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I haven't filmed there, but I've been to a wedding there which was pretty fun.

[David Lasher]

Great city. And I mean, I, I remember the Jeremy Jordan that, that actor was very eccentric.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

Oh, really?

[Danielle Fishel]

No, But I thought he was quite good. And then I didn't even realize that he was like a pop star or something. Yes. A singer.

[David Lasher]

Yeah, he was a pop star before this movie and I thought he did a great job.

[Danielle Fishel]

I did too.

[David Lasher]

So, like, his choices, I remember were so like, not what you'd expect. Yes, it was very thoughtful, but he was this, he was a unique dude, really. And I think Melissa just couldn't figure him out.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. She was like, where's David?

[David Lasher]

Yeah. I remember her coming to me being like, what's with this guy?

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh my God. Maybe he was method, you know, maybe he was like getting deeply into his character. I was very impressed with his work too.

[David Lasher]

Yeah, he ended up doing a great job.

[Kel Penn]

Right.

[David Lasher]

I remember seeing the movie being like, no way.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, like surprised.

[David Lasher]

Yeah, I was surprised.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, man. So getting back to this idea of do we underestimate how powerful teenage relationships can become when the brain isn't fully formed yet and the emotions are big and all of that stuff. So I mean, do, did it, did it ever cross your mind like that could this happen in my family? Like now as an adult, do you think about that?

[David Lasher]

Is that, oh my God. Well, I do have a 16 year old daughter that's pretty strong willed and defiant.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. I mean, so was I.

[David Lasher]

But no, I never think of that, obviously. But I do think of like that line as a parent where you have to not really care if they like you or they're offended by your choices. For them, you're their parent, not their friend. And I, you know, I, I fall. My default is like, don't upset anybody. You know, she wants to go to this party where there's no adults. Why are we going to stop her? She. All her friends are going and Jill's like, be her father. Like, oh my gosh, there's boys there.

[Danielle Fishel]

We just, we are in the midst. I mean, Scarlett is home today. She's supposed to be at surf camp, but she wasn't feeling well, so she's home. I have to, I'm gonna have to whisper now, but we were literally just having this conversation over the weekend, Charlie and I, of like, okay, so we were. She's telling me, you know, none of my friends like you, they think you're mean. And I have to swallow my feeling of like, I want everybody to like me. Aren't I cool? You know, to like, I don't care if they like me. I don't care if they like me. And also don't speak to me that way. That's very disrespectful you know, but it's like, it's hard, it's. But I agree with you. You can't be, you're not their friend.

[David Lasher]

And teenagers are so, they're so sensitive and they know exactly what your sore spots are and how to get to you. She knows that you want to be liked and, and their, and their emotions are, you know, everything is so heavy. Like every, like I, I say to Chelsea all the time, in five years you'll be in college. You're not even going to remember any of this, right? These things that you think are the end of the world the most, right? I'm like, none of this is going to matter, right?

[Danielle Fishel]

The hormones, the hormones, they can't see it. And then how about when the dad, he is, as we said, a very intimidating presence. He goes to the party to pick her up. I remember my mom going into a nightclub when I was 17 and taking me out. And I, now if it was my dad, I would have had a different reaction. But my mom, I was like, what are you doing here? How dare you come in here after me? You know, Meanwhile, she's like, you said that I did. And I stormed out in front of her and went to my car. And then she says, now, oh, I was so afraid you weren't going to drive home, that you were just going to like drive away and never come back. Meanwhile, I was sweating it, like, I am in so much trouble. Good.

[David Lasher]

There needs to be still that level of like, respect. This is my family. These are the only people that love me, like, and care about me.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. That was not the response of Melissa's character in this movie. She was like, okay, I guess I have to kill dad if he, since he's come into this.

[David Lasher]

Oh, I'll tell you, like this, the scarecrow. Scariest people in the world are like mentally unstable adolescents.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yes, right. Like, yes.

[David Lasher]

I, I was held up one time at gunpoint in New York on 6th Avenue. I was really with my buddy Doug. Ellen. Yeah, we, we were walking back to his parents apartment, 6th and what? 57th outside Wolf's Deli.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

Right.

[David Lasher]

And it was, must have been one in the morning. We were coming home at the end of the night and these three kids came up to us, held a gun. One of them held a gun right in my stomach. And I, all I kept thinking was, this is a child. He won't even know what he's doing. Right, right. Like if you're held up by a 30 year old, this guy knows he's the consequences and but like a 16 year old kid has no freaking clue what they're doing. They'll, they'll regret it when they're 30. But meanwhile you're dead.

[Ice Cube Big Three Announcer]

Yes.

[David Lasher]

So I find like, yeah. Mentally unstable young. You know, adolescents are really scary and dangerous.

[Danielle Fishel]

I think you are exactly right. It is that the literally their brains are not fully formed so they can't fully understand consequences and you know, and that desire to have what you want when you want it.

[David Lasher]

Yeah. I mean look, Melissa's character, you know, could have used a good therapist and maybe a psychiatrist.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[David Lasher]

And some impulse control medication.

[Danielle Fishel]

Correct.

This is Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong and

[Will Friedle]

Will Friedel from POD meets world.

[Danielle Fishel]

Your home tells a story and scent is part of it.

[Will Friedle]

With Pura's smart diffusers, every room can have its own fragrance, its own feeling. Bright and energizing in the kitchen, calm and grounding in the bedroom.

[Danielle Fishel]

Set schedules, adjust intensity and control every diffuser right from the Pura app.

[Will Friedle]

Your whole home scented exactly the way you want it. Visit pura.com wholehome to start building yours.

[Ice Cube Big Three Announcer]

Ice Cube's big three season is heating up. The most competitive basketball league on earth is on CBS this Sunday. Coach Stevie Jackson and the DMV trilogy face off against two time MVP Michael Beasley and the defending champion Miami 305 in a must win game for both teams. Then the battle for Texas as Greg Monroe, coach Nancy Lieberman and the Dallas power take on Jonathan Simmons and the Houston ring hands the game played the way you love. Watch Live Sunday on CBS at 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET. Presented by iHeart.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

The public breakup no one saw coming has hit hit the freezer aisle. After decades together, Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice pops are going their separate ways and the drama is heating up. It started with Cherry Popsicle's shocking decision to strike out on her own. But after years of sharing freezer space, Orange and Grape Popsicle weren't about to let Cherry Popsicle steal the spotlight. Now the flavor feud is officially on. Cherry Popsicle wants the spotlight all to herself. But Orange and Grape Popsicle aren't giving it up without a fight. All summer long, fans will decide which flavor deserves the crown and the chance to earn a long term solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick a side. Make your voice heard and let the feud begin. Pick up the Cherry, Orange and Grape Popsicle Ice Pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors and decide where your loyalty lies. And then shout out your favorite on social media and don't forget to follow the Flavorfew drama all summer long on Instagram. Opsicle.

[Guaranteed Human Host]

I thought I looked so cute. I pieced together a cute outfit and this girl comes up to me, just sits next to me, telling me, oh, hey, girl, I see your skin. I know what you're suffering with. I just remember feeling so. Just, like, distraught and, like, robbed of my time. When I finally freed you myself of that conversation, the lights were coming on and the party was over. It felt like I had a sticker on my forehead that said, she has eczema.

[Skin Queries Narrator]

We've all been there. Wanting to go out feeling cute, forgetting about all your problems, and just existing in the present with joy. But when you live with a visible skin condition, that can be a lot harder than it needs to be. This is skin Queries. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the stories that make feel understood.

[Danielle Fishel]

Did working on two movies like this that, you know, based on real murder cases so early in your career have any kind of particular impact on you?

[David Lasher]

No, for me, it was kind of about the work and, you know, just getting to act in front of the camera and connecting with the different cast members, pleasing the director. I wasn't. I didn't really. But you know what? I did a lot of these. When after the Donna Yaklich movie ended, Prime Video automatically pulls up Violation of Trust, starring me and Katey Seagal and Charlotte Ross about another freaking true crime crazy story.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, well, guess what? You're coming back, David. And we're going to talk about that, too.

[David Lasher]

Jill's like, why is Prime Video bringing this up as your next thing to watch? Is it like Finding the Algorithm? David Lasher and Real Life Murders?

[Danielle Fishel]

Listen, just ask Charlie what our algorithm is now. Everything. Our Netflix account is under his name, and everything that comes up is murder related. And Charlie, he's like, oh, my God, I can't.

[David Lasher]

Oh, God, you must see the craziest stories.

[Danielle Fishel]

Oh, boy, oh, boy, I sure do. Was making either of these films Cries Unheard or Twisted Desire emotionally heavier than the other? Was one more difficult?

[David Lasher]

Yeah, the Donna Yaklich one. I just. I remember, even though it was so long ago, I do remember walking alone around this prison with my headphones on, listening to sad music, thinking about. I even remember the moments in my life I was thinking about to try and go back in there and have that last scene with her where. Where I have to cry. I mean, legitimately, he should be crying. I mean, he's telling his mom, like, it's okay. You left me with no one. And I understand. But I still love you. And I remember it being very heavy and sad.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, I can believe that.

[David Lasher]

It's a much sadder story. I mean, the cries unheard is kind of sensationalist, like just a crazy teenager, really. Nothing more than that. Like tragedy.

[Danielle Fishel]

The twisted desire.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah.

[David Lasher]

I'm sorry. Twisted. Twisted desire was just more like, you know, seemed like an entertaining story where I didn't feel so sad for the character I was working with. Yeah. Like Jacqueline Smith. And that character and what she did to her husband and to her son was so sad.

[Skin Queries Narrator]

Right.

[Danielle Fishel]

Like, you don't feel any. There's no kind of redemption or sense of justice in the end because you kind of. You don't want her husband to be alive. I mean, this is a horrible man. But then you also don't want her to.

[David Lasher]

When they killed him, I was like, go check. Make sure he's dead. I was sure he was gonna get up and be like you.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right, Right. But so she says that in the. Things in the. The. Some of the video that I watched of her of the real Donna speaking later and the transcripts that I've read where she says, I was, you know, I was waiting for him to get up when he was in the driveway. I just kept thinking, he's gonna get up and he's gonna come after me.

[David Lasher]

That's what Jill and I thought, watching it, like, is he dead? Like, make sure he's dead. It was that scary. I mean. Yeah. I mean, that guy deserved to die because he was gonna kill her.

[Danielle Fishel]

Right. But it's interesting. The son Denny, who you play, he. He did in real life support his mom, much like it's reflected in the movie. But then there's another. Apparently there's another daughter, not the Hillary Swank character, another daughter who has a whole different story and is like, the mom made it up, and my dad was a perfect man, and. But, you know, these are always. Yes. And I just don't personally think it is feasible nor possible for a woman to make up all of this abuse to such a degree. Like, it's just. It's crazy. This is like a kid who just didn't see it or doesn't want to believe that her father could be a bad man.

[David Lasher]

Well, Hilary Swank's character lived in the house with them and testified for Donna that this was true. And Donna's sister also was aware. Saw the whole thing. I mean, I don't think it's possible that she made all this up.

[Danielle Fishel]

No, no. Neither do I. Okay, let's go for one second, go back to the Twisted Desire, that Melissa Joan Hart movie, then that case. Do you think that it is ultimately about love, obsession, manipulation or something else entirely? What do you think that's about?

[David Lasher]

I think Twisted Desire, if it's about anything, it's about adolescent mental health. I mean, this girl, for her to be able to do this with no conscience. I'm not, you know, I'm not a psychiatrist and you can use the word sociopath or some sort of diagnosis, but you know, she was a sick kid.

[Danielle Fishel]

This is a great answer.

[David Lasher]

And triggered by a father that, you know, pushed her too far, but, you know, to kill both her parents or have them both killed and manipulate this guy into doing it with no conscience, that to me that's what the movie is about, is a really crazy sick teenager.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yeah, that is an excellent answer.

[David Lasher]

Yeah. I mean, there look, we see, we see sick teenagers do crazy tragic stuff way too often. I mean, it's still, you know, it still happens.

[Danielle Fishel]

Yep. Well, David, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. I love getting to see your face, even if, if it's not quite in person. And this is so great. We've never, you know, I've never seen, I had never seen these movies before and you know, it's not a surprise what your work is so great in it and it's just nice to now kind of have that backdrop for you. Now I feel like I know you even better.

[David Lasher]

All right, thank you so much everybody.

[Ice Cube Big Three Announcer]

Ice Cube's Big three season is heating up. The most competitive basketball league on earth is on CBS this Sunday. Coach Stephen Jackson and the DMV trilogy face off against team two time MVP Michael Beasley and the defending champion Miami 305 in a must win game for both teams. Then the battle for Texas as Greg Monroe, coach Nancy Lieberman and the Dallas power take on Jonathan Simmons and the Houston ring hands the game played the way you love. Watch live Sunday on CBS at 1pm Eastern, 10am Pacific and catch replays Monday on BET. Presented by iHeart.

[Popsicle Flavor Feud Announcer]

The Breakup no one saw coming has hit the freezer aisle. Cherry, orange and grape popsicle ice pops are going sweet solo now fans must pick a side and help crown the flavorfood champion with a chance to earn a long term solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick up the cherry, orange and grape popsicle ice pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors and decide where your loyalty lies. And then vote by shouting out your favorite on social. And don't forget to follow the Flavor Feud drama all summer long on Instagram. Opsicle

[Kel Penn]

hey everyone, it's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[HomeServe Advertiser]

A burst pipe? A dead water heater? The AC calling it quits? Who do you call? HomeServe is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs with plans covering stuff basic homeowners insurance usually won't Instead of scrambling for a contractor, you make one call to get the repair process started. Join the millions of customers who trust HomeServe right now. Go to HomeServe.com podcast for 50% less your first year. That's HomeServe.com podcast savings compared to renewal Price void in Florida this is an iHeart podcast.

[Guaranteed Human Host]

Guaranteed Human.