Legally Brunette: Mackenzie Shirilla

Summary

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Legally Brunette: Mackenzie Shirilla

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode: Legally Brunette: Mackenzie Shirilla
Release Date: May 20, 2026
Hosts: Emily Simpson & Shane

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the shocking true crime case of Mackenzie Shirilla, recently thrust back into the national spotlight by Netflix’s documentary “The Crash.” Hosts Emily Simpson and Shane analyze the details of the case, discuss the Netflix special’s differences from earlier documentaries, dissect the trial and sentencing, and offer strong opinions on the roles played by Shirilla’s parents and the wider media response.

The discussion moves through the events of the crash, coverage in the documentary, and the courtroom drama, while exploring broader issues like family accountability and the intersection of social media and crime.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Background and Introduction

• Emily’s Initial Reactions (02:02–03:15):
  • Emily watched “The Crash” when it dropped on Netflix, realizing she’d seen the case before via the “Dr. Insanity” YouTube channel.
  • Shane confirms that earlier coverage was based solely on police body cam and did not include Mackenzie’s own interview.
  • Emily: “Sometimes there are things that come out in the news that everybody is talking about and this is definitely one of the things…”

The Incident: Facts and Timeline

• Case Summary (03:15–04:33):

  • July 2022, Strongsville, Ohio: 17-year-old Mackenzie Shirilla deliberately crashes her car at nearly 100 mph into a building, killing her boyfriend, Dominic Russo (20) and their friend, Davion Flanagan (19).
  • Prosecution argues intent; defense claims Mackenzie’s POTS (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome) caused the crash.
  • The Netflix documentary provides the first prison interview with Mackenzie.

• Family Fallout (05:41–06:46):

  • Mackenzie’s father put on leave from his teaching job after the documentary's release, reflecting public backlash.

Family Dynamics and Parenting (06:46–11:11)

• Parent Behavior & Accountability:

  • Shane: “[Her parents] were very heavily protective of her.” (07:38)
  • Emily criticizes the parents’ lack of accountability: “The problem is…the lack of accountability is what is so glaring.”
  • The hosts point out the parents’ involvement in the documentary may have backfired.

• Life Before the Crash:

  • Mackenzie, 17, had graduated high school and was living with Dominic, 20, with hints of the relationship being tumultuous and possibly supported by drug money and gifting (09:21–10:33).

Crash Night Breakdown (16:12–18:12)

• Crash Details:

  • After a graduation party that began the night before, Mackenzie drives Dominic and Davion at high speed (reaching 100 mph) before intentionally veering into a building.

  • Shane: “She signaled, she was slow like normal, and then bam.” (17:00)

  • Only Mackenzie wore a seatbelt, which the hosts speculate might indicate intent to survive while her passengers did not.

Forensics & Investigation (18:12–25:50)

• Initial Police Response:

  • Emily highlights the visceral reactions heard on first-responder bodycam, and the extraordinary impact force.
  • It took nearly an hour post-crash for the wreckage to be discovered by a passing motorcyclist (21:02).

• Evidence of Intent:

  • Investigators rule out mechanical failure, drug impairment (though drugs were found), and establish the crash was controlled—full throttle, no breaking.

  • Crucial evidence: Data from the car’s Event Data Recorder (EDR, or “black box”) and Life360 tracking show deliberate acceleration and possible prior “scoping out” of the crash site (24:54).

  • Shane: “That piece of evidence was the most damning…any lay person watching that footage alone would conclude you purposely tried to hit the wall.” (17:48)

Documentary Differences and Media

• Missing Evidence in Netflix Special:
  • Hosts note the Netflix documentary downplayed or omitted important premeditation evidence, such as Mackenzie revisiting the crash site days before (25:50–26:45).

Trial, Defense, and Social Media Response

• Defense Arguments:

  • Centered on Mackenzie’s alleged POTS condition—that a medical episode caused the crash (42:18–42:54).

• Social Media Behavior:

  • Emily and Shane describe Mackenzie’s post-crash social media usage (including insensitive “corpse”-themed posts and influencer outreach) as “tone deaf” and “insanity” (34:33–35:46).
    • Shane: “She killed him.” Emily: “I know, it’s beyond tone deaf. I don’t know what you call it. Insanity.” (35:42)

• Parental Support:

  • Intense focus on Mackenzie’s parents’ lack of remorse and public failure to acknowledge the victims (36:00–37:16).

Evidence of History and Motive

• Volatile Relationship:

  • Past threats from Mackenzie to Dominic, including threats to crash the car, were entered in evidence.
  • Audio and texts recovered show Mackenzie making ominous statements like “I’m gonna kill you…If you break up with me, I can’t live…” (38:44–39:08).

• Opinions on Motive:

  • The hosts speculate Mackenzie was obsessed, acted out of fear of Dominic breaking up with her, and that Davion Flanagan was likely collateral damage (50:22).

The Trial and Sentencing

• Bench Trial vs. Jury:

  • The defense opted for a bench trial, possibly betting on a judge handling technical evidence and not being swayed by emotion (43:54–44:33).

• Sentencing and Statements:

  • Emily is harshly critical of Mackenzie’s mother’s statement at sentencing, describing it as “secondhand embarrassment” and “cringy” due to its lack of mention of the victims (52:39–54:07).
  • The judge sentences Mackenzie to 15 years to life (concurrent sentences), parole eligible in 2037.
  • Shane: “[The judge] said: you’ll never get out… because you’re such a conceited brat.” (55:38–55:54)

• Prison Interview:

  • Netflix features Mackenzie’s first prison interview; her lawyer is present off-camera and cues her to stick with the “no intent/ no recollection” narrative (56:25–57:13).
  • Emily: “This is where she has the opportunity to change public opinion…She doesn’t.”

Public and Family Reaction Post-Sentencing

• Noteworthy Jailhouse Calls:

  • Recent audio clips reveal Mackenzie and her mother giggling after the documentary’s Netflix release, discussing its popularity and dreaming of Kim Kardashian’s advocacy (60:11–61:06).
  • Shane: “Read the comments, lady, on social media, and then call your daughter and tell her how popular she is.” (60:35)

• Final Reflections:

  • The hosts debate whether Mackenzie is delusional or intentionally manipulative, ultimately concluding she’s intentionally lying and “soulless” (62:13–62:47).

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Notable Quotes & Standout Moments

• On the Video Evidence:
  • Shane (17:48): “That piece of evidence was the most damning evidence. She said any lay person watching that footage alone would conclude that you purposely tried to…run into the wall.”
• On Parental Accountability:
  • Emily (36:00): “You basically just said, my daughter can do anything she wants to do and there’s no accountability, and I will support her 100% and…these parents were so ridiculous in this documentary.”
• On Mackenzie’s Social Media Activity:
  • Shane (35:46): “You need to be a little more sensitive, Mackenzie. You just killed someone. I mean, it’s like there is no word.”
  • Emily (54:07): “The mother. I was like, I had secondhand embarrassment watching this mother. It was so cringy.”
• On Mackenzie’s Motive:
  • Emily (50:22): “I think she was obsessed with him…I think her way of preventing him from ever being able to break up with her is this car crash theory that she has…”
• On Jailhouse Phone Calls:
  • Emily (60:23): “…The mother called her and was telling her about how popular this documentary is. And they are giggling on the phone and talking about how it’s global.”
• On Psychological Profile:
  • Emily (62:47): “I think she is a soulless person that should spend the rest of her life in jail, and that’s where she deserves to be.”

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Important Timestamps

• 02:02 – Emily introduces the case and personal connection.
• 03:15 – Case summary: the crash, fatalities, initial claims.
• 05:41 – Fallout for Mackenzie’s father after documentary release.
• 07:38–08:29 – Parental involvement and criticism.
• 09:21–10:33 – Mackenzie’s social circle, relationship, and living conditions.
• 16:12–18:12 – Detailed breakdown of the night of the crash.
• 17:48 – Shane on the damning nature of crash footage.
• 24:54–26:34 – Life360 data, intentionality evidence, and what the documentary left out.
• 38:44 – Audio evidence of past threats.
• 43:54/44:33 – Bench trial vs. jury trial analysis.
• 52:39–54:07 – Sentencing, victim impact statements, and parental embarrassment.
• 55:38 – Judge’s sentence and reasoning.
• 56:25–57:13 – Mackenzie’s prison interview and “no intent” narrative.
• 60:11–61:06 – Mother and Mackenzie after documentary popularity, “Kim Kardashian” mention.
• 62:47 – Emily’s final assessment: “She is a soulless person.”

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Wrap-Up

Legally Brunette’s coverage of the Mackenzie Shirilla case blends true crime analysis, legal critique, and cultural commentary. The hosts are incisive, sometimes sarcastic, always opinionated—and their insights about parenting, intent, and media sensationalism are compelling for any true crime follower or justice system observer.

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Listener Call to Action:
Emily closes by inviting feedback, Instagram messages, and suggestions for future episodes—and jokingly polling opinions on Mackenzie’s infamous prison bun (“That bun is a crime in itself!” – Emily at 56:13).

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Transcript

[Emily Simpson]

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[Emily Simpson]

hi guys. Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette. I will be your host today, Emily Simpson with my sidekick Shane. Shane, first of all, I would like to say that I am super, super excited to do this episode. Actually, I love doing all the episodes, but sometimes there are things that come out in the news that everybody is talking about and this is definitely one of the things that everybody is talking about. It is called the Crash. It was new on Netflix a couple days. I watched it. I watched it the day it came out. You know though, before we get into it, I just want to tell you, when I was watching it, I already knew the story. I had seen it before but I couldn't remember where I had seen it. I thought, well, maybe I saw a 2020 episode or maybe I saw 48 hours or something because when they Were when they showed the social media clips and the story, it happens in Strongsville, Ohio, I was like, I've already seen this, I know this. And then I was called you and I was telling you about it and then I remembered you reminded me that.

[Shane]

Yeah, I had watched documentary on it before.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. And it's called.

[Shane]

Well, no, the YouTube channel is called Dr. Insanity.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes.

[Shane]

And there's no interviews. It's all body cam footage with a narrator.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So I remembered when you told me Shane and I had watched that on YouTube, they did Dr. Insanity did an episode on this case and that's how now I remember where I knew everything from. And then when I was watching it, which we'll get into a little bit more, I remembered that there were some things that are, I feel like are left out of the documentary, the Netflix documentary that were in the YouTube version that we saw on Dr. Insanity. Anyway, all right, let's just go briefly through it, give a synopsis. So we all are on the same page. It's about Mackenzie Shurilla. So this happened in Strongsville, Ohio, back in 2022. 17 year old Mackenzie Shurilla Deliber crashed her car into a brick building at approximately, almost 100 miles per hour, killing her 20 year old boyfriend, Dominic Russo and their 19 year old friend Daven Flanagan. Both passengers died at the scene. Prosecutors argued that the crash was intentional. However, McKenzie's defense insists that her POTS diagnosis caused the accident to occur. We'll talk a little bit later about what that is. I think pots, I don't know exactly what it stands for, but it's some kind of condition where I think you have the tendency to go crazy. Well, not. Well, kill. Kill people in the car.

[Shane]

Yeah, not exactly, but drive into brick walls.

[Emily Simpson]

I think there's some dizzy spells that go along with it. Anyway, as I stated earlier, a Netflix documentary was made on this case called the Crash, which premiered on May 15. The documentary revisits the July 2022 crash and features interviews with the families and friends of Mackenzie, Dominic Russo and Davion Flanagan. It also includes the first ever interview with Mackenzie Shrilla herself. Which by the way, when you and I watched the episode we saw on Dr. Insanity, there was no interview with Mackenzie Shurilla herself.

[Shane]

Oh, so there was an interview with like an she was interrogated?

[Emily Simpson]

No, no, no. They interview her in prison. Oh, so there's a prison interview.

[Shane]

Like would you like to be on this TV show? And they interviewed her.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. So we'll talk more about that.

[Shane]

Oh yeah, no, that was because When I had watched the documentary on the case, she had not yet been sentenced. Right. Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

So you didn't see. So this documentary on Netflix shows the trial. Not all the trials. Some of the trial highlights from the trial and then an interview with her from prison.

[Shane]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

The film has drawn significant attention in the day since its release. And on May 18, Cleveland 19 News reported that MacKenzie's father was placed on administrative leave from his job at Mary Queen of Peace School in Cleveland following the documentary's release. According to the school's website, he is the art and digital media teacher. I would assume that once the documentary aired and. And those parents saw the things that he said and they probably all started. Well, we'll get into it. I feel like when we go more through the case, but not only do we need to talk about true crime and intent and whether she intentionally killed them and all those things, but I think as parents, we also need to examine her parents, because I think most of the talk out there on social media has to do with her and how she, you know, intentionally drove her car into a brick wall. But also the parents. Her parents were interviewed for this documentary. I don't know if that was the smartest thing that they should have done. They probably should have just kept quiet and not been a part of it.

[Shane]

Oh, yeah, because in what I saw, which was the documentary I saw was comprised of just like body cam footage and then maybe some social media stuff, 3D animation to kind describe, you know, like the accident or something. So the parents were not cool when they went to arrest her. I mean, they were like, they. Because they had. I'm skipping a little bit ahead, but when they have her detained and kind of in the. In the back in an interrogation room. Right. Not. Not available. And like, she's not like the front of the police station or anything. And the. And the. The parents are there, they are demanding that she be released and then demanding that they. That she have a lawyer. And they're like, she's 18. She can make her own decision. She's 18. She can make her own decisions. They're like, we're not having you influence her one bit. She's an idiot and wants to speak, we're going to let her speak. So my point of that was the parents were very heavily protective of her.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, as parents should be when your child. Some degree. When your child is arrested. I mean, I probably would do the same thing. The problem is, is that in their interview, the things that they say, the. The lack of accountability.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Is what is so Glaring and what I think people who watch it and

[Shane]

go to social media, it wasn't the tone of like, oh my gosh, that's my baby. I wish she's an attorney. Where is she? Like, it wasn't like concern for her kind of the moment that she's in and trying to care for her. It was like, don't you lay a finger on her. Leave her alone. She didn't do anything. The dad even said she was a dumb kid, she doesn't know anything. They're like, well, she's 18, right? She said that was his last line of defense. He's like, I don't know what else to say. I'll just say she's an idiot.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, she is.

[Shane]

She is.

[Emily Simpson]

Mackenzie. Yeah. Mackenzie Shilla grew up in Strongsville, Ohio. This is northern Ohio.

[Shane]

These are your people.

[Emily Simpson]

These are my people.

[Shane]

I actually just Good that you got out of Ohio.

[Emily Simpson]

Just. Just letting you all know. I flew home from Ohio last night, Just got in. So I was with my people.

[Shane]

Ohio with you because there's something in the water.

[Emily Simpson]

She is active on social media and known for frequently posting about her personal life and relationships. She begins dating Dominic Russo her freshman year of high school. He is a boy from her hometown that is three years older than her. The relationship is described by friends as on and off, emotionally intense and unstable at times. So Mackenzie is 17 and Dominic is age 20. And their relationship continues to fluctuate. At this point, they have been dating for four years and are now living together. Can we just talk about that for a second? First of all, Dominican Dominic has his own house.

[Shane]

No wonder why they didn't know. I wondered why the parents don't know when these kids don't come home till six in the morning or whatever.

[Emily Simpson]

Because at age 17, she was living

[Shane]

with her boyfriend already.

[Emily Simpson]

She had. Apparently. This is the way I understand it. She had graduated from high school already.

[Shane]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

But she was living with her boyfriend Dominic and Dominic's house. Also, apparently Dominic has funds. I mean, he seems to be able to fund a lifestyle. Because they talk about how Mackenzie likes designer things and he buys her clothes. That would be my assumption.

[Shane]

Well, no, that when they found the car, there was a scale and there was mushrooms in there.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, I know, but I'm saying a

[Shane]

scale isn't used to make sure you give yourself the proper dosage.

[Emily Simpson]

I understand.

[Shane]

To distribute.

[Emily Simpson]

It's to distribute. I understand. So Dominic does well financially, but they. I feel like they skip over that.

[Shane]

He still lives at home?

[Emily Simpson]

No, he has his own.

[Shane]

That was his own pad. Oh yes.

[Emily Simpson]

And she went to live with him. My question is what parents allow a 17 year old girl? I don't care. I know she graduated from high school already, but allow her to go live with her 20 year old boyfriend. The shrillas do, exactly.

[Shane]

They're probably like, honey, if you graduate early and you do it, get all,

[Emily Simpson]

you get to go live with your

[Shane]

boyfriend, you can live with your boyfriend.

[Emily Simpson]

Mackenzie's camera roll shows that they are often doing drugs and Dominic is frequently buying her nice gifts. Mackenzie is also closely connected with Davion Flanagan who is part of Dominic's friend group. Now Davion, a big football star, the way I understand it. And then he had an ACL tear and I believe that pretty much ended his hopes of playing college football. They interview Davion's dad in the documentary. Davion and his sister and I believe another sibling. I think there were three siblings that were all adopted by this couple. And I, I, I felt for the dad. He's in the documentary a lot. The mother doesn't participate.

[Shane]

You don't see her in the crash that you saw. Dad did. They did, did the police go to Davion's parents to announce that the son had died? Because in this documentary they did. It was pretty bad to see. I wish I didn't see it.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know if they included that in this one. I get misunderstood then I don't think it was in there. They interviewed him and he was, he was pretty heavily in this documentary giving interviews and it just, it made me sad because I felt like he started hanging out kind of with the wrong crowd when he had that injury. And I feel like if he had

[Shane]

never had that injury, probably never gone to that party.

[Emily Simpson]

Right?

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[Emily Simpson]

So this is July 31, 2022. So we're getting to the actual incident now. This is in the very early morning hours like we were just talking about. They're all at a graduation party. There's several friends. There's a big group of them. They all interview these friends in the documentary as well. They leave the house around 5am so Mackenzie Shilla is driving her Toyota Camry. She has Dominic Russo in the front passenger seat. That's the boyf. And Davion Flanagan is in the back seat. The vehicle is recorded traveling at extremely high speeds through Strongsville roads. However, they show footage. I watched it in the trial. They show footage where she's actually driving around where she wrecks eventually and she's going a normal speed. They show that she has control of the car, that at. At one point that she's methodically right that right turn.

[Shane]

She signaled she was slow like normal, and then bam.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So then the vehicle is recorded traveling at extremely high speeds through Strongsville roads. According to investigators, the car reaches approximately 100 miles per hour before impact. It travels directly into a brick industrial building. You know, they have.

[Shane]

And that was fast. Did you see the footage?

[Emily Simpson]

I did. They showed. They showed the footage during the trial. They showed it multiple times. And, you know, I can tell you during that trial, I think that was the first time that a lot of people saw that footage. I don't think it was released anywhere. And I think there were a lot of people who were supportive of her thinking that it was an accident. They saw the footage until they saw that footage.

[Shane]

Well, the judge said that that Footage. That piece of evidence was the most damning evidence. She said any lay person watching that footage alone would conclude that you purposely tried to, you know, run to the wall.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, Right. The car. So the car reaches approximately, first of all, 100 miles per hour. I mean, that is so.

[Shane]

Well, and it's on a road that didn't even warrant, like. Like, you couldn't even. No one goes that fast on that street. No, like, it was just like a. Like it went to, like, a little commercial or business center.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, right. So there was also no indication of breaking or evasive movement before the collision. Dominic Russo and Davion Flanagan are both killed instantly, and Mackenzie Shurilla survives the crash with injuries. Let's talk about that a, though, because we know that McKenzie was the only one wearing a seat belt. The other two didn't have a seat belt on.

[Shane]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

Here's my question. Did she intentionally wear a seat belt knowing that, first of all, I. Davion was collateral damage to her. That's my thought.

[Shane]

He.

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[Shane]

They had said that he was hitching a ride to get home, and she and Dom. Dominic, yeah, that's the boyfriend or, you know, whatever, had an issue with him coming. And she was adamant about no. And then he was more like, let's give him a ride. So they fought a little bit, probably just for, like, you know, 30 seconds or whatever. And then eventually Davion was able to get in the car. And so if that's true, that kind of demonstrates, like, she's like, I only want to kill one person today.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. But now. But now I'm gonna have to kill two because he's in the back seat.

[Shane]

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[Emily Simpson]

But my question is, she has a seatbelt on.

[Shane]

Did she Did. What was her intent with her own life?

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Was she prepared to die that day?

[Shane]

Legally, it doesn't matter.

[Emily Simpson]

I know legally, it doesn't matter, but I'm really trying to understand what was going through her thought process because I. I'm 100 convinced she did it on purpose. And so if she did it on purpose, does she know that Dominic doesn't wear a seat belt? Like, does Dominic not normally wear a seat belt? And she knows that. So then she puts a seatbelt on, knowing that she has a better chance of surv driving and that he won't. And then Davion in the back is just collateral damage. Who happens to be back there?

[Shane]

I don't know. All I know is, I don't know, it's probably better she didn't die so she can sit in a prison cell forever.

[Emily Simpson]

Authorities initially treat the incident as a possible tragic high speed accident. You know, the body cam footage of when the police officers walk up to this car. I mean, you can hear the panic in the police officers voices. Well, it's, it's a, that car exploded. It hit a brick wall at 100 miles per hour with no braking, at none, none, zero, just. And it just disintegrated and blew up. And when those police officers with their body cam footage or, you know, they're walking up to the car and they're talking and they're saying to call the, you know, emergency. And now all these things and they're. They see one body, I think they see her first, but then they can't even see the other two bodies at first. They have to like really get in there and start pulling the car apart before they even realize there's two other bodies in there.

[Shane]

Did the documentary show how the vehicle was found? Like how they came across it?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know.

[Shane]

I don't remember. It was a motorcyclist that rode by about 45 minutes after the accident. They probably figured 45 minutes because of the, oh, because of the, the video cameras. Right. And they figured. And then when he called it. And so he called it, reported it, and then the cops come. Right. He comes by again later on his little Harley.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

And he's just like, like, kind of like, oh, what ended up happening, you know? Yeah, he was chill and they were talking to him. He was just more like, like, that's not a way to start your Sunday. He was just like very like unemotional.

[Emily Simpson]

So you're telling me that they sat in that car, that they were all in that car for about 45 minutes before anyone arrived on the scene, at least.

[Shane]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's 45 minutes from when he called and then it was another 10 minutes before they were able to arrive.

[Emily Simpson]

So they were in that car for about 55 minutes.

[Shane]

They might have died on impact though,

[Emily Simpson]

I imagine, I assume that they did. We know that she was alive, obviously, but. But incapacitated. Investigators began analyzing the vehicle condition, the road environment, possible driver impairment or medical emergency. I assume at first, and this is probably what a lot of people were thinking was that there was alcohol involved because they were all at a party. Right. And they find, they find, I believe they find mushrooms in her clothing. And then I think there's.

[Shane]

In the car Too. There's mushrooms in the car.

[Emily Simpson]

And then I think there's also marijuana found as well. So I'm sure the initial reaction is that this is some type of impaired driving. Right? That they're all at a party, that somebody's high who shouldn't be driving. It's a tragic accident with these three young people. Early theories include that the accident was due to a loss of control or a car malfunction or some type of medical episode or a drug related crash, reckless driving, maybe that had gone wrong. However, early data begins to shift the direction of the case. What is that little black box from the car? You know what it is?

[Shane]

The OBD2 sensation answer.

[Emily Simpson]

I love that you know that.

[Shane]

I think most people do.

[Emily Simpson]

I had to know it was called.

[Shane]

Well, not people you hang out with.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, I'm sorry, other people. Not housewives, Regular people. Well, here in my, in my notes it says it's called an edr. Do you know what that stands for?

[Shane]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

Now you're gonna have to look it up. The edr, which is the black box of it. You know, I learned about a black box in a car back when we did Karen Reed. I wasn't aware that there was a black box in a car. Kind of like a black box in an airplane that actually records everything like going forward, backwards, re reverse, all those type of things. I didn't know that it did that, but I learned that when we did the Karen Reed episodes and remember they pulled the information from the black box to talk about how she had, you know, reversed at a certain speed and things like that.

[Shane]

They need to start adding like voice recorders in the, like cockpit recorders in the cars now.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Shane]

So you can start to see what happened in our last moments. Because, you know, plane has a black box and a cockpit audio recorder.

[Emily Simpson]

Right?

[Shane]

Two different devices.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? Well, yeah, you're right. So that's. Can you imagine if we could hear the audio of what happened, happened in that car?

[Shane]

I don't know if I'd want to.

[Emily Simpson]

I wouldn't want to either. But I tell you, it would answer a lot of questions because I think that's what's. So, I mean, that's the mystery.

[Shane]

Surely it would answer a lot of questions.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, that's the mystery of this case is what happened in those, like, how many seconds did it take when she hit the gas at full throttle to go 100 miles an hour towards, towards a brick wall? I mean, was, was Davion in the back?

[Shane]

Yeah. Because weren't there kids that looked at their life360 some kids kind of were looking at the tracks and kind of had they. It looked like a little swerve. And then right before. And so they, they were guessing, of course, and it didn't really matter, but that maybe he was reaching over in the steering wheel trying to, trying to move it, like don't, don't hit the wall, you know, stop kind of thing. I mean, yeah, that's psycho. You're in a car and someone, you're a passenger and they're going that fast straight towards a building and you have no ability to stop it. I know, I mean, you know what's gonna happen, right?

[Emily Simpson]

Right. The most critical evidence comes from the cars. Oh, it's an event Data Recorder. That's what EDR stands for. It shows the accelerator pressed at or a near full throttle in the very final moments. No brake application before the impact and sustained high speed travel into the crash site. The prosecutors argued that this indicates that it was a deliberate control of the vehicle. No attempt to stop or avoid impact and an intentional acceleration rather than just panic. Now this. When I was watching the documentary on Netflix, I remember when you and I were watching the Doctor Insanity episode, to me it was very clear that the. I think it was the other high school kids because, you know, they all have each other on Life360. And I believe that they had evidence that showed that she had gone to that specific site previously, I think three days prior and kind of had driven around. She mapped it out, that area.

[Shane]

She didn't go 90 miles an hour into a wall either when she was doing that.

[Emily Simpson]

No, but she had driven around that area. Right. She had kind of circled it.

[Shane]

Right. And that area, not in route to Davian's house.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

It's clearly she deviated from the path right to his house. So it made no sense that she went where she went.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Now in this Netflix documentary they show some of these high school kids that are go in and they're talking to the investigators and they're kind of showing the Life360 and stuff. But they do not. And maybe I missed it, but I. My takeaway from the Netflix documentary was that they did not make it clear that she had three days prior gone to that specific site and had driven that path. Kind of like a pre planning type of drive by or whatever you want

[Shane]

to call it, staking it out.

[Emily Simpson]

And then I was thinking to myself, why would they leave that out? Because even when they showed parts of the trial, I don't believe that was shown either.

[Shane]

That's important and I think that's very important.

[Emily Simpson]

I think that's such a huge important piece of evidence to show intent and what she was thinking.

[Shane]

When they show that so and so bought the weapon on Amazon, it's like it's setting up the crime right?

[Ad Host]

Foreign Lets talk about a condition many people haven't heard of and it turns out it's more common than you'd think. Peyronie's disease, or PD for short. Peyronie's disease or PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis. This can cause a curve with a bump during an erection and for some men lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health. It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lowered self esteem, and even withdraw from sexual activity and physical intimacy. Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about pd. The actual cause of PD isn't always known. In some cases it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity. The good news is PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options including non surgical treatment treatment. To learn more about Peyronie's disease, visit talkaboutpd.com support for the show comes from

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Emily Simpson]

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[Emily Simpson]

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[Shane]

I said I don't remember how those kids believe that to be the case. They were looking at the the tracks in the grass and they kind of came with that conclusion. Like I said, at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Legally, it's she still killed them.

[Emily Simpson]

So they found that there was a direct path straight into the building. There was no evidence of swerving or

[Shane]

correction and no hard breaking in the Life360 it was 90 plus miles an hour or whatever it was all the way till it hit the wall.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? No skid marks consistent with any type of breaking zero and experts testify that this type of pattern is inconsistent with a typical accidental crash. Because if it's an accident, obviously everyone's.

[Shane]

Even if it's a second before you would break.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Nearby cameras capture the vehicle traveling at high speed before the crash. And the footage shows no visible braking and no reduction in speed before impact. We already talked about that security footage. It's they only they don't get the actual crash into the wall on the.

[Shane]

It just as it leaves the frame. You hear it.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? Right. You see the car fly by an extreme speed and then within a split second you, you hear the crash. Which sounds like, like, like a bomb.

[Shane]

Like a plane crash. Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

This used alongside the black box data is used to establish a continuous timeline of acceleration.

[Shane]

Okay, so I looked it up. EDR is the black box.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

Airbags go off, you know, breaking or engine failure or something like that. Like all those things. OBD 2 sensors, more diagnostics of the engine. But I know it can also do like hard braking and speed and a few other things. So it looks like the EDR is something that's more newer for this reason to do an investigation.

[Emily Simpson]

They also, I know they found a slipper that she had been wearing that day when she drove home at like 5 o' clock in the morning. I guess she had a Prada slipper or something that they found, you know, kind of lodged under the, I think the gas pedal maybe. So then they, they thought, okay, well maybe her, her slipper got stuck on the accelerator or something. But they did.

[Shane]

Defense team thought that up.

[Emily Simpson]

No, it was.

[Shane]

Believe it was just when they were brainstorming.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, they did all the testing and the vehicle, they made sure the vehicle wasn't malfunctioning. Like they made sure the brakes were in working order and that the accelerator and that there wasn't anything stuck. And then they found the slipper kind of lodged underneath the gas pedals. So then they tested that, but they, they just came to the conclusion that it was just.

[Shane]

What's her story? Does she claim that she didn't see the wall or what her story.

[Emily Simpson]

And she's been consistent. I got to give her credit for consistency. She says that she does. She only remembers. Remembers leaving the house that morning and she has no recollection of anything after that. That's it.

[Shane]

It's just easier. She doesn't remember anything.

[Emily Simpson]

And so that's her story. She stuck to it when she was in court. And when they interview her again at the end of this documentary when they interview her in prison, it's basically like, I just remember leaving the house and I don't remember anything else. And that is her story.

[Shane]

And that's what my dad said to say, and that's what I'm saying, and

[Emily Simpson]

that's what I'm sticking to. And that's what she says. So. On November of 2022, Mackenzie Shrilla is arrested and charged in connection with the

[Shane]

deaths of Dom Halloween, what she dressed up as two months later, three months later, actually. She dresses up as like a corpse. Yeah. She had blood on her and makeup to look like a corpse and ripped clothes.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

I'm surprised she didn't have like a, you know, I don't know, a steering wheel around her head or something.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, God.

[Shane]

I mean, clearly that's what she was doing.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I mean, everything she did was tone deaf after those.

[Shane]

Those trying to get reactions and attention.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I don't. You know, they. They show a lot of her interaction on social media. She kept posting, like, her outfit of the day, and she kept trying to reach out.

[Shane]

She was saying, like, I can do all kinds of drugs. I'll never die. Like, I can't die. And she said stuff like that. And you're like, okay, you think you're invincible now?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. And I. I know that Davion's dad talked about her social media and how even her mom was in it, where it was like someone, you know, some company reached out to her and said, we want to, you know, send you something. And then the mom replied, oh, my gosh, Mackenzie would be so great to get. It would be so great to get a PR package. She's been trying to get a PR package. And, you know, after the mur. This is after the murder. Yeah. So I'm saying the dad of Davion Flanagan, when he's interviewed, he shows these social media posts where it's like the mom McKenzie and her mom, I mean, she just killed two people and she cares about deals. Yeah. She's out there trying to get collabs and PR boxes and, you know, she's just posting on social media and completely tone deaf. And, you know, she's just out and about, you know, trying to be an influencer.

[Shane]

And that's beyond tone deaf. She killed him.

[Emily Simpson]

I know. It's beyond tone deaf. Yeah.

[Shane]

You need to be a little more sensitive, Mackenzie. You just killed someone. I mean, it's like there is no word.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know what's beyond tone deaf. I don't even know what you call it. Insanity. I don't know. But I mean, the mother. I mean, the mother.

[Shane]

Those parents were totally on board with their daughter as a saint and would never do such a thing.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, the dad even makes some remark in this Netflix documentary. I don't remember exactly what it was, but McKenzie got in trouble at school for something. I don't remember what it was. People talk about how she was a bully and, you know, she wasn't nice and she was. She got in trouble and she was defiant and all these things. I guess he went to the school and she said, I didn't do it. He was like, well, that's good enough for me. And I grabbed her and I left and I took her home. And I thought, wow. I mean, that just right there in this interview bite right here in front of the world, millions of people watching this. You basically just said, my daughter can do anything she wants to do and there's no accountability, and I will support her. 100 and I'm telling you, you. These parents were so ridiculous in this documentary. That's why he's on administrative leave. Because I think people watched it. They know he's a teacher at that private school. Those parents of these private school kids,

[Shane]

like, we don't want that guy, are

[Emily Simpson]

thinking, we don't want this guy associated with the school. We pay money for our kids to go there. And so I. I bet they got a plethora of emails from parents saying, he doesn't represent what, you know, what our school is, what we're paying for. And that's why he's on administrative leave.

[Shane]

Right. His integrity is in question.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly. Also, there were cell phone forensics, so there was text messages that prove McKenzie and Dominic's relationship was extremely volatile. McKenzie had threatened to crash her car with Dom in the passenger seat once before. They showed. They brought this up during trial. They said Dominic Russo's mother testified that Dominic, that's the boyfriend, had called her and said that he was in a

[Shane]

car to come pick him up.

[Emily Simpson]

Wanted picked up because he was scared, because she was driving erratically and threatening to kill him or something in a car crash.

[Shane]

I. I think it was the other way around. He was driving probably her car because they said that was pretty typical. And she kept hitting him and he couldn't drive and he was afraid to crash. She was such an obstruction to him by hitting him and causing issue and probably saying things that were, you know,

[Emily Simpson]

I think this is another specific event. I think that she was driving and she threatened to crash. And that's and he had called his mom. Mom. And said that he was scared to be with her.

[Shane]

Okay, well, then this is another specific.

[Emily Simpson]

And the mom sent a friend. His name's Hench. I don't know what that means. I don't know if it's a boyfriend or what, but to come and find him because he was scared of being in the car with her. So they testified about that in court, and that was another piece of evidence to establish that she had previously.

[Shane]

Did they show the audio? The. It was a video clip. Clip, but it was record. It was a video showing another phone playing an audio clip. Did they show that?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. What was that?

[Shane]

The boyfriend's phone had, like, an audio message from her. And. And so I think the brother was doing his own little investigation of the. The. The brother. After his brother died. He kind of, you know, poked around, right. And there was an audio message. Basically, she was saying, I'm gonna kill you. Like, if you don't come over. If you. If you break up with me, I can't live. I'm gonna kill you. Like that kind of stuff.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, yeah, that's when she was trying House.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

She wouldn't leave.

[Shane]

Yeah, I think it was a 15 minute, like, message.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Shane]

It's like psycho.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, they showed that in court.

[Shane]

And he goes to a party with her. See, what. How does that work?

[Emily Simpson]

This is. This is young, crazy love. Dominic should have gotten away from that girl a long time ago, and Davion should have never gotten in the car that day. And all we can do is say that that should have never happened. But it did.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And it's. It's just a horrible, horrible situation and tragedy. You know, there were some of the kids that came in that were the. Associated with them that came in and were interviewed by police.

[Shane]

She was so. I think she was so obvious in her craziness.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

That it caused kids on their own to go talk about it, look into it, and then bring their own testimonies to these investigators. Right.

[Emily Simpson]

There was the one friend that came in. I don't remember his name, but he was interviewed by the police. Police. And he said. Because I think the question comes down to why did Dom continue to stay with her if she was so crazy?

[Shane]

And another question I think is, is. Is do you think she tried to kill herself or this. Them? Like, what do you. What do you make of this accident?

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

And that's when he said.

[Emily Simpson]

He said that he. She. She claimed to do voodoo on him. Is that what it was?

[Shane]

He claimed that she did voodoo.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. He claimed that she did voodoo.

[Shane]

He said it kind of like, like, oh, yeah, she knows voodoo. Like, he said it kind of like, like, you know, that, like she got a book and voodoo on him and so he's trapped.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. And then she killed him and he can't get out.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And that's where it's at.

[Shane]

He said it so, like, nonchalantly, like, you know, voodoo.

[Emily Simpson]

Voodoo. Right.

[Shane]

Then two other kids came forward with Life360.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

And they showed, look, 90 plus miles an hour or whatever. 100 miles an hour, non stop. No hard break. Like they showed it. I think that's when they showed the trail of her going several times.

[Emily Simpson]

You know, I think so too. But I, I, I think also there was surveillance video that caught her the three days before.

[Shane]

Well, that might have caused them to do that too.

[Emily Simpson]

But I'm telling you, and maybe I'm wrong, but I'm telling you, in that Netflix documentary, when those kids are showing the 360 and they're showing the path, they do not make it clear that it was three days prior and that she was scoping out the situation. Yeah. All right, so we get to November of 2022. Mackenzie Shilla is arrested and charged in connection with the deaths of Dominic Russo and Davon Flanagan. Prosecutors charge her with counts of murder, aggravated vehicular homicide. The cases move forward as a serious felony case in adult court due to the severity of the allegations. Despite her young age at the time,

[Shane]

you know, five days before her 18th birthday.

[Emily Simpson]

Anyways, I know I, I actually loved seeing her get arrested.

[Shane]

She acts so surprised. Like what?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I think she was surprised. She was surprised, though. She wasn't acting. Do you think she thought, she thought she got away with it?

[Shane]

Yeah, that's true.

[Emily Simpson]

She didn't think they were going to arrest her. She over there on social media making videos and dressing up like a corpse and getting collabs and doing outfits of

[Shane]

the day, all kinds of money, smoking

[Emily Simpson]

pot and rolling around in cash. She doesn't care. She doesn't think she's getting arrested?

[Shane]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

The defense argues that Mackenzie Shilla did not intentionally cause the crash. Their main points include that it was a possible medical emergency related to McKenzie's POTS condition. POTS can affect neurological functions, causing dizzy dizziness, lightheadedness, feigning, and severe brain fog. However, you know what, during the trial, they, they claim that she has this, you know, disorder and that could have been a possibility, but they don't have any type of medical testimony about it,

[Shane]

cuz she has no history of it, probably.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I think she was actually diagnosed with it, but I'm saying they don't have a medical why?

[Shane]

Expert.

[Emily Simpson]

Expert.

[Commercial Announcer]

Why?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know, but that's part of why she tries to appeal her case or she. I think she tries to get. I don't know if it's on appeal or if she tries to get a new trial based on ineffective counsel, saying that her defense attorney should have had, you know, medical experts to testify as to her disorder. So, anyway, she goes to trial, we get to 20, 23. This is in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, and she opts for a bench trial, which I. I guess in Ohio, you can have a bench trial or you can do a jury trial. I as well. I don't know. If you were Mackenzie Shrilla, which is better for her, a bench trial or a jury? Probably a bench trial.

[Shane]

I don't know. The. The thinking behind a jury is you might get a simple empathy vote. Right.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, you know, like, O.J.

[Shane]

wanted a jury trial because you want a football fan on there that's gonna say O.J. didn't do it.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, right, right.

[Shane]

He won the Heisman Trophy. He couldn't kill his wife.

[Emily Simpson]

I also read, because I was looking up what the benefits are, and I read that if you have a case that's technical, that has. Oh, yeah, that is complicated, or might have forensic.

[Shane]

Sometimes the judge won't let you.

[Emily Simpson]

That it's better to have a bench trial because a judge. Judges is more able to decipher things and to really think critically.

[Shane]

It's like, if there's, like, contracts or something really like that, or, you know, then they'll have a bench trial. But also, you want a bench trial if you think like, that judge has seen it all.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

He's not gonna care. Like, he's gonna think, like, she deserved it. You know, if it's like an assault case or something.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, yeah.

[Shane]

So sometimes you want to bench trial if a judge isn't going to be so sensitive, so sympathetic. Yeah. And he'll be kind of like, all right, 30 days, you're fine.

[Ad Host]

Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of, and it turns out it's more common than you'd think. Peyronie's disease, or PD for short. Peyronie's disease, or pd, can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis. This can cause a curve with a bump during an erection, and for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental. Mental health. It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lowered self esteem, and even withdrawal from sexual activity and physical intimacy. Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about pd. The actual cause of PD isn't always known. In some cases it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity. The good news is PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with the the bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options including non surgical treatment. To learn more about Peyronie's disease, visit talkaboutpd.com support for the show comes from

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Emily Simpson]

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[Emily Simpson]

So McKenzie's case is heard in a bench trial. So there's no jury. And this is at McKenzie's Choice. The prosecution argues that the crash was intentional and controlled, not accidental. And the defense maintains that it was a medical emergency and lack of intent argument throughout the trial. They claim Mackenzie was not suicidal and would not risk her own life. You know, that's my only. I. I'm 100 convinced she did it on purpose. It was intentional. She wanted to kill her boyfriend. She was crazy. All those things. I still don't understand what she thought was going to. Was she okay dying that day?

[Shane]

She thought, I'll put on a seat belt and hope for the best. Right.

[Emily Simpson]

And it just worked out for her.

[Shane]

Right. But if not, she was. That was the risk she was willing to take in order to kill her boyfriend. But they weren't broken up that night. They were at a party together. So why did she do it that night?

[Emily Simpson]

Because I. I heard or read that he had been talking about how he wanted to get away from her and that he did want to break up with her. And I have a feeling that maybe when she left the car that morning and we don't know what happened in that car, when they left at 5am and they were driving away, maybe it came up. Maybe they got in an argument. Maybe he said something like, you know, this isn't working out. And then.

[Shane]

So she driving erratically?

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. You're driving like a man break up with you.

[Shane]

You know, the two boys that came in with the Life360 to show her her activity, which was actually Daven's activity. Life360.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, that's. That's who they had on their.

[Shane]

Daven's friends technically. Like they came in as Daven's contacts his friends and showed that they had life three connected with Daven. And then I, I understand life 360 is. Well, you can have a setting. You have it always on or only on when you have the app open.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

And for whatever reason they were saying they believed Daven was on his phone. That's why the Life360 was working. And they're saying he was probably on his phone because they were fighting so much in the front two seats that he. He wanted to Stay out of the whole thing. He just wanted to go, go home. So they're like, he probably just buried his head in his phone and just played on his phone while they were fighting. Anyway, that was just a way of saying they were probably bickering in the phone. Which is what you were wondering if what was going on in the car.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I mean, obviously we'll never know what happened. But my, my theory would be they left that morning and that there was some type of argument between the two of them and that he had said something about leaving or breaking up. And then that's when she took the opportunity. And that's why she went a different path. She knew exactly where she was going to go. She'd already scoped it out.

[Shane]

So you don't think she said, after this party tomorrow night, I'm going to kill him. It was more like she was on the verge. And then he gave her another. The reason that put her over the top to pull the trigger.

[Emily Simpson]

I think she was obsessed with him and she wanted. Yeah, I think she was obsessed with him. I think she wanted to be with him. I think she wanted to marry him. When there are rumblings from him that he's not happy, that he's suggesting that they break up, that he's saying, you're crazy, I can't do this. Then I think her way way of preventing him from ever being able to break up with her is this car crash theory that she has that she'll just take him out. And so I think that she pre planned it and drove around and knew exactly what she was going to do. I don't think she knew when she was going to do it.

[Shane]

Oh, it could have been that she didn't want David in the car. Let, let's. There's two scenarios. Either she got in the car with the plan or she got in the car and then planned it. Right. Lynn thought, okay, screw you, I'm gonna continue kill you. Right. So either way, she wouldn't want Daven in there. She wouldn't want David in there because she wants to be with Dominic all herself or whatever and talk with him. Or the other scenario was, I'm gonna, I have plans, Daven, and they don't include you.

[Emily Simpson]

I just think something happened in the car.

[Shane]

I don't think that made her think, okay, this is it.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Because I don't think she left that morning from that house thinking that she was going to do that because they were fell asleep together. And I think maybe there was even someone that said that they had like, he had like rubbed on her hair. And I don't think they got in a fight.

[Shane]

Looked like they were cuddly.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I think something happened in that car that triggered her and then she knew exactly what she was gonna do and she did it. So the judge. This is in August of 2023. The verdict comes out and the judge finds that Mackenzie Sherilla guilty on all counts, including two counts of murder, aggravated vehicular homicide. And the court concludes that the crash was intentional rather than actual accidental. During her sentencing, the victims made impact statements. Christine Russo, who is Dominic's mother, said, I lost three children in that crash. Not a minute goes by each day that I don't think about my son as well as Davion. My heart is forever broken.

[Shane]

Devine Flanagan, three being the third being MacKenzie, I guess I'm sure a kid that came over the house, like, she probably had an attachment to her.

[Emily Simpson]

This is Davon's sister. I thought she spoke very well for her young age. I. It showed her come up and speak. She asked that the court give Sherilla longest possible sentence. Natalie Sharilla, who is McKenzie's mother. Okay.

[Shane]

This was this, was this the statement of all statements?

[Emily Simpson]

This was so embarrassing. I had secondhand embarrassment watching this. She goes up to speak and she spoke only of her daughter's innocence. She does not say anything about the other. It's too late.

[Shane]

She's already convicted. Guilty.

[Emily Simpson]

I know, but she's. I'm sure. Well, she hasn't sentenced her yet, so.

[Shane]

I know.

[Emily Simpson]

So the mom's pleading for the, the lesser amount of time.

[Shane]

But then shouldn't you plead. Yeah, but shouldn't you plead on like, like she has goals and she, she just made a mistake kind of thing? Like she can get back on the right path after she serves a. A sentence. Not like you're wrong. You're on in the. And the judge is the one that found her guilty.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So she's trying to tell the female

[Shane]

judge that she was wrong.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. She spoke only of her daughter's innocence. And when the judge asked why she would not speak about the victims, she gave half hearted responses saying they'll miss Dom dearly and called Davion a new friend. I tell you, when she, she called the judge said to her, you're talking about your daughter, but you have, you show no remorse because you haven't even talked about the victims at all. She killed two people and you're, you're up here giving that.

[Shane]

I know, right?

[Emily Simpson]

And then she said, oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then she. The mom. The mom backpedals and she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, we. We love Dom. Yeah. And you know Davion, you know's great. Yeah. She's like, dom's great. And then she. When she refers to Davion, she goes, well. And you know Davion. I. I don't know. He's a new friend. And the judge was like, what is that happen have to. To do with.

[Shane]

She might have gotten the sentence she was gonna get anyway, but that sure didn't help. That probably made it worse.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, the mother. I. I was like, I had secondhand embarrassment watching this mother. It was so cringy. And the judge was just hardcore reprimanding her. She looked like an idiot. She. It was so embarrassing. She didn't do anything to help her daughter. All she did was make it a million times worse. She looks like a complete idiot.

[Shane]

She proved everyone's understanding that Mackenzie is a psycho killer.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Mackenzie actually spoke and called Dominic her soulmate. And families of Dominic and Davion. I'm so deeply sorry. I hope one day you can see I would never let this happen or do it on purpose. I wish I could remember. And then she ends it with, I wish I could remember what happened. She's sticking to that story.

[Shane]

Why? How would that help Mackenzie? What's she trying to say?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, she's sticking to that. She just doesn't know what happened. I mean, she's gonna.

[Shane]

She's trying to reiterate.

[Emily Simpson]

She's reiterating that, you know, she.

[Shane]

I didn't do it.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know do it. That I. That I. If I don't know what happened. I had no intent. Right. It all goes to intent. The reason she was found guilty was because she intentionally killed them. She intentionally hit the gas, went 100 miles an hour, and intentionally drove into a wall. If she continues to stick to I don't know what happened, I don't remember anything, then there's no intent. And so that's what she's sticking to. Clearly, her attorney told her that. And she is just her dad and

[Shane]

her mom and dad.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So at the sentencing, Mackenzie Shilla is sentenced to 15 years to life for each murder case conviction served concurrently. She will be eligible for parole after serving the minimum term, which is estimated to be around 2037.

[Shane]

Did you see the sentencing? That judge actually hand over the sentencing?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I saw that. Yeah.

[Shane]

She said, you'll never get out. Yeah, I think I took it as like, you're such a conceited yeah. Brat.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

That you'll never make.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. You know, then at the end, this is the part. So you didn't see this because you didn't see the Netflix version, but they do interview her. They show her clip come in, they to the prison and they interview her. First of all, she should be found guilty despite she has the most ridiculous bun in her hair. That bun. I, I, she is the bun.

[Shane]

A crime itself.

[Emily Simpson]

The bun is a crime. She should be imprisoned just for the bun.

[Shane]

She shouldn't get, get out on good behavior because she had a bun.

[Emily Simpson]

No, that bun is ridiculous in her.

[Shane]

She probably doesn't have a mirror.

[Emily Simpson]

No, she does. Cuz she has makeup on. She looks nice. She put herself together. So that bun killer, that bun was an intentional. She answers some questions, she doesn't really say much. And then in the end, I love that the producers did this. They, they allow her attorney is present in the room with her. You don't know it when she's being interviewed because he's off to the side, he's not on camera because they ask her like, do you want to say anything else or something like that? Is there something else you'd like to say? And she goes, no, I just want to really hang hammer down the, the no intent thing. Right. Like the no intent. And then she, she kind of refers to the attorney.

[Shane]

Is that what it's called?

[Emily Simpson]

The no intent. Right. And you can hear him speaking and she speaks to him. And they left that in there to

[Shane]

show she has an attorney here.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

Helping guide her.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And you know, I thought this, this girl, and if she was had, if she had a mother, a good mother at all, this mother would say to her, her, you've done a horrible thing and now you're going to pay for it. And you need to spend your time making yourself a better person. You need to figure out a way in prison where you can help other people, where you can show remorse. You need to write letters to these families. I don't know, whatever it is, you need to join a group. You need to find Jesus. You need to whatever it is. But she needs to do something that shows that she has a soul and that, that she is trying to work

[Shane]

on Contrast to Chris Watts who killed his wife, pregnant wife, Shannan and two little girls. And then the father in the interrogation room was very. Yeah, Chris Watts father. The murderer's father was very much like, you need to come, like, you need to tell us what happened. Yeah, this is your chance.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

Where are they? What happened? Yeah, like like, let's just lay it all. I don't remember his words, but he was like, just lay it all out on the table and let's move on.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. See, now that's what this mother needs to know.

[Shane]

And it hurt that dad to say that. You could tell he was. Of course, he didn't want to hear the answer, but he was wanted. He want the answer needed to be known.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And.

[Shane]

And because of him, they found her quickly. And the two girls, which they might have never found because they were put in those tanks.

[Emily Simpson]

Those tanks. Right.

[Shane]

And so, yeah, that father did the right thing.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly. This mother, she's awful. Right? At the very end of this documentary, this is where she has the opportunity to change public opinion of who she is, to talk about remorse or what she's doing to better herself or how she's going to change the world or help people or do anything good to show that she has any kind of soul. And she doesn't.

[Shane]

No. And she'll. She'll be in there forever. Did. Did you see how she tried to negotiate with the. Whoever was interrogating her in the very beginning? Saying she said. She said like, well, can I just like, lose my license for 10 years or something?

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, that's what she was like, oh, okay.

[Shane]

Yeah, negotiate. Oh, yeah, no problem. Ten years sounds good to us.

[Emily Simpson]

Right?

[Shane]

That's a fair deal. You want to talk about tone deaf?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

Two people are dead and she's thinking about her driving as a punishment.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

And I think she said it in the tone of. Of like, that would also suck for her.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, yeah. Like that I'll sacrifice that.

[Shane]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

Like, I'll give that up.

[Shane]

Right, right. And it was like, you're not gonna drive ever.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

You're done.

[Emily Simpson]

Just one last thing before we conclude this episode. But now, because this case is everywhere, it's all over social media now. I've seen so many audio clips of what do they call, jailhouse recordings between her mother, Natalie and McKenzie. And once this documentary, well, it's like number one on Netflix.

[Shane]

After she sentenced, phone calls with her mother.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, the other several. But I'm going to talk about just specifically in this very recent time frame, within the last couple of days, again,

[Shane]

after way after her sensing now she's right, guilty.

[Emily Simpson]

The mother called her and was telling her about how popular this documentary is. And they are giggling on the phone and talking about how it's global. And she's so excited. The Daily Mail picked it up.

[Shane]

Read the comments, lady, on social media, and then call your daughter and tell her how popular she is.

[Emily Simpson]

Normally Shane says, don't read the comments, but in this situation, he would like McKenzie to read the comments. But then she makes the comment and says something to the effect of, I hope Kim Kardashian, you know, helps me or something.

[Shane]

And like, they'll. Like what, they'll do a. A movie about her and then Kim Kardashian will play her, I think, because

[Emily Simpson]

does it cuz Kim Kardashian wants get her commune, her son's commune, you know, with wrongly convicted.

[Shane]

Wrongly convicted.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, she's convinced that she's wrongly convicted

[Shane]

and she's going to keep convicted.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

Do you think that she thinks she didn't do it, like she's so crazy? Or do you think she's just sticking to her story and she's used to crying and complaining and then her dad and everyone saying, it's okay?

[Emily Simpson]

Dear, that is a really good question. I always have this question about other people, too, in our lives. When I say. When I say things like, do you think she knows that she's lying, or is she just so delusional that she actually believes her own lies? Remember, we say that about a lot of people. So in this instance, it's the same scenario, right? Does she truly believe she's innocent because she's just that delusional and she's had no accountability her whole life and she has horrible parents? Or is she absolutely lying and she knows she's lying, lying, but she's just a psychopath and she doesn't care?

[Shane]

I think the way she's lived, she whines, complains, stop her feet. And she's so obnoxious that everyone around her prices. Okay, okay, okay, fine, fine. We won't break up. Okay, okay, okay, fine.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

Keep it. Okay, okay. You didn't do it. Fine. Because they're probably so fed up with her that they always give in. But in this case, case it didn't work, right? Judge isn't going to be like, okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. Go away.

[Emily Simpson]

No, I. If I had to pick, I would say I think she's well aware that she's lying and she knows that it was intentional. And I. I just think she has no soul. I think she. I think she is a soulless person that should spend the rest of her life in jail, and that's where she deserves to be. And that's that.

[Shane]

And she will be. Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

All right. Thank you guys so much for listening to Legally Brunette. That is our episode on the Crash. If you haven't any further thoughts or comments, please send me a message on Instagram. I love to read your feedback. Also, make sure you follow Legally Brunette wherever you listen to podcasts. And again, if you have any recommendations of other cases, we love to hear it. So thank you so much for listening. And please tell your friends and family.

[Shane]

Oh, yeah, I was going to say, let us know if you like her bun or not.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, do you? Is the bun the worst crime?

[Shane]

No, no. The loss of the two boys.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly. But that bun is a crime. We can say that it is a crime.

[Shane]

Just jealous.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm jealous of her bun?

[Shane]

Yeah. Of her hair team.

[Emily Simpson]

Of her hair. Of her glam team. That's going to be my next confessional look.

[Shane]

Wouldn't be the worst one.

[Emily Simpson]

That's it would be better than one. Well, there was one bad one last year.

[Shane]

If anyone can pull a bun off like that, it's you, babe.

[Emily Simpson]

All right, thank you. All right, thanks for listening.

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[Shane]

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[Emily Simpson]

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[Ad Host]

This episode is brought to you by Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Hosted by Katie Milkman, behavioral scientist and author of the best selling book how to Change, Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind our decisions. Each episode shares the latest research in behavioral science and dives into themes like the power of self control, shaping your mindset for success, navigating new beginnings, and why starting over can feel so hard. Katie talks to authors, athletes, Nobel laureates, and everyday day people about why we make irrational choices and how we can make better ones to help avoid costly mistakes. Listen to Choiceology at schwab. Com podcast or wherever you listen.

[Emily Simpson]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.