Maduro to Judge: "I'm a Decent Man. I am Still The President of My Country"

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present

Episode: Maduro to Judge: "I'm a Decent Man. I am Still The President of My Country"
Date: January 5, 2026
Hosts: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes
Publisher: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes cover the dramatic first U.S. court appearance of former Venezuelan president Nicolás Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores. Fresh from the breaking news, they recap the events leading up to Maduro’s arrest, the surreal courthouse scene, and the legal and political complexities now unfolding. The episode dives into courtroom details, the legal strategy, public reaction from both supporters and detractors, and what this unprecedented case could mean for international law and U.S.-Venezuela relations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Maduro’s Arrest and Court Appearance

• Maduro and his wife were brought from Brooklyn’s Metropolitan Detention Center to a federal courthouse in Lower Manhattan for their arraignment.
  • Helicopter and armored vehicle were used for transit (03:31).
  • The courtroom was the same as a recent high-profile trial (Diddy’s case), amplifying the surreal atmosphere (02:20, 02:39).
  • The schedule was accelerated: "This is just wrapping up as we are coming on here as of this recording… Maduro is still en route back to jail." (01:16 - T.J. Holmes)

2. Charges Against Maduro and Celia Flores

• Four major federal charges were announced (04:45 - Amy Robach):
  • Narco-terrorism conspiracy.
  • Cocaine importation conspiracy.
  • Possession of machine guns and destructive devices.
  • Conspiracy to possess machine guns and destructive devices.

3. The Courthouse & Street Scene

• Hundreds gathered outside — Venezuelan exiles, supporters, and detractors (03:31, 05:53).
  • Some thanked President Trump and sang the Venezuelan anthem.
  • Others called for Maduro and Celia Flores to be freed.
  • Amy noted, "More than 100 folks, gathered around and peacefully, but definitely letting their feelings be known." (05:53 - Amy Robach)

4. Courtroom Drama & Maduro’s Defiance

• Maduro and his wife entered not guilty pleas, but both went off-script:
  • Maduro declared (in Spanish, via interpreter):
    • “I am the President of Venezuela. I was captured at my home in Caracas, Venezuela…” (06:51 - Amy Robach)
    • On entering his plea: “I am not guilty. I am a decent man. I am still the president of my country.” (07:38 - T.J. Holmes)
  • Celia Flores: “Not guilty, I’m completely innocent.” (08:30 - Amy Robach)
• The delay in translation allowed them to speak more than is typical in a U.S. court before the judge could intervene (08:30).

5. Legal Representation

• Both retained prominent, private counsel:
  • Maduro: Barry Pollock (D.C.), known for his work with Julian Assange.
  • Celia Flores: Mark Donnelly (Texas).
  • Discussion on how the duo secured top lawyers so quickly; speculation that attorneys had been lined up for some time (11:01 - Amy Robach; 11:30 - T.J. Holmes).

6. The Fundamental Legal Question: Is He Even Supposed to Be Here?

• The central legal issue: Was his extradition or abduction lawful?
  • "Forget what the charges are. The key issue is going to be whether or not they should be here in the first place." (08:56 - T.J. Holmes)
  • U.S. courts typically avoid ruling on how a defendant was brought to the U.S., focusing solely on criminal charges (16:26 - T.J. Holmes).
  • The parallel to Manuel Noriega, Panama’s leader, is discussed (17:10 - T.J. Holmes).

7. Next Steps and Immediate Outcome

• No bail was sought; the defense did not have time to prepare an application (09:45 - Amy Robach).
• Next court date scheduled for March 17 (17:10 - T.J. Holmes).
• Both will remain in Brooklyn’s MDC, a notoriously difficult prison (17:43 - Amy Robach; 18:29 - T.J. Holmes).

8. Switzerland Freezes Maduro’s Assets

• Swiss authorities froze the assets of 37 Venezuelan officials, including Maduro, impacting their ability to fund their defense and future plans (19:32 - Amy Robach).

9. Memorable Courtroom Confrontation

• As court adjourned, an observer shouted at Maduro, “You’re going to pay for this.” Maduro responded in Spanish, interpreted as:
  • “In the name of God, I will be free.” (19:24 - T.J. Holmes; 19:32 - Amy Robach)

10. The Personality and Posture of Maduro

• Despite imprisonment, Maduro maintained a presidential bearing, politely wishing a "Happy New Year" to reporters and engaging with the proceedings (20:17 - T.J. Holmes; 20:42 - Amy Robach).
• Amy remarks on his demeanor: “He probably doesn't know how to be anything other than presidential and a grand leader…” (20:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• T.J. Holmes (on the courthouse scene):
  • “It was an atmosphere almost carnival-like at times… different tone, but still people were being loud and being heard.” (05:08)
• Maduro in court (via T.J. Holmes):
  • “I am not guilty. I am a decent man. I am still the president of my country.” (07:38)
• Amy Robach (on the significance):
  • “It was weird to be watching the same entrance that we were waiting to see Diddy and Diddy’s family walking out of… but in very different circumstances with much larger implications.” (02:39)
• On legal complexity (T.J. Holmes):
  • “Before, forget the charges. His lawyers are only focused on whether or not he was legally taken, if he should even be here.” (15:57)
• On Swiss asset freeze (Amy Robach):
  • “A total of 37 people have now had their assets frozen by the Swiss government. That’s very significant in terms of their ability to do anything, truly.” (19:32)
• On Maduro’s courtroom confrontation (T.J. Holmes):
  • “There was a guy apparently in the back… who yelled at him, ‘You’re going to pay for this.’ And [Maduro] responded… ‘In the name of God, I will be free,’ was the response.” (19:24)
• On presidential posture in custody (Amy Robach):
  • “He probably doesn’t know how to be anything other than presidential and a grand leader who should be maybe feared and respected. That’s, I’m sure, his mode of operation. So why change now?” (20:42)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:16 – Start of coverage; Maduro’s court appearance, transfer, and general context.
• 04:45 – Full reading of the charges against Maduro and Celia Flores.
• 05:53 – Description of the crowd outside the courthouse.
• 06:51 – 08:56 – Detailed retelling of Maduro’s defiant plea and courtroom performance.
• 09:45 – Legal representation for Maduro and Celia Flores; discussion of their U.S. lawyers.
• 15:24 – 16:43 – Legal debate over extradition, sovereignty, and judicial authority.
• 17:10 – Next court date (March 17); discussion of their likely custody situation.
• 19:22 – 19:32 – Courtroom confrontation and Maduro’s dramatic response.
• 19:32 – Impact of the Swiss government freezing assets.
• 20:42 – Insight into Maduro’s bearing and media interactions under arrest.

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Conclusions

Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes bring urgency and detail to this historic legal proceeding. With a frank, conversational tone, they unpack both the legal machinations and human drama surrounding Maduro’s first U.S. court appearance. Listeners come away with a thorough understanding of the legal charges, the courtroom dynamics, the international stakes, and why this case is anything but routine.

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For listeners:
This episode is essential for anyone following international law, political drama, or the evolving saga of Venezuelan leadership. Amy and T.J. balance minute-by-minute news with probing legal and political analysis, offering the engaged, curious audience a compelling recap with plenty of context for what’s coming next.

Transcript

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[T.J. Holmes]

Hey there, folks. It is Monday, January 5th, and that was a hell of a first court appearance from the now ousted former president of Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro and his wife. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and tj. This is just wrapping up as we are coming on here as of this recording. But as of this recording, Rose, we should mention that Maduro is still en route back to jail. So this is just happening. I don't know what we were expecting, but I wasn't expecting what. We got a few fireworks.

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It was.

[Amy Robach]

It was interesting. Interesting outside of the court, what was going on. It was interesting what was happening inside of the court and just how quickly it's all taken place. From the abduction this weekend that we were all shocked by to seeing him and his wife standing there before a federal judge in lower Manhattan. It's surreal.

[T.J. Holmes]

I keep messing this up. I asked you earlier. It was Friday night into Saturday that he was taking, or Saturday, Friday night.

[Amy Robach]

Friday night into Saturday into Saturday.

[T.J. Holmes]

So early Saturday morning, he went to bed Friday night in Caracas as the president of Venezuela, he is in our neighborhood today in prison garb, making court appearances in the same damn courthouse that Diddy's trial took place a matter of months ago. This is wild.

[Amy Robach]

It was weird to be watching the same entrance that we were waiting to see Diddy and Diddy's family walking out of the. And we've walked by that court a million times when that trial was going on, just to see it all now take place again, but in very different circumstances with much larger implications.

[T.J. Holmes]

Let's get you caught up here, folks. We were all talking about this earlier, but yes, it's been an extraordinary, certainly weekend, a few days, but also a few hours. Nicolas Maduro and his wife Cecilia were taken from the mdc, the Metropolitan Detention center in Brooklyn, the federal prison, and brought over to the federal courthouse in Lower Manhattan. This was all this morning. The court appearance was at noon Eastern time. But they started their journey and as New Yorkers, we kind of understand this. We were looking why are they leaving so early From Brooklyn at 7:00 in the morning for a noon appearance? And well, if you live in New York, maybe it makes sense.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, it's probably, what is it? A mile at most, probably between those two sites. But yes, there was a helicopter and then there was a armored vehicle. All to avoid perhaps. Yes, some of the traffic issues a la the Brooklyn Bridge, but also safety concerns. There were a lot of people who were waiting and had been lining up outside of the courthouse just to be a part of this. A lot of folks who are from Venezuela who traveled actually from parts of the US to be just near where this was all taking place. Some for, some against what the United States did. But a lot of passionate folks outside that courthouse waiting to see what happened inside.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, and this was, it did happen inside that same courthouse. It just give you a, a sense you're not living in this area. This, we are at the very tip of Manhattan, Lower Manhattan, the financial district. But you have, yes, a lot of, yes, you got Wall street and you got all those big companies and all and money down here, but you have the court system down here and there's just a little area down here again, tip of Manhattan, where this cluster of government buildings are. That is where he made his first court appearance with his wife. We did hear robes officially what the charges are. And he's facing four pretty serious charges here.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, the first and perhaps most serious, the narco terrorism conspiracy charge. Then there's a cocaine importation conspiracy charge, possession of machine guns and destructive devices, and then conspiracy, conspiracy to possess machine guns and destruct destructive devices. So those are the four charges that Maduro and his wife Celia are facing.

[T.J. Holmes]

And by all accounts, trial of trial, not there yet. Excuse me, sorry, misspoke. By all accounts, court did start, this hearing did start right on time. He walks in with his wife again, both wearing prison garb, if you will. Tan Pants, orange shoes. He was in, had a blue, some kind of shirt over another tan shirt. But he was in prison garb. His wife was as well. They were seated at the same table a couple of seats down from each other. And look, before they even got into the courtroom, you just mentioned robe, the scene outside, and it was almost reminiscent to some degree of what we saw during Diddy. People were out there and it was an atmosphere almost carnival, like at times, at least for that one today, maybe a different tone, but still people were being loud and being hurt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Amy Robach]

And there were two defiant sides. There was the one side that had signs that read things like, thank you, President Donald Trump, Venezuela freedom. People singing the Venezuelan national anthem, cheering that Maduro and his wife finally were apprehended. Then there was another large crowd that felt quite the opposite, supporting Maduro, saying, free President Maduro, Free President Maduro and his wife Celia. So, and the first lady. So these two factions, more than 100 folks, gathered around and peacefully, but definitely letting their feelings be known.

[T.J. Holmes]

And someone let their feelings be known in the courtroom as well. There was a bit of a clash between Maduro and I don't want to call it a protest or at least an observer in the courtroom. We will get into that. It was pretty much the last thing that happened at the end of the hearing today. But robes, he and his wife both did enter. Not guilty, please. But it wasn't that simple.

[Amy Robach]

It's funny, they, I obviously they don't know how and wouldn't have had the experience of knowing how the court system works here in this country. So it was interesting. You know, they're learning as they go. They have two very high powered lawyers by their sides, which we'll get into in a second. But the judge starts off just asking them the simple question to identify yourself. Normally a defendant would just give their name. No, that's not what happened in this case. Maduro said, I am the President of Venezuela. I was captured at my home in Caracas, Venezuela. He said this all in Spanish. And the first lady also made a point to say, I am the first lady of the Republic of Venezuela. But then when they were asked to give their pleas, they didn't just go with the not guilty, they added a few words.

[T.J. Holmes]

You know, he added, I saw this headline initially, but he said, I am not guilty. I am a decent man. I am still the president of my country. Now, for us in this country least robes. We have seen defendants get immediately lashed by a judge. No, all I need to hear is guilty or not guilty. You don't need to explain anything. I don't. This is going to be interesting because of Spanish, the judge. It's not. As far as I know, a native is not a Spanish speaker. The Maduro's have time to say a lot before the judge ever get to translate it in his ear. This is going to be a thing. He has time now and he might, in all these hearings, they might have time to make statements unless the judge clamps down on this. Well, this is why we got so many words. Because the judge couldn't cut them off.

[Amy Robach]

Right. Because by the time. Yeah, it takes a little bit of a delay for the judge to hear what they just said in Spanish for him to say, wait, you can't say that. Otherwise he would have prepared, probably interrupted them immediately because Celia Flores had the opportunity to say, not guilty, I'm completely innocent. So that usually is not allowed as well. So they were both able, at least given the translation time that it took to add a few extra things beyond not guilty.

[T.J. Holmes]

And they're told usually, don't say anything, shut up, don't say anything. But a lot of observers are now looking and say this is going to be the key issue. Forget what the charges are. The key issue is going to be whether or not they should be here in the first place. And they were legally plucked. So we're maybe possibly seeing them already with their wheels turning and why they make some of these statements. They were informed. They said they didn't know about a lot of their rights. Like you just said, Robes, they don't know the American court system. But they did get informed. They do have the right to a consular visit and they said they would like to do that. Fine. No bail at this time because they're not seeking it yet. So apparently all this just happening too fast. Like the. Even the lawyer was like, hey, we, we ain't got our ducks in a row. And the judge said, yeah, you can do that application later. But right now.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, I thought that was interesting that they didn't even have time to even sit down and have a conversation or at least a strategy in even asking for bail. Highly unlikely that that would have been granted. So maybe they just recognized that off the bat. But it's interesting.

[T.J. Holmes]

How do you do that, Robes? How do you give him Bailey? Where is he gonna go? He's not legally in this country.

[Amy Robach]

Maybe the only thing I could think of is if he had to stay at. Is there a Venezuelan Embassy here in New York or in D.C. obviously there would be, I think. Do we have that kind of rapport with that country. I don't even know what our. Yeah, I wouldn't think that we have envoys or embassies in each other's countries because that's how adversarial we are. I thought it was interesting too, because the judge let Maduro and his wife know that they are allowed if they can't afford. They do have access to an attorney paid for by the American people. They chose to retain their very high powered, privately secured attorneys that they were able to. I was just fascinated they were able to secure attorneys. I wonder what that process is like when you are the president, or at least the ousted president of Venezuela. How do you then go about trying to find an American attorney?

[T.J. Holmes]

I bet they had him in place.

[Amy Robach]

Maybe they were anticipating.

[T.J. Holmes]

Maybe for years even.

[Amy Robach]

Maybe.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes, you're right in touch with and had all kinds of issues. And this, you remember that with Diddy, he'd been working with a lawyer for a year, like Agnafilo. Oh, who is this guy? He's got a. No, they've been working together even before the arrest, so I would guess that's the case. Mark Donnelly and Barry Pollock. I didn't know the two names. Mark Donnelly is out of Texas. Barry Pollock out of dc. He's the one that's going to represent the First Lady. But Mark Donnelly, when I saw he represented Julian Assange, I thought it was.

[Amy Robach]

Barry Pollock who represented Julian Assange.

[T.J. Holmes]

Barry Pollock, the D.C. guy? I got him in out of order of my two people. Yes. Pollock was the D.C. guy who's representing President Maduro.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Correct.

[T.J. Holmes]

Donnelly is doing the other. And Pollock, when you hear that he represented Julian Assange, you know, complicated an international legal case that was.

[Amy Robach]

I still don't even really know what happened there.

[T.J. Holmes]

Can't keep up. I know Julian Assange ain't in jail.

[Amy Robach]

Exactly. He did. He is the man who at some point was responsible for having him get his freedom back. And so, yes, I can understand perhaps why Nicholas Maduro would want someone like that who has that sort of experience from an international complex case. This is the guy who has walked that walk before. So that's a very solid choice for Maduro to have Barry Pollock. Mark Donnelly don't know a lot about him. Just that he's a lawyer from Houston, from the Texas area.

[T.J. Holmes]

But.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. Don't know much more, but I'm sure we'll find out. I'm sure there's good reason why Celia Flores chose him as her attorney.

[T.J. Holmes]

All right, well, folks, stay here. When we come back A move was made elsewhere in Switzerland, of all places, that could have an impact on Madero and his future. Also, we got word about when the next court date will be. Stay here.

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[T.J. Holmes]

All right, folks, we continue here on Amy and tj. Just a short time ago, former president. I haven't even gotten this right or not. Is he the former president? Is he the ousted president? Does he have any presidential rights of any kind at this point?

[Amy Robach]

Who gets to say, I mean, he says in court that he is still the president. I think maybe the best way to put it that I've seen written is ousted president, because he has been ousted, and we know that the vice president is now called the acting president. So I don't know that there is a correct term. And it might depend on who you ask.

[T.J. Holmes]

That's the thing. What if I asked the people of Venezuela, right? What are their laws? What is their sovereignty? This is a fascinating legal case, and this is what it's going to boil down to. Before forget the charges. His lawyers are only focused on whether or not he was legally taken, if he should even be here.

[Amy Robach]

Well, yeah, that's the first hurdle, because if they can prove that he shouldn't legally be detained by the United States, that there we have no right as a country to hold him, then the charges are moot. Who cares?

[T.J. Holmes]

But then the flip side of that is that our justice system is only looking at the criminal charges. Like, this ain't my problem to decide whether or not he's legally here. And all this. You got somebody before me charged with a crime. I am dealing with the criminal aspect. What do you do? Who decides?

[Amy Robach]

Because normally internationally, if you're getting a fugitive to face charges here in the United States, it's only through an extradition policy that that country has with our country.

[T.J. Holmes]

There's an agreement made.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, and there's an agreement, and that's how we proceed. Clearly, that's not the case in this situation. So I don't know. And frankly, probably some of the greatest legal minds would argue whether or not we have a right to do this or not. We have a right whether or not we can prosecute him here in this country.

[T.J. Holmes]

That's the argument. And everybody, everybody wants to go with the Noriega out of Panama example. The same legal question came up, and the court said, that's not my problem. How he got here he's here, He's a criminal. These are the charges. Are they going to look at Madero the same? I am. This is going to be fascinating, but March 17th is his next scheduled court date. Now, another one could come. If they do ask for bail, if they want to get him out, I guess something could change. But, sweetheart, we're talking two months away. He's going to sit in Brooklyn.

[Amy Robach]

That's what I was just thinking. I'm imagining Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores, who are very proud people. You could tell just from the few moments we got to hear from them in court, who are used to a certain way of living, a certain way of being. He even asked the judge for respect at one point about being able to keep his notes. And the judge seemed a little taken aback by his tone, even that. But he has obviously a presidential way about him in certain level of expectations. Can you imagine the two of them with the way they have lived their lives and how they have been treated and how they are regarded, sitting in that notorious. Yeah, notoriously difficult, disgusting, dangerous prison in Brooklyn? That seems insane.

[T.J. Holmes]

I. I don't know. They. I mean, we. High profile is one thing. Mangioni was over there, Ghislaine Maxwell was over there. El Chapo was over there. Like you, notorious as hell, but still, this is a different dude. This is a. This is the president of the sitting president. Now, other places, the United States don't recognize him as the legitimate leader. Does that matter if we decide, no, I'm not going to accept you as the president. I am. I'm asking so many legal questions we don't have the answer to right now. The other thing, in court, as he was leaving this confrontation, and again, it was. There was a lot of Spanish and I'm seeing different places and different interpretations, but there was a guy apparently in the back of the courtroom who stood up at one time, at the end as Maduro was leaving, and yelled at him, you're going to pay for this. And Madero responded to him with something in Espanol.

[Amy Robach]

In Spanish, in espanol.

[T.J. Holmes]

And it's being interpreted, saying, in the name of God, I will be free, was the response. At least that's one interpretation of how it went down.

[Amy Robach]

Wow. But will he have the money to be able to pay these high powered lawyers? Because we got word today as well that the Swiss government has frozen any assets that Nicolas Maduro and any of the people close to him held in Switzerland in those famous offshore accounts. A total of 37 people have now had Their assets frozen by the Swiss government. That's very significant in terms of their ability to do anything, truly. Obviously, they need to fund their defense. They need to fund perhaps just planning how they're getting out and what will happen next. So if you don't have money, if you don't have access to your funds, that is severely limiting.

[T.J. Holmes]

You know what? Anything we learned about dictators, they usually keep a stash somewhere, don't they? You seeing this note here about him saying Happy New Year to the reporters in the courtroom? What in the world? By all accounts, he sounds crazy, acted presidential like, but all he carried himself in such a way, even respectful of the proceedings, to a certain degree, he was almost like a politician.

[Amy Robach]

Well, yes, he knows, obviously, at this point, I would think he is aware of how polarizing President Trump is. And perhaps he knows, hey, he most likely being the politician that he is, knows how to turn on the charm when he needs to. He knows how to lead and perhaps even how to manipulate or at least how to carry himself. And he probably doesn't know how to be anything other than presidential and a grand leader who should be maybe feared and respected. That's, I'm sure, his mode of operation. So why change now? Even if he's in prison clothing and handcuffed and shackled, he's still acting like the president of Venezuela.

[T.J. Holmes]

And the president of Venezuela is in a motorcade going from Manhattan to Brooklyn to the same prison that held Sean Diddy Combs only a few short months ago. This has been an extraordinary morning here in New York and it is going to be extraordinary. Few weeks, few months, and who knows, this could be years in the making to watch. But the former president of Venezuela made his first court appearance today, pled not guilty to a number of charges related to his alleged narco terrorism regime. And with that, folks, we always appreciate you spending some time with us. For now, I'm T.J. holmes. On behalf of my dear Amy Robach, we'll talk to you all soon.

[Dr. Priyanka Walley]

Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley.

[Hari Kondabolu]

And I'm Hari Kundabolu.

[Dr. Priyanka Walley]

It's a new year and on the podcast Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health, which means.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? Health Stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone.

[Dr. Priyanka Walley]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Back in 2016, we said, let's do a podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Little did we know it would last 10 years. I mean, but here's the thing. Stay out of the forest. You're in a cult. Call your dad. This is terrible. You guys stay sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[T.J. Holmes]

A cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

My favorite Murder turns 10 this month. Join us for new episodes every Thursday on the Exactly Right network.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[T.J. Holmes]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.