Mia Changes Everything!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Episode: Mia Changes Everything!
Release Date: May 31, 2025
Hosts: Amy Robach, T.J. Holmes
Guest: Aubrey O’Day

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of the Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present podcast, Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes to delve deep into the intricacies of the high-profile Diddy trial. Aubrey, a former television personality and Danity Kane alum, brings a unique insider perspective, intertwining her personal experiences with her comprehensive analysis of the ongoing legal battle.

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Mia’s Bombshell Testimony

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Mia’s pivotal testimony, which Aubrey describes as a "bombshell for the prosecution." Mia, a key witness, has provided crucial insights that reinforce the prosecution's case against Diddy.

Aubrey O’Day [00:50]: "I really want to get into Mia bombshell this week. Bombshell for the prosecution."

Aubrey critiques the cross-examination of Mia by Brian Steele, labeling it as one of the trial's weakest moments. She highlights how Steele's approach veered into victim-blaming territory, which undermined Mia’s credibility and the overall prosecution narrative.

Aubrey O’Day [02:33]: "If that's all you have, then you don't have much."

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Understanding RICO and Its Implications

The hosts and Aubrey extensively discuss the application of the RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) Act in the trial. They explore how the prosecution is utilizing RICO to establish a criminal enterprise orchestrated by Diddy.

Amy Robach [02:54]: "But I am super impressed with how she really has been able to be the glue that has connected a lot of these pieces together."

Aubrey elaborates on the breadth of RICO, explaining its adaptability from traditional mob cases to more contemporary scenarios involving smaller corporations and high-profile individuals.

Aubrey O’Day [14:00]: "RICO was created for the mob families... but in the past couple of years, it’s been stretched and utilized in other cases."

They assert that the evidence presented so far supports the RICO charges, emphasizing the pattern of criminal activity tied directly to Diddy and his enterprise.

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Systematic Abuse and Exploitation

Aubrey shares her personal experiences with systemic abuse and the pervasive control exerted by Diddy, drawing parallels to the allegations presented in the trial. She underscores the extent of influence Diddy wielded over his employees, leading to wrongful terminations and blacklisting.

Aubrey O’Day [04:33]: "I have seen what happens when you don't do what he wants and you get fired and you get blacklisted."

She highlights the manipulative tactics used to maintain control, reflecting on how these actions contributed to a culture of fear and exploitation within the organization.

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Jury Selection and Trial Dynamics

The conversation shifts to the critical role of jury selection in the trial's outcome. Both Aubrey and Amy express concerns about the potential biases and the jury's understanding of the complex legal arguments presented.

Aubrey O’Day [25:36]: "The most important part of this entire trial was jury selection. Period."

They discuss the challenges the prosecution faces in convincing the jury of the established criminal enterprise, especially with the multifaceted nature of the allegations spanning racketeering, sex trafficking, and coercion.

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Impact of Media and Public Perception

Aubrey reflects on the influence of media portrayal and public perception on the trial, emphasizing how narratives can shape the jury's opinions and the overall discourse surrounding the case.

Amy Robach [25:48]: "At the end of the day, it comes down to theatrics a lot."

She draws parallels to past high-profile cases, such as O.J. Simpson's trial, to illustrate how media strategies can significantly impact legal proceedings.

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Personal Reflections and Emotional Toll

Towards the conclusion, Aubrey opens up about the personal toll the trial has taken on her, revealing the emotional and psychological challenges she faces while navigating her role as a key witness and public figure in the case.

Aubrey O’Day [47:56]: "I've been on Broadway, to Playboy, to having my own television show... I've literally done all of it really well and have platinum albums."

She discusses the dichotomy between her public persona and her private struggles, highlighting the enduring effects of her experiences under Diddy's management.

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Final Thoughts and Future Outlook

As the trial progresses, both Aubrey and Amy express optimism about the prosecution's case while acknowledging the uncertainties that remain. They anticipate that Mia’s testimony will continue to be a linchpin in securing a conviction against Diddy.

Aubrey O’Day [31:09]: "I don't see a path for that. You're the one with the degree. Do you see any lane for that?"

Amy concurs, noting the strength of the evidence presented thus far and the coherent narrative the prosecution is crafting to convince the jury.

Amy Robach [37:38]: "It's cruelty. It's about power, it's about coercion. It's about, it's. It's evil, it's cruel. And I think, I don't think the jury can get past that."

The episode concludes with a sense of anticipation for the forthcoming testimonies and their potential impact on the trial's outcome.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a profound exploration of the Diddy trial through the lens of Aubrey O’Day's personal experiences and legal insights provided by Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes. The detailed analysis of Mia’s testimony, the application of RICO, and the examination of systemic abuse paint a comprehensive picture of the complexities surrounding the case. Listeners gain valuable perspectives on the interplay between legal strategies, personal narratives, and media influence, making this episode a must-listen for those following the trial.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Aubrey O’Day [00:50]: "Bombshell for the prosecution."

• Aubrey O’Day [02:33]: "If that's all you have, then you don't have much."

• Aubrey O’Day [14:00]: "RICO was created for the mob families... but in the past couple of years, it’s been stretched and utilized in other cases."

• Aubrey O’Day [25:36]: "The most important part of this entire trial was jury selection. Period."

• Amy Robach [37:38]: "It's cruelty. It's about power, it's about coercion. It's about, it's. It's evil, it's cruel. And I think, I don't think the jury can get past that."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and emotional undertones of the podcast episode, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners who seek to understand the complexities of the Diddy trial through Aubrey O’Day's unique perspective.

Transcript

[Amy]

This is an I heart podcast. Amy and TJ presents Aubrey o' Day.

[TJ]

Covering the Diddy trial.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Hey, guys, it's Aubrey o' Day. Welcome back to the coverage of the Diddy trial brought to you by TJ and Amy. I am so excited. I know I always am excited about my guests, but I have a very, very established attorney who has got her own show with her husband on iHeartRadio called legally Burnett. Emily, I have as one single non lawyer, but think she is to one very housewife up attorney who is legit. I am so happy to finally be talking this case with you. I really want to get into Mia bombshell this week. Bombshell for the prosecution.

[Amy]

You know, I'm excited to talk to you too, because obviously my husband and I have been covering the trial. We do a lot of legal analysis. You know, we break it down. We talked about testimony. You know, we talk about Rico and what he's actually being charged with and whether the prosecution is meeting those burdens. But I will tell you, it's very interesting for me as a lawyer to talk to you because it's not very often that I actually get the opportunity to talk to someone who has personal experience with a legal issue that we're, that we're discussing and that we're analyzing. So this is a win, win for both of us. So it's exciting.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I agree. I can't wait. You could teach me how to catch a husband after you teach me the law.

[Amy]

All right, well, we'll work on that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay. So with Mia, I just want to first estab two days of testimony. She still is going to be in cross on Monday. We ended today with Brian Steele cross examining her. For those that don't know, Brian Steele is in most cases, probably one of the best, most effective lawyers on Diddy's side. And probably this was one of the worst crosses in the entire trial for me personally. It ventured over into victim blaming, which, um, at this point, I think Don the therapist established for the, for the most part, everybody's kind of established. People that are victims do go back to their abusers. They do have shame in their stories. They do go back to things that are familiar in order to just forget and, and not. And pretend like it didn't happen in order to find normalcy. Again, this contact back with abusers, this, you know, wanting to work back with them or communicate with them, it's a nothing burger for me at this point. If that's all you have, then you don't have much.

[Amy]

Well, I would agree with that. And I would say that's basically what the defense has and that's what they're going to focus on, on every single forward. It's always going to be, why did you stay? Why were you there so long? Why did you engage? Why did you come back? Why did you keep showing up for work? And I thought it was really important that the prosecution did put dawn on who I. I can't remember. Is she psychiatrists.

[Aubrey O'Day]

She's a clinic. Forensic psychology.

[Amy]

Right. And. And we know she also testified in the Amber. But I thought it was really important that they brought her forward. And I'm sure you probably agree with that, because that's the question that the jury has, is why did people continue to go back? Why did they stay? Why did they show up for work the next day? Why did these. And spend years. And so it was important for her to come on. But you're. You have your own personal experience in that realm as well.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. And. And for me personally, you know, I was fired on national television after years and years of leading up this band for being raunchy and promiscuous and bad for business, which none was true. I wish at the time we were in a. An era where things like me too, and a lot of movements now that have occurred where you can go against corporations and you can sue people for wrongful termination. And it is something that feels more available to us back then, even with parents as lawyers and very established lawyers surrounding me. No one gave me that idea. And now, of course, I'm past the statute of limitations. But I have seen what happens when you don't do what he wants and you get fired and you get blacklisted. And I experienced blacklisting. And I know what that looks like. It's very real, the threat that everyone is saying about not wanting to be. Well, I got to the other side of it and it's real. It's actually a real thing. And it does happen. And it's humiliating and shameful and half of it I put out of my head, and half of it I'll wake up out of my sleep sometimes and cringe that I was in that position and I didn't understand even that it was all designed just to humiliate me a step further.

[Amy]

Right. Wait, can I. Can I ask a question? Because I think this is ironic. When I was listening to you talk, weren't you poised as the sexy one? Wasn't that. Weren't they. Wasn't the intent was to establish you as like the pretty. The sexy one and then you end up getting fired for being like the sexy one. Was that. Do I read that?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. And also, how funny is it I get end up being fired for being raunchy and promiscuous and that's bad for business? If it's bad for business, well, then Diddy must be really bad for business because we all know that he likes a little raunchy and promiscuous at this spot point.

[Amy]

Well, it seemed to work well for his business, actually, because the man has done it for years and years and years and years and years and is a billionaire.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And that part right there for me is where I'm at with this. I'm. I'm very. I feel very strong after Mia's testimony about what has been proven and let. We'll get into that as we continue. But beyond that, I'm really interested in systematic changes. You know, I talked about Capricorn's testimony. I would have liked it to go a little bit further into details of who made payments to her. Her and. And let's establish a few more people because there the trail is. You got to remember that this man was still he. In order to stay at the levels and operate at the levels of destruction that he was operating at for so long, you have to have your pockets continuing to be fed. You have to have the whole establishment basically behind you. Now, how much people's knowledge of things were is always something that I assess. But, you know, my firsthand knowledge of when I was around, there were people that saw plenty of things and plenty of things could have been stopped by very big people. And they continued on, it continued on. They fired me and I even had to go back to Reunion and get beat up some more under those same terminology statements, everyone knowing damn well that those things aren't true. I had to play the character of that. And they just allowed me to get lashing after lashing. They created a narrative that I could never get up under and in fact had to play into for most of my career. I am definitely not sexy or pretty in my head. I've learned how to be according to society standards because unfortunately, that's the lane that I was left with. And that was the only opportunity I had when I left. Everybody pretended like there were opportunities in music in there, but really all of those turned out to be rooms that were built to humiliate and make me walk away in very big, deep amounts of shame and feeling like I wasn't good enough and like a loser not understanding that all of them were orchestrated and controlled and and then the only person that came to me with a real big opportunity was Hugh Hefner to do the COVID of Playboy. And then that's how you end up going down a lane that doesn't necessarily feel like you. But there's a lot of limitations in my contracts. My mom's a good lawyer, so I didn't have to show anything I didn't want to show. And, you know, you inch over into the pictures that are painted for you. I'm sure even as a reality TV person, you've had painted pictures of you created either by your cast members or by editing or producers. They're all involved. And you've had to find ways to sometimes lean in and sometimes absolutely establish. No.

[Amy]

Yeah. Well, I would also say when you were going through that, that was a different time period. And I think that it was now because of all these women that have come forward like Cassie, and there's been women before her, and with the MeToo movement, I think women are more empowered now to stand up for themselves. And to say, I'm not comfortable doing that, that's not right. The problem is, is that this was early 2000s for you. Right? And I don't think that you had anyone advocating on your behalf. And when we talk about Diddy and we talk about this trial and we talk about the prosecution, you're absolutely right when you say that this was a whole network of people that knew what was going on. And clearly there were deep pockets, there were people being paid, there were people turning away.

[Aubrey O'Day]

What I loved getting back to the testimony with Mia is she is the first witness to establish a different pattern of behavior in regards to sexual abuse. This isn't a girlfriend. This isn't somebody that. That wanted to be girlfriend. This is somebody that was an employee. This was somebody that was raped in ways where she's in a closet packing his suitcase and he's got his dick out and forcing it in her mouth. Allegedly. This isn't the standard freak off, staged event that's going on. And we're now venturing into other territories of other abusive types of behavior. The force is still there like in every other case. The coercion is still there. Um, basically, he. Everything he did from making her live into in his home, the not eating, not not being able, working ridiculous amount of days, four or five days straight, all of that was very standard. We went through that too. I mean, to me, I just felt like this is what it is when you are working at this powerful of a level. It wasn't until I Worked at that powerful of a level with that even more powerful. Essentially. Sometimes people that I realized, oh, these motherfuckers take a lot of breaks. Y' all are a little bit lazy. In all honesty, President, sir, you're a bit lazy on Apprentice. I mean, the work ethic was way different over this side.

[Amy]

Right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I learned that actually people do get water and bathroom breaks and food at lunch, et cetera. That was just not something that, that, that we were used to. But as far as Mia goes, she's a critical witness because unlike the other two government victims, this is just not a former romantic partner. This is an employee. She was sexually abused. Allegedly they're victim blaming her on the cross and it's not really working for me. It absolutely doesn't work. You know, you always have to wonder if there's that one person in the jury that just doesn't understand. But then again, you never know. They always surprise you. Is kind of what every attorney has always told me along the way. Mia, in regards to rico, I feel she's established that in a big way.

[Amy]

So you. Because I, I've, I've worried. My worry in this case is establishing rico. So I was feeling up until this point where you're, you're saying when Mia comes in. And again, I, I don't know if we established this already, but Mia is a pseudonym. So that is not her real name.

[Aubrey O'Day]

No, that's not a real name.

[Amy]

I was wondering if you know who she is. Yes, I do.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yes.

[Amy]

So you know her personally and you've met her before or had interactions with her before?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yes.

[Amy]

And my. What do you think? I want to know your opinion on this. What is. Do you think is her reasoning for using a pseudonym? Because clearly she's sitting in court across from him.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He.

[Amy]

He knows who. I assume it's just to keep her name out of the press. However, at some point it's going to be released and it's, it's going to get out there. There's no way you can keep that secret for a long period of time. So to me, it's just.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Let me say this, you'd be really surprised. I did a search to see how easy it was to figure out who she was based off of just her testimony alone in regards to her work profile.

[Amy]

Right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It's wiped.

[Amy]

Oh, wow. Really?

[Aubrey O'Day]

It is wiped. It's not on the revolt site. It's completely wiped off of all of that. It's. I have people, news friends that work for very big news sources that all are still don't know who she is. They could describe her to me because they're in court seeing her. I already know who she is, but I would never tell anyone who she is. But I am super impressed with how she really has been able to be the glue that has connected a lot of these pieces together because she provides a different. A different experience within the same. Being able to validate Cassie's experiences, being able to validate a lot of people's experiences. Also, though, being able to widen the gap of what an employee witnessed and had to go through in that she was carrying drugs, she was around criminal behavior constantly. She was assaulted. There was force, there was coercion, coercion. And there was criminal behavior going on allegedly the entire time. And I didn't see Brian Steele doing his. His magic at all. And if anyone could be magical in this moment, it would be him. He's very good at what he does.

[Amy]

Right. And you have to remember, just everyone out there listening, the. The prosecution has to prove rico, which means that they have to prove that Diddy worked as a criminal enterprise and that he was at the top and that all of his employees were working together for a unified benefit of this criminal enterprise. And so far, when Cassie testifying and you have some personal assistants testifying, it was like, I don't know, are we establishing a criminal enterprise?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Question. What. Can you. Can you explain to me what criminal enterprise legally means? Can it be. Because what I. What I understand about RICO was created for the mob families. Take that those situations down. But in the past couple of years, from what I understand that it's really been stretched and utilized in other cases in different ways. And you've been able to establish smaller corporations run by one big lead and, and less people. They've been able to utilize, win in cases that don't look as aggressive as a mob case would. And so I really want you to explain to the audience how small it could actually be and still have this successful RICO charge like Exum And. And R. Kelly. You can talk about those two. R. Kelly was. That's one person at the top that was benefiting from a lot of things that had a lot of people around him doing criminal things, moving people, and he got charged. So tell me how low the bar can be and still get a conviction in regards to people.

[Amy]

Well, you know, it's actually, it defines. Rico, defines an enterprise, a criminal enterprise. It's actually defined very broadly, which is good, because we don't want to have a very narrow scope on it. And it's really just a business or a group of people that are based in criminal activity. And really it's, you have to have two criminal acts within a ten year time period. So I feel like they were checking. Right, right, exactly. And it's for one common, just, you know, one common unified goal, which is Diddy at the top and whatever it is that he wants.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And also the one, one common, one common thread too is who was paying everybody and that is Bad Boy. Cassie was doing, she said her full time job became being a girl in the freak offs doing sex work. But she was paid under Bad Boy with the same payment that an artist waiting for 10 albums to come out would be being paid. But she wasn't making alb, she was doing sex work and that was expected of her. Those payments were coming from Bad Boy. Mia's payments were coming from Bad Boy. Capricorn's payments were coming from Bad Boy. Allegedly all of the abuse was under Diddy and Bad Boy was his corporation.

[Amy]

Right. And of course they had Kid Cudi.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Testify to the arson kidnapping with Capricorn.

[Amy]

Exactly. Because there you have, you're establishing not only is there the sex acts and the, the sex trafficking, but then you have the burglary, have the arson, so you're establishing obviously more than two criminal acts within a ten year time period. So, you know, do, do you feel.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That it's been the, that the burden has been met just right now, today?

[Amy]

I don't know. I mean, I think so. It really depends on how savvy the jury is. And I really feel like there's going to. First of all, we're only in week three of testimony, so obviously there's going to be more people that testify. And then it really comes down to prosecution when they do their closing arguments to actually tie it all together for the jury so that they understand how all these people were involved, how they were paid and how they were all unified in this criminal enterprise for his benefit. And I think that they'll be able to do that once we have more witnesses.

[Aubrey O'Day]

What, what kind of witnesses are you, you personally still wanting to see? Because I have to take the jury and the possibility that somebody just doesn't get it on the jury out of my head because there's so many people that don't get it anymore in our society. I'm scared to death about if we put all of that aside and you, who is credible and understands this and understands the testimony and is well versed, what more do you need to see?

[Amy]

You know, I would like more, I would, I would like security to come forward, bodyguard, bodyguards, and say I protected him. This is what I saw. I took these payments. I just. Something just a little bit more. I mean, in my mind, rico's established. I'm just saying on a jury. Have they established it yet? I don't know, but we still have weeks of testimony. And obviously I'm also. It surprises me that you weren't summoned.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You know, I think because. So there's a part. There is a piece of my story. There's pieces of my story that I can't speak about because I have an exclusivity in a different situation. And that was done prior to even understanding that any of this type of justice was going to be something that was available and real in my lifetime. So a lot of us went in a direction to hope to seek justice with somebody that felt like they were going to get to the bottom of it. Now that we're getting to the bottom of it in front of the world, I've been allowed to do this, you know, but without sharing my full story. So it's hard to get into that part. But I will say you'd have to remember if something were to have happened to you, you'd have to remember it in order to sit on the stand and discuss it. Right. So that would be a reason someone would be summoned. If somebody witnessed something and you didn't remember it or you had no recollection of it, then you wouldn't necessarily be a valuable witness. As far as, like, the beatings and things like that, A lot of the stuff that is being spoken about and a lot of the really bad stuff was happening during a dirty money era of the run, and that was after I was already fired.

[Amy]

So you're saying a little pre. Maybe a little. Your experience was before it really started to take off into some of the, like.

[Aubrey O'Day]

In my opinion, allegedly it was taken off in the 90s. But. But in regards to, you know, these are very specific criminal charges, and you'd have to really be able to bolster very specific criminal situations. And I have never been a willing participant in anything criminal.

[Amy]

Okay, let me ask you a question. Did you. Were you aware of these alleged. I guess they're not alleged because they're on tape and we've seen them, but these freak offs, when you had your experience, was that something that you had heard of, that you saw, that you witnessed, that you knew about?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't think I can get into that territory, but I believe a lot of people that got close enough to that enterprise understood the sexual behavior that was occurring around them. It was very, it's like they say that prison is, is more gossipy than West Hollywood during like the weekends. The gays out for brunch during the weekends in West Hollywood. Bad Boy was a gossip mill of. And everybody loved to share their videos and their times and their experiences and their knowledge of things from all sides of it. And so, I mean you could see right when this came down how many bodyguards came forward and we're just openly discussing the butt plug size they would buy for him. The dildo, this, the this that. I mean it was like Jesus, like within two days you had every bodyguard talking like low level silly gossip stuff that like he's not on trial for his sexuality. I didn't take, I didn't love. That's why I'm nervous about the bodyguard situation because there were so many that have come forward that have been in the documentaries and that are also problematic themselves. They would have to have been given immunity. I definitely spoke to one that was willing to take immunity. You know, I don't know. You don't know what happens beyond your personal interaction with Homeland Security. They don't give you information. If they find something out, they do not tell you, they don't share information. There's nothing that is, you're not having. Like they're very kind and, and, and compassionate and good people that are, you know, good actors of the law, but they don't, they don't shed light on your experience for you.

[Amy]

I know that there, there is a lot of talk about whether they're going to show the breakoff videos during the trial. Now the question is, does that help execution or does that hurt the prosecution? I guess it really depends upon how much they show what they show. But if they show it in a way where people are like, okay, that's crazy. But it's just a bunch of adults that consented to this. I've heard that Diddy actually on these videos, I don't know if this is true. This is alleged. This is what I've heard that he want, that he actually makes a disclaimer in the beginning. But before any of these freak offs start and say if there's anyone that doesn't want to be here, you can leave. So I don't know if that's true. I, that's just allegedly. Do you know anything about that?

[Aubrey O'Day]

He clearly was very aware that what he was doing was criminal in my opinion because he was having Cassie set it all up. Like if you wanted to pick which guy's dicks and which guy's colors and which guy sizes you liked. Instead of giving her a fucking eight page recital, why don't you just go on the site and pick them out and make a phone call? He. He having her go get the photos, show him the pictures, show him the people, get the information, go over, give her the money. She goes and pays. Don't look at him. Just do what I say. But it's like everything was, it's like he was always passing off the control to other people. Shit. Mia was carrying around his drug purse, allegedly, with all of his colorful pills in it.

[Amy]

Right?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Like it's, it's, it's like every. He had to have some knowledge that what was going on. In my opinion, allegedly that was going on was, was criminal. Was criminal. Or he would have been a little bit more hands on, right. And a little less like establishing. I don't know how much time in the, in the man that I knew and understood him to be, he was on the go. He's moving. It's. It almost is giving a bipolar jump in personalities and moods and shifts and everything. It just stand up and go. I don't know if that's drug fueled, if it's a mental health condition. I don't know. Allegedly, whatever it is, it was very shifty. But that being said, you'd think that like, if someone's that shifty and that on the move, that they would just make calls themselves on certain things. But he was very careful to not do that. He was careful with Cudi to be out of the house by the time Cudi gets back. He's careful at Soho House to tell him. What do you mean?

[Amy]

Right. He's also careful that he has someone under his direction actually put the, the cocktail in the car and commit the arson. It's not him. He's not the one cutting the convertible open. But you know, I. Same thing.

[Aubrey O'Day]

They might have flipped the man who did. Allegedly. And you can go down a nice dark, dirty YouTube hole if you'd like to. One night I'll come over for drinks like little housewives moment. Except yeah, you want to, but. But you could go down a nice little YouTube tunnel of understanding. Back in the day, people that came forward and said that they were prostitutes for Cassie and Puff and they named people that he'd talk to on phone calls in front of him. Allegedly. And when a time where people are very charged, just optics wise, I thought certain things would be different. And he was saying to me, I was like, has it changed? Do lawyers not care about like justice anymore? Is it really just about the money grabs? And he's like, you know, it's, it's both. Some lawyers really want to make money and some lawyers really are after that pursuit. You can get disenfranchised enough in a career as an attorney when you're after the pursuit to stop caring about the pursuit and want to fucking, you know, he's like, some money. Yeah, he's like some, I was like, tell me specifically about AUSAs. And he was like, some AUSAs are, have got that I don't care what the payment is. I want to be, I want to be in the most prestigious position to fight for justice for people. And he's like, and some realize that after doing this job for a certain period of time, they're going to get a great corporate gig that pays a lot of fucking money when they settle out and want to go away from that job. I didn't understand it from that vantage point, but I was trying to get a read on because so much of this is going to be about the jury and the lawyers and so little of it is about the people on the stand. When it all. When I, I watched the Netflix special of OJ's trial and it was Johnny Cochran and all the lawyers basically just tattling on how they manipulated everything and everyone to get to the end. And they were so proud of their legal prowess and being around lawyers and saying that people can come in a room and be high fiving someone they know is a fucking criminal just because they did a better job at convincing everyone in the room that's like, I want to grab my pearls.

[Amy]

I don't like, I know, I agree with you. At the end of the day, it comes down to theatrics a lot. And a lot of people, a trial is nothing more than who is the more convincing attorney who plays the part better, who does the jury like better, who's more likable, who's more attractive.

[Aubrey O'Day]

The most important part of this entire trial was jury selection. Period. Absolutely, that was, that is the most important part of this trial. And imagine how much incredible testimony has been, has been put on the record during this time period, a very short time period, as you said. Yet the most important thing was jury selection. And they had some very strong people on the defense side choosing juries. And of course AUSAs are very good at what they do as well. So you just, you gotta hope. But I, I, you know, more male jury than female scares me a bit.

[Amy]

I agree with that. You know, let me ask you another question because there's been a lot of talk about this victim number three, who supposedly is named Gina that now they can't find to testify.

[Aubrey O'Day]

She's. She's. It's not that she can't be found. She's. She. She's tweeting.

[Amy]

Right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

From what I. From I understand. She. She sent out a tweet. Just saying. She doesn't. She wants to be private. Now you can go down a YouTube spiral again. You can find the interview that she gave on a radio show discussing him stomping a baby out of her pain, trying to pay her for an abortion that she willingly had because she didn't want to take his money because she loved him. She's more of a soft spoken, sweet girl. It doesn't seem like she had any career aspirations.

[Amy]

Was she a girlfriend or just someone that she wasn't. Someone that worked. Did she work for or was she a girlfriend?

[Aubrey O'Day]

No, no. Working for him. I don't know what to call his girlfriend or not because he just seems to have thrown that around loosely.

[Amy]

Right?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Loosely, Yeah. I don't even know that anyone was a girlfriend because I think in order to call someone your girlfriend, you have to care for them. And I don't know how much consideration was given to any of these people, allegedly. So I don't. I don't love that word. But no, she. She was not working for him. She was not a worker at Bad Boy. But they are going to establish medical records with a victim that is coming up. There was some talk in a sidebar that they had about some type of medical records, and it's being alluded to that there's likely going to be a conversation about abortion, that there is still a victim that is coming forward and speaking that we have not heard from yet.

[Amy]

I believe that's the. Is that the. Jane, that's. Is that who they're going. Jane. That's coming up.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Jane. But I think more so what ends up happening in a situation like that where somebody gets nervous at the, at the, at the final point because their name is about to be out there and they don't want that, so they want to then not come. I think a way to get. Because I think if you're subpoenaed and you don't show up, that's a. It's. It's. You go to jail for that, I believe. Is that correct?

[Amy]

Yeah. That's why the defense attorney.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think they didn't pursue it and I think they didn't make it a thing because I Think that though they probably did get in touch with the women. The women were prop. Allegedly. And the women were probably like, listen, I'm not going to help you out if I get up there.

[Amy]

Right. And then they, they don't want to take that risk. So it's better to just not.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You don't want to take a risk there. If you pay attention in the media. They said one of the victims dropped out. She never wanted to participate in any of it. She didn't want to talk to Homeland Security. She didn't want to be a part of the trial. Who leaked that? It certainly wasn't the prosecution. It certainly wasn't PR for the ausa, her publicists or her people leaked out that story that she wanted no parts because she probably wanted to signal whoever to let them know I wasn't going to tell on you, Daddy.

[Amy]

Right, exactly. So what else did you allegedly. What else did you take away from Mia's testimony that you thought was interesting or was compelling for you?

[Aubrey O'Day]

You let me. Oh, well, here's a. Here's a. Just a sidebar. It's becoming very obvious that he paid women way less than he paid men. George Kaplan was given six figures. Capricorn and Mia were both paid around, I think they said 40,000, 50,000. That was interesting. And they also were all harassed and abused.

[Amy]

I had a question to ask you because you have personal experience with them, and I thought this is random, but I found this interesting that I think on two different occasions it has come up in testimony that I think it was Gina. I. But I don't. It wasn't Gina testifying, but was someone testifying to an incident where apparently Diddy threw apples at Gina and then Mia was testifying, I believe yesterday that he threw spaghetti at her. And I just was like, it was the food items that I thought.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And there were a pan. Right.

[Amy]

And I was like, allegedly, allegedly. But what is that? Is that a form of humiliation or a lack of com. Any type of control at all that no matter what is on the surface of a countertop, that you will just reach for it and assault someone?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah, basically.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I, I don't. I, I, Maybe he just happened to, you know, eat more than he ever let us eat heat. But I don't know. Maybe there just was. Food was the most readily available thing around. Maybe it has to do with come downs or come ups and when you're hungry and when your moods get bad and when they. Who knows? Yeah, there's no, I don't think there's anything specific to the, the food being thrown. It just happened to have been what was there.

[Amy]

I just found that interesting that in this testimony, like food keeps coming up.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was like, well, we certainly didn't have anyone. We worked for him. So I'm glad somebody was being fed.

[Amy]

Somebody's. Somebody's getting spaghetti.

[Aubrey O'Day]

At this point, I don't see any possible way after this testimony that 12 people unanimous unanimously agree to acquit him. I, I don't see it happening at all. How do you feel? I don't even see a path for 12 people acquitting him on all charges. It's not even. I don't even see it at all. You're the one with the degree. Do you see any lane for that?

[Amy]

No, I don't. I think I, I think the testimony has been too compelling. I think the repetition of the repeated behav years. It's not like he got drunk one night and you know, he, he went all. He went off the rails, which can happen to people. I think it's a long established, repeated behavior over and over and over. And it goes down. I mean it boils down to the fact that he's a cruel man. He's. It's cruelty. It's about power, it's about coercion. It's about, it's. It's evil, it's cruel. And I think, I don't think the jury can get past the that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Can you give the definition legally in layman's terms, I suppose for the audience about what coercion is because half the people I talk to can't even say the word correctly. And I think people just are too embarrassed to ask. I don't really know what that means.

[Amy]

Oh my gosh.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't.

[Amy]

I don't know if I could give the.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I'd have to it my chat GPT loves me. It gets back to me.

[Amy]

I mean I'd have to actually google the legal definition of coercion is the.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Legal definition of coercion. Okay. The legal definition of coercion generally refers to the use of force, threats or intimidation to compel someone to act against their will. Key elements of coercion threat or use of force. They've proved it. Lack of con. Lack of consent. They've proved it. Intent. The perpetrator intends to control or manipulate the person the. The victim's decision making that's there. They've proved that resulting action the victim performs an act or refrains from want one that they otherwise wouldn't have done freely. They've proved all Key elements of coercion with multiple witnesses.

[Amy]

Yeah, absolutely. And even when people are acting, as the defense would claim, willingly, because they're showing up or they're carrying things or they're carrying out these. These demands, as they claim, like, with free will. There isn't free will. You know that there's no free will. You know that there's repercussions later.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't know that I've ever really had free will my entire career. Sadly, if you made me think for a second as you were saying, that I definitely could, like, bob my head. Yes. For the. Making the band aids. But there's always somebody controlling your narrative. And as you get further. I mean, I've been doing this since I was a kid and I'm 41 now, so over two decades I've been in the industry and haven't had another job. There is always somebody bigger than the person you thought was the biggest. There is always some uniform plan. There is always a schedule and a time and a place and the right thing to say and the right person to say it. And when you get your shot, you go. And if you don't, you don't. And I don't know that I've ever just been. Been. People see me as someone that is so confident and is they. They love to jump on the train the second that this all came down and say, Aubrey told us so. She told US so. For 20 years, she's been telling us he was a dangerous person. He wasn't somebody that was safe to work for.

[Amy]

Right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And like, that's great and all. And I guess that whatever has decided that I am somebody that is going to be a voice. I mean, I'm a voice right now on this platform for this, but I don't know how free the will is of anything really, because a lot of times I feel the system already has decided things. So I just, like, I think the jury is a piece of this puzzle that is just who they are as people and how they are going to interpret the information that they have been given. They are just going to interpret it as. So we can't really make a call for them. I mean, I know that they give you jury instructions. I've never personally sat on a jury, but I think you have to be able to, like, check off boxes, yes or no, to, like, walk you to an answer if you're having a problem. So. So they will have to hold themselves a bit accountable, I'm assuming. But I don't know. You know, I didn't. There Was no part of me that thought O.J. didn't kill Nicole, but yet he wasn't convicted.

[Amy]

Yeah. That's mind blowing.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Let me tell. Let me. Let's talk about a world where that happens now. You know, one thing I've had a little slight fear of is.

[Amy]

Is.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And I've made it clear in documented form, just in case it happens, so that the record could show I was right again. But it worries me that politics and entertainment tend to mirror each other pretty, pretty closely. We've seen a lot of things happening politically lately that are, like, shocking. Whether you like someone or don't like someone. There's a lot of movements that are just like, what, chaotic?

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I did not think that that could happen. Whether I like you or not, I didn't think all that could happen. Now over here. What if there's a scenario where I didn't think that that could happen in the beginning? Before Mia, it's. To me, I'm. I have a. I am standing steady on 10 toes. After MIA, before Mia, I thought maybe the prosecution might feel they get to a place where they've proven 1, 3 and 4, but not 2 and 5, and they might give a plea and we might see a trial this big and a person this big take a plea. And what the jury felt doesn't really even matter because they can all the way up until the jury comes back, if they feel that there's any point that they're losing on, they can offer a plea. And that's not something that I think anyone sees regularly. And so they don't necessarily even understand that that is a possibility.

[Amy]

It's a possibility, but I'll tell you, just based upon the little that I know of him, Him, I don't think he would take a plea deal.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Well, he didn't take the first one, but I think after Mia, he should start considering it. It's looking pretty bad, but when someone is.

[Amy]

Has been in the world that he's been in with people catering to his every whim, you don't think like a rational, reasonable person. You think that you're always going to win and you're always going to get away with it.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't. I don't even think he's had enough time to process the level of colossal destruction that he has created across so many lives. I don't even think he started at that yet because he was still in court in the very beginning, having his lawyers fight to get Cassie's husband taking out, talking about the husband sent him threatening messages, threatening him 20, however many years ago, threatening him that, you know, after he found out what happened to Cassie and my client's life was threatened, so he can't be in court next to him. Are you fucking kidding me? There's not a day in Diddy's life that he was scared of Alex. Fine.

[Amy]

Yeah, that was.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That was a maneuver to get. To make Cassie weaker and to not be able to have somebody to connect with on that stand, in my opinion. And I think, you know, that's a good lawyering move, but a shitty moral move, which is why, again, I don't love lawyers that. That are big defense. Criminal defense lawyers in situations like this, it's an icky. I respect them because they're really good at what they. The eight pack of white women was effective racially. I knew a lot of people that were like, why all white women? That's not a good look. I don't like the way this feels. I felt it even, and I was scared to say it, but I was like, I mean, it shouldn't come down to race. It should come down to who's most qualified to take on a case. But optics are.

[Amy]

Mark Errago set it for you.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I know. Optics are everything in a courtroom. Everyone, when they saw Cassie's pregnant belly, everyone was like, damn, did he better come with more than gray hair there?

[Amy]

Well, you know, the defense made a motion that they didn't want Cassie.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Them to be able to see her belly.

[Amy]

Yes. They wanted her seated before the jury came into.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I know there. There were a lot of little tactics that showed me. Okay, he's still. Either the lawyers are just really good in telling him what to do. I don't know. The fact that he's throwing love hearts and all of that still, like, yeah, we. I have not. I just. Can you show us a signal of accountability? So if you do get off on anything, like all the people that have been in your path of destruction can feel like safe staying alive on this earth.

[Amy]

Here's another question, and I feel like this maybe feeds allegedly into his narcissism or ego or whatever you want to call it. The fact that he has his children sitting in the courtroom.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I already said this on the very first podcast.

[Amy]

Mind boggling to me.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Mind boggling what my eyes. I've asked every type of. Every race, age range of man that I know. Would you want your. Would you want or even allow if it meant you could look better in front of a jury? Would you let your daughters hear about how you were slipping, slurping Slapping and popping it off every which way in the freak offs. And every single man that I've spoken to, every single race, every single age range was like, absolutely not. No. Zero, no. Know, for me, I think it's a choice.

[Amy]

Yes. And would you not be completely embarrassed? And that's what makes me think that this is truly someone who's so narcissistic that they have no concept of what they've done, that they would allow their children and their mom. What's his mom like, 80 something or I don't know, like his elderly mom to be.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Have you, have you done any research on his mom and what her work was and things like that?

[Amy]

No, I don't know anything about his mom. Is that another rabbit hole that I need to go down? I'm laying in bed.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Probably allegedly. Probably allegedly.

[Amy]

Okay. All right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

But, but I think, you know, I think for me, and this is, this is going to sound crazy because I don't even think it's a smart legal thing to do, but he's so down and out with the testimony. At this point, I feel all of the key things have been established from racketeering to sex trafficking to definitely possessing people across state lines. Those are all five cases counts. I think at this point you need to tell a very strong tale of how hurt people hurt people. I'm going to need to know how he was hurt and why he hurt others. And I still would have to call him guilty because the facts of the crimes are the facts of the crimes. But at least if I heard, maybe if I were a jury member that doesn't understand facts and crimes. If you told me why this hurt person hurt people and his hurt was so deep that it fucked me up. Those are the times where I've had sympathy for him along the way. Prior to getting into everyone's testimony, just based off of my general assessment of the time that I was in and knowledge of the times where I was not in, but had very reliable people that were in it along the way telling me everything.

[Amy]

So you're saying the only way that you would feel any ounce of sympathy is if there was some testimony that went to him being hurt so severely.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I don't, I'm, I, I was able to have sympathy at the beginning of the trial. I, I'm not getting it anymore. It's not in me.

[Amy]

No, no, no.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I'm, I'm out. None. None. Now, now we're, now we're getting into territory where the, the alleged sexual assaults are looking different than staged events. Yeah, they're looking just like as also Cassie alleged RA rape. That scares me deeply for all the unknowns in my own life. We're breaking patterns now. We're going into territories that are different. And that concerns me. I. I've lost the. The compassion card in the beginning when you have 80 civil suits and a lot of chaos. And I know some. A good amount of the players and I know. Know. You know, I had a bandmate that took the stand and it was heavily reported that she was inconsistent in a lot of her testimony. You know, I've known her to be inconsistent. So imagine prior to all of this knowing, I. I believe this person is inconsistent in the. In experiences that I've had with her, unfortunately. A good amount.

[Amy]

So did you think. Did you think her testimony helped or hurt the prosecution?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think it did nothing. If I'm being nice, if I'm being like you, judge, she hurt a little. It was the wrong. It was the wrong thing right after Cassie to have somebody. The thing that I didn't love is the inconsistencies came within the depositions that the prosecution took. They didn't even have to bring up anything on her that they may have had.

[Amy]

Right. So you're saying why bring it up if it's going to be an inconsistent statement? And then your witnesses. Inc. Doesn't look credible in court.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And Cassie was believable to everybody that left the courtroom and talked to me. So I don't think we needed. And we didn't need to double down on the fact that she got hit because. Because there's video of her beatings. Everybody knows what the beating looks like.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

We can't get it out of our souls.

[Amy]

Yeah. What's your take on that video? Who do you think leaked it? Do you think it was someone in.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I can't.

[Amy]

Someone in the hotel staff?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I can't say.

[Amy]

Well, here's what's interesting is there is a.

[Aubrey O'Day]

There is a group of us. I. I keep trying to get them to be able to be on the podcast with me, you know, because this started almost about two years ago for a lot of.

[Amy]

Of us.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And all the things that people were being shocked by in the past two years, we knew very long. Yeah. Some of it we've known since we've been there. Other things we've known went down. Dude, we know every graphic detail. No, but we knew plenty of things. I knew a few of the prostitutes. I knew the person that owns the place that was giving the prostitutes to the. That they were calling. Well, I knew one of the prostitutes was in prison. It was on Gigolo. Allegedly.

[Amy]

The guy that killed his girlfriend.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. And he said he told them, no, it's not true. But then his face was up on that poster board in court, and I was like, that's interesting.

[Amy]

Are you talking about the. What's the guy's name then? Or whatever? The bald guy?

[Aubrey O'Day]

Are you the guy from Gigolos?

[Amy]

Well, there's two guys that were up there from Gigolos.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I think the other guy did an interview talking about he was on deck for it, but never got called, basically. Stop interviewing. No one gives a fuck. Stop inserting yourself in a moment that isn't about you. Which is technically how I felt about, like, even. Even doing this podcast. I didn't want to do it. I was saying no for a very long time. And the ninth inning, it got presented to me in a different fashion. And then I felt a little bit more. I learned a little bit more about the personal side of things that I'm still trying to figure out, and that frustrated me. And then this. People came to me on this side and told me a way to do this that felt more credible and less like Wendy Williams, even though I love Wendy.

[Amy]

You mean less. Less gossipy, tabloidy more.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I didn't really. You know, I don't want to sit on a podcast every day and be interviewed about the dark, evil ways there were. I established in the very beginning. I don't have an ending that I want to see at the end of this. As more testimony goes on, I'm getting a little more heated. I got to be real with you. I have to, like, pace myself in between these podcasts and make sure that I come back down to a place where my biases are. Aren't popping up because I have them. I said it day one. I can't not have them. My entire life turned out to be something different than what it would have been had I never met him. He course shifted my life. He course shifted many people's lives. He not only course shifted my life, he course shifted my understanding of myself as a woman, which likely course shifted all the men that I chose to date in life and how I found myself valuable. Like I said, I was a nerd. Nerd. I was into the law. I was a geek. I didn't really have a lot of friends. All of a sudden, I was the looker. There was a lot of pressure in that. My toenails had to be perfect when I walked into a room or else I would get berated. Yeah, I didn't even think about my toenails before that.

[Amy]

Right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You know, I learned to groom myself properly and look certain ways and be certain ways. And when it was just when I disappointed him, I felt like I was ugly. And then for my whole life, I've been a fucking tabloid character to say I'm either obese, I'm this, I'm a plastic surgery nightmare, the ass is fake, or tits are fake, she photos or shops herself in fucking vacation, she's this, she's that. I can't fucking breathe without being attacked for that looker card that Diddy put on me. And I didn't give two fucks about the way I looked. I was into the law.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I was a geek. I read. I have books. I don't even. I haven't had sex in two years. I mean, I'm.

[Amy]

You know, you could be both. You could be sexy and smart at the same time, though.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. And by the way, as I get older, I'm. When I choose to embrace those things, they're for me. And I come at them with confidence. And it's my own confidence. It's not the confidence that was derived by a interpretation of me. But I will say, all the way up, even to last year, I'm. I was working nonstop Last year. Everybody wanted to book a ditty victim. And I'm not allowed to say things like that because I should be grateful that I got opportunities to sing again, to be on TV shows again, that networks graced me with their presence. But there, they really wanted to push that Diddy victim shit. And then there were some that I openly and honestly like, felt and trusted. There's one coming out that I felt safe with and trusted. And in that scenario, they got me on the indictment day on camera. I met the man on camera, and I learned of his indictment on front of the world. I haven't had a moment for myself off of a camera in so long. I don't. Sometimes when I'm not on a camera, I don't really know what the fuck life is. My dogs. And one of them just passed, sadly.

[Amy]

Can I tell you something that you just said that I wish I could turn my camera because I literally have two dogs laying right behind me right now.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Now I love it.

[Amy]

I feel like we're the same person. They're all rescues. I have three purebred rescues. So what are they?

[Aubrey O'Day]

I have a rescue, too. He's still alive.

[Amy]

I lost a Pomeranian a couple years ago. It was like the worst heartbreak of. Of my entire life. I. He was 12 years old, I still haven't recovered. Then I've got a, a German shepherd rescue. I've got a cattle dog rescue. And then I've got like a little pitbull mix somewhere around here rescue. So I, I have dogs and I read books all the time and I'm a huge nerd.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So Amy said that we would get along fantastically. You know what I said? I was like, I was like, she's a housewife. I don't know. And she's like, no, she's smart, she's savvy, like, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, I saw she sent me your picture. I'm like, she's beautiful. So now you're going to have two white bitches talking about a case where there have been implications that there are racially charged situations occurring by whoever the fuck is race baiting in that situation. Like, for me, I was like, optics wise, I don't, I don't love that. And I just, I'm so happy that I didn't run with the optics card because you're so great and you understand all of this so well and this has been so refreshing. And this is a work in progress type of show. You know, like, I don't want to be a journalist, I don't want to be a podcaster. I don't even really want to be in the industry anymore. I was definitely sliding on my way out and moving on, and I was definitely going to be like, like out of the country and on vacation during this trial and finding the peace that I needed within. But as I go episode through episode and meet new people along the journey and some like you, I'm just absolutely falling in love with. I think as I go further in it, I'm learning, I'm learning more about why this is, this project has the purpose that I, I, I was told it would have.

[Amy]

Well, I think from my perspective, looking at you and the way that you speak about, about it, you know, when I, when I talk about it with my husband and we do it, it's just straight from a legal perspective and it's very linear because I only, I don't know him, I don't have personal experience.

[Aubrey O'Day]

All the podcasts are linear. This is the only one offering something different.

[Amy]

Exactly. And I think maybe, and I understand you not wanting to go into it, not wanting to talk about it, trying to protect yourself, protect your emotions and contracts and everything.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I have so much pressure on my shoulders and I have other jobs that I'm not doing. I mean, fashion Nova has not seen a post in a few weeks. I'm gonna get fired as a brand ambassador.

[Amy]

You gotta get your outfits together, get your content together. What are you doing looking at this.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Many papers of notes, analyzing testimony, and figuring out how everything works.

[Amy]

I know, I do the same thing. I spend so much time doing legal research, it's insane. But I love it. Like, I enjoy it. Do you enjoy it? Because I enjoy enjoy it. That's how I know I'm a huge nerd.

[Aubrey O'Day]

When the narrative started to shift in regards to where Puff's behavior is starting to shift into other areas besides these, you know, dramatic events, you know, I'm getting a. It's getting a little more personal, a little more upsetting. And I just. The. The. I can't. I don't know why I had to have my life intersect with his. I think everybody that has ever been close enough with him that, you know, when they were criticizing her, when Brian was saying, oh, you said you love him in this text, I was like, I've told Puff I love him before. Yeah, we all loved him. And. And yet we were all traumatized by him. And yet we all found ourselves. I finished a TV show that did a number on me last year, and I walked out and called my agent and I was like, days like this, I literally miss Puff because he would have never allowed any of these fucking ignorant ass people that are younger than me, unprofessional as fuck, letting stupid shit fly on set, not following HR policies. Like, it was a hot fucking mess of debacle re going on and not even like properly produced, if that's what y' all are trying to do. Yeah, messy as fuck.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Puff would have had. Had put everybody's ass would have been in line. Everybody would have been scared. Everybody would have had their get right on and nobody would have ever come to set with sleep in their eyes. Half the fucking cast had crust in their eyes. And for me, I was just like the discipline that I had back in those days. I would like, I would come to set work, all of it, because it was all those things, right? Cameras up, and it was my job. And I had to perform and sing in the studio, everywhere. My me was my job. I'd have to wake up with cameras in front of me, get ready with cameras in front of me. Everything was always had to be so perfect with him that I'm so disciplined that even on sets nowadays, the whole cast had the commentary they had about me when they didn't know me was, she's always so she was always just so put together. She always just is like. She comes down in the morning. It's like, girl, we're all in PJs. Like, you're in an outfit with your hair done and your makeup on. Yeah. We're literally filming a TV show that lasts for like, two weeks. Weeks. Can none of you guys. I didn't even hear a shower go off this morning. None of you are even washed. Like, I don't. I don't understand that. Thank you. If that's why you dislike me, thank you. That's a compliment to the type of discipline that Puff put me under. However, what I'm learning is maybe that side of me is also a little unhealthy because I am constantly in that presentation mode and everything that I do in life until I go to sleep that I don't necessarily. You know, fuck. The one fucking time that I was like. And I was. I did not look like the pictures. I'll stay. I'll state that for the rest of my life. But the one time I was caught slipping no outfit on, looking like shit. Heavy during COVID Not as heavy as the photos, but heavy during COVID And slipping that turned into a goddamn nightmare. Made me lose a million fucking jobs. Made me this big loser that's lost it all. You can't even Google me without seeing those photos. And I have been on Broadway, to Playboy, to having my own television show, to doing every other reality TV show on the fucking earth, to the podcast. Now I don't know a lane that I haven't entered. I've literally done all of it really well and have platinum albums.

[Amy]

Yeah. But what sucks is you're saying I Google you, which I've never done, but if I Google right now, the fat photos are going to shut up.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You'll get fat photos, you'll get Trump Jr. You'll get Pauly D, and you'll get Puff. Every man or Ugly Time. And by the way, there's not several fat photos. There's that one whole selection of that. Of that one moment in time, that.

[Amy]

One time period, that one isolated event. And that's all that's out there.

[Aubrey O'Day]

One isolated event is now summarized me and every. And do you know, like, what that does to some. Someone that's been trained by Puff? It's like, you might as well just kill yourself. You just fucking lost the ball, bitch. You're now. It's. It's like that's the type of pressure that. That we. We learned as a kid at one point, my Bandmate past Danity Kane. I had a band with another band mate of mine, Shannon. Every day we'd wake up, we're hustling, we're doing this tour. And I'd have to go through all the problems from the show before these need to be set. This guy's up on his job, he's hitting the sound cues late. I need the lighting to come on early on this. Watching videos out, doing everybody's job. That's what I was trained by Puff to do and that's what I do well. I do everybody's job. So as I'm doing all of that, I'm. I'm. Shannon's talking with the Starbucks person. Super nice. Whatever. Get in the car. She drives while I'm doing all the work. And at one point she stopped and she was like, we're at a venue and she's touching some brick. And she goes, this is the last venue that Kurt Cobain performed in and he signed this brick. Like, this is like pretty epic that we're performing here tonight. I was like, shannon, the shoes are the shoes on stage. Right? Because last night you were laid on. On that. Is this, is this, is this, is this. And she looked at me and she was like, obs. Like, for one second you need to like, enjoy life. She's like, we have gone to Starbucks every morning for the past year of building this project. And you don't even know Carlos.

[Amy]

Who's Carlos? The barista.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yeah. And Carlos's mom works in the deli and her name is Patty and she's really nice. Nice. And Carlos has a roommate and this and that and, and. And she just told me this whole thing and I stopped and I realized I'm just always like this.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Fixing.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And I realized, like. And Shannon said we learned that from Puff and. Because Shannon was married prior and she goes back to us, you know, bend organ and her husband. And a very normal, slow paced life.

[Amy]

Yeah. She could come out of it.

[Aubrey O'Day]

She could come out of it. And she would tell me all the time, like, we were taught that you have to work so hard to get to the top of the mountain when actually you could just casually walk up it at a pretty, like, decent, steady pace that isn't painful. And you can get to the top and have had a pretty good life and enjoyed it too.

[Amy]

You could pick some flowers on the way up.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Pick some flowers, smell them. You can even pitch a tent and maybe photos. Take some photos and walk a little faster the next day. Like, it doesn't. We don't have to, like, be starved, sleepless.

[Amy]

Yeah. Freaked out, stressed to be successful.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I still find a heart and I still see victim aspects in that, even though I know other people feel differently. And I have to consider their stories as well. It's all very complicated and layered. Tired. But at the end, if you were to get charged on everything, I think I'd probably first feel pretty sad for him.

[Amy]

Yeah, you do. You have a. You have a level of sympathy in there still.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You know, I said I didn't like earlier on in this call, but I guess if you're telling. We're talking at the end of this, and it's looking. It's not looking great for him. You know, it's a whole man's life, and he's a very, very powerful man that shifted a culture for a very long period of time. But the collateral damage was so deep that for whatever crimes he committed, he does need to be put away.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

So I would feel a sorrow for what his life will be when he can't be all the things. Things. In all honesty, maybe when you take all of it away, he can just naturally be in a state where he can be who he's maybe always wanted to be. If there is something like that happening deep down, I don't know. But either way, like, there'll be that and then they'll be. You know, you have to remember after this is 80 civil suits, and I don't fall under the statute of limitations on anything anymore, but there are some things that I need to get to the bottom of. And. And there are some things that happened along the way that were traumatic as fuck for me, and I want to understand them. And I want the world to understand them as well. Because if I had to go through it and put on a smile to make all you motherfucking people watching me happy, then you're going to learn exactly what it looked like.

[Amy]

Are you thinking that you'll file a civil suit at some point?

[Aubrey O'Day]

When you're in a situation where there are a lot of victims and you're speaking to authorities, you're not allowed to speak with other victims. Now that there's a trial and I'm not subpoenaed, I know I can come talk here, obviously.

[Amy]

Right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

But. But if somebody were to have seen something or there was something to have occurred and they're a victim, then I wouldn't be able to understand my situation until their situation was resolved, or until at least this situation was resolved, because then I could actively start to call and ask and Investigate.

[Amy]

Yeah. So you're saying you're just hoping that these civil suits are a way for you to learn more about some of the other people.

[Aubrey O'Day]

I'm not waiting for 80 civil suits. I want to get right to it the second that I can. I just want to understand what. What, what. The information that I was given, I want to understand it.

[Amy]

So for you, it's more of a personal journey of understanding who he is and why he acts the way he does.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Is that I don't. I have my. I had my personal experience, and I do. I have answers to those questions. There's a situation that's still at large, Emily, as of today. Let's make a call.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

On possessing people across state lines. Two counts of that is. Does he get guilty on that?

[Amy]

I'm going to say. I'm gonna go with yes. Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Okay. I'm a yes on that, too. Sex trafficking.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Two counts. Two counts of sex trafficking. Right. Or is it. Yeah, okay, two sex counts of trafficking. Are we guilty as of today?

[Amy]

I'm gonna say guilty.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Guilty, too. What about on racketeering?

[Amy]

I'm gonna say guilty on racketeering. I think that there's all these witnesses. They're definitely establishing criminal enterprise and me as testimony. Like you pointed out, we're not talking about girlfriends anymore, so we can't. You can't hone in on the whole, like, you know, she was a girlfriend, she was doing it consensually. You know, that's just the way the relationship was. He's kinky. She went along with it. Now we're talking about the way he treated a personal assistant. So that was really compelling testimony as far as the criminal enterprise. So.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yep. Unless there's a bombshell that comes on Monday, I'd say, right, Mia. Mia was the glue that brought it. Brought it on home.

[Amy]

Right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

For now. I don't see a lot of lanes out of. Of this.

[Amy]

I don't either. The only thing I worried about in the beginning was jury tampering.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Well, we shall see, right?

[Amy]

We shall see. We shall see.

[Aubrey O'Day]

If anyone from the jury gives a wink before they give the call, we'll find out in a Netflix documentary 20 years later.

[Amy]

Exactly. All right.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Hey, Emily, thank you so much. It's been so great getting to know you. You're awesome. You literally make me want to watch the Housewives of OC this has been fun for me today.

[Amy]

Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was really fun. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it, and I look forward to next time.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Yes.

[Amy]

Okay. Thanks, Aubrey.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Thank you.

[Amy]

Okay, bye.

[TJ]

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[Amy]

This is an iHeart podcast.