← Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
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- [00:00]
Jay Smith Cameron
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Public Podcast Sponsor
Guaranteed Human support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com
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Bowen Yang
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- [03:11]
Public Podcast Sponsor
Amy Robach and T.J. holmes present killer
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Meaningful Beauty Sponsor
Thriller with your host, Alisa Donovan.
- [03:19]
Podcast Host
Hey everyone. Elisa Donovan here. And this is Killer Thriller. Okay, today we are diving back into one of the most unbelievable true crime sagas in recent memory, the Murdoch murders. This involves a powerful Southern legal dynasty, a deadly boat crash, financial crimes, and then Maggie and Paul Murdoch are shot and killed at the family's hunting estate. I mean, this case exploded nationally because it wasn't just about murder. It was about privilege, legacy, and the collapse of a family that seemed untouchable. And after a six week trial and less than three hours deliberation by the jury, Alec Murdoch was convicted of murdering his wife and son and was sentenced to two consecutive life terms without parole. Then he also received additional decades in prison for financial and fraud convictions tied to client theft and embezzlement. However, in February of this year, just weeks ago, the South Carolina Supreme Court heard oral arguments on Alec Murdoch's appeal of the murder conviction, but they have not made a ruling on that appeal as of yet. Now if you want to hear more about this case, you can go back and listen to first episode where I interview Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell, who are the journalists who cracked this case wide open. So today my guest is Jay Smith Cameron, who plays Marion Proctor, Maggie's older sister in the Hulu series Murdoch, Death in the Family. Jay, thank you so much for being here today.
- [04:55]
Jay Smith Cameron
My pleasure.
- [04:56]
Podcast Host
And I'm going to say first off, I'm a huge fan of yours and I have been for a very long time. So I get really excited when I doing this podcast. I wasn't thinking that I might get to actually talk with people that I admire. So I'm really thrilled that you're here today.
- [05:14]
Jay Smith Cameron
That is a very nice thing to say. Thank you.
- [05:17]
Podcast Host
And this series I think is so wonderful. The performances are so nuanced the script is so detailed. It's truly compelling and disturbing. So you play a role that is very close to the emotional center of the whole case. Maggie's sister, Marian. So were you familiar with the case before you read the script?
- [05:43]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yes, because I'm actually from South Carolina. I mean, the whole world followed it, I think. But I particularly was a glow. I. I'm not from the low country, which is where they reigned supreme, where Murdochs were, like, above the law. I didn't know them specifically, but I certainly know that culture. I mean, the. The coastal culture is a little different, but I'm. I'm from. I grew up in Greenville, South Carolina, but I had been to Charleston. A is where Marian lives or lived then, anyway, and so I was aware of it. I was fascinated by it. And then also just, you know, as it kept unfolding, it's like one of those really, really unusual things where it's like the more they. They're. They're really only looking into this part of the mystery, and then they find it's connected to this thing and this death and this. This fraud and so forth. And I thought it was fascinating. So I was aware of it. And then I also, when I got cast, I had worked with Michael, who. Who was the. One of the writers, and I'd worked with him on a show called Rectify, which also took place. It took place in Georgia, but it was also a very realistic, sort of soulful piece. And we were kind of in touch. And it was just like when he announced on Instagram or something that he had got the green light to do this, I was like, oh, is it a part for me dotting?
- [07:08]
Podcast Host
Yes.
- [07:09]
Jay Smith Cameron
Where do I fit in? Wait a minute. Actually, yes, there is. You're perfect for it. And so that's how that came to be. But, yes, I really did follow the case. And then after. After I got the offer, I really watched all those documentaries and the podcast that it's based on, that was an interesting facet of it for you, for sure.
- [07:31]
Podcast Host
And so we spoke Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell. They're the first episode we did of this podcast. And those two are just like, what powerhouses? And the work that they're doing is extraordinary and so important. And one of those things, like, when you know something is meant to be, it's like the secret sauce of, oh, this is all supposed to happen. Like, those women just, you know, went where their spirits took them, did the work and exposed. Like, it's. It's really incredible.
- [08:08]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty amazing.
- [08:10]
Podcast Host
She so obviously when you're playing a real person, it is, I would imagine, different than I've never played a real person who existed in history. So did you feel like, what sort of responsibility did you feel, did you feel protective of Marian? Tell me about that.
- [08:29]
Jay Smith Cameron
I know that the family is very, you know, I mean, they've been turned inside out by not just what happened, but all the exposure. And I think that, I think it is true that Marian really bonded with Buster and really helped him out post all of that. But I know that they were really like, please leave us alone. You know, and I can really, first of all, my heart went out to them about that. So as much as I would have liked to have talked to her or even just contacted her and said that I empathize with her, I just felt the right thing to do was nothing at all, like, leave her alone. But there was all the footage from the trial which is watch on YouTube. And also just. I've known a lot of women that, you know, who can say they're exactly like them, but I mean, no one's exactly like anyone. But I know that kind of woman. I know that sort of. I know dozens of them. Like, I felt like a camaraderie with just the relationship that Maggie and Marian had and just their. It's just a very particularly Southern, jovial kind of close knit family vibe. And I'm very close with my big sister. So I felt this real protect. I did feel really protective of her. And also I. So the makeup person on our show and really all the departments knocked themselves out being as literally exact to the real thing as they could. The costume designer, you can't believe what he did. Like he literally tracked down. Do you know about this?
- [10:17]
Podcast Host
Yes. Well, I was going to say I've watched everything, the series, but then also the documentary. And I would get them confused because off like the striped shirt that Alec is wearing when he's being interrogated and the police, like all of. I'm like, oh my God, I'm literally getting them confused.
- [10:37]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yes. And I mean, even, you know, Buster's girlfriend, they found the exact dress in my own line that she wore in the, in the, at the trial. She was sitting in the audience.
- [10:48]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [10:49]
Jay Smith Cameron
So. But what they did was, you know, like Marian appears to have little or no makeup on. And you know, a lot of the pictures of her that exist are pictures from some wedding or some big occasion. Those are not the scenes that are happening, generally speaking in the show. I mean, yes, there's One big party scene. But, you know, she's. You know, her face is shaped different than mine. Her hair is a different texture. So they wanted to literally do exactly the hairstyle as much as they could. But I have, like, skinny, fine hair, so if they pull it back in a ponytail, I felt it looked less like the real Marian's hair. But at that point was just. I mean, my. I didn't want to. That's not where I wanted to put my energy. I often have that. I often just, you know, acquiesce in the makeup chair. Especially if it's like that emotional part that. That's the more important part. That's my job. That's my part of it. But I felt like in their diligence to have me exactly that. I just pointed out how different I look from her in real life. But on the other hand, it did help me kind of channel her temperament and her. She, you know, is a quiet, luxury type dresser and which, you know, who doesn't admire that? I was fascinated by her, and I just felt so bad for her situation where she had, you know, because she. If you follow all the episodes, you see that. That my character, Marian, is really suspicious of Allah just from. Just from. Without there being any deaths involved. She's just like, he's always running off and doing shady, unexplained things. He's having indiscretions, I think. I don't even know about the drug problem. But, you know, I. I'm protective of her, and I might be one of the one voices that speak to her about this isn't as it should be, you know, and then of the irony of being like, well, this once, why don't you go? Because you really are close to his father and you want this. This parting to be peaceable. And, well, this is what I inferred that she was thinking.
- [13:01]
Podcast Host
Yep.
- [13:01]
Jay Smith Cameron
And then to have her feel like she sent her to her death and it was such an awful death is just a horrible thing. And I just. I feel so badly for her. I. I don't know her, but I feel like of. Of all the cast characters, she was the most prudent and careful and sensitive. And, I mean, that's my bias, I'm sure.
- [13:25]
Podcast Host
Yes. No, I think that. That seems clear. I would. I would agree with you on that and that difficult position. We were speaking about this off air before, about once, you know, relationships are complicated. And as a friend or a family member, if you have a female friend who, you know is perhaps in a relationship that is not great, for them, whether it's violent or emotionally violent, you know, whatever the circumstances are, once you cross that line of saying this needs to end or this person is bad, like you can't take it back. So that. That conversation is so careful, you know, and that's just. It's. It's devastating. She must. I would imagine that it's not easy for her. And this is also, you know, I think this series does a really nice job of developing that relationship between Marian and Buster, particularly in the later episodes. Can you talk a little bit about that? Did you know about. You mentioned that you did know a little bit about that in real life, that they had it. But was that on the page or did you two create it? Will Harrison is the actor who plays Buster.
- [14:42]
Jay Smith Cameron
Well, he's a really remarkable actor. He was very open. Both. Both the boys who played the sons were very open and responsive. I mean, I didn't have that much to do with the younger brother, but yeah, I mean, I thought he was wonderful and was wide open. And of course, those are. Those are. Those are not based on fact. Those are somebody's imagination of what kind of thing might have happened between them. And I just think that she. The circumstances drove Marian to. This is again, conjecture, but it seems borne out that she began to just pick up the slack. Like one. One parent is suspect, only brother and only mother are gone. And they sort of touching that. I don't think they were particularly close before that. And then she makes a point of reaching out to him and helping him and. And I believe I read or heard from one of my South Carolinian friends that she helped him get a home outside of that part of South Carolina. And he. She bought him a house in Greenville, which is where I grew up. I don't think he's there anymore, but I think he. He lived there for a while, his family. So I just think she really, really, really tried to show up for him in a way that's very heroic and touching.
- [16:10]
Podcast Host
Yeah, he's like the truly the innocent one in the whole scenario. Did so because it. Going back to Marion and Maggie, it does. It seems as though in reality and in this series that the way Marian and Maggie grew up was a bit more refined, a different kind of family, like culture. And you really see that juxtaposition and that kind of where we don't, you know, like, talk about that. Do you think? Am I right?
- [16:50]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yes, I think you're right. I think that's exactly right. I don't. I mean, I think that Maggie married into this good old boy kind of culture. But Marian, on the other hand, as I understand it, married into a really refined, well to do Charleston family. And so that division of the girls family and the Murdoch family was even more pronounced in Marianne, I think, after they had married. And, you know, and you can kind of see that in the costume. Costume choices and that custom designer went above and beyond. He was so brilliant. He had this thing. He found out that their. Their parents had gotten them engraved lockets when they, I want to say, graduated high school or graduated college. And they had their initials on it. And he found the same kind of lock and had them engraved. And we never saw them.
- [17:54]
Podcast Host
You never saw. I love this.
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Jay Smith Cameron
Oh, they were tucked in my collar. Like, mine was tucked in my collar. But he was like. He's like, I don't know if we'll ever get to see them.
- [18:01]
Podcast Host
Oh, I love this so much.
- [18:02]
Jay Smith Cameron
Don't you love him? I mean, he's just such a.
- [18:04]
Podcast Host
Well, and this is the thing, I think that people who aren't involved in entertainment really, like you people from the outside might not understand why something is good. Right. In general, like, why did I respond to this movie or this show? And it's all of these pieces that inform everything. It's like a. You know, when it's the perfect storm of everybody. Yes. Has so much care for their job and.
- [18:30]
Jay Smith Cameron
And verisimilitude, you know, that the principle of. Of it being as authentic as possible, that sort of specificity, even if you're unaware of it, it rings true. It has a. It has an undeniable aura of truth. And I think that hooks people, that makes them kind of lean in and pay attention more. This is always my theory, anyway.
- [18:57]
Podcast Host
Mandy Matney, Liz Farrell talked about this, about the emotional truth of always keeping that. You know, where whenever you're making a project, a narrative story about something real, there's always that question of how much agency do you have what has to be truthful. And you know that that baseline being the emotional truth is what's important. Feel that so much from this series, Patricia.
- [19:24]
Jay Smith Cameron
Well, I mean, forget about it. But I. I worked mostly with. Right. But Patricia, I just adored her. I felt such a connection with her. And she's such, you know, she's so free. She's. I thought this about Kieran Culkin, although their energies are completely a thousand percent different, of course, but Patricia is a director. Once corrected me that it's not so great to be relaxed as an actor. You always want to say, oh, she's so Relaxed on set. She's not relaxed. She's released. Right. She's like free and released and in the moment. And it was so powerful. Like you would feel like you'd slip into that flow state with her and it was just wonderful. She's just such a very down to earth person.
- [20:14]
Podcast Host
Oh, I love that. You could absolutely feel the connection between the two of you.
- [20:18]
Jay Smith Cameron
You.
- [20:18]
Podcast Host
And also I started to feel as though they. They look alike. They really could be sisters. Is this real?
- [20:26]
Jay Smith Cameron
So funny because we both are actually blue eyed and you know that they wore. Do you know about this?
- [20:30]
Redfin Sponsor
No.
- [20:31]
Jay Smith Cameron
All. None of them had brown eyes. But the Murdoch family, both sides of family, brown eyed. And they wore contact which were extremely uncomfortable for them because none of them I don't think wore contacts in real life.
- [20:43]
Podcast Host
Oh God. Yeah.
- [20:44]
Jay Smith Cameron
But they have brown eyes. Eyes which is that kind of a little bit unusual combination of a brown eyed blonde. Right. They're like we don't have in the budget for you to have brown. So I was like. But you know, somehow I don't know whether it's my imagination, but I think on the stand my eyes do look a little brown. Like when you see me in close ups. Like they don't look as blue as they. Or they're not really blue. They're sort of blue green. My eyes. Right. And sometimes they look very conspicuously greenish. Bluish.
- [21:10]
Podcast Host
Yeah, whatever.
- [21:12]
Jay Smith Cameron
And I'm like, I kept like whining about going, do they. They just will them to look. They will them, you know, cgi. Anyway, so they were. Yeah, they were hounds for authenticity, which is. I just respect it so much. And yet those scenes that they had to invent are filled with, you know, he has, they just have a good ear. The writers had a really good ear for southerners and for family. And you know, they really. Both of them were. And the directors were great too on that. I mean this is one of those really great experiences where you just.
- [21:51]
Podcast Host
Everything, right. Where everything is functioning at a high, high level.
- [22:03]
Public Podcast Sponsor
Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfol of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosure is available@public.com Disclosures hi, I'm
- [23:05]
Jay Smith Cameron
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- [23:37]
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- [24:14]
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- [24:50]
Podcast Host
So when I spoke with Mandy and Liz, they revealed that Marion, no, sorry Alec went and lived with Marian after the murders. Did you know this?
- [25:05]
Jay Smith Cameron
I didn't know that. Or if I did, I've now forgotten it. Because, you know, is that not the
- [25:10]
Podcast Host
most insane thing I'VE ever heard. So it's like he, he kills these people and then he goes and lives with her. It's almost like it's so controlling and so twisted.
- [25:21]
Jay Smith Cameron
Well, he's, he's truly psychotic. I mean, he's got a split. He doesn't, you know, whatever that is. He's really, truly 100%.
- [25:31]
Podcast Host
Allegedly. I'm being told to say allegedly. Everything I just said was alleged.
- [25:36]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yeah, I mean, I, I, they may have told me that or I may have read that, but I have blocked
- [25:41]
Podcast Host
that out now because. And then she testifies against him. Like, that's, it's beautifully. You do a beautiful job in the series of this and just showing of the sort of colors of that entire thing, you know, that she can feel like this is her sister, but then wanting to protect the family and knowing that balance of like, talk about that a little bit, that's really hard to do. Yeah.
- [26:11]
Jay Smith Cameron
I mean, I feel like she knows she's on the stand and I think she, unlike Alec, I think she has respect for right and wrong and respect for the law. And I think she's, you know, she has to tell Buster. Look, I have to, I have to tell the truth. I'm on the stand and this is about finding her, their murderer. And she's very circumspect. Like she says, exactly the truth. She doesn't color it with like, you know, she just says sort of matter of fact. I'm thinking not of my performance, but of, of her on YouTube, of like, you know, he said, you know, someone must have planned this for a really long time. But she doesn't say it with like arching a brow or looking at him or, you know, insinuating anything. It's like trying just like very matter of fact and very circumspect. And she just says as little as possible. But, you know that some part of her brain has sorted out exactly how to make her point without being flagrantly accusatory. You know, in fact, I think it's weird because I do say that I think she was happy. I know that. I know that she wasn't always happy. Do you remember this? Yes, yes. You know, the testimony. So I, I mean, there were times in spite of herself that she was like. Because I think. And also the way the show was fashioned was to underline. I'm very aware of Buster's feelings, you know, and so, I mean in the past tense, I guess she was happy at some point, but, you know, it's like I'm really being careful.
- [27:50]
Podcast Host
Yep.
- [27:50]
Jay Smith Cameron
About not overdoing, seems to me.
- [27:54]
Podcast Host
I mean, that kind of pressure for her, I just. I can't even imagine. And, you know, there were so many things that Alex says where he. He orchestrated his own demise, essentially saying things like that or, you know, what a tangled web we weave. It's like he couldn't help himself of sort of revealing who he truly is. I just.
- [28:22]
Jay Smith Cameron
I think we know some other people like that in the public eye these days.
- [28:26]
Podcast Host
Sure do. Sure do.
- [28:27]
Jay Smith Cameron
Just really feel. Who are just unaware of consequences when it comes to them because they feel like they're above the law and. Or they. Or maybe they're not even. That's too conscious a thought. It's like, you know, when our president, his first term, said, I could go out on Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and no one would care. You know, I mean, I think that was like an innocent comment he made. Like, that's just a fact, you know? Yeah. I mean, not that he was going to kill anyone or that he, you know, but that was such a telling thing and that he just said it as. It was almost something he was proud of. And like, you know, I just do think some people really think they're. They can't. They can't envision consequences for them, you know, and in that little part of. Of the world's real estate, they were king, you know?
- [29:20]
Podcast Host
Right. I mean, it's the. The accountability, you know, the. Certainly the lack of accountability that I think is so such a part of so many of these things. And, and, well, and the fact that he never, you know, Marian says he never seemed concerned about finding the killer. He was more concerned about his son, you know, the case being dropped against him, which is like. I think the series does a brilliant job of this too, where you're all of a sudden like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait a second. Why is no one worried about who killed these people? Like, why is this not the biggest question, you know?
- [30:02]
Jay Smith Cameron
Exactly. Well, it is for. For Marian and that. That's why I think it was an important part, a small but key role both in the story and in the series, you know, because she's like, but don't you. Don't you want to know who did do it? You know, like, it was very upsetting. Right.
- [30:21]
Podcast Host
When do you think, again, you're just instinct or opinion. When do you think that she fully believed that Alec was guilty?
- [30:32]
Jay Smith Cameron
I don't know if she. Well, when she fully finally did. I think it's that. Do you remember the scene in the police station where they finally play the cell phone footage.
- [30:43]
Podcast Host
Yes.
- [30:43]
Jay Smith Cameron
And they all realize he was there. And I think that's when this nickel drops for her. But I think she's always picking up a signal that, you know, there's something very dangerous afoot. And even before it happened, I think, you know, she just tends to say or has had a sort of radar about that.
- [31:05]
Podcast Host
It's such a reminder and a lesson to everyone that when we have those. Those instincts, that feeling, the Spidey sense, that's like this. Something's not right. Like, this is not okay, that it's so important to listen to those things, as uncomfortable as it might be or as, you know, no one want to have those conversations. Nobody wants to say, I think your husband's violent, or, you know, whatever it
- [31:33]
Jay Smith Cameron
may be, and you don't even want to believe it yourself. Right. It's like you want to look at it through your beloved sister's eyes, you know, and at the same time, you can't quite ignore your Spidey sense, as you put it. Brilliantly. Right. Yeah.
- [31:48]
Podcast Host
Right. So this. This family had power for generations. So do you think that that kind of legacy creates blind.
- [31:59]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yes. And I think they're in a small, distinct part of the world where they were born into having just absolute authority in a way. You know, there's that feeling all along from the boat accident.
- [32:12]
Podcast Host
Yep.
- [32:12]
Jay Smith Cameron
On of. Like, just let me talk. Let me do the talking. And just he seemed at ease, really.
- [32:18]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [32:19]
Redfin Sponsor
Like.
- [32:19]
Jay Smith Cameron
Right.
- [32:20]
Podcast Host
Like knowing there's no consequence. Yeah.
- [32:22]
Jay Smith Cameron
I didn't even. I felt like it didn't even occur to him, like. Like, I'll take care of this as I always have done and as everyone before me has done. And I believe that Michael told me that. That if you look back, I think it was Michael told me this. That going back in the far history of the Murdochs, there's all kinds of unexplained, weird that. From his forebears, which is also just on unplumbed depths of suspicious stuff, you know, so. Yep.
- [32:59]
Podcast Host
You said the survivors of this family have one of the roughest stories. What hit you the hardest about what they've lived through?
- [33:08]
Jay Smith Cameron
Well, I feel so badly for Buster. I mean, that's. But, you know, and there's stuff that the series doesn't even get into about maybe his past, too. Like, we don't really know everything about some other shady things that happened, if I'm not mistaken. But I can say about my character at least. I felt she was 100, an innocent drawn into a web of deceit. And machinations and I, and it's almost like a Greek tragedy. Like the fact that she encouraged her to go back. Like, I feel so bad for her. I wish I could give her a hug, which is a stupid thing to say, but I just, that would be insufficient. And why would she want a hug? But I just want an impossible. That's really like out of a Greek play, isn't it?
- [33:59]
Podcast Host
It really is. I mean, it truly is. And the way it just keeps unfolding, it's unbelievable. If it weren't real, I mean, it's like truly unbelievable.
- [34:12]
Jay Smith Cameron
Truth is stranger than fiction.
- [34:14]
Podcast Host
It truly is. So what was the hardest emotional scene for you to shoot in the series?
- [34:25]
Jay Smith Cameron
I think maybe just the
- [34:34]
Podcast Host
party scene
- [34:35]
Jay Smith Cameron
where he's making a toast and I later kind of get him aside and like, like, well, who do you think did it? And you know, and he just what you were referencing earlier, that was difficult. I mean, it was difficult in a good way. Like, it was a. Because I think I'm a little afraid of him on top of everything else we talked about. Sure. I think I'm like, well, I want him to shoot me. I mean, that's just me talking. But, yeah, you know what I mean? And that might be why, if he stayed with someone during the trial, he picked her because maybe he felt like,
- [35:10]
Podcast Host
right, she was susceptible, she was afraid,
- [35:13]
Jay Smith Cameron
she was captured there because of by marriage, being connected to it, sort of. But the insinuation within insinuations within insinuations in a huge group scene and you just, you only have like a couple of lines. That's when, that's when the hardest parts of the series were, was to get across that in just a little tiny crafted moments. Right. Trying to get, you know, I think she really wants to know. She's not trying to entrap him.
- [35:42]
Podcast Host
Right. She really wants to know.
- [35:44]
Jay Smith Cameron
She's also picking up on another part of her brain. She's like, why is he acting like this? You know, and just a lot to do in a few little lines and Jason be moving around, getting himself more drink, more to eat, so I could like trying to stay in my shot saying, you know, my mark, let's talk
- [36:02]
Podcast Host
about Jason Clark's work for like a second or for 10 years.
- [36:09]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yes.
- [36:09]
Podcast Host
He, it's like, I, I, yeah, it's really on another level. And I, I, as I said from the start, everyone is wonderful in this series. He is like, was it as chilling up close as it is to, as a Viewer?
- [36:30]
Jay Smith Cameron
Absolutely, yeah. 100. I mean, first of all, except for Being a big guy, you know, like, I didn't think he particularly looked like him, but he does when he's acting it. Like, he. People kept telling me he looks so much like him. I was like, he does, yeah.
- [36:48]
Podcast Host
Like, no, he's like a handsome guy.
- [36:50]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yeah. Yes. He's channeling him so that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite scary.
- [37:00]
Podcast Host
It's very, very powerful. Marian has stayed almost completely out of the spotlight since the trial. And do you think, like, what do you imagine? I mean, we've talked a little bit about this, but I. Like, how. How does she function? I mean, does she. She doesn't have.
- [37:24]
Jay Smith Cameron
Does she. Is she married?
- [37:26]
Podcast Host
Does she have her own family?
- [37:28]
Jay Smith Cameron
Well, as far as I know, I mean, she did at the time. She would refer to her daughters. She had daughters while her. Her sister had sons. And the sons were always rambunctious. And Maggie was always kind of in over her head, even just with them, so. And whereas I had daughters. And there's a couple of times in the show that my character is saying, like, well, they're. They're. They're. They give me. They give me my. Their own problem. Like, you know, they're rambunctious in their way, too. And she says, remember, we were. We were kind of. We. We were naughty. We did stuff. So as far as I know, again, I just sort of had this feeling, like, once the show was wrapped, I was like, I am not going to. I'm just gonna, like, you know, not that she would ever know or care what I was thinking or doing, but I am not going to pry into her life anymore. Like. Right. I just felt this incredible. She's so. She seems so private, even just the way, like, I think I'm probably. You know, she gets emotional and. Stan. But being me, I think I get more emotional. Like, I think she just had such a lid. Not out of falseness, but out of, you know, poise and is ladylike. And she wanted to acquit herself well, and she wanted. You know, I have real admiration for her and real. As I've said a million times, I just felt. Felt for her so much. As far as I know, she still is. I told you the one thing I heard about her helping Buster out and that for a while, lived in Greenville, and I think my friend said he since moved. But I have really tried just spiritually. I'm like, I, for one, am not going to pry until. I mean, if I find out more crimes about that family, I would be as fascinated as anybody. But in terms of the innocence involved, the Innocent ones. I don't want to, you know, have that in my. I don't want to be guilty of that somehow. Right. Understand, like. Right. It was incredibly helpful that there was so much material on really all the characters, to different degrees, available online. But, you know, I just think their life, her life probably goes on being difficult. It's such a. The notoriety of it and the huge, you know, the layers of it.
- [39:42]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [39:43]
Jay Smith Cameron
And the violence of it was just so huge.
- [39:47]
Podcast Host
You know, to that end, the, you know, true crime audiences can be very intense and, you know, they know everything, all the timelines and the transcripts. And did you feel any pressure with regard to that? And has anybody reached out to you telling you their opinions about your performance or your interpretation?
- [40:14]
Jay Smith Cameron
No one has. If someone said something on social media, I didn't catch it. But none of my friends, I have a couple friends who are interested in true crime, like fascinated by it. And I find it fascinating. And I love a. I love fiction or true crime on television. I think a well made series about that. Love it. You know, I'm just.
- [40:37]
Podcast Host
Me too.
- [40:38]
Jay Smith Cameron
That kind of thing. It's just so fascinating. Right. So. But I think they just. That was their strong suit besides having cast that family so well. Their strong suit was their attention to detail and truth. And you know, they had to edit some because there was just vast amounts of material. Right, right. Yeah.
- [41:01]
Podcast Host
That like kept coming also.
- [41:04]
Jay Smith Cameron
That's right. Kept coming. Yeah. I thought they did an incredible job. They just had such a surfeit of, you know, fascinating stuff that they had to contain in eight episodes or whatever it was.
- [41:18]
Podcast Host
Yeah. Yep, yep. I was sad when it was over. I felt like I wanted it to be longer. Well, he continues to do absurd things. You know, the phone calls from jail and all. I mean, it's just a sort of endlessly fascinating.
- [41:37]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yeah.
- [41:38]
Podcast Host
So why do you, why do you think people are so fascinated with true crime and what. And you know, watching series of it on tv.
- [41:48]
Jay Smith Cameron
I mean, I don't have anything profound or unusual to say about that except that I just think it's human nature to be fascinated because I think there is a basic human sense that we're all. We're involuntarily making judgments all day long, every day of our own lives to stay alive. That's like. We don't need to think to take the next breath. We do it. We instinctively, we all of us have an instinct to stay alive. And for most people, to keep other people alive. You know, people are famously jump in the water after someone even if they're scared of the water or they're, you know, famously, you know. So I just think it's. I mean, this is just what I feel. But. So I think it's when someone doesn't have that peace in their psyche that for. To whatever degree they step outside of that to. To make a choice or to. To in the moment of inspiration, do something like kill someone. I just think it is. It's such a perverse break of. Of human law, like, of involuntary built in law. Like, it's like what. You know that. That's my take on it.
- [43:12]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [43:12]
Jay Smith Cameron
I know that there's kind of all kinds of killing that happens in the world, such as warfare and all kinds of things that happen where people compartmentalize and I don't know what they do to live with themselves, but it's, you know, dead tricky. Yeah. You know, I just finished. I just in January shot an episode of Elspeth. Do you know that show Elspeth? It's a kind of a Colombo show. Elspeth is a character that was. Yes, Good Wife. Then she was in the Good Fight and now there's a spin off that's just about her. She was a defense attorney in those shows, but she's now helps the police department in New York City solve crimes, is the idea.
- [43:53]
Podcast Host
Oh, yes.
- [43:55]
Jay Smith Cameron
You know, she. I don't know if you've watched those other shows, but Carrie Preston is incredibly good in it and she.
- [44:00]
Podcast Host
Yes, she's great.
- [44:01]
Jay Smith Cameron
This character, the lawyer has ADD and she's seems to be very ditzy and incapable. And then she's like, you know, her brain is just, you know, clicking. And so that's. It's a really fun show because it's a little bit like only murders in the Building, say, where it's whimsical. It's funny, but there's still some tension because there's a murder involved, you know?
- [44:21]
Podcast Host
Right, right.
- [44:22]
Jay Smith Cameron
So the. Every episode starts with a murder. The audience knows who the murderer is, just like Columbo did.
- [44:29]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [44:30]
Jay Smith Cameron
You watch Elsbeth, you know, trap them and find out the truth and nail them. So I got to be a murderer on ELSPETH this season, April 2, and I haven't seen it yet, but I had so much fun doing it.
- [44:44]
Podcast Host
Oh, I can't wait. I will. I'll watch that all day. Like Murder, She Wrote all that. You know, all that stuff. Oh, my gosh. Aside from the weird that the only thing doesn't, like sort of hold over for Murder, She Wrote, little misogynist but but you know it's okay.
- [45:07]
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- [47:08]
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- [48:45]
Podcast Host
So you've played so many intelligent, layered women. What is it about Marian that you find or found the most interesting?
- [48:56]
Jay Smith Cameron
Just that she had a private, she seemed to have a private life that was very rich. And it was a, a unique opportunity, a unique challenge to have that be not transparent. I mean, hopefully transparent, like reveal that when the very nature of her is to conceal it, like what she's thinking. I thought that was. I don't know if that's exactly an answer to your question, but that's, that was my favorite thing about the character. Like, yeah, in terms of an actor, like being an actor, like I like that problem to solve, you know. Yes, very circumspect, deliberate, careful, excellent manners. But the storytelling of it is you need to know what she's thinking or, or guess it or pick up on something, that something's worrying her or so you know, but she's just, she's tight lipped and she's, you know, she's, she's conscious of being always ladylike and correct and, and maybe ladylike is a kind of an antiquated term. But, but that's very, that's a very South Carolinian property, you know, in the most respectful way. I realize it's a bit outdated to say that. Yeah.
- [50:05]
Podcast Host
And she has to be the one. Because she is the one that literally says on the stand, I don't understand why this is this way. You know, like, she has to. And it is. It's totally contrary to.
- [50:20]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yes.
- [50:21]
Podcast Host
Her character, her demeanor.
- [50:24]
Jay Smith Cameron
Yeah. Her nature is. But she also. I think that just, you know, she's. It struck me as. She said as little as possible, but got her point. Yes. Right. Like, just so economic.
- [50:36]
Podcast Host
Yes.
- [50:37]
Jay Smith Cameron
That's why. I mean, I just admired her so much. Yeah.
- [50:40]
Podcast Host
So I think I know the answer to this question, but I'll ask it anyway. When you wrap a project like this, does it linger with you or do you just. Just leave it behind?
- [50:48]
Jay Smith Cameron
Well, it lingers, but. Of course. But this time, this kind of thing was so scary that I did psychologically go shut the door there. Like, I kind. I didn't watch it right away when it was on air. I still haven't finished watching it because it was really. It was very nightmarish like that. I remember Patricia saying, just sort of out of the blue between, you know, they're changing the camera, camera. And she just said, this is so horrible. This is so. What a nightmare. It's like, horrific. I mean, we've all seen horror movies that are really incredibly violent and horrible. This was a true story that is playing out horror, you know, and she just, like, I just saw her think about that and I thought, oh, she's going to have PTSD from this, you know.
- [51:43]
Podcast Host
Right, right.
- [51:45]
Jay Smith Cameron
But. But I didn't have that kind of role. But still, I just, you know, you didn't want to. You didn't want to foster some kind of print, you know, interest in a ghastly thing that happened to real people. Like, I didn't want to dwell on it.
- [52:01]
Podcast Host
So have you. So you have not watched the whole thing?
- [52:04]
Jay Smith Cameron
I haven't watched the whole thing. I've watched some of every episode, but I'm kind of like, I have not to the place yet where I could sit down and enjoy watching the whole thing. Thing.
- [52:12]
Podcast Host
Do you know what I mean? Interesting. So you would take you. You've watched parts of each episode.
- [52:17]
Jay Smith Cameron
I set out to watch it, and I would watch a little bit and I'd get uncomfortable and walk out of the room and like. So. But I know what'll happen. It'll be like, I get a little distance on it. Right. And. And I'll just sit down and enjoy the hell out of it. Like, you know, I'm still.
- [52:30]
Podcast Host
I'm.
- [52:30]
Jay Smith Cameron
I'm. I've. I want to do a rewatch of Succession. Because watch those episodes.
- [52:36]
Podcast Host
It's a must never.
- [52:37]
Jay Smith Cameron
Twice. I never saw an episode twice that I'm aware of. And so I want to go and watch that in a way that I would just be in regular audience members. Right. Just enjoy it, you know.
- [52:45]
Podcast Host
Oh, you have so much. Many hours of joy ahead of you for that. We've already watched rewatch. I've already rewatched it.
- [52:54]
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- [52:54]
Podcast Host
Yes.
- [52:56]
Jay Smith Cameron
Well, I'm gonna do it.
- [52:58]
Podcast Host
Yeah. And this is really, you know, the nature of this podcast is about talking about true crime, obviously, and the. And how you create narrative around that. And I feel like there is, you know, this series in particular, and when it's done, when things are done right, they're. They're really quite beautiful in being able to transmit the human condition and the experience and the nuance of these stories and how important it is that they're. They're told. And it really is incredibly well done. And what do you hope that people who have watched it or actually not, what do you hope. If Marian ever watches this or has watched it, what do you hope that she takes away from it?
- [53:56]
Jay Smith Cameron
I can't imagine that she'd watch it, but I would hope that she gets some relief in. I hope that it seems truthful to her and that that might be, in some horrible, roundabout way, kind of a relief, like, do you know, just to have it.
- [54:14]
Podcast Host
Yes.
- [54:15]
Jay Smith Cameron
Told the true story told. And I hope that she. That I hope that she senses the dignity I tried to give her character, because I feel like she's just a very dignified person and a very person and a respectable. You know, the irony. It's just, you know, that she would marry into this family with very little sense of responsibility or. And that she just. I. I would hope that she would pick up on that, but, you know, who knows? She might just think I'm a kook. And, like, why'd they get her to play me? And, you know, who knows? I mean, like. Because imagine, like.
- [54:54]
Podcast Host
I mean, I'm certain of the multitude of things that she could be thinking. I don't think that's even in.
- [55:01]
Jay Smith Cameron
I mean, but I am kind of a kook, so. I mean, she wouldn't be wrong.
- [55:06]
Podcast Host
Listen, from one kook to another, I. I am. I'm on that page. Well, Jay, you are such a joy. I really mean it that I'm. I'm so thrilled that I got to spend this time with you, and maybe you could come back and talk about playing a murderer.
- [55:26]
Jay Smith Cameron
I'd love to. I got to do it in criminal intent many years ago. But I can't wait to find out how I decided my character on Elspeth emulated Anna Wintour. So I'm not playing Anna Wintour or anything. I'm playing a weirdo who wants to have that, that incredible authority and sense of style.
- [55:50]
Podcast Host
Love it. I love it.
- [55:51]
Jay Smith Cameron
So I had fun inside of fun inside of fun. It was really complicated, you know.
- [55:57]
Podcast Host
Well, I will definitely be watching that. And Mardock. Death in the Family is an eight part series. It is streaming on Hulu. I cannot recommend it enough. It's a phenomenal series and you're terrific in it along with everyone else. So thank you so much for spending this time with us.
- [56:16]
Jay Smith Cameron
Us. You're lovely. You are too. Have a great day. Thank you.
- [56:31]
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- [59:03]
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