Stabbed 20 Times But Young Teacher’s Death Ruled a Suicide; Feds Now Involved

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Episode: Stabbed 20 Times But Young Teacher’s Death Ruled a Suicide; Feds Now Involved
Date: January 16, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

This episode centers around the mysterious and controversial 2011 death of Ellen Greenberg, a 27-year-old schoolteacher from Philadelphia found with more than 20 stab wounds (including several in the back of her neck) and a knife still lodged in her chest. Despite the brutal circumstances, her death was ruled a suicide—something her family has never accepted. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes examine the ongoing struggle for answers, recent developments involving the U.S. Attorney's office, and persistent questions about investigative flaws and possible corruption.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Case Breakdown: Ellen Greenberg’s Death

• Initial Shock & Official Ruling

  • Ellen Greenberg was found by her fiancé on January 26, 2011, in their locked Philadelphia apartment; she had suffered over 20 stab wounds, including 10 in the back of her neck, and had a 10-inch knife in her chest.
    • Amy Robach: “To anybody with common sense, that just doesn’t make sense.” [03:25]
  • The initial ruling was homicide, but two weeks later, her manner of death was changed to suicide, despite her family’s protests and widespread skepticism.

• Lack of Suspects & Family Frustrations

  • No suspects have ever been named or investigated—not even her fiancé, who discovered her body.
    • T.J. Holmes: “That has never sat well with her parents...” [02:47]

• Recent Federal Interest

  • The U.S. Attorney's office recently subpoenaed documents from the Philadelphia Police Department to open an inquiry into whether Ellen’s death was properly investigated.
    • T.J. Holmes: “They are apparently opening an inquiry into whether Ellen Greenberg’s death was properly investigated.” [03:56]

2. Possible Corruption and Investigation Flaws

• Why Now?

  • The federal involvement is not about re-investigating the manner of death directly, but rather the integrity of the original investigation—suggesting possible mishandling or corruption.
    • Amy Robach: “This looks like they’re looking into… This is a corruption [probe].” [05:04]

• Family Reaction

  • The family views this development as a victory and renewed hope for justice.
    • Family statement: "...a dream come true for her parents...we have only wanted justice for Ellen and now have renewed hope." [05:30]

• Historic Acknowledgment of Flaws

  • In 2024, a Pennsylvania court acknowledged “serious flaws in the investigation,” even though it refused to change her death certificate from suicide to homicide.
    • T.J. Holmes: “The court wrote that it was acutely aware of the deeply flawed investigation conducted by city police…” [11:18]

3. Details of the Death and Investigation

• Scene and Evidence

  • No forced entry, the apartment was locked from the inside, and there were no defensive wounds or evidence of struggle.
    • T.J. Holmes: “There was no sign of forced entry and the place was locked. There was no sign of a struggle... no defensive wounds.” [07:22]

• Medical Examiner’s Ambiguous Findings

  • Medical examiners cited “hesitation wounds” as evidence for suicide, but later at least one pathologist reversed their position.
    • T.J. Holmes (about the autopsy doctor): “He said in a sworn statement...Ellen’s manner of death should be designated as something other than suicide.” [09:08]
  • In 2025, Philadelphia settled with the Greenbergs, agreeing to an independent review of the autopsy after the pathologist’s retraction. [09:50]

• Unanswered Questions

  • The method (multiple stab wounds, especially in the back of the neck) is highly atypical for suicides, and the family’s private investigator found some wounds likely would have incapacitated Ellen.
    • T.J. Holmes: “A couple of the knife wounds...would have incapacitated her...she would not have been able to then give that final stab in the chest…” [22:06]

4. Mental Health & Theories

• Possible Anxiety

  • Some reports suggest Ellen may have suffered from anxiety related to her job as a teacher, but the family and many observers remain unconvinced that this explains the circumstances.
    • T.J. Holmes: “There was some information...she may have been suffering from anxiety at the time of her death...” [12:46]

• Suicide Made to Look Like Homicide?

  • T.J. Holmes: “It’s almost like suicide made to look like homicide. I can’t get my head around choosing that method.” [13:18]

5. The Fiancé’s Role and Public Perception

• Fiancé Cleared by Police, But Not by Public

  • Sam Goldberg, Ellen’s fiancé, has never been a suspect or charged, though he found the body and reported the death.
    • T.J. Holmes: “The only public statement her fiancé has ever made...he told investigators that the lock on the door was latched from the inside...” [19:19]

• His Only Public Statement (2024)

  • “Mental illness is very real and has many victims. I hope and pray that you never lose someone you love like I did, to a terrible disease and then be accused by ignorant and misinformed people of causing her death.” – Sam Goldberg, 2024 (to CNN) [20:22]
  • The hosts discuss how, despite official clearance, the fiancé remains under suspicion in public forums and documentaries.

6. Family’s Private Investigation

• Visualization of Wounds
  • The Greenberg family’s own investigator mapped the stab wounds, concluding that several (notably to the back of the neck) would have prevented Ellen from self-inflicting the fatal chest wound.
    • T.J. Holmes: “They had their own private investigator actually put knives where all of her stab wounds were and the depth at which the blade went in...” [22:06]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Official Ruling:
  • Amy Robach: “To anybody with common sense, that just doesn’t make sense.” [03:25]
• On the Pain of Not Knowing:
  • T.J. Holmes: “It’s hard enough to lose a child...but to have her death be unexplained...that’s a whole other level of pain and torture on top of the death itself.” [05:30]
• Family’s Statement:
  • “The prospects of the federal United States attorneys investigating any aspect of Ellen’s murder is a dream come true for her parents, Sandy and Josh. We have only wanted justice for Ellen and now have renewed hope this will occur.” [05:30]
• On the Corruption Theory:
  • Amy Robach: “You’re covering your own butts because you screwed up...or it could be an awful, unfortunate mess...” [12:21]
• On Method of Death:
  • Amy Robach: “It almost feels like two different things...how are you going to convince me it’s a suicide? She got stabbed 20 times.” [10:14]
• On the Fiancé’s Statement:
  • Sam Goldberg: “I hope and pray that you never lose someone you love like I did...and then be accused by ignorant and misinformed people of causing her death.” [20:22]
• Summing Up the Unsolved Mystery:
  • T.J. Holmes: “Look, we may never know, but this new inquiry could give us some answers or at least some insight into the process...” [22:54]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:15] – Case introduction: Ellen Greenberg's death and initial questions
• [03:56] – U.S. Attorney’s Office opens inquiry, significance for the family
• [07:22] – Details of how Ellen was found; doubts about suicide theory
• [09:08] – Medical examiner retraction, legal settlement, and autopsy review
• [11:18] – Court acknowledges flaws in original investigation
• [12:46] – Discussion of Ellen’s mental health/anxiety, but skepticism on suicide theory
• [19:19] – New federal inquiry; summary of all doubts and new hope for family justice
• [20:22] – Fiancé Sam Goldberg’s only public statement
• [22:06] – Family’s independent investigation and theory on incapacitating wounds

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Episode Takeaway

Amy and T.J. comprehensively break down a case long mired in suspicion, grief, and allegations of investigative incompetence or corruption. As the U.S. Attorney's Office steps in, there’s new hope for transparency and some measure of justice for Ellen’s family—even if the fundamental question of how she really died may never be answered. The episode combines empathetic storytelling, clear context, and an honest look at a still-unfolding mystery—leaving listeners eager for further developments.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.

[Amy Robach]

And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is.

[Ed Helms]

You can decide who takes home the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the Year by voting at iHeartPodcastAwards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at iHeartPodcastAwards dot com Audible is.

[T.J. Holmes]

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[T.J. Holmes]

You know, we always say new Year, new me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of Checking in on the Black Effect Podcast Network. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth and everything you need to step into your next season whole and empowered. New Year. Real you listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

Back in 2016, we said, let's do a podcast. Little did we know it would last 10 years. I mean, but here's the thing. Stay out of the forest. You're in a cult. Call your dad. This is terrible. Keep going, you guys. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[Amy Robach]

A cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

My favorite Murder turns 10 this month. Join us for new episodes every Thursday on the Exactly Right network. Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye.

[Amy Robach]

Hey there, folks. It is Friday, January 16th, and when you hear that a woman was stabbed more than 20 times, but her death is ruled a suicide, you're going to have questions. But now, here we are, 15 years after the death of Ellen Greenberg. The federal government seems to have some questions about this, too. Finally, and with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and tj. Fascinating case. That's the first question. How is it possible that someone who was stabbed 20 times, you're going to tell me that's a suicide?

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes. And imagine being the parents of Ellen Greenberg and you find out that your 27 year old daughter, who is seemingly happy, engaged, she has a feeling, fiance, she's a schoolteacher, that all of a sudden she is found in her kitchen in Philadelphia with all of these stab wounds, including a 10 inch knife in her chest, that she died by suicide and not by homicide. That has never sat well with her parents who have said, our daughter did not commit suicide. We know that she was murdered. However, her official cause of death is suicide.

[Amy Robach]

To anybody with common sense, that just doesn't make sense. Now you're curious and you want to hear some more answers. And we'll get into some of the back and forth, but one medical examiner rules it a homicide and comes back and said a suicide. And then another group says, no, we think it's a suicide. Then another group said, so there's been a lot of back and forth. The official ruling we should say is in fact that she died by suicide. There has, at least as far as I have seen robes, never actually had a suspect, never had anybody under investigation in this case, including the fiance.

[T.J. Holmes]

And that's a problem for the parents. And they feel like, and they have said this is a victory for them because this week, on Thursday, we are talking almost 15 years to the day because Ellen Greenberg died on January 26, 2011. But on Thursday, the U.S. attorney's office issued subpoenas around this case. They are apparently opening an inquiry into whether Ellen Greenberg's death was properly investigated. And that's important because they're not necessarily going back and saying we're going to change or potentially change her manner of death. But what they're doing is they're saying this investigation possibly was not conducted properly. The family has said the investigation was botched from the beginning. They're mincing no words, but apparently the U.S. attorney's office is seeking documents from the Philadelphia Police Department and other agencies. That's the information we received.

[Amy Robach]

And you have to ask why? Why now? And if you're not looking into the actual death, why are you looking into the investigation of her death? So this looks like they're looking into. This is a corruption pro.

[T.J. Holmes]

Exactly right.

[Amy Robach]

So why that now for the family, you have to go, okay, if this came across their desk, what else is coming? This is our case. So even if they. I bet the family's been screaming this. So I bet even if they don't get a change in the ruling of the manner of her death, to hear that maybe there was some wrongdoing that led to an extended amount of pain that their family didn't need to go through, who knows?

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah. Think about this now. It's hard enough to lose a child, period, but to have her death be unexplained, or at least for you not to feel like you actually know what happened to your daughter, that's a whole other level of pain and torture on top of the death itself. This is the statement, the official statement from the family after the announcement of this inquiry. So here's what they said. The prospects of the federal United States attorneys investigating any aspect of Ellen's murder is a dream come true for her parents, Sandy and Josh. We have only wanted justice for Ellen and now have renewed hope this will occur. Sandy and Josh and their lawyers will continue to pursue and support all avenues to secure justice in this matter. That makes sense.

[Amy Robach]

What is, how is it? What does justice now look like? They didn't like the investigation or is it your understanding as well? Robes. They didn't like how it was conducted or just they didn't like the conclusion. It almost feels like it's two different things. Right?

[T.J. Holmes]

I mean, to think that it. Her death, and we'll get into the details of it, was initially ruled a homicide for obvious reasons, but two weeks later they changed it to suicide. And so that doesn't seem like a lot of time. But we'll get into the why and how this all happened, the details of her death as we know them. She was found by her fiance on January. That was January 26th. Correct. 2011. He said he found her in the kitchen of their home, slumped on the floor against the kitchen cabinets. He said that she had been stabbed at least 20 times including. And this is the thing that gets me, 10 times in the back of her neck. And when he found her, she still had a 10 inch knife lodged in her chest.

[Amy Robach]

Okay. It's not for most folks. You hear that? Okay. Obviously she was murdered. It's just not possible. But then they started adding, let's. Before we even get into the stab wounds, I mean there was no, what is it, no sign of forced entry and the place was locked. There was no sign of a struggle. There was no evidence of anybody else being in that house.

[T.J. Holmes]

And there was no defensive wounds. Yeah. When you say no sign of struggle. But to have no defensive wounds and we'll get into what the one of the medical examiner said that they described the stab wounds as hesitation wounds. So this is what all led to their conclusion ultimately that there was a suicide, not a homicide. Because the door, I would say a big part of this was that the door was locked from the inside. But this is all according to the fiance. And the investigators did a, you know, did their due diligence and of course he would have been someone they would have wanted to talk to immediately because we know from crime stories if someone's murdered, you look to the person who purports to love them.

[Amy Robach]

Now this is one that look, we deal with and cover a lot and watch a lot when it comes to crime, always, no matter where he was on planet Earth, if his fiance ends up dead, he is in that moment suspect number one, no matter where he is. You add to that you're the one that reports that she has died. You're nobody else is around and you found her. Oh, now they're really zeroing in on you. So robes for them to say he is been cleared then, you know, they gave him all kinds of scrutiny.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes. Unless there was corruption involved at some level like that. You know, that's. Those are some of the questions. Right.

[Amy Robach]

The question is a cover up to possibly cover this guy.

[T.J. Holmes]

Who knows? Yeah, I mean, so here's what's changed because something did change in January of 2025. So exactly one year ago, Dr. Marlon Osborne, that is the pathologist who performed the original autopsy on Ellen, he said in a sworn statement this Ellen's manner of death should be designated as something other than suicide. A little ambiguous, but certainly a reverse from what he had said originally. Now a month after this. So In February of 2025, the City of Philadelphia reached a settlement with the Greenbergs. And so they paid the family $650,000 and agreed to an independent review of their daughter's autopsy. And in exchange, the family, the parents, dropped their lawsuit against the city. So that all happened In February of 2025, following this sworn statement by the original pathologist who conducted the original autopsy. Does that move the needle for you in any way?

[Amy Robach]

No, I. It's one of those things you. If there is a medical professional, I need to hear the answer as to why. If there is a medical professional who looks at a case in which somebody was stabbed 20 times and said it was a suicide, I obviously have another question and some of them have been answered. I haven't done a deep enough dive, done a deep enough dive into this case. But you you hear another. I think it's just impossible. Robes for a medical professional. You have to. They know something. I don't know.

[T.J. Holmes]

Right.

[Amy Robach]

To call this a. So you. How are you going to convince me it's a suicide? She got stabbed 20 times. There is where. I guess some context is needed for what a stab wound is and how it's classified and how it's characterized. Sometimes I hear stab wounds. We generally think we know what that means. But like you said, some of these were. They said they considered them to be attempts practices, hesitation wounds. That's a. That's still a tough sell.

[T.J. Holmes]

It's so tough.

[Amy Robach]

Certainly to the family.

[T.J. Holmes]

Here's another wrinkle. So in 2024 Pennsylvania. A court in Pennsylvania acknowledged serious flaws in the investigation in into her death. It dismissed a lawsuit that the parents brought to try and change her death certificate. They wanted to change the death certificate from suicide to homicide. So they sued Pennsylvania. The court refused to change the death certificate, but in their ruling acknowledged that the investigation. So they said the court wrote that it was acutely aware of the deeply flawed investigation conducted by city police, prosecutors and the city of Philadelphia medical examiner's office. That's a serious charge that a court in Pennsylvania put into a court filing about this investigation. That that's significant.

[Amy Robach]

And I guess this is where. And this is why it's corruption coming into the. I don't have. I don't know the motivation for the corruption.

[T.J. Holmes]

I don't either.

[Amy Robach]

You're covering your own butts because you screwed up and now you have to double and triple and quadruple down on making sure nothing comes out. I don't know. Or it could be an awful, unfortunate mess in which this young lady was troubled in some way that people didn't realize she didn't know any other way out. I haven't seen any other explanation. Have you seen a lot about her? I mean, her family and friends, what they say her state was? Her mental state was.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes. So there was some information, and we can get into it, that she may have been suffering from anxiety at the time of her death and that anxiety came from her work as a teacher. Look, we don't know what she was going through. And a lot of times people don't share with close family and friends their actual problems or how they're truly suffering. But it is a strange way. I think it's fair to say everybody can agree that it is a very bizarre way to die by suicide. You can't question that after the fact. But it just seems like especially for me, the stabs on the back, back of your neck, it's almost like suicide made to look like homicide. I can't get my head around choosing that method.

[Amy Robach]

I didn't look and I haven't heard of a case of anything like this possibly before. But that's just 20 stabilize and then some of the number I think later on they came back and added so we missed some wounds and that so there was 20 plus in the back of the neck. Now that we're concentrated, there wasn't. If she, I don't know, robes, you make the argument if she was being attacked and stabbed, she didn't raise a finger to fight back. And if she was incapacitated immediately, why stab her in the back of the neck, roll her over, stab her in the chest. What'd you say she was found how.

[T.J. Holmes]

Sitting with her legs splayed out, slumped over with a knife in her chest up against kitchen cabinets. It is tough. All right, when we come back, we are going to tell you the only public statement her fiance has ever made over these past 15 years publicly, and he made it actually fairly recently to a news organization will tell you what he had to say about the mysterious death of his fiance. Foreign.

[Ed Helms]

Hey, everyone, it's Ed Helms and I'm.

[Amy Robach]

Kal Penn and we are the hosts of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast, I am talking to film and TV critic, radio and podcast host and Harry Potter super fan Rhianna Dillon to discuss Audible's full cast adaptation of of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. What moments in this audiobook capture the feeling of the magical world best for you or just stood out the most?

[T.J. Holmes]

I always loved reading about the Quidditch matches and I think the audio really gets it because it just plunges you right into the stands. You have the crowd sounds like all around you. It is surround sound, especially if you're listening in headphones.

[Ed Helms]

Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is.

[Ed Helms]

You can decide who takes home the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the Year by voting at iHeartPodcastAwards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at iHeartPodcastAwards dot com Audible is.

[T.J. Holmes]

A proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen, sign up for a free [e-mail] talking.

[American Lung Association / AD Council PSA Voice]

To your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard. Getting them to listen to hot gossip is easy. So here's some drama you could share with your kid. Dude, did you hear about Cassie and Jake?

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[American Lung Association / AD Council PSA Voice]

But did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible lung damage and nicotine affects brain development? Nuh. You don't need to gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping. So if you want to get tips on when and how to talk to your kids, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council.

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

You can accomplish a lot in a decade. You could earn a bachelor's degree and a master's degree back to back. You could compete in two separate consecutive Olympic Games. Well, we made my favorite murder. I spent 10 years of true crime, 10 years of conversation and 100 years of swearing. Here's the thing, everyone, politeness. Go yourself. As when someone sneezes. From now on, we have something for everyone. Advice, support, and a safe space for your feelings. This is terrible. Keep going. Triflers need not apply. Stay out of the forest. You're in a cult. Call your dad. Don't worry, it gets worse. Toxic masculinity ruins the party again. I said, dad, what the hell? What are we gonna do? And he goes, I don't. What the hell? I don't know. We're gonna sally forth. We're gonna sally forth. You guys stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[Amy Robach]

A cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye.

[T.J. Holmes]

Welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ where we are talking about a mysterious death that happened in 2011. 27 year old Ellen Greenberg. Her death was ruled a suicide. However, she was found in her Philadelphia kitchen with a 10 inch knife in her chest. But more than 20 other stab wounds, including almost a dozen in the back of her neck. Her parents have never believed that she died by suicide. And now late this week we got word that the U.S. attorney's office is opening an inquiry in into whether or not her death was properly investigated. So they're not necessarily saying, hey, we're here to find out how she died and to potentially switch it to homicide from suicide. But they are acknowledging, and a court last year also acknowledged that it appears there were problems and perhaps bigger issues when it came to how police and the Medical examiner's office actually investigated this case.

[Amy Robach]

And for that, that represents hope for the family of some kind that they haven't had for coming up on 20 years. Right. It's been 15 years. And to them, they still don't know how their daughter died. And somebody is running around out there who killed her.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes, yes. And that is what they believe. Now, we should point out you said this earlier, before the break, the fiance, Sam Goldberg, was never a suspect. He has never been charged. He is the one who found her. He said he, he told investigators that the lock on the door was latched from the inside, but he has never again been accused of any wrongdoing. This past fall, in September, Hulu did a whole documentary on her death, and they did raise questions about his actions, including a 911 call where apparently he told dispatchers that his fiance had fallen on a knife. So he has obviously been cleared. I'm sure he's been grilled, investigated everything. You might imagine, if you're the fiance who finds your partner in this condition and you're the only one who saw her and you're the only. And you're the one who found her, of course you're going to be scrutinized significantly by police.

[Amy Robach]

Imagine the detectives that got that call, oh, she's been stabbed 20 times. The fiance found her. It's going to be a short night. Fellas.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, we got our guy.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, we're good.

[T.J. Holmes]

That's what they would have. I mean, that would be the immediate first drawn conclusion. So. But the only time he has ever spoken publicly was in 2024, and it was to CNN. And here is his quote, and this is really interesting. Mental illness is very real and has many victims. I hope and pray that you never lose someone you love like I did, to a terrible disease and then be accused by ignorant and misinformed people of causing her death.

[Amy Robach]

What year was that?

[T.J. Holmes]

2024.

[Amy Robach]

So not on the same page. The fiance in the family, it doesn't seem as though he's accepted that she killed herself.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes, and he is acknowledging that he has been in some online circles and certainly potentially even with a family considered possibly responsible for her death. He understands what some people are saying, and especially after this Hulu documentary, a lot of people, if you go online, Reddit forums, etc, oh, they think he's absolutely the guy. There are so many conspiracy theorists out there. And look, I get it. I mean, it makes sense. But he is living under that scrutiny. I'm sure he would welcome this investigation if he, he wants his look, he has been cleared officially, but unofficially he hasn't. And so that has to weigh on him.

[Amy Robach]

Wow. Yeah.

[T.J. Holmes]

In so many ways, everywhere he goes throughout his life, people might just question him. And that has to be a terrible cloud to live under.

[Amy Robach]

That's tough. That's tough. But what an awful, awful story. I mean, you made me want to look into this one a little more and see some of those reports and see some. Like you said, her family, their team put out their own draw up drawings of you. Showed it to me. Like, holy hell, this is how she was stabbed.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, if you look, you can look, you can Google it pretty easily. But they had their own private investigator actually put knives where all of her stab wounds were and the depth at which the blade went in. And it was this independent investigator's opinion that especially a couple of the knife wounds, the stab wounds that went into the back of her neck, would have incapacitated her, that they went in deep enough where it would have hit her brain. She would not have been able to then give that final stab in the chest where the knife ended up. So they are absolutely of the belief that she was murdered and not. She did not die by suicide. Look, we may never know, but this new inquiry could give us some answers or at least some insight into the process. And we will be sure to follow this story and give you any updates as they become available. But in the meantime, thank you so much for listening to us. As always, guys. I'm Amy Robach alongside T.J. holmes. We will talk to you soon.

[Amy Robach]

And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is.

[Ed Helms]

You can decide who takes home the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the Year by VOT starting at iheartpodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at iheartpodcastawards.Com Audible is a proud.

[T.J. Holmes]

Sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free [e-mail].

[Ed Helms]

Hey, everyone, it's Ed Helms and I'm Cal.

[Amy Robach]

Penn and we are the hosts of earsay, the Audible and I Heart Audio.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast, I am talking to film and TV critic, radio and podcast host and Harry Potter super fan Rihanna Dillon to discuss Audible's full cast adaptation of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. What moments in this audiobook capture the feeling of the magical world best for you or just stood out the most.

[T.J. Holmes]

I always loved reading about the Quidditch matches and so. And I think the audio really gets it because it just plunges you right into the stands. You have the crowd sound like all around you. It is surround sound, especially if you're listening in headphones.

[Ed Helms]

Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audio Book Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

Back in 2016, we said, let's do a podcast. Little did we know it would last 10 years. I mean, but here's the thing. Stay out of the forest. You're in a cult. Call your dad. This is terrible. You guys stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[Amy Robach]

A cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

My favorite Murder turns 10 this month. Join us for new episodes every Thursday on the Exactly Right network. Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye.

[T.J. Holmes]

The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you.

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

Want your parents to hear?

[T.J. Holmes]

I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success.

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

Listening is a form of love.

[T.J. Holmes]

Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well [e-mail] that's sounditouttogether.org brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. This is an iHeart podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff or Georgia Hardstark]

Guaranteed Human.