The Brian Walshe Trial: “A Hacksaw With Red Brown Stains”

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "The Brian Walshe Trial: 'A Hacksaw With Red Brown Stains'"

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode Date: December 3, 2025
Hosts: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes

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Overview

Day three of the Brian Walshe trial takes center stage in this episode, with Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes unpacking the powerful, graphic testimony that emerged. The hosts guide listeners through the critical evidence, memorable moments, and strategic legal maneuvers, especially the defense’s efforts to instill reasonable doubt. The episode leans into the emotional and psychological impact of the evidence presented—particularly graphic images and forensic terminology—and closes with a breakdown of a surprise procedural debate that could affect the trial’s outcome.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Graphic Evidence and Its Impact

• Juror Experience: Amy notes the lack of a body or autopsy in this case, making the weapon photos more impactful.
  • Quote: “They just showed the hammer, the wire snips, the hatchet, the hacksaw with red brown stains. If you were listening to this trial today, you kept hearing those three words: with red brown stains.” (Amy, 03:24)
• Repetition of Phrasing: The phrase “red brown stains” is repeatedly used, almost to the point of being “comical” but clearly aiming to etch the association to blood in jurors’ minds.
  • Quote: “If you were listening to this trial today, you kept hearing those three words with red brown stains. It almost became comical...” (Amy, 03:18)

2. Witness Testimony & The Defense’s Strategy

• State Trooper Testimony: Focused on Brian Walshe’s online search history, especially after the absence of cross-examination for some witnesses (housekeeping testimony, Uber drivers).
  • Quote: “The first witness, Robes, was the guy...who handled all the Google searches.” (TJ, 04:39)
• Unusual Search Queries: Defense seeks to contextualize body-disposal related searches as potentially consistent with a panicked accidental death, not a planned murder.
  • Searches cited: “body disposal options,” “cool ways to be buried,” “above ground burial options,” with “murder” only appearing six hours later.
  • Quote: “So the first reference to murder was actually six hours into his searches.” (Amy, 06:50)
• Defense Argument: Sparse use of the word “murder” is presented as possible evidence of a lack of premeditation or intent.
  • Quote: “The defense attorney was making an argument that it wasn’t top of mind...the timeline could make somebody go, oh, okay.” (TJ, 07:12)

3. Counterpoints and Reasonable Doubt

• Alternative Explanations: Amy offers that the delayed “murder” search could be a product of psychological denial or gradual admission to oneself—rather than innocence.
  • Quote: “...when it kind of everything sunk in, he was maybe almost owning it in his mind...that could be another argument.” (Amy, 07:51)
• The Single Juror Standard: Hosts reference the importance of persuading just one juror for a “not guilty” verdict.
  • Quote: “You just have to somehow put a little bit of doubt, enough doubt in one juror and you’ve got your not guilty verdict.” (Amy, 08:54)

4. Motive, Divorce, and Financial Behavior

• Patterns in Web Activity: Contradictory activities, such as searches on divorce and luxury purchases (Porsche, Blue Nile diamond rings), are scrutinized.
  • Observed: Simultaneous searches for divorce, financial transactions, online diamond ring browsing.
  • Defense argument: He was planning for a future (including with his wife), undermining a direct motive for murder.
  • Quote: “If this is someone who’s trying to divorce his wife or is considering divorce, why would he be shopping for diamond rings?” (Amy, 10:26)
• Prosecution’s Divorce Angle: Limited time spent on divorce-focused searches is noted; hosts challenge the weight prosecutors put on this as motive.
  • Quote: “Divorce searches took up...a 21 minute span. Did anything related to divorce come up? That means he wasn’t obsessing over it.” (TJ, 11:33)
  • Quote: “And one of them was a celebrity divorce too, right? Katie Holmes.” (Amy, 11:44)

5. Forensic Testimony & Crime Lab Evidence

• Crime Lab Specialist’s Concession: While bags with blood-stained items were shown, the forensic expert conceded that the stains could have appeared after the bags were discarded—offering a technical out for the defense.
  • Quote: “I cannot tell you that those stains were there before they were disposed of.” (Crime Lab Specialist via Amy, 13:15)
  • Quote: “It was. To hear someone admit, I can just tell you what’s on it. I got no idea where it came.” (TJ, 14:09)

6. Procedural Surprise: The Guilty Plea Debate

• Jury Dismissed Early: Judge excused the jury to debate a legal procedural issue—a pivotal moment.
• Debate's Crux: Should the jury hear that Walshe already pled guilty to separate charges (dismembering, disposing, misleading police)?
• Strategic Implications: The admission could favor defense (shows willingness to admit secondary guilt but not murder) or risk prejudicing the jury.
  • Quote: “...the most important thing for the judge right now is to make sure whatever she decides doesn’t end up being used as an excuse for a mistrial.” (Amy, 20:22)
  • Quote: “Because she says, this jury absolutely is prohibited from considering those guilty pleas in determining this verdict. So she says, if I let them hear about it, I’m the one inviting them to be prejudicial.” (TJ, 21:17)
• Hosts’ Analysis: Both Amy and TJ hash out possible reasons for these legal strategies and their effects on a reasonable jury.
  • Quote: “I had never heard of someone pleading guilty to something fairly significant but not pleading guilty to something that would kind of go along with the crime.” (Amy, 20:22)
  • Quote: “They know it’s gonna get thrown out...they do it anyway because they want the jury to hear it.” (Amy, 22:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you were listening to this trial today, you kept hearing those three words with red brown stains. It almost became comical…”
  (Amy Robach, 03:18)

• “The first reference to murder was actually six hours into his searches.”
  (Amy Robach, 06:50)

• “You just have to somehow put a little bit of doubt, enough doubt in one juror and you’ve got your not guilty verdict.”
  (Amy Robach, 08:54)

• “Divorce searches took up...a 21 minute span. Did anything related to divorce come up? That means he wasn’t obsessing over it.”
  (TJ Holmes, 11:33)

• “I cannot tell you that those stains were there before they were disposed of.”
  (Crime Lab Specialist via Amy Robach, 13:15)

• “I had never heard of someone pleading guilty to something fairly significant but not pleading guilty to something that would kind of go along with the crime.”
  (Amy Robach, 20:22)

• “Because she says, this jury absolutely is prohibited from considering those guilty pleas in determining this verdict. So she says, if I let them hear about it, I’m the one inviting them to be prejudicial.”
  (TJ Holmes, 21:17)

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Timeline & Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:42] - Episode begins with recap of the trial’s day and graphic evidence presented
• [03:10–04:23] - Amy reflects on the emotional impact of forensic imagery and key evidence
• [04:23–05:39] - Details of witness testimony regarding digital forensics and search histories
• [06:20–08:21] - Defense’s arguments about the timing and wording of incriminating searches
• [09:19–11:44] - Analysis of financial behavior, divorce searches, and diamond ring purchases
• [12:20–14:27] - Forensic evidence and crime lab testimony (bags with “red brown stains”)
• [14:27–14:52] - Day ends early; teaser of major procedural twist
• [18:25–22:43] - The debate over revealing Brian Walshe’s previous guilty pleas to the jury

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Takeaways

• Graphic evidence and the repetitive phrasing in court were psychologically significant for jurors.
• The defense made notable, creative use of gaps or ambiguities in digital and forensic evidence to inject reasonable doubt.
• The prosecution’s reliance on motive (via divorce angle) was somewhat undermined by the actual breadth of Brian Walshe’s web activity.
• A critical procedural decision—whether jurors should know about Walshe’s admitted guilty pleas on lesser charges—could sway the trial’s outcome.
• The hosts blend legal analysis with personal reflection, making the high-stakes trial accessible while exposing the subtle chess match of courtroom drama.

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Useful for:
Anyone seeking an in-depth, dynamic recap of the Brian Walshe trial’s third day—especially those interested in true crime, legal strategy, or the practical power of digital and forensic evidence in modern courtrooms.

Transcript

[Amy Robach]

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[TJ Holmes]

Hey there folks. It is Wednesday, December 3rd, day three of the Brian Walsh trial. Frankly got a little graphic. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes, we. There were exhibits today that I guess gives a kind of a. Gave kind of a graphic idea of a violent, potentially violent death.

[Amy Robach]

That's right.

[TJ Holmes]

That she had. And I think you. You said just a moment ago that, that gotcha today.

[Amy Robach]

It did. Because in this case, we don't have a body, they don't have an autopsy. Sometimes jurors are shown autopsy photos and certainly look at autopsy reports, so they have to take in a lot. In this case, there is none of that. So it was interesting to me the impact it had just seeing what the jurors saw. And they were just photos. Photos of weapons that were recovered. And normally they're considered tools, but tools that were turned into weapons that were wrapped up in trash bags found in those dumpsters near Brian Walsh's mom's home. And they just showed the hammer, the wire snips, the hatchet, the hacksaw with red brown stains. If you were listening to this trial today, you kept hearing those three words with red brown stains. It almost became comical because that's how much they were repeating all of the items they found with this substance, which obviously you think is blood, but it's almost as if they were like etching it in the jurors minds.

[TJ Holmes]

Well, yeah, that was repeated quite a bit today. And every time it was said, it was being shown in graphic detail in some way on the screen. But the day got going today and they had several witnesses and, and frankly, several of these. The defense didn't even ask a single question of cross examination. It wasn't. I mean, it was housekeeping for the most part, making sure they determined okay, she did travel when and where, and did she take an Uber and she didn't. Right. They had a couple of Uber drivers and whatnot up there. This was all just to establish that she wasn't out of town, that she didn't leave town and. And whatnot, her whereabouts. So there was a lot of housekeeping in that. But the first witness, Robes, was the guy who was testifying yesterday, the state trooper who handled all the Google searches. Yeah, all that stuff. Now, he started making some points today. The, the defense attorney that had me sit up, had me perk up a little bit, and I couldn't believe he had some answers that maybe had the.

[Amy Robach]

Jurors thinking, yes, because he wanted the state trooper to read some of the searches that were left out of testimony.

[TJ Holmes]

I didn't realize there were so many.

[Amy Robach]

You know, there are so many other searches. So he asked him to Read some of the other searches that were found on Brian Walsh's computer. Like body disposal options, cool ways to be buried, above ground, burial options.

[TJ Holmes]

Now, what does that say to you?

[Amy Robach]

So that says that if those were the only searches, then I would be more inclined to believe what Brian Walsh's attorneys are trying to sell, that he panicked after his wife suddenly and inexplicably died. So, yes, if those were the only searches, that would back up his story for sure.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay, so then what if.

The next part of that, and I know the part that bothers, is he used the word murder in a search? His attorney today, the defense attorney, is pointing out just how little he used it and when he used it as being a big deal. Now, I couldn't imagine that I would listen to that, but I gave that argument some thought. Why did he do it so little? And why did he do it so late?

[Amy Robach]

Yes. So the first reference to murder was actually six hours into his searches. So he was using all sorts of other different ways to describe. Like we just referenced body disposal options, cool ways to be buried. And it wasn't until six hours later that he did that first search that had murder.

[TJ Holmes]

What do you make of that? What can we possibly make of that? If he was panicked, if he was all of these things, and as soon as he started searching, it was only about disposal, it was only about dismember, what all that other stuff, and he didn't think to type in murder until six plus hours later. I think the defense attorney was making an argument that it wasn't top of mind. He's making the point that he was trying to get different results through a bunch of searches. And man, the timeline could make somebody go, oh, okay.

[Amy Robach]

I would also say that the other side of that could be that perhaps he was in such a fog and trying to figure out how to deal with the issue at hand, which was a body. And then when it kind of everything sunk in, he was maybe almost owning it in his mind, almost acknowledging maybe something he wasn't really trying or wasn't thinking about, which is the fact that he just murdered his wife. And so maybe it became something he was almost owning or accepting over time. That could be another argument.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay, there is an argument. So if, if that is a possibility, is it also a possibility that he did not kill her?

Right, if we want to be open to the possibility. You just gave. What's more likely? I don't know. But in that juror we talked to the attorney the other day and she leaned into the camera Talking to us and said she put her finger up one. I just need one on that jury.

[Amy Robach]

Well, I wouldn't be the one.

That's what I can tell you about that. And I agree. I totally get it. You just have to somehow put a little bit of doubt, enough doubt in one juror and you've got your not guilty verdict.

[TJ Holmes]

I'm saying when I first heard the search, how do you dispose of a body after a murder? I like he's done this is what can you argue with that? And they found an argument that's not out of this world.

[Amy Robach]

It was creative, I'll give them that. The other thing that was really interesting to me was in cross examination, the defense attorney also had the state trooper acknowledge because they had testified, he had testified earlier to the fact that Brian Walsh had been on divorce websites and had spent time searching for divorce related searches. But on that very same day they also.

He testified that Brian Walsh went to his bank several times to check basically who knows what but checking accounts. Then went to go look at some Porsches for sale. Okay. But then also went to a diamond website where you go to Blue Nile diamond rings. Yes, blue nile.com. so if this is someone who's trying to divorce his wife or is considering divorce, why would he be shopping for diamond rings? Why would, if he was worried about, you know, the future, why would he be looking at a Porsche?

So that was a little interesting to me, the diamond, the diamond website thing. Because he's not been accused of having someone on the side. He's not accused of having a girlfriend.

[TJ Holmes]

In any way, shape or form would have been said.

[Amy Robach]

Of course it would have.

[TJ Holmes]

So now what do you make?

[Amy Robach]

I thought that was the one thing that, that piqued my interest today.

[TJ Holmes]

So the, what the, the point they're trying to make is, is take away the idea of a motive that he was trying to end his marriage or wanted his to get his wife out of the way. He was planning for the future. And this was at a time when he didn't know anybody that was going to see his Internet searches.

What do you make of that?

[Amy Robach]

I think it's interesting. I think there's something there.

[TJ Holmes]

There's something there. Divorce. Now we've been hearing that was the other thing. I think the prosecution was pointing out searches that included divorce. They made it sound like this dude was looking for the best dates to divorce. Right? That was one of the searches.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[TJ Holmes]

Turns out.

Divorce searches took up in the 15 days of data that they reviewed. 15 days.

21 minutes only. A 21 minute span. Did anything related to divorce come up? That means he wasn't obsessing over it. He wasn't doing a whole lot, whatever it came up.

[Amy Robach]

And one of them was a celebrity divorce too, right? Katie Holmes. It was something about Katie Holmes divorce. So that also made the point like, okay, he wasn't actually looking up how to get divorced or you know, when's a good time to get divorced or how expensive his divorce. Part of that was looking up a celebrity's divorce. So that also was good defense work.

[TJ Holmes]

Right. It just made you think. It's so interesting when these guys, when you think that really after day two, after day two, you and I both sat in guilty.

[Amy Robach]

Why are we even watching this trial?

[TJ Holmes]

You did. And now here we are. Now the, the, I guess the point rose when it got, I said graphic at the top. That was in the crime lab specialist. He was the one that handled the, the bags that were recovered from the dumpster. I didn't realize there were this many bags that they had recovered, but 10 or so. And they show pictures of the bags, pictures of the contents and I guess a lot of it robes. And they kept using the same phrase to describe it had particular stains on it that they kept pointing out.

[Amy Robach]

That's right. And so it was difficult to hear that back and forth. But we're talking robes, towels, and as we mentioned, some of the equipment that they believe was used in either dismembering her or in murdering her. But I do think once again that Brian Walsh's attorney made a pretty decent, as much as you could.

Point when he cross examined the crime lab specialist after he talked. Because they kept saying red brown stains, red brown stains. You're seeing pictures and images of clearly blood soaked materials that were all in these bags that we now know were dumped there by Brian Walsh. But his attorney said, can you tell me that all of these items, could they not have been stained after they were thrown out, after they were already in this dumpster? The condition of the bags that were ripped and all of this. And he, the crime lab specialist said, I cannot, I cannot tell you that those stains were there before they were disposed of. So I thought that was pretty good lawyering right there.

[TJ Holmes]

It wasn't quite a paramasin moment. No, but.

It was. To hear someone admit, I can just tell you what's on it. I got no idea where it came.

[Amy Robach]

From and when it got there and how it got there.

[TJ Holmes]

I mean he's just, he's doing the.

[Amy Robach]

Best he can with what he has. He's working with what he has with what he has.

[TJ Holmes]

But folks, we had a little surprise ending to the day. The judge let the jury go home early, about a half hour early. And they had a very important issue to take up with the jury out of the room. An issue that could help decide the case. We'll explain. Stay here.

[Amy Robach]

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[TJ Holmes]

All right, welcome back. We continue. Day three of the Brian Walsh trial is in the books. Just mentioned a moment ago that the jury got to go home a little early this. The judge has kept things really, really on time so far, trying to make the best use of the time, but she let them go. A little surprised. We didn't know what was going on. There were a. Did you know there were a bunch of sidebars?

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[TJ Holmes]

This afternoon, right?

[Amy Robach]

Yes. All of a sudden, because we're watching it, we're kind of doing other things, mostly listening to it, and all of a sudden it would go completely silent. And then either they'd either have the back of Brian Walsh's head or the ceiling fan. But yes, there were many, many moments.

[TJ Holmes]

Where they were having sideb with the sidebars. Maybe this was part of the issue, but this is a big one. As folks know, he is on trial right now for murder for murdering his wife. He was also charged with two other things for dismembering the body, disposing of.

[Amy Robach]

It, and misleading police.

[TJ Holmes]

Misleading police. All right. He, he said, the cop to that said guilty. He did that right when this trial was starting. The question now for the judge to decide is if she's going to let this jury hear that he pled guilty to those charges. Sound like she didn't know what she's gonna do.

[Amy Robach]

No, and I think it's interesting, too, because here's the deal. The jury is hearing all about the implication of dismemberment, and they also already heard Brian Walsh's attorney say he misled authorities, he lied to police. So I wonder, I would think the defense would want the guilty pleas in, because you would then think the jury could infer, well, wow, he admitted that and he's now not admitting the murder. Well, that's interesting. So, wow. But I'm not sure who is fighting what.

Because I know probably the most important thing for the judge right now is to make sure whatever she decides doesn't end up being used as an excuse for a mistrial. So it's confusing. I had never heard of someone pleading guilty to something fairly significant but not pleading guilty to something that would kind of go along with the crime.

[TJ Holmes]

The two go together, right? He's saying they don't. And to your point, I didn't think about that as a strategy. I'm thinking about that as a juror. Why would anybody do that? Like, why would someone admit to that? And why not just try to get off from all of it if that's the case?

[Amy Robach]

Because he's so obviously linked to it. When you look at the searches, when you look at the surveillance video.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah, you couldn't get around nothing else you can do.

[Amy Robach]

If he could have, he would have tried, I'm sure. So at least hearing him admit that, I feel like works in his favor. But I don't know.

[TJ Holmes]

Again, no legal expert here when way the judge was saying it to them. So, yeah, it must be the prosecution that wants it in, because she was saying to them, you have to show me what the relevance is to your case, why this wouldn't be prejudicial. Because she says, this jury absolutely is prohibited from considering those guilty pleas in determining this verdict. So she says, if I let them hear about it, I'm the one inviting them to be prejudicial.

[Amy Robach]

Right. Because yes, you can say, well, just this is obviously why we see lawyers say things or ask things that they know are going to be objected to and perhaps sustained, but it doesn't matter because the jury heard it anyway. So once the jury hears something, you can instruct them not to consider it, can't unravel it. Obviously they can't unhear it. And so this is something that we see happen all the time in courtrooms. They know it's gonna get thrown out. They know it's going to be sustained, and they do it anyway because they want the jury to hear it.

[TJ Holmes]

And they don't mind being scolded by the judge a little bit in that one moment for the sake of saying whatever out loud.

[Amy Robach]

Exactly. So, you know, if that is the case, that a jury cannot consider punishment when considering this verdict, then I couldn't see why the judge would allow those guilty pleas to be known to the jurors. That wouldn't make any sense.

[TJ Holmes]

That was the big debate as they were wrapping up today. Day three, I believe she said the schedule they will continue as normal tomorrow. But then day five, I guess it would be on Friday. She's anticipating the the jury's gonna have a shorter day, be done at one o'. Clock. Can't remember what she said.

[Amy Robach]

Well, it's Friday.

[TJ Holmes]

I don't think that was it. It was something else going on. But that's the schedule. We will keep a very close eye, folks. We always appreciate you spending some time with us. I'm TJ Holmes. On behalf of my dear Amy Robach, we'll talk to you all soon.

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[Ed Helms]

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[Grainger Advertiser]

Attempt to sabotage our movement.

[Ed Helms]

Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kal Penn]

Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another.

[Ed Helms]

It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other.

[Kal Penn]

I'm Elliot Khani, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope.

[GEHA Advertiser]

I've always wanted us to have therapy, so this is such a beautiful opportunity.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to season two of Family Therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

You know what your customers are doing right this second? The exact same thing. You are listening to me, which, let's be honest, is kind of fl flattering. But my point is, ads on iHeartRadio actually get heard in the car, at the gym, on the couch while people are walking their dogs. Who's a good boy? Who's a good boy? You're a good boy.

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

That's right, dude.

[TJ Holmes]

You're a good.

[Ed Helms]

So why not make the next ad about you? Get started today. Call 844-844-IHEART or go to iheartadvertising.com that's 844-844, iheart or iheartadvertising.com this is an iheart podcast.

[Amy Robach]

Guaranteed Human.