The Brian Walshe Trial Day 9: “I Will Not Testify” And With That, The Defense Rests

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present

Episode: The Brian Walshe Trial Day 9: “I Will Not Testify” And With That, The Defense Rests

Date: December 11, 2025
Hosts: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

This episode provides a detailed analysis and real-time reaction to a pivotal day in the Brian Walshe trial: the defense officially rested their case, and Walshe himself declined to testify. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes break down the legal and psychological implications of this decision, including its impact on the jury, the defense strategy, lingering questions about motive, and broader reflections on high-stakes trials. The hosts weave in their personal reactions while leveraging legal insights and referencing similar cases, setting the stage for upcoming jury deliberations and closing arguments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brian Walshe Declines to Testify

• T.J. Holmes: Opens the episode with the big news: “The defense rests in the case of Brian Walsh. And no, he did not take the stand.” (02:42)
• Amy Robach: Expresses curiosity and disappointment that Walshe didn't testify, believing it would have been “beyond fascinating…as a juror, I want to hear from him.” (03:03)
• Both acknowledge how crucial direct testimony would be, especially given the defense’s claim that Walshe discovered his wife’s body and panicked.

Notable Quote:

“If he is innocent of the charges...if he is saying that he found his wife dead...I want to hear how he found her, where he found her, at what time he found her, what condition she was in, what his thoughts were in the moment.”
— Amy Robach (03:15)

2. The Jury’s Perspective on Silence

• Discuss how, while legally a defendant is not required to testify, jurors may naturally wonder about his silence.
• Amy: “As a juror, are you allowed then...to consider it? But as a human, you of course are going to consider why then wouldn't he testify?” (07:42)
• T.J.: Ponders if jurors will “hold it against him” despite the legal instructions. (07:52)

3. The Crucial Importance of Jury Instructions

• Extended discussion about the specific and heated debates over what the jury can be told.
• The hosts highlight how even the use of one word—like “weapon”—can change a jury’s perception.
  • Amy: “If you even use the word weapon, you're insinuating there was a murder, and we're saying there wasn't a murder…those were all posthumous tools used to dismember, which we've already copped to.” (09:53)

4. The Defense’s Surprising Strategy: No Witnesses

• The hosts note that although there were reportedly eight possible defense witnesses, none were called, signaling confidence in the cross-examination of prosecution witnesses.
• The defense used cross to get prosecution witnesses (like the medical examiner and Ana’s friend) to provide testimony beneficial to Walshe.
  • T.J.: “The people they needed to say this was a solid relationship from a guy who was not jealous...they took away money as a motive.” (13:12)
• Recalls similar strategies in recent cases, including the Diddy (Sean Combs) trial.

5. The Missing Motive and Reasonable Doubt

• Both hosts are struck by the lack of clear motive, especially as the prosecution’s theory (money or jealousy) seems unsupported by the evidence.
  • T.J.: “What’s the motive? Money and jealousy…I got questions about those two...I would like one. They don't have to prove one, but I sure would like to know why.” (14:05–14:23)
  • Amy: “Reasonable doubt.” (14:13)
• Construct their own theories but admit they are left guessing and waiting to see how (or if) the prosecution will tie it all together in closing arguments.

Notable Quote:

“Some of the biggest Perry Mason moments happened during opening arguments from the defense...All [the mic drop moments] came from the defense.”
— T.J. Holmes and Amy Robach (15:49–16:03)

6. Broader Reflections on the Speed and Strategy of the Trial

• The trial moved faster than predicted, possibly due to the defense's strategy.
• The hosts compare this to expectations and other high-profile cases, noting how some recent trials have changed their perceptions of what’s “normal” in court.
  • “...if they are comfortable, they would do anything that...help their case. They think they've put on the best case they have without calling a single witness.” (27:33)

7. The Impact of Walshe’s Previous Conviction

• Amy: Notes that Walshe’s prior conviction would make testifying risky, as it would allow the prosecution to attack his character and honesty. (23:27)
• Moreover, the unresolved issue of Ana Walsh’s body would be the “first question” on cross-examination. (24:13)

Notable Quote:

“Where is your wife's body? What did you do with her body? That's it. And there's going to be a row of police officers...waiting to hear. And as soon as he reveals it, they're gonna haul ass out of there and they're gonna find that body immediately.”
— T.J. Holmes (24:13)

8. Data on Defendants Testifying

• Amy: Shares research showing little statistical difference in conviction rates for defendants who testify (77%) vs. those who don’t (72%), suggesting the risk often outweighs the benefit. (25:13)

9. Looking Ahead: Jury Deliberations & Unpredictability

• The hosts wonder at what point the defense made their decisions and if the prosecution was prepared for this turn.
• Curiosity about the makeup of the jury and how external pressures (holidays) might impact deliberations.
  • Amy: “There have still been plenty of shocking outcomes...I actually can say, having sat through it, I know what I feel, but I have no idea what this jury is going to come back with.” (28:54)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Amy Robach on Jury Humanity:
  “Common sense. Human being. This is a case where you'd be like, I kind of need to hear what you say happened.” (09:01)

• T.J. Holmes on Legal Strategy:
  “Generally speaking, most people that go to trial are guilty. That is where we're starting from.” (25:31)

• Comparing Jury Instructions and Lawyering:
  “Those are what make...This is what distinguishes between good lawyers and mediocre lawyers.”
  — Amy Robach (10:07)

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Notable Timestamps

• 02:42 – Episode begins with Brian Walshe’s decision not to testify
• 03:03–03:52 – Amy and TJ discuss why hearing directly from Walshe would've mattered
• 04:50–05:21 – “Where’s the body?” The critical question and why Walshe can’t take the stand
• 09:53–11:12 – In-depth on jury instruction debates and defense strategies
• 13:51 – Discussion shifts to the lack of motive and removal of "money/jealousy" theories
• 15:25–16:03 – “Mic drop” moments all from the defense, not prosecution
• 23:26–24:13 – Impact of Walshe’s prior conviction on the decision not to testify
• 25:13 – Statistical difference of conviction rates for those who do/don’t testify
• 28:54 – Reflections on unpredictability and possible jury outcome

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Tone & Style

The episode blends legal analysis, personal curiosity, and the casual, conversational rapport between Amy and TJ. Their tone is candid and often playful while retaining clear respect for the gravity of the case and the stakes involved.

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Summary

On Day 9 of the Brian Walshe trial, the defense rested without calling any witnesses, and Walshe opted not to testify on his own behalf—a move Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes dissect at length. They contextualize it within trial strategy, juror psychology, and high-profile court history, highlighting that all significant “mic drop” moments have actually favored the defense, not prosecution. With closing arguments on the horizon and ambiguity lingering—especially around motive and key evidence—the episode leaves listeners pondering, along with the hosts, what outcome the jury will reach in this complex and closely watched case.

Transcript

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[T.J. Holmes]

Hey there folks. It is Thursday, December 11th and the defense rests in the case of Brian Walsh. And no, he did not take take the stand. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Rose. Does it sound weird to say that I was I was really hoping he was going to testify.

[Amy Robach]

Oh, it would have been beyond fascinating. From a. From a. Just a personal preference. Oh, my gosh. Yes. I want to hear from him.

[T.J. Holmes]

To be disappointed.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. But you know what? What he is claiming is so out there that I want to hear him. I mean, as a juror. If he. Here's the deal. I hate to say this, but if he is innocent of the charges, I. And he is saying that he found his wife dead. I want to hear how he found her, where he found her, at what time he found her, what condition she was in, what his thoughts were in the moment. You want to believe someone, it would be so nice to believe that he didn't actually kill his wife.

[T.J. Holmes]

I didn't think about that. The way you put it now is that I would give him more of a shot if he would tell me his story.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, that makes sense in this case. What the defense is claiming that he walked in and found his wife dead and he panicked. I could get behind even the gruesomeness of what he did afterwards. In the panic of trying to protect his children from losing both parents, I could maybe get behind it. I would want to hear him.

[T.J. Holmes]

You gotta tell me and hear his story. That's a good point.

[Amy Robach]

It's important for me to buy what he's selling, to believe what his attorneys are suggesting. It would go a long way to hear him explain it, because it doesn't have an explanation right now.

[T.J. Holmes]

Because first question from the prosecutor is what?

[Amy Robach]

Where's the body?

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes. And that is why he can't get on the stand. What did you do with her body?

[Amy Robach]

Which implies to me that he is guilty. Because if finding her body didn't support your claims, then I understand why you don't want them to find the body.

[T.J. Holmes]

Oh, man, you're on fire. Now, here's the thing. Can't you prove how she died? Why don't y' all go dig her up? You'll see that I didn't do anything to her damn robes. You don't fight her. There. That's a good point.

[Amy Robach]

Correct. That's a very simple yes. There's nothing in her system that showed I poisoned her. There's no marks on what's left of her body. That shows I strangled her. And if you have that level of confidence that you know you did not murder her. And when they do the autopsy and they can't find how. How she died, or perhaps they can look at her heart or look at something that could suggest natural causes, then I would be all for that. But for you not wanting them to find the body and for you not wanting to testify how you found her body, that throws a huge, huge question mark.

[T.J. Holmes]

And that is a huge question that I wonder will come up if it'll come up in the jury room, 12 individuals. I bet it will. But this is where we are now, folks, and we're giving you a. They're putting up this update earlier than we normally would because this is the day that they had in court today. As soon as they got in, the jury was in and out of there. Because they started the day by the defense putting on their case, which happens to be no case robes. And first things first, they had to find out whether or not Brian Walsh was going to testify. And look, for whatever reason, legal experts thought there was still a chance. There was still some chance. Didn't make sense. But sure enough, they confirmed it for us this morning.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, I was reading everywhere, I was reading legal experts saying they thought he needed to testify or had to testify. Obviously, we talked to our gal, Allison Treasle, who is a criminal defense attorney, and she made it very clear, and we know this historically from covering plenty of murder trials, that no defense attorney wants their client to be cross examined, period. So I get it from a criminal defense attorney standpoint, but it was interesting to see a lot of articles and a lot of legal analysts saying kind of maybe what I was just feeling when I heard he wasn't going to testify as a juror, that this would be a case if you were innocent, that you would actually want or even maybe need your client to explain.

[T.J. Holmes]

There is no one who can tell the story. He is the only person on planet Earth who actually knows what happened to Ana Walsh.

[Amy Robach]

As a juror, are you allowed then? I say allowed legally to consider it. But as a human, you of course are going to consider why then wouldn't he testify?

[T.J. Holmes]

You can tell us, my man, we're here now. You can actually get it all out. You know what that is sitting here with you now in that manner, not thinking as a, as a legal matter, this was the right move. Of course, as a juror and sitting here talking to you, it just, it doesn't. You have to tell us the story. You want us to believe you, but you won't talk to us. I get that. And, but I don't know if a juror will. They say, okay, I get it, it's a legal thing, he couldn't. Or will they hold it against him?

[Amy Robach]

And you know what? That is why, what we've Been kind of listening to all morning, the very specific conversations, arguments, discussions about the jury instructions going on right now with the jury not present. Because it matters so much as a juror. Common sense. And as a human. Yeah. If. If no one else can tell the story, and you're claiming you walked in on her and you didn't kill her, that she was just dead. Why wouldn't you tell us? So perhaps what the judge instructs the jury to consider and what she instructs them not to consider will have a huge legal impact because.

[Kalpen Modi]

Yeah.

[Amy Robach]

Common sense. Human being. You're. This is a case where you'd be like, I kind of need to hear what you say happened.

[T.J. Holmes]

And now we think robes the jury. They got to go home. They got the day today, maybe get some Christmas shopping done.

[Amy Robach]

She was saying, rest up.

[T.J. Holmes]

She did.

[Amy Robach]

Because who knows how the jury deliberations are going to go.

[T.J. Holmes]

But we thought, okay, the plan was the final closing arguments were supposed to be tomorrow. But as we sit here and as of this recording, we. We're seeing jury. Them argue over jury instructions. And this is very specific stuff. Look, every little word matters when they go into that jury room, what they can and can't consider. So this is. It's actually fascinating to watch. Most people might call it boring. And what's happening. It is fascinating to watch them argue. You said it about Tipton. These are the. This is where you don't even realize how good an attorney is.

[Amy Robach]

Right. So when it. So we were listening to Brian Walsh's lead attorney, who we've been talking very highly of Larry Tipton today. But just even specifically asking whether or not they can even recognize or instruct the jury about a potential weapon. And his point was, if you're even gonna use the word weapon, you're insinuating there was a murder, and we're saying there wasn't a murder and a knife or a hacksaw or what. Whatever it was, those were all posthumous tools used to dismember, which we've already copped to. So if you even use the word weapon, that can sway the jury. And I thought, wow, we don't. Look, that's not the salacious headlines that we click on or that we talk about or that jurors are instruct. But what's happening behind the scenes and what the jury ultimately gets to hear or consider is so important when it comes to how they decide things. And those are what make like. Like this. These are the moments that I think are what distinguishes between good lawyers and mediocre lawyers, I'm curious, were you surprised when they said the defense rests without calling any witnesses?

[T.J. Holmes]

No, because I'd read so much that they were going to call that they had a plan to call witnesses.

[Amy Robach]

Eight witnesses. Right.

[T.J. Holmes]

That's been the case. So from the very beginning I thought they were going to put someone on the question only was whether or not he was going to get up there. Now I there is a level of confidence they clearly have. They think that either the pro, the prosecution hasn't made its case or the defense feels like they made their case through the prosecution witness. You which one was it that you said? Yeah, they turned the defense turned it into a defense witness.

[Kalpen Modi]

A couple which.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. One of the medical examiner for sure. Yes. And maybe you could even even argued Jem from yesterday and perhaps even her best friend who were both forced to admit that Anna Walsh had told them privately that her husband was not a jealous man and that they told each other everything, that they didn't keep any secrets, that he was aware that she had a crush on the guy who she was having an affair with. All of that takes away from this motive that the prosecution is trying to push for the jury. So. Yes, but I, it's interesting when you don't call the I obviously most notably and recently Diddy in Sean Combs trial, we saw Mark Agnefello and team decide not to call any witnesses to rest its case based on what they were able to do in cross examination with the prosecution witnesses. But it's interesting because this strategy is either strategic confidence where you're actually signaling to the jury, yeah, we don't even have to put up any witnesses because we feel good. It's also about avoiding risk. So who could they put up that would make Brian Walsh look or appear to be innocent? That wouldn't cause them some sort of risk from cross.

[T.J. Holmes]

You know, when you if they were going to put witnesses together, I think they would have called fast out. They would have called Jim, the friend who was there. Because these folks ended up saying things or giving testimony that helped them. To your point, a medical exam they went through. And what would they need somebody to come up and say good things and what a great man he was. No, the people they needed to say this was a solid relationship from a guy who was not jealous. Now what, what's your motive? Money? No, look at this. This is what they did for their kids. Now what they you, they took away money as a motive.

[Amy Robach]

He had just bought her a diamond ring that Jim, that Jim testified to seeing on New Year's Eve, that clearly. That. I guess that was a Christmas gift or something. And we saw that he was searching. Blue Nile. She's got a big, beautiful new diamond ring on her hand on New Year's Eve.

[T.J. Holmes]

What's the motive? Money and jealousy. I got questions about those two. In listening to this trial.

[Amy Robach]

Reasonable doubt.

[T.J. Holmes]

I have a reasonable enough doubt that those two things were a motive. Now we gotta go to what, circumstantial evidence?

[Amy Robach]

There's no body.

[T.J. Holmes]

I actually don't have ropes as I sit here with you. I don't have, as a juror, a motive for why this guy might have killed his wife. I would like one. They don't have to prove one, but I sure would like to know why.

[Amy Robach]

But you have an idea of why? Sitting through this trial, what is your best guess about what his motive would have been?

[T.J. Holmes]

My only theory is that he saw something that set him off on New Year's Eve, that he. We talked about this. He saw something said. Wait a minute. On this night that was so important to our family, which was Christmas. Right? She missed Christmas morning because she was with her lover.

[Amy Robach]

We now know she spent Christmas Eve with her lover. William, fast out.

[T.J. Holmes]

Now, if I find that out on New Year's Eve after this celebration is something like that, he could have snapped. But as a juror, that's my theory. The best I can come up with based on what you all have given me.

[Amy Robach]

I wonder if, in closing arguments, the prosecution is going to finally wrap up this testimony. Because we have been complaining throughout the trial that it didn't feel as though there was a Perry Mason moment or an aha.

[Kalpen Modi]

Or.

[Amy Robach]

Let me put this all together for you, jury, because what you just heard there is exactly why Brian Walsh killed his wife.

[T.J. Holmes]

Nope. Some of the biggest Perry Mason moments happened during opening arguments from the defense. Like the moments where I feel like things. Mic drops or things.

[Amy Robach]

They all came from the defense, all.

[T.J. Holmes]

Came from the fence. You're 100% right. So, folks, this seems, in a trial this high profile, with stakes this high, that the defense wouldn't put on a defense, if you will. But again, we talked about a recent example. We're going to explain why some say, including dear friends of ours, dear legal friends of ours, say there's a sign here, and it's not a good one for the prosecution. Stay here.

[Amy Robach]

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[Amy Robach]

Hello.

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[T.J. Holmes]

All right, we continue now. The Brian Walsh trial was supposed to robes go three plus weeks. We're at the end of week two.

[Amy Robach]

They even said four and a half weeks at one point.

[T.J. Holmes]

It seems like everybody wants to be home for Christmas, but they are wrapping this up. Closing arguments are expected tomorrow. Robes, we, we followed. I can't imagine what we'd be doing. We would just have to do a nonstop loop of podcasts if we had cameras in the courtroom for that Diddy trial.

[Amy Robach]

Oh my. I mean, I don't think we would have done anything this summer. We wouldn't have gone anywhere. We wouldn't have seen friends. We' probably wouldn't have even gone out.

[T.J. Holmes]

To lunch if they had cameras. And we damn near still were locked inside just reading through the people who were in the courtroom.

[Amy Robach]

Do you remember we went to my parents home.

[T.J. Holmes]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Amy Robach]

Right when the Dinny trial was ending. And we didn't know it at the time when we booked the flights, we were going to a Georgia game and we were like, mom, dad, sorry, so sorry. But we're literally going to be on our computers all damn day. And we, but it was exciting. We were watching basically our computers reading through. Yes. Reading through the reporters who were in the courtroom and then reacting to it in real time. It was. But yes, if you had had cameras.

[T.J. Holmes]

In the courtroom, that would have been.

[Amy Robach]

A whole other level.

[T.J. Holmes]

So that's what we have. And we thought this was going to be a longer trial. It is wrapping up already now, jury deliberations, who knows how long those will go? But this thing has absolutely gone quickly. And part of that robes is that the defense decided not to put on any witnesses. Now, I was shocked when that happened at the Diddy trial. And this I was too recent stuff now to where I get it. So in hearing this, I'm not as shocked. But it sends a signal about what the defense feels about its case.

[Amy Robach]

Basically sends the signal that they're confident in especially that before the trial started, they suggested, or at least you have to kind of put out what you think your witness list may or may not be so that the other side can look and prepare. And they had eight people potentially on their witness list. And when they decided not to call anyone, certainly, I mean, I have to say I was shocked at that notion. And I also. I wasn't shocked that he didn't testify though, because.

[T.J. Holmes]

Wait, which one are we talking about?

[Amy Robach]

Well, in this case, in the Brian Walsh case, that's fair. That's fair. In both cases, I was not shocked that either one did not take the stand. And in Brian Walsh's case, his biggest obstacle was that he has this other conviction hanging over his head. And so you've got a prior bad act, first of all, that he has to now be cross examined about which would question his morality, question his ethics question, all of these things that would play into whether or not a juror thought this is a good guy who just accidentally walked in on his wife, who unexplained death scared the hell out of him. But that wouldn't have been good. But obviously, more importantly, it's the body issue. The first question that Brian Walsh would have been asked under cross examination is.

[T.J. Holmes]

Where is your wife's body? What did you do with her body? That's it. And there's going to be a row of police officers in the back of that courtroom waiting to hear. And as soon as he reveals it, they're gonna haul ass out of there and they're gonna find that body immediately. They're gonna take it to a medical examiner's office and determine how that woman died. And because of that, robes, it was impossible. We were holding out hope. But because when our. When Allison brought that up to us.

[Amy Robach]

Okay, that's the first question that he's not going to be willing to answer, which to me would signify guilt. But I digress. I do think it's interesting. This surprised me. I decided to Google basically what the outcomes were of defendants who decided to testify on their own behalf and those who didn't. A Cornell law review. Turns out it doesn't probably even matter that much.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah.

[Amy Robach]

77% of defendants who testified on their own behalf were convicted. 72% of those who did not testify on their own behalf were convicted. So there's a 5% difference between defending yourself on the stand or not.

[T.J. Holmes]

Generally speaking, most people that go to trial are guilty.

[Amy Robach]

So that is where we're starting from.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay.

[Amy Robach]

That is true. For you to get to the level at which you are now in trial, accused of murder, chances are, statistically speaking, yeah, you did. You're probably guilty. There obviously are innocent people who are taken to trial and even convicted for sure. We know that. We talk about it all the time. But, yes, when you get to that point, it's likely you are dealing with trying to say you're not guilty when you actually are.

[T.J. Holmes]

All right, well, folks, as we wrap up here, we are still watching. They continue with jury instructions. They're arguing over jury instructions, Rose. But as we wrap up here, the longer this goes, this is going to push maybe the schedule back. She said she wanted to give them all afternoon. Right. To work on their closing argument. So she wanted to not be doing this this afternoon. We'll see how long this has to go now.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, because, you know, it's. It's curious. Obviously, the defense knew. I wonder at what point they made their decision not to call any witnesses. I wonder at what point Brian Walsh decided not to testify. It's interesting because did he know it from the beginning? Was he basing it off of how the trial went? That's curious. So have they had time to prepare their closing arguments? I'm thinking, was the prosecution anticipating this? Did they have to say, you know, what could be that he doesn't testify, they don't bring anyone up onto the witness stand, and we gotta be ready to go on Friday. I'm curious. I don't know how you hedge your bets. They have been calling up their witnesses and having to be ready for all of that testimony and all of that. Did they even have the correct amount of time to get ready for closing arguments? I don't know how it works, but it seems like now, all of a sudden, it's like, holy crap, we gotta get our shit together by tomorrow. Ruh Roh. But maybe that's just me.

[T.J. Holmes]

You know what you said, if he knew ahead of time, if Brian Walsh maybe knew, and I'll remind you of it, this was always will stand out to me at the end of the ditty trial, we text a friend of ours, former federal prosecutor, and say, hey, what do you make of it that Diddy's defense team didn't call any witnesses. She immediately responded because they think they've already won. So if they are comfortable, they would do anything that they think would help their case. They think they've put on the best case they have without calling a single witness. I am so curious to see what this jury does.

[Amy Robach]

You know what's so interesting is that even when you follow a trial like we have from start to finish, there have still been plenty of shocking outcomes where you, you've seen it and you think, oh, that person's so guilty. And the jury comes back not guilty. It happens all the time. I'm curious. I am so fascinated by how long the jury will deliberate, especially with a Christmas deadline hanging over their heads and Hanukkah as well. So it's like, you know, depending on who, we don't even know. Do we even know what the dream makeup is?

[T.J. Holmes]

I just haven't looked it up.

[Amy Robach]

I haven't either. But it is one of those trials where I actually can say, having sat through it, I know what I feel, but I have no idea what this jury is going to come back with. Do you have a sense of what you think may happen?

[Kalpen Modi]

No.

[T.J. Holmes]

I'll give it some more thought and we'll hop back on here and give you really our opinions of what and we have watched this very closely almost every single moment of testimony in this trial. So we will talk about it more. But folks, we always appreciate you spending some time here with us as well. We continue to update you about this Brian Walsh trial. Again, closing arguments are scheduled now for tomorrow Friday for my dear Amy Robach, I'm T.J. holmes. Talk to y' all soon.

[Amy Robach]

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[Amy Robach]

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[T.J. Holmes]

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[Kalpen Modi]

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[Kalpen Modi]

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[Ed Helms]

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[Kalpen Modi]

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[Amy Robach]

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