The Colts Neck Murders: “He Waited In the Shadows” then “Hunted Them Down”

Summary

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Summary of "The Colts Neck Murders: 'He Waited In the Shadows' then 'Hunted Them Down'"

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Date: January 12, 2026
Episode Focus: The long-awaited trial of Paul Caneiro, accused of the 2018 murders of his brother Keith Caneiro, Keith's wife, and their children, and the subsequent arson of both families' homes in Colts Neck, New Jersey.

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on the explosive first day of opening statements in the highly anticipated Colts Neck murders trial, seven years after the brutal family massacre shocked New Jersey and the nation. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes break down the prosecution and defense cases, explore family dynamics, analyze new and gruesome details revealed in court, and discuss the defense’s surprising strategy of pointing the finger at a third brother, Corey Caneiro. The hosts provide context, court atmosphere, emotional reactions, and insights into the legal maneuvering at play.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Case Overview & Long Delay to Trial

• Background:
  • The murders occurred in 2018: Paul Caneiro is accused of killing his brother Keith, Keith’s wife, and their two young children before setting fire to both the crime scene and his own home to cover it up.
  • The case has been delayed for seven years due to significant pre-trial evidentiary battles (notably over DNA evidence) and setbacks from COVID-19.
  • "It's been seven long years." (Amy, 03:08)
• The Defense:
  • Traditional “Wasn’t me” defense, but with a twist: there’s a third brother, Corey. The defense hints that “it wasn’t me, maybe it was the other brother.” (T.J., 01:49)

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2. Family Dynamics and Emotional Fallout

• The family’s devastation is highlighted—one brother murdered with his whole family, another accused, the third implicated by the defense. Amy notes, “...that has to be like, the most horrific experience to know that one of your sons was brutally murdered and his entire family, your other son is accused of doing it, and that son is accusing your other son.” (Amy, 02:01)
• Close relationships are emphasized, underscoring the shock:
  • “...they were best friends, they were each other's person... it wasn't even like there were two families. It was as if they were all one family in business and in pleasure.” (Amy, 19:44 & 20:58)

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3. Atmosphere & Defendant’s Courtroom Demeanor

• Courtroom Details:
  • T.J. draws comparisons between Caneiro’s subdued, emotional demeanor and the “stoic” faces of other notorious defendants. “He looked, he wasn't stoic... He was clearly emotional.” (Amy, 04:12)
  • Jury members (and even people watching online) are studying his expressions: “...people were going off on his facial expression saying he looks guilty.” (Amy, 05:09)
  • T.J. reflects, “He looked like a human being today... that’s not something I could say for a lot of defendants.” (T.J., 05:53)

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4. Prosecution’s Case & Gruesome Details

• Opening Statements:
  • Prosecutor Nicole Wallace lays out a chilling version of the night:
    • Caneiro “waited in the shadows” (06:39), deliberately cut the generator, waited to ambush his brother, then executed the family—Keith shot six times, the wife shot on the stairs, their 8-year-old niece stabbed 17 times, 11-year-old nephew stabbed as well.
    • “I mean, he had cut power to the house. So in the dark, he is hunting an unsuspecting family.” (T.J., 07:21)
• Harrowing Details:
  • Both children had smoke in their lungs—implying they were alive and suffering as the fire burned around them:
    • “...they were inhaling smoke as they bled to death.” (Amy, 09:22)
    • “Hearing he killed him is one thing. Hearing what they went through... you want somebody to pay for that shit.” (T.J., 09:35)
• Physical Evidence:
  • Bloody clothes with victims’ DNA found in Caneiro’s home, a gun barrel in his backpack, and a timeline constructed from surveillance and phone records.
  • “...just from the opening statement alone from the prosecutor, the evidence is overwhelming.” (Amy, 10:36)

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5. Timeline & Digital Trail

• Surveillance and digital evidence appear devastating:
  • 2:06 am: Caneiro’s Porsche leaves his house.
  • 2:52 am: Power lost at Keith’s house.
  • 3:14–3:18 am: Texts from Keith to Paul about power outage.
  • 3:30 am: 911 call reporting gunshots.
  • 4:08 am: Porsche returns to Paul’s house.
  • 5:02 am: Report of fire at Paul’s home.
  • “That timeline is damaged... Looks bad... It’s his car.” (Amy & T.J., 12:57–13:00)

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6. Motive: Financial Gain & Infighting

• Possible Motive:
  • Prosecution: Paul was the beneficiary of significant life insurance money if Keith’s family died; had business troubles, accused of stealing company funds; confrontation imminent.
  • “His brother had just found out that or claimed that Paul had stolen money from the company... Asking for passwords to get into certain accounts to see what actually happened.” (Amy, 13:26)
• Life Insurance Twist:
  • $3 million policy meant for Keith’s wife and kids, but if all perished, it would go to the two surviving brothers. If Paul convicted, Corey would get everything.

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7. Defense’s Counter-Strategy

• Alternative Suspect Argument:
  • Defense pushes hard that Corey benefits most by Paul’s conviction and Keith’s death:
    • “If he could take one brother out by murder, take out the other brother by framing him for the murder, and then he gets all the life insurance money.” (Amy, 16:20)
• “Too Much Evidence” Tactic:
  • Defense attorney argues that the case is “so obvious it doesn’t make sense” and “nobody would be that stupid” to leave so much incriminating evidence if truly guilty. (Amy, 16:59)
  • T.J. is skeptical: “You’re actually telling me don’t believe the overwhelming evidence against your client because it’s so overwhelming. It can’t be true. Right. Nobody’s as stupid of a criminal.” (T.J., 17:17)
• Critique of Police Investigation:
  • Defense claims investigators “never once looked at Corey Canaro as a possible suspect”—instant tunnel vision on Paul.
  • “They only checked [Paul’s] DNA. They only looked at his text... never once considered [Corey] could have had something to do with it.” (Amy, 17:56)
• Challenging Motive Narrative:
  • Defense plans to show Corey was in worse financial shape than Paul, and thus had more to gain.

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8. Courtroom Drama and Anticipation

• Defense promises a full, detailed case possibly running five to seven weeks, contrasting with recent notorious trials where defense teams barely presented a case.
• The business financials and tedious details are starting, potentially making the proceedings long and boring for jurors.
  • “In a story that is this salacious and this horrific and this headline provoking, that it could immediately be so boring from the beginning.” (Amy, 22:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “That has to be like, the most horrific experience—to know that one of your sons was brutally murdered and his entire family, your other son is accused of doing it, and that son is accusing your other son.”
  — Amy Robach, 02:01

• “He looked like a human being today. Brian Walsh never did.”
  — T.J. Holmes, 05:53

• “He waited in the shadows and then hunted them down.”
  — Prosecutor’s phrase recalled by Amy, 06:39

• “...as horrific as it gets.”
  — Amy Robach, 07:59 (on the murder of the 8-year-old niece)

• “They were inhaling smoke as they bled to death.”
  — Amy Robach, 09:22

• “How can you not want to get back at somebody for that—just as a human being?”
  — T.J. Holmes, 09:35

• “That timeline is damaged... It’s his car.”
  — Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes, 12:57–13:00

• “Nobody is this stupid.”
  — Amy Robach, 17:17 (paraphrasing defense attorney)

• “You give in a juror’s mind, another possibility, another option... somebody else who had just as much to gain from this.”
  — T.J. Holmes, 21:04

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:06 – Case background and long wait for trial.
• 02:21 – Family dynamics and possible living relatives.
• 03:08 – Legal delays: evidence fights and COVID setbacks.
• 04:12–05:09 – Defendant’s demeanor and public reaction.
• 06:39–07:59 – Prosecutor’s opening statement and details of the crime.
• 09:22 – Gruesome revelation: “inhaling smoke as they bled to death.”
• 10:36–11:49 – Physical evidence and timeline reconstruction.
• 13:26–14:07 – Motive: business and insurance money.
• 16:14–17:17 – Defense strategy: blaming Corey, “too obvious” argument.
• 17:56–18:59 – Defense: critique of police investigation.
• 20:06–20:58 – Closeness of the families.
• 22:03–22:56 – Tedious financial testimony in a salacious case.

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Tone & Style Notes

Robach and Holmes maintain a balance of somber horror befitting the subject and conversational, analytical inquiry. They blend empathetic reactions (“I couldn’t eat after hearing that testimony”) with sharply critical observations about legal strategies and evidence. Above all, their tone is one of engaged, informed, and at times deeply disturbed journalism.

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Takeaway

The Colts Neck Murders trial is underway, finally bringing into public view the harrowing, tangled case of family annihilation that’s haunted New Jersey for years. With shocking opening statements, a controversial alternate-suspect defense, and a wealth of gruesome and incriminating evidence, the trial promises to be grueling for both jurors and the closely connected families. Amy and T.J. pledge to follow each key development as this dramatic courtroom saga unfolds over the coming weeks.

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Transcript

[Amy Robach]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[T.J. Holmes]

Guaranteed Human success starts with your drive, and American Public University is here to fuel it.

[Amy Robach]

With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward.

[T.J. Holmes]

Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion, APU's programs are designed for people who never stop.

[Amy Robach]

You bring the fire. Apu will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu.

[Josh Zeman]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught, the answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now listen for on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

[T.J. Holmes]

Hey there, folks. It is Monday, January 12th, and today, finally, after seven years, we just heard opening statements in the case of a man accused of massacring his family and then setting two mansions on fire to cover it up. We've been waiting seven years to hear how he's going to defend himself. And we heard it this morning. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ in robes. He's gonna defend himself with the defense that's well been around since the invention of criminals. Wasn't me.

[Amy Robach]

Wasn't me. And who knew? I guess a lot of people did. There's a third brother. And so it wasn't me. It was possibly the other brother.

[T.J. Holmes]

So to make that clear, one guy is on trial, one brother's on trial for killing another brother, who's black, blaming now the other brother for the death. So all three of this is awful family. I, I actually awful family dynamic right now.

[Amy Robach]

That's an understatement. I was actually imagining I don't know if their parents are alive. But that has to be like, the most horrific experience to know that one of your sons was brutally murdered and his entire family, your other son is accused of doing it, and that son is accusing your other son of doing it.

[T.J. Holmes]

And that is what we found out. That is where we are. A lot of people might remember or recognize the name Paul Canero, certainly in the Northeast. But this is a case that goes back to 2018, when, yes, Paul Canero is accused of going over to his brother's house, which is only about 20 minutes away in a town in New Jersey, shooting His brother then going in the house, shooting his brother's wife, killing her and then killing his 11 year old nephew and 8 year old niece, then setting fire to that house, driving back to his own mansion and setting it on fire to cover it up. That is the crime we're talking about. And robes, remind me, I know you did a deeper dive than I did on the reasons why it has taken so long. It's been seven years since the crime. Why we're only getting to opening statements today.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, well, first of all, there were a lot of pre trial hearings where they were trying to get evidence excluded, namely this DNA evidence which we actually heard his defense defense attorney reference and already set the stage to try and debunk when it came to their presentation of his defense. But that took a lot of time. They also blame Covid. COVID 19 set back this trial significantly. And so between I guess the pre trial hearings and the evidentiary hearings, what was going to be admitted, what wasn't? And then COVID 19, it's just taken seven long years.

[T.J. Holmes]

So we've gotten to this day. So yes, they had jury selection all last week, but opening statements today. Now the prosecutor came out and always, it's always interesting to me and I go back again to Brian Walsh, the case we just covered, to see someone sitting in a courtroom in a V neck sweater and a tie and a button up with glasses on, looking like a guy who might teach fifth grade social studies who was accused of doing the most heinous things ever.

[Amy Robach]

When you just said that, I got chills because I thought it was interesting. In a lot of these courtrooms where there are cameras, you only see the back of the defendant's head, you only see maybe the side you can see when he's whispering to his attorneys. You had a full front angle of his face straight on. And I couldn't take my eyes away from his face because it was emotional. He looked, he looked, he wasn't stoic. I think a lot of times we see these defendants, they're stoic, they're unemotional, they sit there. He was clearly emotional. Listening to the prosecution create and present their opening arguments. And what they were saying was horrific to hear.

[T.J. Holmes]

He almost looked defeated at times and he did looked genuinely emotional at times in the courtroom. And that's not something I could say for a lot of defendants, at least before they hear not guilty.

[Amy Robach]

Don't, don't attorneys, defense attorneys tell their clients not to show emotion because it can be interpreted different ways. The jury is obviously looking at him And I have to say, I was watching. We haven't talked about our experiences. We were watching it together, but I also had it on my computer and I was watching it on YouTube. And, you know, there's a live stream of comments and people were going off on his facial expression saying he looks guilty. And I just kept thinking, I get that. That could be an interpretation. And that is why attorneys tell their clients not to show emotion, because he might be feeling something completely different, but it looked like he had this guilty emotion on his face. That's not necessarily fair to know what was behind the emotion, but people were already jumping to those conclusions.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes, I'm on a jury. I'm sitting here in judgment of you. And I'm also judging how you're sitting there and your facial expressions. That's human nature. You have to. And to your point, why they tell them, give them nothing. Don't be emotional in any way, but he looked like a human being today.

[Amy Robach]

He did.

[T.J. Holmes]

Brian Walsh never did. I mean, he looks the same way, this dude. And that's just the truth. Now, this was a smaller courtroom, given how big of a story this has been. It is kind of a smaller courtroom, I think most of the pew, it didn't seem jam packed necessarily, but the pews were fairly full. That's the scene. Now, Nicole Wallace started the day off. Roe, she's the prosecutor, and she laid out. She went in kind of hard. I don't think it was necessarily for shock value. These are the facts of the case, but she kind of laid out how the crime unfold.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, she talked about how he waited in the shadows and then hunted them down. She used those types of phrases to describe what she claims he did leading up to the murders, the murders of his brother, Paul Canero, she claims that deliberately disconnected the generator, cut the power off. She. He knew that his brother would come out to try and see what was going on. And she claims as he was waiting for him there in the dark, he shot his brother. I think she said he fired six shots, five of them hitting his brother execution style. So he had taken out the person who could have defended his family.

[T.J. Holmes]

And then it gets worse. They say he goes into the house, and this is where she said, I mean, he had cut power to the house. So in the dark, he is hunting an unsuspecting family. Now, by all accounts, Robes, everybody was awake because of the disturbance, because of everything that's going on. The power's gone out and dad has to go outside. Hunted them down. So the woman is found in one spot, shot on a staircase, one of the kids stabbed 17 times. This was the little girl and they made a point robes to say 17 times in her 45 pound body.

[Amy Robach]

Didn't that just send just this horror throughout your entire body? To imagine a grown man over on top of a 45 pound 8 year old girl who was his niece, who he presumably loved and spent a lot of time with. That is as horrific as it gets.

[T.J. Holmes]

And the same now is with 11 year old Jesse found in a different part of the home, stabbed as well. So the prosecutor, I thought at least I hadn't heard a lot of these details. I didn't do a deep enough dive to hear some of this. But. And this is everything we've just said and I apologize, I meant to actually give a warning at the top just to say, hey, some of this stuff that came out in court today is awful and I think this is probably the most awful thing given what we just said. This next thing is the most awful detail. Robes to hear that the kids had smoke in their lungs. So he kills everyone in the house, but does what he does. And they say he goes out and sets a fire that actually smolders for hours. They say.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, slow burning fire is how they describe it.

[T.J. Holmes]

They didn't get a call about this fire for hours and hours and hours later. So it took a while for this thing to burn. So they're saying both kids had evidence of smoke in their lungs. Meaning those kids were left alive in that house.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, she put it like this. She said they were inhaling smoke as they bled to death. That is quite the scene. Thinking about this family on the stairs bleeding out.

[T.J. Holmes]

So these things can, okay, she has to tell the facts and if it's true. But my God, how are you sitting on the jury and still in that moment going, okay, remember what the judge said, that he's presumed innocent. How can you not want to, to get back at somebody for that just as a human being? It's tough to do your job there. But that, that particular detail, hearing he killed him is one hearing what they went through. Like you want somebody to pay for that shit.

[Amy Robach]

It's hard to have, I mean I, they, they're taking their lunch break and I, after hearing what was said in court today, it's hard to even want to eat. That's how horrific this is.

[T.J. Holmes]

In addition to the other evidence there, he left a pile of clothes they said in his basement and they ended up being near where the fire was started. This pile of clothes, I mean some of these details, they said had the niece and nephew, some of their DNA, some of their blood on these clothes. There were six black gloves mixed in there, and there were blood. So they're putting together a case. You're scratching your head like, holy hell.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah.

[T.J. Holmes]

Just from the overwhelming.

[Amy Robach]

Just from the opening statement alone from the prosecutor, the evidence is overwhelming. Yes. The pile of bloody clothes that are his clothes that have his niece and nephew's DNA on them, they found a barrel of a gun in his backpack in the Porsche that the family was sitting in. So his family gets out of the fire, the fire that they say he set, to cover it up, to make it look like their entire family was targeted by someone. So he sets the fire to his own home, they claim, and then he gets his family out alive. And they're waiting in the family's Porsche. But in that Porsche was a backpack, and in that backpack was a lot of evidence. A lot of evidence.

[T.J. Holmes]

And so again, we're trying to piece this together, but according to the prosecution, there is the barrel of a gun there. They go in the house, they find another gun that's whose barrel had been swapped out. So they say, though, they can trace the barrel of the gun and the actual gun both to bullets that were used at the other house. Again, this is all wildly overwhelming. Now, the timeline I had not heard before either. This is one of those. You have to go, hmm, I know it looks bad, but this looks awful.

[Amy Robach]

This is terrible.

[T.J. Holmes]

This looks awful.

[Amy Robach]

So this is based on surveillance cameras. So this isn't their estimation. They actually have video evidence at 2:06am that Porsche left Paul Canero's home. It's a 20 minute drive to his brother's house. So at 2:52, the power was lost at the brother's house. They can document that. And then at 3:14am to 3:18am there were four texts that went from Keith's phone, that's the brother who was murdered, to Paul's phone and saying that the power was out, that he was going to check his generator. Like, basically that he was updating his brother on what was happening.

[T.J. Holmes]

And then, would you believe at 3:18, they said the last one that his brother sent was saying, I'm going to go out and check the generator.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, okay. So 3:30am, there's a 911 call from someone who heard gunshots. And then at 4:08am, that Porsche returns back to Paul Canaro's house. And at 5:02am, there is a call about a fire at Paul Canaro's house. That timeline is damaged.

[T.J. Holmes]

Looks bad.

[Amy Robach]

It's his car.

[T.J. Holmes]

I know it looks bad. It all looks bad. I know it looks bad.

[Amy Robach]

Terrible.

[T.J. Holmes]

Again, so you're listening to this and like, how in God's name are they going to defend themselves? Because on top of all this, the. We talked about this in previous cases, juries like to have a motive. And they, they are trying to set up a financial one here, at least on two fronts. One, he's the beneficiary of a life insurance policy. And also he was in business with his brother. And that was going.

[Amy Robach]

His brother had just found out that or claimed that Paul had stolen money from the company. And he was demanding answers the day before, saying, I need to know what's going on. Asking for passwords to get into certain accounts to see what actually happened, where this missing money was.

[T.J. Holmes]

And in addition, now the crazy part here about the life insurance. There was a $3 million life insurance policy that Keith Canaro had. The beneficiary of that policy was Keith, his wife. But in the event of his wife's death, that money would go to the kids. God forbid, if everybody in the family is taken out, that $3 million is to be split amongst two brothers, Paul.

[Amy Robach]

Canero and Corey Canaro.

[T.J. Holmes]

Those are the two that's left. And so if one of the brothers goes to prison, all of that money goes to Corey. Now, that is a wild scenario that would you believe the defense is about to explore? Yes. Stay here. We'll tell you about the defense opening statement and their line of defense. Success starts with your drive, and American Public University is here to fuel it.

[Amy Robach]

With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward.

[T.J. Holmes]

Whether you're a changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion, APU's programs are designed for people who never stop.

[Amy Robach]

You bring the fire. APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu Apus Edu.

[Josh Zeman]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him?

[T.J. Holmes]

Josh.

[Josh Zeman]

I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Robach]

Welcome back, everyone. We are talking about the explosive trial that is taking Place in New Jersey. Seven years in the making. This is a horrif horrific. It murders. It's a massacre of an entire family. And one brother is accused of murdering his other brother and his brother's family in the most horrific fashion. But he's now suggesting, according to his defense, that the other brother actually is the one who may be responsible.

[T.J. Holmes]

Suggesting. They're flat out saying.

[Amy Robach]

I was trying to be.

[T.J. Holmes]

I mean, they're not dancing around it. Did you take it?

[Amy Robach]

I didn't know. They are absolutely saying that, hey, this other brother, Corey, actually benefited the most. If he could take one brother out by a murder, take out the other brother by framing him for the murder, and then he gets all the life insurance money. That is the defense they're setting up. I also thought it was interesting. The defense attorney in this case started out by saying, basically acknowledging the overwhelming evidence. And she said, it's so obvious it doesn't make sense. So they're actually using the fact that there's so much obvious evidence against Paul Canero that no one would be that stupid as to commit a murder and leave all this evidence behind.

[T.J. Holmes]

I am not. Maybe that's good legal strategy, but I am just a dude, and I would have been offended by that on the jury. Like, you're. You're actually telling me don't believe the overwhelming evidence against your client because it's so overwhelming. It's so overwhelming that it can't be true. Right. Nobody's as stupid of a criminal.

[Amy Robach]

That's basically what they're doing. Nobody is this stupid.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay. I didn't necessarily. It wasn't in. Didn't love that opening direction she went. But. But okay. But she did acknowledge. And she walked over to the table at one point saying, I am not here to defend this tragedy. I am here to defend Paul Canero and walked over to him. And I thought that made sense and that was effective. But, yes, they are going after the other brother and flat out saying that Paul Canero did not do this. She is declaring he is innocent. This is not just another theory. She's saying this is not the right guy. Part of that is robes. They. It looks like they are going to go after the investigation pretty strongly.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, they are saying that the police never once looked at Corey Canaro as a possible suspect. They zeroed in immediately on Paul Canero and had tunnel vision. And they only investigated him. They only checked his DNA. They only looked at his text and. And his life. And. And any evidence that pointed to Paul. They never once considered that could have had something to do with it. And because of that, they got the wrong guy.

[T.J. Holmes]

That seems crazy that they wouldn't have looked into the other brother in some way. Because she's making an argument, the defense attorney, that, yes, they're saying she used house of cards, saying, my client is sitting here saying he had this financial house of cars, and that's why he had to kill over money. Said Corey's house of cars was worse.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, they said our client's financial situation was bad, but Corey's was worse. That's what they were saying. Yes. And they said that the evidence is so conveniently overwhelming, and that's why you should question their theory. They pointed to the fact that the gas can was conveniently in the front lawn.

[T.J. Holmes]

That's kind of crazy.

[Amy Robach]

That is. That is. And you think about even the fact that he took some of those clothes, the, like, bloodied clothes, and then, like, put them in his own home and went to burn them, but they didn't burn completely. Like, why would you even possibly leave that kind of evidence behind?

[T.J. Holmes]

Sounds stupid.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, it does sound very stupid.

[T.J. Holmes]

The barrel. I'm gonna. I need to hear about the barrel of the gun.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. How did someone conveniently put that in his backpack in the period of time that. Yeah, there wasn't really a lot of opportunity there for Corey or anyone else to do that. But they also pointed out about the relationship between Paul and Keith. They said that they were best friends, they were each other's person.

[T.J. Holmes]

I thought that strong, that that's a big deal. I mean, it sounds like they were really, really close. That might be a factor. I thought it was in the middle of the night. Something goes wrong at your house, the first thing you think to do is to text your brother. I thought that said a lot. That three in the morning, it was just his power out. And the first thing he did was text his brother several times and even said, hey, I'm gonna go out and check it out. That.

[Amy Robach]

That suggested to me a very tight relationship. And in fact, you know, I've been doing a deep dive, and it's. This is so incredibly sad, but his adult daughters, who were there at the time of the fire, they have, through social media over the years, paid tribute to their niece and their nephew and their aunt and their uncle, saying how much they miss them, how much they love them, putting up photos. This was a family that vacationed together, that ate together, that did everything together. She said when she went away to college, her nephew Jesse FaceTimed her every day. Her niece, she called her, her little mini me. So these were families that were so entwined and so close knit, they were a family in and of themselves. They even said it wasn't even like there were two families. It was as if they were all one family in business and in pleasure.

[T.J. Holmes]

I mean, they decided to live 20 minutes apart.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. 10 miles from one another.

[T.J. Holmes]

You know, they were over at each other's house all the time doing whatever those things are. But to have this all now playing out. But yes, that is, I'm not sure how far they're going to go with that theory and trying to prove it or they're just hinting at it and suggesting it. But you, if you give in a juror's mind, another possibility, another option. And right now they're saying there's somebody else who had just as much to gain from this, who made the. It was a prosecutor. She said this case is not about how much he had to gain, but about how much he had to lose. Wow. It wasn't about how much money was coming, but he was about to lose his life, way of life and had no way out.

[Amy Robach]

He was desperate. It's interesting because in the last two major court cases, we followed Diddy and then Brian Walsh, we saw both of those defense teams choose not to put up a defense at all. And it'll be interesting to see this case because there are, they are clearly at least an opening statement suggesting they have a full defense, that they're going to present an alternative theory.

[T.J. Holmes]

Did you hear her? She said she told the jury five, six or seven weeks. Five, six or seven weeks. And they are almost getting us ready for a really boring few weeks of testimony. And they, they acknowledged it. They said, hey, this is going to be a lot of stats, a lot of info, a lot of financial records, a lot. Yeah.

[Amy Robach]

It's crazy. In a story that is this salacious and this horrific and this headline provoking that it could immediately be so boring from the beginning. But once opening arguments ended and testimony began it, so far it's exactly as they suggested because they're getting into the financials of the company. They're getting into the financials, they're getting into the business. It is tedious and it's not. It's. I found myself kind of having to make myself focus thinking about those jurors sitting in this room preparing themselves for two months of this. That's a lot.

[T.J. Holmes]

And then the, the guy that's up now as we're recording this, they're on lunch break. But that guy was frustrating the hell out of the judge and he was trying to read through emails and he was just all over the place and all this. Yes, it was one of the. I know these folks don't testify all the time, but. Yes, but yeah, folks just wanted to hop on and give you that update. This is one we keep a close eye on. Anytime there is a significant update. In this case, you can find it here. Always. Top right corner of your Apple podcast app where you see our show page. Little button that says follow, click that. You don't have to go hunting for our updates. They'll come right to you. And for now, on behalf of Amy Robach, I'm T.J. holmes. Talk to y' all soon. Success starts with your drive, and American Public University is here to fuel it.

[Amy Robach]

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[T.J. Holmes]

You'Re changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion. And APU's programs are designed for people who never stop.

[Amy Robach]

You bring the fire. APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu. Apus. Edu. Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[T.J. Holmes]

Your bill, ladies.

[Amy Robach]

I got it. No, I got it.

[T.J. Holmes]

Seriously, I insist.

[Amy Robach]

I insisted first. Don't be silly. You don't be silly.

[T.J. Holmes]

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[Amy Robach]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

[T.J. Holmes]

Shoot.

[Amy Robach]

No.

[T.J. Holmes]

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[Josh Zeman]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts, this is an iHeart podcast.

[Amy Robach]

Guaranteed Human.