The Damage Is Done

Summary

Summary of "The Damage Is Done" Episode of "Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
• Episode: The Damage Is Done
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Release Date: July 3, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "The Damage Is Done," seasoned journalists Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes, alongside former Danity Kane member Aubrey O’Day, provide an in-depth analysis of the high-stakes trial involving Sean "Diddy" Combs. This episode dissects the legal proceedings, explores the broader societal implications, and delves into the emotional aftermath for the victims and the community.

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Context of the Trial

The episode begins by setting the stage for the trial, highlighting the gravity of the charges against Sean Combs, including serious accusations of sex trafficking and racketeering. Aubrey O’Day brings her unique perspective as a former protégé of Diddy, offering insights into his character and past behavior.

• Aubrey O’Day: "From my days on Making the Band, I saw a side of Diddy that was far from the glitz and glamour." [04:30]

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Key Moments in the Trial

Prosecution's Case and Evidence

The hosts discuss the prosecution's strategy, emphasizing the strength of the evidence presented, particularly surrounding Cassie's sex trafficking charge. They analyze how the documentation provided made it difficult for the defense to counter the claims effectively.

• Elizabeth: "The concrete evidence presented against Cassie was undeniable. It left the jury with little room to doubt." [05:45]

Defense's Argument and Public Perception

Enrique Santos expresses his skepticism about the defense’s ability to counteract the prosecution’s claims, especially given Diddy's influence and public image.

• Enrique Santos: "When Wolf Blitzer was so silent, it was a sign that something wasn’t adding up. My guts were on the floor." [03:00]

Unexpected Verdict and Its Immediate Impact

The episode captures the shock and disbelief felt by the hosts and the public following the trial's unexpected outcome. The silence from media personalities like Wolf Blitzer symbolizes the complexity and uncertainty of the verdict.

• Enrique Santos: "We thought RICO was there, and then everything flipped so fast. It was utterly shocking." [04:02]

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Legal Analysis

Charges and Legal Precedents

Elizabeth provides a detailed breakdown of the charges, particularly focusing on the transportation to engage in prostitution. She explains how these specific charges played a pivotal role in shaping the jury's decision.

• Elizabeth: "Those two transportation charges were the backbone of the prosecution's case. Without them, the narrative would have been entirely different." [05:09]

Judge's Ruling and Bail Denial

The hosts analyze the judge’s decision to deny bail, interpreting it as a stance against releasing a potentially dangerous individual back into society.

• Enrique Santos: "The judge didn't let him go home. That indicates he’s still considered a threat." [17:37]

• Elizabeth: "The judge cited him as a flight risk and a danger to the community, which should concern us all." [20:26]

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Impact on Victims and Civil Suits

Cassie's Case and Emotional Toll

Cassie’s emotional journey is a focal point, illustrating the personal cost and resilience required from victims seeking justice.

• Cassie: "I would ask my husband, do you want me to stop? He was like, no, keep fighting." [05:22]

Elizabeth discusses the ongoing civil suits, highlighting the overwhelming number of victims seeking recompense and the challenges they face in the legal system.

• Elizabeth: "There are over 80 civil suits now. The road to justice is far from over." [06:22]

Long-Term Implications for Legal Accountability

The conversation underscores the broader implications for holding powerful individuals accountable, referencing historical cases like O.J. Simpson and R. Kelly to contextualize the current scenario.

• Enrique Santos: "Looking at history, we know that justice can be slow, but hope remains that karma will catch up." [32:00]

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Public and Celebrity Reactions

Diddy's Public Response

The hosts critique Diddy's public displays post-verdict, including a controversial rap performance outside the courthouse, questioning its appropriateness and impact on public perception.

• Enrique Santos: "He performed 'Free Diddy,' took his shirt off, and his girlfriend twerked outside the federal building. It was a surreal spectacle." [25:35]

Media Coverage and Public Sentiment

Elizabeth and Enrique discuss the varied media reactions and the polarized public sentiments following the trial's outcome.

• Elizabeth: "The media was divided, and it left the public confused about where they stand." [09:13]

• Enrique Santos: "People are feeling disenfranchised, seeing the system fail them once again." [36:07]

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Societal Implications and Future Steps

Need for Systemic Change

The hosts emphasize the necessity for systemic changes to better support survivors and ensure accountability, moving beyond the confines of the criminal justice system.

• Tarana Burke's Insight: "We need institutional memory of what we saw. Survivors' voices must not be silenced by disappointing verdicts." [39:55]

• Enrique Santos: "We have to start protecting each other more and hold ourselves accountable for our behavior." [41:00]

Encouraging Victims to Pursue Justice

Elizabeth highlights the importance of continuing civil suits as a pathway for victims to seek justice, even in the face of an unfavorable criminal verdict.

• Elizabeth: "Civil suits offer a different avenue for accountability and compensation for the victims." [34:44]

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Conclusion

"The Damage Is Done" serves as a comprehensive examination of the Diddy trial, highlighting not only the legal battles but also the profound emotional and societal impacts on the victims and the broader community. Through thoughtful discussion and incisive analysis, Amy Robach, T.J. Holmes, and Aubrey O’Day shed light on the complexities of achieving justice in high-profile cases and the ongoing struggle to hold influential individuals accountable.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Aubrey O’Day: "From my days on Making the Band, I saw a side of Diddy that was far from the glitz and glamour." [04:30]

• Enrique Santos: "When Wolf Blitzer was so silent, it was a sign that something wasn’t adding up. My guts were on the floor." [03:00]

• Elizabeth: "Those two transportation charges were the backbone of the prosecution's case. Without them, the narrative would have been entirely different." [05:09]

• Enrique Santos: "There are over 80 civil suits now. The road to justice is far from over." [06:22]

• Aubrey O’Day: "We have to start protecting each other more and hold ourselves accountable for our behavior." [41:00]

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Key Takeaways

• Complexity of High-Profile Trials: The Diddy trial underscores the intricate balance between legal processes and public perception, especially when powerful figures are involved.

• Victims' Resilience and Struggle: Victims like Cassie demonstrate immense resilience, yet they continue to face significant challenges in their quest for justice.

• Systemic Issues in Justice: The episode highlights ongoing systemic issues within the criminal justice system, including the difficulty of holding influential individuals accountable.

• Importance of Civil Suits: Civil lawsuits remain a critical avenue for victims to seek justice and compensation, even when criminal trials fall short.

• Need for Societal Change: There is a pressing need for broader societal and institutional changes to better support survivors and ensure accountability beyond legal verdicts.

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the "The Damage Is Done" episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn by the hosts and their guest, Aubrey O’Day. Whether familiar with the trial or new to the subject, this summary offers valuable perspectives on the multifaceted journey toward justice and accountability.

Transcript

[Enrique Santos]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Brian Herrera]

In 2012, 16 year old Brian Herrera was gunned down in broad daylight on his way to do homework. No suspects, no witnesses, no justice.

[Cassie]

I would ask my husband, do you want me to stop? He was like, no, keep fighting.

[Brian Herrera]

After nearly a decade, a breakthrough changed everything. This is Cold Case Files Miami. Stories of families who never stopped fighting. Listen to Cold Case Files Miami on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson threw the very first brick, started banging on the.

[Ellen Greenberg]

Door of the Stonewall like one.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Boom.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.

[Alan Berg]

Iheart Podcast. Before social media, before cable news, there was Alan Byrd.

[Brian Herrera]

He was the first and the original Shock Chuck.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people and telling them that you're an idiot and I'm gonna hang up on you.

[Alan Berg]

This is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And he pointed to the Denver phone book, said, well, there are probably 2 million suspects.

[Alan Berg]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ellen Greenberg]

How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the back, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Why?

[Ellen Greenberg]

What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in depth look at the facts, see what happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children.

[Jan Marsalek]

Did it occur to you that he charmed you in any way?

[Ellen Greenberg]

Yes, it did.

[Aubrey O'Day]

But he was a charming man.

[Alan Berg]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story, because this ties together the Cold War with the new one. I often ask myself now, did I.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Know the true Jan at all?

[Jan Marsalek]

Listen to hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ellen Greenberg]

Amy and TJ presents Aubrey o' Day.

[Brian Herrera]

Covering the Diddy trial.

[Enrique Santos]

Let's talk. So you were at court today. You actually, I was watching you on the television. I was so proud of you. You look so beautiful this morning. And I was in the most chipper of moods because where we left it off this morning with every journalist and news site reporting on the case was the prosecution should feel pretty good right now. The defense should feel nervous. That's that was the overall understanding of the moment. They were they we were in. Given that it seemed like they had made rulings and if they were conflicted about Rico, the rulings of anything underneath it means that there people thought RICO was there, then they had to have thought the other things were there. We thought or most of the media world thought. And then as it all came in, it just got flipped on its ass so fast. I was watching. I was watching. I don't know who your in air person is. I was looking at Wolf Blitzer and he was so quiet. I've never seen Wolf so quiet. And I've seen him call elections that I don't know what his political beliefs are, but I don't know that. He loved the call he had to make. But he stood in that moment and made it. When Wolf was silent, I was. My guts were on the floor.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. I mean, look, I have to say I was stunned. I was not shocked. And here's the reason why, and we spoke about this about a week ago on this podcast, Aubrey, is there were a lot of moments in this trial that made you realize that this is not a lock at all. We have been saying that. I know you've been saying that since day one. I've been reporting that since day one. There was a lot of gray area. There was testimony that came in that either fell flat or actually hurt the prosecution. So look, did many people anticipate a different verdict? Yes. But there were moments in the trial where as I was discussing with my team and with our legal analysts, I remember saying, you know, I don't see a path to a full acquittal just based on the evidence and based on sitting there in court. And the reason why was because of those two transportation to engage in prostitution charges. I believe that when they showed documentation, concrete, tangible evidence that there was really no way out of those two charges.

[Enrique Santos]

Elizabeth, I didn't see a way out of Cassie's sex trafficking. I feel like it was all the way there. And the her situation was so different than the other victim, Jane Doe, you and I discussed.

[Elizabeth]

We.

[Enrique Santos]

You looked at two different people. They were drastically different. The Cassie one, because I was there when she came in the very first day she came in to ask Puff to be on the label to knowing her in her Prior relationship with Ryan. So you having been witnessing everything in court, her sex trafficking charge was there. Yes.

[Elizabeth]

And you know what? I believe that if this case were just centered around Cassie, and you remember the first indictment was just Cassie, she was victim one. And in that indictment, victim one was Cassie. I believe that had she been the only poor witness and Mia, I think if Mia testified, but I think had this been centered just around Cassie, I think that there could have been a different outcome here. You know, we spoke about this and you just mentioned it, that Jane and Cassie are very different women, both with horrific allergies.

[Enrique Santos]

So different that the cultural weight of this decision is immeasurable right now. It is literally heartbreaking to witness, to witness to know how many civil suits, 80 plus 85, I think now. 80 plus lawsuits right now. Like I think at least three or four just filed in the last week. There are, there are all of that, aside from what's going on in court. There are so many people that have had their lives impacted by their experiences with Sean Combs. Only for all of those stories to fall short in the eyes of the jury, I mean, I can only hope that these jurors never have to watch somebody they love endure everything that we have heard everyone describe. I feel like Cassie is somewhere feeling, taking the weight of this in. I mean, we've been dissecting all of these people's credibility versus understanding their courage. It's, it's in us to dissect versus to see and believe what's in front of us. And, and let's be clear, like the.

[Elizabeth]

The courtroom operates by the law.

[Enrique Santos]

It does not mean it delivers justice every time. We have a lot of courts deciding a lot of things right now that are going to be put a lot of people in danger that are not best for us overall.

[Elizabeth]

It's the law.

[Enrique Santos]

It does not mean it is justice. And it's not the best place to develop a moral compass this world needs right now urgently. So to me, what I worry is we just told the world that everything. We even listened to Cassie, it had experience. I mean, she couldn't leave her home without checking in. There were mandatory check ins, routine stop bys. Even when she got a little bit of her life back, at any point that he could come in and turn her life upside down, the control that he had over her life for so long, knowing who she was when she came in there, knowing what she became all these years later, like, to me, I would never in my life want the law to consider that of no guilt, what kind of Precedence are we starting for this industry and for rich, powerful, wealthy men and. And beyond that. Elizabeth, I have seen reporting that when the kids came out and got in the van that they opened the van door, which by the way, I don't know if you know this, but Kanye released an album with Diddy on it and with his son King. Yep, they released a full album this past week. He played his hit song on, opened up the van door, ended a full blown performance, took his shirt off while his girlfriend was twerking in the back. Did you get to see any of that?

[Elizabeth]

I saw the commotion around it from where I was standing because as you know, I was literally live on our air most of the day, so I couldn't be right near there. But I did see video footage of it.

[Enrique Santos]

What case have you been in where people stand up and start clapping cheer. Dream team, dream team. To defense that did put on no defense and to a closing statement that basically slut shamed and told the entire world this was a great man. He provide an incredible working environment. All these girls were hoes and they were lined up to do the freak offs. And this is what women will do. And he gave everybody the lab of luxury. And every now and then he, you know, got mean on drugs. Like that is what the jury believed enough to give a non guilty verdict on more of the important charges. So what are they telling us? What do artists have to to do now? What do women have to do now?

[Elizabeth]

Well, like you said Aubrey, in a court of law, they are following the law. The scope is very limited.

[Enrique Santos]

I saw sex trafficking in the law. I have read every transcript of every day of this. Most people have not. You've been in court. I have read every transcript because I am reporting on this. I am not just watching the news occasionally. I saw a walking path to sex trafficking with Cassie. The it was very believable. She did not soil herself. She did not come off as a liar or like I had any doubt in her story. Unless Jane Doe just trickled over onto her walking path, her experience deserved inaccurate calling of the law.

[Elizabeth]

Look, as you were saying that justice is not always served here. It is a high burden to meet these charges. And a defense attorney's job is not to prove the truth. A defense attorney's job is to defend their client who oftentimes in this case certainly is paying them a lot of money.

[Enrique Santos]

I know. And they're. They were paid a lot of money to give a narrative that's dishonest and frankly dangerous to many people. The Bonnie and Clyde, they were equals. They were in a messy love relationship. What is every woman out there in a quote, messy love relationship thinking about in regards to her options to ever feel safe again in life? Tonight.

[Elizabeth]

Now, I want to tell you because you've referenced a few moments here from Diddy's defensive closing argument where they spoke about Cassie and that Bonnie and Clyde narrative. So, Aubrey, today I sat down with Cassie's attorney. I'm the only journalist who has sat down with him for his first interview. And I asked how is Cassie doing? Because she, she is not expected to speak out. She is at home with her family. She's a new mom, she has three kids. Her attorney, Doug Wigdor told me that she wants to move on. But he told me, he said, don't worry about Cassie. He said she's actually really doing okay. He said that when he spoke to her right after the verdict that she was comforted and filled with gratitude knowing that if she had not come forward that Sean Combs would have never stepped foot into a courtroom and would have never been convicted. Because look, it is devastating to people like you that he was acquitted on the more serious charges. But this is a man who his whole life, well, not his whole life but you know, he's self made. But the past three decades has been about wealth, power, access, calling the shocks.

[Enrique Santos]

Control, coercion and abuse. I'll throw those three in myself.

[Elizabeth]

And now he is a convicted felon. Yes, he's not facing life in prison. No, he's not going to serve a long, long, long sentence.

[Reputation Defender]

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[Aubrey O'Day]

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[Reputation Defender]

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[Brian Herrera]

In 2012, 16 year old Brian Herrera was gunned down in broad daylight on his way to do homework. No suspects, no witnesses, no justice.

[Cassie]

The call was horrible. I replayed over my head all the time.

[Brian Herrera]

For years, Brian's family kept asking questions, while a culture of silence kept the case cold.

[Cassie]

Snitches get stitches. Everybody knows it.

[Brian Herrera]

Still, they refused to give up.

[Cassie]

I would ask my husband, do you want me just let this go? He said, no, keep fighting.

[Brian Herrera]

I told her I would never give up on this case. And then, after a decade of waiting, a breakthrough.

[Cassie]

We received a phone call that was bittersweet, because it's a call that we've been waiting for for a very long time.

[Brian Herrera]

I'm Enrique Santos. This is Cold Case Files Miami, a podcast about justice, persistence, and the families who never stopped fighting. Listen to Cold Case Files Miami as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.

[Alan Berg]

Iheart Podcasts. Before social media, before the Internet, before cable news, there was Alan Berg.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You dig what I do. You have a need. Unfortunately, you have no sense of humor. That's why you can't ever enjoy this show, and that's why you're a loser.

[Brian Herrera]

He was the first and the original shock jock.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people. You're as dumb as the rest. That's. I can't take anyone. I don't agree with you all the time. I don't want you to. I hope that you pick me apart.

[Alan Berg]

His voice changed media. His death shocked the nation.

[Ellen Greenberg]

And it makes me so angry that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He got himself killed because he had a big mouth. KOA morning talk show host Alan Berg.

[Reputation Defender]

Reportedly was shot and killed tonight in downtown Denver.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, There are probably 2 million suspects. This guy aggravated everybody.

[Alan Berg]

From iheart podcasts, this is Live Wire. The loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

But did you know that before it went down in history, the Stonewall was a queer hangout run by the mafia.

[Aubrey O'Day]

The voguing at Stonewall was unbelievable.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

In the summer of 1969, it became the site that set off the modern movement for LGBTQ rights.

[Ellen Greenberg]

Started banging on the door of the Stonewall like one.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Boom, boom, boom.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson, a mother in the fight for trans rights, threw the Very first brick. She was really like scrubbed out of that history. This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ellen Greenberg]

How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the back, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide. Why? What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in depth look at the facts, see what happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children.

[Enrique Santos]

Well, let me tell you something. I think the judge, I was shocked. I usually a judge would let this person without getting the guilty count on the more serious charges, if they're not a flight risk and go home. And he didn't. He did not let him go home.

[Elizabeth]

That's very telling.

[Enrique Santos]

And did he's known to have his big fourth of July party. This one would have been one for the books because I highly doubt that he's reformed any parts of his bad behavior in the short time that he's had to think about his behavior because he certainly didn't take any accountability or acknowledgement and he's got his whole family drinking that juice. They did a full blown concert outside of the fucking federal court building.

[Elizabeth]

And look, look, I mean I think what you're getting at here is the fact that this judge denied him bail. Remember, this is the same judge who determines his sentencing. So is that an indicator that when he goes in for sentencing, that judge may not be right on the sentencing? Now of course the judge has to follow the law. He has to look at precedent. Did he as a first time offender in the legal sense that he has never been convicted before but he is facing 10 years on each of these charges. That is 20 years if served consecutive.

[Enrique Santos]

And by the way, let's bring let's, let's also note that the prosecution originally asked gave him a plea at the beginning of his trial for 15. Judge the judge could come back all the way to 20. Maybe if he doesn't go to 20, he could even go to 18. 18 years is a significant period of time to serve. And unless this is this his plan from the the gods above and Trump pardons him, if we're not going in that direction, which is a whole, we're going to start having a whole kind of different com other conversation if we go in that direction. Let's not go into the possibility right now and stay in reality. The reality is he did not let him go today. He thinks that he is still a threat. The point that they were making to take him out of jail were the very points that were keeping him in there and making sure he didn't get bonded out in the first round. They kept him in that jail. They are keeping him in that jail, which means they think he's a flight risk because he'd be sitting at home if they didn't feel he was. He's proven that he's won because judge is, the judge is very fair. He's been very fair to both sides and he made the call on that. Well, he did. And also he is going to be making the call on the sentencing time. And I don't think he's impressed with the rap concert that went on downstairs or any of the standing and applauding and dream team, dream team today. I don't think he's impressed with that.

[Elizabeth]

Well, look, it's not just that this judge thought that he is a playlist. This judge said that he is violent.

[Enrique Santos]

Do you know how many victims called me today, Elizabeth, and said I'm scared. I'm trying to get somewhere right now. And I was like, are we all doing. I wasn't feeling scared to go home, but they were like, I got a call from somebody high up in the industry and he was like, I wouldn't post in real time where you are for a while. Don't post your home. Don't post where you're actually at. Post it like two or three days later. That's the type of conversations that people are having right now. There are 80 plus civil suits. What kind of conversations do you think they're having? What kind of odds do you think they have right now what this man could potentially turn into is so dangerous.

[Elizabeth]

Well, look what you are saying about your concerns, you know, Cassie's attorney after Combs defense asked for him to be released on bail, Kathy's attorney filed a letter to the judge saying that Cassie is concerned that her life is in danger. That the witnesses who testified in this trial that their lives are in danger and that he is a danger to the community. That was part of what the judge considered as he made his decision to deny him bail. Now Sean Combs face when he was denied bail, he was stunned. His mouth was open, his eyes were widened.

[Enrique Santos]

He could not believe it.

[Elizabeth]

He thought that he was going home and like you said, that he was going to celebrate July 4th. He with his family. And that's not the case.

[Enrique Santos]

What's interesting is how scared he was and how defeated he was being reported of yesterday and especially this morning. Today, everybody talked of his face almost having tears and him being overwhelmed. It's almost as if he kind of already thought he knew how things were gonna go and he was seeing that it could maybe not go that way. And he was trying to trust in whatever he believes in was going to happen because he had all the confidence in the world on that final closing day. Then he got really scared for a couple and everyone was reporting it all of this happy. You're a great judge. Thanks a lot. I'm going to get a Corona. Did you need anything else?

[Elizabeth]

And I have to tell you, I don't think the judge was impressed by that.

[Enrique Santos]

But I'm saying no, but I'm saying all of this back and forth behavior from him, it makes me feel like he had a strong idea. It could just be his attorneys leading him. I don't know exactly until I see, I want to see what's judge does with the sentencing. I think he should be hitting the higher edges of 20. I'm seeing about 18. If I see about 18, I feel like I'll feel like this wasn't something bigger.

[Elizabeth]

Look, I don't want to get your hopes up, I don't want to get your viewers hopes up, but every one of our legal experts on our air, you know, I have been outside the courthouse every single day and inside the courtroom with Laura Coates, who's one of my dear friends and one of our anchors, she's a former prosecutor. She said that we are looking at a minimal amount of years.

[Enrique Santos]

Minimal, like what is a minimal amount? 5.

[Elizabeth]

Like 3 to 5. Because he has not been convicted before. So in the eyes of the judge and the eyes of the court, he is seen as a first time offender. Now look, the prosecution, they if he.

[Enrique Santos]

Had seen as a first time offender, they would let him go. Liz.

[Elizabeth]

Well, and look, I think you bring up an excellent point because the judge and deny him bail. That was a shock. Now by the way, I had predicted that outside of the courthouse. I said this is the same judge who denied him bail before his trial. And the judge had said the reason why he denied him bail is because he was a flight risk, because he was a danger to society and because he was tampering with witnesses. Remember the prosecution accused Sean Comb, the head of his trial of paying other inmates in the NDC to use their phones.

[Enrique Santos]

He was, he was accused of a lot of crazy shit in those bond hearings. What's crazy is that was only two months ago. You think that, you think that thought pattern has changed in two months, Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth]

And that is why the judge knows that this is a. And the judge actually, you know, the judge said that. I'm just remembering that in denying him bail, he said, I already denied him bail when it wasn't mandatory. Why would my thoughts change now? So this judge is not impressed with some of the behavior. Behavior that Sean Combs has displayed. Like you said, if he was, Sean Combs would be home with his family right now as he's awaiting his sentencing.

[Enrique Santos]

So you said his face was shocked.

[Elizabeth]

When they said no, his face was shocked.

[Enrique Santos]

How long did it stay shocked?

[Elizabeth]

You know, momentarily, but he was absolutely shocked. And then after, when he was being ushered out by the marshals, he was talking to his family and he said, it's all right, we'll get through this. He said to his mom that he loves her so. But he was absolutely stunned.

[Enrique Santos]

Was that before or after the rap concert outside the federal courtroom?

[Elizabeth]

That was after. Because that rap concert, as you call it, again, I didn't see with my own eyes, but I saw video of it. And that was after the verdict, but before the bail hearing. So this was before he was denied bail, when his son was gloating.

[Enrique Santos]

Not gloating. He performed the song, he took his shirt off. I've seen the footage. He took his shirt off. He did all of the lyrics to Free Diddy. You never were gonna get him. We're rich. We have money, you don't. We know how to work this system. These are the lyrics of the album and the song. And then his girlfriend jumped out the van and started twerking, turned around and started dropping that ass outside of a federal building.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. And look, let me just say one thing. I know this is a bit of a tangent, but let's be honest. If the one celebrity who shows up during trial to support you as Kanye west, and if during a trial, when your father is facing life in prison, you're releasing a song with Kanye West, a blatant Hitler loving, anti semite, got to tell you, that's not who I would want supporting me. So let's just put that out there.

[Brian Herrera]

In 2012, 16 year old Brian Herrera was gunned down in broad daylight on his way to do homework. No suspects, no witnesses, no justice.

[Cassie]

The call was horrible. I replay it over my head all the time.

[Brian Herrera]

For years, Brian's family kept asking questions while a culture of silence kept the case cold.

[Cassie]

Snitches get stitches. Everybody knows it.

[Brian Herrera]

Still, they refused to give up.

[Cassie]

I would ask my husband, do you want me just let this go? He said, no, keep fighting.

[Brian Herrera]

I told her I would never give up on this case. And then, after a decade of waiting, a breakthrough.

[Cassie]

We received a phone call that was bittersweet, because it's a call that we've been waiting for for a very long time.

[Brian Herrera]

I'm Enrique Santos. This is Cold Case Files Miami, a podcast about justice, persistence, and the families who never stopped fighting. Listen to Cold Case Files Miami as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.

[Alan Berg]

Iheart Podcasts. Before social media, before the Internet, before cable news, there was Alan Burr.

[Aubrey O'Day]

You dig what I do. You have a need. Unfortunately, you have no sense of humor. That's why you can't ever enjoy this show, and that's why you're a loser.

[Brian Herrera]

He was the first and the original shock jock.

[Aubrey O'Day]

That scratchy, irreverent kind of way. It's talking to people. You're as dumb as the rest. That's. I can't take anyone. I don't agree with you all the time. I don't want you to. I. I hope that you pick me apart.

[Alan Berg]

His voice changed media. His death shocked the nation.

[Ellen Greenberg]

And it makes me so angry that.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He got himself killed because he had a big mouth. KOA morning talk show host Alan Berg.

[Reputation Defender]

Reportedly was shot and killed tonight in downtown Denver.

[Aubrey O'Day]

He pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, There are probably 2 million suspects. They. This guy aggravated everybody.

[Alan Berg]

From iheart podcasts, this is Live Wire. The loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Enrique Santos]

It was one of the most liberating.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Things that I have ever done.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

But did you know that before it went down in history, the Stonewall was a queer hangout run by the mafia.

[Aubrey O'Day]

The voguing at Stonewall was unbelievable.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

In the summer of 1969, it became the site that set off the modern movement for LGBTQ rights.

[Ellen Greenberg]

Started banging on the door of the.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Stonewall like one boom, boom, boom.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson, a mother in the fight for trans rights, through the very first brick, she was really.

[Enrique Santos]

Like, scrubbed out of that history.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

This week on Afterlives, we'll Separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ellen Greenberg]

How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the bat, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide. Why? What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in depth look at the facts, see what happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children.

[Jan Marsalek]

Jan Marsalek was a model of German corporate success.

[Alan Berg]

It seemed so damn simple for him.

[Jan Marsalek]

Also, it turned out a fraudster.

[Enrique Santos]

Where does the money come from?

[Jan Marsalek]

That was something that I always was questioning myself. But what if I told you that was the least interesting thing about him?

[Enrique Santos]

His secret office was less than 500 meters down the road.

[Alan Berg]

I often ask myself now, did I.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Know the true Rian at all?

[Elizabeth]

Certain things in my life since then.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Have gone terribly wrong.

[Enrique Santos]

I don't know if they followed me to my home.

[Alan Berg]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story because this ties together the Cold War with the new one.

[Jan Marsalek]

Listen to Hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Enrique Santos]

Let's just put it out there that they've already done a little music collab from prison and Kanye's also gotten in front of discussing touching his cousin and doing things with men. And we're starting to get into dangerous territory where we are not talking about the actual conditions. We are not even sentencing the actual conditions correctly because nobody is being accountable for their actual behavior and intentions. And yes, everybody wants to win the circus that we just participated in for two months, but I'm not seeing a ton of accountability anywhere. Possibly in what you said in regards to Cassie feeling like she paid paved a way for a little bit of justice to occur. But God, if we were going to open this box and we were going to open it wide enough for 80 plus civil lawsuits that aren't going anywhere anytime soon. I have spoken with multiple lawyers that are representative of multiple cases right now and none of them have plans on dropping their cases because they are scared, intimidated or or threatened right now because they didn't decide to let him out. Now had he been home in the next hour, I don't know what people would be saying tonight. But as of right now, nobody's dropping their civil suits. This is ongoing. And let's not Forget R. Kelly walked around. R. Kelly got away the first time and he walked around and he did his victory lap. O.J. simpson also did a victory lap. They were major up upsets, historically that in the moment there were all kinds of cheers. OJ Had a much bigger reception than Diddy and his son's rap concert with the girlfriend twerking. But either way, if you look at history, we've seen walks in victory, we've seen victory walks where karma ends up still catching up to you at the end of it.

[Elizabeth]

And look, I'm glad that you brought up the civil suits because this legal battle is not over for Sean Cole.

[Enrique Santos]

Nowhere near. And by the way, the standard that these people have to meet in civil court is much different and it's going to drain the account.

[Elizabeth]

And look, here's what's interesting is when I interview Cassie's attorney today, I asked him because he represents, aside from Cassie, who of course has already settled, he does represent one other civil accuser. So of course he can't speak to these roughly 70, however many dozens. Dozens.

[Enrique Santos]

Dozens over 80. I heard you say 70 on the air a few times. It's over 80, Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth]

Okay, so look, it's a huge number. It's an enormous number, all with patterns saying that he drug. Not all, but the majority of saying that I was drugged, I took a drink, I don't remember anything. Same patterns. Okay. So I asked Doug Wigdor, Cassie's attorney, I said, what do you think is going to happen now that he won't be serving a life sentence? Are these civil accusers going to be scared or will they be pursuing his suit again? He brought up something so interesting. He said, look, strictly on the plaintiff side, if you're looking at this, there's actually a silver lining because had he been convicted on racketeering, the government could have seized his assets, meaning he has no money. Cassie's attorney said, look at what's happened with the Harvey Weinstein victims. He had to bankrupt his companies. They have not seen a penny. So of course, money does not solve everything. I mean, look at Cassie. Her attorney told me today that she would rather have none of this have happened to her ever than to have that $30 million.

[Enrique Santos]

I believe that's true.

[Elizabeth]

But it was an interesting point that he said that for these civil accusers, now there is something to go after because his assets are not going to be seized. So for Sean Combs, he has a legal mountain of dozens and dozens and dozens of civil suits ahead of him.

[Enrique Santos]

But you know how quickly people can Move money around and make it disappear.

[Elizabeth]

ELIZABETH look, for Sean Combs, his primary concern here was his criminal case. He did not want to spend the rest of his life behind bars, but he still has these civil suits to contend with. And as you said, as you're hearing, people are not pulling these suits. And remember, if he serves prison time, this is still Sean Combs, one of the most powerful men behind bars in prison. This would not have happened had Cassie not filed her lawsuit and had other people come forth with accusations against him. So this is really a stunning turn of events if you look at where Sean Combs was three years ago. So that, I think, is an important point to make, that even though he has been absolved of these more serious charges, he has not been absolved of the horrific, egregious, sweeping allegations against him from men, women and minors across decades. He denies all of them, but those allegations still stand.

[Enrique Santos]

It's still too damning. And by the way, everybody that called me today just looked, they just said, we're never going to see justice. They were never going to be able to. There's so many people that have been so disenfranchised in the music industry that they never expected to even see anything good from this. Like, they were almost waiting for another gut punch, the same feeling that we saw on the intercontinental video. Gut punches, they come in mental forms and physical forms when it comes to Diddy.

[Elizabeth]

That's a fact.

[Enrique Santos]

It's on camera. It's a fact. With that being said, the mental punches, I watched Cassie's intercontinental video, like, 17 times today, Elizabeth 17 times. There are so many people that feel so unseen. It's horrible. It's horrible. It's horrible to talk to them. It's horrible to see the news moving on. Like I said to our last conversation.

[Elizabeth]

What do you do?

[Enrique Santos]

Just move on. That's what you did today. I watched you having to walk through it and you got your, your points made about, you know, with Cassie's lawyer. And you, you did a good job at, like, bringing up the upsides of this. But, like, this is shocking and this is, this is a gut punch for so many people, people that don't have lawsuits, people that aren't trying to make money or be seen, victims that did not want to be seen or profit off of this, but just regret ever being in his path and, and being involved in whatever they, they, whatever hurt, harmed them. And they're just, like, I told you, this is how it works. And I've been sitting here for two months telling all of Them. This isn't how it works. That we got here, that the case is here. I'm. I'm looking over the notes. I'm talking to everybody of every color of every gender. I'm talking to every age group. Like, everybody is feeling consistently the same sent across the board as to how that courtroom made them feel. And the jurors were in that courtroom.

[Elizabeth]

Mm.

[Enrique Santos]

There were more charges there.

[Elizabeth]

Now, listen, I believe that I actually referenced this interview the last time that we spoke, Aubrey. But, you know, during this trial, I interviewed Tarana Burke, who is the head of the MeToo movement.

[Enrique Santos]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

And I asked her, I said, if Sean Combs is acquitted, what does that mean for all of this? And Tarana Burke was saying to me, because her life's work is to support survivors of sexual violence who are having a very difficult time with this verdict today.

[Enrique Santos]

You guys pulled someone on cnn. It wasn't you out there, but a woman was pulled out. I don't know if it's who you're talking about or it's another very epic journalist in the hip hop world, but she just said she. Her heart was with Cassie. And she, you know, had interviewed Puff when he was, like, ninth, when he was a young kid. She's like, she's somebody prolific in the hip hop world. And she literally just yanked her on the screen, like, live, like, we're gonna just run this. And the woman literally said, I'm wondering when these men are gonna finally just stop making excuses, acknowledge their behavior, and change it. It's really that simple. It's been happening in the industry for far too long. The levels of this are being felt so deeply among so many people that you don't know their names. And. And it's all coming down to the. An accountability card. And just finally stop. Stop making excuses for this behavior and just tell the world what you did, and let's get it. Let's stop it.

[Elizabeth]

So on that note, I want to review what Tarana told me when I asked her about what happens if he's acquitted. And I have not talked to her yet since this verdict, but here's what she said. She said that if he walks away from this case, by some miracle, we need to be talking about what. We all witness this together. You can't unring this bell. We all listen to Cassie. We all saw that video. We've heard this testimony. That's not going anywhere. We sometimes have short memories, though. In one apology video, one great produced song, he could start building himself back. We need to have a longer memory so regardless of the outcomes of these trials, I hope that we have institutional memory of what we saw. She went on to tell me, don't gaslight yourself and don't doubt yourself. Don't doubt your own eyes and ears. We saw that man beat that woman in that hotel. Whatever the reasons behind it, we saw what we saw. And she said that she tells survivors of sexual violence all the time, do not put your weight into the criminal justice system, because the criminal justice system, she said, has been failing survivors of sexual abuse since the beginning of time. She said that to get Sean Combs into a courtroom in itself is momentous. And that is how she is seeing progress. Even if it's a slow, slow, slow drip.

[Enrique Santos]

Yeah, it's just a really slow drip, Elizabeth. But I agree with the beginning of what she said in regards to we need to start having the conversations and we need to start holding the behavior accountable. And honestly, I'm speaking really predominantly to men out there. You came from a woman. You've got to assess your behavior toward women. We are literally asking for our own body autonomy back. And you got us on our knees. Let us up and breathe a little bit, please. Start being accountable for your behavior. Start assessing it and changing it. If it's. If you know in your gut that you resonated with the. The parts of this trial that we're disturbing, we have to work together to get a better society out of this. Taking this beyond the jury. Twelve people are not going to decide that a woman, a man, or an artist is the property of the most wealthy and powerful people. If they want them, they're not going to decide that for us. That's not in their hands, and their call is not going to make that decision for us. But we have to start protecting each other more, and we have to start doing what she said, Having conversations that are hard to have and holding ourselves accountable for our behavior.

[Elizabeth]

Alrighty.

[Enrique Santos]

Thanks, Elizabeth.

[Brian Herrera]

In 2012, 16 year old Brian Herrera was gunned down in broad daylight on his way to do homework. No suspects, no witnesses, no justice.

[Cassie]

I would ask my husband, do you want me to stop? He was like, no, keep fighting.

[Brian Herrera]

After nearly a decade, a breakthrough changed everything. This is Cold Case Files Miami. Stories of families who never stopped fighting. Listen to Cold Case Files Miami on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police. Or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson threw the very first brick started banging on the.

[Ellen Greenberg]

Door of the Stonewall like one.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Boom.

[Marsha P. Johnson]

This week on Afterlives will separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.

[Alan Berg]

Iheart Podcast. Before social media, before cable news, there was Alan Berg.

[Brian Herrera]

He was the first and the original.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Shock, shock, that scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people on television, telling him that you're an idiot and I'm going to hang up on you.

[Alan Berg]

This is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg.

[Aubrey O'Day]

And he pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, there are probably 2 million suspects.

[Alan Berg]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ellen Greenberg]

How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the bat, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide. Why? What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in depth look at the facts, see what happened to Ellen on Amazon. All process to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children.

[Jan Marsalek]

Did it occur to you that he charmed you in any way?

[Enrique Santos]

Yes, it did.

[Aubrey O'Day]

But he was a charming man.

[Alan Berg]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story because this ties together the cold war with the new one.

[Enrique Santos]

I often ask myself now, did I.

[Aubrey O'Day]

Know the true Jan at all?

[Jan Marsalek]

Listen to Hot Money, agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cassie]

This is an iHeart podcast.