The Dating App Killer with Elisabeth Rohm: Is your dating app going to get you murdered?

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present – iHeartPodcasts
Episode: The Dating App Killer with Elisabeth Rohm: Is your dating app going to get you murdered?
Date: February 13, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Killer Thriller (hosted by Elisa Donovan) dives into the unsettling true crime story of the so-called “Shopping Cart Killer,” examining the dark realities of using dating apps and how predatory individuals exploit these platforms. Donovan is joined by actress and director Elisabeth Rohm, whose latest Lifetime movie, The Dating App Killer: The Monica White Story, is inspired by these chilling real events. The conversation explores themes of trauma, manipulation, victimhood, and survival, as well as the cautionary power of true crime storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Real Crime Behind the Movie

• True Story Basis:
  • The episode centers on a man who targeted women via dating apps, killing them and disposing of their bodies in shopping carts.
  • After each murder, evidence showed the killer viewed explicit videos of women resembling his victims.
  • His behavior followed a disturbing pattern: he would ingratiate himself quickly, seek acceptance, and react violently when rejected.
  • The crimes are linked to at least six women, with convictions in three cases; the legal process for unresolved crimes is ongoing.
  • [04:04] "One of the ways that they proved that this man was guilty is that after each of these women was murdered, they found in his phone or his computer that he watched explicit videos of women that looked exactly like who he had just murdered." — Christy
• Role of Dating Apps:
  • Dating apps provided both anonymity and access: "We never know what the other person is doing at the time that they are communicating with [us]. It's on an app. You're typing into something." [05:14] — Christy

Red Flags and Victim Survival

• Monica White's Instinct:
  • The survivor, Monica White, recognized and ultimately acted on several red flags, such as the killer's attempt to move in immediately and other unsettling behaviors.
  • Her intuition and emotional connection with the perpetrator paradoxically helped keep her safe:
  • "She survived because she had a connection with him, which went through a longer psychological process." [08:36] — Producer/Co-host
• Isolation and Vulnerability:
  • The hosts discuss how loneliness and the need for acceptance can make individuals vulnerable to manipulation and violence.
  • "This is about being isolated and being so emotionally empty and desperate for connection and how that can turn so... awry." [09:57] — Christy
• Complexity of Victimhood:
  • Victims often are shamed into silence due to the nuanced ways they became entangled, frequently overlooking their inner signals because of deep-seated needs for love. [26:44] — Elisa Donovan

Portraying True Crime Responsibly

• Lifetime's Approach:
  • Rohm underscores Lifetime’s sensitivity in treating these stories—not merely as entertainment, but as stories with a purpose.
  • After each film, there's often a call to action or educational resources provided.
  • "I find Lifetime as a partner to be very highly conscious...It's not just about the drama." [14:19] — Elisa Donovan
• Humanizing Both Sides:
  • The film attempts to give depth to both the criminal and the survivor, exploring psychological causes such as generational trauma, rather than simply sensationalizing the killer.
  • "To understand the damage and psychological implications that make a monster..." [23:22] — Elisa Donovan
• Maintaining Emotional Truth:
  • The story development closely tracked real events, with consultation from Monica White herself.
  • Portraying Monica's perspective was critical to avoiding the common trap of focusing excessively on the perpetrator.
  • "The best way to do that from a producerial point of view...is to make it the Monica White story." [27:59] — Elisa Donovan

Cautionary & Empowering Takeaways

• Trusting One's Intuition:
  • The film emphasizes listening to your gut and honoring your instincts.
  • "Perhaps just really listen to your Spidey senses. Like, trust yourself. Trust your gut." [29:22] — Elisa Donovan
• Not All Monsters Look the Part:
  • The perpetrator was outwardly charming and handsome, which defies stereotypical expectations and reinforces the need for vigilance.
  • "He doesn't look like some sort of monster. He's quite handsome, charming..." [23:05] — Christy
• Generational and Emotional Complexity:
  • The killer's actions are framed as the product of deep personal and generational trauma, not mere evil.
  • The psychological profile included insecurities, trauma, and a desperate need to belong.

Behind the Scenes: Directing True Crime

• Elisabeth Rohm’s Directorial Path:
  • Her journey from actor to director, inspired by Lifetime’s broader focus program.
  • Rohm emphasizes the satisfaction she finds in portraying authentic, complex stories and in helping survivors reframe their narratives.
  • "Maybe it's like the Monica White story. You just have to listen to your instincts." [35:43] — Elisa Donovan

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On What Kept Monica White Safe:
  • "She survived because she had a connection with him...which went through a longer psychological process with him in the crime situation..." [08:36] — Producer/Co-host
• On the Power of True Crime Stories:
  • "I think telling these true crime stories has a purpose beyond just the drama of it. I think that...it helps people heal and seek help." [15:15] — Elisa Donovan
• Caution for Dating App Users:
  • "I have a teenager...he's like, stop with your catastrophe stories. I'm like, be very careful...make sure they come to the house...you've got an air tag on you." [17:26] — Elisa Donovan
• On Choosing to Direct and Tell These Stories:
  • "It was like a fire was lit inside of me and I thought, oh, wow. I've always been interested in human stories, in narrative..." [34:01] — Elisa Donovan
• Empowerment For Women Watching:
  • "Hopefully, it's an inspiring story for women and when they think of themselves as empowered...they have an inner voice and they have to honor that inner voice." [29:22] — Elisa Donovan
• On Not Sensationalizing Killers:
  • "It's really her story and we really built out her character, her world." [27:59] — Elisa Donovan

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Important Timestamps

• [02:02] Episode opens: setting the stage—true crime that hides behind charm and everyday devices.
• [03:55] Brief synopsis of the killer’s pattern and impact of dating apps.
• [04:04] Discussion of evidence: watching videos resembling murder victims.
• [05:05] Hosts dissect Monica White’s early red flags and her reactions.
• [07:03] The killer’s manipulative strategy for finding and seducing victims.
• [09:57] Conversation around emotional isolation fueling vulnerability.
• [12:13] Rohm describes the personal impact of working in true crime.
• [14:07] Opposing sensationalism; the importance of "call to action" storytelling.
• [17:26] How dating app dangers resonate with modern audiences and families.
• [18:38] Juxtaposition: texts from a killer versus a victim’s normal evening.
• [23:22] Reflecting on the importance of not glorifying the killer.
• [24:45] Rohm describes the process of basing the film on Monica White’s real story.
• [29:22] Rohm’s advice: trust instinct and gut in online dating and relationships.
• [34:01] Rohm talks about moving into directing after an acting career.

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Conclusion

This episode navigates the chilling reality of predators exploiting dating apps, giving listeners a layered examination of criminal psychology, victimhood, and the ways in which storytelling can be both cautionary and empowering. Elisabeth Rohm and the production team behind The Dating App Killer aim not only to thrill but to provide agency and voice to survivors, breaking down stigmas and affirming the importance of instincts, community, and compassion.

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For listeners:
This episode is a valuable exploration of the intersection between modern dating, true crime, trauma, and survival narratives. Whether a fan of true crime or simply interested in human psychology, it offers both insight and practical reflection.

Transcript

[Elisa Donovan]

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[Christy]

Amy Robach and T.J. holmes present killer.

[Elisa Donovan]

Thriller with your host, Alisa Donovan.

[Christy]

Hey everyone, Elisa Donovan here, back with a new episode of Killer Thriller. Today's conversation goes straight into the darkest corners of real life, the kinds of stories that are almost unbearable because they actually happened. We're talking about obsession, manipulation, control and violence and how easily it can hide. Charm, authority or a dating profile. Our guest today is actress and director Elizabeth Rohm, whose work has brought some of the most disturbing true crime cases to the screen. From serial killers hiding in plain sight to predators operating inside homes and college campuses, Elizabeth has made a career out of staring directly at the worst of humanity and asking us to do the same. These stories aren't just shocking, they're cautionary. And once you hear how close they come to real life, you might never swipe, trust, or look away the same way again. Okay, before we jump into this interview with Elizabeth, I just need to really break this down a little bit with one of my producers. So, Christy, let's break this down, because to be clear, this. This man's crimes are just absolutely outrageous. And we need to remember that the. These movies are made for entertainment. So sometimes they don't really get as kind of.

[Producer/Co-host]

Into the minutia.

[Christy]

Into the minutia of the crime. So let's just like, talk a little bit about it.

[Producer/Co-host]

Yeah, I mean, this movie, actually, I. Doing the research, which we've. We've both read a bunch of articles doing the research on the crime. The movie does follow pretty close to a lot of the stuff.

[Christy]

Very much so. Yes, very much so.

[Producer/Co-host]

And it is because of those articles and the crime stories that this movie was made. Right. That's why they followed it.

[Christy]

Right, right.

[Producer/Co-host]

But we are talking about a man who was killing women and putting them in shopping carts. At the base of this crime.

[Christy]

At the base of this crime. And also what he would do. One of the ways that they proved that this man was guilty is that after each of these women was murdered, they found in his. His phone or his computer that he watched explicit videos of women that looked exactly like who he had just murdered.

[Producer/Co-host]

Which is another level of psychological, like.

[Christy]

Yes. So you could say, okay, is this. Is this insanity? Is this, you know, deep psychological problems? Yes. But it's also weirdly, you know, scientific and sort of. It's just so crazy. And then also, as much as, like, Monica White, thank God for her, you know, that her. Her internal intuition that eventually said, I gotta get away from this guy. But there were a few things where I think. Hold on.

[Producer/Co-host]

Okay, well, first of all, we need to. We need to mention this all happens over dating apps. That's how he meets these women, right?

[Christy]

Yes, yes.

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So.

[Christy]

And it's important to remember that, which they do show very well in this movie, that we never know what the other person is doing at the time that they are communicating with. Right. You can't see them. It's on an app. You're typing into something. So before they, you know, have a video chat or anything like that, they're just communicating. So she has no idea what this man is actually doing. And. But when she finally meets him, he gets off the bus and immediately is like, can I move in with you and I don't have any money. Now, that to me would be like an enormous red flag, which I think in retrospect, she did say she felt it was, but that. And then he, when he slept in her bed, he, like, peed in her bed, and then she still let him stay. Like, there are all these things that. And of course, they're not going to put this in the movie because nobody wants to see that. Right? Nobody wants to see that. But it's, it's just like I, the, the, the, the, the details of this crime are so bizarre and so disturbing that I just.

[Producer/Co-host]

It sounds like he had a pattern. Right. Because if you read all the articles and you read all the things he gets accused of, basically he's. At the end of the day, they think there were six murders that he was a part of, although they were only able to really prove what looks like three.

[Christy]

I think he is. Either he's going on trial again this spring or he's being sentenced this spring. Yes. So it's not over. This is not over.

[Producer/Co-host]

But he had a pattern, right. He got on the dating apps, he goes through, he finds somebody that he finds attractive or interesting.

[Christy]

It's very effusive to them. You're so beautiful. I'd love to get to know you.

[Producer/Co-host]

Same stuff, every stuff.

[Christy]

Yep.

[Producer/Co-host]

And then because of his own trauma, let's say what we find out in the film and in through these articles and trial, through his own trauma, Mama, with children, with, like, exes and everything, he basically is looking for someone to accept him. Right?

[Christy]

Right.

[Elisa Donovan]

Yes.

[Producer/Co-host]

And then he goes to meet these women, and if they don't accept him right away, it's like.

[Christy]

It's like you're a goner. So he actually says to her, that's the other thing. Huge red flag. The second he gets off the bus, he says, don't reject me. I don't like it when women reject me, so give me a chance. That's like. That's a whole ball of wax. That's like. I would feel as though I, I, you know, in my past have liked to fix men, but that's like a big fix that I could not. You know, it's, it's insane. And also they think. So he speaks about. And they speak, they talk about this in the film as well, that he had an ex whose name was sky and that she died. And he's clearly very affected by that. But the truth is also, they think he may have killed her. That is an unsolved situation. The mom came in and found her in the room that they shared, and she was not breathing. So they. They don't. He might have murdered her as well.

[Producer/Co-host]

Yeah. I mean, I think the thing here is that, like, the psychological of it is all is. Is because it was so repetitive. Right. The things he was saying was repetitive. The actions were repetitive. The fact that Mon White was able to stay alive because she was sincere in the way that she felt for him, that he had, like, an emotional connection to her. So, like, it wasn't like these other women who either rejected him or just were, for lack of a better word, little sluts like, that were like, you know what I'm saying? Like, he didn't have, like, an emotional connection. It was kind of just about like, yeah, the. The getting. The satisfaction that. Getting that person to meet him, the getting to make out with them and, like, all that stuff. This woman survived because she had a connection with him, which went through a longer psychological process with him in the crime situation of it. And then in the movie, they really portray that he gets caught, like, right away after he loses his. His stuff on her. And then. But it really.

[Christy]

But it's actually almost a year, right?

[Producer/Co-host]

Yeah, it was months. And it was like, yeah, she. He reached out to her more before she knew. And then one day a friend was like, hey, guess what? That guy you invited to your birthday.

[Christy]

Party, Serial serial killer.

[Producer/Co-host]

And you got off because.

[Christy]

Right.

[Producer/Co-host]

You basically emotionally connected with this person.

[Christy]

That is such an important point. And, you know, really speaks to how this is about being isolated and being so emotionally empty and desperate for connection and how. How that can turn so de. Awry, you know, so go. Go. So awry. And so many of these. These. These crimes that we talk about, that's really at the core of it is like a deep, deep loneliness.

[Producer/Co-host]

Yeah. These people will be portrayed as monsters. Right. But it is a lot of psychological trauma that goes into it and whether or not he is actually making a phone call to a girl that is emotionally supporting him while he's standing over a dead body.

[Elisa Donovan]

Right.

[Producer/Co-host]

Like, compartmentalizing.

[Christy]

Yeah. You know, that could be for, you know, dramatic, you know, effect.

[Producer/Co-host]

Yeah.

[Christy]

But the. The. The point is there, so I cannot wait to chat with Elizabeth. All of these movies that she has made, she has done a beautiful job at really portraying these people as full human beings and the victims and the women, which is not always the case. Sometimes that gets sensationalized. And it's all about the Predator. So I really appreciate how. How the. The depth and the nuance that she has put into these movies, and she.

[Producer/Co-host]

Casted them to look exactly like them, which is.

[Tara Davis Woodhall]

I know.

[Christy]

It's super freaky, super crazy. It is. All right, let's get into it. Yes.

[Producer/Co-host]

Yes.

[Christy]

Elizabeth. Welcome to Killer Thriller.

[Elisa Donovan]

Thank Killer Thriller. I mean, that sounds like the best place, best time ever, best place to be.

[Christy]

It's like, right in your sky.

[Elisa Donovan]

It's right in the zeitgeist. I can't believe it's taken us this long to meet.

[Christy]

I know. Okay, so thank you for being here and for being here in person. Like I said, it really. It just. It's nice to actually be in a room with another human and have these conversations. So thank you.

[Elisa Donovan]

Couldn't agree more.

[Christy]

So let's just start in the general. These stories are. They're brutal. They're like. Honestly, I was thinking, like, since I started doing this podcast, like, gosh, I. Sleeping is a little bit different these days. Like, how. How do you sleep when you're shooting? Like, how do you actually. Like, does it impact your sleep, I guess is the question.

[Elisa Donovan]

You know, I think I do have darker thoughts, you know, having now gone so much into this true crime scene space. Meaning, like, I find myself thinking, oh, well, that's definitely possible, or that human being could do that, or you have no idea. When you hear a story on the news and you're like, no way. And you're like, yeah, way. There is a dark side, of course, and I'm now very tapped into it. But coming from the years of Law and Order and being a true crime junkie.

[Christy]

Right. You sort of already.

[Elisa Donovan]

Yeah, I've always been interested in a human stories. Nothing is more dramatic than real life, and nothing is more dramatic than nonfiction and crime and really getting into justice, that's always been my thing. And then, of course, I think as an actor's director, I'm very drawn to drama and big performances. And I think these true crime stories generally have a call to action as well. But it is a tender thing, dealing with these victims. And it definitely brings some dark thoughts because, of course, it's unimaginable, some of these stories, really.

[Christy]

But like you said, it's like. It's unimaginable. And then, you see, this is what really fascinates me. And I think why a lot of people are so embedded in it, because to me, I feel like this is all about the human condition and what we are capable of. And, you know, sometimes it's either just circumstances or the combination of circumstances and survival and what you've been through. And what trauma you've had. Like, all of those things come together to create these horrific situations. And.

[Elisa Donovan]

And that's a really real reason why I love partnering with Lifetime, because not only are they making a ton of movies as a studio slash network, I mean, they're incredibly productive when a lot of people are.

[Producer/Co-host]

And.

[Elisa Donovan]

But in my bucket of doing the true crime movies, I've really found every single one that there has been a call to action, either at the end of the movie, there's a hotline, or there's been a documentary piece at the end. So it doesn't feel irresponsible or gratuitous to tell these stories. I find Lifetime as a partner to be very highly conscious. These are commercial projects, of course. People definitely come for the thrill, but they are also, I think, lit up by other human voices that might reflect back to them what they're experiencing. So we've experienced people reaching out saying, thank you for telling this story. I needed this story in order to give me a voice or to encourage me to leave a bad situation or to get out or to give a language to a family member. Like, I'm seeing behavior. And now I understand what this could possibly mean. But again, a lot of these movies, and I think trauma in general, it can be generational, it can be historical in the family. And I think telling these true crime stories has a purpose beyond just the drama of it. I think that when we tell these stories, hopefully it helps people heal and seek help.

[Christy]

Yes. That must be incredibly rewarding then. I mean, that's what I think we all want. You know, I was just talking about this earlier that as actors, we're somewhat limited sometimes where, you know, sometimes you get the paycheck for what isn't as fulfilling and vice versa. And it's. I just think it's these. I agree with you about these stories. And I want to say for anybody who hasn't watched any of the ones we're going to talk about, you're a marvelous director. Thank you. You're a terrific director. Not only an actor's director, but also it's. They're really well shot, these movies. They're well created. And it's not. You can really feel the kind of like the real weight to them without being sensationalized. And I think that's not an easy thing to do. So thanks.

[Elisa Donovan]

And I will give props also to my producing partner, Cara Pfeiffer, and our production company, Rome Pfeiffer Entertainment. Because we are women, I think we are sensitive, and because you Know, we are. We are women with style, and we have, I think, good taste in not only material, but artists, fellow artists. We really want these movies to stand out, to seem premium, even if they have a couple million dollars budget, that they feel like they're way more funded than that and that they're. They're really. That they're premium and that they feel special and important.

[Christy]

I. Well, they do. So the first one we're going to talk about today is it's about the Shopping Cart Killer. The name of the movie is the Dating App Killer, the Monica White series story. So this story, I mean, all of these are just super disturbing and unreal. But this one starts with something that millions of people use, a dating app. And, you know, as a person who I got married before that was even a thing, so it's sort of somewhat terrifying to me, but it's so normal. Everyone does this. And so do you think that's what makes this so scary?

[Elisa Donovan]

Absolutely. I, first of all, I think that the marketing on Lifetime's part is brilliant. I'm not sure if I was single, I'd ever go on a dating app ever again. I have a teenager who's now like, you know, 18 and is on a dating app. And, like, and he's like, stop with your catastrophe stories. I'm like, be very careful. Women do, like, make sure they come to the house. You're not meeting anybody anywhere where there isn't supervision or at least that you've got an air tag on you. What are you talking about? But, and I do think that the dating apps are great. I think it's an incredible way to kind of cut to the chase and, like, cut through the sort of kind of red tape of dating, just to be clear, like, what your intentions are, who you are. So I don't, I'm not trying to drive people away from dating apps, but it's unbelievable that this actually happened. And loneliness is an epidemic. And I think our need to be loved and seen and heard and have somebody to interact with is deep for all of us. So, you know, I think that it's understandable how it happened. And I think it's a beautiful story because Monica White really didn't end up getting victimized. She really listened to her spoiler alert. But, yeah, she ended up listening to her instincts.

[Christy]

Well, I, you know, this. He did not look like a monster, this man. And I think one of the most effective. There are a couple of scenes where this happened, happens where you cut from between the character of Anthony typing to her and always, you know, speaking in, like, you're beautiful. I'd love to see you. You're like my heart's desire. All this sort of stuff. And you see where he is. And in one case, he just killed someone. And then juxtaposed with Monica, who's sitting, you know, with a glass of wine in her living room, kind of like chatting with this person. And this idea that we really don't know what is on the other side. And it's, you know, something you have to think about.

[Elisa Donovan]

Absolutely. Welcome to Valentine's Day. You're gonna see Valentine's Day in a very different way after the dating app killer comes out.

[Christy]

So I love that this is released on Valentine's Day. Is that right? Yeah. Brilliant. Genius. Genius.

[Elisa Donovan]

February 14th, tune into Lifetime.

[Christy]

So did it stand out to you that he and the actual crime. You know, it's. I feel like in retrospect, people could say, oh, of course I. And I think Monica does. Right. Or she realized right away. She sort of had the feeling right away there was something up with him. Yeah.

[Elisa Donovan]

I think that's her perspective, is that there were some red flags, but again, I think she overlooked them. I think she wanted to have intimacy. And then a very big event happened. It's a little different in the movie, how we portrayed it, but the event itself was something that really made her. The red flags were screaming, and she ended up, you know, saving herself because of them. So I don't want to give too much away because it really does take you on a ride. And I think it is thrilling and scary, the unknown of all of that. But she saw behavior and she listened to her inner voice. And I think that's really a big takeaway in this movie. As opposed to the call to action. Sometimes in other true crime projects, this is actually a hero's journey. She listened to herself. She got out of a bad situation, she saved her life, and she lives to tell it.

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[Christy]

You know, he's portrayed in the movie and in life. When you see pictures like he doesn't look like some sort of monster. He's quite handsome, charming, and, you know, that reserved sort of quality that I think as women we, you know, we look for or we interpret as safe.

[Elisa Donovan]

I should say, yeah, not to glorify a monster. That's not my agenda with these movies. But to understand the damage and the psychological implications that make a monster. I wanted to humanize him to a degree that made it possible for us as an audience to think generational trauma, generational abuse, un, you know, sort of dealt with and not taken care of, you know, or at least professionally with some support, can turn into tremendous violence, degradation and, you know, and despair, you know, and violence. So, you know, that's a big part of why, when you're talking about somebody that is a killer or criminal or something like that, to understand their psychology and their backstory so that the actor can portray them. And I hope then when the audience sees that Character, they go, you know what? I have some things I need that are unresolved or whatever, that. And then also, you know, the potential victim, really understanding their perspective. So humanizing stories.

[Christy]

Yes. Yeah. Did you feel any pressure to stay super close to the facts of the story? I mean, obviously the emotional truth, but to the real facts of the story. Like, did you meet Monica? Where did the script come from?

[Elisa Donovan]

Yeah. So we were aware, Kara and I had read an article in People magazine about the Shopping Cart Killer, dubbed Anthony Robinson, dubbed the Shopping Cart Killer. And we thought, you know what? Maybe there's something here. We watched the trial. We waited for the trial, and then as the trial unfolded, it was resolved very quickly. He was found guilty of separated several murders. He speculated others. But we, as, you know, a legal team, you know, at lifetime, and, you know, we can only tell the truth and the only. We can only tell the things that actually have been proven. So there were a couple of women that were, you know, he was found guilty of hurting, and those are the women that are portrayed. And Monica, then we reached out to her because we wanted to tell the perspective from this more, this positive point of view of this hero's journey. And we talk to her. And again, you know, as producers reaching out to a victim, we take it very seriously. It's not a joke. They've been through hell and back, and we want them to trust us and know that we're gonna portray it with so much integrity that they can feel safe, that their story is safe. So we spend some time with her. Then we brought in a screenwriter and we decided to, as you said, do this kind of as a dual track. So you're in both worlds at the same time. Kind of, I think, amps up the drama.

[Christy]

It does. But it also humanizes him. And, I mean, both of them, really. But him as well.

[Elisa Donovan]

Yeah, he's a bit of a grifter. And it's good to see that element, I think, because she actually does see what's good in him too. And that makes it particularly complicated.

[Christy]

Right. Which can explain, you know, sometimes when we look at these things from the outside and we say, oh, I would never do that. You know, I would never. Like, of course, I mean, he seems like such and such. But the reality is when we're in these situations, they're very nuanced and it's very complex. And depending upon how lonely we are or what we're feeling or what we need, you know, it's. It's just simply not that simple.

[Elisa Donovan]

Absolutely. And I think that's why a lot of victims tend to keep quiet. They're so ashamed of how they got into a situation in the first place that they silence themselves as opposed to having empathy and compassion for themselves and some self awareness as to, you know, how they were either love bombed or manipulated or what's inside of them that needs love so much. And it's interesting, I didn't really think about this until now, but my producing partner is a clinician. And I think also as former actresses, we really do come at material from a psychological point of view. And maybe that's part of why the films feel more real and less sensationalized.

[Christy]

Yeah, they truly do. And speaking to that, how do you avoid turning the killer into the most interesting character in the films? Because I, I personally feel as though and I feel like there's something that people are talking about now that any of these crimes, there's always a sort of how it gets sensationalized is we're always concerned with the killer and the killer and we sort of leave the victim behind in some way. And so that is not the way any of these movies feel. And so how do you avoid doing that? Like making him the most interesting?

[Elisa Donovan]

I think the best way to do that from a producerial point of view as well as, as a director is to make it the Monica White story. So it's the Dating App killer, the Monica White story. And we are not celebrating him and we are not, we are not positioning him to become the most thrilling, you know, sexy monster. It's really her story and we really built out her character, her world. And you'll see that when you see the film or you've seen the film, but when others see it, because there is a great friend and there's familial relationships and there's all that stuff in her life. So it's really her story.

[Christy]

Was there a scene that stuck with you long after you shot it?

[Elisa Donovan]

Yeah, I think the one where she has a nightmare. I won't give it away. We struggled with this scene and I.

[Christy]

I was like, what?

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What?

[Producer/Co-host]

Say what?

[Christy]

When I was watching this, I'm like this.

[Homes.com Announcer]

Oh, God.

[Christy]

Oh no.

[Elisa Donovan]

Is this what exactly I struggled with?

[Christy]

It's alarming.

[Elisa Donovan]

We struggled with it because we were like, let's stay in the moment and let's not do that dream. And we were all so pleasantly surprised how the dream scene shot and then how it edited into the film and we thought, oh, wow, that really worked.

[Christy]

Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, it definitely does. What do you hope that women who watch this take away from it.

[Elisa Donovan]

It's like you said, you know, happy Valentine's Day. And also, you may be on a dating app. And that's ok. Perhaps just really listen to your Spidey senses. Like, trust yourself. Trust your gut. You know, I'm not interested in, you know, creating stories of fear. Creating fear. But I think it's. Hopefully, it's an inspiring story for women and when they think of themselves as empowered and that they have an inner voice and they have to honor that inner voice.

[Christy]

Right, right. That is so.

[Elisa Donovan]

Particularly in dating.

[Christy]

Particularly. Well, that's what I thought was interesting, too. You know, there are moments where he goes on other dates and one in particular, and it's very. To me, I went, oh, this is why this woman won't be a victim. And it's similar to Monica. But this care, I mean, I won't give too much away either. But you. There's a moment where you think, oh, my God, this girl is. He's gonna. He's gonna, like, he's gonna kill her because she has got her own opinion. And then you understand, this is not like. This is not just a flagrant murderer. This man. It is very specific to his experiences in his life and certainly probably generational trauma and all of those things. So it's like a much more. It's a much deeper, more complex.

[Elisa Donovan]

Yeah. And I would just say Jared Joseph, he's so good. Really. You know, we went very, very deep, you know, sort of playing with the idea of, like, how did Anthony Robinson become Anthony Robinson?

[Producer/Co-host]

Right.

[Elisa Donovan]

And so there are a lot of underpinnings that are very particular to the work that Jarrah did. Without giving anything away, I'll just say that the idea that this person, like, belonged nowhere, belonged to nobody. And that's why Monica gets to him, because she's so loving and so whatever. It's the perfect storm. And Leela Rashawn did such an incredible job. Her heart is. She's such a sweet soul and such a loving person. And her vulnerability and her willingness and her bravery, even in that scene, the dream scene, you know, I really. I admire her so much. It was so much fun working with her.

[Christy]

Yeah, she was terrific.

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[Christy]

How did you turn to directing in general? Like everybody thinks, oh, you know, you've acted forever. Why wouldn't you just keep doing that?

[Elisa Donovan]

You know, it's actually a Lifetime story because they had a program at the time called the broader Focus Program, and I'd heard about it from other actresses. Kyra Sedgwick, Angela Bassett had participated, done their first movies essentially with them. And so that was a really an actionable item, an actionable plan that Lifetime was doing, putting actresses behind the camera to see how that experience might be. Of course, if you wanted to have that experience, and I did, I wanted to direct. I reached out to the then head of Lifetime. She made it possible for me to direct a film during COVID I did it with a producer that had directed me before. So I had a measure of confidence that, okay, if I was confused or scared or Whatever, that I'd be supported. But the opposite happened. It was like a fire was lit inside of me and I thought, oh, wow. I've always been interested in human stories, in narrative, obviously being an actor, but I really love seeing it from the 360 degree view and I love actors. So I really fell into the directing then that movie did well, Girl in the Basement. And then I went out, we're going to talk about. And then I went on and did another one that did well too. And by then I was like, this is my career move, I'm moving. And in doing that then I decided I wanted to develop more. And I then began a company with a friend of mine, Kara Pfeiffer, who brought a project to me and then we started developing and then we started it formally two years ago.

[Christy]

That is like the dream. I think that's amazing.

[Elisa Donovan]

Maybe it's like the Monica White story. You just have to listen to your instincts. I don't know. At that time, I think, you know, having done two Academy nominated movies back to back, it did seem like a weird choice to like step away from the acting. But I really just went with my happiness and the door of yes opened and I thought, you know what, this is what I'd like to be doing for the next 30 years.

[Christy]

Right. I mean, it certainly seems to me directing must utilize a lot like all the parts of your, of your brain, of your creativity, of your expertise. So I would imagine that it's like a really much fuller creative experience.

[Elisa Donovan]

Yeah, I mean I miss sometimes the heart, you know, of the acting, meaning just the simple quiet kind of connecting with another human being in a scene. I miss that and I love that. And maybe I will act again. I just. This is my seventh movie, I'm about to leave and do my eighth movie for Lifetime and I'm just really fulfilled. And I think being a woman of a certain age, it's nice to focus on others and I don't need the attention on myself. So I'm really enjoying helping actors find great performances and putting the whole thing together. Phenomenal producing partner. So I love going to work with her every day. Beyond that, maybe I'll go back to the acting, but I definitely think the directing is challenging. And it's challenging because you're responsible for so many people and that is very fulfilling. Probably much more complex in its fulfillment than just the acting. The acting is a singular sport in a sense.

[Christy]

Right. You can also like show up in your sweats and stay in your sweats as a director. I mean imagine.

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Exactly.

[Elisa Donovan]

And I can go and you do this and you do this.

[Christy]

That sounds appealing.

[Elisa Donovan]

That sounds very appealing to do hair and makeup or worry about any anything.

[Christy]

This story is a reminder of how easily danger can hide in everyday places. But we're not done. When we come back, we're digging into two more true stories Elizabeth brought to life. Abuse, control and manipulation. Hiding in places that were supposed to be safe. So come back to our next episode where I continue my conversation with Elizabeth.

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[Elisa Donovan]

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[Christy]

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[Elisa Donovan]

Guaranteed Human.