The Diddy Trial: “A Trial of a Lifestyle”

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Episode: The Diddy Trial: “A Trial of a Lifestyle”
Release Date: June 27, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Guest: Aubrey O’Day

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Introduction

In this episode of Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, listeners are provided with an in-depth analysis of the ongoing trial involving Sean "Diddy" Combs. The episode features veteran journalists Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes, along with Aubrey O’Day, a seasoned television personality and music artist, who offers her unique perspective on the case that has captured national attention.

Defense's Closing Argument

The defense's closing arguments, led by attorney Mark Agnifilo, have been a focal point of the trial, characterized by a blend of humor and common-sense rhetoric that stands in stark contrast to the prosecution’s methodical and technical approach.

• Mark Agnifilo’s Performance:
  Mark Agnifilo delivered a dynamic and theatrical closing argument, described by Cindy Crawford as "the most entertaining day" of the trial. His approach included pacing in front of the jury box and employing humor to undermine the prosecution’s case.

  Notable Quote:

  "This is a trial of a lifestyle." (07:41)

• Simplifying Complex Issues:
  Agnifilo avoided using visual aids, opting instead for a more relatable and conversational tone. He emphasized that the charges against Diddy were based on his personal lifestyle choices rather than any criminal enterprise.

  Notable Quote:

  "Sean Diddy Combs has been DEI-ing since the 1990s." (11:00)
  "You want to call swingers? You want to call it threesomes? That's what it is." (08:25)

Prosecution's Presentation

In contrast, the prosecution presented a prolonged and detailed argument, spanning five hours and utilizing charts, graphs, and flowcharts to illustrate their case. The complexity of their presentation aimed to establish a sophisticated criminal enterprise behind Diddy's lifestyle choices.

Key Testimonies and Defense's Portrayal

• Cassie Ventura’s Testimony:
  Cassie Ventura, one of the key witnesses, testified about alleged domestic violence incidents involving Diddy. The defense acknowledged these incidents but reframed them to suggest that Ventura pursued financial compensation rather than pursuing criminal charges.

  Notable Quote:

  "Cassie is here because she wanted money, not because she wanted to charge him with a crime." (23:23)

• Jane’s Testimony:
  Jane, another witness, testified under a pseudonym about her relationship with Diddy. The defense attorney portrayed her as manipulative, suggesting she was involved with multiple partners, thereby discrediting her testimony.

  Notable Quote:

  "She was playing both Kid Cudi and Sean Diddy Combs." (23:57)

Impact on Jurors

The contrasting styles of the defense and prosecution have left jurors in a state of deliberation. The prosecution’s methodical approach versus the defense’s engaging and relatable presentation has created a dynamic courtroom atmosphere.

• Juror Reactions:
  While direct observations of jurors' reactions are limited due to courtroom protocols, the defense's strategy appears to resonate on an emotional level, potentially influencing jurors to consider the personal aspects of Diddy's lifestyle rather than purely legal technicalities.

  Notable Quote:

  "You gotta wonder as a juror... which one are you gonna feel? Which one are you gonna remember?" (29:06)

Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

As the trial progresses, Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes, alongside Aubrey O’Day, continue to monitor and dissect each development. Future episodes are anticipated to delve deeper into the prosecution’s rebuttals and the judge’s instructions to the jury, providing listeners with comprehensive coverage of this high-profile case.

Next Episode Preview:
A bonus episode will be released once the defense rests its case, followed by a detailed analysis of the prosecution’s rebuttal and the judge’s instructions to the jury.

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Highlighted Quotes:

• "This is a trial of a lifestyle." — Mark Agnifilo (07:41)
• "Sean Diddy Combs has been DEI-ing since the 1990s." — Mark Agnifilo (11:00)
• "You want to call swingers? You want to call it threesomes? That's what it is." — Mark Agnifilo (08:25)
• "Cassie is here because she wanted money, not because she wanted to charge him with a crime." — Cindy Crawford (23:23)
• "She was playing both Kid Cudi and Sean Diddy Combs." — Cindy Crawford (23:57)
• "You gotta wonder as a juror... which one are you gonna feel? Which one are you gonna remember?" — Cindy Crawford (29:06)

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Note: The timestamps provided correspond to the sections within the transcript where the quotes appear, offering listeners a precise reference to the discussions.

Transcript

[Cindy Crawford]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Justin Richmond]

This is Justin Richmond from Broken Record. Are you the kind of person who sets standards for themselves? Like personally, I told myself if the Lakers lose their do or die Game five, I wouldn't let it impact my mood at home with family. The standard Lexus has set for themselves is to experience amazing. Lexus measures success by the feelings and emotions evoked in a driver, like exhilaration and joy. Amazing can only be achieved by knowing people on a deeper level. The standard of amazing results in machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing Experience Amazing at your.

[Maui Mandel]

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[Terry]

We know some people can't read the career warning signs like your boss still not knowing your name.

[Carrie]

You, Tina, Lisa, Sheila, whatever. Get that report to me by lunch, okay? It's Carrie. Just get it done.

[Terry]

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[Carrie]

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[Mark Agnifilo]

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[Carrie]

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[Mark Agnifilo]

It is Friday, June 27th, and the defense closing argument is underway in the Diddy trial. And lead attorney Mark Agnafillo is on fire. Welcome everybody, to this Diddy update edition of Amy and tj. I get his name right today?

[Cindy Crawford]

Yes, yes. Well, we at least knew what it was instead of some Italian last name that begins with an A.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Okay, everybody's gonna know how to say his name after today. This dude is on fire. He is right now robes performing in stark contrast to what it seemed the prosecution did in their five hour closing yesterday.

[Cindy Crawford]

He is actually making fun in a lot of ways of the prosecution's seven week long presentation. And you and I both said this, if I were charged with a crime, this is the man who I would want defending me because he's found a way to use common sense and, and humor to appeal to the jurors. He comes off as making a lot of logical sense and connecting the dots that completely point away from the prosecution's argument.

[Mark Agnifilo]

No charts, no graphics, no nothing. He made that point when he started. He said, I'm not going to do that. Not going to put some more screens, something for you to read because you know what they say, screens are bad for your eyes. Anyway, like, he's speaking in that kind of colloquial way that everybody can understand. And I say, speak. We're sitting here acting as if we can hear his audio. You and I have been reading a live book.

[Cindy Crawford]

I said, I've never actually been sitting in a room and been so entertained. And that's exactly how I described it. It's as if I'm turning a page and reading a fascinating book that's happening in real time. That's the best way I can describe what it's been like all morning long for us as we have been following along note by note, we've got multiple news outlets, court reporters, live updates popping up. And we'll say, did you just see this one? Did you just hear that one? Because Mark Agnifillo is just coming off with one quip after the next. And they're memorable and they are making a serious impression.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yeah, and he warned. I say warned, but he gave everybody a heads up. He said, I'm not going to use screens like we mentioned. But he said, I'm going to be pacing a lot. And sure enough, they said he is essentially racing, moving back and forth right in front of the jury box. His voice is going high, so high pitch is cracking at times. Like he is just Putting on. They are not bored today.

[Cindy Crawford]

No.

[Mark Agnifilo]

In the courtroom.

[Cindy Crawford]

And they said he's gesticulating, he's. He's theatrical. I mean, and so you can't take your eyes off of him. And the one thing that's missing from the reporting that you and I have noted, and we talked about this a little bit yesterday, and we looked up if there was some law or some rule against court reporters describing jurors reactions. And our reaction has been fairly animated here, hearing what Mark is saying or at least reading what Mark is saying. And I was desperate to know what the jurors faces look like as he is cracking jokes because honestly, I know this is not a laughing matter. We're talking about serious, heinous, disgusting allegations. And I have found myself. And I've watched you two. We are laughing.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yeah. Because he's cracking jokes. We got. We're going to give you more of his quotes in a second. But Rose, before he even got to get started this morning. Here we go. Once again, there was another juror issue. Nothing too terrible, but it seems once again the juror throwing off the schedule.

[Cindy Crawford]

There was a transit issue.

[Mark Agnifilo]

That's how all they said it was, a transit issue.

[Cindy Crawford]

I mean, look, we live in New York City. We understand it's tough.

[Mark Agnifilo]

It's commuting every day.

[Cindy Crawford]

So you always have to give yourself, literally no matter where you're going, at least an extra 30 minutes. And sometimes you'll be early, and sometimes you'll even still be a little late. I mean, you cannot know what your commute's going to be day in and day out.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Okay, well, a transit issue. This is kind of a big one. 30 minutes. Court was delayed a full 30 minutes. Today of all days. I ropes. I have to say it was there a more highly anticipated. We've had highly anticipated witnesses that delivered on testimony we were expecting. But this maybe is the most highly anticipated day of this trial. And sure enough, we were left waiting even longer. It was just weird that it happened on this day of all days.

[Cindy Crawford]

I would say in the entire time we have been watching this and many of the. I say watching. I always say this because it feels like we've been watching it, monitoring what's going on in the courtroom. This has been, and I hate to use the word entertaining, but it has been the most entertaining day that I can recall of this entire trial.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yeah. And we'll. You'll understand why here in just a sec. But Rob, we talk about agniphillo. Yes, there were a lot of theatrics but he was much more than style. He brought the substance, and he made clear at the top, it seemed the direction he was going to go. Said, this is a trial of a lifestyle.

[Cindy Crawford]

Correct. This is not a criminal enterprise. This is not some mob boss enterprise. He said, this is someone's lifestyle. And he said, okay, so he liked threesomes. Okay, so he likes some kinky stuff, basically, is what he was saying. But that's not a crime. That's certainly not racketeering, and it's not all of the other. He. He was making light and making fun of the charges that the government brought against his clients, saying, get real, people. Come on. Basically kind of saying, none of you actually are buying this. Right. Because he liked some kinky sex because he likes threesomes. This is. He's on trial for his lifestyle, not for crimes that he committed.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yeah. It was as close as to a legal. Really, dude? As you can get.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah. He said, yeah. He said, you want to call it swingers? You want to call it threesomes? That's what it is. That's what the evidence shows. That was his quote.

[Mark Agnifilo]

But we go through. And again, we're talking about. Yes. I mean, what Diddy did behind closed doors, fine. But he's being charged for doing that stuff behind closed doors the same way they prosecuted mobsters. And he made that point about the racketeering. He called this, he said, one of the most serious, complicated, comprehensive statutes on the books. They applied it to personal use, drugs and threesomes.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, that's just.

[Mark Agnifilo]

He kind of broke it one sentence. He said, this is what we're doing here.

[Cindy Crawford]

We talked about this yesterday in both of our episodes with the prosecution's presentation, their closing arguments. It, in one word, was complicated. We felt overwhelmed. And, yes, that's why they had graphs and charts and displays, because it is so confusing how they're trying to take specific instances and then apply them to this very confusing but very serious charge that in one case in the racketeering charges could put Diddy away for life. And so it was heavy and dark and serious and complicated. Like, my brain hurt trying to see how they were doing. Right.

[Mark Agnifilo]

It's legal and technical, and I guess you're supposed to take this all by the book. Right? But we're human beings, and a lot of this stuff goes beyond just what's in a statute. And he could. This dude makes common sense if you're just talking to him and listening to both of them. I was like, yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. This doesn't make any Sense. Why are we here for this. He likes some sex and now he racketeering. What? That's just kind of common sense.

[Cindy Crawford]

So as a juror, you're sitting there and you kind of said, he reminded you a little bit, just in terms of what we're reading and how he's been able to simplify the issues and make it feel relatable in a weird way, kind of. You said he felt very Johnnie Cochran esque to you.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Johnny was brilliant. We all know that. But he was a performer in the. We saw him perform for months on television. And to this day, anybody right now, I say Johnnie Cochran. Hey, give me a quote of Johnnie Cochran. You can tell me one. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit. This is what this guy is doing. It feels like in court today. He is speaking to you in colloquial, commonsensical terms you can relate to. And go, ah, that makes sense.

[Cindy Crawford]

And he also brought in the DEI thing. I thought he had a couple current event moments where he related what was going on. And he talked about DEI. He said, Sean Diddy Combs has been DEI ing since the 1990s. 90s. You know, he has employed all of these folks. He. And he said this. Sean Combs has become something that is very, very hard to be. He's a self made, successful black entrepreneur. And that had to hit home for some of the jurors.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yeah, he. Wait, he's. He's this rare thing and that. Why does he end up here for that?

[Cindy Crawford]

Because he likes threesomes and because he likes to swing.

[Mark Agnifilo]

So why is this rarity in the black community being brought to this type of scrutiny? That seems kind of rare, too. At least he, he, he found a way in. Just making a factual statement to put something in your mind to think about.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, he, he also made a reference to the jaws 50th anniversary. It's like, you know the famous line from Jaws, we're going to need another boat. Another. Sorry, we're going to need a bigger boat. He said something like, we're gonna need more crimes tape scene. It's a crime scene tape because of what they're trying to piece together and pull together to create this seemingly elaborate criminal enterprise. You know, he's like, they're just trying to make more out of something that actually isn't a crime.

[Mark Agnifilo]

We should make the point. We were talking about this yesterday after hearing the prosecution's case. We were like, wow. Wow.

[Cindy Crawford]

We were.

[Mark Agnifilo]

You know what? That sounds right? Yep. Two count, two cases. Yep. That sounds Right.

[Cindy Crawford]

I mean, how are they going to get out of that? Because, like, what they're saying, he actually probably did. So, like, wait, how are they going to get out of this?

[Mark Agnifilo]

We predicted that. Sure enough, we're going to hear the defense. And sure enough, listening to him today, like, wow, that. Oh, wow, oh, wow. On everything he said. Now we were talking about how entertaining he was. Robes. He flat out made fun.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yes.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Of the investigators and some of these searches and how they are getting bad people and things off the streets.

[Cindy Crawford]

Oh, my goodness. Yes. He went off about making America safe from Astro Glide is what he basically said. He's like, thank goodness we had those raids. Thank goodness that we were able to have these federal prosecutors swoop in to Diddy's house to find boxes of Astroglide taken off the streets. He said, whoo, I feel better already. Artificial lubricant. Not for me. The streets of America are safe from the Astroglide. It's hard not to chuckle when he puts it like that.

[Mark Agnifilo]

You can, you can. You can hear sarcasm in words. That's remarkable. He actually gave them a, an attaboy. Said, way to go, fellas. That's a quote. He said, way to go, fellas. You guys just. Do you. They took Astro Glide and baby oil. And that is the evidence in this case.

[Cindy Crawford]

Man, that's effective. It is so effective because we're talking.

[Mark Agnifilo]

About some of the most serious charges. But we go through what they collected from this serious criminal. Not guns. Right. There was some at the house, but he's not accused.

[Cindy Crawford]

There was no gun related violence other than, I believe, with the Capricorn Clark instance. She said he brought a gun with her. But there's no, there's no evidence of him brandishing a gun or threatening someone with the gun. So the guns don't really.

[Mark Agnifilo]

In terms of hit, you got the FBI raiding a home. In terms of the threat that they just got off the street from the search were boxes and boxes of Astroglide, not drugs to be distributed. Astroglide. And so he's. The way I'm saying it here is the way you can imagine them hearing it. Like, oh, really?

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah. It was like a. I think the, the worst thing in terms of the drugs was it a Gucci fanny pack or a Gucci bag that had some drugs in it. Yeah. Even that was just comical because of how. What. What it was housed in. Not even the fact that there were. So if there were just unbelievable amounts of drugs, they would have pointed out there was this amount of this. There was that Amount of this, they couldn't even do that.

[Mark Agnifilo]

You know, the other. He saved a lot of his mocking for Capricorn Clark, who was an assistant, said she was okay. Two different occasions she said she was kidnapped. One of them robes was when she. He said, she said, did. He came to her house, said he had a gun, said, you're coming with me right now. And this is when they were going to see Kid Cudi the other time. And this is the one the attorney was mocking a lot when she said she had to be subjected to a lie detector test for almost a week on a floor of an abandoned building by a bodyguard or something, a goon from Diddy. And the attorney went to town on that one.

[Cindy Crawford]

He certainly did. He said she was kidnapped and then returned back to her home each night and then returned back with the kidnapper each day. And he kind of made it. Well, he didn't kind of. He made a reference to the jurors. He said, kind of like you all being forced to come back to court each day and sit here and listen to this. Do any of you feel kidnapped? That's effective. Once again, what do you do with that? He also made a joke about the time that Capricorn Clark, you just mentioned it, said she felt like she had to go with Diddy to go confront Kid Cudi, that she believed he had a gun. He said she was probably so excited that he came to her house, she would have gone to the moon with him.

[Mark Agnifilo]

He didn't need to show a gun, is his point. Like he didn't have. He didn't need to threaten her with anything.

[Cindy Crawford]

And there's no proof that he did have one.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yeah. So it's those ways that we listened to all that testimony, and it sounded like a harrowing, scary night. And I'm sure a lot of what they talked about and she testified to was true, but he simplified it in such a way that makes you simply have to question what you heard. And this was a good point on the Capricorn testimony. He told them during his closing today, like, the judge is going to instruct you that if you know that a witness lied to you once, that means you have the right to disregard everything that came out of their mouth and testimony.

[Cindy Crawford]

Wow. Wow. And so we knew obviously he was going to. Mark was going to have to address this domestic violence issue. And he handled it so well. And it's hard to. That's hard to even have that come out of my mouth. He handled the domestic violence issues so well. It's in the way that he said it, he said, we own it. Diddy did it. And if he had been charged with it, you wouldn't be here because he would have pled guilty. That also totally rang true for me and made you. Actually, you're going along with him on his narrative because he says things where they have to admit harsh truths. And yet then when they say, but this didn't happen, okay, that happened, and we'll admit it freely. But just because it.

[Mark Agnifilo]

He.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yes. Admits that he beat Cassie doesn't mean that any of these other charges are true, because he's not charged with that. And he wanted that to be there. And he pointed out we are here because of money. And when he started laying out why the jury's here, why his client is facing charges, when he put it very plainly, Diddy is here because of money, that was powerful.

[Mark Agnifilo]

All right, well, folks, stay with us here. When we come back, we're gonna get more into that money argument he was making and why the attorney called Cassie Ventura, fine gangsta, in court today.

[Justin Richmond]

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[Terry]

We know some people can't read the career warning signs like your boss. Still not knowing your name.

[Carrie]

You, Tina, Lisa, Sheila, whatever. Get that report to me by lunch, okay? It's Carrie, ma' am. Just get it done, Terry.

[Terry]

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[Cindy Crawford]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but.

[Carrie]

Like, I never liked being told, oh.

[Cindy Crawford]

Wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that?

[Carrie]

Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age.

[Cindy Crawford]

That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about.

[Carrie]

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[Cindy Crawford]

Confident in your skin at the age you are now.

[Carrie]

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[Mark Agnifilo]

All right, folks, we're going to continue now discussion of what has been the first half, I guess, of closing arguments delivered by the lead attorney for defense team, Mark Agniflo. One of these days I'm gonna get it right. Mr. Agnifillo, my apologies, but robes. Before we took a short break there, we were talking about. And he was talking about Cassie Ventura. Fine. Plenty today. And you know, part of. She was an eight and a half months pregnant woman. You're hearing terrible stories about what she went through. We remember all the video. But in describing her today, he made her sound like a much different person.

[Cindy Crawford]

He certainly did. He. And again, he did not deny that she was beaten. He did not deny that his client beat her. But he made this very direct point that he said, Cassie right now is sitting somewhere in the world with $30 million. She filed that lawsuit. Which of course caught the Attention of the feds. Diddy paid her $20 million the following day. And I did not know this. The Hotel Intercontinental, where that beating that we all saw on that surveillance video took place, that they paid her $10 million. And so she was. She did not go to the police. She did not ask that the police charge him with a crime. She asked for money. And that is why Diddy is sitting in a defendant chair today.

[Mark Agnifilo]

No one is arguing that she earned, was owed, maybe even owed more than the 20 million that he gave her. The point there in front of a jury in a criminal case, though, is that she didn't even want to bring charges. It's that this is maybe something else to this that is not about criminal enterprise.

[Cindy Crawford]

Right.

[Mark Agnifilo]

And that is the effective way he made the case. He didn't just call her a bad person, but he did make some suggestions during his closing that she was being manipulative and played two guys.

[Cindy Crawford]

He said he was. She was playing both Kid Cudi and Sean Diddy Combs, that she was not being truthful to either one of them. And when he started going down that narrative, he said she even had a burner phone to basically keep two guys on the side without the other one knowing about the other. And he. That's when he said, cassie's keeping a gangster with the. Ooh. With the burner phone. I mean, he really went to town with her on that one. I thought that was very interesting. And again, it is so relatable because you start looking at Cassie differently when he puts it that way. She wasn't. Look, no one's arguing that she was a victim of domestic violence and domestic abuse. And certainly listening or at least reading her testimony, it is gutting. It is horrific to hear for any human what she underwent. But then he made the point. She eventually left Diddy because she wanted to. That's not coercion. That's not being under someone's control, under a threat of. She left freely when she wanted to.

[Mark Agnifilo]

The suggestion being she could have done that at any point. That's the. The legal arguments. Look, they have to consider law stat. They're going to get all that stuff to go through. But just sitting there as a human being on the jury that he is, he's appealing to common sense and emotion. He's appealing to them in a different way outside of a legal book.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnifilo]

And it seems right now, at least on paper, we're not in the room, but it sounds like he is putting on a show.

[Cindy Crawford]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And speaking of money, he didn't just point out Cassie. He pointed out Jane, who of course was Diddy's other girlfriend, who testified under that pseudonym, who was such a big part of the prosecution's case. He said on Jane, I hope she's having a nice day. But you know where she's doing it? In a house he's paying for.

[Mark Agnifilo]

That was a part of a whole section where he was talking about he has taken care of is what he does. He takes care of people. And that was one of the things he pointed out. But he pointed it out in a sarcastic way.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, but again, one that reads true for all the jurors. In fact, when you talked about him caring for people, he started his closing arguments pointing out all of Diddy's family who have been in the courtroom for most of the trial, including his children. He said, these folks are here because they love him and because he takes care of his own. And he even talked about all the folks who were his employees. He said, okay, they didn't maybe always like him, but they loved him. And they've even testified to that fact. Even if they saw the worst of him at times, they all still wanted to be there. They all still wanted to be employed by him.

[Mark Agnifilo]

What was it he confessed, though? That working for Diddy is like drinking.

[Cindy Crawford]

Out of a fire hose.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yeah.

[Carrie]

So.

[Mark Agnifilo]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

So, like, there's honest acknowledgments and admissions that he has a strong personality that isn't for everyone and certainly violent at times, but he's not this mob boss evildoer that the prosecution is trying to paint, according to the defense.

[Mark Agnifilo]

The last thing here, I want to point out that he said, which was very powerful and quietly effective, and he used Cassie even to refine as his witness with her own words. And Rosie went back to when the video first came out on cnn. We all saw Embider in the hallway. She had an outpouring of people reaching out to her with sympathy and support and things like that. And she went online and she made an Instagram post, I believe it was, in which she said, domestic violence is the issue.

[Cindy Crawford]

And that is when Mark said, believe her, believe Cassie. Domestic violence is the issue. And that has been, I would say, the foundation of the defense's argument that Diddy isn't responsible and certainly isn't and can't be proved, that all of these other he claims made up charges or trumped up charges against him have nothing to do with the actual issue, which is domestic violence. And that they've admitted it and they want that to be what the jurors see. Yes. And everything that they presented in terms of the videos that. That has all pointed to that it's undeniable, but it's nothing more than that, is what the defense is saying. And that was. Yeah. He said, believe Cassie. Believe her at her own words.

[Mark Agnifilo]

He was like, dad, don't take our word for it.

[Cindy Crawford]

Listen to her, man.

[Mark Agnifilo]

That is fascinating. So he has been. Look. And there is a difference. It's hard for us to read the prosecution for five hours talking about legal statutes and if it matches this time over here. But this person over here is a part of the enterprise, but doesn't know. But then they have. That's tougher to read. We have to admit. This has been entertaining as hell. Just to read. Just to read. So they have two totally different approaches and styles you can see in the two sides.

[Cindy Crawford]

You gotta wonder as a juror, you know, if you're presented with all of these overwhelming facts and flowcharts, and then you get this larger than life theatrical attorney speaking to you in common sense terms, which one are you gonna feel? Which one are you gonna remember? Which one are you gonna take with you into the deliberation room?

[Mark Agnifilo]

You know, you make a good point. And you reminded me of something I want to make sure I read to our audience here. Here it is. And I don't know. Damn it. I want to give her credit. I think it's from the Washington Post, the reporter. But to your point about the attorney, Agnafillo, and I'm just going to quote everything she says about what she saw in the room. In contrast, in stark contrast to the prosecution's very structured and neutral closing argument. Defense attorney Mark Agnifolo has been animated and theatrical, pacing in front of the jury box, his voice raised and almost cracking at certain points as he bellowed and mocked the government in his final remarks. A freewheeling Agnafillo, who has referred periodically to his notepad, has gone on long rifts. There are no visual aids so far, something the lawyer highlighted to jurors, perhaps in an attempt to appear more authentic. It's risky. Jurors could just as easily read this performance as erratic.

[Cindy Crawford]

Wow. Yeah. You know, and we're not in the room, so we don't know how he's coming off. Is he. It's reading very, very relatable. But maybe he's coming off as inauthentic. Maybe he's coming off as too much. It's hard to know. Yeah. Performative. It's hard to know what these jurors are thinking, are they looking at him skeptically? Are they looking at him as if maybe it's even like some last like almost where he's being overly dramatic because he's afraid of what the truth is. You know, he's trying to mask or at least cover up or confuse them from the facts. And they might be skeptical because, you know, most people aren't huge fans of attorneys in general. They're not necessarily considered the most trustworthy of folks. So who knows where these jurors, what lens they're looking through as they're watching Mark and maybe the more just measured specific charts and flowcharts and that maybe that appeals to them more, it's hard to say.

[Mark Agnifilo]

But the other side to that about him, is it possible they're eating it up?

[Cindy Crawford]

It is possible. And that's why watching courtrooms is fascinating because and every in each juror could respond to each attorney very differently. It's hard to know collectively what they're thinking and we won't know until they get into that deliberation room. But certainly we will continue to to monitor the wild events in that lower Manhattan courtroom throughout the day. Today we will have a part two, a bonus episode dropping when the defense rests its case. We're expecting a rebuttal from the prosecution and then the judge is expected to charge the jury, give them their instructions for deliberation. So a lot more to come in the Diddy trial. So stay with us. We will be back this afternoon. Foreign.

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[Cindy Crawford]

This is an iHeart podcast.