← Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
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A
This is an iHeart podcast.
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You don't need to be ripped, you just need the right shirt. Epic Fits gives you a clean, confident silhouette. Snug on the arms, soft on the skin, generous where it counts, and with deals like $15 per tee, they won't break the bank. Visit epicfits.com today. Epic fits t shirts that get it I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip hop.
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A
It's Black Music Month, and we need the talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Sim breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices and digging into the culture that shapes the soundtrack of our lives.
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Like that's what's really important and that's what stands out, is that our music changes people's lives for the better.
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A
Let's talk about the music that moves us to hear this and more on how music and culture collide. Listen to we need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
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B
Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, the host of the number one health and wellness podcast in the world. On Purpose. On On Purpose, I sit down with some of the most fascinating minds, from world class athletes to wellness experts and thought leaders to uncover their secrets to living a happier, more meaningful life. If you're looking for inspiration, tools for growth, and real conversations that challenge you to think differently, listen to on purpose on the iHearheart radio app, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, June 26, and closing arguments are underway in the Diddy trial. Welcome to this Diddy update edition of Amy and tj. First robes. Can you just believe it? Closing arguments. Seven weeks of this trial. This has been going on for. We've been engulfed in this for so long.
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A
Almost over in a weird way because we've been following it so closely for these past seven weeks. Time has flown by. I actually can't believe it's almost been two months. And yes, to your point, it feels crazy that it's over or it's about to be over.
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B
Yeah. And as we speak, folks, as this recording closing arguments are underway, the prosecution is going first. Christy Slavic is handling. Handling it for the prosecution. But Rose, we got a better idea this morning. It seems like every day there's a new update to the schedule that is a little surprising to us. But we've. I think this is it now. This is going to be the schedule.
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A
Yes. So the prosecution is going to finish its closing arguments today. The defense is not Going to begin its closing arguments until Friday. And after the defense gives its closing arguments, the prosecution will have a chance for rebuttal. And then of course, the judge has to give the jury instructors instructions that they hammered out and yesterday. So for sure, I think we can say we thought we were sure, but now we're 100% sure. Okay, 99.9% sure that the jury won't even begin to start their deliberations until Monday at the earliest.
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B
Okay, so going with that schedule again, both sides said they needed four hours. So help me with this ropes. They said they needed four hours, but were they thinking two for the closing and then two for rebuttal? Or is this closing going to be four, then the defense is going to do four, and then the rebuttal could be how long? Yeah, see, I'm confused now about how. Because now Friday could be a hell of a day for the jury if they have to listen to four hours of the defense and then another hour, two hours prosecution and then jury instruction.
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A
So according to court reporters, from what I have been able to deduce, they say that today will be a shorter day. Thursday and tomorrow will be what they described as a long day. So I think it'll be what they can get in. And I don't know how long. It seems as though the prosecution is going to or expects to take four hours today. And then who knows how long the rebuttal will be. It might be dependent upon what they hear from the defense. So they might. That might be fluid. That might not even be set in stone right now in terms of. Because how would you know what to rebut until you hear what the defense actually presents?
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B
Okay, and what do we make of this? What the judge is saying about the deliberation schedule? He said he's going to kind of leave it in the hands of the jury for what their deliberation schedule is going to be. I mean, how much leeway do they exactly get? They can have full control. But what did he mean? I didn't fully understand.
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A
I imagine that, you know, they have given up so much of their time. Perhaps if some members of the jury need to be home by three or some, you know, some jury members need to be able to get their kids off to school. They might be able to deliberate among themselves to pick the hours that work best for the group. And maybe the foreman decides it might be the first chance that they all have to actually collectively make a decision on something before they actually make a decision on the verdict. They'll make a Decision collectively on their timeline.
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B
I'm not used to hearing that.
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A
I'm not either, no. Usually they say jury reports at this time and court is out or at least deliberations will end at this time.
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B
But sometimes the judge will ask the jury, do you all want to go a little later today? Sometimes I've seen that, but I've never seen. I can imagine. I mean if you were, if you're a juror right now, they say how. What would you like your hours to be? What would you ask for?
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A
I would like to have as long of a day as possible to get it done as quickly as I could. I wouldn't want to keep coming back each day. So give me a nine hour day and a quick lunch instead of having to come back day after day after day. Especially if some of these folks, they have jobs, they have lives they're missing, what do they get? 50 bucks a day, you know? And some folks are hourly wages. Hourly wages. They don't have salaries, they're not getting paid by their work. So I would think there would be a motivation to go ahead and put in the work each day instead of extending the days that you have to deliberate.
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B
Would you work through the weekend?
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A
No. No, I don't think so. No. Everybody needs a break. Everybody needs a break.
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B
That's a good point. So we're still waiting on that part to fill in about the schedule. But it looks like we do have a better idea of how this thing is going to go now. How this is going to go with the, with the prosecution, the case they're trying to make. We've gotten a little insight. We've listen to the first at least hour plus now of the prosecution doing its close and they are using this word over and over and over. Enterprise, Enterprise, Enterprise. He was the head of a. Enterprise. Enterprise, Enterprise. They first started with robes, this racketeering conspiracy charge, which is the one that has the highest possible sentence. He could get life in prison for this thing. And they are trying to build and explain to them piece by piece why he was the head of a criminal enterprise. This is why. This is kidnapping, this is drug distribution. So they really piecing this thing together and it's, to be honest with you, it's kind of. Some of the legalities of it is hard to follow.
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A
Exactly. So right when they're getting specific about. And they've really been focusing right now at least on the racketeering charge because that is of course as you point out, the most serious one. So apparently they're giving the jurors this instruction, the prosecution is there are four elements to convict on a racketeering charge. Those elements are conspiracy to participate in criminal enterprise having an impact on state and foreign commerce. They say Diddy was knowingly part of that enterprise and then the enterprise agreed to commit at least two crimes. So it. That's. I'm already confused. So basically, someone Diddy would have had to have commitment, committed two individual acts in any of these categories. Kidnapping, arson, bribery, drug distribution, sex trafficking, interstate transport for prostitute, prostitution, forced labor, witness tampering and obstruction. My head's already spinning.
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B
And we put this in here, folks. Not to say it so you would understand it, but for you to understand why it's so confusing and what these jurors now have to deal with. That's just one little example we gave you. There's tons of this stuff in there. Trying to piece through what was the thing they did. The prosecution took out part of the jury instruction. What was it? They wanted the attempted kidnapping taken out. They just wanted the word attempted taken out. Because if you have attempted in there, it's such a confusing bit of our legal code that they have to figure out if you use the word attempted, they just said the hell with it. Take attempted out. And we just want to say kidnapping. He was kidnapping, folks. Well, it's my. How can they get through this quickly?
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A
So I don't know. That's the number one thing I'd like to impart to everyone listening. I don't know. I feel for the jury. They again, they've been sitting and listening to this testimony. Some of it fascinating, some of it gripping and even maybe a little entertaining. But this is heavy stuff because someone's life is on the line and it is so technical and there are so many categories that you have to say yes or no to or maybe I, I don't know. But I cannot imagine this deliberation is going to be quick. Even if you have a feeling about what you think, you still have to go through each charge and you have to go through the legalities of each charge and what it takes. Did the prosecution prove these specific things beyond a reasonable doubt? And this is again, like you said, this is just the conspiracy. Sorry, this is just the racketeering charge.
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B
So to that point, again, they're talking about, let's say the kidnapp charge. We've been hearing about kidnapping. He was. He kidnapped someone. We all know what kidnapping or we think we know what kidnapping is. Well, kidnapping here is just restricting Cassie's movements because he didn't want her to leave a hotel room because he wanted her wounds to heal first. Okay, that could sound like a stretch, like kidnap. I know what kidnapping is, but that's a very technical term and a technical definition of kidnapping. But they might have to figure out that kind of stuff. I do not know how they. I will be deliberating for weeks with these folks.
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A
That has happened before. It's not. It's not often, but this is that complicated. And then, of course, you have Capricorn Clark, who claims she was kidnapped by one of Diddy's bodyguards and held against her will, she says, for five days, and she says with a lie detector test, because his. His jewelry went missing. And she didn't have an explanation as to why his diamond jewelry went missing. She said she was threatened by his bodyguard, that they were going to throw her in the Hudson River. So we do have that direct testimony, but is it provable? It's her word against his word.
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B
Yeah, but she also. He kidnapped her because he came to her house and said, come with me, and she came. So that's kidnapping. Right?
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A
That.
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B
Those kinds of legal questions, if the guy is, I mean, charge him with kidnapping is one thing, but is he running a criminal enterprise because he's a drug addict, maniac madman, terrible boss and domestic abuser?
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A
Yeah, I mean, it's. It is a lot. It's a huge mountain of evidence, and it's a huge mountain to climb to prove. Because what the prosecution has already started to tell the jurors is he had an enterprise of people working for him. He couldn't do this all on his own. He couldn't have done what they say he did to these women if he didn't have people helping him. And that created more of a force. So these women felt like they couldn't say no because they weren't just going up against one person. They were going up against all of his employees. And they said even if the lower level employees didn't know crimes were being committed, they were still being used, as I think they said the term foot soldiers.
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B
See, and then I wondered, I thought a big part of proving this case had to be that the folks had to be willing, had to be knowing participants in that enterprise, in that crime taking place. I thought that's so.
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A
No. They're saying as long as it was just Diddy using people to enforce what he was trying to control and what he was trying to get and within what he wanted to get, involved criminality, it didn't matter if the people who were doing his bidding knew it was criminal or not, or knew what was going on behind those closed doors in those hotel rooms. So yes, their participation wasn't necessary for them to know that it was a criminal act.
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B
See, we've been covering this or watching this closer than anybody probably listening, and we still are trying to piece this together. You don't need to be ripped. You just need the right shirt. Epic Fits gives you a clean, confident silhouette. Snug on the arms, soft on the skin, generous where it counts. And with deals like $15 per tee, they won't break the bank. Visit epicfits.com today. Epic fits t shirts that get it.
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A
Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband. It's a cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day.
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B
The murder is out there.
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A
Every week on Helen Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try.
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B
She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never.
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A
Gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Helen Gone murder line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murderline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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B
What happens when we come face to face with death?
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My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. I just remember everything getting dark. I'm dying.
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B
When we step beyond the edge of.
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A
What we know, to open our consciousness to something more than just what's in that western box.
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In return, I clinically died. The heart stopped beating, which I was dead for 11.5 minutes. My name is Dan Bush. My mission is simple. To find, explore and share these stories.
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A
I'm not a victim.
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B
I'm a survivor.
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A
You're strongest when you're the most vulnerable.
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B
To remind us what it means to be alive. Not just that I was the guy.
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A
That cut his arm off, but I'm the guy who was smiling when he.
- [14:45]
B
Cut his arm Off Alive Again, a podcast about the fragility of life, the.
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A
Strength of the human spirit, and what.
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It means to truly live. Listen to Alive again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. She was a decorated veteran, a marine.
- [15:03]
A
Who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real?
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B
I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying.
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A
This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh.
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I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right?
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A
And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover the Truth About.
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B
Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip hop.
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A
It's Black Music Month, and we need the Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shapes the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud.
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When they hear my old tapes.
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A
Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now?
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B
Yeah, cuz I bring him on tour.
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With me and he's getting older now.
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B
Too, so his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is. And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like, really the goat. Like, he's a legend, so he gets it.
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What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me, just.
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B
Having a good catalog and just being able to make people good, like that's what's really important. And that's what stands out, is that my music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy. Or my family in general.
- [16:52]
A
Let's talk about the music that moves us to hear this and more on how music and culture collide. Listen to we need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This was interesting to me too, because the drug distribution, they're saying that's a huge part of their argument, that Diddy and his inner circle participated in what they say are hundreds of acts of Drug distribution. But they said if Diddy only did it twice, just twice, where he was asking his staff to get drugs and bring them to him, that would meet the criteria for racketeering conspiracy under the law. If he just twice did that. And I didn't realize that either.
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B
I mean, this is. I don't know what the lesser punishment. It's up to life in prison for that charge.
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A
Yes.
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B
I don't know what the statutes are. I don't know what it says, what the guidelines are of what lesser charge. Is there a minimum on that one? What does the chart. What does the sentence have to be? But that's when we. Yes, it's technically tech. It could technically legally be true. But you said it. This is a guy we talk about emotion involved. And you're just human beings on that stand. Am I sending him to life because he might have been a super freak and because he might have been a bad guy because he had a bit of drug addict and that. You could look at that and go, yeah, technically, by the law, he should be going to prison for the rest of his life. And maybe that's it. But there's so much, so many mitigating and complicated factors here.
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A
Well, I was gonna say something else that they were trying to impart to the jury. This idea that Diddy didn't take no for an answer, that he never took no for an answer. You couldn't tell him no. And that was part of his enterprise, that he had so much control over all of his employees and then who they claim are his sex trafficking victims as well, that he was a man who you had to say yes to.
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B
They also flat out said. Also she said a short time ago in court that of course he blew up Kid Cudi's car. I mean, the prosecutor, she just flat out said it to the jury in the closing, which nobody's now can object and now nobody can come back and necessarily rebutted in real time. She said no, he didn't cut the hole out in the top of the car. But she is asking the jury to essentially use common sense. Of course he was behind it. Of course he was. This is going to be a fascinating day. For four hours, they get to make their case once again, and they're taking folks through it piece by piece by piece. We do have a few quotes here, at least from the courtroom as well. And again, this is very early on, started this out. This might have been in the first sentence or two. He's the leader of a criminal enterprise. Right. This is the guy we all watch. What do we think we were watching? A media mogul, a music superstar, Superstar producer or music genius? I don't know. What do we think we were watching? They say we were watching a guy who was the head of a. He was a mob boss.
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A
Yeah. They described someone who spent most of his time, at least in the later years, organizing and fulfilling his deviant sexual fantasies. And it was literally almost his full time job at a certain point. And then getting other people, because he couldn't have done it all the way he did it unless he had people working for him, him and organizing it all and making it happen. And so, yeah, he said, excuse me. The prosecution said, I thought this was really interesting. These are not separate stories. They're all chapters in the same book. The prosecutor said the story of Sean Combs and the criminal enterprise he led. It is the same book. And so that's what they're trying to say. This is all a part of a larger grand scheme and that's where you get this racketeering charge.
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B
It's. It's just wild to think that the, the per. Isn't the argument here that the purpose of Bad Boy Entertainment was really to run sex trafficking? Is. Is that what we're. Is that the argument?
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A
It's what it sounds like in that we heard, and yet we heard Brandon Paul say it was 1% of his job. So I'm sure the defense is going to have plenty to say to counter what the prosecution is. The picture the prosecution is trying to paint right now that this was basically what Diddy did all the time, and he got his employees to make it happen pretty much at least weekly, but sometimes multiple times within the week.
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B
This is incredible. They called it a methodical pattern of violence and coercion and manipulation. Said Diddy thought that his fame, wealth and power put him above the law. But over the course of his trial, his crimes have been exposed and that's it. Right, Robes? The brutal crimes at the heart of this case. Sex trafficking. That's what they're saying. The brutal crimes at the heart of this case. Sex trafficking. That's. What's the sex trafficking charge? Two of them. Those are the ones that are 15 years minimum.
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A
Yes, yes.
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B
And then it's 10 years maximum on the prostitution charge. So the sex trafficking cases are very serious.
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A
You know, this is, this is overwhelming. And the fact that they, they came out with a bang. I have to say, she just. The prosecutor, prosecutor Chris D. Slavik has come out with a bang. Just listing, listing, listing. So I wonder now they'll go through methodically. It was described as, like, the most intense and complex PowerPoint presentation you've probably ever witnessed in your life. And that's what these jurors are witnessing right now in court today. And it's just begun. That's the crazy thing.
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B
Let me give you through all this. It's not a lot of. Every once in a while, we. We usually find a way to just have a laugh or a smile, you know, a little levity in. Some of these things have been brutal. This is at least one quote from Slavic that I think most people will find a little funny. Talking about Kid Cudi and saying that Diddy. Yes. Was behind the bombing of the man's car. She says, quote, of course the defendant was behind this. Now, it shouldn't come as a surprise to you that we're not suggesting the defendant personally cut the hole in Kid Cudi's Porsche. You heard the audio notes. The defendant didn't even buy his own soup.
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A
Wow.
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B
Okay. I'll give her that one.
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A
Okay.
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B
Okay.
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A
That might not be a Perry Mason moment like we saw with the defense, but that certainly was something that. That landed right. You're like, okay, that. Okay, fair. Fair point.
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B
You can't make the argument. Yeah, he would have. He had nothing to do with that. Well, yeah, of course he wouldn't. He didn't even buy his own soup.
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A
Yeah. And, you know, to get more specific about what Slavic said about this racketeering conspiracy, and I was talking about how all of the folks who got his soup and did his other bidding in terms of getting him drugs and everything else he needed. She said that the law recognizes when someone commits a crime as part of a group, they're more powerful and more dangerous. And she said that is what happened in this instant instance with Diddy. She said, obviously, Diddy was already a very powerful man, but he became more powerful and more dangerous because of the support of his inner circle and his businesses. And that is the enterprise that they're talking about that he created. And she acknowledged that. Yes. This does sound like and is more often associated with the Mafia or with organized crime. And that's where a lot of folks have been like, come on.
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B
Did she mention that?
- [24:23]
A
She did. She acknowledged that because people have been saying that from the start of this trial that maybe the prosecution is overreached. They're trying too hard to put him behind bars for too long. They could have just charged him with domestic abuse. They could. I don't know if there's a federal charge for that. But at least the state could have. But there could have been lesser charges that would have been easily provable, including drug charges, but they went for the big charge of racketeering. And she's. She acknowledged. Yes, that's usually where it is applied to. But in this case, it also applies.
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B
I missed that note. So. Yeah, I mean, whatever. But, yeah, she's. She's just kind of acknowledging this. Oh, wow, I missed that.
- [25:01]
A
Yes. She said the defendant used power, violence, and fear to get what he wanted. And that does sound like a mob boss.
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B
But that is hard to think of the five families of New York. Right. To think of what they operated, what they did, and tossing people in the river and taking out hits, and there's drugs and there's all this kind of racketeering and running. All that stuff going on is one thing. The dude was feeding his sexual desires. That was his ultimate aim, right?
- [25:37]
A
Yes. And it didn't matter, according to the prosecution, who he hurt, what he had to do. And he used physical violence as a form of intimidation to make sure that he kept people where he wanted them, including, yes, Cassie and Jane and the other women who we heard from during this trial. It's interesting, while all of this picture is being painted of Diddy as this mob boss, like, man, he's wearing this light blue sweater and a white collared shirt. He's pouring water from a carafe. But they said he's. So this was interesting to me, too. The court reporter said throughout the trial, he's been intense. He's been involved, he's been listening. But he seemed confident. And, you know, we even heard him with the judge jovially, you know, saying, thank you, and you're doing a good job. Just really confident. They said today his body language suggested that he was nervous. They said he was rubbing his palms together when the jury walked in, that he was shifting his weight from foot to foot. And that makes a lot of sense, because this is it.
- [26:39]
B
This is it.
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A
This is it. And this is the last word the prosecution. Well, the prosecution gets to have a rebuttal. But coming up, this is his last chance at defending himself and his last chance to make the jury believe that he is not responsible for these heinous crimes.
- [26:54]
B
Well, at least he's not a mob boss. I guess he's trying to make.
- [26:58]
A
Well, they're kind of saying he was a mob boss. Yes.
- [27:01]
B
Mob bosses. Last thing on this, because I. I love a lot of mob history. I do follow. But the purpose of the enterprise was to make money, right?
- [27:11]
A
Yes.
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B
And the crimes were all committed for the sake of making money for that enterprise.
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A
Correct.
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B
Diddy had an enterprise that was making money through music.
- [27:24]
A
Correct.
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B
And then that enterprise was used for the sex parties.
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A
It almost seems like the money was his side hustle to fund what his main goal was, which was to satisfy his sexual needs.
- [27:38]
B
But he is funding the criminal behavior versus the criminal behavior funding the enterprise. That's the opposite. I am blown away. They treat him like Fat Tony and.
- [27:49]
A
Right, yes. Yes. And it's. I think a lot of people thought that that was kind of a crazy notion, but the prosecution is leaning in and doubling down on that theory and whatever the money was there to make it happen. And they're saying that he used illegal means to get what he wanted.
- [28:08]
B
Fascinating, fascinating, fascinating. Well, folks, we're gonna hop back on again later today because, yeah, the second half of the prosecution's closing argument is going to be today. We're gonna hop back on and let you know how they close up, how they finish up today. But we always appreciate you listening now. I'm TJ Holmes alongside my partner, Amy Robach. We'll talk to y' all soon. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip hop.
- [28:40]
A
It's Black Music Month, and We need the Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone. Breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shapes the soundtrack of our lives.
- [28:49]
B
Like, that's what's really important, and that's what stands out, is that our music changes people's lives for the better.
- [28:55]
A
Let's talk about the music that moves us to hear this and more on how music and culture collide. Listen to we need the Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart podcast.