The Diddy Trial: VERDICTS REACHED!!! (but we have to wait to hear them!!!)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Diddy Trial: VERDICTS REACHED!!! (but we have to wait to hear them!!!)"

Hosted by Amy Robach and TJ Holmes via iHeartPodcasts, this episode provides an in-depth analysis of the latest developments in the high-profile trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. The hosts dissect the proceedings, offer expert opinions, and explore the potential implications of the jury's actions.

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1. Introduction

The episode begins with Amy Robach and TJ Holmes updating listeners on the significant milestone achieved in the Diddy trial. The jury has reached verdicts on four out of the five charges brought against Sean Combs, with deliberations continuing on the most severe charge of racketeering conspiracy.

Notable Quote:

TJ Holmes [00:37]: "Hey there, folks. It is Tuesday, July 1, and the jury has reached verdicts in the Diddy trial."

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2. Verdicts on Four of Five Counts

Robach and Holmes discuss the implications of the jury's decision to render verdicts on four charges while reserving judgment on the racketeering conspiracy charge. They analyze what this partial verdict signifies for Combs and the overall trajectory of the trial.

Notable Quote:

Amy Robach [02:20]: "Yes, they are stuck on the racketeering conspiracy charge. That, of course, is the one that was the most confusing and complex and the one that would send Diddy to prison for the rest of his life."

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3. Focus on the Racketeering Conspiracy Charge

The hosts delve into the complexities of the racketeering charge, explaining why it poses the most significant threat to Combs' freedom and reputation. They explore the nature of racketeering laws and how they apply to high-profile individuals like Combs.

Notable Quote:

Taylor Holmes [06:33]: "How could you lean not guilty. Guilty. How could you look at this and lean and possibly think, well, they did it that quickly. How could you lean not guilty?"

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4. Jury Dynamics and Decision-Making

Robach and Holmes examine the jury's behavior and the possible reasons behind their swift verdicts on the lesser charges. They speculate on the presence of an "unpersuadable" juror influencing the outcome, particularly regarding the racketeering charge.

Notable Quote:

Amy Robach [07:30]: "That person has not voted not guilty on counts two through five."

TJ Holmes [07:35]: "That is a hunt. That's a done deal."

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5. Judge's Instructions and Jury Deliberations

The episode covers the judge's role in guiding the jury through their deliberations. Robach and Holmes discuss the options the judge had, including issuing an Allen charge, and how he ultimately chose to instruct the jury to continue deliberating on the remaining charge without pressure.

Notable Quote:

TJ Holmes [10:37]: "They had to argue fight over what's the right language to give back to the jury."

Amy Robach [12:13]: "The jury went back out of the room and shortly thereafter they sent a note back to the judge saying, hey, we're done for the day."

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6. Emotional and Personal Reactions

The hosts highlight the emotional toll the trial is taking on all parties involved, including Combs' family, who have been present throughout the proceedings. They underscore the gravity of waiting for the final verdict on the most severe charge.

Notable Quote:

Amy Robach [17:24]: "Your fate has been decided on four or five counts and you have to sit and still wait to hear about what they think on that most serious charge."

TJ Holmes [17:43]: "Your fate has been decided on four or five counts and you have to sit and still wait to hear about what they think on that most serious charge."

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7. Potential Outcomes and Speculative Analysis

Robach and Holmes speculate on possible outcomes depending on how the jury resolves the racketeering charge. They consider scenarios such as unanimous guilt, mixed verdicts, or potential acquittals, discussing the legal ramifications of each.

Notable Quote:

Amy Robach [08:35]: "There are a myriad of possibilities. They're not necessarily all guilty or all not guilty. It could be a mix."

TJ Holmes [09:17]: "If I were a betting man, I would take that scenario you just laid out."

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8. Conclusion and Forward Look

In concluding the episode, Robach and Holmes acknowledge the ongoing nature of the trial and the anticipation surrounding the final verdict. They express appreciation for the listeners' engagement and hint at future updates as the situation develops.

Notable Quote:

TJ Holmes [16:44]: "You know what? I am again, I'm not being curd with this... the fate of Sean Diddy Combs on four of five counts."

Amy Robach [20:48]: "We appreciate you being along with us, but for now, I'm TJ Holmes, along with my board of Amy Robach. We'll talk to you all soon."

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Key Takeaways

• Partial Verdicts: The jury has delivered verdicts on four of the five charges against Sean Combs, leaving the racketeering charge pending.

• Racketeering Charge Significance: This charge is the most severe, potentially resulting in life imprisonment, and poses the greatest threat to Combs' freedom.

• Jury Behavior: Indications suggest an "unpersuadable" juror may be influencing the final decision, particularly concerning the racketeering charge.

• Judge's Role: The judge opted not to issue an Allen charge, instead instructing the jury to continue deliberations without added pressure.

• Emotional Impact: The trial has had a profound emotional effect on Combs' family and those closely following the case.

• Possible Outcomes: The final verdict could range from unanimous guilt to a mix of guilty and not guilty, depending on the jury's resolution of the remaining charge.

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For listeners seeking comprehensive coverage and expert analysis of the Diddy trial, this episode of Amy Robach and TJ Holmes' podcast offers valuable insights into one of the most closely watched legal battles of the year.

Transcript

[TJ Holmes]

This is an Iheart podcast.

[Amy Robach]

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[TJ Holmes]

Hey there, folks. It is Tuesday, July 1, and the jury has reached verdicts in the Diddy trial. But we don't know what the verdicts are yet, and we might not know for several days why. More jury drama, folks. Welcome to this episode, this second Diddy update episode of Amy and TJ for the day. Robes, what was your reaction? I had to give you the updates in real time via text because you happen to be out at the time. But what were. What was your reaction to hearing what we know now?

[Robes]

Oh, my heart was pounding. I was running around New York City in the rain and trying to get some errands done. But like, hearing from you that there were verdicts in the bam, my heart stopped. And so I tried to start looking at my phone, reading the reporters who were in the room trying to read the tea leaves, because we first just started getting anecdotal observations about how did he was reacting and how his defense team was reacting. And I was trying to figure out what that meant. It was confusing, exciting, and I don't know. It just. So much is on the line. And we've all been following this. Everyone who's been listening with us, but those of us who are covering it, it just, it's. It's overwhelming.

[TJ Holmes]

All right, so folks, we'll let you know where we are right now. As of this recording, early Evening here on July 1, the jury has gone home. They've gone home for the day. But they sent a note to the judge at about 4:15 this afternoon, that note telling him that they had reached verdicts on four of the five counts against Sean Diddy Combs, the one count Robes they're hung up on. We should not be surprised. And we are not legal experts, but I guess we kind of saw this coming.

[Robes]

Yes, they are stuck on the racketeering conspiracy charge. That, of course, is the one that was the most confusing and complex and the one that would send Diddy to prison for the rest of his life. And so that is the one that they were asking questions about. We kind of figured that out. But what we hadn't realized is it sound, sounds like perhaps they had already pretty quickly made decisions on count two, three, four and five.

[TJ Holmes]

Hey, that's tough to. That's. That is. What is that? I mean, any legal expert will tell you something and what that means. But they started sending notes and giving an indication that they were debating about the racketeering charge really, really early in the process. So to think that counts. 2, 3, 3, 4, 5. They were unanimous on in a matter of. It had to be an hour or so.

[Robes]

I know and look, I am no legal expert, but a lot of folks will believe if you get a verdict back quickly or a decision is made quickly, oftentimes it is guilty. That is just typically what you see. It's not always the case. But to add to that, the defense team, who knows what they're telling Diddy, what they're doing telling their client. But from the folks who were in the room, they said his face looked despondent and there were a lot of hugs. There was a lot of pats on the backs. The mood seemed serious, I believe is how they described it.

[TJ Holmes]

I think you saw as well. We read again, folks, we read all of the commentary from the reporters who are in the room. So they're feverishly typing their observations. And then we take it in. Now we from Sky News, BBC, the independent, cnn, NBC, abc, NBC. We look at all of these things. Robes. I saw a few initially talking about hugs and almost smiles and even laughter on Diddy's side. I saw some follow ups that saw that said after the note came that there were hugs, very serious looks on their faces and to your point, despondent. So some of the scenes they're describing were different. But I think what you just said was more consistent in what everybody was observing, like something's up, something serious. Why are they hugging?

[Robes]

Yes, and because they don't know. Obviously no one knows what the verdict is, if it's not guilty or guilty. But most attorneys know in these types of situations just they're, they're reading between the lines. In terms of the notes that the jurors have been sending over the last day and a half and the fact that they are stuck on the most serious charge, but seemingly came pretty quickly to their decision on count two, which is sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion, that was about Cassie Ventura, they had a unanimous decision on count three, that's transportation to engage in prostitution. That also pertains to Cassie Ventura and the sex workers that we've heard about. They're unanimous on the count four charge, which is also sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion. This is in reference to Jane. And then unanimous on their decision for count five, which is transportation to engage in prostitution. That is involving Jane and the sex workers that also were a part of that, that testified as well. So, you know, look, it.

[TJ Holmes]

It's settled right now. They have settled and they have made a decision about the fate of Sean Diddy Combs on four of five counts. The most serious one is left. Sure. But the fact that he is potentially looking. And again, robes on two of those counts talking about sex trafficking. Those carry a minimum of 15 years each, correct? A minimum. Yes, a minimum of 15 years. He has. The other two, the prostitution counts have a maximum of 10 years. But he is looking at some serious, serious prison time if in fact these are guilty. I think I was going back and forth before we started recording with you. Like, how do you possibly look at this? How could you lean not guilty. Guilty. How could you look at this and lean and possibly think, well, they did it that quickly. How could you lean not guilty?

[Robes]

See, I just feel like if they're stuck on the racketeering, which is the most serious of the crimes and involved some of these counts in that you just had to have a co conspirator involved as well.

[TJ Holmes]

You're right.

[Robes]

So it just seems to me that the count two through five are guilty.

[TJ Holmes]

Okay.

[Robes]

We just, it just seems like that has to be what it is.

[TJ Holmes]

I don't know what happened. Looking at your face right then and you just. For whatever reason, it clicked. It clicked. If you. Again, I don't think I said this point clear enough at the top. The jury note that they sent said that we've reached verdicts on four or five counts. We, on one, we have people who are unpersuadable, who are unmovable on both sides. So that means there's somebody on that jury who, who, who is so sure that he's guilty of racketeering that they refuse to move. Yeah, that person is probably voted.

[Robes]

That person has not voted not guilty on counts two through five.

[TJ Holmes]

That is a hunt. That's a done deal.

[Robes]

So that's why. Okay, that's, that's why the despondent looks. And I think that's why the hugging, because I think they know at the very least Diddy is going to prison, is going to stay in prison for quite some time with these verdicts Now I can understand the racketeering conspiracy. So someone might think he was guilty of counts two through five, but did it really rise to the level of racketeering? Did he actually have an empire? Did he actually have an enterprise? Did he actually have a co. Conspirator? And so I can see why someone said could say who thought he was guilty on counts two through five still say, you know what? I don't think he's guilty of racketeering. Also, that's putting him away for the rest of his life. And that might feel a little bit more ominous.

[TJ Holmes]

But their note suggests somebody is sure unpersuadable and unmovable on the racketeering charge of him being guilty. You. I'm glad we talked this out because I was trying to find a way, like, how is it. Is it any way that the person. Nope, there's no way.

[Robes]

I don't think there's any way that.

[TJ Holmes]

Sure. He was found guilty of racketeering. There's no way now he's not guilty of something else.

[Robes]

Here's the deal. Here's. Here's a question. He could be. He could be not guilty on the sex trafficking charges. And they could have unanimously decided that. And then they could have unanimously decided that he's guilty of the transportation to engaged in prostitution. So he might. They might have. Unanimously. It might be split.

[TJ Holmes]

You make another good point.

[Robes]

So maybe he is only facing 10 years each. I mean, there's a myriad of possibilities. They're not necessarily all guilty or all not guilty. It could be a mix.

[TJ Holmes]

You know what? I am again, I'm not being curd with this or because of the. The seriousness of what we're talking about here, but if I were a betting man, I would take that scenario you just laid out.

[Robes]

Yeah.

[TJ Holmes]

Meaning there's a. There's some difficulty with. With the sex trafficking. People have a difficulty understanding why. Like, wait a minute. They. She could have left anytime she wanted kind of a thing. And even if you're not okay with the sex trafficking, maybe it's easier to say, okay, he paid for these guys who came and had sex.

[Robes]

When we heard the prosecution give their closing arguments and throughout the testimony, we kind of really fel. That was a slam dunk. While we were listening to the evidence as it was happening, we said. Kind of feels like they totally proved that by the law. That it seems. Yes. Right. So that wouldn't be shocking. Now here's another scenario, babe. They could have believed Cassie Ventura and not believed Jane. There could be.

[TJ Holmes]

It could split on that as Well.

[Robes]

A myriad of guilty and not guilty, but there are definitely, there are definitely some guilties in there.

[TJ Holmes]

There got to be some guilties in there. So which ones are they? Yeah, it's wild. So after all of that scene, they had to figure out, okay, the jury sent a note, they have a question about what to do next. So then the lawyers came back into the courtroom. This is the part that's been fascinating and this took hours today. They had to argue fight over what's the right language to give back to the jury.

[Robes]

Right. And both the, this was interesting. Both the defense and the prosecution wanted the jury to go back and to continue to deliberate. And the defense wanted to use even stronger language like go back. And then the prosecution wanted to give an Allen charge, which rises to a whole other level.

[TJ Holmes]

Yeah. And so it's very controversial. Some people think it shouldn't be used at all. The Allen charge is essentially a stronger and amended jury instruction, essentially telling them in more forceful terms, you have an obligation to go back there and get us a verdict. And almost encourages them to re examine their own opinion and not be afraid to change their minds. And some people think that's almost like some psychological influence you're having on the jury.

[Robes]

Like, are you sure you're right? Are you sure that's this decision you want?

[TJ Holmes]

Essentially asking them to question the decision they've already made and why it's in the interest of the court and the system to get a verdict instead of doing what you believe in your heart. That's what the argument sometimes is. But they didn't go that far.

[Robes]

No. And the judge did make a point to the juror saying, you know, if you strongly believe something, no one is asking you to go against what you believe is right and true. And that was certainly an important part of the instructions to the jury. But yeah, the judge could have just sent them back. He could have given them an Allen charge. He could have allowed for a partial verdict. Some folks were thinking that maybe we might hear what the verdicts were on counts two through five. But the judge didn't ask the jury to do any of that.

[TJ Holmes]

I mean, I don't know what you. We, we get those verdicts. They do not want a hung jury. Neither side wants a hung jury on account because that means we have to go retrial over again. And at that point, he's going to be, I mean, at this point it seems like he's guilty on some count. You're going to go through and do all of this over again. Nobody wants that so, yeah, to your point, both sides wanted them to go back in and keep talking the options. You just laid out what they could do. But the judge eventually did decide what he wanted to do, and he brought the jury late in the day back into the courtroom. And we're gonna tell you exactly what he told them to do.

[Amy Robach]

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[Robes]

So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

[TJ Holmes]

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.

[Robes]

Left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's teddy Escapes, Blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president?

[TJ Holmes]

Kappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.

[Robes]

And he's not the only Kennedy to.

[TJ Holmes]

Survive a scandal the Kennedys have lived through. Disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

[Robes]

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[TJ Holmes]

All right, we have verdicts in the Diddy trial. We have verdicts on four of five counts. We don't know what the four verdicts are yet because the jury sent the judge to the jury back in to continue deliberating. But ropes, he had options for what he could tell them to do. He could tell them to keep deliberating, give this new instructions, kind of a harsher instruction about what to do. Or he could allow a partial verdict, but he kind of split the baby. Kind of made everybody happy and gave them some instruction.

[Robes]

Yeah, that's correct. So after the prosecution weighed in, the defense weighed in, the judge decided to tell the jury this. When he brought them back into the courtroom just a short while ago, he said this I received your note that you have reached verdicts on count two through five, but not on count one. I ask at this time that you keep deliberating. And so that is what he told the jury. The jury went back out of the room and shortly thereafter they sent a note back to the judge saying, hey, we're done for the day. And so it was determined that they will come back tomorrow morning at 9am to keep deliberating on count one. And who knows how long that will go? Who knows how long the judge will ask them to keep deliberating until they come back with a. Either a unanimous decision or once again, if they already have people who say, I will not budge, I will not move.

[TJ Holmes]

I don't know what the cutoff. At some point he has to use discretion, but at some point you have to. If they say absolutely not and keep saying absolutely not, and I've seen a judge keep throwing it back and back and back at juries and eventually they just have to convince him that this isn't going to happen. I don't know if the judge has in his mind a deadline, a timeline on it. They might come back tomorrow and have more legal questions, be asking for more things and maybe negotiations start anew to a certain degree, I do not know. But if I were a betting man, once again, I would bet tomorrow is it that tomorrow on Wednesday we would get a verdict or at least a decision and hear what's going on, you.

[Robes]

Know, and there's been so much discussion about what the mood has been like outside the courthouse. Inside the courtroom, it's been described as tense and certainly building. I can't even imagine tomorrow morning what that scene is going to be like. As folks are expecting, hey, the verdict is almost certainly coming down tomorrow. And did he, you know, his mother was in court with him today. One of his daughters, his children have all been there throughout this trial. And just to now have to sit and wait and know that the verdicts are in for counts two through five and you're waiting to hear about what they think on that most serious charge.

[TJ Holmes]

That's tough. Your fate has been decided on four or five counts and you have to sit and still wait to hear that. You're not waiting on a decision to be made. You're waiting for them to tell you your decision. That just. That just hits a little different. But wow, it just. We shouldn't be surprised. More drama with this jury from the start. Day one, day two.

[Robes]

Yeah, they've kept it interesting. It hasn't ever actually gotten to the point where I was bored. It seems like every time I had a moment to do something else, another note came in and another question or another note came back from the jurors. But I thought it was interesting, the prosecutors, when they first learned of this split, that they haven't decided or they can't come to an agreement on count one, they initially wanted the judge to tell the jurors this is one of their suggestions, that the case could be retried if they don't reach a verdict. I wonder what that was about. Would they have preferred a hung jury on the racketeering charge so that they could retry him rather than try and get them to come to a unanimous decision, fearful that perhaps that unanimous decision would ultimately be not guilty?

[TJ Holmes]

Gave him an off ramp. Gave him an off ramp. Oh, that would have, I should say, given him an off ramp. Like this is heavy. This is very difficult and emotional. And we've all had some kind of emotional reaction to it. But they're the ones in charge of this man's fate. And so, yeah, to give them somewhat of an off ramp, I can see why they might have wanted to put it in there and take the pressure off of them to make a decision, because the decision, maybe the prosecutor thinks they do not want to make is that one to have to put him in prison for the rest of his life.

[Robes]

Wow. Yes, because just the pressure on the jury members who don't want to change their mind. But peer pressure is certainly powerful. And isn't that part of how a jury works?

[TJ Holmes]

I want to go back and watch the People vs. O.J. simpson. For some reason, you remember all that. It's been a while, but it gave us so much insight into that particular jury as well. It's just. I can't imagine what's going on. We will hear the stories later, but.

[Robes]

And, well, I was going to say there is some interest because. Okay, we think there's going to be in terms of what may happen if the jury somehow doesn't reach a verdict tomorrow and say they continue to deliberate. They actually had to discuss the judges and the attorneys whether or not court could even convene on Thursday, July 3, because typically the court is closed because of the Fourth of July holiday. So the judge did say that they could keep the court open if it's necessary for the jurors to continue to deliberate on Thursday, July 3. But it doesn't seem like that's in anyone's interest. And they're close. You're like, that's never happening.

[TJ Holmes]

I mean, some of these guys are telling the family what charcoal to buy. I mean, they're. They're cooking out. They're. They're getting ready for the Fourth of July. This is. I can't imagine.

[Robes]

Yes, Well, I think so. The defense lawyer, Mark. Okay, you think? I know his name. Agnifullo, actually said he didn't want the judge to ask jurors what they want to do until the end of the day tomorrow because he doesn't want them to feel rushed into a decision. You can understand that. And they're saying, hey, we'll wait till Monday if we have to. Just let them take their time. They didn't want anyone to feel pressured or rushed to. To make a decision to just get out of there by end of the day tomorrow.

[TJ Holmes]

Well, I only got one thing to talk about now. It's a big thing to talk about. Racketeering. But they are down to only one decision to make. Folks, we appreciate you continuing to listen to us. It has been a ride, but we are. It's coming around the corner in the next couple days or might go into next week, but either way, we appreciate you being along with us, but for now, I'm TJ Holmes, along with my board of Amy Robach. We'll talk to you all soon.

[Amy Robach]

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[Robes]

This is an iHeart podcast.