The First 5 Minutes of ”Sean Combs: The Reckoning” Will Have You Hooked

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Episode: The First 5 Minutes of “Sean Combs: The Reckoning” Will Have You Hooked
Date: December 2, 2025
Host: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

In this episode, Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes dive deep into the first episode of the much-anticipated Netflix documentary “Sean Combs: The Reckoning,” produced by 50 Cent. The hosts discuss the instant buzz—including legal controversies and media frenzy—surrounding the documentary, especially focusing on the explosive opening five minutes that feature previously unseen footage of Sean “Diddy” Combs just days before his arrest. Their conversation explores the documentary’s content, legal and ethical dilemmas, and the broader cultural implications of Diddy’s story.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Reaction to the Documentary’s Release

• Netflix’s Decision & Legal Pushback (03:22)
  • T.J. notes the release on December 2 despite a cease-and-desist attempt from Diddy’s team:

    “I say it might be gone because Diddy wants it gone... They want this thing [down], but Netflix ripped up that cease and desist.” (03:22–03:51)

  • Amy confirms Netflix ignored legal efforts:

    “They didn’t seem to be bothered at all by it because as promised at Midnight, Tuesday morning 12:01, it was available for all to see.” (03:51–04:07)

2. The Opening Footage: Gripping and Unprecedented

• Leaked Personal Footage (04:37–06:53)
  • Amy highlights how the doc hits hard from the jump, showing Diddy days before his arrest, visibly panicked and in legal strategy talks:

    “You are hearing and watching Sean Combs six days before he's arrested. You can see that he seems panicked, emotionally fraught…” (04:38–05:04)

  • T.J. stresses the authenticity and urgency captured in those scenes, including Diddy’s conversation with his high-profile attorney Mark Agnifilo.

3. Media Tactics, Motives, and Public Opinion

• Smear Campaign Accusations & 50 Cent’s Role (05:53–08:21)
  • Amy and T.J. discuss claims from Diddy’s camp that the doc is a “smear campaign” driven by 50 Cent’s longstanding rivalry with Diddy.
  • T.J. defends the doc’s approach:

    “Episode one didn’t feel like a hit piece at all. It felt like I was getting a deeper, better understanding of what led to what we all saw in court.” (06:20–06:53)

  • The hosts discuss the significant influence of social media and Diddy’s awareness of shaping public perception, quoting Diddy:

    “It’s 9 billion people on earth. 7 billion are on Instagram. They’re not just watching CNN.” (08:21–08:52)

4. Ownership and Legality of the Footage

• Stolen or Sold? Who Owns the Rights? (11:53–15:45)
  • T.J. wonders aloud how Netflix got access to such private footage, speculating on legal rights between Diddy and his videographer:

    “How in the hell does Netflix get the rights to that video? Who owns it?” (11:53–12:16)

  • Amy debates whether the videographer simply sold it, or if there were contractual loopholes after Diddy’s arrest.
  • Amy reads Diddy’s official statement condemning Netflix’s use of “stolen footage” and conversations with his lawyer, which are supposed to be protected.

5. Legal and Ethical Considerations

• Attorney-Client Privilege & Public Domain (14:29–15:45)
  • Amy and T.J. express shock over the doc including Diddy’s legal consultations, pondering legal consequences:

    “...when you have a conversation with your lawyer that is protected. So that is interesting how they felt comfortable legally exposing a conversation that clearly is protected under law.” (14:29–15:02)

  • T.J.:

    “How is it possible you could ever be in possession of somebody private conversation with their lawyer and you have the right to broadcast it…?” (15:02–15:14)

6. Documentary’s Approach & 50 Cent’s Involvement

• Narrative, Exclusivity, and Personal Stakes (16:21–17:55)
  • The hosts read from Diddy’s further statement criticizing Netflix for giving creative control to his adversary, 50 Cent.
  • T.J. highlights how 50 Cent’s trolling and rivalry amplify public interest.
  • Amy points out 50 Cent’s boastful social media promotion and lack of acknowledgment of Diddy’s protest.

7. The Power of the Documentary’s Storytelling

• First 5 Minutes: Emotional Impact (09:10–11:34)
  • T.J. shares the emotional shift seen in Diddy from control to desperation:

    “There’s a moment… he actually seemed weary and worn and not ready for another fight. So that the first two minutes are absolutely fascinating...” (10:35–11:00)

  • Amy describes the surreal, candid tone as Diddy’s personal crisis unfolds with fans unknowingly snapping last pre-arrest selfies.

8. Diddy’s Life, Upbringing, and Media Framing

• Context and Empathy (18:10–20:09)
  • T.J. recalls how for fans of hip-hop, Diddy has been a prominent figure since childhood, recognizing the sadness in his life story and its impact:

    “If you don’t know him, you’ll watch this and go, Jesus Christ, he’s talented.” (18:10–19:19)

  • Amy points out the documentary’s backstory of Diddy’s mother’s influence and the “paper gangster” concept.

9. Paper Gangster, Hip-Hop Feuds, and Family Roots

• Cultural Context and Hip-Hop History (25:24–27:56)
  • T.J. spells out the East Coast–West Coast hip-hop feud, detailing the allegations around Diddy’s role in Tupac’s death and tension with 50 Cent.
  • Amy is surprised by the documentary linking Diddy’s party culture to his upbringing and even his mother’s influence:

    “To think that perhaps the inspiration for them came in part from his own mother...that was jaw-dropping.” (27:31–27:35)

10. The Director’s Perspective and Legal Confidence

• Statement from Director Alexandria Stapleton (28:41–30:47)
  • T.J. reads the director’s comment:

    “It came to us where we obtained the footage legally and have the necessary rights.” (29:11)

  • Both hosts note Stapleton’s refusal to go into detail, possibly to avoid further legal complications.
  • The director claims they “moved heaven and earth to keep the filmmaker’s identity confidential,” suggesting either a secret sale or a sensitive leak. (29:25–29:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Media & PR Battles:

  Diddy (paraphrased by T.J.): “You’re in the wrong place. It’s 9 billion people on earth. 7 billion are on Instagram. They’re not just watching CNN. You’re looking at the wrong audience and being concerned about us winning or losing a PR battle.” (08:21–08:52)

• On the Impact of the Doc’s Opening:

  T.J.: “That video at the beginning, and it goes a full two minutes... You’re hooked. You’re in... crawling through the streets of New York City. It is incredible to see.” (09:10–09:36)

• On the Legality of Using Sensitive Footage:

  Amy: “But I did believe that regardless of who you are, no matter how big of a name you are, you... have a protection under the law to have private conversations with certain people, priests, therapists... and your lawyer.” (15:14–15:45)

• On Diddy’s Legacy and Tragic Arc:

  T.J.: “It just is. And it seems weird to praise him after he’s been prison for what we've seen him do, even, but I guess that’s it. It makes the story even sadder. Like, Jesus Christ. It was a sad childhood. It was a sad upbringing.” (19:47–20:09)

• On the Documentary’s Transparency:

  Alexandria Stapleton (director, statement): “We obtained the footage legally and have the necessary rights... We moved heaven and earth to keep the filmmaker’s identity confidential.” (29:11–29:25)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:22–03:51: Discussion on Diddy’s legal efforts to block the documentary & Netflix’s response
• 04:38–05:04: First reactions to the explosive private footage at the doc’s start
• 08:21–08:52: Diddy’s take on winning public opinion via social media, not traditional news
• 09:10–11:34: Emotional and immersive experience watching Diddy just before his arrest
• 11:53–15:45: Exploration of legal rights regarding the controversial footage, attorney-client privilege concerns
• 16:21–17:55: Diddy’s official statement, 50 Cent’s involvement, and media motivations
• 18:10–20:09: Reflections on Diddy’s legacy and tragic backstory
• 25:24–27:56: Hip-hop history, “paper gangster” debate, and Diddy’s family roots
• 28:41–30:47: Director’s legal statement and efforts to obscure the videographer’s identity

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Tone and Flow

The episode maintains a casual, energetic, and conversational tone, with plenty of banter and personal reflections. Amy often frames things from the perspective of a newcomer to hip-hop, while T.J. brings the context of a longtime fan familiar with Diddy’s public persona.

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Final Thoughts

Amy and T.J. leave listeners with unresolved questions about legalities, ethics, and the personal stakes behind the release of “Sean Combs: The Reckoning.” They express continued fascination with the story and an eagerness to view the remaining episodes, speculating about both the documentary’s impact and its potential fate on Netflix. The episode offers both an overview and a deep dive into the controversy, making it accessible and compelling for listeners regardless of their prior knowledge of the Diddy saga.

Transcript

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[T.J. Holmes]

Hey there, folks. It is Tuesday, December 2nd, the day that finally the much talked about 50 Cent produced did documentary hit Netflix. Hurry up and watch it because it might be gone at any moment. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and tj. I say it might be gone because Diddy wants it gone. They have. They want this thing. They've been talking about it, but they sent a cease and desist to Netflix and said don't put this up. Netflix ripped up that cease and desist?

[Amy Robach]

Apparently, yes. They didn't seem to be bothered at all by it because as promised at Midnight Tuesday morning 1201, it was available for all to see. Four parts, they're 60 minutes each and we've gotten through the first one.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah. And I don't know what to say. I don't know how serious. Like I'm not of a legal mind or anything like that. I don't imagine if they didn't take it down, they can't be that fearful of it or it's worth the risk because everybody's talking about this sucker today. Everybody's been talking about it for quite some time. And I guess the centerpiece or the point of them wanting to take it down is that you all are using footage that you all don't have the right to use that you actually even stole. And robes. It is the most fascinating part of at least the first episode that we've seen.

[Amy Robach]

That's right. The entire series starts out with that footage. And so it starts out with a bang because you are hearing and watching Sean Combs six days before he's arrested. You can see that he seems panicked, that he is very emotionally fraught and he is speaking urgently and even maybe fiercely with his attorneys.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, the attorney in particular, his superstar attorney, Mark Agnafilo, that put on a show, by all accounts, and get this man from Possible life in prison to I guess the three years or four. Was it 50 months that he's ultimately going to do. But this, the documentary, look, it got so much attention. There have been a lot of, quite frankly, hell, TMZ has done a documentary. Everybody's done a documentary on Diddy. It seems there are others you can find on streaming services. But Rose, it was because of $0.50 involvement. And he has been trolling Diddy since the first bottle of baby oil got found before he was arrested. He's been sending out social media, whatnot. These two have been adversaries kind of publicly in the rap game for a long time. But his involvement had people's attention really in tune.

[Amy Robach]

Correct. Because they question and certainly we've now heard from Sean Combs and his lawyers question the motive and not even question it, but directly accuse the motive here for this documentary that it is a smear campaign, a hit piece on Diddy. And that was the agenda from start to finish, according to Diddy's camp.

[T.J. Holmes]

A side note here. We'll get back into this, but did you feel that initially.

[Amy Robach]

No.

[T.J. Holmes]

Episode one felt like a hit piece of some.

[Amy Robach]

It did not.

[T.J. Holmes]

Didn't to me either.

[Amy Robach]

It did not feel like a hit piece at all. In fact, look, you have followed Sean Combs career from the beginning. I have not. And so I was learning things that you already were very familiar with. I actually was fascinated by it and felt like I was getting a deeper, better understanding of what led to what we all saw in court. The spectacle that it was this past summer. I felt already just with the first episode that I have a better understanding of him.

[T.J. Holmes]

And I guess what they are saying, they have some new or never before heard or seen interviews, people sharing. But a lot of it so far is a rehash of a lot of what we do know about his life and hearing from some people we're familiar with. But there are some new interviews. But this is the Reckoning, they call it. Sean Combs the Reckoning came out Today, produced by 50 Cent, directed by. This woman's got some great credentials, Alexandria Stapleton. She is a documentary filmmaker who has done some significant work over the years. This is a four part series, 60 minutes each. So it's very digestible. But that's why it's a big deal. Because of 50, because of who else is in it. Robes, the Diddy statement. Look, I think it's been a part from the very beginning of the trial. Didn't he. Or I think got in trouble during the trial because he found out his kids. He was directing his kids to do something on social media.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. For his birthday. Look. And you see this a little bit in this footage that they have where he is very aware, and this is brilliant on his part because he gets it. If you lose your PR campaign, if you lose the battle for public opinion, you lose. And so he was very aware of this. So he was, according to people who were accusing him of staging, having his kids do things for him on behalf of him to make him look good or better in the public's eye on social media.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah. And that makes sense.

[Amy Robach]

It does make sense.

[T.J. Holmes]

I screamed out to you in the next room or something. I said, he's smart. Because he said something in the beginning, in the back and forth with his lawyer about his lawyer seemed relieved almost to, hey, it's September. You haven't been indicted. Right. And I'm watching all these news outlets and da, da, da and everything. Nobody seems to be talking about it. Diddy said, you're in the wrong place. It's 9 billion people on earth. 7 billion are on Instagram. They're not just watching CNN. You're looking at the wrong audience and being concerned about us winning or losing a PR battle. I heard that. I'm like, damn. Yeah, it's a good point.

[Amy Robach]

And he was right. And he's flat out told Mark Agnafillo we're losing. And he was angry and he wanted them. He said, look, I'm paying you all. You figure it out. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you what to do. You all communicate better with one another. You get a better strategy, and then you tell me what we're gonna do.

[T.J. Holmes]

So this. That video at the beginning, and it goes a full two minutes, and I'm not sure how much is going to be throughout the rest of the series, but that two minutes, you're hooked. You're in. We are talking about, folks, that hotel where he was arrested. This video shows him in that hotel days before that arrest, on the phone, making plans on a bike, crawling through the streets of New York City. It is incredible to see.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[T.J. Holmes]

What was happening.

[Amy Robach]

And look, I didn't realize this about him. And this is a part of their issue because they said, hey, Sean Combs has been basically chronicling his life, videoing his life since he was 19. He's always had a plan to have his own documentary about his own life. And so there were always cameras following him. So that was what was so interesting to me at a. One of his darkest moments, his most frightening moments, the days leading up to his arrest where he didn't know what was gonna happen. He had the wherewithal, the forethought to have someone documenting everything. The good, the bad, the ugly. I was taken by the fact that the videographer, whoever was behind that camera, swung around, and from his hotel room window, you could see police officers on rooftops, seemingly monitoring combs to make sure they knew where he was coming and going. I did not realize that he had that level of surveillance going on that first two minutes.

[T.J. Holmes]

I'm blown away. There's a moment where he's standing outside where you actually. It was the first time you see maybe some real concern and pain from him as he's talking about just a desperation. Desperation like, this is bullshit is what he said. I gotta deal with this shit. And he actually seemed weary and worn and not ready for another fight. So that the first two minutes are absolutely fascinating with what's going on.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And so we get to actually. It's almost as if you're there. You wondered what it was like for him. You actually are along with him. You feel like you're along the ride with him in those moments leading up to his arrest, and you feel his deep concern, his. I felt like he was almost panicked. Look, he's a cool cucumber. You can see that. But there was this bubbling panic that was there that you could see and feel and witness as you saw him go about his day. And yet still stopping to take selfies with folks who were all trying to get their picture with him. And he was actually very accommodating.

[T.J. Holmes]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, you're still friendly, smiling and everything. I just wonder where those pictures ended up. You know, those guys had no idea.

[Amy Robach]

I thought about that. They couldn't imagine. They couldn't have known at the time that they were getting one of the last selfies ever of Diddy before he was ultimately arrested and. And put away for years and years and years.

[T.J. Holmes]

Last possible selfies for years that are possible with Diddy. They got them and had no idea they did. His rep put out a statement today talking about that particular footage. So that's the question. Robes. This is his personal videographer in that hotel room with him. How in the hell does Netflix get the rights to that video? Who owns it?

[Amy Robach]

Well, that's the question. The logical thing, I mean, the place I jumped to was that the videographer ended up saying, this is mine. This is my footage. I took it. I creatively recorded it. So it's my footage to then sell or Give to whomever I want. But I don't know what the legality behind all that is. Obviously, Netflix's lawyers and 50 cents lawyers obviously felt like they had the right to purchase or secure the rights to that video or is worth the risk. Or it was worth the risk, but would it be worth the risk?

[T.J. Holmes]

I don't know. How much can you get sued for? What is the risk versus reward with this thing that everybody is talking about right now and watching? How many streams are worth it? How many new subscriptions are worth it? I do not know. But maybe they made some kind of balance. I any photographer, anybody who's had experience with this, you hire a photographer, yes, they're taking your pictures, but the pictures are still theirs. They own the rights to them. Unless you buy those rights. I can't imagine that Diddy having this person in his hotel room has not already arranged a deal that all of that stuff is his.

[Amy Robach]

Maybe he hadn't paid him yet. Maybe he had plans to do it and then he got arrested and it fell through the cracks and he didn't think to compensate videographer and someone else did.

[T.J. Holmes]

So it's fascinating. We're going back and forth. You give a scenario now I'm giving one now I'm thinking of another one. And you'll think like, oh, maybe this, maybe this. You're right. I have no idea how this could have gone down. But they sent out a message to everybody letting them know that they didn't agree with what Netflix was doing. They called it a shameful hit piece. They said this stolen footage was never authorized for release. We go on here. I'll move down here. They said Netflix. Here it is. Guess this is what I was referencing. Robes. Netflix is plainly desperate to sensationalize every minute of Mr. Combs life without regard for truth in order to capitalize on a never ending media frenzy. I mean, there's probably some truth to that statement. Yes, there's probably a lot of truth. Yes. It does seem like a never ending media frenzy.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And they went on to say, if Netflix cared about truth or about Mr. Combs legal rights, it would not be ripping from private footage out of context, including conversations with his lawyers that were never intended for public viewing. No rights in that material were ever transferred to Netflix or any third party. And that is interesting because when you have a conversation with your lawyer that is protected. So that is interesting how they felt comfortable legally exposing a conversation that clearly is protected under the law.

[T.J. Holmes]

We're talking to a lawyer later today about a different case. I Got I want to ask that question. I think how is it possible you could ever be in possession of somebody private conversation with their lawyer and you have the right to broadcast it because.

[Amy Robach]

You'Re in the public domain? Because there is public domain. I'm just a lawyer. No, I know. I'm trying to think in my head like, is it because of, you know, I know that public figures, obviously we've learned this the hard way, have very different legal standards they have to meet versus private citizens when it comes to privacy. But I did believe that regardless of who you are, no matter how big of a name you are, you, you have a protection under the law to have private conversations with certain people, priests, therapists, maybe your doctor and your lawyer.

[T.J. Holmes]

And you hear Agnew's voice. It's not just a one sided. You hear a full conversation. I am fascinated by this legal back. This one part of this film. Like they mentioned this as well and Diddy's statement. And this is important they acknowledge. It is equally staggering that Netflix handed creative control to Curtis 50 Cent Jackson, a longtime adversary with a personal vendetta who has spent too much time slandering Mr. Combs. I don't know how much control he was given, but it seems like he was. But it is a. Has a choice.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, yes. And he said beyond the legal issues, this is a personal breach of trust. Mr. Combs has long respected Ted Sarandos. That is the head of Netflix. Correct. And admired the legacy of Clarence Avant. I don't know how to say that last name. I just want to make sure I didn't say it wrong. But for Netflix to give his life story to someone who has publicly attacked him for decades feels like an unnecessary and deeply personal affront. At minimum, he expected fairness from the people he respected.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah. Why it seemed. And someone pointed out another article why he seemed to want to go out of his way to like call out or speak to or say something about the Netflix CEO. Like why it was important to.

[Amy Robach]

Maybe they had had a previous relationship. But you know, to his point about, about Curtis Jackson, about 50 Cent, I thought it was interesting someone put up on their coverage of this back and forth that. Just take a look at what Jackson put on his Instagram to promote this piece. He said Netflix is concerned their server may not be able to handle everyone watching at once. At 12:00am Eastern time it goes live and then put a movie. Check me out. He wrote with, you know, a little emoji for a. Like a film, whatever, when you mark a film. But he's Excited. He's promoting it. I mean, it's. This is his baby he's been working on. But no acknowledgement at all of the reaction from Diddy's side.

[T.J. Holmes]

Look, they got everybody talking right now, and isn't that half the battle? You got people talking about it without even having to lift a finger.

[Amy Robach]

Were you impressed with. I know that there have been other documentaries, but the amount of people and the people so close to Diddy who agreed to be a part of this.

[T.J. Holmes]

You know what? I don't know. I've seen a lot of documentaries. I've seen a lot about him over the years to where there's very little I hear that's new or shocking. And so it just. Episode one. I mean, you have victim. We've heard victim stories for years, and some of the victims in here, we have heard their names come up before. So I. There's nothing new, but it's just fascinating. That first two minutes. I told you, I said, we can't have this on in the background while we're doing other work because we're going to be focused so much on this documentary. And so. No, but for folks, you made the point. I have. This guy has been in my life since I was in junior high school. Someone that I absolutely admired, looked up to, was impressed by, and absolutely was completely honored the first time I got to meet him. I can't tell you how much this dude has been a part of my. Those years from junior high on everything. And so to see this, you see a hero, you see a really impressive kid bringing him up from nothing story to where you. If you don't know him, you'll watch this and go, jesus Christ, he's talented.

[Amy Robach]

That's what I'm. I mean, I'm watching him. He was a hustler. But then to hear the backstory and I should say the allegations about how he was raised by his mother, what his father was like and who his father was and how he came up and how he was kind of nerdy and goofy and became what he was. And it was all through his own. He went from being the intern to being so powerful and so talented that he was fired because they were concerned about him taking over the whole damn place.

[T.J. Holmes]

That's impressive.

[Amy Robach]

That's impressive, right?

[T.J. Holmes]

It just is. And it seems weird to praise him after he's been prison for what we've seen him do, even, but I guess that's it. It makes the story even sadder. Like, Jesus Christ. It was a sad childhood. It was a sad upbringing.

[Amy Robach]

That contributed to a warped sense of what's right.

[T.J. Holmes]

But he was talented enough to make to change music. Oh, my goodness. Well, folks, stay with us here because we talk about this footage, the stolen footage, so much. Well, how exactly does Netflix explain how they're able to use the footage? We hear the statement from the director of this new Diddy documentary, Stay here.

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Ella McKay. Coming to theaters December 12th.

[Amy Robach]

Your father's here.

[T.J. Holmes]

Why?

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A heartwarming new comedy from James L. Brooks.

[Kal Penn]

I'm a different person. I have never in my life felt this way about any other woman.

[Amy Robach]

Jesus, I wasn't counting your mother.

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It's a perfect holiday comedy about an imperfect family.

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You can use a scream.

[T.J. Holmes]

Ella.

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Starring Emma Mackey, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kamel Nanjiani, I.A.

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Debery.

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With Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson.

[Amy Robach]

You should do that every afternoon.

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Ella McKay, radio PG 13. Get tickets now.

[Ed Helms]

Hey, everyone, Ed Helms here.

[Kal Penn]

And hi, I'm Kal Penn, and we're the hosts of Earsay, the Audible, and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Amy Robach]

You know what?

[T.J. Holmes]

I can see you as Mr. Darcy.

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Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett. Here, listen to earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and then the after. After.

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To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com that's faceafterweightloss.com you guys.

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[T.J. Holmes]

We pick back up here about the I guess it's the documentary that everybody's talking about. We're talking about it now. The Reckoning. Sean Combs, the Reckoning is what it's officially called on Netflix. 50 Cent produced it, just dropped today. Everybody's talking and cease and desist from Diddy's team wanting them to not air this thing. They went ahead and did it anyway, in particular because of some, what they say is stolen footage, but it's pretty intimate footage. It is footage that is in the hotel room with Diddy before he's arrested in days, talking to his lawyers.

[Amy Robach]

And they have it, which seems like a protected conversation. I don't know. You know what was interesting to me, I was learning a lot of things about him that I did not know. And I think a lot of people are in my camp. They, they know his music, they know his reputation and certainly they followed the trial. But to go all the way back and look, there's a lot more to learn because I still want to watch all three. We've only seen the first one, but this notion of him being a paper gangster, had you heard that before?

[T.J. Holmes]

Well, it's a guy who some, some people got cred and some people got clout and some people have respect based on things they gathered from reputation being, quite frankly, on the street. He amassed his power in a boardroom, in an office. And the guy was trying to make that connection, but he had this. He ends up. He's got street connections, don't get me wrong. But he became that hustler, that gangster because of what he did in a. In an office.

[Amy Robach]

And isn't part of. And this. They get into this in later episodes, but isn't part of the beef between 50 Cent and Diddy? This whole back and forth West Coast, East Coast Tupac, there are all these allegations about any role that he may have played in his death and all of that where they said he was maybe a paper gangster who thought he was a street gangster who then got confused. And that was a little bit of what I saw teased. And you're laughing because you know the story and I don't know anything. I'm like following along, like, you know, just soaking it up because I don't.

[T.J. Holmes]

Know, it is classic hip hop history. And it absolutely was a part of putting hip hop on the map. East coast versus West Coast, Tupac versus Biggie, Suge versus Puffy. This what it was. And I remember Shook at a award show accepting an award. He said, yeah, come over to the west coast if you want to do music. And you don't want your producer all up in the videos like he was taking a direct shot. This is how we do it. We the real gangsters. You in a hot tub drinking champagne, talking about you, this and that, that set it all up. So, yes, he was that guy and that's fine, but he wasn't necessarily chasing street credit. A lot of rappers necessarily did. But that beef, that he was in the center of the biggest explosion of hip hop that we've ever seen.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. And to hear how, you know, all of these parties, all of these freak offs that we heard so much about during the trial, to think that perhaps the inspiration for them came in in part from his own mother.

[T.J. Holmes]

They made that connection.

[Amy Robach]

That was jaw dropping to that connection.

[T.J. Holmes]

Is that fair? Is that right? I don't know, but they certainly did in the documentary. And I'm sure he didn't appreciate that.

[Amy Robach]

I'm sure his mother didn't appreciate that either. They made a point to say they reached out to her and, oh, shocking. She didn't want to participate or react at all to what they were putting out there. But yeah, they went there and they drew that connection. And I hadn't Heard that before.

[T.J. Holmes]

No, but his, his mom has been. I mean she's, she was there every day of the trial.

[Amy Robach]

Every single day.

[T.J. Holmes]

She might be the only one that did not miss a day in his family. Possibly, but she's always been right there next to him. Yeah, there have always been those stories about but she did what she did to raise that child. There's a lot of people struggling and doing what they have to do in all kinds of places. And you, there are folks who will see this story and relate to and go, wow. No excuse, but it helps you understand maybe his mindset a little better.

[Amy Robach]

It certainly did me and I, and I find it to be fascinating. Do you actually think though, like at this point they've already put it out? They already had the threats? Of course, I'm sure they already knew the Diddy's team was going to seek legal action to try. But the idea that they would take it down or that seems far fetched.

[T.J. Holmes]

They have to be ordered to do so. Probably at this point, no threat of a lawsuit is going to do it. They would have to be ordered to do so. So. So yeah. How did they do this? This the director we talked about just a short time ago. Again, she has great credits. So this is not just somebody they plucked off the street. Alexandria Stapleton. But the statement from her, at least how they were able to use this footage, Quote, it came to us where we obtained the footage legally and have the necessary rights. Didn't go into much explanation after that.

[Amy Robach]

Nope. But it seemed like honestly, by not going to explanation, it feels like they feel very confident about where they stand legally.

[T.J. Holmes]

Or they're trying to be careful about getting into more trouble legally by saying as little as possible.

[Amy Robach]

The next line though was very interesting to me. She went on to say, we moved heaven and earth to keep the filmmaker's identity confidential. That's the videographer.

[T.J. Holmes]

Who else is the film? Right. It has to be. So Diddy knows who it is. There was one other guy in the room. They know who it is. Obviously if Diddy sees that footage, he knows it got from that videographer's hand to where and how. Or was all this stuff in Diddy's possession? Did he have this stuff? And then some kind of way somebody stole it and it got out. Either way, Diddy didn't authorize it.

[Amy Robach]

She goes on to say, one thing about Sean Combs is that he's always filming himself. And it's been an obsession throughout the decades. We also reached out to Sean Combs legal team for an interview and comment multiple times, but did not hear back.

[T.J. Holmes]

Man, just wait. He's probably. He'll probably get around to it. I don't understand that either. She kind of made a pivot and started talking about something else. I. I don't know.

[Amy Robach]

She. She kind of trashed him. She was kind of saying his own ego, his own hubris, his own need to document everything about his life is what got us this footage in the first place. So it kind of was like blaming him for the fact that they have have this footage to begin with.

[T.J. Holmes]

How soon before you want to do episode two?

[Amy Robach]

Well, I think as soon as we watch the second episode. If they're. I mean, look, I don't know to your point. I'll be learning things probably every minute. I'll be curious to see what you. If you learn anything beyond what you already have heard or seen.

[T.J. Holmes]

Well, folks, check it out. We were joking at the top kinda that you should probably go ahead and watch it before it comes down. But as of now, that thing is up. There's no indication, no word from Netflix that they're even giving us a thought about not leaving it up on their streaming service. So check it out, folks. We always appreciate you spending some time with us. Former dear Amy Robach, I'm T.J. holmes. We'll talk to y' all real soon.

[Kal Penn]

Hey, audiobook lovers. I'm Cal Penn.

[Ed Helms]

I'm Ed Helms.

[Kal Penn]

Ed and I are inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, IR the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

Each week we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and greatest audiobooks from Audible.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to Hearsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow earsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app today.

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[T.J. Holmes]

So like a posture gadget of some kind?

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